Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Mom Meets Linux - A Lindows 4.0 Review

Posted by michael on from the any-key dept.

JimLynch writes "We just put up the first review of Lindows 4.0, with a twist. I actually gave it to my Mom to see if she could use it. Find out if Lindows 4.0 passed the "Mom Test.""

115 of 565 comments (clear)

  1. a new slogan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Linux: Nerd tested, Mom approved.

    1. Re:a new slogan by mikeee · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, that would be

      Mom tested, nerd approved.

    2. Re:a new slogan by macdaddy357 · · Score: 3, Funny

      "This sucks! Linux is supposed to be complicated and user hostile so that only the techno-elite can even approach it! Any distro that doesn't confuse 999 of every 1000 who attempt to use it isn't the real thing! I hate it! I hate it! I hate it! This is an OS for idiots." Does that rant sound stupid? It's the same one dosheads used when Apple introduced Macintosh in 1984. Now, every OS uses a mac-like GUI. Will Lindows be the next big thing?

      --
      How ya like dat?
    3. Re:a new slogan by GreyPoopon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Depends if he still lives at home.

      If he's a *true* nerd, isn't that a given?

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    4. Re:a new slogan by jonadab · · Score: 2, Funny

      > "This sucks! Linux is supposed to be complicated and user
      > hostile so that only the techno-elite can even approach it!

      No, no, that's BSD ;-)

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  2. Yeah, so did I by Nix0n · · Score: 4, Funny

    I actually gave it to my Mom

    I gave it to your mom last night, as well.

  3. mother test by noah_fense · · Score: 5, Funny

    my mother can't stay awake for a whole movie, let alone try and learn a "new" OS

    1. Re:mother test by Steve+G+Swine · · Score: 4, Funny
      my mother can't stay awake for a whole movie, let alone try and learn a "new" OS
      Oh, you'd be surprised what your mom can learn - she surprised me!

      (This has been a generic "your mama" joke. Resemblance to any actual mom, living or dead, is purely coincidental.)
      --
      "Consider yourself a member of a virtual corporation with Mr. Torvalds as your Chief Executive Officer." - Linux Advocac
    2. Re:mother test by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well his 'mom test' was whether or not his mom could open up OpenOffice and type a document. Amazing.

    3. Re:mother test by runcible · · Score: 2, Funny

      Y'know, I only really clicked through to the comments on this article for the mom jokes...and while that one was damn good, they are otherwise quite sparse. It can't just be me who considers the mom joke to be the height of humor...Can it?...Anyone?

      --
      remember the wisdom of Mahatma Gandhi: If enough peasants die horribly, someone will probably notice
    4. Re:mother test by Transient0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously...

      The 'Mom Test' is a serious benchmark; it's name is not to be invoked lightly. The Mom Test involves nothing less than installing an OS on your mom's home desktop and seeing if she can figure out how to do all the things she would normally do with MS-Windows. If, after a month or so, your mom hasn't called you and demanded that you return her to Microsoft-Land, then (and only then) can the OS be said to have passed the 'Mom Test'.

      --
      lysergically yours
    5. Re:mother test by goodhell · · Score: 2, Funny

      The Mom Test involves nothing less than installing an OS on your mom's home desktop and seeing if she can figure out how to do all the things she would normally do with MS-Windows

      If that involves calling me up asking what this blue screen means...

    6. Re:mother test by Eil · · Score: 2, Funny


      It can't just be me who considers the mom joke to be the height of humor...Can it?...Anyone?

      Mom jokes. Height of humor. Right, then. Now if you'll just stand there for a moment, this will be painless for the both of us.

      [A gunshot strikes the damp night and its echos fade quickly.]

      Move along folks, nothing to see here.

  4. My mom... by i.r.id10t · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... has been using computers damm near 15 years. She still calls me occasionally for a reminder on how to get a console window in Win2k (can't call it a DOS window can I?) so she can copy files to her floppy drive from c:\docs

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    1. Re:My mom... by marauder404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think that's exactly the problem that the poster was trying to show: people use computers in ways that designers may not anticipate. Even though Lindows looks a lot like Windows and has many equivalent applications, it may not pass usability tests like this, where people are so ingrained in their habits and only learn one way to do things and they stick with it. Sometimes, they learn the process and not the concept, so a small change in the interface may mean big changes for the user. In this case, the mom, may not be able to use Lindows without a learning curve.

    2. Re:My mom... by dpilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      has been running Linux for several years now. I've tweaked and tuned it specifically for her needs.

      She still has problems, but I suspect they're mostly pilot error. At the moment, she has a 73MB inbox, and Mozilla mail seems to be having some trouble with it. I'm not sure how you make a system proof against stuff like this. I've got it set to email the logfiles to me every week, and a few cron jobs to check the health (disk space, temperature, voltages, etc) and log that on a regular basis. I reset her Mozilla preferences every login, (in .Xclients) but there are just some things I can't do.

      Supporting a senior citizen on a computer from a distance can be tough. My cousin (who lives in town, and is a Win-fan) put her on Windows for a while, when she was having hardware problems, and she had an even worse time. It's hard to know how to do best, but the ability to ssh in certainly helps.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    3. Re:My mom... by jridley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A surprising amount of the time, the command prompt is a HELL of a lot faster. Say I want to copy all the MP3 files from a directory to a floppy, and they're mixed with a bunch of other files. In Windows Explorer, there's no way to sort by extension. At the prompt: "copy *.mp3 a:"

      I don't know how many times at work I've watched people spend 5 or more minutes going slowly through all the files in Windows Explorer, reading every filename, ctrl-click selecting all the *.blah files, so they can then drag. A couple of times, I've said "You want to see an easier way?" and start/run/cmd, cd \blah, copy *.blah d:\temp. There. 15 seconds, we're done. .... blank look.... oh, that's too hard.

      Then watch someone trying to navigate to my computer on the network....Network Neighborhood....Microsoft Windows Network....Company Domain.....Workgroup....."Wait, what workgroup are you in?....back out....other workgroup....Ah, there's (my initials).

      "So next time, why not click start/run, and type \\(my initials) and you won't have to worry about what workgroup or domain or whatever I'm in?" ..... oh, that's too hard.....

      YARGH! I swear, people WANT to be stupid. Either that or they think they can catch a disease from the keyboard and not the mouse.

      I've given up.

    4. Re:My mom... by jdew · · Score: 2, Informative

      put explorer it in detail view
      click on the column 'file type'
      scroll down the list to see all the mp3s now clumped together.
      select the clump of mp3s and drag them somewhere :P

    5. Re:My mom... by tuzzer · · Score: 2, Informative

      In Windows Explorer, there's no way to sort by extension.
      Well, you can sort by "Type" which is mostly the same. Also, you could use 'Search for Files or Folders', search for "*.mp3", (using a subdirectory search if you like), select all files with 'ctrl-a' and drag them to the floppy. Still a lot easier than the ctrl-click method you describe and it might be less "alien" for a lot of users.
      Mind you, I always use the command prompt myself ;-)

      --

      bash$ less COPYING
      bash$ more CREDITS
    6. Re:My mom... by Thumpnugget · · Score: 2, Insightful

      YARGH! I swear, people WANT to be stupid. Either that or they think they can catch a disease from the keyboard and not the mouse.

      No, what people want is to be lazy. Yes, I know, it's far more work to do all that clicking etc., but that's the way you see it.

      As the people who prefer to do all that laborious run-around probably see it, it's far more preferable than the laborious task of trying to remember arcane commands and the syntax and order of arguments. Don't even think about adding flags.

      I know that it seems so terribly obvious to you, but methinks you're a little more in-tune with common advanced computer concepts and maybe even know a little programming, yes? The kind of structured logic involved in using the command-line comes easy, yes? Well, it doesn't for other people, and muscle energy is cheap compared to brainpower.

