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Record Labels Looking for a Cut of Tour Revenues

Anonymous Coward writes "As many a Slashdotter has pointed out, musicians make their money not from selling records but from going on tour. Now record labels are trying to get a piece of the action. 'Now the music labels, hungry for revenue from any source, are mulling over whether to make a grab for a piece of the tour biz. One company already has: In October EMI Recorded Music signed a deal with Brit singer Robbie Williams that gives the label a cut of the pop star's merchandise, publishing, touring revenue and sponsorship.'"

82 of 332 comments (clear)

  1. This just in..... by mrjive · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...major corporations want more money.

    Full story tonight at 11

    --
    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin
  2. Not surprising by seinman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm surprised it took them this long. I mean come on, there's a way for them to bilk the artist out of more of their earnings, and they didn't do it? That's not the recording industry I know!

    1. Re:Not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Is this as bad a deal as it appears? Notice that the guy voluntarily signed - in order for him todo that, they had to offer something that he felt was worth signing. Maybe promotional things, perhaps transportation costs, etc.

      Also, note that the record label gets a percentage of the artist's earnings. This is a complete reversal of the record model, where the label gets it all, and the artist gets a precentage.

      I don't think the sky is falling.

    2. Re:Not surprising by __aaakhl8499 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I mean come on, there's a way for them to bilk the artist out of more of their earnings, and they didn't do it? Robbie Williams signed an 80 million pound ($130,000,000) contract with EMI (bbc link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/267 3983.stm). For an artist who is virtually unknown in the US, that's enormous! I can only speculate that part of the contract included 'advances' on expected revenue from his tours... I know I'd rather have cash in hand than gamble on the vagaries of teeny pop tastes...

    3. Re:Not surprising by digitalunity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Note:

      Robbie Williams is not unknown in the US. He has had several singles released, several music videos made, and many albums sold. We 'mericans just aren't fanatic about him like them european folk.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    4. Re:Not surprising by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is this as bad a deal as it appears? Notice that the guy voluntarily signed - in order for him todo that, they had to offer something that he felt was worth signing

      How about "they offer the artist a chance to not have his career shot by reducing his radio air time, making sure they promote other artists better, or making him sign insane contracts ?" Is that worth signing for ? I doubt very much the record industry has genuinely something to offer that artists want to sign for. I'm even quite sure they don't even even have to say "or else" after saying "sign this" to an artist for the artist to comply.

      In the '30s, there was a guy in Chicago who offered such "services" to local businesses.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    5. Re:Not surprising by chimpo13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's probably done in the 80 million pound advance against future profits. I'm sure the labels will hold him liable if they don't make that much money off him. That's what they do.

      You should read Steve Albini's article The Problem With Music.

      Here's the 1st paragraph:

      Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke". And he does of course.

    6. Re:Not surprising by Smidge204 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how both sides can "win" with that arrangement.

      I pay you $20M if you give me 25% of your profits. I only win if you make more than $80M (thus recovering my $20M outlay and more for profit).

      But if you made over $80M, then *you* lose 25% of all profit over over $80M.

      If you make less than $80M, then *I* lose out, since my 25% cut won't even over my "investment", but you come out slightly ahead.

      That sounds more like insurance for the artists than an investment. - You buy insurance from me in ase your tour makes less than $80M.

      Now who do you think insurance policies REALLY benefit in the long run? And with the amount of money tours generate, that strikes me as a pretty stupid policy to buy because you'ld have to really bomb to make a decent profit or really, really good for me to make a decent profit.

      Maybe it is more like "protection money"...
      =Smidge=

    7. Re:Not surprising by jmccay · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The smart artists will tell the Record companies where to go, and then start marketing using the internet to market there products. They can promote their albums by using file swapping. They can pave the way for a new model of salling their products. The reality of the situation is that the record companies are obsolite!

      --
      At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
    8. Re:Not surprising by Frymaster · · Score: 5, Interesting
      "they offer the artist a chance to not have his career shot by reducing his radio air time, making sure they promote other artists better, or making him sign insane contracts ?"

      bingo. remember that a "major" record label is, by definition, a label that owns its own distribution and promotion network (which is why you sometimes see albums with the indie label logo and a major's logo on the back. the major is the distro channel).

      while this combo can be a good "package deal". it means that the artist is tied to one label for everything - the product, the promo, the distro. there's no shopping around.

      witness the band "drive like jehu". originally they were headhunter, and indie from san diego, distributed by cargo (of montreal). their first lp did remarkably well, so they moved to capitol to get "better distro and promo". the second album was considerably different than the first and capitol decided that they didn't want to be involved with dlj anymore - so they killed the distro. three weeks after the release, the busiest hmv in my city had exactly one copy.

      of course, dlj couldn't shop the product to another distro company. they'd signed a contract. in the end, the band broke up. (two of the members are in the hot snakes now... in case yr a fan).

      so, the moral is this: if you sign with a major, they hold all the cards and can leverage release schedules, distro, promotional material &c. against you to force you to renogiate.

      nb: dlj's contract stipulated that the vinyl release of that second lp could be done by headhunter. that was a pretty rare condition. but for a year it was the only way to get that album, in my city at least! nb also that the abovementioned album was eventually re-released last year by swami records - an indie.

    9. Re:Not surprising by Malcontent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If things are that bad why aren't there more labels? The RIAA is evil and makes lots of money but couldn't an ethical record company be formed that makes less money but treats artists better?

      I know that there are a billion little labels how come one of them is not growing?

      Something seems wrong here.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    10. Re:Not surprising by Total_Wimp · · Score: 2, Informative

      True, if the guy makes more than $80 million he'll have to give some of his profits to the record lable. But he gets $20 million dollars to invest as he pleases right now.

      Both sides win because the needs of each side are different. One side needs/wants cash quickly while the other side prefers more cash but is willing to wait for it.

      Instead of insurance you might want to think of it like an IPO. You're giving away some of your potential profits in exchange for instant cash; something not easily come by.

      TW

    11. Re:Not surprising by valisk · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or maybe they offered him $80 Million upfront to sign a seven record deal and agree to take a cut of his future non Record label earnings as well as pay record promotional expenses out of their own pockets whilst Robbie agreed to produce the music in his own studio?

      --

      Economic Left/Right: -0.62
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69
  3. They just now figured this out? by taped2thedesk · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Umm... hello? They haven't done this already?

