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Mozilla 1.4RC2 Released
levell writes "Mozilla 1.4RC2 has been released. It looks like the final version of 1.4 may be out soon. It looks good although there are some problems with java on old linux systems (discussed here). 1.4 will be a long lived branch that some distributors will base versions of their own software on (e.g. Netscape planned release, codenamed "buffy"). 1.4 will be the last version of Mozilla released as a suite, after that the switch to separate browser, e-mail etc. applications will take place."
It isn't just old Linux systems that have problems with Java - in fact, Java applets are one of two issues that cause Mozilla to crash. The other is viewing too many images in tabs - even if you close tabs after you've viewed the pics, and try not to keep more than a half-dozen open at once, eventually it will die, and the Netscape Quality Agent pops up...
I linked to it in the story but the summary of the java problems on linux is:
You need to use a version of the java plugin that has been compiled with the same version of gcc that mozilla has been, the 1.4 latest branch mozilla build has been compiled with gcc3.2 and therefore you need to use the gcc3.2 plugin that ships in the latest betas of Sun's JRE (and there is also a suitable Blackdown java).
The kicker comes if you run an old linux distribution (e.g. Redhat 7.x), - you don't have the dynamic link libraries required to run gcc 3.2 code as they weren't available when RH7.x was released. Mozilla still runs as it includes all the relevant libraries statically linked inside it - the java plugin doesn't. You therefore either need to recompile Mozilla with an old version of gcc or install the libraries for gcc 3.2.
The release notes could do with a little tidying in order to make what java works where clear to users
.If this isn't fixed in the release version it would hint that Mozilla plan to phase out support for old distributions which would open to the door to things such as nice font rendering (via XFT) in the default builds, or do some other current distributions not come with XFT?
Struggling to find a day everyone can make? WhenShallWe.com
This is probably the most important feature missing from Mozilla for YEARS.
NTLM Support.
From the Release Notes page:
Mozilla on Windows now has support for NTLM authentication. This enables Mozilla to talk to MS web and proxy servers that are configured to use "windows integrated security".
Dolemite
_______________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
I installed rc1 yesterday, no problems. RC2 will not install without having a newer glibc installed. Ugh.
Mozilla doesn't have native NTLM support it uses the NTLM support built into windows.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
The next major Mozilla version (1.5) will use Firebird as the browser. Check out the roadmap for more details.
I always have homepage not set; I usually leave the browser running overnight.
What I do under Firebird is to have a bookmark folder on the status bar with all my morning links, and just middle click on the folder, which loads all the bookmarks as tabs. Very convenient.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
The bug in question (moz bug ID 208300) appears to be fixed for 1.4 RC2.
It's not the size of your .sig that matters, it's how you use it.
You don't seem to have heard about the new Mozilla roadmap.
Here is for you.
Example menu?
Wouldn't surprise me if it is screwed up code on your part. I mean, making a menu isn't exactly complicated but people still manage to screw it up.
run firebird with -p, and it brings up the profile manager. If you're running windows, set up a shortcut to firebird.exe" -P Username and it should run automagically as that user.
Windows 9x can't use this, neither can Linux or OS X. XP, NT, & 2k are the only supported with this release. still nothing works. as it should, after three years
m.kelley
life is like a freeway, if you don't look you could miss it.
Short answer: yes, it supports it.
I just love the FUD that flies around here...
Yes if you use a older distro you will have troubles, simply get the sources and compile it... Magically the problem goes away.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
AFAIK, MathML *requires* XHTML, period. Why complain about not being able to shoe-horn it into legacy HTML when the spec doesn't allow it?
I like being able to do it, however. It's one of my favorite things about Konqueror (besides gg:pr0n).
Having control of the information your browser supplies to web developers who "break" the standards that badly is a nice way to temporarily get around limitations. (Not sure if you can still browse technet this way or not, I haven't had to go back there in a while. *is running Moz 1.3 on Debian (sarge)*
Yes, I know I need to update the browser. Neener.
Searching for Truth, Justice, and the Guy Who Boosted My Wallet a Few Weeks Back....
This is because the beta is compiled against gcc3.2. It's the first sun release to be compiled as such. I'm using the beta right now and it works perfectly.
It should be noted that this version of Moz is not meant for universal public use. 1.3 is still the 'default' public version. So what's the harm of requiring a development version of java if you're running a development version of the browser?
B
"We must still have chaos within in order to be able to give birth to a dancing star." --Friedrich Nietzsche
Because they changed the GCC version that Mozilla is compiled with on Linux. For the Java plug-in to work, it has to be compiled with the same version of GCC as Mozilla itself. J2SE 1.4.2 Beta is the first Sun Java version to be complied with the relevant version of GCC.
