Profile of a Hard-Core Gamer

who's to say? by sweeney37 · 2003-06-12 02:08 · Score: 4, Interesting

How are we to make a distinction between a hardcore gamer, and an addict? It seems to be a pretty fine line.

Mike

(ps, the nytimes link is the google link)

Re: who's to say? by Scholasticus · 2003-06-12 02:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, I think you're quite right. In the 60s he might have been a hippy living in a commune. Now we'll have to wait a few decades to see if he morphs into a minivan driving suburbanite soccer dad who tells long, pointless, nostalgic stories about this decade when he used to spend all his time fragging instead of working. "Ah, the good old days ..."
Re:who's to say? by Surak · 2003-06-12 03:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

"Puritanical"?

Me thinks someone has some resentment for people daring to judge others...

I was merely speaking factually. The U.S. was founded -- in large part -- by Puritans who left England to be free to practice their way of life, which was largely in conflict with the Anglican church.

The values of these Puritans -- which are describe to be "Puritanical" -- had a large impact on the culture of the United States. There were taboos about sex and modesty which are largely nonexistant in most European countries. In Europe it is commonplace to find nudity and even sex on what they refer to as the 'telly'. Here, however, nudity on TV, particularly during certain hours of the day, is considered a violation of FCC rules. This stems from our cultural taboos about sex, which were largely inherited from those early Puritans.

Hard work, on the other hand, is largely revered for the same reason. One main concept of Puritan philosophy is that 'idle hands (or idle mind) are the playground of the Devil.' One was to work all day, and rest only for short periods to avoid being tempted by Satan. This attitude also had a large influence on our culture in the U.S. and is largely responsible for our capitalistic society which reveres hard work, and shuns those who avoid it.

It has nothing to do with resentment of any kind.

--
My journal has hot /. gossip.
Re:who's to say? by mark2003 · 2003-06-12 03:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

The puritans were teetotal.

The reason the people involved in the revolution (that you hear about) drank was because they generally were proper, boozy Brits who just happened to want to pay less tax, not your religious puritan wusses.

I always find it ironic that the puritans left England fleeing religious persecution when the reason they were so disliked by everyone was because they spent their whole time criticising everyone else for not being religious enough. If they had had any power they would have burnt everyone in England as witches - rather like their wonderfully enlightened behaviour in Salem etc. It's rather like the Taleban fleeing the religious persecution of a secular state.
Re:who's to say? by aminorex · 2003-06-12 08:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

That's a very astute comparison. The taliban
were mostly pakistani seminary students who fled
an autocratic military regime (pakistan) to form
a society based on conscience and shared values
in a wilderness (afghanistan). The puritans were
mostly english religious protestants who fled an
autocratic military regime (england) to form a
society based on conscience and shared values
in a wildnerness (new england).

--
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Re:who's to say? by Restil · 2003-06-12 08:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

I found myself consumed in Ultima Online for the first 6 months is was available, played it a minimum of 8 hours a day and for the last few months, I found myself absolutely hating the game, and it most certainly had a negative influence on my life. For all practical purposes, I would consider myself addicted. I would spend all day at work dreaming, thinking, planning, or researching the game so when I finally got home I could play more efficiently, etc. I couldn't wait to get out of there. That game was calling to me. I stayed up very late playing it, I would wake up early to play it. I dropped out of school to play it.

Yet, on a lark, one day I was replying to posts in one of the newsgroups. I can't even remember what the post was about, and I can't find it in the google archives, but I started the reply as a hard core gamer, and 10 minutes later when I was done, I had decided to quit. Went home that night, logged in, gave away all my stuff, shut it down, and never played it again.

However, unlike a dependancy, I never once longed to go back to it. Not the next day, or a week later, or months later. I didn't miss it at all.

