Slashdot Mirror
SCO Taking Linux Discussion To Japan
levin writes "EETimes is carrying a new story about our good friend Darl McBride, CEO of SCO. His latest escapades include a trip to Japan in response to the CE Linux Forum initiative undertaken by several big-name Japanese tech firms such as Sony and Toshiba. He's putting his famous tainted code dog-and-pony show on parade, trying to influence some of the major CELF founders."
....I guess that means he'll have to accept his AssHat Award by proxy.
For what?
I remember we use to use this EMC datamovers on the controller server that was hooked up to the things. Besides that, I knew of only one other company that used them.
ACK
"I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel," said Enderle of Giga Information Group, who viewed the alleged code violations two weeks ago. "The lines of code contained typos, misspellings and even copyright disclaimers. It appeared to constitute a violation of the license."
Where can I get me one of these central modules?Why do we keep posting articles that we know are only to impose FUD on the Linux/Open source community?
Every Super Villan uses Linux.
I think he should take his show on over to Iraq - you don't wanna let them violators get a foodhold there!
The headline makes it seem like they are trying to get as many countries to discredit SCO's claims, before they get there.
"McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman."
I wonder if he's dumb enough to think they'll sign a non-disclosure?
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
It's a term borrowed from fark.com meaning someone who is acting stupid/idiotic/moronic/ass-holish.
We had two Compaq Proliant servers at work, running SCO Unix. We reinstalled them with Linux three weeks ago and sent back all SCO CD's, handbooks etc. to SCO with a little note that we dont want to use Software from a Company which can't write good code and sues those who can.
;)
Curious why we didn't receive a response yet
--
One by one the penguins steal my sanity...
Why is it that articles that mention SCO vs Linux always call Linux" "Linux," but the articles that don't seem to remember to call Linux "GNU/Linux?"
Is this a coincidence? It's been done what seems like 30 times in the last couple months.
Linux is just the kernal, GNU/Linux is the entire OS which includes both the kernal and all the GNU tools and stuff. SCO is only talking about the kernal so in that case they are right in just saying Linux.
I stole this Sig
It can be done as it has been already proven in Germany.
Nobody can make false accusations without giving proof. Any Linux distributer or the EFF or other interest groups can sue them. And if one does this SCO would to have to show the code or STFU.
It also raises the question why IBM doesn't do this.
The only sensible explanation for this strange behavior seems to me that SCO has some (perhaps weak) point and such a countersuit would fail. It seems to me that some of the players in this game have much more knowledge then they admit openly.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
"McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman."
Something tells me that he won't need to use his Japanese much to understand their response. Laughter transcends language, after all.
-- Fratz, human
(AP) In a related story, SCO took its fight against Linux to Antarctica. Little is known of the results, except that there are rumors of significant reductions in the penguin population."
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
end of line
With ... regretted appologies to Yatta!(c)(tm)
(r)(dog)
Nippon-Sue-Sue SCO-wonderful Easy-Rider-Salad-The-Mall! We didn't win so Sue! Sue! Sue! Sue!
Now where are the guys in underwear jumping around talking about how life is good as long as they have leaves and that the economy will recover?
Related Link: Google for Yatta. Trust me.
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
When I think about SCO I touch my CELF
This is just more evidence that SCO has no intent other than to harm Linux. There seems to be nothing to gain, for SCO anyway, from this escapade in Japan.
If this were an attempted murder, the victim would be Linux. The weapon would be SCO and the detective would now be visiting everyone with a motive. Hmmm who could that be?
"The 1,500 companies who received letters from SCO [about potential infringements] should be worried, big time," said Rob Enderle, a research fellow for the Giga Information Group (Santa Clara, Calif.). Based on what he saw, Enderle said, "The evidence appears to be very compelling."
/. viewers in a second (and if you mention WMD or politics here, you should get modded down to obliteration)
Prepare for the leter with very compelling information.
Ahh lets cut the crap right now.
All SCO would need to do is publish one example of where Linux has there source code here to slashdot and it would probably sway 50% of the
I would very much like to see one of these 1500 letters and this very compelling information.
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
I didn't think Japanese companies gave lame ducks much consideration...besides what kind of sauce to cook them with.
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
Asshat was around long before fark.com.