Yes, that checkbox in the installer does indeed control whether you get the mailnews component. If you're using a
Do all the "important" surfing actions (Open new tab, bookmark, save image, Open every link and the all important Minimize Window!) with just one hand.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Threaded mail is a handy feature, especially when following multiple discussions on mailing lists. And, though Mozilla supports threading, it just doesn't remember the threaded expansion state.
So, you could turn on threading (View -> Sort By -> Threaded). Then, you'd probably expand the threads (View -> Threads -> Expand All Threads). So far, so good. But, if you switch to another folder and come back to the original one, the threads won't be expanded anymore.
This is bug 64426 and you can vote for it if you like (of course, you'll need a free Bugzilla account to vote). You may need to copy-n-paste the links into your URL bar, as Bugzilla doesn't accept referrerrs from Slashdot.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
You can do a Browser only installation right now if you want, in fact you've been able to do so for quite some time, if not for ever.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
For email, try Pegasus Mail. You'll *never* go back to Messenger.
The one bad thing about Pegasus Mail is that it's tied to a
specific platform (Windows), so if you're on another platform
or anticipate moving to another platform you have to settle for
less in the mailreader department. Or you can use Gnus, but it
has a big learning curve.
Usenet is trickier. The only usenet client I've found so far that's
any good whatsoever is Gnus, and it's a long way from perfect. (It
has a huge learning curve, plus some substantial problems in the
offline-reading department, and it's not properly multithreaded.)
You could try Agent; it's arguably better than Messenger, but that's
not saying a great deal.
Regarding Mozilla, the Navigator component is without question
*way* better than the Messenger component. However, with the
split for 1.5, Navigator is being set aside in favour of the
Firebird browser (formerly Phoenix), which while not altogether
bad is not yet up to the level of Navigator, feature-wise. (It
is smaller, though, and so performs better on older systems.)
After 1.4, I don't expect another good solid release until at
least 1.6 for the browser, probably more like 1.7 -- and I don't
expect the Thunderbird project to produce anything that resembles
a usable mail/news reader 2-5 years. Note, however, that I am
using higher standards here than most people do; email is important
to me and I expect a great deal from my mailreader. If you consider
Eudora and Outlook and the current Messenger to all be perfectly
wonderful, then Thunderbird may reach that level a good deal sooner
than the timeframe I'm predicting (say, 1.7 maybe).
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Oh .. time bugs will happen much sooner then that.
Unix timestamp roll over
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
There are computers in England?
:)
Seriously, though, to answer the original questions: Mozilla is nothing like Netscape 4.7. Early Netscape browsers were some of the biggest crimes against HTML ever seen. Mozilla, on the other hand, is considerably better-written and far more standards compliant. Sometimes too standards compliant for its own good, in fact, since some sites that rely on IE broken features or extensions to work won't give the same results under Mozilla. There are also an irritating few sites that will just refuse to serve pages to anyone not using IE. I figure if they can do without my custom, I can do without their services.
The overall browsing experience in Mozilla (particularly Mozilla Firebird, IMO) is considerably better than that in Internet Explorer in my experience. Plenty of extra (useful) features that IE shows no signs of including, such as tabbed browsing. And it's free - other than the hefty bandwidth charge to download it.
If you can get hold of a copy while you're in England, do so. Hopefully you'll be converted before you go home. Otherwise, put it at the top of your to-download list when you get back home.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Not to mention the major burst of insanity that surrounded the removal of MNG/JNG support, two perfectly useful new formats.
0
Mind-boggling Bugzilla discussion of this is here - http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19528
--riney
I'm hoping there'll be an RPM of the official 1.4 release. But rpmfind.net lists of a few RawHide Mozilla-1.4 RPMs that work just fine on a RH 9 box. I haven't been able to determine just which "official" Mozilla build they are, but they have the nice antialiasing that I've come to enjoy from the GTK2-linked builds.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
Witness the recent Taco IRC interview where his response to "when will Slashdot validate at the W3c" was "Whatever. Next."
The only reason to use tabular layout (like Slashdot does) is to make things look good in Internet Explorer.
Switching to pure CSS (as the W3C recommends) saves bandwidth (as all of the formatting and layout information can be stored in a separate, cacheable file), gives you the freedom to create far more interesting and visually powerful designs, and makes the page accessible.
Slashdot should take a hint from Wired's excellent example and move into the new millenium.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
Mozilla identifies itself with "Gecko" in the user-agent string.
that's not the case for 1.4. MNG/JNG has been removed from the trunk (pre-1.5alpha builds), but it is still in 1.4RC2 and will appear in Mozilla 1.4.
Actually the support to use Windows' built-in NTLM function was added in RC1, not RC2. I am currently blissfully using Mozilla 1.4RC1 at work now through the silly Microsoft proxy thanks to this NTLM support. Previously, I was forced to use MSIE since nothing else would work!