I've never tried to quit smoking or quit using drugs, primarily because I never tried them in the first place, so I have no idea how easy something like that would be to quit, but I'm quite sure it's orders of magnitude more difficult. I certainly can't seem to kick my caffiene habit, which is a pretty mild addiction as they go. So it's hard to consider that the game had much control over me. I willingly devoted my life to it, for reasons I can't fully explain. But it served no purpose. Satisfied no need. Nothing stopped me from quitting, and nothing tried to draw me back.

If I had to guess, I would say the draw to these types of games is that they never end. You can't win, you can't lose, you just keep on existing. Almost all games, be they FPS, adventure, etc have a defined point at which you can say the game is over. At some point you can easily choose to shut down the game or start a new one, but you don't feel like you're walking out of the middle of a party when you think it's time to quit.

And I have no doubt that the MMORPGs are designed with just that addictive tendancy in mind. There is no revenue scheme more ideal than a legal form of crack, especially when you know very well that you can market it to kids. As long as you keep it relatively free of cultural taboos, games like GTA will get all the ire of the anti-gaming crowd, and you can slip under the radar.

-Restil

--
Play with my webcams and lights here

That's really sad and pathetic... by FortKnox · 2003-06-12 02:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm not gonna play a video game for weeks now...

Moderation is a good thing.

--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!

Re:^FLAMEBAIT^ by tomstdenis · 2003-06-12 02:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

Actually it was a serious question. I really want to know why gaming is a "skill". When I was 12 I played the piano, I was in swimming lessons, played baseball and was active in scouts.

I'd say playing the piano or knowing how to revive humans or being able to survive [to a limited degree] in the woods is a heck of alot better than being a lvl200 Daemon dude with a +12 Sword.

Tom

--
Someday, I'll have a real sig.

I too am a hardcore gamer by CrazyJim0 · 2003-06-12 02:29 · Score: 1, Interesting

I have a celebrity status, a CS degree, and I'm working on my own MMORPG since no one is hiring revolutionary computer software developers:

http://delvedesigns.com/websites/clancrazy/index 2. html

I think I run the same plight. I live too far from society(on a farm, in a coal mine town, by the economically depressed city of Pittsburgh). I have two mom and pop stores within 8 miles of where I live. There is nothing to do here other that play and program video games, so its much like a religion to me.

--
God spoke to me

Support by darthtuttle · 2003-06-12 02:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

I always wondered why the game creators don't support people like this more often. I don't imagine that they would have to pay him a lot. Him and others obviously help keep people interested in the game, and he'd have more time to devote to it. Give him responsibility within his profession or class and some duties to perform, the goal of which would be to keep people playing. People like him obviously play an important part in the game.

--
Darthtuttle
Thought Architect

Re:Support by 00klaDM0k · 2003-06-12 04:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

They do that in poker rooms, both online and B&M. It's called being a prop or a shill, depending on whether you are bankrolled by the house(shill) or play with your own money(prop). Basically, you are responsible for getting games started and keeping games going and get paid an hourly rate for doing so. The very least Funcom could do is give him a lifetime subscription to AO.
Re:Support by RubberChainsaw · 2003-06-12 06:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

Oooh, good question. Its so rarely that I am qualified to respond to a post on /. I'm a game designer, I've been part of several online projects, currently working on this one. I know its not a huge title and its pretty old, but I hope it lends some credibility to my post.

Firstly there is the problem of employment. I'm sure other posters have mentioned it, but ULtima Online had a program where players would volunteer to guide people and handle some basic customer service. This was a pretty typical program that was in place in other persistant commerical multiplayer games at the time, such as EverQuest or GemStone3. EA was eventually sued by the people who were a part of that program. They claimed they were being treated as employees and should get employee benefits. When this happened, the player volunteer program in my game at the time was curtailed. Nobody wants to have to defend a lawsuit. Lawyers are too damn expensive!
I believe AOL had a similar suit filed agaist them by their volunteers.

Aside from legal issues, its very risky to give players any enhanced power or responsibility within the game world. MMOG Players are often not very nice people. These games bring out the worst in people. I know, I see the support emails about friends stealing items, passwords, etc. I read the chatlogs filled with hateful, vicious comments. Upset or angry players will write the most obscene emails they can, saying how much they hate the game and they'll never play it again, only to turn around a few days later and plead to get their account and characters back.