      Plus, all that clicking and dragging gets them 5 minutes closer to quitting time without having to actually do any work. So I'm guessing that they really just want to be lazy, because I don't think anybody really wants to be perceived as stupid.

      As an aside, people don't seem to mind being 'selectively ignorant'. One of the most brilliant programmers I know, an old Unix hack from way back, has absolutely no idea how to hook up a hard drive or deal with any other aspect of hardware manipulation, and has no intention of ever learning. "That stuff is for sysadmins and support people" - go figure. :)

      --
      Free yourself. Everything else will follow.
    7. Re:My mom... by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In Windows Explorer, there's no way to sort by extension.

      funny... clicking on the view->details menu function and then clicking on the type tab sort's by extension for me.

      click on top boob.mp3 and shift-click on the last Zeeb.mp3 drag to Jaz drive/network drive/kazaa share and it's magically done.

      in fact I can do it faster than you can open a shell and type your command....

      I agree, most users are so brain-dead they smell bad, but you are just as mis-informed as they seem to be.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    8. Re:My mom... by rgsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You, my friend, are a genius.

      Do you realize there are now at least 5 responses telling you how to copy 'all of the *.mp3 files in a directory to a floppy'.

      I realize that the mp3 format may be used for things BESIDES individual songs ripped from CDs or downloaded, but the VAST majority of mp3 files are exactly this.

      So... back to the genius part - you just had some (presumably) computer gurus explain how to take a directory full of 3-4 meg (average) sized files, and copy them onto a floppy disk.

      LOL!!

      Oh, and to ensure I don't get a shitload of 'offtopic' mods, I'm typing this from my parent's machine... with a fresh copy of Lindows 4.0 installed... and they are already enjoying it.

    9. Re:My mom... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Amen brother. Why the hell can't you filter files by extension? I won't rant for long, but I loved using IRIX in the early 90s because all I had to do was type "*.blah" in the (what is now called the address bar) of the graphical file manager, and, wala, only those files would appear in the window. How hard is this to do? Not very. Why doesn't ANYONE do it? Because no one does it, and IRIX did not penetrate far enough (carefully avoiding a mom joke) for that feature to gain attention. Maybe Apple OSes let you do it, but if so I would think M$ would have adopted the feature. Oh well, I guess my computer is only as usefull as the applications let it be.

    10. Re:My mom... by Computer! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, relax.

      I just had to tech someone in our marketing department on how to put a fucking file in a fucking directory. Not on the command line. Not via ftp or WebDAV. A regular Windows file into a regular Windows directory.

      People who claim to know how to use Windows in fact do not. They know how to use certain Windows programs. They are program-centric, not file-centric. I want to feel sorry for them, until I realize that they put "Windows use" on their resume, which was a fucking lie. Now I can hate them with a clear conscience.

      Sorry for the rant, but it just happened 25 minutes ago.

      --
      If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
    11. Re:My mom... by ncc74656 · · Score: 2, Informative
      And god forbid you ever give her a digital camera. Prepare yourself for a barrage of emails with 10 meg bitmap attachments. I tried to teach my grandma how to at least save as jpeg (not even approaching the "resize" road), but we ended up with a zip compromise.

      1. Tell her to dump all her pix in one directory.
      2. Give her an icon to double-click that launches a shell script (install Cygwin, NetPBM, and the IJG JPEG tools) that resizes & optimizes everything in the previous directory and dump the results into a subdirectory...call the subdirectory "small."
      3. Tell her to only send pictures from the "small" directory.

      I set up Dad's computer this way...the large files from the digital camera get cut down to somewhere around 16-32K each, which is better for sending them out over a dial-up connection.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    12. Re:My mom... by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I want to feel sorry for them, until I realize that they put "Windows use" on their resume, which was a fucking lie. Now I can hate them with a clear conscience.

      Depending on their generation, that really might not be so bad. I think we lose sight of just how scared the majority of people are of computers. I was listening to a radio show the other day, and on it a teacher was in the middle of a distance learning class about teaching technology to younger kids. The teacher was actually a little confused by the idea of hitting links to get to the next lesson, and I think that's really the norm rather than the exception for some generations right now. For them, having learned what button to press in order to get out of a window does in fact mean they know how to use windows.

      Now, if someone got a job instead of me by saying they had ten years of experience with C#, then I'd be rather annoyed at resume shanagins.

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
    13. Re:My mom... by Tyreth · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That is exactly spot on. My mother does the same thing - has trouble remembering th concepts, and only remembering the process.

      But when you said it today, it reminded me of the slashdot article a few days back about autistic savants. Remember the story said their problem was that they only recalled the exact scene. If the shadows moved then they felt disoriented like it was a new place. Whereas for most people we can pick up concepts that allow us to comprehend it as being the same location.

      I wonder why this is, that with computer people have trouble learning the concepts at all? Why can't they learn the principles as they do for everything else in life? Maybe it's just time and practice, for them to realise that "File->Save As" is present in multiple applications, not just the one. Maybe it's the fault of inconsistent UI design - so that on occasion where it's different they notice and assume that no application is the same.

    14. Re:My mom... by orius_khan · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You, my friend, are a genius.

      Do you realize there are now at least 5 responses telling you how to copy 'all of the *.mp3 files in a directory to a floppy'.

      Do YOU realize the slight difference in wording between what he said and what all of those other responses are chastizing him for?

      HE said "there's no way to sort by extension". All of the replies calling him an idiot are telling him how to "sort by 'Type'". In most cases, "file type" is unique enough that each extension has it's own file type. However, the "file type" varies depending on what software you've installed on your computer that decides to 'claim' those extensions.

      If the software decides to just give multiple extensions the same file type name, you end up with multiple filename extensions that are sorted as though they are identical to each other. So in the example he gave: if you'd installed Winamp (or any number of those crap media player packages that many OEMs put on their computers before they ship them), then you COULD have multiple extensions including .mp3 that all appear to be "Winamp media file". (or whatever)

      So if you have a folder with lots of files in it, ending in .mp3, .mod, .669, .s3m, .voc, etc., they're all the same type of file as far as Windows Explorer is concerned, so clicking on the "Type" column won't do jack. The files will remain sorted by Filename. This is not just for sound files, it can happen for any extension.

      There ARE ways of getting a list of files that match a certain extension from within the GUI (like other people have pointed out, using the Search/Find tool), but what he actually said was correct, and does not deserve your sarcastic bashing. Your post should not have been modded 'offtopic', but rather 'flamebait'.

      Most people that don't want to learn console commands aren't going to want to learn "WindowsKey+F, copy current folder location, paste in 'Look in' box, type file extension in 'Named' box, click 'Find Now' button, select all" either.
      --
      Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all the unhappy people.
  5. He failed to mention that... by 2names · · Score: 4, Funny

    his mom is an electrical engineer, so of course she won't be able to understand Lindows...

    --
    "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    1. Re:He failed to mention that... by M.C.+Hampster · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey it takes to E's to be a GEEK

      And it takes a Slashdot poster to misspell the word "two".

      --
      Forget the whales - save the babies.
    2. Re:He failed to mention that... by sonny317 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It *also* takes EE's to have:

      B-E-E-R
      W-E-E-D
      Cowboy N-E-E-L

      Doh! Too much of the first two!

  6. I agree generally, a few additions... by numbski · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While I'm a mac user now (was windows, then linux, then OS X) I'd like to see a few more things done to round it out:

    Easy VPN setup (mentioned in the article already, but very important..PPTP and IPSec)

    Start the user off as a user with sudo privelages, but not as root...touchy I know for user privs, and it starts off a whole load of but "it's not important" but "oh yes it is" all over the place. OSX manages it nicely, I see no reason why Linux can't do the same.