An interesting etymology of asshat.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
Isn't it enough to piss off one 800 pound gorilla?
Now he goes poking another eight of them with a stick.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
top execs.
Something I read on yahoo message board.
----
Specifically quoted from their FORM 8-A/A SEC filing. Last sentence of page 3 in the Bylaws section:
"The Bylaws also provide that the Company will indemnify officers and directors against losses that they may incur in investigations and legal proceedings resulting from their services to the Company,"
So as far as I can tell the Company could care less whether or not what they did was legal or ethical.
What the hell, I got karma to burn. You know, I really want to kick that guys ass. Doesn't even really have to be a full out fight, just give me one shot. Just one little shot and I'll knock him out, easy.
SCO has lawyers. Linux has a bunch of geeks with thousands of hours of experience with the bloodiest video games on earth.
-1 Offtopic.
"In the past three months, SCO Group, a small software company that owns Unix patents, claimed it had found chunks of its Unix code in Linux."
I thought it was already concluded that SCO doesn't even claim to own UNIX patents. They just claim that they own the copyrights. The Novell escapade brought all of that out. EE Times needs to get their story right.
IBM has the code to both SCO and Linux, why don't they find out the offending chunks and release a patch to romove them. The Linux community can then rewrite these peices of code and the problem goes away.
Unless ofcourse IBM thinks that would be an admission of guilt and therefore screw them.
In this zdnet article (who else!) from 2002, Darly Baby says:
"And C++ programming languages, we own those, have licensed them out multiple times, obviously"
Watch yer arse Stroustrup! Darls coming to get you!
I got this post from the yahoo message boards, the guy has a good point:
t m
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by: martin_lvnv (41/M/Las Vegas) 07/07/03 04:44 pm
Msg: 18108 of 18112
Has anyone considered how strange it is that Darl is going to Japan to talk to the CE Linux Forum? CE stands for consumer electronics: i.e. very small embedded systems running out of ROM most of the time without a hard drive on a small cheap processor.
SCOs published claims both from press releases, news reports and their own complaint are about IBM putting "enterprise" technology into Linux: NUMA, JFS, RCU, SMP etc. None of these things apply in the least to embedded systems running out of ROM on a consumer electronic device. Whats up with that?
My only guess is that SCOs arrogance knows no bounds and they think anything using a computer chip, even a toaster, has to infringe on SCOs IP.
http://www.celinuxforum.org/PressRelease/pr02.h
Uh, what Unix patents would those be?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Many "mom and pop and kids" circuses that toured small towns could not afford the expense of maintaining large animals such as camels and elephants, or dangerous and also expensive ones such as lions and tigers. Often, their only menagerie was a few dogs and a pony. The majority of their entertainment consisted of clowning, acrobatics and juggling, with a few acts that involved the dogs and pony. The larger, more sophisticated and better equipped circuses came to refer to these little guys as "dog and pony shows."
I'm sure there was the occasional carnie who would put on "special" shows for select clients, but so far as I know beastiality has long been illegal in many US states and, therefore, the practice you describe, performed in the US, would present a very real risk of imprisonment to all participants - hence the legends about "pony shows" down in ye olde Tijuana.
I worked on an IP case as a paralegal once that involved the Japenese Patent and Copyright office. It is an amazingly complex system over there and I doubt that SCO would be able to do anything to them even it wanted to. Even if they tried to get a UTC injunction against the importation of the Linux embedded goods, they would still be limited to getting the infringing pieces removed. While I am not a developer, it certainly seems from what I have read that replacing the offending code would not be terribly onerous.
In the end, however, I can see potentially large blows coming to either the Linux community or SCO depending on how the companies respond to the presentation.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
IAAL, but despite the fact that I've worked on copyright and patent litigations, I'm no expert. With that disclaimer, a couple of words about what little I do know:
1. SCO's suit, at least so far, isn't a copyright case, it's a contract breach claim against IBM.
2. In a contract suit there is a doctrine called "mitigation of damages," which says you can't get damages from the other party for harm you could reasonably have avoided. I'd take this to mean that SCO can't get damages for any use of its code that occurred after the point where IBM could have stopped using it if it had been notified by SCO.
