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Japan's War On E-Waste
Stonent1 writes "With the increasing number of high tech devices in Japan filling landfills, Japan has taken a proactive approach to E-waste. BBC News has an interesting article on Matsushita's electronics recycling plant. For example, TV and monitor tubes are opened with a special tool and separated into leaded and unleaded glass, melted and reused in new displays! The plastic housing is also melted down and reused. Sounds like a good idea for the U.S., too."
There should be a deposit on all computer components to handle the recyling. A lot of the stuff gets shipped overseas to become other peoples problems.
I think it's rather unlikely for this to happen in the US anytime soon. The time it takes to disassemble electronics properly to separate them out into the varying material types would make the process very expensive, and seeing as how companies are already cutting corners in every way they can, I find it hard to believe they would bother pouring money into device disposal.
KappaStone
Christmas Shopping Via Dumpster Diving.
When you live on an island, you think about waste more. Japan has been running up against the limits of it's geography for centuries (arable land, timber, etc.) so they are in a better position to tackle these kinds of problems.
Although when you shop at a 7-11 in Tokyo, and they double bag your overly packaged Pocky, you might not think so.
I'm much funnier now that I'm a subscriber.
Why dont we just shoot this stuff into space? There are 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Stars Out There, you can't tell me there is no room for this stuff.
Please recycle your electrons responsibly. It's a great shame that our e-landfil sites are filling up with so many bits and bytes that could otherwise be reused.
If we don't take care to conserve our resources now, in 20 years time there might not be enough free data to allow any new films, music or even slashdot posts, thus crippling society as we know it.
Beep beep.
Along with recycling the waste we're currently creating, I think we should go into a proactive recycling of old waste. Along with reusing the glass and plastic, we should look at using techologies such as >TDP </a> (Thermal Depolymerization Process) to better break down the waste.<p>It frustrates me as an American to see what a wasteful society we are. <i>Everything</i> is desposible. I'd be okay with that if everything was being recycled as well. If there was some synthetic ecosystem of waste and reuse, I wouldn't have to feel the massive guilt I do everytime I purchase something that's whole purpose is to be used one and then discarded.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
I wonder just how many E.T. cartridges are in that "Waste."
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
Sounds like a good idea for the U.S., too.
:-) Just kidding.
I don't think that the U.S. has any shortage of landfill space. A Florida company that owns a landfill in Michigan sells the space to Toronto, for crying out loud! Of course, people in Michigan blame the Canadians for that... but whatever.
In Japan, I imagine that landfill space is at a premium, and recycling this junk makes sense, but I just don't see it being economically feasible in North America.
When I was in Oklahoma City in 2001 they didn't even have recycling, and I think they had a push going to generate more waste because they were piling it in this landfill near town and it was the highest point for hundreds of miles. It's probably been renamed to Mount Oklahoma by now.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Perhaps it is a good idea for the US from an environmental point of view, but I don't think it will be done. Why not? Because it costs money. Land is money, how much it is depends on how much there is available. In the US there is more than enough land, so it is not worth much. In Japan on the other hand, land is very scarse and thus worth a lot. If the japanese can make sure they need less waste dumps this way, then they will do it. The US doesn't care about waste dumps. They'll just build their houses/industries/... somewhere else.
This requires equipment to be shipped back to the manufacturers, however. If given the choice between throwing away my old parts or digging up documents to find out where to ship my stuff to, my parts will be in the trash without a second thought.
KappaStone
Dell is using prison labor to handle recycling in an unsafe manor.
Why the hell are prisoners being housed in a manor? They belong in jail!
There's a company that I just recently found out about called Resource Concepts in Texas. Their whole business is refurbishing, remarketing, and recycling electronics. Their website has all the details. Looks like they even deal with individuals, not just big corporations.
-Ansel.
G=C800:5
I remember IBM offering something like this for IBM or non-IBM machines, and I found a link:
IBM PC Recycling Service for $29.99
Here's the link in their store:
IBM PC Recycle / Recycling Service
From an old press release, it looks like they are sending the machines to Envirocycle, an electronic recycler--maybe it is possible to send stuff to them directly, but I didn't see anything like that on their site.
If it was profitable we already would be.
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
We won't recycle unless
1. Its very profitable
2. We are having such a land issue that it mandates recycling.
3. Its legislated
This should be clear by some of the eastern states railroading their garbage out west.
