Slashdot Mirror
Working with ADHD?
Famanoran asks: "I've recently been diagnosed ADHD ? and am now taking Ritalin. I've found that it helps me rather significantly, but I'm keen to try other things that may help. My question is to the ADHD'ers on slashdot: How have you coped with ADHD, and how have you found it affect your work performance? Do you object to having ADHD? Have you tried natural alternatives such as DPA/EPA (Omega3), 5-HTP (natural precursor to serotonin), and what were your results? Also - How do you find it working in groups of people, either as the only ADHD'er there, or in a group of ADHD'ers? Do you think that your ADHD contributes to your abilities technically, or is it a hinderance?" Previously, Ask Slashdot dealt with ADHD in children, now what suggestion do you have for the grown-ups, with the additional burden of a career, who find themselves in the same situation?
If you're ADHD, Slashdot is actually not all that helpful. after all, you can constantly refresh, find new comments to read, write comments, and ever hour or so there's a new story. first step if you're coping with ADHD? quit slashing.
You are most certainly incorrect, my friend. ADHD is a neurological disorder and those tasks do not require true concentration -- just a form of "zoning out." They are non-chemical stimulants, exactly what caffeine does chemically. In fact, Ritalin is very close to cocaine in chemical composition -- and is a stimulant, just like your proposed caffeine. So, I'm no doctor, but I certainly can offer something along the way of non-useless pseudo-advice.
In the 70's there were experiements done that proved that Caffeine helps people with AD(H)D concentrate.. Having ADHD myself, I find that medication does not help me get my work done. I just force myself to sit down and get the stuff out of the way.
I really have no idea what I am talking about.
ADHD is a often bad diagnosis. It's like saying "My kid is too kid-like." I'll explain...
I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child because I could not pay attention in class. The real issue was I had/have a hearing disorder that makes it very difficult for me to zero in on specific sounds and tune others out.
This bogus diagnosis led to improper treatment. Sure, the drugs helped, but the underlying problem was not addressed, and I did not reach my full potential.
Do not trust western medicine like it's never wrong.
Compared to war, all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance. God, how I love it. - Gen. George Patton
I had ADHD for my whole life. It was diagnosed when I was 14 (wee bit late I'd say). I was on Ritalin for about 6 months and decided I didn't need it. I have learned to cope with it and use it to my advantage (Hyperfocusing + Coding = Happy Employeers). Learn to use it, not control it.
...any site claiming to have 'information' on something when that site is specifically in place to try and scare people away from something (like, say, psychiatry).
Reliable info on psychiatric medications is unlikely to come from a group referring to itself as the Antipsychiatry Coalition. That is what is referred to as 'bias'.
I thought that after a certain age, Ritalin had the same effects as methamphetamine since that's what it is, basically. There's no damn way I would EVER feed myself pills to conform to someone else's idea of how I should act. Not Ritalin, not Prozac, none of this bullshit whose sole purpose is to make me act like a fucking robot. I'm a hyperactive little bastard. If I'm not doing something I like, then I get very agitated and don't want to do it. This is THE WAY THAT PEOPLE FUNCTION. This is not a disorder, this is simply acting the way you want to. Excuse me going off like this in what should be a fairly serious topic. There are people that actually do have disorders that prevent them from concentrating, etc, but at what point does the exception become the norm? Besides, who's worse off? Those that jump up and go running around the office shooting paperclips at each other because it seemed like fun, or those that never have done that and never will because the medications they're on supresses any urge to do anything ever.
:D
I'll get off the soapbox now.
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
Hmm, well. As someone who's also been diagnosed with ADHD, I have found that the most effective treatment is just to get outside in the fresh air and get a bit of excersize every day. Of course, in our current culture of instant gratification and having both parents working, we have come to a point where parents aren't willing to take the time to find a better alternative than to drug their child. Personally it sickens me. I knew this one family that put their 5 y.o. child on Ritalin. I ask you, what 5y.o. isn't hyperactive? And what kind of parent drugs their 5 y.o. kid for being a bit rambuncious?
I myself only took Ritalin a few times, and I hated the way it affected me. As such, I don't take perscription drugs (not that I don't do other drugs, but that's another topic). No, for me the simplest thing to do was go outside and and run a few laps.
Okay, now for the history of ADHD. Recent studies beleive that ADHD was a genetic defect that prooved useful for attracting mates, as the higher levels of activity exhibited by the ADHD addled individual was a sign of better health and strength.
So, if the ADHD is getting in your way, then you should seek treatment. But a lot of people take Ritalin when it isn't neccesary. And watch out for dependencies. I knew a kid who no longer needed it, but he continued to take it because he claimed he could function without it. Ritalin is a mind altering drug, and people today don't give it enough respect.
Anyway, how many posts are we gonna get reffering to Focusyns from the Simpsons?
YOU SUCK BALLS!
Also ADHD is about a problem in regulation of attention. The ability to stop paying attention to something is just as hard for people with ADHD as paying attention.
Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.
Moderators, please refrain from spending all your points modding up every easy joke about ADHD to +5, Funny. Not only are you supporting misinformed stereotypes, you're also ignoring posts that might actually have some meaning.
I'd also ask you to overlook lengthy posts that ask "Do you really have ADHD or do you just play too many videogames?" People, lets assume, if only for this discussion, that the person asking does, in fact, have a real psychological problem, and really is helped by medication, and isn't lazy, or possessed by demons, or resistant to alien mind control, or any of the other oddball opinions that always come up.
I'm going to reply to this because I don't have ADHD, rather I have a related disorder known as social anxiety, and I took interest to your mention of serotonin.
Serotonin is a chemical that is known to calm, and SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) prevents the brain from storing serotonin (thus keeping it in circulation). I'm not sure about the chemical specifics of ritalin, but I suspect it relates to many of the other newfangled medications that are on the market. I use an SSRI to calm myself, to prevent anxiety. You may use it to calm yourself to prevent overactivity.
All psychological disorders are related, though each has the same symptoms, they have each to varying degrees. My advice to you would be to seek a second opinion, even if you are absolutely certain that this second opinion will yield the same result.
ADHD is overdiagnosed in children, but an adult is a different matter. I would advise you to continue the medication that works, and look towards alternative solutions while you're taking the medication. There is no shame in taking a pill every day, and therapeutic solutions will only strengthen your resolve to conquer your problem--even if you're forced to take a pill for the rest of your life.
Do you object to having ADHD
I object to having social anxiety as much as I object to having a thorn in my side. It's an obstacle to be overcome, and even if it can't be eliminated completely, it can be managed.
How do you find it working in groups of people, either as the only ADHD'er there, or in a group of ADHD'ers?
This is somewhat irrelevant to your problem. ADHD should affect you in virtually every aspect of life, regardless whether it's with a group of people or on your own. The key is to understand how your mind works, and to become so educated with respect to your subconscious thoughts that you can control them with exercises and manage them as they come. A relatively new therapeutic study deals with cognitive thinking, in that you can catch thoughts [that cause feelings] as they occur, and eventually eliminate them. These thoughts might cause you to become hyperactive (hence the 'H' in ADHD), and you really have to focus on your internal thoughts more than the results on the environment around you.