    I thought a big part of the RIAA's argument is that the labels have to underwrite the promotion and some of the costs for the tours... If this is true, then shouldn't they have already been taking a cut from the tour profits? Maybe I'm wrong here. I'd check out the RIAA's site, but it appears to be down...

    1. Re:They just now figured this out? by mjmalone · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I thought a big part of the RIAA's argument is that the labels have to underwrite the promotion and some of the costs for the tours...

      From what I have read this is not true. Most record contracts state that all/most costs related to marketing and distribution will be recouped from the artists cut of the CD sales, not the record companie's. Of course this means if the record doesn't sell well the record company doesn't get all that money back through the artist's cut... But it also means the artist will get nearly nothing.

      I wrote a paper for school on how I morally justify downloading mp3s which outlines the way most record contracts work.

    2. Re:They just now figured this out? by BroncoInCalifornia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      $18 a CD. The artists (most of them at least) do not get a cent from the CD sales. The CDs and packaging cost pennies to make.

      But the record companies are losing money. This is like screwing up a wet dream! So they now decide to screw the artists even more!

      They need to change to a new business model. Promoting Artists should not be so expensive. Web sites and Internet Radio are inexpensive ... Wait - The internet Radio stations have to pay a tax to the RIAA.

      The Music business will not get better until some of the major labels go under. It is a shame the record stores are going under first.

      Here is a way to help the record stores and keep money out of the hands of the major labels:
      Buy the CDs used. Copy - Then sell the CD back to the record store at a lower price.

      --

      Religion is the main cause of atheism.

  4. Who cares? by SamBeckett · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No one is forcing the artists to sign a contract with record label X-- if they dont like the terms, find another record label who has terms you agree with. If none exist, well you are up the river without a paddle, but Juicy cranberries grandma!

    1. Re:Who cares? by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 4, Interesting
      No one is forcing the artists to sign a contract with record label X-- if they dont like the terms, find another record label who has terms you agree with.

      My understanding is that what the labels often tend to do is sign a 'quick' pre-contract agreement that pretty much locks up the musicians, then starve them into signing.

      Quick, nasty and effective. The trick for the musician is to actually pay attention before signing such 'quick and harmless' agreement in principles -- but the young and eager are often blinded by apparent opportunity.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    2. Re:Who cares? by barc0001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow. That's good.

      Did it ever occur to you that most bands starting out have less ability to dictate terms to a record label than people who are getting their first mortgage have with the bank? It works like this:

      (label rep) : Here's our terms. Sign right there and we'll bring you onboard.
      (band) : Hang on, we are a little unsure about this point here. Can we alter it?
      (label rep) : Truth be told, I came to town to cut a deal with a band. If you don't like these terms, there are 3 other bands I'm talking to that I'd be just as pleased to go with.

      At this point, the band either signs a draconian contract agreeing to give away God knows what, or the A&R rep walks and does business with someone else and the first band continues to play at dingy nightclubs ad nauseum. Fair? No. Life? Yes.

      More here on exactly how that works and how bad the band is screwed.

  5. Makes sense... by Sheetrock · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A lot of times, the label is putting a fair chunk of change into promoting the tour, booking the appropriate venues, and getting things done in general. I could see a decent tour costing the same as producing a CD, if not more when they go multinational.

    I don't think it's wholly inappropriate. I know we're paying more for CDs than we probably should, but the one has nothing to do with the other.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




  6. This is all the .mp3 pirates' fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    If pirates had just bought the damn CDs instead of illegally downloading them, the record companies wouldn't have to do this. You caused this.

    1. Re:This is all the .mp3 pirates' fault. by mjmalone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True... Partly... the problem is the record companies see that they are no longer needed. Their main function was to act as a source of loans and to distribute music. Recording music is no longer expensive, and distribution can be done over the internet. Who needs record companies anymore?

  7. In realted news.. by Valiss · · Score: 5, Funny

    ....the record labels are now requiring musicians to give up their first born in order to breed a new race of pop stars.

    --

    -Valiss
    1. Re:In realted news.. by garcia · · Score: 3, Funny

      nah, they just create them out of thin air. Or is that they just disappear into thin air? Something like that.

    2. Re:In realted news.. by antiMStroll · · Score: 3, Funny

      Apparently screwing artists directly hasn't been successful.

    3. Re:In realted news.. by mrpuffypants · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unless you date Britney Spears!

      Britney Spears comes clean; not a virgin!

      Zing!

  8. artificial scarcity versus real scarcity by Thinkit3 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ok, to the animals who don't get the "theft" thing, a concert has real scarcity. If I copy your ticket, both our asses can't sit down in that seat. A recording has only artificial scarcity. Copying your cd has no effect on you. So this is a good thing. Let them act as promoters.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
    1. Re:artificial scarcity versus real scarcity by bucky0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, unfer your analogy, would it be fair to do this?

      The ultra-cool band X is releasing it's highly anticipated album, "Album X". Hundreds of thousands of people wait out in front of the record store at midnight to get the new album. Just before midnight, however a man says that he will sell people burned copies of CD's for $3 a piece. Of the 100,000 people who were sitting outside the store waiting to purchase the CD, 99,000 people chose the burned CD because it's cheaper.

      Instead of grossing 100k x
      They receive 1k x
      Is that fair to the artist or the record store?

      Please reply because i'm wanting to understand the logic that went on in your post

      --

      -Bucky
  9. who needs record labels? by Pompatus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At this rate musicians won't even worry about getting signed to a label. A couple friends of mine do quite well playing local gigs. Of course, here in New Orleans, live music is plentiful.

    Don't get me wrong, this wont happen anytime soon. I wonder, though, what the threshold is before it pays to stay home and play in your local club.

    --

    ----
    Squirrel ... It's not just for breakfast anymore
  10. Was Robbie forced to sign the contract? by mikeophile · · Score: 3, Insightful
    He was paid $20 million up front for the stake in his non-music revenues.

    Record companies are not the nicest people, but the spin on this submission is that they are somehow robbing the artists.

    There are enough things to berate the music industry over without having to fabricate injustice that isn't there.

    1. Re:Was Robbie forced to sign the contract? by scalis · · Score: 2

      He was paid $20 million up front for the stake in his non-music revenues.
      Record companies are not the nicest people, but the spin on this submission is that they are somehow robbing the artists.


