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Jonathan Zittrain On The Spiderweb of Copyright Law

Jonathan Zittrain, director of Harvard Law School's Berkman Center for Internet & Society, takes an unusual approach to critiquing copyright in this Legal Affairs article. He explains with an analogy to the bizarre patchwork of United States tax codes a reason that (in the words of one of Zittrain's colleagues) "all the cyberprofs hate copyright." It goes beyond simple indignation that current copyright laws often grant seemingly unfair monopoly powers, and into the tangled minutia of the laws themselves.

194 comments

  1. TIme to start over, folks by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "The notion of "contributory" copyright infringement--aiding and abetting copycats--was devised by judges. In conjunction with a statutory limit on creating "derivative" works of a copyrighted original, a theory of contributory infringement led a couple of courts to outlaw the production by third parties of cassette programs designed to be inserted into the belly of Teddy Ruxpin talking stuffed animals. The idea was that by pushing "Play" when a non-Teddy Ruxpin story tape was inside the creature, children would be creating a derivative, contraband "audiovisual work comprising animated plush toy bear with unique voice." Since toddlers are largely unsusceptible to cease-and-desist letters, it fell to the cassette makers to stop abetting the kids' illegal behavior. "

    Time to scrap the heap of copyright laws and start over (why not begin with what the Constitution says, as a suggestion?). When laws are being created to prevent toddlers from accidentally becoming felons, simply because they want to listen to their teddy bear read them a story, you know things have gotten out of hand.

    Look, here at /. we know all about the music (hello, RIAA!), movies (hello, MPAA!) and software (hello, UCITA!) examples. But here is an example that is just absurd. Fix the problem? Please, just gut the laws and start over.

    Wait a minute, what am I saying?! Any laws rewritten from scratch nowadays would be far more draconian. Maybe this time they would put in provisions to haul the 3-year-olds off to prison...

    1. Re:TIme to start over, folks by macdaddy357 · · Score: 3, Funny
      Oh yes! Teddy Ruxpin. That was a great toy. You could put Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols into your little brother's bear, and make Teddy sing Anarchy In the UK ... "I am an anti-christ, and I am an anarchist! Don't know what I want, but I know how to get it. I wanna destroy!"

      The little tyke would run screaming, "Mom! Mom! Teddy Ruxin's posessed!"

      --
      How ya like dat?
    2. Re:TIme to start over, folks by fermion · · Score: 1
      Constitution says, as a suggestion
      The reason to leave the constitution itself alone is that it has mellowed with time and all but the more radical persons accept it as a living document.

      For instance, the 'life, liberty, and pursuit to happiness' clause, as originally construed, has less to do with the keeping the king out of your house and your spouse in, and more do with the unfettered right of person to make as much profit as he can. As it stands, this now means that we all enjoy freedoms to live life the best we can. I would be dimes to dollars that if it were rewritten, we would see much stronger free market language, and the explicit expansion of those rights to corporations. Many would see this a good thing, many would not. It might depend if you believe the harm caused by downloading music is equivalent to the harm done to mugging a person on the street.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    3. Re:TIme to start over, folks by macdaddy357 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" comes from the Declaration of Independence, not the constitution. Despite what your average yahoo thinks, they are not the same document. Unlike the Constitution, which is the basis of our body of laws, the Declaration is not part of the body of laws, just a philosophical treatise. So there!

      --
      How ya like dat?
    4. Re:TIme to start over, folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Depends on who you listen to....

      Some have argued that the Declaration of Independence is really a preamble to the constitution.

      Also, the 5th amendment uses that phrase, although slightly changed -- it is "life, liberty, and property." This change kinda supports the previous poster's argument...

    5. Re:TIme to start over, folks by macdaddy357 · · Score: 1

      Property seems a lot more tangible than "the pursuit of happiness." People also seem to think that since we have the right to pursue happiness, we also have the right to catch it. Not necessarily so.

      --
      How ya like dat?
    6. Re:TIme to start over, folks by fermion · · Score: 1

      My bad. I was using the clause as it is interpreted in the constitution. I apologize for the misstatement

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  2. Gasp! by James+A.+A.+Joyce · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Laws that people don't understand are disliked by them? Surely some mistake!