I doubt that this advice will help you directly, but I admire your resolve in openly announcing your mental difficulties. Watching TV, I'm sure you'll notice more and more commercials regarding mental illness and the fact that it isn't extraordinary, rather it's a common problem that affects everyone, from every walk of life. My final suggestion would be to seek therapy. There's no shame in talking to someone about this, as much as there's any shame in taking medication for it. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
If Ritalin improves the quality of your life, does it matter if ADHD is the correct diagnosis? And if Ritalin doesn't help you, why would you keep taking it, even if you do have ADHD? It doesn't work for everyone, and you still may have ADHD if it doesn't work for you.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
Someone admits on Slashdot having a medical disorder that has had difficulty finding acceptance in society and all of a sudden dozens of insensitive jokes pop up on slashdot? And they're moderated up too? Would you guys laugh if Richard Stallman had scizophrenia? What about things like alcoholism or depression? Personality disorders aren't funny. They are difficult for the people who have them and making jokes about them is rude and insensitive. I am apalled by the Slashdot community's response to this.
While I was in elementary school, I knew someone that was on Ritalin for "hyperactivity." He was boring, didn't really seem interested in being friends with anyone, etc. Over the summer, his parents took him off of the medication (since he didn't have to concentrate on school), and we became good friends. Fortunately, he didn't go back on it (possibly because of this).
I have always had difficulty concentrating, and will frequently "zone out" even when listening to/watching/reading/etc. things that I find very interesting. My brain just likes to wander off in a different direction. I was prescribed some sort of medication in 8th grade, but it just made me sleepy, which certainly didn't help me pay attention, so I stopped. It doesn't stop me from understanding *nix [but I can't play guitar for hours on end].
Then again, you have to look at the individual situation. I have another friend who really does seem to need at least a little medication. Every time he goes off of it, his life gets derailed in some way. He eventually goes back on it, gets another job, starts doing pretty well, maybe tries college again, and then...
Basically, I recommend that you "correct" as little as possible. If it's not possible for you to function in society, you need help in some way, whether it be prescription medicine or something more natural. If you're just "eccentric", "hyper", etc., then I don't see that as bad. Maybe medication would let me sit and do something for hours, but I don't think the result would be as interesting.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Can we just ASSUME, for once, that someone diagnosed with a psychological disorder actually has a psychological disorder?
I've been diagnosed as bipolar, and I am sick to fucking death of having people tell me that I don't have a problem, and that I've just been mislead by the drug industry. I'm sick of people telling me that I should stop taking my medication, because I don't need it, when in fact, I go off my goddamn rocker without it, and that I like taking it.
I know that ADHD has been notoriously overdiagnosed, but the asker isn't asking anyone to tell him whether or not he has it. He wants to know how others like him deal with the same kinds of problems.
First of all, get off ritalin. It can cause permanent neurological problems, and is very bad for your health. Also, as far as I know, ADHD (and all the others) are usually nutrition disorders, and can be easily cured by changing the person's diet, and getting proper levels of sleep, etc.
So GET OFF THE RITALIN - I mean it
see this site (i quickly found a random one)
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
Weed
(seriously, works for me)
This was the problem I had, the whole "in my major" thing. I was acing the tech stuff (CompSci, Chem, Math) but couldn't keep my eyes open for anything remotely liberal-arts-ish. My advice is realize you HAVE TO PASS THIS STUFF to keep your ride and get your sheep-skin, so just hunker down and do it. Easy to say.
I've found that latley I've starte to appriciate the crap they wanted to jam down my throat. I never read a single word of Mark Twain when I was 18yr old, but now I have his complete works on my Palm and read it whenever I have a spare moment, and really really enjoy it! _Conneticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court_ is just amazing. I was %100 sci-fi pre work-force, but now I really love the classic-lit stuff. Maybe we need to try to recognize this in our students and nurture it more appropriatly.
Oh! A butterfly!
M@
Krispy Cream is people
While it seems to work well for those who are truly strong ADHD sufferers, nowadays doctors have a strong tendency towards quickly diagnosing people/children and prescribing various medications. Ritalin is a favorite, and not always the best choice.
In my younger days, I had a slight tendency towards distraction. I wasn't bouncing off the walls, nor did it actually distract me from work, but I was prescribed ritalin. Rather than improving my condition, ritalin sapped my energy and left my a basketcase through about half a year of classes.
Eventually I quit the pill, but remember as a warning that anything that messes with your body chemistry should not be taken lightly, and measure side-effects against intended effects...
For an honest "ask slashdot" question from someone with ADHD, can the mods please not mod up post such as this as "funny", because they're not and they interfere with the purpose of the question. Making fun of the subject in this manner is a tired joke anyway.
Try also to not let this turn into a debate as to the acceptedness of ADHD as a diagnosis. For many of us, this is a subject that is close to heart and quite frankly, many are tired of the obvious jokes and unacceptance. ADHD is real, it's here, so please, even if you don't have it, please respect it for what it is.
As for me, I did encounter a bit of uncertianty when I informed my boss about my own ADHD. Many do not know anything about it so understanding is a constant struggle.
As for meds, I have found Aderall XR to be quite effective, but like many ADD drugs, its amphetamine status makes it a pain because of the triplicate forms and many doctors can be apprehensive about prescribing it.
There is a new drug released this year who's name escapes me, but it's a non-amphetamine drug that is much easier to deal with. Problems I have read, however, are some rare cases of folks finding they get odd violent tendencies or it can only make their ADHD symptoms worse. Just goes to show how much we truly understand this disease.
For herbal remedies, I have yet to see a well controlled series of scientific studies of any treatment that makes as significant a difference as the more generally accepted medications.
It's a fact of ADHD, If you have it, you take mphetamines, aka speed. Many respond quite well to it, so once you get over the fact that you're taking a "controlled substance", you can move on with your life and actually thrive quite well.
ADHD has become an increasingly popular diagnosis, especially since it's very difficult to prove incorrect. ADHD is a relatively rare disorder, and has grown in the field to encompass both hyperativity disorder and ADD.
I was nearly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD when I was in 8th grade. The people didn't quite realize that I was bored. I could've taught my 8th grade English class, but I'm sure that if I were taken to a psychologist that I would be diagnosed with ADHD. I was near puberty. I was mad at the world. I didn't fit in because I had a rather poor self image.
Maybe you do have ADHD. I still find that I have trouble sitting still for more than an hour. I know that this isn't on the scale of ADHD, where they can't focus for more than 3 or 4 minutes. I do have thousands of things running through my mind, but I don't let myself get too distracted.
As the guy on everything2 hypothesized, I believe that people are evolving. The ones who have genius intelligence, but can't quite handle it are the ones who end up with ADHD. The ones that can handle it end up being true genius (like Einstein style.)
I have an easy time getting bored. I have an easy time getting energetic and jumping around like a hooligan. I might have good brain power, but I can only half-way handle it. Maybe God got distracted with something while writing "ADHD" into my head, therefore only giving me a semi-dose.
Anyway, the way I handle my self-induced stress is by working out. I lift weights and do cadio. I find that if my body is tired, I have an easier time getting to sleep. I have an easier time sitting still and writing my programs.