3. Like everyone else, I'm very puzzled by SCO's failure to specify the offending code, and its lame excuses for that failure. OTOH, David Boies is a *very* good attorney, and if this is as lame a case as SCO's management is making it appear, I can't understand why he's still representing them. So the upshot is, as someone said in a response above, we'll just have to stay tuned (for a couple of years? arrgghh) and wait for this thing to play out.
(Why must Mods automatically assume that something is offtopic. If anything bad it's flamebait, but I hardly see that it is)
This seems to be central behind this debate. What is SCO claiming is infringing? Some seem to say that it's claiming that the Linux kernel has IP source code in it. If this is the case, then no, it's Linux that's infringing and NOT GNU/Linux. If it's GNU/Linux that's infringing, then I think they also have to accuse Berkeley of the same thing, as the GNU operating system is designed on the same general theory as BSD (A UNIX-like operating system). As I recall, all BSD ever got in trouble for was naming their OS UNIX. GNU's already got that area covered pretty easily, wouldn't you say?
Now, if there's a specific COMPONENT of GNU/Linux that infringes (which would be a bit difficult to pinpoint... X11? Bash? What?) Then they should stop mentioning Linux in its entirety and shouldn't come after it so much as they should go after the project developers or the FSF. Not to mention the GNU/HURD developers.
The most plausible case that SCO seems to have is over the Linux kernel, honestly. In which case it has nothing to do with GNU except that the GNU/Linux system is distributed with the infringing kernel. However, that's something that SCO should take up with Linus et al instead of the distros themselves.
More FUD, more FUD, more FUD.
Karma: Non-Heinous
Every few lines there was a line that was exactly the same as code in the Linux kernel source tree.
These lines contained one and only one character: '\n'
It's because Information is Addicting!
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
Thanks for the fix. The twitches were really starting to get bad.
I am getting sick of reading this inane and insane quote: How the hell do you copy every third line, without copying the other two? It would be like making a knock-off of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix where I copied every third line, and I got the other two lines from the public domain Moby Dick.
Don't even get me started on the meaningless phrase "central module of the Linux kernel".
It would be much more believable if he just said the whole damn thing was copied. I guess he thinks it sounds more "technical" than saying 33% was copied, because he can show off that he knows "code" is made up of "lines".
Why doesn't he just say every third byte was copied from the Evil Master Control Program, and then scoot off on his little Tron light-cycle?
I am getting sick of hearing that quote from that jackhole of the universe.
"It shows how entrenched Linux has become," said Victor Yodaiken, CEO of FSMLabs Inc. (Socorro, N.M.), a maker of real-time software for Linux.
Aah... yes. Last time I checked, FSMLabs was trying to undermine the GPL by offering kernel patches which use FSMLabs proprietary patented technology. The situation has become better due to massive intervention of the FSF since then, but is still somewhat uncertain.
It's scary that this is a time where even the foe of our foe is not necessarily our friend.
My non-lawyer understanding is that US courts can be really unwelcoming if you're not directly affected. A judge might say "Has SCO sued you? Sent a cease-and-desist? Have they even mentioned you by name? No? Then mind your own business".
US courts are also Very Expensive. Anyone who jumped in now would be doing IBM's work for them, and paying kerjillions of dollars to do so.
What IBM gains by waiting is that every time an SCO executive opens his mouth, IBM's lawyers have one more thing to cross-examine him about.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though SCO has absolutely no interest in consumer electronics and embedded devices. (And yet Microsoft certainly does.) So why would SCO waste time specifically targeting an upstart organization aiming to promote Linux for consumer electronics? It's not a threat to their marketshare. Seems fishy, albeit unprovable at this stage. Granted, they may only be making as much fuss as possible.
From his bio:
From 1988 to 1996, he worked at networking leader Novell where he was responsible for growing Novell Japan's growth to more than $100 million in revenue.
I was in Japan from 1986 to 1996. Novell went absolutely nowhere during that time. Microsoft took over the networking market. I ended up dealing only with Novell U.S. as Novell Japan was absolutely hopeless to work with. Now that I think about it, I seem to recall meeting Darl at a gaijin get-together. Just another expat executive lording over the locals.
