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Video Chat Software Reviewed
Ryan writes "The PowerPage by way of The New York Times has a comparison of Apple's new iChatAV and Microsoft's MSN Messenger 6. My favorite quote, 'Microsoft, true to tradition, has focused on expanding its list of features, while Apple has worked toward elegance and simplicity.'"
Adding features does not necessarily increase functionality -- it just makes the manuals thicker.
too bad they did not compared it to gnomemeeting
:)
an open source h323 soft compatible with netmeeting for all *nix, but dunno if it is still with msn6, would be nice to check this
of course MSN product is better... they are already on version 6! iChatAV doesn't even HAVE a version number! silly mac freaks.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
You can download them free at messenger.msn.com or apple.com/ichat, respectively, as part of a public beta test - a software company's way of saying, "Sure they're buggy, but what do you want for free?"
I believe I hear the sounds of a pissed off Gnu.
Messenger 6.0 has a puking emoticon.
'nuff said.
What's Linux got to do with anything? I thought the article was about iChat. Could you please keep you anti-Linux elitism out of this?
sic transit gloria mundi
Well, one of the great things about apple's product is that it doesn't have the build in crashandburn(); function that the msn software got. At least that's my experience with my usb webcam I got for free hehe.
Plus, exactly how many features can u need on a peice of software that is made for point to point communication?.
This point, like the one the editor made, is what defines it to me. Do you want to play? Get MSN. Do you want to communicate? Get iChat. There are times and places for both of these activities.As those of you who saw Jobs' keynote Monday will already have guessed, this was a prime requirement for the iSight camera that Apple released -- designed to attach to the various displays Apple has released. Looking at the pictures on the NYT site (yeah, registration, ooh, scary), there's a massive difference in the way that the people using the two apps look -- one that you wouldn't necessarily click to from just reading the text.This is true, as it stands, but misleading. As they point out elsewhere in the text, iChat works as well on any FireWire camera, such as pretty much all modern camcorders, etc. This has more to do with using an established graphics communication protocol over a generic bus like USB than who manufactures the hardware.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
Has anyone actually used these types of programs for other than just flashing your "little general" (hint: not Ross Perot) at strangers?
!@#$% whole-grain cereal. When I want fiber, I eat some wicker furniture. - G. Carlin
These people do video chat software, codecs and networking are all great, but not everybody has to be doing that. Besides, there is plenty of broadband to go around, just because everyone doesn't have it doesn't mean those that shouldn't be able to take advantage of it. (seriously, how many things are there that everyone has?)
sic transit gloria mundi
Seriously, how hard is it do this, and find this?
Do not read this sig.
Manuals? Have you actually purchased a Microsoft product in the last ten years? You don't get any manuals. You get a "quick start" booklet and a cyanide capsule and that's it.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Personally, all I care is when someone will make a voice-chat system that stands a rats-chance in hell of making it passed a basic router, much less a firewall. I'm sorry, but when I can play UT against people in and out of the University but I can't voice chat with them, there's something wrong there. At the very least keep it on one or two ports so its possible to plan around it and forward it, instead of running up and down half of the upper ports like some do.
But which one comes with the best auto-airbrushing feature? Many slashdot readers will no doubt need this.
-- the only thing we have to fear is really scary things
maybe something that will work with apples iChat AV?
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
I recently had the opportunity to try both GnomeMeeting and iChat AV. These remarks are only for audio, though.
GnomeMeeting has an impressive feature list and it's adherence to open standards is naturally very appealing.
However, when comparing it to beta iChat the differences were planet-sized. Apple has created a wonderful UI; I could concentrate on communication, not on the software itself.
It is true that GnomeMeeting allows you to use different codecs and is slightly more hacker-friendly. However, when I want to talk to someone, I usually don't feel like configuring loads of stuff. In some cases ease of use simply blows features away, and human communication is one of them.
(Not to mention the sound quality of the iChat audio chat. Wow.)