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
More than one in eight cases of ADD is misdiagnosed. Treatment with amphetamines can be very positive. I've tried Ritilin and Dexamphetamine. Of the two I find that Dexamphetamine is much more helpfull. Dexamphetamine has a longer checmical half life, and tends to last better. I take lower doses, and it lasts me through the day without a mid afternoon crash, like I used to get with Ritilin. Though it does seem that Ritilin is the treatment of choice, amongst doctors in the US. I think this is mainly a marketing push. There are many other methods of coping with my condition. I find that a combinatin of stratagys works well. Some of the things I try, which work well for me are: Diet: When I eat right, I notice a big increaces in my ability to concentrate. Foods with preservitives are not so good for me. Some people I've met are much worse, though. Thank heaven for small mercies. Exercise: More than half an hours exercise every day makes me much saner. Otherwise I tend to get a bit stir crazy. I find the more exercise I do, the better I feel, for a whole bunch of reasons. Its probibly going to be that way for the rest of my life. Anger Managment: I used to get realy angry when things didnt work out my way. Now I've taken a cognitive behavioral aproach to watching what I think, and how I act. Lot of work, but very rewarding. With ADD it is easy to overract to stimulus. Sometimes when someone is talkng to me, I feel like they are shouting. Sometimes when they are annoyed, it can feel like they are enraged. I notice the signs in myself, and learn when to take a step back. Not easy, but very efective. What no one told me, I had to go and read in a study for mysef, is the long term efect of amphetimines. While they can be extreemly helpfull, after many years of use, they can gradualy burn out the dopamine recepters in the brain. Some kids I hear of are on huge doese of Ritilin or whatever. Its a lot more work to learn stratagys to cope withoug drugs. It certanly can be overwhelming at times, I am well aware. In my experience, starting with a medium dose, and eventualy working down to a very low dose or no dose, is what worked for me. Now I only take a pill when I realy need it. Test coming up, deadline to meet, job interview. Where stress is high, and I want to perform my best.
In the maelstrom of the chaos at the center of my mind, I taste the salt of sadness as I feel my soul unwind.
"There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning"
Translation:
1. The patient is in danger of failing school because of inability to concentrate or get work done
2. Danger of being expelled from school for "hyperactive behaviors"
3. Adults - Unable to hold a job
The most important thing that I had to learn was that the drugs won't make you want to do things you don't want to do. You can divide tasks you currently fail at into three categories:
1) You can't focus and stick to it.
2) You don't really want to.
3) You aren't capable.
Before, I couldn't really tell the difference between the three. Part of that problem was that I was afraid to start things because I knew I couldn't follow through. It was all a muddle. And when things got tough, I'd give up. I couldn't tell whether that was because it really was too hard or because there was a threshhold of dedication that I just couldn't get over. Now, using the drugs, I have a lot more clarity. I know that if I'm capable of doing something and if I want to do it, it'll get done. That's a huge change for me. I also have a clearer understanding of what I really can do, so I know when something is just beyond my ability. The drugs have their side effects, but the clarity they have made possible is an unequivocally good thing. It also sticks with me when I'm not using them, which gives me some hope for a productive and drug-free future.
You have a choice: tax and spend Democrats, or borrow and spend Republicans. Choose wisely.
"Too many children are being labeled for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and improperly placed on psychotropic drugs such as Ritalin and Adderall to be 'calmed down,' according to House testimony. Most child-health specialists agree that about 2% of schoolchildren 'are so pervasively overactive or inattentive that they are very difficult for anyone to manage.' But up to 17% of schoolchildren are being labeled for attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, said Dr. William B. Carey, director of behavioral pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia." --The Washington Times - 9 Jun 2003
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David Neeleman is the CEO of JetBlue Airways. He has now been told that he has ADD. He didnâ(TM)t take drugs. I wonder where he would be today if his parents had forced Ritalin on him. Most probably not the head of a profitable airline.
NYTimes - ADHD - Neeleman
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"They made a list of the most common symptoms of emotional discomfiture of children; those which bother teachers and parents most, and in a stroke that could not be more devoid of science or Hippocratic motive--termed them a 'disease.' Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term 'research.,' has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease. Tragically--the "epidemic" having grown from 500 thousand in 1985 to between 5 and 7 million today--this remains the state of the 'science' of ADHD."
adhdfraud.com
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
Seriously. I have ADHD and it really sucks.
A lot of easy jokes have been made here, and frankly they all suck. I make sure not to mention to anyone that I have ADHD unless they are a good friend or need to know because the "did you take your meds?" joke isn't just tired by this point, it's painful.
I take Ritalin. It helps me a lot. It's the difference between holding down a good job and being unemployed and possibly even homeless. It really is that night and day. I am trying something new that can be taken along with Ritalin that might replace it, but in my all too real experience without Ritalin my life is a disorganized mess.
I don't really have more to add, but ADHD isn't as fun as you might think. It hurts your job prospects, it hurts your social life, and it hurts any projects you try to attempt.
On the upside, ADHD often comes with the ability to hyperfocus. I sometimes work on writing music for 8 or 9 hours at a time, completely obsessed with every minor detail, even forgetting to eat. If I could turn this on and off at the drop of a hat, I would have had a 4.0 in college. Instead I fought the ADHD like crazy and got a 3.3.
Most of you probably don't realize that ADHD has a tight association with dysthymia, a mild but chronic depression that in and of itself is self-destructive. If you're not careful the two disorders will feed off each other.
I'm 26 now. The Hyperactive part of the disorder mostly means that I'm a bit eccentric and excitable, where in the past it made me a social pariah. I've got a good therapist helping me leverage what advantages ADHD gives me and minimize the downsides. I'm glad I'm confronting my ADHD head on instead of dismissing it as a myth or an excuse for parents/teachers.
I agree that it's probably overdiagnosed, but for those of us who really have it, it sucks.
.
Sounds like standard behaviour for any healthy kid who's a bit bored and wants to go running around with his friends, getting covered in mud, falling out of trees etc.
Alternatively, reading it again, it sounds more like someone who doesn't get enough exercise and enjoys sports more than office work. i.e. 99% of all office workers.
Could it be our bodies haven't adapted to our office/TV/car dominated lifestyle?
[I] was placed on academic probation in under a year despite having a 3.8 in my major
3.8 in under a year? That Intro to CS class must have been really tough.
No offense intended to sufferers of ADD/ADHD, but falling asleep during spanish class, church, family reunions, etc., isn't exclusive to the disorder. Anyone can stay focused on something that he/she is interested in (sex comes to mind). Staying focused on something that you don't enjoy is called self-discipline.
I was diagnosed with "adult ADHD" a few years ago and tried a number of medications, including both Ritalin and a drug called Adderall, which contains dextroamphetamine ("Dexadrine") along with another isomer of the same chemical formula.
The stimulants did help me concentrate, but they also caused me to become somewhat "manic" in the sense that I got extremely overoptimistic about a business venture (an invention involving wireless, recordable toys that could talk back and forth to each other). I then spent far too much of my own money on the project, and ended up with troublesome debts.
I was never psychotic, violent, or dangerous, so maybe what I had should be called "hypomania" (a milder version) rather than "mania", but I really did go out and spend far too much money! And spending too much money is one of the hallmarks of mania.
Even though I stopped taking amphetamines several years ago, I still miss that enthusiasm and the ability to hyper-concentrate for long periods. But I would say that overall, taking those drugs was a mistake, and I would not do it again.
Just my two cents.
