Slashdot Mirror
Making Freenet Find Stuff Faster
Sanity writes "Many probably saw the recent announcement of Freenet 0.5.2. This release represented a vast amount of work - primarily in reducing Freenet's CPU and memory requirements. However, streamlining Freenet's current functionality isn't all we've been working on. I just finished an article that describes the most fundamental improvement to Freenet's core algorithm since its original design over three years ago, it is called "Next Generation Routing" and has the potential to dramatically increase the speed with which Freenet retrieves information. It could even make Freenet faster than the World Wide Web in many circumstances, all without compromizing anonymity and while remaining immune to the /. effect."
freenet still isint there yet, but feel free to tell us when.
Freenet is an awesome idea, and very rapidly becoming one that is neccesary to ensure your protection. Although it is a double edged sword (It can help both good, and bad people), I think it's one that is neccesary. And, if it becomes speedier than the web at large, it'd be just freaking awesome. Now, no one needs to fear censorship, nor do they need to fear the government shoving them into a database.
Now if only I could get it running on my Mac OS X box...
"immune to the /. effect."
:-)
If this isn't a challange I don't know what is
-traskjd
My blog [.net, rants, general IT]
The /. effect is like a worm which infects every network on the face of this planet..
> ... and while remaining immune to the /. effect
Said the author of the slashdotted article.
Those using browsers that support the "mng" animation format (such as Mozilla) can see an animation of a node's datastore specializing over time here.
That's not true anymore, communists Mozilla maintainers removed mng support to save a 'whopping' 100k download.
He said Freenet was immune, not Sourceforge
Other than the fact that most infringers do not like to use Freenet because it is too clunky for them to get their quick hit of free music, it is no more of a threat than any of the popular P2P services.
Translation: "Oh Lord, I hope Freenet is inherently unable to have robust search functions, because if it ever develops these, we're hosed. But in the meantime, we can dismiss this software as being a big POS."
Now, less than two weeks after the interview, it seems the one aspect of Freenet that Oppenheim wanted to write off at is on the brink of being fixed.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
From Slashdot FAQ:
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
Instructions for windows and linux and linux compatables.
Windows : Right click the rabbit icon in your system tray, then click upate to latest snapshot build.
Linux : run update.sh in the freenet directory.
Nero-burning ROM for Linux!
You know what'd be really impressive? Finding a way to make FreeNet slower. It'd be so slow you could make a Beowulf cluster of FreeNet nodes and use it as a time machine. Personally, I'd use it to go back to Ian Clarke's dorm room and convince him to get drunk and high rather than wasting his life making a P2P system that will be useful around the same time we have to start worrying about being censored by the United Federation of Planets. But that's just me.
Oops ... wrong site :D
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Making freenet find stuff faster
How about saying making freenet find stuff faster five times fast?
muahuahahu
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
What I find interesting about this algorithm is that it is applied individually by each node; there seems to be no need for nodes to share data over some complicated protocol as in many distributed systems. Yet (I think we can believe Clarke) this change improves response time through the system as a whole. It's a validation of the basic Freenet model of systems acting alone but providing a service greater than the sum of its parts.
has anyone ever tried peekabooty, esp. under wine? The reflections on open source development the developer(s) feature on their website sound kinda depressed..but then again, the honesty factor speaks for them. Are there any deep flaws in the idea? I personally like the simplicity of their design, but since I'm not a design guru, I may be utterly wrong.
Slashdot is The Matrix!
Slashdotters are just the mindless people living out their lives in bliss. If you are a slashdotter, you are one of them and we can't trust you.
Knock Knock Freenet! The Matrix has you!
Here it is, The Matrix, but with AOL/M$/etc...and I wanted to see one with CowboyNeal as agent Smith, and Timothy and Michael as the other two agents, then the CmdrTaco robot releases the twins (NEOs; Penny Arcade) while American Greetings Sentinels seek and destroy...but the above URL will do just fine, for a slashdotting...mua-ha-ha-ha...
crashed my browser twice.
...at least not keyword searching as you find in Google and Kazaa. When they refer to searching they mean given a key (a very large number), finding the corresponding data.
Immunity to ignorant masses of /. users it is not.
/. crowd of joining, and here is the etiquet/advice I have.
:)
/1/ /2/ /3/ and link to images from the future. If the image loads, you know there is a more recent revision. date based must be activated every time interval, or they die. Be very careful with these.