[ Antti Rasinen ]
The audio uses the compression technology out of CDMA. Pretty neat.
It's good to see Apple and Microsoft are now providing it with some timely competetion.
The competition in largely orthogonal. i.e.: Apple (generally) targets functionality and style while Microsoft (generally) targets platform and functionality. There's a cost to MS's platform focus and lots of times it comes across as feature bloat. For example: all the "I want to..." tasks in the view pane of MSN Messenger's chat window are all 'the same' because they all plug into the same platform. The 'sameness' takes a serious toll on the user experience, which is what Microsoft often doesn't overcome well (and what Apple seems to excel at).
Another thing that should be noted is iChatAV requires at least a 600mhz machine in order to send video. While GnomeMeeting and others run on much less powerful hardware.
Right:
:
:
./configure --prefix=/usr
./configure --prefix=/usr
./configure script, it supports several parameters:
/usr
/opt, default is /usr/include/ptlib)
./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc
/how/--to compile programs and configure things from the command-line.
/all/ like ./make and ./configure, dude. Sometimes, people just want shit to work.
"Installation of Gnomemeeting is easy once you have the right version for your specific distribution of Linux! Here at PowerPage, we followed the simple directions:
4. Software installation
4.1. Which libraries do I need to run it?
You will need
* the standard Gnome libraries (they are now optional in recent GnomeMeeting versions, but we recommend using them to have the full-featured GnomeMeeting).
* the OpenH323 and the PWlib libraries (See download section of this website).
* the OpenLDAP library (Included in your distribution)
* the SDL library (Included in your distribution). Having SDL is optional, but if you compile GnomeMeeting without SDL, the fullscreen feature will be unavailable.
* the Quicknet telephony development files (Provided with your kernel). Having those files is optional, but if you compile GnomeMeeting without Quicknet support, it will be impossible to use Quicknet hardware during calls.
4.2. How can I compile GnomeMeeting?
Simply use the binaries from your distribution, the ones in the downloads section, or compile that way:
As root, follow the steps
4.2.1. Compile PWlib
You have to compile PWlib that way:
$
$ make optshared
$ make install
If you want to compile Firewire support into PWlib, you have to pass either the --enable-firewiredc or --enable-firewireavc to the configure script. Notice that executing the configure script will generate a ptbuildopts.h file that will be placed in the include/ subdirectory of the pwlib sources. If you want to benefit from the callto URLs, P_LDAP must be defined and set to 1 in that file. Similarly, P_HAS_IPV6 must be defined and set to 1 if you want to be able to use IPv6 with GnomeMeeting.
4.2.2. Compile OpenH323
You have to compile OpenH323 that way:
$
$ make optshared
$ make install
If you have any problem, please have a look at openh323 FAQ. You can also mail the GnomeMeeting mailing list.
4.2.3. Compile Gnomemeeting
Download it in the download section of the GnomeMeeting websit.
run the
--prefix=/usr to install it in
--with-ptlib-includes= specifies the location of PTlib headers (for example,/opt/pwlib/include/ptlib if you extracted PWlib in
--with-openh323-includes= specifies the location of OpenH323 headers
If OpenH323 and PWlib are correctly installed (both the libraries and the headers), we suggest you to compile GnomeMeeting that way:
$
$ make
$ make install
We at the PowerPage were disappointed to see the installation instructions for iChat and MSN Messenger 6:
1. Download iChat if you're using OS X; download MSN Messenger 6 if you're using Windows.
2. Double-click the file you downloaded and click the 'install' button to begin the installation.
3. Double-click the program's icon to run it and sign on."
Give me a break. If they would have compared Gnomemeeting, it would have been trounced. Why? Because this wasn't an article geared toward people who like--or even know
There goes another Slashdotter who just doesn't understand which software is geared toward which people. We don't
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
In some cases ease of use simply blows features away, and human communication is one of them.