Sigmund
And I suppose personal testimony from other ADHDers on how they cope with work is completely invalid?
Medicine is not an exact science, least of all psychology and psychiatry. With enough personal testimony, the results become statistically significant. Without any personal testimony, psychology and psychiatry have no ground to stand on.
In terms of coping with life, personal testimony is the only valid metric.
Hi, I a rarely post so I'm an anonymous coward today but do occupy a lot of my procrastination time here (go figure). Anyway, I've found the following about my productivity vis a vi my ADHD. BTW, I'm 34 and was diagnosed at 10 and given ritalin and quickly taken off of it. My teachers (all of them) accused me of being a daydreamer. That may sound familiar to many of you. I was also at the top of my class in standardized testing and started programming computers at 12. Enough of the history...
;)
1) Coffee helps me. I'm addicted, yes, and don't know if it *really* helps but I believe that it helps me focus.
2) If you are in front of your computer and can't "get into" the project, just walk away and come back later. because...
3) As you know, when you are productive you are *very* productive and wasted time surfing/procrastinating/whatever just amounts to wasted time no matter how much time you spend trying to "get into" your project.
4) I find that I concentrate best when I'm slightly tired (evening) or completely fresh (morning).
5) Exercise and other activities outside of your work are vital for providing external/other stuff that your brain is craving. Don't ignore them.
6) Don't be discouraged by the diagnoses. Like many things, ADD/ADHD is a double-edged sword. When you are interested and able to concentrate on a project you'll find that the hyperconcentration works to your advantage. Many many talented people are ADHD.
7) Don't read too much into the Diagnosis. ADHD is a 'threshold' thing and you may happen to be over the threshold. It's not a black and white issue.
Good luck, have fun and for crying out loud... do you *really* need to have 15 browser windows, two magazines, a TV and 25 downloads on Kazaa going?
You sir, are a moron. You're actually stating that methamphetamines make people forget that killing is bad? Troubled students who shoot their peers have deeply rooted emotional problems that need serious attention. Ritalin is the wrong drug for these types of problems, but that in no way means it is responsible for their actions.
Maybe so, but you can look at a specific set of symptoms and categorise them. What you're saying is akin to "There's no such thing as cancer, only tumors growing out of control!"
See, you give a specific set of symptoms a name so as to distinguish it from others. Is it so hard to believe there is a set of people who exhibit the same symptoms and respond the same way to the same medications?
A truly amazing fact, is the response to nervous system stimulants among individuals diagnosed with ADHD. When a "normal" individual takes such drugs, they tend to become very hyperactive, whereas the inverse is observed among ADHD patients: stimulants slow them down.
Also, there is a characteristic imbalance of serotonin and dopamine. The result is depression, often severe, with no response to SSRIs and other such anti-depressants, because an SSRI works to block the reuptake of serotonin -- but in the case of an ADHD patient, there is less serotonin to begin with.
"[A] high IQ is like a Jeep; you will still get stuck, just farther from help!" --Just d' FAQs, c.g.a
Which is not to say that biological psychiatrists don't actually help people. I myself have gotten a lot of good use out of them. But only after wasting a lot of time on blind alleys. It's taken them a long time for them to understand that people don't fit into the neat little models and categories that medicine likes to use. Only now are they beginning to understand how much empiricism there is in their art.
Now, whatever the chemical similarities between Ritalin and caffeine (and I don't think Eric Raymond is a reliable source for anything except his own pet theories) not everybody has a a similar response to these two drugs. I myself find R helpful for controlling the symptoms of ADHD, and coffee not at all. On the other hand I get a pleasant buzz from a cup of strong coffee, but no direct change of mood from Ritalin at all. (That's very atypical -- took my psychiatrist a long time to accept that I was being honest with him.) Bottom line: every body (pun intentional) is differnt. You use what works.
If you "haven't really had a problem", WTF were you on Adderal in the first place?
Same here. If I could stay up for 22 and sleep for 8 then I would have zero problems. I'm just not ready to sleep after a mere 16 hours. Typically I sleep about 3 - 4 hours per night, feel like absolute crap in the morning, drag all day, and by 8pm I feel fine and am ready to stay up until 3am again. At 3am I force myself to go to bed, although I feel fine, but as soon as I am horizontal I'm out like a light.
For me, I find I have ADHD symptoms if I am tired but not if I am well rested. It is rather dramatic actually. Those rare occasions where I get a full 8 hours of snooze make me extrordinarily productive the following day. Thats a problem with technology jobs, you never become physically tired so your sleep cycle gets all messed up. When I worked labor jobs I was so physically tired that I never had much trouble making myself sleep.
Now that we are all more or less brains in a jar in front of a computer, the 24 hour cycle is just too short.
Clickety Click
I had ADD as a kid, while my sister has ADHD to this day. I took ritalin from as young as I can remember until I was 12 (I'm 29 now, so I was on ritalin before it was 'cool'), then cylert and tofranil until I was 16, then cylert alone until I was 19. Once I hit college, I just weaned myself off of cylert over the course of three weeks (on my own, without doctors' advice..).
Once I hit sixteen, I realized I needed to start taking steps to bring things under control myself, rather than depend upon medication for the rest of my life. I started consciously working to focus my mind, admittedly no small feet. These days, I think I overcompensated, as I have the ability to, when I need to, focus solely on one task, blocking out the need to eat, smoke, and even move, in some cases. Even though heart rate is controlled through the autonomic nervous system, with a bit of focus, I can slow my heart rate down to approx 45 bpm, even able to go down to 1 beat every 2 seconds in the extreme case.
Personally, I don't know that ADD/ADHD really exist. I think it's kind of like saying that people with fair skin have problems with the sun. No kidding. Some minds are more frenetic than others, just as some folks' skin is lighter than others'. People with fair skin can spend time in the sun with either sunblock (drugs) or gradually building up a base tan and letting the melanin do its thing (mental control and focus).
Learning how to harness and control the power of that frenetic mind has probably had the single most profound effect on my life of anything I've ever done. In my career as a developer, it's been invaluable for marathon coding stretches. It's also helped professionally in that there can be many thought patterns whirling around at any given time, allowing for efficient multi-tasking. I've consistently surprised my co-workers with my ability to be deep in thought working on something, while simultaneously being able to hear conversations and chime in with cogent commentary. In my personal life, it's been useful for being able to learn things, simultaneously taking in new concepts and referring to old ones to create a mental framework for how things "work" together.
Best advice is to learn how to harness it and use it to your advantage. You may need medication while you're in that process, but once you're done, they may not be necessary anymore.
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
Caffiene and Ritalin/Adderrall is effectively different flavors of stimulants (speed).
... just try to go a week without your periodic caffiene "fix" and see what happens ;-)
The ADD/ADHD brain lacks an "internal" stimulation. Sufferers are forced to look outside for sources of stimulation. For this crowd excellent example in this case is video games or a difficult problem. For others it could be fast driving, para-chuting, base jumping, flying, raving, kick-boxing, etc...
Not all stimulants are created equal however. Caffiene is notoriously ADDICTIVE and while it provides an immediate "kick" it bombs out pretty drastically leaving worse off than you started. Many people suffer migraines if they stop taking caffiene.
In the long run, I would say that caffiene makes ADD symptoms worse. This is from someone who WAS addicted to caffiene. I now take an extended release adderall and it's a world better than a caffinated beverage.