    What does the government expect? Copyright laws have not been properly developed and then updated independently of the interests of those with influence (read: money) but have instead been accumulated over time by gradual accretion. Is it really any surprise then that they parallel other equally confusing works such as James Joyce's Ulysses, developed in an identical way. Copyright law started out as making some sense for the purpose of protecting an artist's rights while allowing public domain material to say public domain. Now they continuously tinker with it. Rich organisations constantly press for nonsensical and exact new stipulations, and because people try to exploit every loophole at every opportunity because of this they have to introduce even more arbitrary limits:


    "For example, bars and restaurants that measure no more than 3,750 square feet (not including the parking lot, as long as the parking lot is used exclusively for parking purposes) can contain no more than four TVs (of no more than 55 inches diagonally) for their patrons to watch, as long as there is only one TV per room."


    What bullshit! The thing that makes this even worse is that this isn't unusual: it's just a microcosm of law these days: a series of idiotic and numerically precise restrictions with no justification suffering from excessive detail with every little fucking detail having to be dictated due to the foolhardy allowance given for defence lawyers in exploiting any undefined part of each law.
    1. Re:Gasp! by wol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with your description of the idiotic and numercially precision regulations with no justification. And they are generally dictated by the plaintiff's bar. But even if the defendent meets those requirements, he/she/it will still be sued and some jury will award money to someone who was 98% responsible for the accident in the first place.

      --
      If you think deeply enough, you will have no single direction for your outrage.
    2. Re:Gasp! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what's funny, it looks suspiciously familiar to poorly writen code. I should know, I write poorly written code!

  3. We need a constitutional amendment here. by Thinkit3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Remember, copyright law is given in the constitution. So much like slavery (a similarly bad system), a constitutional amendment will have to occur to rid of us this scourge.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
    1. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by wol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Copyright law is in the US Constitution, but the ridiculous stuff is in the law (passed by Congress) and the regulations (enacted by 'mere' regulators.) You don't need a constitutional amendment, you need intelligent government. ... sorry ... worldwide shortage of that.

      --
      If you think deeply enough, you will have no single direction for your outrage.
    2. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by uncoveror · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries". This is all that is in the constitution. The first copyright law based on this had a term of 14 years, and was renewable once if the author or artist still was alive, and still had something commercially viable, but they had to apply for renewal, it was not automatic.

      That original law was perfectly adequate to encourage authors and artists to keep creating. It was always done for the benefit of society as a whole, not a few greedy profiteers. It did not create "intellectual property", a highly offensive misnomer, it created a temporary loan from the public domain, to which all ideas belong once expressed. There is similar language in the laws of many other countries. Copyright extentions have totally ruined the purpose of copyright to the point that just undoing them may not fix it any more. Perhaps copyright should simply be abolished. Yes, that would take an amendment, but overturning extentions would only take simple legislation. Too bad the greedy profiteers who oppose it own congress. We need to vote the bums out!

      --
      The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
    3. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by Alsee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember, copyright law is given in the constitution.

      Nope. All the constitution says is that congress MAY create copyright law, and only for a specific purpose, and only for limited duration. Repealing the entirety of copyright law would be perfectly constitutional. All it would take would be one act of congress.

      Copyright law can be a good thing within those narrow limits. But copyright law has grown like a cancer beyond its original intent. There is no inherent right to to get copyright protection. Intellectual property is an oxymoron. Copyright law was intended to be covered by civil law, not criminal law.

      Copyright was not intended to apply at all in any non-commercial context. The law does not exist to ensure that any particular business will make a profit. Copyright law was strictly intended to ensure that whatever profits were made went to the copyright holder. Someone profits off your work you can sue them and receive the profits. No profit, no claim. Traditional copyright law.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    4. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by dvdeug · · Score: 1

      Remember, copyright law is given in the constitution. So much like slavery (a similarly bad system), a constitutional amendment will have to occur to rid of us this scourge.

      Actually not. Copyright law is merely an option given to Congress, which Congress doesn't have to exercise. Congress could end copyright law with one bill.