      I remember Robbie screaming "I am filthy rich" at a press conference I saw on TV after signing this deal. Althouh I seem to remember Maria Carey that got paid to NOT make music. I wonder wich concert I have to visit to sponor that deal?

      I was just waiting for someone to post this exact comment about Robbie getting his share so I could mod him up.
      Oh no! I posted instead and now I cant mod! Bummer :\

      --

      True ravers don't need drugs
    2. Re:Was Robbie forced to sign the contract? by ryanr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Robbie isn't the problem. The problem is struggling artists, and mking it "normal" for the record companies to take one more source of revenue from them.

      No, no one is forcing the artists to sign a contract, but they really have little choice if they want to be professional musicians at this point.

  11. This is what we've been suggesting they do. by Valar · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is what many slashdot users have been suggesting they do, so I don't understand the negative attitude all of the sudden. Remember the "they're going to have to change their business model" speech everyone was giving a couple of years ago? This is that change. Mind you, in typical record label fashion, they aren't going to mark down CDs any or ease off of the filetrading litigation, because that would still cost them *something*. That is the part everyone should criticize, that there is no quid pro quoa (spl?). Sure, they don't have to give their customers something in exchange no the markup on ticket prices we will no doubt see, but it might hurt them in the long run if they don't...

  12. Oh, great. by Patik · · Score: 4, Funny
    Now how am I supposed to actually support an artist I like? Just mail them a check?

    1. Re:Oh, great. by whig · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is not such a bad idea.

      More artists should put up a website with a button that lets people contribute to them by the method of their choice, using PayPal (ugh) or whatever.

      Even if it's just a buck or two, think of it like a tip jar. You want your favorite artists to be supported, so support them.

      --
      Peace and love, y'all
  13. Total music revenue almost unchanged... by ponxx · · Score: 4, Informative

    I found this interesting from the article:

    > While music sales have dropped for three years in a row, from $13 billion to $11.5 billion in
    >2002, hurt by Napster-style digital piracy and a lackluster flow of hot new acts, the tour
    >business has climbed for four years straight, from $1.3 billion in 1998 to $2.1 billion last year

    So in total, money spent on music has gone down from 14.3 to 13.6 billion. A small change in a time of economic uncertainty. I imagine people will always spend a similar amount of money for entertainment, just the patterns of expenditure change. Ripping an MP3 off the net will never compare to a live performance.

    Similarly, movie studios don't have to worry. Seeing a decent movie on DivX makes me want to go to the cinema for the proper experience. LOTR, Matrix, ... just have to be seen on a big screen.

    Anyway, the studios should make money where the consumer wants to spend it, and stop whinging when their lack of innovation stops them from earning.

    Ponxx

  14. Turn this around by rossz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anything they can pass of as "promotions" is charged to the artists' potentional royalty payments. Oddly enough, this usually eats up ALL royalties due.

    The artists should start counting every single expense of a tour as promoting the album and demand credit for it.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
  15. Isn't this the greedy musicians' fault? by raehl · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're willing to sign away your profits in the future for that fat advance now, the only one to blame is you. On the other hand, maybe the only way to get anyone to listen to your crappy music is to get a major label to spend millions promoting it, in which case giving a percentage of the tour revenues you wouldn't be making without selling your soul to the record company is a good deal anyway.

    Remember, we don't have Britteny Spears because she is a musician. We have Brittany Spears because a record company invested millions of dollars in creating her. It's only fair that they get a cut of the tour revenues she never would have had at all without their promotion.

    In modern society, there is no reason to make a deal with the devil for fame and fortune - just call up EMI.

  16. And Why Not? by dbretton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These days, with very few exceptions, the biggest stars are all manufactured by the record labels anyway. The labels engineered many of these pop , or perhaps 'puppet', sensations that so many people go 'ga-ga' over.

    Perhaps the better question is: why have some of these engineered musical groups earned so much, when their popularity and following is almost entirely due to the label's efforts?

    "But, why me?"
    "Because you fit the suit."
    -The Brady Bunch, "Johnny Bravo"

  17. What terms? by samjam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the artists have accountants as good as the record labels they can surely manage to make a "loss" on all the tours after charging "consultancy" and "music services" etc, and having their own highly paid company of roadies, etc.

    Give the record labels a taste of their own accounting!

    1. Re:What terms? by beta21 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As much as I'd love to belive that I don;t think that will happen.

      Stan Lee made this mistake for Spider man, most ppl know to ask for a percentage of the revenue flow not profits.

      But it would be soooo nice to see record companies blunder

    2. Re:What terms? by Gherald · · Score: 3, Funny

      How about we just count the entire music industry a "loss"? Would everyone please just STOP LISTENING TO MUSIC?

      This would solve all our problems. No RIAA, no lables, no artists, NO MUSIC!

      Then Slashdot would be free of all this "Evil RIAA" mumbo jumbo and we can get on to discussing IMPORTANT things, such as the up and comming, breathtaking new release of awk !

    3. Re:What terms? by Aadain2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But then the RIAA will just blame the complete lack on music sales as overwhelming proof that the online piracy threat is real and that they should be allowed to hack into peoples' computers and blow them up if they feel like it. This would be a bad thing!

      --
      Space for rent, inquire within
    4. Re:What terms? by letxa2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If the artists have accountants as good as the record labels they can surely manage to make a "loss" on all the tours after charging "consultancy" and "music services" etc, and having their own highly paid company of roadies, etc.

      Agreed. And if they can't manage that, well, at that point I hardly feel sorry for the artists. The artists currently get shafted by the RIAA and yet they put up with it, but it's mostly tradition. If I were an artist and the RIAA bow told me, "Hey, not only aren't you going to make any real money off of CDs, we want a piece of your tour money" I'd well and truly tell them to take a flying leap.

      I keep wondering when the artists themselves are going to leave the RIAA en masse. It's becoming completely clear that these heavy rockers that preach rebellion are too much sheep to actually follow their own advice.

    5. Re:What terms? by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Music is a part of our culture. We shouldn't let the RIAA take that from us.

      Instead, we should take music away from the RIAA. The technology for production and promotion is here, today. Make music outside the RIAA, heck, outside any label if you want to. Buy music from indie artists and honest indie labels. Create a new music industry apart from the RIAA and its members, and watch them shrivel and blow away.

      It is the artists and the people that must be free.

      And the RIAA sharks with their decades of enslaving artists and gouging their customers is evil.