Furthermore, unlike caffiene, ADD prescribed medications are not physically/chemically addictive. That is you don't suffer physical withdrawal (naseau, cramps, migraines) like you do with Caffiene. Those of you scoffing at this remark
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Well, I've spent years working with children with severe and real ADHD problems, often mixed with other physical and mental handicaps.
I have only ever seen one approach result in a significant improvement in their quelity of life, and that is occupational therapy.
There is no drug out there that 'treats' ADHD, they all just mask it, which gives the brain no reason to learn its way to an improvement, the drugs are the worst enemy of an ADHD sufferer who actually wants to get better.
A seriously approached treatment program with a qualified and knowledgable occupational therapist can make a LARGE difference in even severe cases of ADHD, I've seen it - and I'm not talking about your average cases here but the type that land you up in perminent special care and are often linked to other physical and mental handicaps.
ADHD, like many brain dysfunctions, can be 'learned' out with enough work - maybe not totally, but often to a level that makes it very manageable.
I am being sincere when I say that I have much respect for everyone here. I am not suggesting that the "condition" of ADD or ADHD, OCD, RAD and all the other "diseases" and "disorders" do not exist. The circumstances that these conditions describe do obviously exist. However, I take offense to the industry that has cropped up to take advantage of people who are troubled, and promote this ideal that there is some sort of solution that more often than not, involves the medical/theraputical/pharmacological equivalent of a get-rich-quick scheme.
What we are talking about, in essence, with the exception of extreme cases where people have very serious, identifiable physical handicaps, is a burgeoning new industry which revolves around the selling of drugs to alter peoples' personalities, and usually to just make them non-uppity so they fall into line like everyone else and don't make waves.
Take RAD for instance: Reactive Attachment Disorder. A psychological "condition" where people who have come from backgrounds of trauma, abuse or abandonment have trouble getting close to others. The same thing for ADD. It's a behavioral anomoly, but it's only really an anomoly by comparison to what is considered a social norm, so it's arguable as to whether or not anyone is ultimately "afflicted" or they're merely guilty of being different from those around them.
Do these issues need to be treated? Sure. But the way in which they are being treated, especially with drugs, for most people, exacerbates the condition and makes it worse.
The end result is that society pushes people who are different into little categories in order to explain why they are disappointing, unproductive, unusual, etc. Rather than taking some time to understand a person, let's just call him ADD and pop a pill in his mouth. What kind of goddam treatment is that?
Regarding ADD and its various spin-offs, I'd bet good money you can find a solid correllation between people diagnosed with ADD and being put on medication and: 1. Crappy, self-absorbed parents who would rather give their kid a pill or send him to a psychologist than actually sit down with him and take some time to understand his issues; 2. People who grew up with a very low amount of physical activity during formative developmental periods, and 3. children who were weaned on excessive amounts of television, video games and other forms of hyperactive sensory bombardment.
Especially regarding ADD. Who the fuck isn't going to have a short attention span when they spend X hours a day watching television or playing games, which nowadays are so amazingly explosive, redundant and senationalized in their presentation of information, it's obvious the media has the capacity to desensitize people to the many non-obnoxious nuances of communication.... THIS is the source of ADD.
I read an article the other day from a psychology publication that stated that people nowadays are so bombarded with redundant soundbytes of information, it now takes 6-7 transmissions of the same advertising message to "stick" in a person's head. And every day it gets worse.
Put down the controller. Pull out the GTA cartridge, get off your ass and go out and ride your skateboard... Get physically active; lay off caffeine; make an effort to alter your normal behavior via normal means! Stop going from high speed to sedating yourself before you go to sleep. Before we had mass-obnoxious-neuron-sucking media, humans got along well and had plenty to do. Our technology is turning newer generations into epileptic zombies.
Our brains are incredibly powerful instruments. They get used to things; chemicals we put in our bodies; stimuli we are exposed to. If you sit there for hours a day being bombarded with little soundbytes, then unless your boss is wearing a flat panel LCD screen around his neck with the NASDAQ scrolling off it, and flailing dramatically as he talks, you're probably somewhat board with the dullness of the interaction.
Who's fault is that? The
What is it with idiots like you, and why do so many other idiots feel the need to mod you up? Are you driven by some compulsion to denigrate the parenting skills of others?
The Washington Times (owned by the founder of the Unification Church) and ADHDFraud are hardly unbiased sources, and for every David Neeleman you quote, psychiatrists can tell you of several hundred anonymous failures of whom you are unaware, whose biggest failing in life was never to have had the chance to receive the sort of treatment that is now widely available.
There's a certain delusion out there that seems to be widespread, which goes like this: ADHD is treated with drugs, drugs are "unnatural" and therefore bad, so any parent whose child is receiving treatment for ADHD is somehow negligent. But this is simply rubbish, as many "natural" things are extremely bad, while some "unnatural" things are very helpful. Faeces is "natural", but would you want some near you? Smallpox is natural, as is Polio, or skin cancer for that matter. On the other hand, Aspirin and soap are man-made and "unnatural", but you wouldn't willingly give either up, would you?
Parents with children who have ADHD already have enough to handle, without having busybodies and know-it-alls like you lecturing them for their supposed failings. Do you suppose that any sane parent would willingly see his or her child diagnosed with such an affliction and subjected to medication? What do you know of what it must be like to live with the consequences of such a problem? You wouldn't presume to tell the parents of an autistic or retarded child to just "get over it", but you feel yourself qualified to do the same with ADHD? Why is that? Is it because ADHD is actually treatable, while those afflictions aren't?
Thom Hartmann ("ADD: A Different Perception.") doesn't believe that the ADD condition is a disability.
He believes there are two kinds of people, Hunters and Farmers. Hunters have to scan the horizon, taking in all the inputs in order to find game. Farmers plod ahead, focused on plowing their current row.
http://www.thomhartmann.com/hunterfarmer.shtml
He found a high incidence of ADD in some natives in Canada (Inuit?), a tribe that gets most of their food by hunting.
The problem with today's education system, is that we're trying to force Hunters to be Farmers. Ritalin, an amphetamine, calms Hunters down.
But there are many successful Hunters that don't need to conform to the Farmer world. So, the Hunter should find a career that utilizes his traits (as noted in the above URL), and he will be successful and happy.
My son was constantly getting kicked out of daycares for being too aggressive, and when his kindergarden teacher was totally exasperated because he would never sit down, we had him diagnosed. Giving him drugs was the last thing we wanted to do, but the alternative was major damage to his self-esteem because he couldn't control himself and felt like a failure. Too much Ritalin will make a kid into a zombie, I didn't like that. But just the right amount allowed him to control himself and he was much happier.
Now that he's in high school, he quit taking those drugs. Earlier he had switched to Adderol, but it affected his heart. Now he's trying to deal with being a Hunter. It's very challenging, he's smart and scores high but gets very low grades because homework doesn't get done.
I know he'll be successful in whatever he decides to do. I don't consider grades to be an indicator of his future success.