    Bundle an office client. It's KDE...KOffice isn't there by default? ???

    I think that's about it. Other than of course throwing in a dock and putty a happy mac face on it. :P

    --

    Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    1. Re:I agree generally, a few additions... by BigBir3d · · Score: 2, Informative

      As the article mentions, you can use apt for free.

      No, I don't use Lindows.

  7. The one Mom-Test failure by aridhol · · Score: 4, Insightful
    They indicated only one Mom-Test failure: Mom (in her role as an average user) looked for MS Office. To me, this is an example of Linux's biggest problem on the desktop: mindshare. Until we can convince people that there's more out there than Microsoft, it won't matter how friendly we can make Linux.

    Linux needs advertising in the popular media. Sure, I can see Linux ads in computer magazines; however, when I turn my TV on, I see ads about how much money you can save by switching to .NET. We need advertising to gain the mindshare we need to become popular. A friendly desktop is a good start; now we have something that we can advertise. Now we need to get the word out there.

    --
    I can't say that I don't give a fuck. I've just run out of fuck to give.
    1. Re:The one Mom-Test failure by GMontag · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your statement is even less shocking than it sounds and more on point than it looks.

      A few years ago I was contemplating a new ISP, so I called several in the DC area (Erol's, ATT, etc.) and asked the "order takers" if their systems supported UNIX and/or Linux. ALL BUT ONE asked "What version of Windows are you running?", then they asked if I was running a Mac when I said "no, not Windows, UNIX". (no, I did not go into satire mode and say "X Windows" either :-)

      The one that understood right away? AOL and they would not "guarantee compatibility between their system and emulators or 'non-standard' methods".

      Go figure.

      --
      Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
    2. Re:The one Mom-Test failure by leifm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the biggest problem Linux would have as far as mass desktop acceptance would be with what I would call TechTV geeks. Those wannabe geeks that think if they just keep buying weird crap for their machine it'll make them know what the hell they are doing eventually. Those people won't use Linux a) because it removes them from what they think they know, and b) because their USB2 video capture toaster oven doesn't have drivers on Linux.

      --

      "Windows Me offers tremendous reliability and stability improvements..." -- Paul Thurott
    3. Re:The one Mom-Test failure by *weasel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      didn't the mindshare concept die with the dot com'ies?

      i mean, counting eyeballs, mindshare ... weren't these things that marketroids just sold us when we had money and no idea where to put it, and so those best at marketing directed us to nice approachable terms that reflected the 'newness' of the market, and inevitably led back to lining their pockets with our money?

      'mom' failing to find a way to write a document seems to me to be a failure of the program-centric interface - rather than something 'task-centric'.

      why didn't they just have a 'compose' button or something on the interface?
      eg compose->[email | IM | local document | code]
      eg browse->[my documents | internet | network]
      and then launch an app accordingly. WHAM! mindshare problem solved.

      'mom' didn't even immediately assume there was a 'start' button if you notice. which should tell you that she doesn't immediately assume that's how desktops should work. she wanted/needed to write a document, and when she discovered lindows 'L' was apparently set up to mimic the windows 'start' she -then- figured that Office must have been there somewhere. because it was trying to be just like her trusty old windows box.

      don't fall into the 'mindshare' trap. windows is most vulnerable -because- it takes experience and training to know how to use it and predict how new apps/features should behave.

      mindshare indicates the problem is insurmountable marketing challenges (education and exposure)- and if you'll notice, the only solution to the 'mindshare' is ... marketing. rather like shamans of old, creating the boogeyman so they can be the savior.

      --
      // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    4. Re:The one Mom-Test failure by Artemis+P.+Fonswick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No...what you need is an innovative desktop environment. You can put all the ads you want on TV, but it's not going to make a damn difference. Mom is never going to care about Linux. Mom has absolutely no reason (and never will have a reason) to switch over. Mom wants to read email and write documents, and she doesn't care how much it costs. The people you need to win over are people like me (and trust me, there are a lot like me). Advanced computer users who rely on their machines to get them through the day. I don't care about fighting over what suX0rz and what kicks ass...I do not choose my OS to conform to some image. I'm perfectly content with Windows...it does everything I need without hassle and I could care less what anyone thinks about that. I've tried loads of desktop flavors for Linux...nothing caught my attention or made my daily routine any easier. BUT Apple almost had me with OSX, because of their desktop enivironment. (Unfortunately after using OSX for a month straight I realized it was still too tedious for my tastes)

      A computer is a tool. It helps me get things done. I'm naturally going to use the most efficient tool I can find. If you can find a way to increase my efficiency instead of just emulating the Windows environment and adding some fancy right-click menu, then you've got yourself a convert.

      --


      Kudos to you, my good man.
    5. Re:The one Mom-Test failure by bheerssen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A computer is a tool. It helps me get things done. I'm naturally going to use the most efficient tool I can find.

      That right there is the difference between a geek and a normal computer user, no matter how experienced. To me, a computer is nothing short of the world's greatest puzzle. It's to be toyed and tinkered with. If my tinkering breaks it, that's wonderful because I then have the opportunity to fix it. You can't fix what ain't broke, and where's the fun if it isn't broken in some way?

      But I understand that most people are not that way, and that's why Linux is so cool. It can be whatever you want it to be: a super easy desktop, a super powerful desktop, a server, an embedded OS - all in the same kernel, but with dfferent wrappers.

      Kudos to Lindows for trying to bring Linux to the inexperienced masses.

      --
      (Score: -1, Stupid)
    6. Re:The one Mom-Test failure by 13Echo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My mom doesn't talk about computers very frequently, but she brought something up a few days ago.

      Mom: "I love that free office program that you put on my computer!"

      Me: "OpenOffice?"

      Mom: "Yeah. I was using it today. I can't believe that it's free."

      Before that, she was using MS Works. She's not the kind of person that wants to spend a lot of money on new software, so I suggested OpenOffice. OpenOffice meets her needs very well, as far as I can tell. People just need a little coaching at times. You can convince them that there is more out there than Microsoft, but you need to take it one step at a time with people that aren't familiar with things beyond AOL and MS Office.

      Little things like this can make a difference. A guy I work with is also now using OpenOffice (as of last week), and a few other people are fanatical of MozillaFirebird. They love the fact that it's lean, fast, not prone to trojan EXEs, and is pop-up proof.

      Not everyone should make the switch to Linux. It doesn't suit everyone's needs... Yet. But there are tons of other great Open Source programs out there that normal joes (and moms) are discovering every day. That is what is getting the word out.

  8. Before the Lindows bashing begins... by thoolihan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A thought for GNU/Linux users, BSD users, Mac users, and even MS users:

    The more the desktop market becomes fractured, them more open standards have to be. The more companies will be willing to release hardware documentation (let the community write drivers, instead of attempting to write for 8 OSes). So, even if you don't like this distro, consider that the 'the average home user' buying a distro like this might still be a good thing.

    -t

    --
    http://unmoldable.com W:"No one of consequence" I:"I must know" W:"Get used to disappointment"
    1. Re:Before the Lindows bashing begins... by glesga_kiss · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Buying the Distro is one thing, however upgrading to it is another.

      If "your momma" (sorry!) wanted to keep all her favourites, e-mail address and documents, there is no way that she'd be able to migrate between the two systems. It's relatively easy if you know how, but until Lindows can do this, they are only really viable as an OS for a new PC.

      The next step for Lindows would be a disk that you put in a Windows PC that does some trickery to store your set up somewhere, install Lindows, then restore it.