If he knows more Japanese than "o-kane dase" I'll be amazed.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Supposedly its the RCU (Read, Copy, Update) code that speeds up threading on super-highend systems. It came from Sequent which was later purchaced by IBM. The AT&T contract signed by sequent didn't have the add-on that IBM had, which said that IBM 'owned' all the software they developed. In other words, all the UNIX stuff developed by sequent before it was purchaced by IBM SCO has a rights on.
The problem is what Sequent did was come up with the system and patent it, publishing the system in a patent, which applied to any multithreaded OS. In other words, they developed something and stuck it into their unix system, not the other way around.
Anyway, this is only one part of the story...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
This whole saga reminds me of an old joke, which I'll update to make more relevant.
One day there was an elephant named IBM walking through the jungle, when he accidentally got a thorn stuck in his foot. He hissed in pain, and pondered his predicament, when an ant named SCO overheard him.
After being told the problem, SCO the ant said, I'll help you out by removing the thorn on one condition; If I do it, you have to let me fuck you in the ass.
IBM the Elephant looked around, thinking this was a joke, but eventually said, 'Sure, why not?', figuring how bad could an assfuck be from an ant. So SCO the ant walks over, pulls out the thorn, and says, alright, Pay Up!, and starts climbing IBM's leg.
Once he's in position, SCO starts pumping like mad, fucking the elephant in the ass. Meanwhile, IBM is checking his watch, wondering when SCO will get started.
While this is going on, a couple of monkeys, named Slashdot and Linux, are in the trees watching this whole thing in amusement. When SCO starts fucking IBM in the ass, they start howling, laughing their asses off. They laugh so hard, they knock a coconut loose, which falls and hits IBM in the head.
Oww! screams IBM, 'That hurt!'
Hearing this, SCO looks up and screams 'TAKE IT ALL BITCH!'
I HAVE CUBIC WISDOM THAT TRANSCENDS AND CONTRADICTS ONE DAY GODS
Read it here. Shave off the filename to get a list of all documents in this filing.
[jole]
At least, he works for clients who want him to say that linux sucks, which can be seen here for instance (thanks to Anon on osnews for that link)
"Linux and other open source projects require too much customization, and doubts about the legitimacy of open source code could get users tangled up in lawsuits. Besides, many Linux supporters are a bunch of potty-mouthed malcontents. Enterprises are better off staying away from Linux and open source -- or at least thinking through the possible liabilities, argues guest columnist Rob Enderle."
Belief is the currency of delusion.
How is it this person can say this without violating the NDA? Does SCO have to enforce all violations of the NDA, or just selective ones? I guess SCO could allow this person to view it without an NDA, provided they say this.
Thoughts?
-- bearclaw
You are talking about the SEC form 8-A12G/A from SEC's SCO page, correct?
It's all governed by General Corporation Law, in this case indemnification is limited by section (e)
All they're really saying is, if we didn't have seperate D&O policies for the directors and officers before, we do now. And some other stuff to try to prevent a hostile stock take over.
Didn't SCO say that the "stolen" code was Enterpise stuff that Only could come from SCO. Didn't they also claim that this code was Intel based? What the heck is this all about then. Embedded systems are not Enterpise systems. A lot of Embedded systems do not use Intel CPUS. Why do I get a feeling that Sony was laughing there butts off at this guy. Well we can hope.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Yeah, I use SCO as my server platform, and WinXP for my desktop. I'm a /. rebel, baby!
If you were a true rebel, you'd be using WinXP as a server and UnixWare (or some other SCO-crap) as a desktop.
Imagine the pain.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Well, not literally.. SCO doesn't have a patent on my ass. Quote from article.
McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman.
According to the patent search I just did, there are only three patents, one by Caldera and two by Santa Cruz Operation. While they have patented some useful things, like using a network, you would not have to view code when you're trying to see if something violates a patent. Patents are about what things do, not specifically how they are built. If you had a patent on 'a method of printing "Hello World!", I could copy almost all of your code, but change mine to printf("SCO sucks"); and it would not be patent infringement. This would be a case of copyright infringement, so the question is 'why aren't they suing for copyright infringement'... if someone was infringing on my copyrights that's probably what I would sue them for. Unless, that is, I had no case whatsoever. What they are suing for is contract violation.... there is no way anyone can say jack shit about that unless they have read the contracts. What I will say though is that it is clear SCO is claiming rights to technologies: NUMA, SMP, etc. based on the fact that they were incorporated into an operating system that was derivative of Unix. This is what they do in the press.... this completely irresponsible slander.. but what they will say in court remains to be seen.