In short, players are often very unpredictable. Even the most seemingly well-mannered people will have their moments (we all do, its human nature). They could disagree with a new item or skill and feel insulted that they "weren't listened to", "being ignored", etc. Or worse, there could be outside issues affecting the players life, and they have a breakdown within the game. When things like this happen it will hurt business, give a bad image of the game, and scare away new players (which are the most important ones). EverQuest might not have a problem absorbing it, being that they have close to half a million accounts. But as the number of accounts decreases, these outbursts have a more potent effect.

Then compare the problems to the potential benefits, which are reletively small. Some active characters to enhance the roleplaying atmosphere of a roleplaying game are certainly good things to have.. but data from my games has shown that the impact of feature characters isn't signifigant. Players mostly want new items, new things to play with, and new areas (in that order). And as the population of a game scales up, so must the number of active feature characters.. adding more risk and potential problems. As well as organizational problems. Each of these players will have their own ideas on how the game world should develop. It takes some pretty tight reigns and a watchful eye to make sure that they aren't taking things in a direction you don't want to go. That monitoring takes resources which most teams just don't have. Maintaining an online games takes alot of time.. its much worse than any "normal business" project I was a part of. But its fun, most of the time.

I understand the idea. Its an idea that everyone has. In fact it was one of the first things I suggested when I was hired as a designer for my first online game, and I was given this speech then (minus the lawsuit stuff, of course).

In the end, it would be really nice to have the extra hands helping with the game. The risks and resources required do not outweigh the disadvantages.

One thing to note, though, is that the mmog Shadowbane has done something along the lines of what was suggested. They have hired a team to play Feature Characters on their servers. Since they are hired employees

--
I welcome our new 99% overlords.

Re:A lvl 200 character... by kin_korn_karn · 2003-06-12 02:31 · Score: 1, Interesting

Then we have the perfect solution: make learning more entertaining and self-paced. As long as education is an authority game and not a self-directed one nobody will choose learning over entertainment.

That's just plain dumb. by jonfromspace · 2003-06-12 02:37 · Score: 1, Interesting

That's like saying the only diference between Pot and crack cocain is how fucked up it gets you.

Addiction to gaming AND telivision are real. You really belive that a person can not become addicted to T.V.? C'mon... a stimulus is a stimulus.

That being said, I bet it is a lot easier to go cold turkey with the T.V. than the smack.

But, I digress...

--
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads

not all that hord core... by Raleel · 2003-06-12 02:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

only 7 hours a day? Geez, when i was mudding in school, I was doing it 16 hours a day.

My brother in law currently plays DAoC 13 hours a day, and has for the last month ;)

oh, wait, he has a wife..and a job...and she's still married to him? Mine breaks out divorce papers after hour 4...

--
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --

Real Life by XenoDonkey · 2003-06-12 02:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

Sure, it could be said that this world is uncaring and populated with less than stellar personalities. I might even agree with that to a certain degree, which is why it is understandable that a person would want to escape it as often as possible. In the end, however, such escapism is self-defeating. Our beloved Hardcore Gamer may think that the more he gets to know humanity the more he is disgusted with it, but that's because it's what he chooses to see.

Life itself has no inherrent traits, it has neither good nor bad, lor or hate. It has nothing. Everything that has value in our lives is so valued because we give it value; the same is true with what we choose to see in humanity.

Ultimately, what we choose to accept of the world determines how we feel about it. The holocaust was bad, really bad; but that doesn't make it the defining trait of humanity. After all, someone made that whole affair end...

I find it sickening that someone can so easily say they hate the world, then try and create a new one that offers no fulfillment. That virtual world is not permanent, it does not endure, but the real world is always going on, even when you turn your back on it.

--
"Tolerance is a form of mutual annoyance."