So if you want to try meds to help you get along better in life, work with the doctor on them, but remember that you're in charge, and if that's not how your doctor wants to work, get another doctor. If Ritalin isn't doing it for you, and something else might, you and your doctor can experiment. (And of course that's for most other kinds of medicine besides ADHD as well.) Maybe Wellbutrin works for you (some people absolutely hate it!), maybe Dexedrine or other traditional amphetamines do (my niece's doctor had her on Dex in high school), maybe caffeine and/or exercise breaks work better. (Remember how schools dealt with energetic kids before Ritalin? Recess twice a day plus gym class, and sometimes actually paying individual attention to the kids...)
The big caveat with a lot of these drugs is that they are messing with your head, and everybody's reaction is somewhat different. If you find yourself getting wacked out or strung out, it's time to get attention quickly, because taking mind-altering drugs that aren't a good match for you can really mess you up, and the reason you're taking them is to help you cope better, not worse. Lots of people I know do anti-depressants, and some do manic-depressive drugs, and sometimes they find that after a while life just sucks, or that it doesn't suck badly but it just isn't any fun either, or that everything's fine and normal most of the time with occasional interruptions of suicidal depression or psychotic anger, which is not something you want to leave alone...
Bill Stewart
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Sure, I'll bite, why not?
I can't read more than two pages of a book, even an engaging one, at a time.
I can't write (I love to write) more than a scene at a time.
I can't watch a whole movie in one sitting.
I can't read long web pages without just drifting off onto another page.
I can't listen to someone talk for more than one minute.
I can't drive long distances without almost getting myself killed because I zone off.
I can't organize anything in my mind. Nothing. When I had to put furniture in my home people wondered why I had the TV in the dining room. Truth it, that's the only place it fit the way I arranged things. Five minutes later my wife had it arranged properly. Five minutes.
I have to have to-do lists out the yang to remember the basics of everyday life.
I run out of gas because I forget to look at the guage until it's too late.
I like the fact I have to go to work, and I do it well. It's normal life I have problems with. Things like, well, reading a book. Fine, you don't have to live this life. I do. The core fault of prejudice is assuming too much. You're assuming that because you can't understand not being able to control what you are interested in, that the disorder cannot exist. That's a fallacy.
ADHD is not a disease in my opinion, its just people refusing to do things they arent interested in.
;)
While that may be true, opinions count for jack shit in science. You ought to look up the statistics related and try to find bias and other problems. See how the numbers speak to your opinion. Also actually find out the science behind the drug.
And if you indeed find that Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is just an attribute typical of lazy people, pass me some pills.
Since I never even take aspirin and already had to live with AHDH for 29 years before I even realized there was a name for my behavior and had arranged with a more or less fitting lifestyle, I had/have strong resentments against taking any drugs. To handle some of the problems I use some of the following tricks:
Since I started being self-employed (again) I try to simulate the office.
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Being someone who has ADD, and also works within the psychiatric profession. I can speak from both a patient and a professional level. The simple fact is when it comes to any medication, what may be beneficial to one person may be a nightmare for another.
Over the last 20 years, there's been many approaches to treating this disorder. Many of which have included using various anti-depressants (including tricyclics which were notorious for tons of side-effects, and newer ones like Strattera, Adderall, Wellbutrin).
Why is Ritalin prevalent? Because it has been around the longest, has been tested in hundreds of studies, and has a pretty good rate of success for treating the symptoms. It's about like why do you take Tylenol for headaches? Because it has a history of success. But, even Tylenol doesn't treat all headaches. That is the same case with medications that have been used to treat ADHD, and is why there are continually more options of treatment becoming available.
Within the field itself, there have been many disagreements as to the cause of this disorder. Medications like Adderall for instance tend to work on Dopamine, and Norepinephrine. While the newer non-stimulant based Strattera is entirely on Norepinephrine alone. In my personal experience, taking Strattera was living hell.. But, taking Adderall (as prescribed) has benefitted my life, and my lifestyle beyond anything I could imagine.
An argument I see a lot of the time is "it makes *me* do this". A simple abstraction of the same instance would be with diabetes. If the average person took an insulin shot, they would most definitely have undesirable side-effects. However, a person with the disorder and lacks the chemicals necessary to perform a certain vital function finds it to save their life. This instance can be carried over to the effects of ADHD medications on a non-ADHD'er.
So I have these symptoms should I take a medication? is a question that is commonly asked. And the answer comes down to one thing, Quality of Life. If you have lost jobs due to your inability to maintain constistancy, inability to complete tasks, and meet other criteria, then consider a medication to assist you in acheiving your maximum potential. Of course the opposite side of the coin are the side-effects mentioned in posts above, and at that point, again Quality of Life needs to be considered, and decided on by the patient, and the doctor if necessary.
Bottom line is, everyone's different.... Not everyone has the same results.... If you're struggling with a disorder of any type, and you feel there may be benefits from a medication, or various medications, it is your option to pursue those to improve your Quality of Life.
Adian
I've been a developer for eleven years. I've been trying to focus ever since college, and all I have to show for it is a string of pointless all-nighters, frustrated girlfriends, broken commitments, and half-baked code that I knew how to do right but never quite managed to. I started evaluating medication last winter, and I'm starting to feel in control of my brain for the first time in my life.
"Rewire their brain" belongs in a bad Matrix parody. Some problems have real, physical causes, and no amount of mind-over-matter drivel can make up for having the right tools. Nobody seems to think "try harder" is a cure for diabetes or quadraplegia....
That is the point in time when you call up your doctor and bitch something awful.
I feel much MORE sharp with my meds, thank you so very much.
You won't believe how much easier it is to do math problems when I am able to remember what the fuck I am supposed to be sitting down and doing
For the record, ritalin does seem to generally suck, but that doesn't mean ADHD doesn't exist.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Umm. . . .
It is. Anger management problems ARE a recognized disorder, people get treated for it all the time. Hell I was treated for it.
You would be laughed at, it is a social disability.
A competent doctor (admittedly getting harder and harder to find by the day. . . .) would advice for therapy, much higher success rate and all. :) (I went in for a dual therapy / meds approach)
Also please explain to me why people who have short tempers just need to take anger management classes, while a person with ADHD must go on all these meds?
Those two paragraphs contradict themselves. A person with anger management issues is NOT considered "normal" (WTF is normal any ways? :-P ), they are sent for anger management classes.
And to answer your second question, it is because the success rate of therapy classes for most very low to mild cases of anger management issues is very high.
Indeed, it is not until the extremely severe cases of anger issues that medicines start to be prescribed with regularity. But yes, they ARE prescribed.
HOW THE FUCKING HELL IS MANIC DEPRESSION A PERSONALITY TRAIT.
Please explain to me how the f*ck people trying to KILL THEMSELVES is a freakin PERSONALITY TRAIT.
regularly reoccurring bouts of SUICIDE are NOT an "issue" to be worked through, THEY ARE A SERIOUS FREAKING PROBLEM.
Yeesh, next you are going to tell me that OCD is just a personality trait to! (Oh it is perfectly A-OK that she cut her fingernails down to the point of SEVERELY BLEEDING, bleck!)
An alternative view, pills can allow a person's natural traits to come out instead of being OVERRIDDEN by a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE.
Without the pills it doesn't much matter because I do not have any control as to what I do!
Hey, don't get me wrong, I have always advocated for a dual therapeutic and medicinal approach with the pure therapeutic approach being tried first, but the fact is that making a blanket statement DISMISSING all of wide variety of medical research that has gone into treating ADHD as being irrelevant is FOOLISH.