/. effect immunity, they mean linking to a site will only make it stronger. Everyone on /. joining freenet is just going to slow it down, because basically, you are creating a great suction on the net without any data to give back. Even worse, when you quit off of freenet, everyone will be looking for you from their cache and not finding you. This is going to cause the most problems, but surely not everyone on /. are going to quit on the same day. ;)
I was in the first
Things to do if you plan on playing with freenet:
1. Set it up properly.
1a Set your IP in the config file, read the site for details, but it's freenet.ini
1b Try to use DynDNS if you have a dynamic IP
2c Leave it up 24/7 for a few days before you judge speed. You need to let the blood circulate
2. Install a proper version of Java. I recommend the 1.4.2 beta. IBM may work better, I haven't tried.
3. Fix your browser.
3a Your browser will crash on some sites (even Mozilla not Opera) because of a GIF bug.. patch it.
3b Set your number of simultaneous connections up a lot. You request a file from your local store, then it downloads it. You need to request as many in parallel as possible.
Now, on to advice.
Get Frost! Frost is like the news groups of the freenet. It's a great place to read interesting ideas.
If you want to make a site, check out Fish tools, Fuqid and FIW.
Be aware that there are 3 different kinds of sites, and two modes of getting information
3 types include interval based, revision, and static. Static sites are one time shots. Revisions you create directories like
There are SSK and CHK linking methods, which I still don't know a whole lot about, but maybe someone will reply and explain them.
By
Get IIP, so you can realtime chat with people that run some sites on freenet. #freenet is dedicated to freenet chat and issues.
Have fun!
(Posting anonymously in respect of the freenet principals.)
Makes you wonder if Freenet gained popularity over the web whether all "official" transactions would be web-based, leaving Freenet to misc. web sites that are completely information/communication based. The reason I wonder is because if someone gets their login/password stolen from some random service on Freenet which they invested mucho time in, how will anyone else know the difference? That would really irk me.. (Yes, I know the web is vulnerable to this as well, but at least it requires a user have an IP address -- whether or not it's actually legit.)
When will this new routing protocol be in the main freenet releases? As far as I can tell, it isn't in 0.5.2... Or does anyone know of a way to download and test a version that includes NGRouting?
Once the user has a copy of Freenet, there is no reliance on DNS. Further-more, Freenet is designed to be propagated through means other than via the Freenet website. Google for "Distribution Servlet" and "Freenet".
I just installed .52 and boy, is it unusably slow.
Two minutes to load the WARNING page in front of the main 'search engine' of sorts that it has.
Its worse than being on dialup. I'm all for the anonymity, but I'm on broadband, and it CRAWLS.
GPL'd web-based tradewars themed space game
This is incorrect. For networking related stuff, Java is efficient. It will use some more memory, and it will use (a bit more) CPU power but there are many reasons to go with java for such a project:
- easier language to pick up / understand (this is a collective effort)
- little to no chance of buffer overruns, making the node much safer against attacks)
- runs on Linux, Apple, Sun, Windows, FreeBSD without - any - porting
- java was more or less created with projects like these in mind, so most functionality will be readily available in the default libraries
Nowadays CPU and memory are commodities that can easily be come by. I see it taking about 32 MB right now, but that is out of a single 512 MB pool that can be upgraded to 1 GB for virtually free. My processor usage is max 25%, but note that the freenet guys set the priority to low themselves.
Java means a shift to better programming, with better runtime information and safer programs. This will take CPU and memory, but this is an offer you should consider very well.
This same discussion went on between assembler and C programmers. Look at it now. I think the progress of object oriented, garbage collecting, more secure platforms are as important as that paradigm shift.
Warper
Seriously. It is a bit ironic that the Freenet project doesn't run on a free system like Debian GNU/Linux. So there is an effort underway to Free Freenet! See the developer mailinglist archive. Please donate (Matthew Toseland - Toad - is the "Official Codemonkey" of the Freenet Project).
They thought it would be cool to design a censorproof network. They weren't interested in supporting what was already in development, namely Freenet, after all - where is the publicity in being part of someone else's project?
The only problem was that they dramatically underestimated the difficulty of pulling it off - the result? Peekabooty was, is, and probably always will be, vaporware. The design they do have is a primitive HTTP proxy network last time I looked, and it doesn't solve any of the difficult problems of circumventing censorship (just ask them how the poor little Chinese dissidents are supposed to find their HTTP proxies).
Amuzing, after draining the concept of a censor-proof network for all it was worth (without actually building one) - they then did their best to drain publicity from their failure to build it!
Freenet answers those questions, and has done so since its original design in 1999.
the nice thing about the current ng routing scheme is that there's plenty of room for research on how to tune it even further.
/me wanders if embedding fortran in java makes sense ;))
Note: if you haven't read the article, this won't make much sense to you.
For one, the number of reference points doesn't have to be fixed; if/when memory and cpu power allows us, we could have variable number of reference points per node. This opens the door to other decisions, such as whether we encourage clustering reference points. If yes, we add new ref points closer to others. If not, we remove a ref point the density within some keyspace interval gets too big. Another option is to add a new ref point whenever the n previous estimates turn out to be more than x% correct, and remove one if otherwise.