      Bells are ringing: Mothra, Mothra! Every heart is calling: Mothra, Mothra!
      Come on, Tok Wira, these sharks have gotta pay! New Kirk calling Mothra, we need you today!

  18. What a crock by FreeUser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A lot of times, the label is putting a fair chunk of change into promoting the tour, booking the appropriate venues, and getting things done in general. I could see a decent tour costing the same as producing a CD, if not more when they go multinational.

    Um, no.

    The record label is putting a great deal of the Band's future earnings into promoting the band, mostly in promoting their CD sales, of which the band will receive $0.25-$0.50 per copy. Any promotion of the band, be it their CDs (the bulk of the promotion) or their tour is all charged to the band. In the end the recording companies, while taking the Lion's share of the CD profits (and now, soon, the touring profits as well), pays absolutely squat for promotion.

    Hopefully this new development will encourage more bands to avoid the clutches of the recording industry and market direct, or use non-traditional channels such as mp3.com once was to reach their audiences. With luck this final act of hubris will be enough to kill those parisites dead, something that would be very good for artists and fans alike.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  19. Jay's Opinion: by dbretton · · Score: 2, Funny

    Fuck the La-bels
    Fuck, fuck fuck
    Fuck the La-bels

    for all you Jay & Silent Bob fans.

  20. Independant by jonman_d · · Score: 3, Interesting

    People, the answer is simple! VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLAR! CD-Baby.com has a load of GOOD music, and not a dime of your money goes to the RIAA.

    This is the ONLY way that the RIAA will understand that we're not going to take their shit anymore.

  21. Labels been getting cuts for a long time... by JDRipper · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is not news. Labels have been digging their claws into concert revenue for years. When I was with the first Warped Tour, Sony was taking a 20% (if I remember accurately) cut from all Merch sales which dramatically reduced the artist's share since they didn't want to raise T-shirt prices for the fans. When you add a Bill Graham (west coast promoter) fee of 35% on top of this at the former Concord Pavilion, it was enough to cause all the performers (except Sublime) to pull all their merch from the booths for that show. Fans end up paying regardless.

    --
    "You know Myra, some people might think you're cute. But me, I think you're one very large baked potato."
  22. Standard practice by ajs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I believe you'll find that this is the norm for all of the "manufactured bands" and "pop idols" that the industry created from scratch. Only the real artists get their own touring revenues, and the writing has been on the wall for them since the labels discovered that they could manufacture bands in just about any popular genre, not just bubblegum.

    Personally, I think it's a good thing.

    One of the reasons that artists are skeptical of online distribution of their music is the fact that it has the precise effect of making record lables think of those songs as valueless (which they are) and instead focus on tangible things that people will pay for (e.g. a concert with merchandise).

    Once artists and labels get used to this arrangement, though, there's no reason that the indy labels can't do the same, and then distributing the music cheap (or even for free) and making their money on the concerts too.

    A "label" in the Internet age should be... what? My feeling is that it should be a clearinghouse... a packager if you will that records/collects the band's or artist's music, sees to its quality of recording, adds lots of indexable info and then gets it to all of the online distributors (iStore, mp3.com, etc) that will "retail it". Heck, they could just run a Gnutella farm with a web-site full of reviews and other "value added" indexing, and a client-side plugin for downloading. Boom, instant high-bandwidth music distribution, and as long as the client has some basic incremental checksum system so that it can verify it's getting the exact file that you selected, you can be sure you're downloading what you wanted. That adds ad revenue to the label's list of sources.

    The margins on all of that are small to negative, but if they have an alternate source of income, then they can afford to do it, and there's really no reason that foobar label can't compete with EMI on equal footing.

    And you wondered why the RIAA was deathly afraid of file sharing... it's not because they thought their members would lose money, but because they KNEW that it had to lead to a decision about the value of music that they didn't want to have to make, and ultimately killing this goose once and for all!

  23. Greedheads by joshsnow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, labels, who claim to promote and thus 'make' and artist, are simply greedy for more action.

    Regarding Williams (a "pop star" I have no time for) EMI are taking a cut of his tours, merchandising etc but they've paid him, or are contracted to pay him, several millions of pounds over the next few years. When the deal was announced, Williams said, "I'm rich beyond my wildest dreams!"

    He'd better not speak so quickly. Mariah Carey was rich too, until Sony dropped her.

    Interestingly, Williams takes the attitude that Filesharing is a Good Thing. He actively encourages his fans to download his music.

    An attitude shared by Snoop Dogg, Chuck D and Courtney Love. Shame Britney Spears doesn't know what time it is yet...

    1. Re:Greedheads by David+Hume · · Score: 2, Informative

      Regarding Williams (a "pop star" I have no time for) EMI are taking a cut of his tours, merchandising etc but they've paid him, or are contracted to pay him, several millions of pounds over the next few years. When the deal was announced, Williams said, "I'm rich beyond my wildest dreams!"

      He'd better not speak so quickly. Mariah Carey was rich too, until Sony dropped her.


      (emphasis added)

      Mariah Carey was paid $21 million when she signed with EMI... and another $28 million to walk away. I think that qualifies as "rich." I don't think she has to worry too much about money.

      Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,43736,00.html

  24. Hilary Rosen is quoed as saying by ad0gg · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Bitch betta have muh money" while wearing a big hat with a feather in it

    --

    Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

  25. as if artists made money on record sales anyway by son_of_asdf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is more foolishness from an industry already rife with fools. 99% of the marjor label artists out there already make nothing off of thier record sales to begin with-even artists that have sold half a million albums generally haven't seen a penny's woth of royalties, via a process called recoupment. Recoupment means that the artist has to make back the money out of thier own royalites that the record label puts up for startup costs, which is everything from the recording sessions, new instruments, new clothes, makeovers, tour support (which is often very little), and various other costs of production. When you consider that a very fortunate artist who has a good lawyer might make 8 cents on the dollar when a CD is sold, you can see that it takes a LOT of record sales for a band to recoup. Meanwhile, the record company is getting the other 92 cents for every dollar, and is still sticking the band with the tab for EVERYTHING, which has to be paid out of that measly 8% or less. Labels rarely provide more than nominal tour support, particularly to thier 2nd tier artists (read as anyone who hasn't gone platinum.) The artist is expected to cover most tour costs via ticket sales and mechandising. To come to the point, for the labels to go dipping thier fingers into the only viable revenue stream that most artists have is only taking the highway robbery that they are committing already and taking it to the next level. Not that we should expect any better, since the majors have behaved like scum for decades, and are not likely to change anytime soon. Just my .02 dollars worth

    --
    Don't Panic!
  26. Grateful Dead by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Interesting


    There was just now a segment on ABC World News about The [Grateful] Dead's new model for making money off music. They record their shows every night, take orders from fans at the show, have their audio man master it, ship it off for duplication on CDs, and have it in the mail to the fan within about three days.