Both Gnome Meeting and Yahoo Instant Messanger allow you to talk with more than one person at once. iChat AV doesn't.
I'd say that's a very key part of "human communication". My wife uses Yahoo IM video conferencing to talk with her mom (in one state) and her father (stationed in another country) at the same time.. she couldn't do this with iChat AV.
"Apple, on the other hand, would sooner die than release anything that could be described as "stuttering" or "microscopic." In iChat AV, video is as crisp, clear, bright and smooth as television (640 by 480 pixels), in a window as small as a Triscuit or as big as your screen. Unless you begin to type, the typed-chat window isn't even visible during a video or audio call. Beware, however: Apple offers this top-tier experience only if you have top-tier gear. Video calls require high-speed Internet connections at both ends; dial-up fans need not apply. Apple says that audio calls work over dial-up connections, but mine didn't work without a broadband hookup on at least one end. And iChat AV turns up its nose at those U.S.B. golf-ball Webcams. It requires a video camera with FireWire (a very fast connector also found on every Macintosh). For this purpose, you can use an ordinary digital camcorder - a clever money-saving twist - as long as your Mac has at least a G4 chip inside. You can use a golf-ball Webcam that connects via FireWire instead of U.S.B. Or you can use iSight, the new $150 camera-microphone appliance that Apple unveiled Monday as an optional partner for iChat AV."
I like my 2 cheap ass novelty webcams, dammit!
Not everyone has the money to buy some bad ass digital camcorder!
Such quality is really only needed in a corporate setting. For which lots of applications already exist and people wouldn't be using MSN or iChat.
'Microsoft, true to tradition, has focused on expanding its list of features, while Apple has worked toward elegance and simplicity.
Elegantly simple? Or elegant for simpletons? I'll take "expanded list of features" for $1000, Alex.
One of the features of Microsoft's offering is "works with almost any old Webcam". Apple's "requires a video camera with FireWire"
I like things that work. From the article it appears they both work equally well so the deciding factor will have to be...features.
I was amazed..I expected to wait months.
The camera is absolutely amazing. About the size of a long C cell, the quality blows away any USB cam I've ever seen, and looks better than my camcorder as well. The whole iChat/iSight experience is, as Apple promised, beyond simple. Download iChat AV (had it already) plug in the camera, and off you go...well at least to the other two people I know who have iChat AV installed.
Well there had to be a caveat, eh? Forget about it if you have a slow Mac. I first hooked it to a dual 500mhz G4, and with bandwidth limits off, the thing bogged down my machine like nothing I had ever seen. I had to do a pushbutton restart twice.
Then I tried it on my daughter's 1ghz 17" iMac. Perfect. Flawless. I was having chats with people at 600kbps and it was like television on the other side, or so I was told.
Back to the dual 500, but with bandwidth limited to 200kbps. Now it works fine, but the moral here is that Apple is not telling all about processor requirements. To be honest, anything less than an 800mhz G4 is going to choke without the bandwidth limiter.
Yeah other cams are cheaper and there aren't many people to communicate with yet. But the difference between this type of chat and generic AIM is, forgive the cliche, paradigm changing.
I ordered two more iSight's today.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
Number of years I've owned a camera I could use for videoconferencing: three years
Number of times I've actually used it for videoconferencing: 0. Nada. Zilch.
Could someone please explain to me why I would want to videoconference when I could just use GAIM and not rape my internet connection?