Another direction to go into is curve fitting. If cpu power allows us, we could use various techniques of polynomial or Fourrier interpolation within the existing reference points to draw more accurate curve of time vs. keyspace.
Don't go silently into that peaceful night
I don't know what a "challange" is, either.
If you actually read the download page you would see that Freenet starts out slow, because it needs to learn how to find information. Be patient, download some stuff, it will speed up.
I wish someone would regulate your bloody spelling.
My original language is not English, and I conditionally agree to reform my spelling if you stop bleeding all over me when you talk.
Thanks for clearing this up.
Freenet is about Freedom of Communication, not Free Software. Just because there is significant overlap between those that advocate each - does not mean that Freenet should spend its resources advancing the Free Software/Open Source agenda at the expense of its own.
The second URL that reads "http://familyguardian.com" was mistakenly typed and should be
familyguardian.tzo.com or Chris Hansen's mirror.
Please mod this up for people to recognize this fact. Thanks mods.
Bloody is a British way of saying "fucking."
That should read "I wish someone would regulate your fucking spelling."
...that someone actually bothered to read the article before posting.
This same discussion went on between assembler and C programmers. Look at it now. I think the progress of object oriented, garbage collecting, more secure platforms are as important as that paradigm shift.
If we are ever going to arrive there, we haven't gotten there yet. Java applications feel slow. I have not seen a single Java-based application where this was not the case. I have seen server-side implementations that aren't godawful slow, but they are not much different than ASP in terms of response- ie, not that great.
Developers thinking that 'Java is good enough' is not enough. I see the phrase 'implemented in Java' and I find an alternative immediately. Too many sludgy, anemic Java applications have scarred me.
If Freenet wants to catch on faster then a C implementation would be wise. If they don't care, it'll continue to stumble along with little acceptance until the day your dream comes true and system throughput and responsiveness no longer matter because of the relative speed of our platforms.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Freenet is NOT immune to the /. effect currently. Every time /. runs a Freenet related story, loads of new users seem to get on the Freenet and it just collapses, meaning response times go way up and many freesites become unreachable. I'm sure NGRouting will take care of this, but it's not honest to say it will help Freenet "remain immune" to the /. effect, because it's not immune.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
Uh, your really off your mark here. The Freenet web interface thingy comes with it's own mini webserver and the functionality to turn any non-transient node into a freenet distribution center. From the Freenet web interface, there's a link called Spread Freenet. (Link only works if you have Freenet installed and running.)
Even if the main Freenet site got taken down, things would still be just peachy...
While we're at it, what's this about the Bittorent mainpage going down? I know that a few popular tracker sites went down, but I've never heard of the main BitTorrent site going down. Click the link; it's up right now.
Moderators: How the hell did the parent get modded +2 Insightful?
If you want to say "fucking" then say it. Don't be a "bloody" pussy, get off your british rags.
From the article: One of the expected side effects of this approach was that nodes would tend to specialize in the retrieval of some keys to the exclusion of others.
I wonder which lucky chap will run the node that specializes in kiddie porn?
You are right - NG routing lays out a clear path for future refinements to the algorithm, and a clear way that those refinements can be evaluated.
Anyone interested in statistics should really start paying attention to Freenet right now - interesting things are happening.
No, you are referring to the startup time of the VM. Once started, the memory pages will have settled and the response gets better and better. The same thing happens when you use the menu's the first time. Once the classes have loaded, the program has fine responsiveness. Actually, you can preload classes with Java, but not too many developers use that particular feature (it will add to the startup time anyway).
IMHO, the Java VM should be loaded at startup, and a single VM should be used to launch multiple applications. When used like that (together with an efficent GUI startup process) much of the gripe against Java applications should be gone. Obviously the firewalling between programs should be maintained. Alas, this is not currently so.
To come back to freenet: it doesn't incorporate a GUI in normal use (using the web interface is not the same as launching a Swing application) and for networking speed: the speed of the connection will be the bottle neck, not the Java application.
It must be said that the current implementation will scare away programmers that are looking towards efficency. For most programs you should n't though. Look at the architecture before trying to get something more efficient by changing languages.
ps. for an ample showcase of efficiency, try Eclipse from IBM. Check the features first before posting though.
FreeNet will have problems for the forseeable future because the average joe can't easily install it and make it work.
Who will take FreeNet to the masses?
In other words, who will make a simple, usable client/server program that works on FreeNet? (Think Napster/KaZaA/Gnucleus)
Will it be KaZaA? BearShare? Will it be some Open Source project?
How long until somebody with the right skill set takes this to the "next level" so that it's actually usable to people other than geeks?