    Instead of the $1/album typically made by signed bands they make $8-$10 on the three-CD set that sells for $22. They've turned a quarter of a million dollars on the CDs from their performances at Red Rocks over the past couple of weeks.

    Not mentioned at the link, but Peter Jennings added that the music companies don't like being cut out of the loop like that.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:Grateful Dead by sllim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      About 'effin' time.
      When I first got a taste of MP3's I said to myself, 'You know, there is some real money in recording a live performance and then offering it for sale almost immediatly at the close of the show.'.

      It is this kind of thinking (and potential revenue) that the RIAA is missing out on with there constant whinning about piracy.

      Artsits today really only have one source of revenue, live performances. The Dead are not my cup of tea, however I have always admired there attitude towards recordings and concerts. I wish someone I liked would get a clue.

      I say that ALL LIVE PERFORMANCES should be recorded.
      High Quality MP3's should be sold onsite (that is right, non-DRM MP3's) immediatly following the show.
      Some people will buy, most will trade.

      If you price it correctly (to be certain to cover bandwith and such) then regardless of how many or few sales you make you can be gaurenteed to profit on this model.
      You can even complicate it a little and not hurt it too much, say offer lossless DRM protected software and MP3 (don't insult the user, keep it at 192k) for sale. There are people (especially people that attended that show) that will pay for the higher quality lossless recording.

      This will make the fans happy. We will feel appreciated. Right now we feel stepped on.
      It will also foster excitement for our chosen bands. Many, many people would make it there goal to collect as many concerts as possible.
      And you just simply cannot beat this as a form of promotion for upcoming shows.

      Not to mention upcoming albums. Throw in a new tune every now and then....

    2. Re:Grateful Dead by Zebbers · · Score: 2, Interesting

      and even then i bet the dead still allow fantapes too?

  27. sweet by August_zero · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is great news. Snot nosed little musicians owe all of their success to the selfless sacrifices made by the RIAA. All rock stars do is get drug habits, destroy hotel rooms, and go on "Behind the Music" after their careers are finished.

    Seriously though, wtf? i could sort of understand in the same way that I understand that evil mad scientists want to destroy the world sort of way, if there was any actual money in the process.

    All this is going to do is lead to pirated concerts. Bands will be kidnapped and forced to perform for free by angry fans.

    --
    On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
  28. Why sign to a label? by nerdup · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The most revealing part of the article to me was this:
    EMI officials say they are pursuing similar deals with other musicians, both superstars and new acts.
    Maybe Celine Dion can afford to have part of her touring revnue taken away, but what about smaller acts who likely walk onto the stage already owing the record company hundreds of thousands of dollars? So now the record companies want to start shaving money off the only place the musicians earn a living? Seriously, how will anyone be able to afford to be a musician?
  29. No it isn't by daveo0331 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The goal of a corporation is to make as much money as possible for the shareholders. If the record labels think they can make more money by going after the touring revenues, they'll do it, regardless of what is happening on the CD side of the business.

    This would be like saying Major League Baseball is charging more for TV rights because ticket sales are down. Believe me, if MLB thinks they can milk more money out of the TV networks, they'll do it no matter how many people go to the games.

    --
    Remember the days when Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility?
  30. CD sales decline NOTdue to economy by geekee · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "The concert business has never been bigger, in dissonant contrast to the recorded-music business. While music sales have dropped for three years in a row, from $13 billion to $11.5 billion in 2002, hurt by Napster-style digital piracy and a lackluster flow of hot new acts, the tour business has climbed for four years straight, from $1.3 billion in 1998 to $2.1 billion last year."

    So, if cd sales are dropping because of the bad economy, as /.ers claim, and not because of Kazaa, etc., then why have concert revenues been increasing over the last few years? The answer, cd sales are not down because of the bad economy, because then we'd see at least some correlation between concert sales and cd sales trends.

    --
    Vote for Pedro
  31. Correction by beaverfever · · Score: 2, Informative

    As many a Slashdotter has pointed out, musicians make their money not from selling records but from going on tour.

    Correction: As many a misinformed, incorrect Slashdotter etc., etc...

    Writing royalties are where artists make the big bucks.

    The idea that concerts and touring are the big money-makers is quoted fairly frequently, although it is the fantasy/excuse created and embraced by those who want, want WANT to believe that downloading free music has no ill effect on artists or performers.

    Yes, this is a bit of a digression, but let's keep the facts straight.

  32. Ipso Facto by Speare · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A lot of times, the artist is putting a fair chunk of creativity into producing the disc, selecting the appropriate instrumentation, and getting things done in general. I could see a decent disc requiring the same creative effort as performing on stage, if not more when they go multinational.

    I don't think it's wholly inappropriate. I know we're paying more for concerts than we probably should, but the one has nothing to do with the other.

    (Artists work their ass off to create new music, and get left only a few scraps on the initial sales. They don't retain copyrights, they don't get paid a substantial royalty, they don't see direct income from other artists who sample, they don't see direct income when Muzak destroys their rockin' ballad. The artist says goodbye to the wife for a few months of hauling their equipment from Fuckbum Indiana to Bumfuck Illinois to do a gig at Beerapalooza, which is a promotion in and of itself to entice the fans into donating to BorgUniversalSonyWarnerBMI. I think the artist and crew should get all the cash the ticket sales raise.)

    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
  33. Just the beginning... by Alizarin+Erythrosin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Soon labels won't sign an artist until they are guarenteed a cut of the tour proceeds, merchandice, etc... stuff that the artists usually took home all the profits on. I guess they figured out that they can't make all that much money by suing college students.

    --
    There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
  34. How Unfair by ocie · · Score: 2, Funny

    That money rightfully belongs to TicketMaster.