Don't get me wrong I love the idea of recycling and should be doing more of it myself but just don't think I will see a big push for it till one of those things happens
***I GOT NUTHIN***
The link is here
A snippet:
The Georgia Institute of Technology in partnership with Dell Computer Corporation of Round Rock, Texas is pleased to announce a one-day computer equipment-recycling event in Atlanta. The event will be held at the Alexander Memorial Coliseum parking lot on the Georgia Tech campus on Saturday, July 12, 2003 from 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM. The Coliseum is located on 10th Street off the I-75/85 Connector in downtown Atlanta. Participants are asked to enter the Coliseum via Fowler and 8th Street. The general public is encouraged to bring any brand of old computer-related equipment--computers, computer monitors, keyboards, mice, printers or other peripherals to the site for collection and recycling by Dell.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Is food waste f-waste? Email is fine, ebusiness was tolerable. Give it up. It's old.
It is a little different burying paper/food waste vs. electronics. The paper/food will break down fairly harmlessly, but electronics have all kinds of nasties (arsenic, lead, a bunch of stuff I can't spell) that can easily leach into the water supply.
Besides, it's expensive getting metals out of the earth (as in mining them). Doesn't it make more sense to save money and recycle them?
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
"Recycling is only one part of a product's lifecycle"
this is the way it should be seen. too often american manufacturers see the end of the lifecycle as the minute it leaves the factory doors. the only thought given to what happens when the consumer is finished is in terms of when they will buy the replacement.
!(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
Why would we do this. We've got MONTANA to fill up.
Check out this "related" article!
Environmental Group Fears Growing Problem of Digital Waste
"I'm not, like, that smart. I, like, forget stuff all the time." -- Paris Hilton
Yeah! Screw the environment! What did it ever do for us, huh?
Ummm...
Wow, this is a brilliant post. "We don't need to recycle 'cuz we still have plenty of room to put our massive amounts of garbage!". Seriously, that has to be the most unbelievably ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I don't *care* if there's lots of room to throw more garbage... it shouldn't go there in the first place. Especially things like circuit boards, etc, which contain many toxic chemicals (eg, lead, mercury, etc). Do *you* want this stuff seeping into your water table in 50 or a 100 years when the landfill lining breaks down (something which has happened at other sites already)?
"With the increasing number of high tech devices in Japan filling landfills, Japan has taken a proactive approach..."
huh? Clearly they are taking a reactive approach.
I hate the way people use buzzwords like proactive without stopping to think what they actually mean.
GE Medical systems has a salvage operation, where they take field returns of computers, circuit boards, monitors, x-ray tubes, and traded-in equipment. They test items that have a demand, and resell them if possible, and then the rest goes into the process.
There is a group of people who snip the gold contact fingers off of circuit boards - the gold contacts go to one process, the boards go off to China for reuse of the components (so, that cheap Chinese toy you buy, might have 15 year old resisters that used to be in an Xray machine!). The CRTs are, as the article mentioned, separated for leaded vs. unleaded glass; chassis are stripped, steel & aluminum go off into their own recycling places.
Some of the more intersting stuff is the tungsten rotors from the Xray tubes - some seriously heavy stuff, and the mu-metal from inside of some monitors and image intensifiers. Some of the scrap they come up with is painfully expensive stuff, some of it is toxic, and all of it would end up in a dump somewhere if they weren't doing it.
Of course, GE being GE, they're not doing this just because it's a good thing to do, but I understand that they actually turn a profit at all of this. I'm guessing other GE businesses do it to, and I'd be surprised if there aren't dozens or hundreds of places in the US doing it already. If there aren't, maybe it'd be a good thing to look into.
This has been hammered down our throats since we were in grade school, but we often forget that Reduce and Reuse come first. Reduction isn't really an option these days, as everyone "needs" the fastest machine, and for most people scared of upgrades and custom-built systems, that means a brand new computer.
Instead of throwing them in landfills, spending a lot of money to recycle them, or leaving them to be smashed to bits by 10 year old Chinese girls trying to earn 15 cents for a teeny bit of copper, why can't we just set up an effective reuse program?
You can't tell me that there aren't millions of people all over the world who could make effective use of a 486 with a dot-matrix printer and open-source software, let alone the number of Pentium I & II's that are being abandoned left and right by the upper middle class in America.
It would cost less to ship them overseas than pick them apart, and actually HELP people.
Reduce, Reuse, THEN Recycle.
Actually, a lot of junkyard/recycler places in the US are starting to figure out they can make big bucks on recycling almost all of the parts from computers and other electronics. It used to be they would extract all of the metals and plastics, which would net them a few cents a unit. Now they can get a few bucks a unit by pulling chips and reselling them on the refurb market.