    2. Re:Before the Lindows bashing begins... by deadsaijinx* · · Score: 2, Interesting

      but lindows is one of the last distros i'd set up for my parents. They charge to download software, that's not what i'm looking for in a nice learning package to give to my folks. My mom is able to operate Mandrake (after i had configed it) as easily as she can run windows (which i also configed). Lindows is still a very rude company in my mind, and I won't support them.

      --
      YOU SUCK BALLS!
    3. Re:Before the Lindows bashing begins... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If "your momma" (sorry!) wanted to keep all her favourites, e-mail address and documents, there is no way that she'd be able to migrate between the two systems

      Huh? only windows has this problem... linux does not.

      Hell I can wipe my redhat or slackware or whatever I want this week and reinstall and magically my desktop for gnome and all my mozilla favorites, emails, and documents are there...

      it's called being smart and making /home on a different partition or drive.

      backing up a user completely is 100000% effortless under linux... it is a major pain in the ass that usually don't work in windows.

      until windows developers pull their heads out of their asses and NOT ALLOW users to put files anywhere but their home directory as default out of the box, and make it easy to migrate user 3256897 from one laptop to another without the ownership/permissions hell and that bulls**T that is the registry, windows will be very far behind linux in that aspect.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  9. Umm... by twifkak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry, but in my case, Windows doesn't even pass the "Mom test."

    --
    I know you were joking, but I want my Karma, so I'm going to reiterate your post in a serious tone.
    1. Re:Umm... by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 3, Funny

      My mother used to run VMS 'for fun'. I don't think I would dare show her Lindows and ask her what she thinks, she might cut my head off and feed it to the dog before catapulting my decapitated body into Michael Robertson's back garden.

      --
      Beep beep.
  10. 4.0? by jas79 · · Score: 2

    Did they went through 4 major versions in one year?

    I hope that they are planing to slow down when the reach the same version as red hat.

  11. Mom Meets Linux, by T40+Dude · · Score: 4, Funny

    but can I meet your Mom ??

  12. What a coincidence! by L.+VeGas · · Score: 2, Funny

    I actually gave it to my Mom

    I gave it to your Mom, too!

    --
    Best Windows Freeware
  13. I tried... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Me: Mom, try Lindows 4.0
    Mom: what's that
    Me: New OS
    Mom: new what?
    Me: New operating system just like wind...
    Mom: ZZZZZZZZZZZ

    1. Re:I tried... by kurosawdust · · Score: 2, Funny

      Up until the "ZZZZ" part, I was thinking you had enlisted the emacs psychiatrist as some kind of a surrogate mom. Now I realize that you probably just have a really buggy version of emacs.

  14. Lindows updating proceedures... by Akardam · · Score: 3, Funny

    Lindows.com is also focusing on lower system maintenance with a Zero Maintenance Initiative â" which makes it possible for the user to upgrade the OS, apps or drives with one click.

    I see how this could be nice. Whenever I upgrade drives (hard, optical, floppy, or otherwise), it's a 5 or 6 click process... which is precicely the amount of times the screw falls off the end of the screwdriver and dissapears somewhere in the case with a metallic click, to be heard rattling around just waiting to short something.

    - Akky

    P.S. For the brain dead, yes, I presume that they meant drivers.

  15. If this guy's mom is like my mom... by foxtrot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    his patience is to be commended.

    My mom, about a decade ago, took a class on Word Perfect. She learned what all those F-keys do, which is really useful since nobody seems to use Word Perfect anymore Alas, she brought home one piece of information that is useful for pretty much anything having to do with computers, and only one such piece of information:

    "Read the whole screen".

    I never realized how much stuff I just scan through when I do something on a computer. Like, when you're installing something, it may note "This action will consume 100 megabytes of space on your hard disk drive and will take a few minutes. Continue? [Back] [OK]": My mother will specifically read the entire thing. She'll ponder on that hundred megabytes. She'll consider whether or not a storm is likely to show up in a few minutes. And as you know, no dialog box ever has that little text in it.

    I see "100 meg", "few minutes", instantly click [OK] and wander off for another Coke.

    My mother reads EULAs.

    I click [I Agree] while crossing my fingers with the other hand.

    And as such, it drives one or the other of us bonkers if I ever have to show Mom how to do something on the computer. Either she's frustrated 'cause she's not sure what's going on, even though I try to slow down, or I'm about to pull my hair out wondering why she just doesn't click something, ANYTHING, DAMMIT!!

    Ahem.

    Anyhow, whether or not Linux is ready for Mom, I'm not ready to try to teach Mom Linux.

    -JDF

    1. Re:If this guy's mom is like my mom... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't tell her about dmesg.

    2. Re:If this guy's mom is like my mom... by Jagasian · · Score: 2, Funny

      Someone needs to write a virus that DOS attacks people like the ones you mentioned. The attack would consist of opening up dialog boxes with long paragraphs with Ok, Cancel or Yes, No buttons on the bottom.

      Computer users that HAVE to read everything and ponder over each bit will be so overloaded their brains will crash.

    3. Re:If this guy's mom is like my mom... by dprice · · Score: 2, Funny

      Alas, she brought home one piece of information that is useful for pretty much anything having to do with computers, and only one such piece of information: "Read the whole screen".

      My mom reads everything on the computer literally. When her Windows machine became unstable (typical Windows rot), she kept getting the requester box with "This program has performed an illegal operation.". She refused to click the "OK", and she would turn off the power. She thought clicking "OK" was an admission of breaking the law. It makes sense from my mom's non-computer-literate perspective. Why does Microsoft use such poor wording? (I ask rhetorically)

      I'm always helping my mom use the computer for the most basic things. She really just wants to use email and browsing, but odd system behaviors and setup options keep spoiling her experience. She did switch to an iMac which did get rid of the system crashes, but even the Mac environment has things that are non-intuitive to my mom. She still is unclear about where windows go when they are covered with other windows. Maybe the new Mac "Expose" feature will help, but I shudder to think how a new OS environment might disrupt her understanding.

    4. Re:If this guy's mom is like my mom... by Mordibity · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ha! Actually, that's the exact opposite of what I used to tell my mother-in-law: "Read the Screen". 90% of her initial problems came from not reading anything the computer was trying to tell her!

      PC: Press the space bar to continue...
      Mom: What happened!? What do I do now?
      Me: Um, did you read the screen?
      Mom: Oh.
      Lather, rinse, repeat. ;-)

  16. What about the Dad test? by BinaryCodedDecimal · · Score: 5, Funny

    It passes if he hasn't managed to delete some critical files after using it for 2 hours.

    1. Re:What about the Dad test? by ceswiedler · · Score: 3, Funny

      The Kid Test. I remember when we got PC-Shell installed on our 286 DOS machine. It showed previously hidden files in c:\ like IO.SYS and IBMIO.SYS. I helpfully moved those into another folder.

      I'm wondering if there are any kids out there who do similar things with /boot/vmlinuz. Of course, they'd have to have root privileges...

    2. Re:What about the Dad test? by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But seriously, notice how the "mom test" joke totally depends on sexism to be funny? I mean, puuuulease, my mom has a PhD, and was coding FORTRAN before most slashdotters were born.

      --
      Find free books.
  17. dumbing down? by PaulK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The most glaring issue that I see, was the ability to run "apt-get," without a root password.

    Ok, so Lindows can replace Windows on the desktop at home, so that the average user can be productive.

    But have we really done ourselves any favors?

    It seems that we have done nothing more than create a windows "clone", with a brand new feature set of security problems.

    Do we really want to compete with microsoft at that level? They have far more experience in the insecurity realm than we do.
    They'll beat us to death with experience.