    --
    JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
  35. Re:I thought... by beaverfever · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Don't the labels get a fee whenever a song is performed? (Some of which might be back to the writer, if the label feels like it...) Wouldn't that include the artist performing their own song?

    Royalties are supposed to be paid when a song is performed. That royalty goes to whoever owns the copyright, which would be the artist if they were smart, or someone else if they voluntarily sold the rights to the song. It wouldn't include the artist performing their own song if they own the copyright.

    I guess the new part is wanting a percentage of merchansing? Oh, and the article says sponsorship, too. Ouch. You mean you can't even sell out to Pepsi without losing a cut, now?

    This comment makes it sound as if the labels are taking a cut without doing any work, like perhaps mafia protection money. Deals such as these are not extortion, but the record companies branching out into other areas of the entertainment business that have existed for years - merchandising; someone must make, market and sell the stuff - sponsorship; someone must produce the numbers and charts, seek out potential sponsors and sell the artist to them as a good marketing investment. This takes time, people and money.

    Right now these things are going on (whoever got Led Zepp their $500,000 fee from Cadillac took a cut), record labels just want to enter that part of the biz. If the artist thought someone else could do these things better, they are free to work with them. I could see big labels being in a good position to excel in these areas as they have lotsa cash to work with and plenty of contacts.

    Please notice that this article only discusses mega-huge acts. It could be a sound business move for a major artist and label to enter into all-encompassing contracts which cover recording, merchandising and touring, instead of bouncing back and forth between several companies. This type of deal probably wouldn't be effective with or for smaller acts.

  36. Another Nail in their coffin by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Informative

    At some point they are going to piss off all the consumers, who will stop buying anything.

    They will also piss off all the musicians who will no longer join the *AA in the first place.

    This is just one more step towards that 'apparent' goal.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  37. Once again, Metallica are the trailblazers by leviramsey · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ten years ago, Metallica's original contract with Elektra (signed in 1984), expired and there was a lot of competition from every label in the business to sign them to a new contract (after all, their untitled 1991 album was well on its way to being one of the bestselling albums of all time, and its predecessors were storming off store shelves). Metallica and Elektra reached an agreement that basically made Metallica completely independent of the RIAA. The arrangement that was reached was the creation of a corporation E/M Ventures, with the four members of the band, their management (Q Prime), Elektra being the sole shareholders (IIRC, the breakdown was something like 22% Lars Ulrich, 22% James Hetfield, 16% Kirk Hammett, 10% Jason Newsted, 15% Q Prime, and 15% Elektra). Elektra transferred the copyrights on all the catalog recordings (1983-1991) to E/M as their investment, along with a record deal that would pay E/M Ventures royalties equal to 50% of the wholesale price (in other words about $4 to %5 per album, or $7 to $8 per double album), with no deductions for anything (all record production and promotion expenses would be handled by E/M). This deal only expires when a simple majority of the voting shares decides to terminate it and buy back Elektra's share.

    Elektra basically makes little to no money (apart from their share of E/M's profits) on the sale of a Metallica CD... all costs related to manufacturing and distribution are eaten by them. However, they're making this money with little risk; Metallica can put out basically anything and it will go platinum, simply on the strength of a rabid fan-base (much like Rush's, but probably at least twice the size).

    E/M owns all aspects of Metallica's business interests. The tours are done by E/M (or subsidiaries thereof). The merchandising revenues are to E/M. Thus, Elektra gets a cut of all those revenue streams, which are actually even bigger than the recording streams. Elektra also gets a cut of international record sales by Vivendi and Sony. Metallica gets out of this what effectively amounts to total independence from the system. Even if Elektra doesn't want to release something, they're obligated to manufacture and distribute it, otherwise they forfeit their share (for no compensation, through breach of contract).

  38. Artists vs Labels? WRONG, Labels vs Clear Channel! by DMaster0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The artists already give a cut to someone, and it's called the promoter. Currently, the big boy in the business is Clear Channel. http://cc.com/

    Currently, the way it works is that you have to schedule tours through Clear Channel for the most part. There are some local organizations who will properly get promotion and venue arrangements in place, but even then they have to usually give a cut to Clear Channel for the rights to promote someone. Anyone who's worked in a campus concert promtion board knows that you mostly have to pay off Clear Channel before an artist will schedule a date on their tour in your city. For big artists Clear Channel may get $100k up front, smaller ones maybe as little as a few thousand, but they get paid before a single ticket is sold. The venue then takes their cut of the gate, extracts the costs from the leftover and then gives the rest to the artist, and in some cases a cut of that goes to Clear Channel again, depending on how it was negotiated. Merchandise is usually only split with the venue, but it wouldn't surprise me to see some of it go to Clear Channel also.

    There used to be a rate card published for clear channel's upfront fees for an artist, but I can't find it anymore and it may not have been a public site. It is very interesting to see how much it would cost a venue promoter to book an artist, as some of them make quite a lot of money just for showing up.

    If anything, I'd see Clear Channel getting pissed before the artists, because at the very least this would give artists an option of who to let them promote their tour in the future. Clear Channel or their record label directly, either way the artist is going to drop at least %20 of whatever the gate is, so you can deal with the devil you know, or....

  39. Ask any Slashdotter... by ktakki · · Score: 5, Insightful
    As many a Slashdotter has pointed out, musicians make their money not from selling records but from going on tour.

    Just because "many a Slashdotter" has pointed something out doesn't make that statement true.

    Most musicians make more from CDs that sell enough to get past the break-even point (i.e., after the label has recouped its expenses) than they do from touring. (Note: I said "most" so put your Phish back in your trousers please.)

    Touring expenses are enormous. Living in hotels 200 days out of the year? Not cheap, and you still have morgage/rent payments to make on your primary residence. The venue owners take a massive cut of the gate, and a large part of that goes to their expenses (insurance, union labor, security, etc.).

    Touring for the large majority of acts is a break-even proposition at best. The exceptions are the Grateful Dead-like acts that can count on people who are willing to see a dozen of their shows every year and those "top-tier" arena acts (U2, Springsteen, Stones, et. al.) who can charge between $75 and $300 for a single seat. And those dinosaurs still make more from a CD (since they have name recognition and the label's not afraid of spending $1M to promote a low-risk release).

    For the rest of the acts on tour, live shows are a means of promoting an album, thus a modest loss is an acceptable cost of doing business. No CD, no tour, unless they can take advantage of the economy of scale afforded by a multi-act tour (like Lollapalooza).