The pills CAN and DO and WILL CONTINUE to help people, it is unfortunate that some idiot doctors choose to over prescribe them out of either ignorance of malevolence.
Where did I say they where side effect free?
I personally use Dexedrine, which has the side effects of SHARPENING my concentration and SPEEDING up my mind. Soon after taking my dosage I can work damn near miraculous math problems in my head and figure out the solution to just about
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
I exhibits most of the diagnostic indicators of ADHD and/or Autism, but I've never been 'diagnosed' and firmly reject the premise these are a disability or disease. I am poor at sport and empathic stuff, I'm constantly told I lack focus and concentration yet I know I am quite capable of focusing and concentration on something I find interesting and challenging for much longer than 'normal' people.
The real question should what is 'normal' and why should everybody be 'normal'. When any ability, attribute or skill of people is measured some people must end up on the extremes of the curve, this is entirely normal and is called a normal distribution.
Some people are good at sport, some people are poor at sport.
Some people are high EQ, some people are low EQ.
Some people are high IQ, some people are low IQ.
My special abilities allow me to conceive unusually and innovative solutions to problems, I can think around a problem in a way that 'normal' people are unable to even contemplate because they think in what I see as simplistic linear manner. I think this makes me and other similar people gifted not disabled.
I think you should read the THE EVIL PRACTICE OF NARCOTHERAPY FOR ATTENTION DEFICIT by Dr. David Keirsey. It may change the way you think about yourself.
You should also know that many of the greatest minds in history have exhibited the same symptoms as what is now called ADHD and/or Autism, Albert Einstein, Issac Newton, Isambard Brunel, Alexander Graham Bell; to name four.
There are many more here.
Finally two rhetorical questions.
Why are so many supposed 'normal' people prepared to label these abilities a disease or disability that must have a cause ? Many of these same people ascribe ADHD and/or Autism to MMR (or mercury in vaccines) because if it is a disease or disability it must have a cause. These 'normal' people are *supposed* to be empathic, yet give little consideration to our feelings in fact they do this despite our feels or thought on this subject. I think they should focus more effort into understanding that labelling.
First off, I am ADHD but manage it quite well. In my opinion, many diseases like diabetes, hypoglycemia, ADHD, and certain mental illnesses are diet and lifestyle related. Note: I said "related" and not "caused".
:)
Shocked?!!
We live in a society where the docs tell you, "You aren't responsible for your disease and condition, just take this magic pill."
Tell me about your diet. Is it filled with sugar, carbs, and caffene? How regularly do you eat (3 meals per day)? Also, have you ever had your blood sugar checked?
Tell me about your excercise routine. Do you excercise daily, infrquently, or never?
What has helped me is:
1. Laying off the caffene, only one shot in the morning.
2. Eating well balanced meals that aren't filled with sugar and carbs at regularly scheduled times. I even eat Oatmeal for breakfast everyday now.
3. Daily excercise.
Don't lose heart. If you can do it for 20 days you can make something a habit/lifesytle change.
As for ADHD in children, have you visited a school lately? Schools now come equipped with vending machines and the Pop companies (coke/pepsi) give some of the profits back to the school. Where has common sense gone? Give kids stimulants and empty calories like pop and potato chips then expect them to behave and perform well? Whaaaaaa?
Note: I do believe that there are people with legitimate brain chemistry problems. However the vast majority of people just need to eat right, excercise, and work on some self discipline and they will be fine. Check Amazon.com for these books..
The Myth of ADHD and Other Learning Disabilities. Parenting Without Ritalin.
The A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. Diet! Updated
And remember, you are responsible for you. You have a disorder. You are NOT this disorder. Also there are no "silver bullets". No magic pills or herbs that will magically cure. However, I do get daily emails from some guys telling me that have an ancient formula to make my "package" larger.
Good Luck!
Evidently you know nothing about ADD.
I have ADD, and I can tell you, it's not a joke, it's not being "lazy", or just plain old "lack of discipline".
You can argue about whether ADD is one "thing", or just symptoms caused by a number of other things, but whatever it is, it is definitely "real".
Is it overdiagnosed? Possibly. Are some kids getting medicated to calm them down so teachers can cope with large classrooms? Possibly. But don't use that as an excuse to dismiss ADD completely.
I'm pleased to see that you've demonstrated a good grasp of the biochemistry behind some cases of depression... NOT.
I'm open to the idea that they're over-prescribed, but they're sometimes appropriate, OK?
Amen to that. I don't want in any way dispute that people diagnosed ADHD etc. are suffering. But I think that a lot goes wrong in todays medicine business.
Kids bad in school -> Give them ritalin
Kids too active for their parents -> Give them ritalin
people don't care for themselves,f*ck up their lives and get in a bad mood -> give them prozac.
people eat too much, don't exercise, ruin their health -> need a plethora of medicaments.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think something like depression doesn't exist, or that people diagnosed ADHD are hypochondriacs - with ADHD though it might be that psychologists invented it to fill up the last "else:" statement of the diagnostic process.
The southpark episode "Timmy 2000" comes to mind to satirically show the processes which might happen in families and lead to kids getting drugs.
I went on chemotherapy for a platelet proliferation disorder in 1995 or so. It is called malignant by some doctors and benign by others, but definitely isn't metastatic. I researched my condition, found the expert researcher in the field, and made an appointment with him at the Mayo clinic. When I got back from there with a recommendation to go off chemo, my hematologist in Berkeley took his other three patients with the condition off of chemo as well. I am still symptom-free today. And I am a father now, but would probably have gone sterile if I stayed on chemo.
And this is just one of my three medical horror stories, another of which is a hyperactivity diagnosis in my youth with which I would take issue today, and the third of which is a motor speech and movement deficit that it took until I was 18 years old for me to beat. But I have beat all of these things.
You must fully engage in your medical care, and be the main person driving it. Not your doctor, you.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
You sir obviously do not have ADHD, nor know anyone that does. Ritalin DOES NOT SLOW THE BRAIN DOWN, it stop the RAMDOM firing of neurons. I have ADHD possibly Asbergers Syndrome. I have a million thoughts running through my head, and somtimes it is hard to pick out one and concentrate on it. Think of being in a very crowded room or bar and trying to hold a converstaion with one person. Now imagine that noise in your head except being ramdom thoughts and ideas. This is how I feel about 80% of the time. So don't judge other people's problems until you have been there.
If Kerry was the answer, it must have been a stupid question.
The UN - The largest "political" cause of death.
I have been coping with depression and mood swings, although I had serious problems with intermittent hyperactivity in high school, which I "grew out of". I am now 25 and still have difficulty with mood, etc. Heavy drug use complicated things as well.
... this was compounded by my shrink "firing me" for a variety of reasons. I hit the wall very very hard. The additional complication was that I was taking 5-HTP in the evening to help with sleep. As the dose of the Zoloft was supposed to be dropping in my body over the next two weeks I increased the amount of 5-HTP I was taking both in the morning and in the evening to about 250mg a shot. After the psychosis of the Zoloft cold-turkey (serious) began to subside I felt better for a couple of days, then all of a sudden I turned red, my body went up to about 105oF and I started hallucenating. My heart felt like it was going to explode. I got sent home from work and slept it off for a few days. My doctor told me in passing that it was probably serotonin syndrome and that I should have gone to Emerg.