Most of those things in the release notes are things that were added in earlier 1.4a/b/rc1 releases. NTLM, overhauled bookmarks, composer dynamic resizing, smooth scrolling and numerous others were in previous release notes too.
What's so hard about grepping for /\) Gecko\// ? It's way easier than, say, bowling for dollars.
See the RPM HOWTO at rpm.org for instructions on how to build your own RPM. It's really not hard. Or just use the supplied installer. Having mozilla as a non-rpm package is not the end of the world.
\
The perception that running stuff seperately is going to be some magic panacea is wrong. At the end of the day you will have subsets of Mozilla running in their own process space instead of the whole lot in one. Aside from some potential stability improvements (not that Moz is bad now), the effort is more to facilitate a UI rewrite than to fix any fundamental bustage. There is also a downside that you might lose integration that some people appreciate such as a unified pref dialog, a single profile, being able to open a tab in the browser from a link in an email and so on.
The UI would definitely benefit from simplification it has to be said, but the suite has to come out the other side of this process as functional as it went in, and that also includes ensuring stuff like the editor and other less visible parts (e.g. JS debugger, DOM inspector) are not left behind in the process.
Unless it has been implemented recently (which I believe it has not), there is still an useful component in Netscape that Mozilla lacks :
A spell checker.
As a bugzilla member who's worked on a lot of evangelism bugs, I can tell you that the problem is 99% likely to be bad DHTML on your site. Please post the URL here, or submit it to Bugzilla for investigation.
BTW, the exact symptoms you describe are often seen in HierMenus 4.0, due to non-compliant CSS-P. If your site uses HierMenus, updating to v4.2 or higher will fix the problem.
1. Branding. Netscape is far better known than Mozilla.
2. Some features (AIM integration for instance)
3. Disabling debugfeatures. The standard Mozilla distribution include test-menus. It is not really meant for end-users, though distributors usually do this with Mozilla as well.
Say what you want about Bank of America, but their online banking works great with Netscape/Mozilla. I think WAMU works o.k. too. Is there a website out there that lists IE only companies/services? A list like that would definitely bring this problem into the open and possibly shame companies into cross-platform development.
You can download a spellchecker for Mozilla here;
:-).
http://spellchecker.mozdev.org/
It also includes links to non - american english dictionaries, I have been using the UK english one with some builds very happily.
The version for Mozilla 1.4 Beta is already there. I use Mozilla as my only mail client at work and have been using this for over a year without any major problems. If only it could test spelling in input boxes, I could even spell check my slashdot comments
Yes you can, just open about:config and change it.
Oh, sorry... it's not simple to do... too bad. Firebird's preferences dialog is simple for a reason, and if you want to do more advanced things then you're a more advanced user and can be bothered to figure it out.
One main feature: the name "Netscape". It's still widely recognized, and ordinary non-techies are more likely to try it than some crazy lizard thing.
But for the purposes of anyone with at least the technical knowledge of a Slashdot reader (yes, this is a very low bar I'm setting), Mozilla is a better choice.Am i the only one using mozilla mail? I love the spam filter, and after a few tweaking, i can block most of the crap that comes to my inbox.
I recently tried the email standalone mozilla thunderbird (aka minotaur) and wasnÂt impressed. Lacks multiple accounts, no bayes spam filter and lots of other nice things found on mozilla mail that are simply not there yet on thunderbird.
I hope that they get the thunderbird up to the level of mozilla mail before going thunderbird only.
I love mozilla firebird, and hopefully thunderbird will follow the same path as its browser counterpart.
For those who don't know, Adobe used unfrozen APIs, which Mozilla then scrapped entirely, rendering their work useless. Unsurprisingly, they never updated it.
So, if you want SVG in Mozilla, you need to hack on the Moz native support, which has more potential anyway. Be warned, it's a LARGE spec :( I'm not really sure what has been happening on it lately, but iirc there have not been any updates for a long time now.
Where does it say that? I read the entire interview just now, and don't remember anybody asking that question, and I can't find the words "valid" nor "w3c" in the page. Please tell me I'm being blind and show me the relevant quote.
Just to be silly, I opened the Bugzilla link; 3 of them are already fixed, and a 4th is a licensing issue if you link statically against gcc libstfc++ (which I don't think is the default).
Of the remaining bugs, one is about the status bar, which doesn't seem to be a blocker, and the other two remaining are mem leaks which I would consider blockers. That just leaves two big ones. They probably have time to get thse and so they're probably good for 1.4.
So does Safari.
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/60 (like Gecko) Safari/60
The Wired site loads and renders slowly, does wierd things when sized very small, and is much heavier on markup than slashdot (when balanced agasint the larger size of a slashdot page).