  18. Mindshare by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A friend just got back from an interview at NYU for grad school (MBA). For his job he reviews companies such as Red Hat. He told me when he ellaborated on what he writes about and mentioned Linux, the interview asked, "Isn't that the one with the cute little penguin?"

    There's very little marketing of the penguin to the general public. (Red Hat has their, well, red hat... IBM has just their logo and targets corporate users, etc.) Yet this non-techie person at NYU knew something of the mascot. With that and other stories I've been hearing I think Linux is slowly gaining some mindshare, even will little marketing.

    --
    Developers: We can use your help.
    1. Re:Mindshare by abe+ferlman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In Boston circa 2000, there were black and white penguin ads everywhere- I mean the red line trains were just about wallpapered with them, guerilla marketers painted them on the sidewalks, etc. IBM paid for those, and it was really cool.

      In fact, IBM is the only company I've ever seen advertise linux in a mainstream market. This makes sense- they are the only ones in a financial position to do so.

      --
      microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
    2. Re:Mindshare by Zork+the+Almighty · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Linux community really should try to push the penguin a little more. Something as simple as a mascot or logo really does help people who are unfamilar with your product. I bet they see the penguin, and think "I've heard something about this". It really helps to break the ice.

      --

      In Soviet America the banks rob you!
  19. Re:frightening by aborchers · · Score: 2, Interesting
    For Linux to maintain its place as the champion of server and desktop OSen, we must resist the temptation to dumb it down for ordinary "lusers."


    Sputtering nonsense. Linux is powerful enough and flexible enough to handle desktop and server applications. What is lost by making desktop variants available for less elite users?

    Or have I just been trolled?

    --
    Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
  20. XP Mom Test by ToadMan8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Shit, my mom doesn't pass the Windows XP mom test, she wouldn't stand a chance. Then again, I get confused on how to make programs run on a mac. Like that download to make them go thing is hard. Linux, you compile or unpack, easy enough. Windows you install. Apple, what.. this un-stuffing and copying around.... I don't understand how programs don't run with only one big file either. Come to think of it, when you screw up your configuration, how can you delete the .ini or .conf to start over and get the programming running.

    --
    I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
    1. Re:XP Mom Test by DarkFyre · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > my mom doesn't pass the Windows XP mom test

      You've got things all twisted around, but I don't blame you. Many people have this perception. Mom's not the one being tested, the OS is. The computer should be meeting the user's needs. If it does not, the failing is the result of the software. (All right, there are some users who will consistently be disappointed, at least for the forseeable future.)

      When people are unable to perform tasks in Windows the perceived fault is with them, and when people are unable to perform tasks with alternative software, the fault is with the software. This perception is one more thing that needs to change before Microsoft's dominance will fade. Advocates of Linux or other systems need to do two things, in this order:

      1) Encourage people to have higher expectations from their computer
      2) Meet those expectations

      Apple has been doing the second for a long time, but it's only with the new 'Switch' campaign that they're trying to address the first. We should all be cheering them on, because if they can do it, things will be better for everybody (even Microsoft users, assuming Microsoft picks up on point number 2).

  21. Hmmm.... by mykepredko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I feel like this "feature" is going to make or break Lindows. I can see there being a problem with updating that will screw up all the users and kill Lindows forever.

    Sadly, when Microsoft does this several times a year people just shrug and wait for the patch of the patch.

    I just don't know if Lindows will be able to survive if they don't implement the update process in any way less than perfect - they don't have the acceptance and power of the Redmond giant.

    myke

    --
    Mimetics Inc. Twitter
  22. Re:Of Course.... by twstdr00t · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't know about your Grandma's capabilities... but mine *is* running Lindows, and she is running 2.0.

    --

    ---------
    AlmostFreeLinux.com
  23. This Test seems a bit weak by Plug1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know that this test wasn't stiving to be scientific or anything, but it appears that he had his mom play with Lindows for a couple of hours. Wouldn't a better test be to have her use Lindows for a week or so totally replacing her normal windows machine? This would offer better insights into what typical users of Windows are looking for in an OS and how Lindows can better meet thier needs. Just my 2 cents

    1. Re:This Test seems a bit weak by delcielo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree.

      Last year, I converted our home pc to RedHat. I spent about 15 minutes showing my wife how to open Word documents with OpenOffice, and how to browse with Mozilla (which wasn't a big deal, since we'd been using it on Windows previously.)

      For a while I got minor questions about things she couldn't sort out on her own; but within a month, she was totally independent. Almost a year later, I'm considering asking her to let me change distros for the hell of it.

      She's not a power user by any means. And she's not very tech-saavy (once called me at work to ask how to shut off the fire alarm, which was blaring in the background. I told her "You don't. You call the Fire Department and they hose it down.") So I have a strong feeling that if she can do it anybody can.

      The catch is getting past the idea that it has to function exactly the way it does now. The only way to exactly duplicate what you're doing today, is to do exactly what you're doing today.

      --
      Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
    2. Re:This Test seems a bit weak by jmu1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's like the old coffee commercial with the nuns. "What they don't know is that Sister Methusela has switched their usual coffee with Brand Echs brand frozen, decaffenated, pre-creamed and sugared vile nastiness... let's see what happens!"

  24. Re:frightening by TopShelf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    yeesh, buddy, don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back so much...

    Usability and functionality don't have to be mutually exclusive, and there's nothing "elite" about a system that has such a usability barrier. Although, that might be a neat way to pawn off user requests - "oh, you don't need that mod, do you? You're such an elite user, you know..."

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
  25. Re:frightening by Squidgee · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I diagree.

    Due to the Open Source nature of Linux, it's very simple to be dumbed down. You can have "Dumbass Distro" and "Poweruser Distro". All the normal computer people buy Dumbass Distro, and it probably comes pre-installed (Lindows Boxen). All the people who feel limited by it (Err..) can go ahead and install the Poweruser Distro. Hey, and if you can't do that, then yer not ready.

  26. Re:ok, confusion here. by EricWright · · Score: 2, Informative

    A quick and dirty explanation is that linux is a kernel. Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Mandrake (and a few dozen more names I'll omit) are operating systems built on top of the linux kernel. These are linux distributions, so your first statement is correct.

  27. Debian Does Dallas? by heironymouscoward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Designed by Gurus, built by hackers, crashed by mothers?

    Domesticated Pengiuns?

    "The OS Your Mother Would Have Made You"

    "Linux and Apple Pie"

    "Linux, with extra chicken soup"

    sorry... the idea of a 'mom test' blew my mind. my mom (at 65) has been using computers for more than 20 years, and i don't think there is any proof that age is a barrier to using linux. how about 'tried lindows on people with a measured IQ of one hundred'.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
  28. Price... by Silvertre · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought companies couldn't charge for linux based software? Am I misunderstanding something or are they wrong charging $50 for a copy?

  29. Trouble brewing by Proaxiom · · Score: 4, Funny
    I hope there aren't too many tools that adopt this approach to testing.

    I can foresee shortly after the first "Mom-Approved Nmap" version hits the market, any web site containing pornography, Barney, or Martha Stewart will find itself under constant attack by a wave of vigilante 'Script Mommiez'.

    1. Re:Trouble brewing by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well Script Kiddies do have to come from somewhere...

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    2. Re:Trouble brewing by ncc74656 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Well Script Kiddies do have to come from somewhere...

      Do they? I thought they just appeared from nowhere, like mold on a loaf of old bread or toadstools in your lawn...

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    3. Re:Trouble brewing by taernim · · Score: 2, Funny

      Got Root? -- It's a good thing.

      Or...

      Tonight we'll be discussing how you can spice up a simple little root kit and make it not only h@x0r your enemies, but also make a festive screensaver that is both malicious AND fun...