They just had a show about junkyards (I think it was Modern Marvels on the History Channel) which talked about this.
Recycling is actually big money in the US. Most people think we send vast quantities of junk to be dumped overseas, but in actuality a lot of that junk is scrap metal that is sent there to be recycled.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
A government mandate requring manufacturers to recycle 50% of the parts of new televions will encourage manufacturers to continue making older, better understood, CRT based TVs.
New TVs based on LCD technology use much less than 1/2 the raw materials, but those components probably aren't as frequently recycled.
Therefore, consumers don't get the technology that they prefer, and more waste is generated. Thanks, government!
The answer: Charge a fee based on how nasty the stuff is to dispose of properly. Those components that get recycled are free of fees. The higher the fee - the more stuff that gets recycled - or not built in the first place, as people switch to other products not so environmentally damaging.
The problem with the answer: What would be the fee on a gallon of gas or a TV? No one can really be sure.
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
The city of New New York has been garbage free for centuries, mostly because the city got rid of all its garbage in the 21st century by compacting it all into a big ball and firing it into space. The porn movie "The Great Garbage Crisis of NY" gives the historical details to this.
But later on when the giant garbage ball was discovered to be on retour course to hit Earth, something had to be done. After a failed attempt by the Planet Express crew to blow up the ball, Philip J Fry came up with the idea of constructing another ball of garbage, and firing it at the one in space in an effort to send it reeling off course. All of New New York did their part to make garbage, and Fry's plan was a success.
Thanks gotfuturama.com!
Here in California, we have a tax on many recyclable products (soda cans and bottles). The tax is called CRV and is usually something small, like $0.14. They refund the tax when you recycle the bottle or can. I think they should have a CRV for electronic components. That way, you might have more incentive to recycle them.
This message brought to you by Jack Schitt's Previously Shat Shit
Maybe once every item has an RFID tag* embedded in to it, this automatic sorting will be no problem.
* the one potentially valid use for them after they leave the store
No Disassemble! Johnny Five Alive!
Electronics need to be designed for recycling. I'm sure that when a chip manufacturer is designing a new chip, recycling isn't even a consideration in the design. There are several elements that are ever increasing in the American economy faster than elsewhere in the world: energy prices, property taxes, health care expenses, living expenses, and entertainment. We are headed for the "Artificial Intelligence" future where we have to be mindful of the total cost of manufacturing something and looking at the value we get from that product. Is "X" product really that useful for society? How will it affect the environment (land fill or otherwise) after its usefulness is gone? Are there other uses for the material in that product? Are those materials easily disassembled or dismantled into component parts? This type of thinking will eventually persist in the USA one day, but not anytime in the near future. Let's face it, human existence is starting to get expensive. Why the hell do you think all those manufacturing and white collar computer science and science (chemistry, biology, etc...) jobs are moving to overseas markets?
The discussion thusfar seems to have identified two major issues (and one minor one) that must be overcome before such a program could exist in the United States.
1. Land - We've got a lot of it over here, but the bottleneck to starting something like this is probably not so much a question of whether or not its easier to make landfills. The question is one of transport. How can any recycling operation afford to ship 22 pounds (10 kg) of monitor from an office in Lemmon, SD, once every 6 months, and still hope to turn a profit? Japan has the "advantage" of being compact. We don't.
2. Law - Landfills are cheap & easy. Recycling is less profitable. Will we be trying to implement this state by state? Does the federal government have any authority to mandate such a disposal regime under the interstate commerce power?
3. Will the RIAA object to anyone recycling a DRM enabled device under the DMCA?
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
You havent bought a printer cartridge recently have you lol
liqbase
I just don't see it being economically feasible in North America.
Thats what the government is for. When the raw, slimy greed starts to ooze out of capitalism and corrode the "American Way of Life(tm)", the government should step in and get people's and companies' acts cleaned up.
The government should say "Look, we know its going to cost you, and we know you're going to pass the cost onto the consumer, but you better start a recycling program, and stick to it." They've done the same to stop child labor, to enforce minimum wages, to increase air quality, and so on.
Of course, it doesn't work that way since our government sank into the slimepits, but thats another story. Its clear whose side the current government is on, what with the abolishing of overtime and (perceived?) failures in the punishment of enron and microsoft.
On the other hand, I know that several manufacturers have in fact begun recycling programs. Such as Dell, HP/Compaq, and even Gateway which was the hardest to turn up.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
First, there is a shortage of landfill space for certain communities. The communities selling landfill space are merely reducing the landfill space for future generations.