Do we want to be "hard core gamers"? by Gax · 2003-06-12 03:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

I have to ask the question, how many people want to be hardcore gamers? It appears that magazines such as EDGE (UK) are always raving at hard-core gamers as if they were the elite of gaming style. Although games should be recognised as an art form, I find the term to be alienating for people who don't have the time or resources to choose the latest hits.

Move. by eggstasy · 2003-06-12 03:11 · Score: 2, Interesting

You know, the rest of the world, unlike America, has no serious high-tech unemployment problems... I'm not out of college yet and I make a fair bit of money. Not an awful lot, but enough to pay for college and books, with some left after that for vacations and movies or gifts for my girl.
I don't think I would have any problem getting a steady job if I graduated tomorrow - in fact, most colleges around here PROVIDE you with jobs (internships) after you graduate, and everyone ends up staying at their place of internship as a permanent employee.
Of course it would be kinda hard to start over in a new country when you're that deeply in debt. I wish you luck.

You can't move with no money and debt by CrazyJim0 · 2003-06-12 03:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

I have no money, and I have debt. I have enough gas in my car to drive 20 miles.

My college isn't doing shit for me, I'm asking for help, but no one wants to talk to me.

It sucks too because I'm an awesome computer application programmer, and I have designed many things other people developed and became successful with.

--
God spoke to me

trapped???? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-12 03:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen"

Can I point out that Madison is a city of over 200,000 and is less than an hour away from Milwaukee, less than 3 hours from Chicago, and less than 5 hours from Minneapolis. Sheesh...does this idiot own a car???

Re:Telling quote from the article by kin_korn_karn · 2003-06-12 03:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

I do speak from personal experience. I grew up on a farm on top of a hill in eastern Kentucky. All the people around me were redneck assholes, the only knowledge you're allowed to possess there without being beaten is how to rebuild an engine and how to get your sister to hold still (for the trolls: no, I didn't bang my sister, and I didn't try to). The closest town had 1200 people. The closest semi-major city was Columbus OH.

I couldn't get a connection to an ISP higher than 14.4 due to the shitty phone lines so I didn't do much real-time online gaming, and it was really before the time that MMORPGs came online. Right when I moved was when Evercrack showed up. I did a lot of IRC when the net came to the area, and before that I did a lot of BBSing and ran a BBS.

I got out, got a life (sort of, I'm still a programmer), I'm getting married in the fall, and everything is generally getting better. However, I look back on when I was a shut-in gamer and I don't regret that time because it was all I had then. Gaming was an escape from that miserable shithole, and most of the other people I knew were drunk or stoned or on harder shit every night to dull the misery. Gaming is bad for socialization but it doesn't directly kill you or get you a criminal record, and through online gaming and interaction I learned that I had options other than rotting on that hill like the other people around me.

As long as you know when to stop, it's not a bad thing.

No one's ever told me where to look for a job by CrazyJim0 · 2003-06-12 03:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

I've sent out 1000 resumes to any "programmer" position I see on the net, but I have never gotten an interview.

I don't have ANY idea how to look for a job, and I come from a poor family who's never had a professional career past manual labor.

I'm good at accomplishing things, but I'm not good at searching around.

Check down for my example code if you're still a disbeliever.

--
God spoke to me

Hey... by Perianwyr+Stormcrow · 2003-06-12 03:34 · Score: 2, Interesting

I once successfully hit on a girl by talking about 8-bit Nintendo games and Autechre.

--

What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey

Re:A lvl 200 character... by kin_korn_karn · 2003-06-12 03:46 · Score: 3, Interesting

So-called "educators" are the ones that make education into an authority game. There are a lot of professors out there that just don't give a shit, or they got into teaching because they had no power in other areas of their life (to that end I'm thinking of high school teachers)

Personally, I love to learn. I also understand the need to learn things that I may not enjoy inherently or be able to immediately apply. What I don't like is being told how to learn, and being expected to learn under anyone else's style but my own. Many teachers feel the need to force their methods of learning down your throat.