My Blog
I was wondering, what part of OpenServer is actually open?
Is is the code they "borrowed" from Linus?
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
It'll all be evidence against him in his "unfair restraint of trade" lawsuit that someone will no doubt bring against SCO when they lose the IBM suit...
I predict that SCO will not be bought out and will not make big bucks suing people. I predict that THEY will be sued and brought to bankruptcy by the lawsuits within the next couple of years.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Two things
0 7-03.cfm, Caldera bought DR-DOS $400K, but got from law suit $155,000,000.
e .jhtml?articleID=10818216
0 .html also has a SCO spokesman refering to patents
1. According to http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2003/city_2003-
As far as I know (I guess somebody could check) they didn't purchase the UNIX source, or value it in their SEC reports, for anything like $1bn, or $3bn, let alone $50bn... so how can they claim billions of damages, if they bought it for a few millions, and valued it of the same order?
2. I keep seeing patents in lots of news articles about the case. My understanding is the case is about alleged contractual violations, alleged trade secret issues and alleged unfair competition etc.,
http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNews/showArticl
"McBride, who is fluent in Japanese, will visit with several founding members to show them code samples in which the Linux open-source operating system allegedly violates SCO's Unix patents, said an SCO spokesman"
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,59551,0
So the obvious questions are:
- Is the press getting it wrong?
- If the press is indeed getting it wrong, why are they (and not just one news source) getting it wrong?
Just want to straighten everyone out on the Caldera suit against MS several years ago. A lot of people here seem to regard that suit as part of the same pattern SCO is persuing in the current fiasco.
In fact, Caldera's suit agains MS was far more similiar to Netscape's. MS screwed DR-DOS in the market-place with FUD, and technically by coding Windows 3.1 to break under it. Given MS-DOS's origins, it's likely that it had lots of copied code from it.
Furthermore, Darl & Co. weren't involved in the DR-DOS suit. Ray Noorda basically took it from Novell (or off their hands) when he left to run Caldera.
A lot of people approved of Caldera's actions at the time, because they clearly had a strong case and it was also clear that MS had strong-armed DR-DOS in the same way that eventually got them pulled into anti-trust court and declared a monopoly.
In other words, the DR-DOS case was a very different situation with a largely different set of characters involved. Microsoft deserved what it got there.
Linux, however, clearly doesn't deserve this shit.
RIght.
Also Linus himself calls distributions Linux. Its his OS right? Yes it just the kernel bla bla but last time I checked only debian called itself Gnu/Linux.
1.)People call it Linux so its Linux.
2.)Only Debian can offer a truly "gnu" system so its the only distro that calls itself gnu/linux.
According to the gpl you can not have any proprietary or other freeware that is not gnu in your product and release it under the GPL. Also the license does not require a product to call itself gnu/x if its released under the gpl or does it require the author to assiocate his or her product as part of "gnu". However you can not call something "gnu" if its not released properly under the GPL.
This is why redhat Linux is linux while Debian is Debian gnu/linux.
http://saveie6.com/
This move just proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this whole SCO escapade is publicity stunt designed to hurt Linux.
The only way to get fluent in Japanese is to live in Japan. If the article is true and McBride is fluent, then we can assume he has spent some time in Japan and knows something about business in Japan. This means he knows, that no matter what he tries in Japan, he will get absolutely nothing accomplished as far as suing the major Japanese players is concerned.
What he will get, however, is many industry leading, powerful corporations agreeing with him publically.
That is the Japanese way, maintain the "wa" (harmony.) Stay in agreement publically, while internally things are very different. McBride will use this "Public agreement" of Sony, Hitachi, Matsushita, Sharp, Phillips, Samsung, NEC, and Toshiba to cast even more FUD about linux. "Hey look, IBM may not think we have a case, but the Japanese giants unanimously agreed with everything we said."
This move is very, very smart for McBride if he plays it right. May he fry in hell.
Can we just moderate SCO -1 Troll
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit
Comment removed based on user account deletion