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
A "rights" holder knows the freenet key of certain material. Can the holder not hust write a script hop onto Freenet, request that key (and only that key), and fire off C&Ds to all the ISPs whose allocations include the addresses that respond? Seems simple enough--even with blinding of requests, the intellectual "property" holder can still point to the nodes that respond as having distributed the material--just as the exit server from Mixmaster (or freedom.net, before it became a casualty of 9/11 hysteria), etc. is vulnerable to legal attacks.
This might be able to be foiled with some kind of chaffing in which nodes respond even if they don't have a piece of the data in question, but that would introduce more inefficiency.
In particular, those who are "willfully blind" to infringement losing safe harbor provisions, I don't see how Freenet will survive as a means of propagating "questionable" material. And since that's it's raison d'être, then it probably won't survive at all in the U.S.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
When I first tried Freenet a year or so ago it defaulted to be a transient node.
I noticed the lastest versions default to permanent node and the Windows version also puts itself in your startup folder.
I don't think a few hundred or thousand transient nodes coming onto and off of Freenet would hurt it, but I think permanent nodes frequently hopping on and off will slow it down. I wonder why they changed the default to permanent?
If I understand correctly, a transient node doesn't store data, respond to data requests from other nodes or get put in the routing table, while a permanent node does. A full-time permanent node will make your local browsing faster as well has help out Freenet, but a sporadically on permanent node would cause delays I suspect.
The reason that Freenet is supposedly free from the Slashdot effect is because a greater demand for a freesite naturally causes it to be available from more nodes. The supply scales to demand.
Of course, it might.
More likely, Congress will order the FBI to use Carnivore (or whatever it is called now) to track people downloading a particular file on Freenet, and to try and find out who they are. I don't remember how Freenet works, or how Carnivore works, but I'm sure with total control of the router infrastructure you could figure out who was downloading what, eventually..... although, every control message for freenet is encrypted, huh? Well, anyway they'd try.
Then, the RIAA will demand that congress give them the power to open up carnivore boxes and track down "pirates" without judicial oversight.
Our legislators have such a poor idea of how freenet works (worse even than mine,) that I don't think they *can* write a law against it. A law against software that enables two remote computers to connect to each other without both of them knowing who the other is?
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
freenet is a *protocol*, not a client (though they do ship the http proxy client with the main distro). just like the http protocol doesnt have any search functionality built into it, neither does freenet. you can, and people do in fact use regular old web spiders to create searchable indexes of freenet.
tasty electronic music vittles
Freenet Still Does Not Use Inter-Node Encryption!!!
you.
Don't be a "bloody" pussy, get off your british rags.
We might prefer 'bloody' to 'fucking', but we're happy to call a cunt a cunt.
Cunt.
s/it's/its/g in the above.
Female Prison Rape in NY
http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225227/
Assheads.
"The meek shall inherit the earth, the rest of us shall go to the stars." Isaac Asimov
I see contradictory claims. Help me out here...
From the current announcement: It could even make Freenet faster than the World Wide Web in many circumstances.
From the Freenet FAQ: While it is unlikely that freenet sites will ever load faster than regular websites, it does adapt to sudden surges of visitors (which will often occur when relatively unknown sites get linked to from a big site) better, and high download speeds for big files are feasible too. Just don't expect very low latency.
I'm about to try my first Freenet install anyways because I'm curious about some of its other alleged benefits, but would anyone in the know care to comment on just how slow (in latency and/or throughput terms) the Freenet experience is really destined to be?
How many times do people need to say it? Freenet is no more trying to be Kazaa or Morpheus than a knife is trying to be a fork.
And why kill them? Because most of the software gets stuck for some reason once in a while. Maybe not always because of the software itself, but because they're waiting for some network timeout or whatever.
Freenet has had inter-node encryption for years - why are you FUDding?
Why doesn't someone put there money where their mouth is and port it over to another language if they dont like Java so much?
I do believe someone is porting over Freenet from Java to another C language, and the project is called Entropy:
http://entropy.stop1984.com/en/intro.html
I am sure that any help will be welcomed in the freenet project, and even if not its open source so go ahead and port it over to your favourite language.
...the ants did.
> So let's just wait and see if all these new :-)
> non-permanent permanent nodes will hurt the
> network or help it.
Basically these NPP nodes would store the data from permanent nodes. They hold information, so there's some plausible deniability and it that data is valid (and helps the freenet network) because that data is likely valid (because it's permanent).
Ideally, this permanence can be calculated dynamically. Nodes that stay on longer get their permanence increased and this increases the chances that their data is replicated. Nodes that come in and go away quickly don't get their data replicated.
I've been reading about Freenet, and I'm trying to imagine how a potent search engine could be implemented on top of Freenet. Ideally it'd be great to use meta tags and such to index pages, but then how do you find the files if you do not know their keys in the first place?