In January 2002 my depression was at its worst and I decided to start doing more research into brain chemistry and try to start making some positive decisions. At this point I started refining various regimens similar to what you have been taking.
The most critical thing I have found is to get *enough* sleep and *enough* stimulation. Too much or too little sleep seems to throw *whatever* brain chemicals are present out of whack. Too much stimulation, stress or worry seems to do the same. You spoke of being emotionally flatlined -- well, if you are an extreme person you are going to cause this to happen.
I read a couple of online forums which have since disappeared which helped me get my vitamins in order -- I take a mineral + base vitamin supplement (Life Brand senior's vitamins, better mix of minerals than most "SUPER HIGH POTENCY" adult crap) then I add on C, B-50 Complex, E, Calcium+Mag+Zinc (very important if you are a sexually active male) and Salmon Oil. Occasionally I take a small amount of Ginkgo and Ginseng, both only in the morning.
In Feburary 2002 I was in a deep depression and I was put on a massive dose of Zoloft. Over the period of 1995 - 2002 I was on and off doses of zoloft up to 200mg. It made me a zombie, 100% impotent and the depression was still there. I would usually end up doing opiates or anaesthetics to just zonk my emotions out anyways. I started ramping the dose of Zoloft down but since I was working 3 jobs totalling around 70-80 hours a week in high stress conditions I wasn't getting alot of sleep either (this is very easy on a high dose of Zoloft. You just don't sleep.) I finally got sick of the constant withdrawl effects of zoloft and went cold turkey. THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA
So just a warning. Don't mess around with SSRI's and 5-HTP (or l-tryptophan) and MOST IMPORTANTLY DO NOT TAKE St. JOHN'S WORT WTHIN 1 MONTH OF A LARGE SSRI DOSE!!!
Next Point. I have in the meantime reduced my "illegal" drug intake to nil, reduced my sugar and caffeine intake to almost nil, started sleeping at least 6hrs/night or more and started a sauna/cardio/weights program a few days a week. Over the year I helped the down bumps with 5-HTP and when I was over-stimulated I went for a run. Now when I get depressed or excitable it seems to be able to run itself out without drama in an hour like other people seem to do.
The problem is that in the meantime it can be a very long process to get to that point.
Remember, MORE dopamine and MORE serotonin are only sometimes the answer, sometime you just need a little tiny bump. A glass of red wine or some red meat can in some cases do WONDERS.
Anyways...
--- ask me about nihilism, I will have nothing to tell you.
Theres no scientific proof that bacteria even exists. This is all experienced based. People with bacteria reporting to so called experts, experts watching people with bacteria and conducting studies and tests.
Sound about right?
fuck you.
yes, and quadraplegics are just lazy.
you are a f*cking idiot. When you don't have an issue, it's oh so easy to dismiss those that do.
he got diagnosed as an adult, moron. Because he was trying. Looking for how to make his life work, because he wanted it to work. You missed the point, being a moron with no experience of hardship: AFTER being diagnosed, he USED the information & remedies available and GOT his life together and became productive.
What adversity have YOU overcome in life that qualifies you to sneer? Loser.
Anyone taking your advice will wreck their metabolism and probably end up in the hospital.
Yes, people eat too much, but more importantly they eat CRAP.
I agree about the excersise though. Everyone would benefit from excersising themselves to exhaustion at least 3 times per week.
I also agree about the sleep. A lot of people I know who have complained about exhaustion start off their complaint with "I get 10 hours of sleep every night and I'm still tired!", that's their problem. I tell them to get 6 hours of sleep instead. Most of them feel great when they do that.
The one exception that rule is illness or injury. I always recommend getting a few hours extra sleep if you are injured or sick.
Kintanon
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I was diagnosed with ADHD in 1994 at the age of 16. The symptoms were always there. It should have been abvious. I, personally, have tried every drug and drug variant ont he market and what works for me is Ritalin or Ritalin XR (extended release). My husband is quite happy with Concerta as is my brother. My cousin is happiest with Ritalin as is my Aunt. Another of my cousins is pleased with Adderrall XR. I've found that some of the drugs work better for some of the people, but none of the drugs always work for all people. Keep trying the avrieties till you find one that works best for you. Look for one that helps you concentrate without giving you tics or destroying your appetite. Some appetite suppression is to be expected, but total appetite suppression is not an acceptable side effect. ADHD itself is a devastating, extremely pervasive disease, the subtle effects of wich are not always immediately observed. If you've been diagnosed, for feel you should be, explore the treatment options. See if your life improves before rejecting treatment. As far as addiction to the amphetamines, how addictive can it be if you can forget to take it? I don't forget to smoke, but I forget to take my pill in the morning. Maybe it's the fact that the drug makes your life normal and controllable that is addictive. I hate going without a pill. I hate not being able to concentrate or spell or do math or balance my checkbook or find my keys or my shoes. Even with the wonderful feeling of being able to do all the things normal people can do, I still forget my pill sometimes. Find what works for you. My ADHD is severe and I could not hold a job or be responsible in any way without treatment.
I'm very likely ADD myself and my research has uncovered all sorts of interesting information. Primarily:
- There are something like 6 different types of ADD
- The most common is the hyperactive one.
- The next most common is the primary inattentive variety. The intelligent Space Cadet.
- Proper clinical diagnoses should be backed up by QEEG (Quantitative EEG) or SPECT scans.
- Many tobacco users are self-medicating for ADD because Nicotine fits in acetylcholine receptors and the acetylcholine axis is one of the primary drivers of attention.
- There are many ways to treat ADD. Some methods treat ADD by increasing excercise, supplements, biofeedback, Tomatis therapy, medication etc.
- Most MDs treat it by throwing Ritalin at it, which I believe is a little bit like feeding ether into a car with a bad carburator.
- More advanced than Ritalin is Adderal, but only by dint of its longer lasting action.
- More advanced than Adderall is probably Modafinil, although it hasn't been approved for adults, only children. But I know guys who swear by Modafinil. More info at modafinil.org. Modafinil is a Class IV Controlled substance.
- Personally I believe that the best way to treat any problem is to fix it at the source. What is it that your brain is lacking that keeps the correct areas of the brain from lighting up? I would address excercise and nutrition first. Both Type 1 and Type 2 ADD patients seem to respond well to increased dopamine. A building block for dopamine is L-tyrsosine (which also increases the levels of another mild neurotrasmitter phenylethanalomine)
- Next I would look at substances that give you more of what you should have. After extensive research it became apparent (to me at least) that I was type 2 inattentive. After more research I came to the conclusion that increasing acetylcholine levels was probably the best route to try.
- There are a number substances that increase acetylcholine levels in the brain. One that I'm trying is called Centrophenoxine (Lucidril). Its a combination of DMAE (des-methyl-choline) and paarachlorophenoxyacetic acid which allows the DMAE to easily cross the blood-brain barrier.
- Other add-ons to my program might be: a. Piracetam which potentiates Centrophenoxine and vice versa. b. Deprenyl Citrate.
Excellent links to ADD descriptions are:Biochemist James South's Excellent Overview
Description of excess theta waves with ADD using QEEG
Dr. Amen's SPECT imaging site Brainplace.com This site has brain SPECT images of various types of ADD -- check the Atlas
Good luck.