    5. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically there is no copyright law in the U.S. Constitution. What there is though is an explicit mention of the ability for the government to pass laws about copyright. There isn't actually any type of copyright law in the Constitution.

    6. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by rpresser · · Score: 1

      Congress could end copyright law with one bill.

      And all that's required for that to happen is for Count Dracula to turn them all into vampire zombies controlled by his force of will.

    7. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by aussersterne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It did not create "intellectual property", a highly offensive misnomer, it created a temporary loan from the public domain, to which all ideas belong once expressed.

      Thank you. This is the best summary of the entire issue I've red thus far, and reflects my feelings exactly. I can't imagine a more offensive concept than "intellectual property" and can't imagine anyone who is not of the most base bourgeois sensibility feeling any differently.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    8. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by yanestra · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Copyright law was intended to be covered by civil law, not criminal law.

      Very important. If being treated as part of criminal law, copyright is a carte blanche for the industry to write their own criminal law statutes, without a need to ask any parliament.

      And that's really a big step away from democracy.

    9. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by Thinkit3 · · Score: 1

      Hmm, true. But an amendment would enshrine it as a basic value of the nation. Slavery wasn't guaranteed in the constitution either, but it needed to be specifically disallowed for it to go away.

      --
      -Libertarian secular transhumanist
    10. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok lets use the original numbers.

      Lest say I create something when i am 20. 20+14 = 34. I then renew 34+14= 48. Now the average life expectancey of that era? Like 50-60?. So it covered pretty much the life of the author. And it provided for an 'out' 14 years in.

      Now however we have extended it to twice an authors age pretty much. With no 'out'. What good is that?

      Not only that Mr Clinton decided for the rest of us through a treaty which prempts all law. That we need the 'rest of the worlds' copyright/patent law. The DMCA and the Bonno acts are the treatys implimentations in our law. Because everyone else is doing it. Its obviously GOOD for us!

      Copyright and Patent was ONE of the reasons we cut ourselves off from Europe. Its the reason that stuff is in there. Now we went and put it back in place. Dumb dumb dumb dumb!

      A clarification would be good. But it would probably read like stereo instructions. With lots of little weasly things. No we do not need the current lot putting that sort of thing in. We need to make sure they realize what they are doing to the people that voted them IN.

    11. Re:We need a constitutional amendment here. by tambo · · Score: 1

      >It did not create "intellectual property", a highly offensive misnomer, it created a
      >temporary loan from the public domain, to which all ideas belong once expressed.

      Interesting suggestion, but ultimately incorrect.

      You suggest that people who create "intellectual property" - useful inventions and works of art - hold no rights over their inventions except those generously given to them by the government. That's great for the public and the public domain, but it's ultimately self-inhibiting.

      Inventors and artists always have one kind of intellectual property right: trade secret. Inventors can use their useful techniques in the secrecy of their labs. Artists can choose to reveal their works under only strict confidentiality relationships. How are you going to stop this - require artists and inventors to disclose their inventions to the public or risk prison?

      In the end, would it make much difference if the newest Harry Potter book were freely available in Borders but protected by copyright law, or whether it were sold only to customers who's signed the publisher's confidentiality agreement? The latter case may well result in even more absurd and draconian restrictions on the public.

      The whole point of intellectual property law is to avoid this (much worse) scenario. The only realistic way to coerce authors and inventors to reveal their works to the world is to give them some kind of reward. The simplest - and, arguably, fairest - such reward is a recognition of their rights to their creation. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

      The patent system is flawed - obviously, patents like Amazon's OneClick "business method" and faster-than-lightspeed communication should never be granted. The copyright system is even much more flawed - "limited term" should not be legally extensible to a trillion years. But, the fundamentals of intellectual property law are sound, and substantially different from your suggestion.

      David Stein, Esq.

      --
      Computer over. Virus = very yes.
  4. new Study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    A new study released by the Gartner Group has revealed that articles about spiderweb copyright laws are slightly more enjoyable than punching yourself repeatedly in the balls. However, the self testes pugilist society has issued a rebuttal. "nad punching is still a growing activity" said one source. "and it appeals to all age groups".