Yes, I have heard about Frost. As far as I understand, it's some sort of anonymous newsgroup. I guess a search engine could harvest the keys posted on Frost, and index them after retrieving and analysing the content and possibly the meta tags. But then the question becomes: how do you host such a search engine anonymously? Aren't you liable/vulnerable if your search engine is known to help you retrieve questionable content? Can't Frost be attacked ultimately for that same reason? Or is it distributed/anonymous? Am I missing something? Should I RTFA?
"In our tactical decisions, we are operating contrary to our strategic interest."
Dude... have you tried to ping www.riaa.org in the last several months? Last I looked (yesterday) they were up but incredibly slow; more often than that they have been down completely nearly the whole year. Ironically, the RIAA needs something like freenet just to keep its site from being DOS-ed to ashes.
Ian Clarke was founder of Uprizer and many other companies. Uprizer if I remember right pays for the bandwidth.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Its a good model, however I think GNUnets economic model is more advanced.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I installed freenet for the first time and it took 10 minutes to perform the first search, kazaa takes about 3 seconds.
They can both become a proxy for someone else as well as hide behind someone else in a ring.
You connect to me, I connect to joe.
Joe wants to talk to you, he connects to me, and I connect to you.
This could be random, every time they log on new proxy rings.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I find this project fascinating in that it would seem to be a solution on many levels, not just an app that runs over the internet. The way information is stored in redundant fashion, that growth ofd the network makes it more efficient AND more robust, that certain pathways become more specialized over time - it all strikes me as functioning very much like some grand brain. Of course it's "not there yet" but, unlike those who love to troll about how doggedly slow and unusable it is, I see research on this project as being exceedingly valuable also to realizing robust (and secure, as in privacy ensured) wireless mesh networks.
Just to clear up, Entropy is not a port of freenet. It shares many of its ideas and even uses the Freenet Client Protocol (The protocol applications use to talk to a node), but it does not use the Freenet Network Protocol (The protocol nodes use to talk to each other), and is hence incompatible with the original Freenet network.
Freenet is a fast moving target - anyone moving to implement a sister to FRED is going to be spending a lot of time playing catch-up.
I did not know what was called the "/. effect". That may seem stupid but I am not used to that /. vocabulary. I searched on google and found a page which gave a short explanation and the link I copied, so as it was one of the first posts which mentionned the "/. effect" I posted the link and the explanation so people who would read the previous post would have an explanation of the "/. effect" attached with one the first posts mentionning it.
Caring about simple things like this can be associated to karma whoring ... that's kinda interesting.
So next time, I should say something which promotes Linux and OSx while being sarcastic against Microsoft and RIAA. Then I should make sure to post it not in reply to a comment, but as a reply to the story itself and in the first posts. Finally I would check that the post length would be something about 60-100 lines and full of complicated words. Now that would be karma whoring. Not that I care about numbers in front of a chunk of text but more about how you perceived my post.
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
Freenet may be the best that we have so far, and I have nothing against its success in fighting off the fascistic corporate state, but he's right, at least as far as the U.S. is concerned.
ISPs could be required to install routers which block anything which does not follow a prescribed protocol -- a whitelist, as it were.
Spyware software which allows access to limited protocols of the internet (e.g. HTTP, FTP) would be required, and would use government-approved revokable encryption keys which expire too often for there to be any practicality in cracking them, since the encryption would be done in the middle, at the ISP level, and not at the P2P ends.
People with economic power -- I'm sorry guys, that's not us -- would accept the government's explanation that this is needed to fight off cyber-terrorism. So there would not be enough dollar protests to fight such a draconian system even if we tried. The public has already been conditioned for martial law.
The government was hoping that the July 6 cyber-attacks occurred, so that it could justify moving closer to this reality. Thankfully they did not happen.
Violators could be fined or sued, and there would be no due process rights because they are matters for the civil, not criminal, courts. The Constitution is obsolete.
People could try to create other ways to access the internet outside of the U.S., such as freenet servers outside of the U.S., but in the U.S. it would be called an act of terrorism, ala Patriot Act II, which if caught could lead to arrest and indefinite detention without trial under Ashcroft's regime.
I realize Freenet is the best we have so far, and it will delay things, but if the fascists in the government, RIAA and MPAA have their way, it won't be free. Do not become complacent because of Freenet, and assume that everything is safe.
We are living in a police state. It's time to start coming up with alternative defenses in the event of internet martial law, such as pirate radio, Fidonet and BBSes, etc.
Support Freenet, but remember it is not a panacea.
I'm going to wait for NGrouting.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
$10 a month to freenet and get all the music and movies you want,
Or pay the RIAA $100,000 dollars per song.
I think we dont have a choice but to make the logical business decision just like the RIAA made the logical business decision to sue 60 million people.