I agree that using tables for layout is a crappy way of doing things. On the other hand, it's well known and commonly supported (all modern browsers render tables more or less identically, the same cannot be said for CSS markup, especially level 2), but CSS layout semantics are crappy, overly verbose, and lend themselves to pixel-width positioning. Try reproducing all the built in features of table layout in CSS - it's very difficult. And your newly marked up pages will be noticably heavier than the table layout.
I thought 1.4rc2 still had support. It's just the 1.5 nightlies that don't.
Has anyone else noticed that the smooth scrolling [1] doesn't really scroll that smooth? For example, if you do a "pg up" or "pg dn" in a window with general.smoothScroll set to "true" it does a wacky herky-jerky page up/down scroll. weird.
[1] To enable smoot scrolling, enter "about:config" into the location bar, then right click anywhere and choose new -> boolean. Then enter "general.smoothScroll" (exactly) and set it to "true". To disable, set it to "false".
"WHo's to say IE is correct in their implementation?"
The market. They'd be more or less right, too. IE's not only good at rendering HTML, but it's also very fault resistant. I've had HTML in both Netscape and Opera cause the scrollbars to never appear. Can't say I've ever had that with IE.
"No browser follows the specs exactly (last I heard, Mozilla was closest), and that is a damn shame."
That's debatable. Who says the spec was correct in the first place? As people use the HTML, ideas about how it should be used evolve. For example, tables have a border feature. In Netscape (4 I think, it's been a while since I've done HTML) you can't set the color of the borders. You always get that ugly gray embossed table. Ie was quite happy to accept a hex code to draw the table with that color. The result? Instead of assigning a color value to the border, you had to set the table background color to what you want the border to be, and then set each cell to have a bg color that you want the foreground to be. That's pretty convoluted. It's possible that either Netscape was pretty dumb about it, or they were following WC3s flawed spec. To be honest, I don't know. The point is I don't think that following the spec is necessarily the holy grail of browser rendering. The code just plain needs to be usable. (I do agree, though, that a standard should evolve and everybody should follow it. That doesn't necessarily mean it's WC3's.)
"I wish I could earn a living as a lazy web designer, toying with Photoshop and Dreamweaver all day and not even lifting a finger as to do some actual work, like checking cross-platform or at least cross-browser compatability."
1.) Who says it's laziness? When you're a web-develoiper, you have unreasonable deadlines to get things done. My company in particular thought it took a week to design, build, and publish an entire website. The idea of spending time to test it on various platforms was ludicrous. "Just make it work in Netscape and IE, don't worry about anything else." Don't fault me for my boss's pointy-haired decisions.
2.) I can't speak for Dreamweaver, but FrontPage made it real easy to test your pages in various browsers. It had a 'preview in browser' mode that would give you a dropdown of all the browsers you had installed or setup on your machine, then it'd send the page to it. Then, it'd even ask you what window size you wanted to try it at. Want to test your site at 800 by 600? No problemo. I would assume that Dreamweaver did all that as well.
I probably wouldn't ordinarily have responded to that comment, but I've had that Photoshop/FrontPage 'lazy job'. And it's anything but lazy. You try coming up with an artistic design for a site and then hacking HTML to make it work. HTML is a lousy markup standard for doing artsy sites. You'd be surprised at the pixel-magic we've had to do.
Sure, just ask Reagan and the 13,000 FAA employees that he fired.
Check out www.crazybrowser.com for a tabbed browser that uses IE to render html. It looks and feels like IE only having tabs. Yay! It's only 600k IIRC.
Interesting that the last great, stable RH is considered too "old" for mozilla...
Mozilla stock builds should run fine on stock RH7.2 and higher, and earlier 7.x if you have glibc 2.2.4 or higher.
If our binaries don't run on your version of Linux then you may have to compile it yourself or get someone to compile for you.
--Asa
"Interesting that the last great, stable RH is considered too "old" for mozilla...
Or am I just overreacting? I like my 7.3 boxes, dammit."
Yeah, forced upgrades suck, don't they? Kinda amusing tho, usually MS is the butt of that comment.
You're not being forced to upgrade anything. The mozilla.org binaries should work on stock RH7.2 and higher, and earlier 7.x if you have glibc 2.2.4 or higher. If you don't want to upgrade glibc or your OS, then feel free to compile Mozilla yourself or wait for your distro or someone else to make a build that works there.
--Asa
What if Java 1.4.2 isn't ready soon enough.
You have several choices. Use Sun's 1.4.2 beta. Wait until Sun 1.4.2 final is released. Use Blackdown's plug-in compiled with GCC 3.2 (the Sun 1.4.2 requirement is only a new compiler requirement.) Compile Mozilla yourself with an older compiler so it works with an older Java. Get someone else to compile Mozilla for you.
--Asa