Second, some things should not be land-filled because they are toxic to humans. It is pretty much impossible to design a landfill that will be safe for a significant amount of time. Most rational communities have recycling programs set up so these waste do not end up in the landfill. These are often funded out of the public purse.
The reason recycling efforts, and clean manufacturing efforts, tend not to work in the US is because commercial interests are allowed to externalize disposal costs to the government and future generations, and therefore not make the cost of clean up part of their business plan. Therefore, dirty operations are often artificially more profitable than clean operations.
The problem, as we seem, comes later when the mess has to be cleaned up and a new generation is asked to pay. We see this now with the superfund cleanup status of a number of defunct commercial entities.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
The paper/food will break down fairly harmlessly
Food, yes, paper not really. Newspapers in landfills from the WWII era can still be read. Also, food is not really the problem, its all the packaging. Especially, if your like me and get single serving foods all the time.
Doesn't it make more sense to save money and recycle them?
If it were cheaper, yes. How long do you think it would take to get 5 tons of, say, copper from a mine vs. getting it from used electronics? I'm no mining expert, but I would imagine that its much easier to separate the valuable metals from dirt, etc. than it would be to separate them from other metals, plastics, glass, etc.
Why not!?! That big ditch needs to be filled sometime, and what better purpose than our IT waste! ;P
They should've gone with the radioactive approach and have Godzilla take care of it all in one breath.
"You know Myra, some people might think you're cute. But me, I think you're one very large baked potato."
HP also has a recycling program which was promoted recently on ScreenSavers. According to the HP representative they had on the show, they do much of the same as what was described in the main article above.
It was specifically stated in the interview that that was an official company benefit! Get yer grubby Chuck Taylors outta that dumpster!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Where I live, we used to have recycle bins that we sit out next to the curb on trash day. I usually had a full bin of glass containers, pop cans, and plastic items every week. Then one day, the city stopped doing that. So now I just toss all that stuff in the trash, because I am surly not going to take a 15 minute drive to the recycle place once a week.
Let's face it. We're too lazy to go out of our way to recycle our trash, and rightfully so, a lot of us have better things to do. So make it easy to recycle and I'm all over that. Make it difficult, and nobody will recycle. Pretty simple.
T
Most plastic (would say "all" but I'm not 100% sure 'bout that) doesn't recycle all that well. Something breaks down in the process such that the resulting plastic isn't as good as that newly produced. So most plastic ends up being reused in ways such as insulating filler for pillows and jackets. I know plastic soda bottles are used for that purpose; can computer plastics be used in a similar manner?
Anyway, until this is resolved, plastic will not be recycled as much as we'd all like. I for one hope that someone finds a way to prevent the degradation.
- Leo
You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right.
"Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs."
Dell has trashed its prison labor plans because of some bad news surfacing about unsafe work environments. Apparently Dell was just handing them computers and saying "well, recycle them" without proper tools or training.
As far as reducing e-waste this has to be a top down process starting with design and manufacture of the product. You need to use components that require less resouces and waste to produce, packaging that separates easier, and service plans that promote recycling near the end-of-life. Many Japanese firms have created timelines for removing all lead from their computers and reaching carbon dioxide milestones for manufacturing.
HP does have a program that gives you a rebate if you send them an old computer but it's really a raw deal. You pay them $50 to recycle your computer then they give you a $50 gift certificate that's only good at their online store on specific non-sale, non-ink, non-toner, non-paper items and expires after 30 days. Not to mention you have to buy something that's $10 more than the certificate value. I was thinking of recycling a bunch of computers here but there's no way I'd PAY $300 to ship it off to them only to get forced into buying 6 digital cameras at $180 each.
We are a society of extremely wasteful people. Just look at the way products are packaged these days with all sorts of non-biodegradable plastics with infused chemicals. My parents just bought a set of the gardening gloves but they were packaged in a horizontal manner that consisted of dense plastics. They used to tie gloves in a bundle now they incase them in plastics for loss prevention.
I would have to say a lot of products these days are packaged in a way that's best to reduce theft. As far as technology goes I doubt much thought goes into designing a pc that can best be recycled unless it's already running windows.
I think compartmentalizing the hazardous material parts on any device in it's design would be of some service. That way if you chose not to sell your pc or whatever else you could just seperate the parts and drop them off at a technology device recycling center with a bin for each type of part. We need some of those as I have yet to see one...although they might have them somewhere.
So what I'm saying is in terms of pc's they don't have to design them to be biodegradable because that won't happen. Compartmentalize in an intelligent manner that is best suited for easily recycling the parts because there are a lot of lazy people out there who'd rather throw it away than deal with it.