      --
      "PC Load Letter? What the $@#% does that mean?!"
  30. Can we get Consumer Reports to give it another go? by buggered · · Score: 3, Informative

    After the thrashing that Consumer Reports gave the Lindows pc from WalMart.com in the latest issue, I hope they upgrade (one click?) to 4.0 and give it another go.

  31. Re:Of Course.... by Gothmolly · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your Grandma is running Lindows? What is she, some kind of cyborg?

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  32. I'm not convinced by Cereal+Box · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you read the article, you'll see that about two paragraphs are devoted to the "Mom Test" (which they conclude that she passed). Basically the "Mom Test" involved her watching a Lindows tutorial, clicking on the "start" menu, and launching OpenOffice. Color me unimpressed. Perhaps they should have extended the "Mom Test" to cover a week or two of normal usage. See how she reacts when she can't open those cute e-mail attachment programs (no, not VIRUSES) that her friends forward to each other. See how she reacts when she brings home the label-making software she bought that won't install under Linux. See how she reacts when the webcam she bought so she can send "video emails" to her family members won't work because Linux doesn't have drivers for it.

    Somehow, I think the results of the "Mom Test" will be a little different under those circumstances.

  33. I set my parents up on Linux...not Lindows by rindeee · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I set them up on Knoppix 3.2 (HD based install) with Synaptic for "point and click installs". They love it. They can install what they want when they want. They paid....ZERO. Besides, Knoppix is a much better and more "robust" desktop platform in my opinion. I have tried to like Lindows...but I hate it. Just my $.02

  34. Not much of a test by rjung2k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not much of a "Mom test," is it? I mean,all she did was boot it up, poke around the desktop, and eventually find the office suite. How about something a bit mor robust, like letting her use it for a week for everyday tasks without tech support?

    --

    --R.J.
    Electric-Escape.net

  35. 'Mom' as a resource - for how much longer? by Chordonblue · · Score: 2, Funny

    How many times do you think they'll be able to use 'mom' as a resource?

    "Hey?! Where's my big 'L'? I want to play Frozen Bubble!"

    "Sorry ma, we need you to preview this new version of Trustix."

    "But... But... There's no mouse pointer and the screen's all black!"

    "Adjust ma, adjust!"

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  36. Let Mom Tell It. by uberdave · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Perhaps you could get your mom to write up a review. What was she thinking? What parts she found hard. What parts she found easy.

    --
    "I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
  37. Re:ok, confusion here. by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 2, Informative

    Another quick: BSD is built on the Linux kernel too?

    No, all of the BSDs (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD) have their own, self made kernel. They're all spiritual descendents from the original BSD, which itself was a fork of the original UNIX and made significant improvements to it. They now each do things in sufficiently different ways that they all have their own kernel, though a lot of things are shared when they can be.

    In a way, your question isn't the right one; which BSD are you asking about? Unlike Linux, where Linux is just a kernel and the rest of the apps form whats called a distribution, the BSDs are a kernel and all the base things that make up an OS.

    Just to confuse you more. :)

  38. M0m 0wNz j00! by ktakki · · Score: 4, Funny

    My mother was getting fed up with BSODs and unexplained freezes and the like, so I suggested that she try Linux and brought over a Knoppix CD. She was pretty impressed with it, but she had a few questions.

    "Can I play Counter Strike on Linux?" she said.

    "Counter Strike? You play that?" I'd been laboring under the impression that she was a Freecell addict.

    "All the time. I love fraggin' n00bs."

    "Mom!"

    "And what about my pr0n? Can I use Linux to view it?"

    "This isn't happening." I felt an icy ball forming in my stomach, a feeling of nausea rising in my throat.

    "Don't be ghey. I have needs too, you know." She opened up her browser; the home page was set to goatse.cx! I shut my eyes and put my hands over my ears.

    "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA!" I felt as if my whole world was crashing down around me.

    So yeah, Linux might not be the best choice for my Mom. Also, if you play CS on a low-latency East Coast server, watch out for Mom. She likes to AWP wh0r3.

    k.

    --
    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
  39. Mom Tests Can Be Good by LVWolfman · · Score: 3, Funny

    A number of years ago, I had a teen customer in my computer store getting his laptop upgraded and OS/2 installed. His mother was sitting there rather bored with our "geek" talk and asked was was the difference between OS/2 and Windows.

    I simply handed her my laptop, loaded with OS/2 and the normal office apps, games, etc. and told her to try it herself. (Though she was a computer novice, she never asked any other questions.)

    A couple of hours later when we were finished with the upgrades, we asked her what she thought. Her summary was... "It's just like Windows, only easier." And then proceeded to show us the things that she found better/different and that she'd done.

    When any version of *nix can get that kind of reaction, it'll be a good home user competition for Windows.

    BTW, she and I eventually got married (perhaps she was tired of paying for her son's upgrades!) and every time her Windows machine crashes ("get's stupid" as she puts it)asks why she can't have her OS/2 back.

  40. Not A Valid Test by jmh_az · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Their test was biased: The mom in question already had a clue. They should have tried the test with my mom. Here's a typical "call for help":

    Mom: Hi. The power went off over here and now I can't get my computer to work.

    Me: Uhm, OK. Does it do anything at all?

    Mom: Well, the printer is on, and the screen says "Check connection".

    Me: Hmmm. Alright. Is everything plugged in?

    Mom: Yes, it looks like it. All the little doohickies are in the back of the computer.

    Me: (avoiding this until the last--it just can't be the cause) Is the computer turned on?

    Mom: I think so. There's something on the screen.

    Me: Uhm, I meant, did you actually push the power button on the computer?

    Mom: Nooo. Should I?

    Me: (after a pause) Yeah, that might be a good idea.

    Mom: Oh! There it is! Now it's working!

    Me: (sigh) Well, there you go. Let me know if you have any other problems with it.

    Now, if they'd tried their test with my mom, I don't think they would have faired quite as well.

    One of the biggest stumbling blocks to the adoption of Linux on the desktop has been the nerdish nature of the whole installation, configuration and user experience. Your average PC user (and most likely non-/. reader) is doing good to figure out how to get a printer connected to their Windows machine. The typical Linux distro is a no-go for these folks. Forget configuring a NIC, modifying the defaults for Gnome or KDE, or trying to figure out how to FTP a file from an xterm shell prompt. It just won't happen. MS has made Windows what it is not on its technical merits, but because it's been dumbed-down to the point where almost anyone can make it do something useful right out of the box with only a modest amount of coaching. A while back Russ Mitchell offered this rather negative view of Linux's chances on the desktop. While not everything he says is golden, a lot of it does apply, and should be seriously considered by anyone with dreams of seeing MS pushed into the backseat. Apparently someone at Lindows did bother to pay attention and start to make the Linux experience less painful for those without the inclination or ability to fiddle around under the hood.

    And before you poo-poo those poor sods who can't grok a regular expression or launch a background task from bash, just remember this: They're the ones with most of the disposable income, not us nerds, and Bill Gates et. al. know it.

    1. Re:Not A Valid Test by Strudelkugel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My view has been that the best Linux app out there is TiVo, and it represents a good model for use of Linux in consumer electronics - as an embedded OS. Lindows is interesting because that is essentially what it is, a preloaded OS on inexpensive hardware, designed to allow someone to browse, email, and do some basic backoffice work. Lindows should really work with a hardware vendor to package all in a little box, not much bigger than a drive, to make a turnkey product.

      Russ Mitchell is right about the effort wasted recreating the desktop. GNU/Linux community seems to be obsessed with the XP desktop. Why bother with a lookalike? To save $50? OK, throw in Office and make it $300. If I'm a professional, $300 is still cheap when I know all of my other software will work with the machine. If all I want to do is browse, email and print a few letters or whatever, Lindows is fine.