I also don't like arbitrary limits on my personal freedom. I had professors in college (well, for one class before I ran to admissions and changed) that would flunk you for taking bathroom breaks. I'm an adult and a taxpayer and when I was in college I paid tuition - I'll go to the bathroom whenever the hell I want. It's to my benefit to go to class, so there's no need to force me to attend. Attempting to is nothing more than satisfying your own weaknesses.

Big Stupid by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-12 03:48 · Score: 1, Interesting

At USC we have a similar guy. We call him Big Stupid. You see, this guy is sorta the same to some degree, overall worse.

I first really was around Big Stupid in a Calc II discussion. This guy would show up late, and plop him 340lb ass down in the middle of the discussion section. Whatâ(TM)s worse is that Big Stupid could be smelled from wherever he sat. Even if he was at opposite corners of the room, he still would be too close. One day in this section, Big Stupid arrived with his usual disruption. But that day was special, he was sick. He had the worst cough I have ever seen, I bet this is where Severe Acute Repertory Syndrome originated. About every 10 seconds he would erupt with the hoarsest and loudest sounding cough I have ever heard. Our very nice Russian TA asked him if he would like to be excused for some water. He declined her offer. This continued all class, and I swear I could feel the germs invading my lungs every time I breathed in.

A year later I got lucky and had an OS lecture with Big Stupid. As usual, he would arrive late, but this time with 2 bags of Carlâ(TM)s Jr.â(TM)s double western combos every class. TWO combo meals! Big Stupid would sit in the third to last row of the lecture, and gobble this food up, making all sorts of noise. After Big Stupid had his fill, he would slouch back in his chair and look like he was paying attention. A few minutes later, he would throw his legs over the chair in front of him. Just after he huffs and sniffles a bit, you would begin to hear snoring coming from the back of the room. One time as the professor was asking a question, Big Stupid snored really loud, at least someone had a sense of humor with this guy and replied âoethat is not an answer.â (Iâ(TM)ll save the sleeping beauty story for another day)

Well, that was a year ago I think, and I hadnâ(TM)t seen Big Stupid around in a while. Maybe he had disappeared or been forced to repeat a few classes. Well, lucky me again when who should I find behind me in the cafeteria line? Big Stupid! I didnâ(TM)t look at him until I was at my table and noticed that he, in his greasy shirt, and leather shoes with no socks, sat down not far from where I was. Out of curiosity I looked at his plate to find a mountain of grilled cheese sandwiches (like 13 or so) on one plate, right next to another mountain of deep fried fish sticks on the other. No wonder this guy was always greasy, 2 combo meals for lunch, and 3 more pounds of grease for dinner. Thatâ(TM)s where he gets so greasy from, it oozes out through his head and body! My friends thought that we might solve the energy crisis by attaching oil rigs to him, and selling the liquid gold!

Well, I havenâ(TM)t seen Big Stupid in a while. I suppose he is still working towards his CS degree, just a few years back. He seemed like a nice guy, but its these weirdos who make the phrase âoeyeah, Iâ(TM)m a computer science majorâ a huge turn off to chicks!

So, my point is, your roommate wasnâ(TM)t the only one to suffer, I feel real bad for Big Stupidâ(TM)s former and present roommates.

Yeah... by nanojath · 2003-06-12 04:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

"The more you deal with people, the more you hate people," he said. "It just feels that everybody is so asleep in this world."

Yeah, I have a tough time taking this kind of sentiment from a person spending nearly half their waking life immersed in an artificial personality in an artificial world (I find the idea that because you can act out whatever the hell impulse you want in an online environment, it is somehow more "real" than the hard-copy world, stupid and offensive).

Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen... Madison WI may not be Las Vegas but it is one of the 100 largest cities in the USA, and although I haven't lived there myself it seems like a pretty good place as far as mid-sized cities go. A quick search of past accolades netted, among others:

Ranked #1 of Small-size Cities for Creativity by The Washington Monthly, #2 among "America's Best Places to Live and Work" by Employment Review Magazine, UW-Madison Ranked 35th in the World of Top Executive Eduation Providers by the London-based Financial Times, The Most Wired City in the Country by The Media Audit and International Demographics, One of Top Five Cities for Entrepreneurial Business Growth by the National Commission on Entrepreneurship, One of America's Most Environmentally Friendly Cities by ENN.com, #3 City for Business Owners by Business Development Outlook Magazine, Best City For Quality of Life by Business Development Outlook Magazine, Top 10 Cities to Have It All by A & E Network, September, 1999, #1 Best Places to Live in America, Money magazine, 10 Most Livable Places in America The Advocate, #5 America's 10 Most Enlightened Towns, Utne Reader, #3 Safest of Nation's 100 Largest Cities Morgan Quinto Press, Best Mid-Sized City Travel Getaway Midwest Living magazine

Sounds like opportunity exists there.

Though articulate and clearly intelligent, he skipped college because he believed that school stifled creativity.

And pardon me for being an elitist, but that's a thin excuse for not getting the credentials and connections, and the attendent opportunities, that go along with getting an advanced education. The only thing that can stifle a person's creativity is that person. There are well-worn paths of least resistance in all walks of life.

I think a lot of people could get caught up in something like this, particularly at at time when the track they've chosen suddenly veers south. But at the same time, this sounds like a profile of a person who likes shortcuts and is too quick to blame his environment for what are fundamentally personal problems. Online world's are what they are because they lack or simplify the real consequences, and many of the real difficulties and complexities, of the physical world. "Success" in that context is a third-class substitute for seeking the prosperity, relationships and recognition you need in the real world.

--

It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

Re:Loser by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-12 04:20 · Score: 1, Interesting

Oho ya.. boy stupid me... you a super guy and he's just a slab of meat connected to a computer.

God there is no possibility he was shy.

Oho and trust me he knew how you felt about him even if you didn't call him 'loser' to his face.

thedeacon's response on AO forums... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-12 04:42 · Score: 5, Interesting

Let me tell you something. The article about me written by Seth Schiesel, AKA Amis (his ingame name) is such a roving pack of lies slandering the person I really am in real life that I'm flat out disgusted by the whole thing.

right now I'm too stunned and upset at the amount of lies, miscontext, misquotes and outright slander posted on the article to even log in.

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander, as many of the things put in that article about my real life (and even ingame) are so horribly untrue or twisted and the truth stretched to paint me in a much much different light than the person I really am.

He paints me as a shy, akward, socially inept reclusive nerd which is such a contrast to the person I really am. I make racy jokes, but he paints me as a virtual rapist. I'm broke in RL, but he paints me as a suicidal, emotionally unstable man that lives in the slums (I live in a good neighborhood) and can't afford to buy food. This article is absolutely ruinous to myself, my business, my future. It's the lowest form of slander imaginable.

Even the pictures used were horrible. The first is dark and brooding and in the second picture I was about to bust out laughing, which also looks a hell of alot like crying and is just a flat out BAD pic.

Please keep any jokes off this thread as I feel serious about this. I can see some pretty horrid real life repercussions as a result of this article.

So much of what I said to him in the four days that he was here was taken FAR out of context and quotes that I had supposedly said were either entirely made up or the wording was changed to change the focus of what I was saying.

Sound familiar? Well about a month ago, another NY Times reporter by the name of Jayson Blair did the exact same thing. I just never had any idea something like this would happen to me. He told me that he was doing a general article about the community of AO through my eyes. Instead, a pack of lies gets slammed on the world's largest newspaper about me. The entire focus of the article was misrepresented.

The writer, Seth Schiesel is a reporter for the NY Times and his ingame character is named "Amis", a high level Omni MP. The article was so vicious and untrue at some points that it seems to have been written with malice in mind.