Here you go, Subscribe now FreenetSubscription
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1191474 ,00.asp
If you download porn, the spyware programmed into Freenet will foward your IP to the RIAA, FBI, NSA, and then post it to a few hacking/warez newsgroups and forums.
Freenet is NOT a pornster program.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
troll.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
This supposed program Freenet doesn't let you do anything really. It takes for-fricken-ever just to download all the images from the front page (I am using an un-firewalled Mozilla Firebird latest nightly to test it) and then clicking any of the pages like Yoohoo (or whatever the hell it's called) doesn't result in it going anywhere.
Vaporware in physical form, I say.
1. Freenet does work, its slow, but it works, I run it on dialup, all you people with bband stop moaning.
2. Whatever connection you use give it time to integrate into the network.
3.Stuff you may not agree with can and probably will be stored on your node.
4. You cant be done for 3. Unless certain western goverments get really upset with freenet users.
5.Download it. Run it. Leave it as long as you can. Repeat. Eventually it will work ok.
6.Remember its worth it. Support this project you might need it.
Get the latest version of freenet. If you think you got the latest version there is alsways a newer one.
And in the freenet protocol is buildin that it refuses to tlak to too old version of freenet.
I believe freenet is still mainly a toy for the developers.
anon also.
Let's replace the Internet (and throw 20 years of work away in the process) so everyone can download music and movies (which they usually claim they don't like anyway) for free (destroying 30% of the economy in the process).
Sounds great.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
would this mean anyone and everyone running a freenet node is performing something illegally? Since we can only forward/distribute the data and not even tell what data is on our machines save crunching the encryption with some supercomputers we all have lying around (sarcasm), the only alternative to not be "willfully blind" would be simply not to run a Freenet node.
And that kind of restriction would be the last straw for me and this forsaken country.
How many sites does freenet support, before it starts to collide with other sites?
1. Its theorethic. The original freenet concept contained simulation to show that it should work. I am missing this here.
/no hops it took because it leads to security problems.
2. It does not fit really well in the freenet sources. In the current freenet implementation the network layer and routing layer are split. Unless you develop it yourself this will not be implemented in freenet (soon).
DNF: estimate if they are legimate by estimating their time. This does not work on a saturated network. And freenet is always (by design i think ) full.
There are some asumptions here that do not work. Also there will be things in freenet that will try to hide the location
Inherited Knowledge:
Make nodes learn faste by assuming some kind (vague!) of trust between nodes. read: create trust by an estabished node and new (unreliable?) node. This is against the freenet paradigma and creates all kinds of security problems. This kind of thing should not be implemented in freenet where the 1st priority is security.
The only positive thing this article is suggesting is to time the data and so optimize the flow of messsages according to the internet structure. In freenet this is an implementation problem.
There were more of these kind of suggestions on the freenet tech mailing list. I unsubscribed it (too much spam, too much interesting ideas from people who had no clue)
If you write such articles please investigate other p2p solution as well! (gnet/gnunet india network and many others.)
OCaml has all the above advantages, but with a MUCH smaller memory footprint and C-like speed.
Rich.
libguestfs - tools for accessing and modifying virtual machine disk images
I've said this before!
The only problem is that there's no one-click tool to mirror a website into Freenet, yet. Freenet's gateway has an anonymity filter which prohibits out-of-freenet links, and it also disallows a lot of things. If someone wanted to write a simple tool to clean up a site and hack the links to work in Freenet, it would make this a lot easier.
By the way, using the http://127.0.0.1:8888/KEY@whatever style links is discouraged, because not everyone's freenet node is localhost, and not everyone runs it on port 8888! The preferred format is freenet:KEY@whatever which can then be handled appropriately by your browser.
It actually means "by your lady". By your lady... byourlady... bylady... blady... bloody. The British have a lot of speech impediments. Now, whatever the fuck "by your lady" means I don't have a clue. Apparently it's religious. It does fill the same hole as "fucking" though, since you can't say "wanking hell". That's just stupid.
You're part of the problem! The reason Freenet sucks for a little while after each release is that there's a huge influx of empty datastores joining the network. The network bounces back pretty quickly, as data gets passed around and as routing tables hone themselves, the network gets a lot better.
Then a day or two later, you and 90% of the other slashdotters drop off, and leave holes in everyone's routing tables. All the contribution that your nodes were just starting to make, gets undone. All the copies of content that got replicated into your datastores vanish. All the routing optimizations that were just sorting themselves out get broken again.
Tourists hurt the network. If you're judging Freenet based on it's performance the day after a slashdotting, you're not getting a full or fair picture. Come back and stay a while! Let your node run for a week and I think you'll be impressed.