    1. Re:new Study by Sri+Lumpa · · Score: 1

      "nad punching is still a growing activity" said one source. "and it appeals to all age groups". ...irrespective of gender.

      --
      "The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
  5. Irony here, academia hates copyright? by Thinkit3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Isn't academia obsessed with credit for ideas? When is the last time a paper was published anonymously? Ideas exist outside of time. This should work against both copyright/patent and academia's obsession with "plaigarism" and keeping track of credit.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
    1. Re:Irony here, academia hates copyright? by wol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Credit for ideas, yes. Laws that are microscopic in detail and miss the actual target are hated.

      --
      If you think deeply enough, you will have no single direction for your outrage.
    2. Re:Irony here, academia hates copyright? by Sardonis · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Plagiarism (which is frowned upon in academia) is very different from copyright infringement.

      Plagiarism is copying work from others and publishing it als your own (i.e. pretend it is entirely your own work). It is like renaming a metallica mp3 as Sardonis\'_Hefty_Metal_Band-Roll_Now.mp3 (or whatever) and pretending I wrote the music/text and did the performance, recording, mixing, etc.

      Copyright infringers copy a work without permission, but usually give lots of credit. Someone sharing mp3's from metallica is usually quite upfront about the fact that they are made by metallica.

    3. Re:Irony here, academia hates copyright? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Yes, and in the case of plagiarism the usual result is simply that someone else gets initial credit for your work.

      And it is important in academia that credit be assigned correctly: the source of a given work has much to do with how well the contents of that work are accepted by others. Ideas exist outside of time, certainly, but the quality of those ideas is a function of the caliber of the originator.

      Credit in the copyright sense generally has to do with transfer of wealth to the proper parties, which is very different.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    4. Re:Irony here, academia hates copyright? by SEWilco · · Score: 1
      The reason why academia frowns on plagiarism is because of the goal of schools.

      Schools are intended to teach ideas to the minds of students, and to produce new ideas.

      If a student writes a paper by plagiarism, that does not show that the student has learned anything. The student is supposed to write to show that they know a concept, and that they are able to express their understanding of that concept -- if it is a research paper, the student also has to go find information about the topic. If the student does not learn what is supposed to be learned, they are wasting their time and money, and may not have concepts which are needed later in school or life.

      If a faculty member or advanced student uses plagiarism instead of creating new ideas, that person is cheating society from getting the new ideas which the school is supposed to produce.

    5. Re:Irony here, academia hates copyright? by keriaan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking of plagarism. I've been in academia for a bit and while I am not obsessed with plagarism I do respect the notion of giving credit when credit is due.

      I think Slashdot should have a plagarism option for moderation. I am sure it happens on Slashdot occassionaly.

      What got me thinking about this was the following two post s in the recent "Microsoft to do for Usenet what it did for Email & The Web?" discussion.

      once again, google leads the way (Score:5, Interesting)
      jd142 (129673) on Sunday August 03, @11:21AM (#6599910)

      and

      Re:usenet is ok the way it is (Score:4, Informative)
      by Shaklee39 (694496) on Sunday August 03, @11:27AM (#6599958)

      The words in the body of the posts are verbatim.

      Shalee39 and jd142 may be the same person but why leave any doubt?

    6. Re:Irony here, academia hates copyright? by rollingcalf · · Score: 1

      Plaigarism is different from violating copyright. Even though Shakespeare and Beethoven's works are in the public domain, and you are free to copy and distribute them, you still can't legally claim that you wrote Hamlet or composed any of Beethoven's symphonies.

      --
      ---------
      There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
  6. For those of you who can't read... by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Seems like most early posters didn't really read the article. Okay, a summation:

    1. Copyright law was never meant to apply to the individual
    2. It does now
    3. It is way too specific in some areas, but not specific enough in others.
    4. It often stifles creativity, but when used correctly, it encourages it.
    5. Copyright law is NOT BAD, just our implementation of it.

    so... conclusion:

    Add some sort of "fee" to our taxes (maybe just on ISPs, more like on everyone) that allows us, as individuals, to use any copyrighted material we want, as long as we don't try to sell it, without robbing the owners of the copyright - cause we are paying them.