I'm so humiliated at some of the things said in that article. it shocks and amazes me how someone can so callously and deliberately say such untruths. I'm painted as a socially inept reject that never leaves his home, which is the opposite of who I really am.

It's one thing to flame someone ingame, but this goes way beyond that and extends into my personal life.....worst of all, 80% of what he says is an outright lie. The other 20% is an exaggeration or was taken out of context.

While it may not seem bad to many of you, if you knew me in real life, you'd know why I was so upset right now.

thanks alot Amis (his ingame name). Never figured to be stabbed in back like this.

__________________
Thedeacon, lvl 200 MP
Thedeacon1 lvl140ish enforcer
Xcelsius lvl 167 MA

These are my only characters atm .

Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

Corinthians: "Thedeacon = 1900+ posts, 98% of them pure troll goodness."

Please do not send me random tells asking me to fly out and buff you. It's disruptive and inconsiderate to what I'm doing. I am not a walking, talking buff terminal and really do have better things to do than fly out to buff you or wait for you to fly to me. if you see me, I'll happily buff you. if you contact me because you don't feel like finding an mp in your zone, I'll /ignore you. I also don't give away money, I give knowledge, which in the end is far mor valuable. BUT I'M STILL A NICE GUY. REALLY I AM

VOTE THEDEACON FOR CLAN PRESIDENT!! OMG!

SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR FIXING THE META-PHYSICISTS' PLIGHT! JOIN US FOR 'BLACK SUNDAY'

Re:How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day? by Naikrovek · 2003-06-12 05:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

heh.

my brother is an everquest addict. in 7 hours of any day of the week, he completes about 1/2 of his everquest time for that day.

he complains about having no income, yet spends $100/week on drugs, $50/week on cigarettes, and about $20/week on alcohol. There is no income stream to support this, either.

It is no wonder this guy profiled has no money. he doesn't work! not hard enough, anyway. owning your own business is not a 9-5 job, and you'll fail if you make it a 9-5 job. buying this game has only worsened his business, and that's why he has no money.

my brother was depressed before he started playing everquest. He has succeeded in escaping his problems in the real world (they haven't forgotten about him though) and now finds solace in an unreal world.

massive online games can be dangerous to people that are wanting to escape the toil of the decisions they've made.

Re:A lvl 200 character... by Durindana · 2003-06-12 05:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'd like to make the case that time spent on any particular habit, pursuit, hobby - or obsession, as seems the case for Stenlund - is not necessarily equally worthwhile simply out of its value to you personally.

For example, I would place playing Anarchy Online, or any other MMORPG, well below, say, reading classically-accepted literature like Faulkner, Thomas (not Tom) Wolfe or Cormac McCarthy. Ditto for the rest of the "Great Books" canon. Why?

Well, I have this (perhaps naive) idea that true art carries its own rewards, and people who produce amazingly creative works aren't in it for material reward. That's one reason so many artists die unappreciated (e.g. van Gogh, Nietzsche, Emily Dickinson) only to become established posthumously.

Can the same be said for MMORPGs, for television? Absolutely not. Generally the products of popular culture are made to turn a profit for someone or some business - not to stimulate, to excite, to inspire, to last, as is the case with transcendent art.

Same goes, to a potentially lesser extent, for cinema and popular music. And notice it's rarely the blockbuster or the smash hit that achieves valuable cultural immortality. Where are the Beatles and the Velvet Underground and the Antonionis and the Kurosawas of today?

It's still possible, it seems, for great directors to make great movies... but how often are they paying for it themselves? Why do actors join Woody Allen films for no money?

And perhaps there are musicians who could change the world - but they probably wouldn't get a record deal. Look at the trouble Wilco had just publishing Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. Radiohead is the only band I can think of offhand right now that still seems to want to make art after reaching popular acclaim.

Our ministers of culture are not interested in art. They want hits.

To speak in very general terms (of course, there are exceptions), popular cultural products are generally crap. Which is more beneficial spiritually, watching Real World or reading Jude the Obscure? The denigration of pop culture is especially pervasive because it's designed to mesmerize, to trap and distract you. It's no accident some parents treat the TV as a babysitter, and some kids treat it as their best friend - that's the aim of its cultural products and their advertisers.