When they say Freenet is slashdot-resistant, they refer to content within the network. Any piece of data, be it a single file or a whole freesite, will simply propagate more as more people request it. The network itself definitely labors a bit as empty datastores dillute it. The best way to improve Freenet's performance is to encourage those tourists to stick around, so they and the network will benefit the most.
This could help you...
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~akonstan/javaps/
Another bloody site that uses those damn PNG in links - I wish they would stop doing that and do GIF instead *grrrrrr*
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I don't like Freenet. I think it is an awesome idea but I don't like it (like H bombs). I think that in extreme cases the Government should be able to trace what people are doing.
However with the MPAA/RIAA behaving the way they are, and government tracking becoming more commonplace, I understand why people use it (especially in China). By treating every file trader like an international terrorist they are forcing people to use less and less traceable means of trading files. This also give paedophiles, drug dealers and even terrorists a means to communicate. If they backed off a bit and let people use the net in peace then you would have more reason to suspect people who used clandestine methods to communicate where up to something really bad.
Lets see if we can use them all...
Freenet is now being 'fixed' like a leaky faucet is fixed.
The RIAA wants the digitial audio/video market 'fixed' like a crooked horse race is fixed.
With the new Freenet the RIAA is about to be 'fixed' like your dog at the vet's is fixed.
I think that about covers it.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
Freenet is still a prototype. Java allows rapid prototyping. A lower level implementation doesn't make sense nuntil the protocol become more stable.
But the drawback to using OCaml is that writing code in OCaml fucking sucks. :)
Ada95 is a better choice, since we're looking for a language to replace Java for writing Freenet.
One aspect of Freenet is that the content reflects what the community puts out there. If you want to see stuff other than porn, put in up on the network. In fact, it will help to put even more stuff as long as it is of value to other people.
"If you make it, they will come" is all to important with Freenet.
Another point to make: If you view the porn and try to download it, you are also spreading this content to other nodes. If you don't want it on the network, don't view it or use it. Indeed, Freenet is very democratic in this sense, and you "vote" on each key each time you use it. These votes are actually used to determine if data is kept or discarded once the data store if filled, and old seldom used data is dumped routinely.
So while it's nice that they're working on making it faster and more usable (although frankly the current release seemed no faster during the 24 hours that it remained up -- it did seem to use a lot more bandwidth than in the past, though), I'm not sure that all that work is really worth much until the program is more stable.
A suggestion for the FreeNet development team would be to have every transmission
include the text "This transmission is copyright Freenet and interception or decryption
are prohibited under the DMCA."
I think this could also apply to Kazaa or any other P2P network. IANAL.
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
The property you are talking about - anonymity combined with strong digital signature authentication - is psuedonymity (the facility to strongly authenticate as one or more anonymous psuedonyms).
:)
:)
It's important to prevent fakesharing, as people can build trust in a psuedonym, even if their identity is not discovered, people can judge the releases on their merit alone. (And of course, releases that no-one wants eventually disappear from Freenet.)
One notable real-world example is DAMN, who always sign their releases using DSA signatures embedded in the NFOs. They had problems with people tampering with their releases - all too easy, so they embedded digital signatures to stop this. But just because you can identify that the signature is DAMN's, and a lot of people attest that the public key is indeed theirs, doesn't mean you can easily identify who they are.
Another notable example is Beale Screamer's release. We don't know who Beale Screamer is, but if he/she ever releases anything else, we'll know it came from capable hands.
This property is a requirement for participation in our current research project - uploads must be psuedonymous, downloads must be anonymous. Freenet does satisfy both these goals acceptably already, though it's dog slow - the NGR algorithm suggested is similar (but possibly superior - it's hard to tell until you actually try it) to ones our project have developed.
Of course today's current argument is if a small-worlds network like a secure, extremely efficent Direct Connect (think what WASTE was trying to do here, only WASTE failed miserably and is both very insecure and highly inefficient) wouldn't be a better idea in some situations. Everyone's arguing, again.
By the way... 20 gig? 200, more like. Ripped with Exact Audio Copy 0.9b4 (Secure Mode, accurate stream, NO C2, disable cache), including log files, correctly tagged (including Various Artists albums, with id3v1.1 and id3v2.3.0 for mp3s, and normal vorbiscomments for Vorbis and FLAC), named to a standard, encoded with Dibrom's LAME 3.92/3.90.2/3.90.3 (recommended) --alt-preset standard, extreme or insane (or alternatively Ogg Vorbis 1.0 -q6 or greater, or alternatively FLAC 1.1.0 or later, --best) and released one album to a directory including playlist and the EAC log file... optionally including 300dpi covers too (bonus points for using correct read offset correction - include it in the vorbiscomment tags please, doesn't really matter for mp3 - and test©).
That's the kind of thing you want to protect with psuedonymity.
It'd rule if we could open the network up to everyone and not have to worry about leeching anymore, and keep the quality standard too. It'd be a shame if we lost the community but that's what IIP is for, I guess...