    Touring is an extremely inefficient way of reaching listeners. Four to six weeks in the studio can produce a recording that millions will buy (and millions more will hear on the radio). To reach a million concert-goers, a band would have to play 50 nights of sold-out hockey rinks (20,000 seats), which with travel time and days off approaches three months on the road.

    As for revenue streams, retail sales aren't the only source of income from a recording. There are royalties from airplay (heard any live cuts on the radio lately?), and from soundtrack and commercial uses. I wonder if you asked "any Slashdotter" what a transcription royalty was or the origin of mechanical royalties whether you'd get a correct (or even coherent) answer.

    Finally, here's a quite from Robbie Robertson, late of the band The Band about touring:
    The road has taken a lot of the great ones...it's a goddamned impossible way of life.

    Of course, I don't see what goes on here making a damn bit of difference with respect to the Byzantine construct known as the music industry. Any Slashdotter could tell you that much.

    k.
    --
    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
  40. I Wrote a Contract Tracking System for EMI... by Brad+the+Informer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...and all I got was this lousy t-shirt!

    No seriously, I did help create a contract management system for EMI in the early 90's. Biggest piece of shit I ever worked on. No access to the subject matter experts (people who know what it should do), but plenty of "interpretation" from middle management types.

    It was made clear to us that the only purpose of record label contracts was to fuck the talent and maximize label profits. Advances on publicity costs for tours to promote the album, holdbacks on royalties until the label had turned a profit, "equalization" so that profits from one album were siphoned off to pay "expenses" incurred for others.

    On the other hand, there were stories about how the artists would occasionally score a victory. I think it was Dean Martin, beholden to his label for seven more albums, who showed up, dropped seven albums worth of shit tracks on the desk, and said "Ciao!"

    And Christ, don't get me started about the VP who would grab us at the end of the workday and shanghai us to Flash Dancers (Manhattan tittie bar) to force us to charge hundreds on our credit cards which we billed as meal expenses.

    Yuck, it's not just the talent who feel like we swam a river of shit for the music industry.

    1. Re:I Wrote a Contract Tracking System for EMI... by Detritus · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You just don't have a devious type of mind.

      What if the bar is owned by the VP's brother-in-law? The VP organizes periodic trips of "volunteers" to go to the bar and spend large sums of money, which are reimbursed by the corporation as meal expenses. It's a neat way of sucking money out of the corporation. Better yet, have the corporation charge the expenses against some recording artist's contract. Hey, it was a business meeting to discuss who should be in the artist's next music video.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:I Wrote a Contract Tracking System for EMI... by Kwil · · Score: 2, Informative

      On the other hand, there were stories about how the artists would occasionally score a victory. I think it was Dean Martin, beholden to his label for seven more albums, who showed up, dropped seven albums worth of shit tracks on the desk, and said "Ciao!"

      You only get away with crap like that once.

      I hear the standard boilerplate has now evolved to the point where it's the label that gets to decide what counts as a "marketable album" and they base your contract on a certain number of "marketable album".

      Hence the whole Prince thing. He wanted to go more experimental, but the record companies weren't having it, and his contract prevented him from putting out anything for anybody else until they got what they wanted.

      So much for the "creativity" that the RIAA purports to protect.

      --

      That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze

    3. Re:I Wrote a Contract Tracking System for EMI... by Lt+Razak · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Exactly right.

      Not only that, but they can shelve an artist indefinately if they think he/she isn't marketable. That means they're in limbo with no album-income, and not allowed to go elsewhere because they're still in contract for X more albums.

      Now that's slavery.

  41. Ebay Scalping by aSiTiC · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No one tell the RIAA but the real money is in scalping tickets for insane prices on Ebay. There are people making a good amount of money by buying tickets as early as possible on web and turning around to get a premium after tickets are sold out.

    I should know I just bought 2 tickets to see a Radiohead concert for $200 bucks on Ebay.

  42. Re:WRONG by letxa2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Record sales have declined as file sharing has increased. This is certainly a correlation, if not evidence. You will respond by saying "thats because the music sucks"

    It might be because the music sucks. It might be because the economy sucks. Many companies would love to have the slightly reduced profits that the RIAA is "suffering" right now.

    Or it could be that the product/service that the RIAA has been performing for the last 50 or 60 years is now completely obsolete.

    I tend to believe it's the latter. And I believe they realize that and that's why they're looking for this revenue stream. They'll essentially want some percentage of the tour so that the artists get radio play. This will work for the RIAA until the radio industry gets into the same business and cuts RIAA out as an intermediary.

    Any way you cut it, the RIAA is obsolete and will be history within 5-10 years, easily. But don't expect it go down without a fight.

  43. Lots of flaws.. by Kwil · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ..for a college level paper, you should receive a C at most.

    Anyway, to the flaws:

    1. None of your quotes are cited properly (if at all). A rigorous marker (like myself) would return the paper at this point with a note along the lines of "Don't pull this stuff from your ass, show me where" though I'd probably phrase it more politely than that on the actual paper.

    2. You haven't actually disproved the notion that file-sharing is the cause of lowered sales. You've provided a number of alternative explanations, all quite reasonable, but shown no evidence that any of your alternatives have any greater correlation to the sales drop than the record industries assertion of file-sharing.

    3. You give no proof of the assertion that "the current downward trend in record sales would have to continue for 10 years for a loss of 4 billion dollars to occur." Nowhere in the paper have you stated a dollar amount of what the record industry actually lost. The only amount is the 4 billion they state which you dispute on the basis that you, personally, could not find corroborative evidence, in your vast research which encompassed.. let's see here.. eight citations all from the web. Bibliophobe, perhaps? Still, this is an English paper, so maybe we can let that slide.

    4. Your blanket assertion that the DMCA is unconstitutional is on shaky grounds at best. If Lessig's argument that retroactive extensions applied directly to copyright are unconstitutional was not accepted, how will a law that says nothing about copyright terms at all likely be seen? If anything, this is more open, because there is nothing in the law that says companies cannot release some sort of "master key" that works once copyright is expired - and until they fail to do this once the copyright is expired, we can't say that the DMCA has prevented "limited times" from being expressed.

    5. Again, you assert something about the record industry (namely the terms of their contracts) without providing any type of citation as to where exactly you drew the material from.