Producing one's own art can, of course, confer similar to or greater benefits than absorbing someone else's. And I'm not suggesting that we need to rip the cable TV out and spend time exclusively with dead trees. But McLuhan was right to say that the "electric culture" is a paradigm shift from all that has come before in terms of attention, of culture, of intelligence, of moral and spiritual value.

And I strongly question the relativist outlook that "you can learn from just about any activity, even watching TV." Perhaps if you're watching PBS exclusively, and even then you'd likely be better off doing something else most of the time.

Re:from the article by Anonymous Coward · 2003-06-12 10:05 · Score: 1, Interesting

you must have been one of the n00bs begging him for "credz plz" then. Thedeacon is an excellent person and this NY Times article is totally bogus and downright slanderous to him. he has always been a cheerful and pleasant person to talk to. Thedeacon has also done more, and contributed more than any guild leader in the game. period. he is an extremley well respected person in the AO community for his support of people and for his humor. which, that "Protest March" aka. Black Sunday was last sunday (the 8th of this month) and was a huge success, inpart because he was the one who organized it. everyone holds him in such high regard no one else could pull this off. and, btw. i may not be on rk1 (rk2 myself). but i've talked to him on many instances on rk1 and via forums. never once was he rude or "a dick".

Response from AO Boards and details of article by An+Tse · 2003-06-12 10:24 · Score: 2, Interesting

The forums at the AO site contain quite a bit regarding this article. Interestingly enough, a lot of the "he is a loser" comments made here at /. are refuted by thedeacon in his forum postings. One of which can be viewed here: Link

About 2/3 of the way down the page you will find the first of the rebuttals, and on the second page of the post you will find addtional information.

FYI, I don't play AO but have played other MMORPGs

Judging people...Why? by Linoleum · 2003-06-12 23:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

So... who are you guys to judge Thedeacon? Do you know the guy? Not that it matters, since what one does with his own time should be solely up to him, and should be respected, like any choice one might make. This seems like to elementary me, but I suppose most people haven't thought that far... I play AO, and as an Officer in Storm, I know Thedeacon pretty well, although only on a virtual level. However this is enough to tell that Thedeacon is not the geek he is represented as in that so-called Article, which quite frankly is an insult to jorunalism. Sure he plays 7 hours a day sometimes, so what? He is no exception, and the professional situation in which he is right now has nothing to do with his hobby. If it had, all players of MMORPGs would be outcasts with no lives, which is far from being true, since many of us are successfull in their jobs/studies and social lives. What amazes me the most is that you people seem to blindly swallow whatever information the press presents you, which shows a big lack of judgement. After all the media are just another form of propaganda, and they need a scapegoat which has evolved over time, from violent movies, to videogames, now focusing mostly on online games. Does every person that watches a violent movie turn into a mass murdered? No, the same thing goes for online gaming, and becoming a "social reject". It happens, but those people are the vastest of minorities, and lack the strenght of character to avoid this, which would probably have led them the same way, if they hadn't played a game like AO. All I see here are a bunch of people judging others for the sole purpose of feeling better about themselves, a more and more common action in our world of the so-called politically correct. If people could just put aside there pride for a few minutes, and admit that we are all freaks in one way or another, this kind of bullshit could be avoided, but I guess thats not an easy thing to do in a world which pushes us to "perfection" which is an illusion anyway. The only real thing to discuss about this article is the fact that the so called journalist, wrote information he never should have (regarding Thedeacon's reallife) and made him look bad, by distorting and exagerating the truth, to say the least, which could have repercussions on Thedeacon's professional life. If you can't understand Thedeacon's legitimate anger, and think it is ok that a newspaper writes bullshit, in order to sell more, at the cost of a "random joe" like The deacon, then I wish the same thing will happen to you one day. Greetz, Lino.

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