Hopefully when the disposable dvd's come out they have recycling centers for those and they should be funded by the companies who developed the technology. Those who develop wasteful practices and methods in the days of trying to reduce the problem should be responsible for collecting and recycling their wasteful products.
In all actuality I just hope that consumers reject that idiotic disposable dvd shit but as I said before laziness could make it a massive success. I bet if they throw in a free Big Mac then that would almost guarantee success...
You aren't free to do anything, until you've lost everything.
...I like to think we are on headed in the right direction.. see here and here I have frequently visited Bo Brodie's company, Computer Recyclers Inc., an Ottawa company that deals in electronic junk. Brodie's firm takes in about half a million pounds of electronic junk a year. Not only will they take your old junk off your hands but they sell the stuff people get rid of that is still good. Win win if you ask me.
For example, TV and monitor tubes are opened with a special tool and separated into leaded and unleaded glass
I have a special tool for that too... it's called a sledge hammer! (!!!)
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
OK, now that's just a nifty expression.
at some point, it may be co-opted, mass marketed and then overused into extinction, but for right now, really cool.
ed
The enviromental cause, like all causes needs an enemy. If one is not available, one will be fabricated. To this ended, the extreme pro-enviroment camp, who are also the most vocal, continue to promote the notion of the evil polluting industrialist. This, despit the decline in the population of this type of industrialist and the decline of their impact on corporate policy. That has left the extreme enviromental activist in a tough spot. Their usual responce is to vehemetly attack any corporation attempting to do anything pro-enviroment with the desire to derail such activities. This tactic has been quite successfull. Today, most buisness realise this, so tend to keep their activities out of the news. The semi-manufacturer I worked for did just this, which is why most people do not know about it.
Unfortunately what they don't tell you is that about 80% of the collected e-waste is shipped to third world countries. See export harm at:. htm
http://www.svtc.org/cleancc/pubs/technotrash
Dell uses prison labor to do their recycling. Recycling is usually pulling some parts which have little value and sending the rest overseas and to landfills.
However, there are systems such as plasma torch processes at ~8000 degrees C that are non-polluting
(everything is closed cycle) which can recover all the raw chemicals. Japan has these plants for household waste. Unfortunately no venture capitalist in the U.S. will back one (~10M) since they only have good profit returns rather than 10X returns in 2 years. I know, I wrote a business plan for one and found out disinterested they are in plants with just 'good' profit returns. My own university 'venture office' laughed and said come back when I had a biotech or computer idea.
Besides, it's expensive getting metals out of the earth (as in mining them). Doesn't it make more sense to save money and recycle them?
Unfortunately in some cases it doesn't (at least not to the corporations.)
I'm just wondering how long it will take for it to be economical to recycle, and who knows, cost of raw material may eventually go so high we'll start mining landfills, not to clean up the land, but to reclaim disposed materials.
Hopefully if we reach this point we'll do come cleanup at the same time, but I don't expect any corporation to do this in the United States unless they think they can make money doing it (or are following laws that force them to do so.)
"There are people who do not love their fellow human being, and I _hate_ people like that!" - Tom Lehrer
In Switzerland, you pay an "Anticipated Recyling Tax" on all electric and electronic equipment at the time of purchase, about 5% of the price of the item. I don't believe that you get that money back; it probably goes to subsidize the cost of recycling.
Considering that all electronics will eventually be disposed of at some time, it's smarter to collect the fee up front. It reminds the consumer of the eventual environmental impact that the item will have by factoring it into the price. Collecting the fee at the time of the sale is also more logistically workable than trying to collect it when the item is being thrown away.
E-Waste recycling is only in very specific cases profitable. Plastics used with electronics usually use flame-retardants which makes it very costly to recycle. Chips are pulled for refurb, but remember that technology goes out of date really quickly. There are still big barrels of chips that get processed for the metals. But this is barely profitable, and only when the chip can be easily removed from other parts. The worst are CRT's, which average about 8lbs of lead a piece. There used to be a couple plants in the States that would pay to melt down the leaded glass, but I believe they went out of business. The vast majority of these monitors end up in China, where they're taken apart by villagers (including children) in extremely unsafe conditions. Check out Exporting Harm, by the Basel Action Network for more info on that. If recycling E-Waste were so profitable, then organizations like StRUT would not be on the rocks. I've visited their warehouse, and I'll tell you they run a tight ship. But they only use vendors who recycle materials responsibly, and that requires lots of money. Beware companies that will take your electronics for free, especially monitors. It's a sure sign they're sending stuff to China.