Meanwhile, because no-one needs to know who I actually am, or link this to anything else I've done, and can judge this post entirely on its own merit, anonymity is good enough for me today.
CHILD PR0N. My experience with Freenet is that it's a dumping ground for purveyors of kiddie pr0n and others.
The idea is good, it peaked my server to 99% for 3 days in a row. Fix it and add some filters, I'll put it back up.
There is a GPL project to bring p2p searching to freenet, although I do not know if there has been much activity. Try this link:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/frazaa/
Hopefully someone will get it running soon.
Has anyone come up with a lazy dialect of Java? That might just do it. Oooh, or call-by-name? Of course the ultimate would probably be to rewrite the FreeNet client as a Turing Machine on a UTM interpreter... Like I said, really impressive.
Will the designers of Freenet be available on call, to be expert witnesses when the first Freenet child porn case happens in the US?
The US is overzealous when prosecuting both computer cases and child porn cases. When the two overlap, it's a recipe for disaster. Frequently, everything remotely computer-related that you own will be confiscated, all the way down to kitchen appliances, never to be returned. This happens even if you are later found not guilty!
And, again even if you are found not guilty, your name will still appear on public records searches, as having been involved with the case. This will all but blacklist you from any job that does a background check (an increasing number of jobs these days).
How do I know? This happened to an old acquaintance of mine. He used to have a promising white-collar job. Now the last I have heard of him, he lives on a crowded houseboat with several other people, and works as a clerk in a hardware store, to make ends meet. Even though he was acquitted in his court case, he'll never work a good-paying job again.
So, when the cops see connections coming from your IP address, kiss your ass goodbye. The people frequently selected for jury service in the US barely know how to turn a computer on, let alone how it works. This is done intentionally, so that prosecutors in computer cases can play up the "evil scary hacker" stereotype and go for the maximum sentence. (see Mitnick)
No way would a jury know that Freenet is a shared system, where people voluntarily donate unused storage space in their computer, in exchange for being able to access the same on other people's computers. Never mind that the data is encrypted, and not even the name of the files are known, so you have no way of knowing what other people have used Freenet to store on your computer. All they will see is connections coming from your IP address to the IP address of the one accused of child porn....
So, will the designers of Freenet be available as expert witnesses? Frequently in legal cases in the US, an expert witness is needed to state the obvious, which has already been said by the defendant. Somehow, speaking the truth does not matter in a court case, unless it is being said by a person with an impressive background. It is a shame, but it's how the system works.
Needless to say, I won't be running Freenet....
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
Who modded this troll Insightful? Why on Earth would you want to include a command-line script for a GUI operating system that 99.44% of users won't use? While I guess it wouldn't hurt anything to include one, the idea that providing a user-friendly interface that follows the convetions of the target OS is insulting the user's intelligence is just sad.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Every time someone points out an inherent flaw in Java, it's always assumed that it can be overcome with faster CPU's or faster/more clever compilers. That is just plain wrong. Java forces people to program in a way that is flawed, and absolutely fails to accept the fact that the domain of thinking and problem solving should be left to people and the domain of dataprocessing and computing should be left to computers. I wish I could say that I was just an obsolete C programmer who was unwilling to change, but that is simply not so. Java tries to force you to program a certain way even if that way is not an optimum one to solve a given problem. IMHO.
It certainly sucks a whole less than Java or Ada. In fact, I enjoy OCaml :-)
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Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
There was a link earlier in this thread to an interview with Bruce Eckel, author of Thinking with C++ and Thinking with Java, in which he noted that among many other problems with Java, the key one was client-side difficulties. In practice, despite the hype of universality, Java has become "write-once and painfully, run in just a few places, also painfully", and that must be affecting Freenet takeup. I jest a bit, but alas there is some truth there.
While that can be disputed, what cannot be disputed is that on 7 different machines I have here running 4 different operating systems, Java has not worked at all except on two of them, and then crashed on both of those. Every other language in use here (many many dozens, even highly obscure ones) has never had this problem. The actual problems have varied widely in nature, so it's not just one thing.
While that's not of any statistical significance, I **would like** to run Freenet, but I can't, for the reasons given. Do Clarke et al realize that their user base could be substantially larger if there were an up-to-date client written in *any* language other than Java? (You can dismiss my experiences, but surely not Bruce Eckel's, as a previous Java evangelist.)
And don't tell me I just have to get the latest J2RE. That's a hiding to nowhere. Java runtimes have been out for years, if we're still at the stage that apps don't work because one doesn't have the latest RE then the language is dead.
I can't stand trying to program in OCaml. Just looking at the code makes my head ache.
Makes you wonder who is really fighting for the future of privacy, freedom, and the Internet as a whole.