    6. Don't piss around with numbers. If you're going to try and use numbers to back up your argument, you better be comparing apples to apples. So comparing a record contract that has various costs applied to it to a bar gig without also noting the various hidden costs there (transportation, accomodation, road-managers, merchandise costs, etc) is not exactly fair. Now, I'll readily admit that bands probably do make more, but by missing the details, you haven't shown it.

    That's some of the basic flaws with specifics.

    Looking at the whole thesis, the question immediately arises: What is the unjust law you are drawing attention to by your actions? Which law, specifically, does your downloading music protest? Have you informed those who might punish you for breaking the law that you are doing so, because if you haven't, it strikes that you are not willing to go by the words of MLK and accept the punishment. In fact, MLK was quite specific about that, it's not the act of breaking the law that's the protest, it's suffering the enforcement of it to draw attention to the injustice of the law.

    Until you do that, you're not some moral crusader, so stop pretending. Leave the moral crusades for those, like MLK Jr, who had the guts to go through with it.

    --

    That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze

    1. Re:Lots of flaws.. by DarkZero · · Score: 2, Interesting

      2. You haven't actually disproved the notion that file-sharing is the cause of lowered sales. You've provided a number of alternative explanations, all quite reasonable, but shown no evidence that any of your alternatives have any greater correlation to the sales drop than the record industries assertion of file-sharing.

      I agreed with everything that you said except for this part. The greatest evidence that has been shown for file sharing causing the RIAA's revenue to drop is a loose correlation between the beginning of file sharing and the beginning of the sales dip. He's offering other correlations as a counterargument. When you're arguing against the idea that a certain correlation caused a specific problem by bringing up several other correlations that could reasonably have caused the problem, doesn't the correlation just have to be EQUAL, not greater? The RIAA's argument is nothing more than a correlation that could easily be a coincidence or could even be a boon to their business that is cushioning what would've been a larger sales drop created by their lousy business practices. It relies upon a lack of reasonable alternative correlations that could've caused the problem.

      When the other side's argument is nothing more than the most reasonable assumption that anyone can offer at the time, I don't think you need concrete evidence to counter it, but rather just a reasonable doubt. The sales dip hasn't been thoroughly researched and given a concrete, factual cause yet because it is still relatively new, just like file sharing is. Therefore the discussion is a matter of theory vs. theory, not concrete, well researched fact vs. concrete, well researched fact.

  44. Timely lyrics from Rush by whatch+durrin · · Score: 2, Interesting
    While reading posts in this thread, I had Winamp playing randomly in the background. These lyrics are from the Rush song "The Spirit of Radio":

    1. Begin the day
      With a friendly voice
      A companion, unobtrusive
      Plays that song that's so elusive
      And the magic music makes your morning mood

      Off on your way
      Hit the open road
      There is magic at your fingers
      For the Spirit ever lingers
      Undemanding contact
      In your happy solitude

      Invisible airwaves
      Crackle with life
      Bright antennae bristle
      With the energy
      Emotional feedback
      On a timeless wavelength
      Bearing a gift beyond price ---
      Almost free...

      All this machinery
      Making modern music
      Can still be open-hearted
      Not so coldly charted
      It's really just a question
      Of your honesty

      One likes to believe
      In the freedom of music
      But glittering prizes
      And endless compromises
      Shatter the illusion
      Of integrity

      "For the words of the profits
      Are written on the studio wall,
      Concert hall ---
      Echoes with the sounds...
      Of salesmen."

    --
    ***
    Radio Shack. You've got questions...we've got blank stares(TM).
  45. Allow me to illuminate by clambake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is this as bad a deal as it appears? Notice that the guy voluntarily signed - in order for him todo that, they had to offer something that he felt was worth signing. Maybe promotional things, perhaps transportation costs, etc.

    Hi there, Bob, it's me, Chuck, you know, your RIAA rep? Well, Bob, We at the RIAA would like to offere you a draconian contract to suck a little more blood from the wound, if you know what I mean... How's that sound?

    No?

    Oh, Bob, I'm sorry to hear that, we'll, I guess we'll just have to go without. Oh yeah, before I forget, there is just one little thing...

    Remember that whole "five album deal" we made with you when you signed. Yeah, that one. Yeah, remember how in the fine print, it says you can't work with any other recording company until those deals are done? And remember that clause about how an album can't be released without our approval?

    Well, you see Bob, it seems that you've only released three albums so far, so you still owe us two more. Now, the way I see it buddy, You're going to need our approval to get those last two out. Now, I can't speak for the rest of the group, but I like you a lot. However, there are a few of us who are saying.. well, saying that they don't think you've got what it takes to get your last two albums approved.

    Yeah? Yeah, that's true, you COULD practice more, but Bob, the thing is, they think you just aren't a team player... I don't think they'd feel you deserve approval even if you were really good. Unless you could show us some of that RIAA team spirit...

    Yes, Bob? Oh, no, Bob, without those last two albums, you can't work for ANY label, even your for youself. Nope, can't sing another lyric, legally at least. Ah, we'll I wouldn't advise singing Happy Birthday to your grandmother, see that would be a public performance, and all....

    Oh, what's that you say? That draconian contract sounds fine to you after all? Oh, excellent! Oh wait a second, I think the RIAA percentages I quoted you before were off by, say, 20% (darn blurry faxes), but I'll have the revised copy sent to your trailer. Oh, I'm sorry, Bob, the line must be going bad, I could have sworn I heard cursing on the other line... It would be a shame if we had to.. oh, you didn't hear anything you say? Ah, so you agree? Right. 25%. Oh you heard 20%? Ah, that pesky line noise must have interfered... Or did I say 30%? That's a good boy, Bob. Yes you can come over later this afternoon and lick my car clean for me, that would be super.

    ciao!

  46. Re:Word up! by Stuart+Gibson · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh come on, if Radiohead weren't whining they lose they key demographic.

    Goblin

    --
    It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur shows up and trashes Neo-Tokyo... Again
  47. tipjars violate contracts by poptones · · Score: 2, Interesting
    You can't DO THAT. Why do you think Neil Young doesn't have a "tipjar?" And Tom Petty? And any other major label artist?

    Tipjars violate the "exclusive distribution" part. It would be pretty easy to show that "tipjars" are designed, form the start, to provide recompense to artists for otherwise illegal MP3 downloads, which means that "tipjar" is violating the record company's exclusive license to US (and, likely, euro) distribution.