      That's why I believe there will be two winners in the Linux world - Lindows or some Lindows like company (CE device), and Red Hat (enterprise). Once again thinking of TiVo, it has a customized interface (not looking for XP here!) suited for its task and does what I expect. In the enterprise arena, big corporations will likely go with Red Hat which seems to have the momentum now. All the other distros will become hobby horses.

      --
      Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
  41. Paper Towel Roll... Ewwwww!!!! by AntiGenX · · Score: 4, Funny


    Did anybody else notice the roll of paper towels next to the computer? And to think, he let his own mother type on that keyboard.

  42. Saw Consumer Reports report this morning... by afniv · · Score: 4, Informative

    This morning, a local TV news reported on Consumers Report's new research on cheap computers. The story centered on Walmarts cheap computer which (shockingly) did not have "Windows". They said it looked like "Windows", but isn't. The CR demonstrator showed the print manager window. He said there were too many icons, none of which were "Add Printer". He was confused with the "spooling" term.

    Also, he plugged in a digital camera and an error message popped up. He did the same with a Windows system and it immediately started an install process. The short story: stay away from Walmart Lindows computers and buy Dell 2350.

    Oh well. There are those who've used Linux and there are those who haven't learned it yet (like Windows used to be).

    --
    ~afniv
    "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
    Richard von Weizs
  43. Re:St00pid Lindows by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For those who say Lindows is charging money for something that you think should be free, I have one suggestion for you.

    Make your own puppy-walking distribution that starts simple - so there's nothing for neophytes to fear - and grows up with you rather than holding you back. {How about a file manager with a window that shows you what you could have typed into a terminal to achieve the same effect -- it would be off by default, but you could turn it on once you felt ready for it?} Make it better than Mandrake or Lindows. Make it easy to customise, so you can add features as you become more confident. {Start building web pages with a HTML editor -> put in your own Apache server -> do some programming in PHP -> progress to a "real" language -> become a kernel hacker ..... well, you can always dream :-) } Make it free.

    You can do it. All the bits are out there, for free -- all it is going to take is a bit of custom scripting to hold it all together. Nobody is stopping anybody from doing it.

    Unless you can't be bothered to do it, in which case you've no place slagging off those that have at least tried.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  44. Did anyone else notice by greechneb · · Score: 4, Funny

    The large roll of paper towels by his monitor in the picture of his mom?

    I wonder what those were for...

    *cough* one handed surfing *cough*

  45. Lindows is... by praedor · · Score: 2, Informative

    Perhaps the most likely to get quick desktop realestate on common home user desktops due to its preinstalls, cheap price, etc, but it is also the most likely to ultimately give the impression that linux is not much better than windows wrt viruses and worms. The problem is the default root runlevel that lindows uses. NORMAL and proper linux users will be exactly that, USERS. Lindows users are root all the time. A proper linux user can, at worst, wreck their home directory if they are dumb enough to run an untrusted/untrustable script or application they've downloaded (at worst). A lindows user is quite possibly going to get owned like a windows user in relatively short order - and their entire system is vulnerable. Their system is rooted out of the box with full priviledges. No better, no more secure than windows.


    The only thing really saving them is the lack of a macro vulnerability, activeX, and other windows-assorted crap and builtin insecurity. They are marginally safer than a windows user but only just.


    Lindows should trust people to be smart enough and capable enough to deal with a separate root account. It can be simple. Have lindows setup a generic, invisable user account that anyone using the system would actually use. During startup/bootup, it would automatically start that account and take you to the GUI. During initial setup, have lindows ask for a password for root. The user never needs to use this until/unless they run a software update or install, at which point a dialog box comes up asking for a password. That's it. It would be at least minimally safe and no virus or trojan would have access to the system, only the generic system-wide user home.


    --
    In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  46. how about a "mom comparison test"? by claud9999 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What would be far more useful is to give "mom" a set of tasks to perform (surf the web, write a document, diagnose a disconnected ethernet cable, etc) in Lindows, Mandrake, WinXP, etc. Saying "mom had no trouble" doesn't convince me, "mom had less trouble than X" does.

    Also, does anyone else note that this article was posted on Extreme Tech? Not exactly what mom would read.

    I believe Consumer Reports reviewed Lindows-based computers in their latest issue, surely a rag much more likely to be read by mom. (I seem to remember it panned Lindows for anything more than web surfing.)

  47. Mom used it, or mom installed it? by SCHecklerX · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Linux always HAS been easy and user friendly for end users. You just have to give them a box that they log into that has their most commonly used stuff on a desktop, or in a menu, and you show them how to use the menu, the desktop, and how to close programs and shut down when done. For example "surf web" "write letter" "email" "spreadsheet" "chat with son" etc.

    Each user can then do whatever they please in their environment, as they learn it. If they screw up, replacing to defaults is as trivial as a file copy.

    USING linux is NOT hard. Administering it MAY be, but I find the guesswork with configuring and installing software on Microsoft's end-user offerings to be much more painful.

  48. Lindows Rocks by antdude · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe show your mom this music video (Flash): link.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  49. Re: Mom-Test FAILED by jaoswald · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not just one failure, the distro failed the Mom test completely.

    1) He had to install OpenOffice *himself* before Mom got on.

    2) He had to prompt Mom, after waiting for her to find MS Office, that she should be looking for something else.

    So, she *couldn't* find the MS Office substitute, and *wouldn't* have been able to find it in Lindows, because it isn't installed by default.

    How is that passing the test at all? The computer didn't catch fire while she was using it?

  50. From Jane's Diary... by fo0bar · · Score: 4, Funny

    June 11: I have been observing Mom for quite some time. She has been facinating over the last few months. Today I decided to give her a little test. I placed a computer pre-loaded with Lindows 4.0 in her habitat to see what her reaction will be. I hope this proves to be a valuable experiment.

    June 12: After ignoring the computer yesterday, she walked up to it this morning and stared vacantly at the monitor. I hope she figures out how to turn on the machine soon.

    June 14: Success! The computer is on, and is currently loading Lindows. Mom seems facinated with the fsck's progress bar. The desktop is now loaded, and... what's this? A flash presentation has popped up and is explaining how to get started with using Lindows. This frightened Mom; she is currently beating the case with a large rock.

    June 16: The computer has been replaced, and I took the liberty to disable the welcome presentation this time. It appears Mom is learning mouse movements fast. It took a few hours, but she managed to find and open OpenOffice.org. Her concept of written language is improving; yesterday all she could type is random garbage, but now she's at a level equivalent to an IRC user. Now that I think about it, that's a step backwards.

    June 19: Like most mammals, Mom got bored of doing things like typing and playing solitaire. She found the shell and began exploring. Unfortunately, I was quite disappointed to see that the first programming language she discovered was Java, and she has also been getting attached to Emacs. How unfortunate.

    June 21: Oh great, now she's starting a flame war on debian-devel. Where did I go wrong?

  51. Re:This drives me by faaaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm pretty quick most of the time, except when I rebooted the ATM.

    The machine took my card and went BSOD, so I just whacked a lot of buttons at the same time. This apparently made the machine reboot and spit out my card.

    The ATM (SEB, Sweden) was a 233MHz P2 with 256MB RAM running Windows NT 4.0 btw. It took a looooooooong time to boot, starting about 20 pieces of security/encryption software.

    --
    we come in peace / shoot to kill
  52. Dad test by Doug+Neal · · Score: 4, Funny

    Interesting that this article came up today. Tomorrow my dad's borrowing my laptop to visit some relatives and scan a load of old family photos (he's into that stuff)... thing is, he's used to Windows and the laptop only has Debian on it.