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
How else would you express to your long-distance correspondant that you're using a Windows-based system?
here is a picture of an ichat av session, this was before i got the isight (today) it worked fine with my cannon dv cam:
http://www.flashenabled.com/nimages/ichatbg.jpg
it works great, full screen and super-simple. msn 6 and ichat both do im, but msn is on version 6 with lots of features that many people need, or want while apple is starting out for the most part and many people don't need app sharing, white board, etc...it's pretty exciting. i use a mac and a pc so i've got the best of both.
cheers,
pt
Do either of them have an option for SSL, or any encryption at all (other than that that trys to make the protocole obscure as posiable)
The reason why I like to buy SuSE Linux is because they KNOW that nothing, not even the best electronic documentation, can beat a well written book. Microsoft just can't figure this out. I found my first expierence with Windows XP even more painful than my first encounter with Linux (and let me tell you, since my video card was incompatible, it was REALLY PAINFUL), as most of the features are cryptic and essentially undocumented. It took me almost a minute just to find the control panel and get it converted into a less weird format.
My girlfriend went on and on about how she wanted an iSight. Last night I broke down and went with her to pick one up. It's a pretty sweet device. On our LAN here, we have no problems doing 2mbps video. Chatting with a couple friends, we've been able to do up to 160kbps. Still, not bad.
;-)
Earlier, I took my older Pismo PowerBook into the back yard and had an audio chat with her, while getting video from the iSight attached to her PowerMac. 700-800kbps there. Not bad at all. My audio stream going to here was 30kbps.
All in all, it's a sweet device. I need to make more Mac friends. It's only a matter of time before there's an iChat AV videochat directory*.
*All original ideas are the property of me. Boo yeah, grandma. I thought of it first, and so on...
From the article it appears they both work equally well so the deciding factor will have to be...features.
No, the deciding factor will have to be...video quality.
Here's what Pogue's article says about the Microsoft product:
If both conversation partners have high-speed Internet connections or are on the same office network, Messenger's video looks very good. You have only three size choices for the video - small, smaller or microscopic - but it's bona fide video. [Also, Pogue goes onto say that the MS product gets bogged down if you're connecting through a router]
And here's what Pogue's article says about Apple's product:
Apple, on the other hand, would sooner die than release anything that could be described as "stuttering" or "microscopic." In iChat AV, video is as crisp, clear, bright and smooth as television (640 by 480 pixels), in a window as small as a Triscuit or as big as your screen.
As you can see, video quality for the Apple product is incomparably better. The whole point of this video chat stuff is great quality video, and it appears that Apple is the only one offering high quality video at the moment. Unless you're content to look at triscuitsI'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
Of course Apple is better. They only took one version to get it right, while Microsoft took 6.
I used to fool around with iChat during the release of Jaguar. Didn't use it that much because most of my friends didn't have AIM-accounts. But it's changing now... AOL/ICQ have recently merged their networks, so now i can use iChat to chat with my ICQ friends (only of they use the latest ICQ-lite though).
:(
And I think Steve Jobs described Video-conferencing pretty accurately. It's one of those features that you go "I will never use this. It's cool. But I will never use this." and then after some use you will go "Why did I say that? THIS IS GREAT!".
You know what? Steve Jobs was completely right! iChat is now my favorite chatting application because of it's sleek interface, ease of use and audio/video capabilities. I just plugged in my webcamera and iChat AV booted up automatically and configured itself! How is that for plug and play, Microsoft? No drivers, no nothing. It simply worked. Set up in less than ten seconds. I am stumped!
"Way to go Apple!" is what I say! This will completely change how I communicate with my father that reside in the US. We've emailed and called back and forth for six years now, but now it looks like we're taking a step further to the future!
But what really need to happen is interconnect-ability between all apps though
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
"Messenger 6, in its ultimate form, will be free; iChat AV will cost $30 (but will be free with Apple's next operating-system release, Mac OS X 10.3, code-named Panther, due by year's end).".
Vote for Pedro
I'm not entirely sure how Apple does this, but apparently someone with Ethereal discovered the voice data travels through an AOL server.
karma: ouch!
A friend and I have iChat AV. We are in separate states, each behind our own OpenBSD based firewalls. Only a few specific ports like 22 (ssh) and 80 (web) are tunneled through.
I fired up iChat AV, and so did he. I saw the little phone button next to his name, so I pressed it. It connected and we started talking. Working great. No port forwarding.