    So, I set up SANE, plug the scanner into the firewire port, it all works perfectly. Nice. Set up a minimal, Windows-styled KDE desktop with a nice friendly icon, "Scan and OCR software". All he has to do is click his name on the KDM login screen. Cool. Even he can't get this wrong. I do a few test runs. It's dead simple, even more so than his Windows setup.

    So I sit him down in front of the laptop to see if he can manage this. He just about figures out the login. OK. Now we've got the KDE desktop, nothing there but a few icons. Mouse is right over the "Scan and OCR" icon. He sits there for about 20 seconds in silence before saying "which one is it?"

    If there's anything getting in the way of linux on the desktop, it sure isn't linux :P

  53. Re: Mom-Test FAILED by DoomHaven · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Uh...MS Office isn't installed by default on a Windows box. Therefore, had this been a vanilla installation of Windows, he would have had to install Office for his Mother anyways. Ergo, while you may be correct in saying that the test failed because he had to manually install Open Office prior to Mom, Windows would have failed the exact same way.

    --
    "Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
  54. Thanks for playing. by lpret · · Score: 2, Insightful
    No. You're wrong, thanks for playing. It's not the tech-savvy people who Linux needs to win over. Those users already have enough reason to move (they understand the uber-security of Linux) and have their reasons for not moving (gaming). Those who want to, will.

    The non-tech-savvy people, OTOH, have basic needs that can easily be addressed by Linux: e-mail, internet, instant messaging, mp3 player, p2p app, word processing. That is all they need and want. If someone will wake up and do this (I suspect Lindows is in the best position) so that when it is installed, all this is good to go - you'd have the OS for your mom.

    Now let me tell you why mom matters: Mom is looking for the cheapest PC there is. If you can undersell a Windows box with a Linux box, then you've just won. Also, marketing works. I suspect by your website you don't put much faith in marketing, but sales and marketing people make or break the product in the real world. You could have the best product there is, but if you don't have the right people hyping it up, there will be no sales=no money=you're out of a job.

    Mom watches TV. She reads the magazines. If something promises to do something easier/cheaper/better/faster/safer/etc, she'll be interested. People listen to marketing. If she sees this, she'll install it. If Dad uses it at work, and he brings it home, kids will use it. You've just created a two-prong attack that does very well. You expose the kids from a young age. Everyone starts to use it more. If you're the dad or mom, work with they kids and they'll love it. You've just created a completely Linux family. That wasn't so hard to see why Mom needs advertising, is it?

    --
    This is my digital signature. 10011011001
  55. easy solution by dh003i · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Put an icon for OpenOffice on the desktop. Don't call it open-office, just call it Office.

    Sure, this will piss off 'lites, but so the fuck what? Elitists won't be using Lindows anyways: the person who's been using Macs and Windows all his/her life will, or who's never used an OS before.

    On the desktop, put things like:

    Office or Word Processor
    Spreadsheet
    Database
    Slideshow Presentation Creator
    E-Mail
    Internet
    Porn
    Music Player
    Movie Player
    File Sharing
    CD-Ripping/Burning ...and other commonly used apps by home users

    Or better yet, create a superior UI from the start. See some of my examples from my home page:

    a model desktop
    some explanation of the desktop model

    --
    social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
  56. Re:St00pid Lindows by Xabraxas · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'm sorry... Lindows is a shameless attempt to take something that is free and repackage it as something that costs money to compete/look like something that costs more money. Lindows is not free and not GPL compatible, so how do they get away with using GPL'd stuff?

    You haven't read the GPL have you? You must only provide the source for the software.

    "The pricing of Click N' Run software has changed from $49.95 a year to $4.95 a month" That means it's $60 a year!!!

    Wrong. The pricing is either $49.95 a year or $4.95 a month. If you wish to pay monthly instead of yearly then you pay more, this is a common practice.

    I think the OSS/GPL community should focus on making a seriously usable, more efficient and stable UI w/ a simple and powerful API. Maybe ditch X & C? I think that Java, Python, AOP, self-generating code (like LISP) and langugages w/ embedded expert knowlege systems (something like JESS) are the future... platform specific apps are headed for the dust-bin of history: C does not scale well and there's too many hacks/incompatibilities/evil things and C++ polymorphism is a inconsistent, incomplete kludge. You can argue and justify *NIX & C all day long, but the security issues (strcmp, gets) and wild pointers give programs zero protection, almost like each program is an old skool DOS machine, where it can go wild writing shit everywhere w/ pointers w/o security. I propose that programs and libraries have defensive security models *built-in*, so that private data is actually secured, in a real way.

    Sounds nifty. How about you give me a copy when you've got a beta. Seriously though, no one cares what you think the OSS community should do. The whole point is to do what you want to be done. The source is open so you don't have to re-implement everything on your own. Whoever feels it's a good idea to implement "your" ideas, and is knowledgeable enough to do so, will do just that. So I suggest if you really want something like that then create it or shut up.

    --
    Time makes more converts than reason
  57. New Acronym by weeboo0104 · · Score: 2, Funny

    MILF.

    Mom
    Is a
    Linux
    Freak.

    --
    It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
  58. Re:Spam filter yes, but anti-virus??? by russianspy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To scan windows machines (partitions) from a known, virus-free environment.

  59. Easy enough to fix... by maxmg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just make sure you replace the OpenOffice.org icons in the start menu with their windows counterparts and rename them to "Word", "Excel", etc.

    I guarantee you that most of the time, Moms will not even notice the difference, at least mine will just assume her memory about how the software looked the last time just let her down.

    --
    I asked for a refund - and got my monkey back.
  60. Re:Mom-Test by metachimp · · Score: 2, Funny

    Irate Mother: Johnny!! Are you running Apache as root?!?

    Johnny: (looking down, grinding toe into the ground) Yes, Mom...

    --
    The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
  61. But WHERE is the data stored by bluGill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In any OS it's easy to migrate personal data, if you know what you are doing and where the data is stored.

    But that is the point, in windows you don't know where the #@%^^%* data is stored. In linux your data is in /home/username, and you don't have the ability to write to much else (/tmp, which could perhaps be renamed to temperary_data, but I think that is clear enough already). Unfortunatly writing to floppies isn't as easy, and syncing for a laptop users is a pain. At least the data is easy to find, compare that to a Windows machine that several people will use.

    I just helped a Windows XP user try to find some data. She opens WordPerfect (came with the comptuer), writes something, saves it, and then can't find it again. I eventially found it, but not in her directory, in some other users directory. Worse, I couldn't even figgure out how to make it start saving HER files to her directory. And this is a simple singer user computer. I challenge you to setup a typical windows machine on a network enviroment where the users won't know in advance which machine they will use on any given day.

  62. It's not about the OS; it's about MS Office by lma · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This review was very telling. What did Mom look for first? Microsoft Office.

    Most Linux zealots are happily toiling away making a Linux desktop that's friendly to a generation of users trained on Microsoft Windows. Meanwhile, Microsoft is creating an entirely new operating environment and training the next generation of users to live in that environment: Microsoft Office.

    Office is the franchise, not Windows. Microsoft Windows maintains its dominance on the desktop primarily because it runs Microsoft Office. The underlying OS doesn't matter. Mom doesn't care what the OS is. She cares that it runs Microsoft Office.

    MS is slowly replacing Windows as the dominant platform with Office as the dominant platform. When the next generation of Office comes out, you'll see more and more applications written to run within Office. More and more applications will be Office plugins that run using Office APIs. Microsoft is changing the rules of the game. Go ahead, build a better OS. It won't matter because the world will have moved one step up to Microsoft Office.

    In order to compete on the desktop, the Open Source world needs to devote the kind of energy to competing at the Office level as it does to competing at the OS level. Then maybe Linux will truely have a chance on the desktop.