IIRC, the audio stream is sent right inside the instant messager packets so as long as you can instant message, you can use voice.
I'll break out tcpdump and check it out sometime. No hurry though, cause it works great...
Justin Dubs
I prefer the idea of iChat AV over MSN Messenger 6, but I like Apple's simplicity in UI design in general, which is why I have a Mac. But the MS chat will no doubt be good enough for most of the people out there (most of whom have no idea that MacOSX even exists, much less that there is something like iCHat AV etc) and will obviously work with more , and cheaper, hardware. I think the majority of PC users will be happy enough with the quality provided by MS Chat, and it will server to bind PC users even more into the MSN/Microsoft fold.
I personally think that Apple made a mistake by limiting iChat users to AIM/ICQ/.Mac but I presume that Yahoo had some legal barriers that made it unwise to enter. I think that OSX hackers will probably hack this thing eventually that it will accept other hardware Cams, such as USB types, as they seem to be quite a resourceful bunch, but the lack of AIM/MS IM/Yahoo compatibility is something that will continue to hinder decent Audio/Video Chatting over the internet.
Can IChat speak to MSN or vice versa ?
Apart from that i find instant messages much more practical and bandwidth savvy, especially when talking with multiple people from an hotel room that has only dialup.
Evolution isn't a progression to ever greater and greater differentiation
but...is first an ascent to a higher point, and after having reached this
point is then a descent to more and more simple forms. (Rudolf Steiner)
Perfection (in design) is achieved not when
there is nothing more to add, but rather when there
is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery)
Everything should be made as simple as possible,
but no simpler. (Albert Einstein)
cheers!
Yahoo Chat has had video feature for years. CuSeeMe been out longer then that. This is new?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
iChat communicates through port 5298.
How do I know this? Well it told me, and took me to my firewall pref pane so I could click Add and let it through. That's simplicity.
All in all, it's a sweet device. I need to make more Mac friends. It's only a matter of time before there's an iChat AV videochat directory*.
Didn't take too long, did it? http://www.myisight.com/
Video wasn't a feature of NetMeeting until version 2.0, which was released in December 1996.
A year previously, in December 1995, Apple released QuickTime Conferencing, a standards-based videoconferencing suite for Macs. It didn't catch on, presumably because there were few users with fat network connections needed to support its features: audio and video chat, shared whiteboard, support for the H.320 ISDN videoconferencing standard used in businesses at the time.
Of course, people forget that Microsoft Excel was written for the Mac, and ported to Windows, as well...
more like:
Okay Dad, click the terminal icon
What's that?
It looks kinda like a monitor
*silence*
Like a black square thing
*silence*
It's in the lower left hand part of the screen
Okay I clicked it
Did a black window open up?
No
Um.. did any window open up?
Yes, it's white.
Okay, that's okay. Do you see a prompt?
A what?
Do you see a blinking cursor? Does it let you type?
Yes
Okay now type sudo apt-get install gnome-meeting
Okay
Is it doing anything?
No
Did you hit return?
Okay I did.
Is it doing anything?
No
What does it say?
It doesn't say anything
Okay lets try again. Type s u d o space a p t dash g e t space i n s t a l l space g n o m e dash m e e t i n g and press return
okay
What does it say?
nothing
In the window where you just typed the letters it doesn't have any words?
It says "Sorry try again, password:"
Okay, it probably worked the first time and thinks you were entering your password the second time.
What?
Nevermind, just put in your password and it should be okay.
What's my password.
I don't know your password, it's whatever you use when you sign into the machine.
I don't know
You don't know your password? What do you type when you logon to the computer?
I don't know
The computer... when you first turn it on... you have to type something before you can use it right?
Yes.
What do you type?
Your mother does it.
Okay well then we need her on the phone.
She's not home.
Okay, well.. we aren't going to be able to do this right now then. Um, have mom call me later when she gets home and we can try again.