    I like it...

    By the way... read the damn article before posting. /. ain't for the ignorant, so stop letting yourself be excluded (aka ignored)!

    1. Re:For those of you who can't read... by silas_moeckel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So your pretty much for enacting a tax that would give back to the movie record and software industry to compensate them for copyright infringement? This sounds ungly who gets to decide the value of the software does MS get a huge chunk because office 2005 costs $2005 a copy with Sony recods decide it's music is worth more etc etc etc. Sure you could give a fixed rate but that ruins the small expensive custom applications like say Oracle server that wont make it up in volume (assuming that the taxes get distributed by volume?) And wouldent monoply powers just play into this anyway with the recond industry cutting deals to host there realy fast servers on prem to scew the download results of top 20's garbage if they are so much faster more people will download them.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    2. Re:For those of you who can't read... by PyromanFO · · Score: 3, Informative
      but when used correctly, it encourages it.
      He never actually says this, the closest he gets is that he believes in a moral obligation to recompensate artists.
    3. Re:For those of you who can't read... by Hoo00 · · Score: 1

      Why do you care who gets what? Let the corporations fight among themselves. As far as I am concern, the tax allows us to listen to the music the way we want, and run office 2005...

    4. Re:For those of you who can't read... by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      Copyright law is NOT BAD, just our implementation of it.

      so...

      Add some sort of "fee" to our taxes

      Raise taxes! Of course! It's not like we aren't already paying a torrential flood of taxes every year now.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    5. Re:For those of you who can't read... by Alsee · · Score: 1

      1. Copyright law was never meant to apply to the individual

      Exactly.

      2. It does now

      See number 1: Copyright law was never meant to apply to the individual. (As long as we don't try to sell it.)The entire problem lies in trying to apply copyright law were it was never intened to apply. It is generally easy to identify anyone who commercially exploits a work. It is extremely effective to sue anyone who commercially exploits a work. Traditional copyright law is easy and effective at doing the job it was intended to do.

      Copyright law was not intened to apply to non-commercial use. The entire "copyright crisis" is nothing but the mess caused by trying to apply copyright law were it isn't supposed to apply. Go back to original copyright law and the problem goes away.

      Of course going back to original copyright law would mean some profits won't be as big. Tough luck, the law does not exist to ensure that any particular business will make any particular size profits. There will still be commercial uses and there will still be profits and creators will still be paid.

      Copyright law is a good thing when it retains its original intent and limitations.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    6. Re:For those of you who can't read... by owlicks58 · · Score: 1

      If you had actually read the article you would see that the author didn't imply this at all. He said that software should have different regulations than music. "We should treat protections for computer software in a different way than music, for example, and lengthy copyright terms should be available only to those who bother to check in with the Copyright Office every few years." He also said that more detail is need in copyright laws for specifics like this, so a situation just as you mentioned wouldn't arise.

      --
      -Alex
    7. Re:For those of you who can't read... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      My question is, how are you going to apply such a tax? Is it *assumed* that a certain percentage of my income would have gone to buy what it covers, if I hadn't pirated it? what about people who use NONE of what's covered -- will they have a recourse? (Kinda like fighting the TV fee in Britain.)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    8. Re:For those of you who can't read... by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Yea it seems they are advicating a UK TV approach at least to music so if you have an ISP you pay the tax through them. AKA if you have an internet connection you have to pay. Hope thats only a residential internet connection I would hate to have a new charge on an OC3 or above if it's based on bandwith avalible.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    9. Re:For those of you who can't read... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      And imagine if such a tax were scaled to bandwidth, even for residential connections. There's quite a gap between dialup and cable modem; does the tax scale at the same order of magnitude? a few cents a month for dialup would become a few bucks a month for cable or DSL users.

      And then what about variations in real, available bandwidth? How do you convince the taxman that your theoretically 1Mbit cable (or whatever it is these days) typically only gets 0.25Mbit?

      Businesses would likely get a bulk deal, just as they do on raw bandwidth, so I doubt they'd be in quite the tax soup that consumers would be. Besides, businesses simply pass ALL taxes on to their customers, so over the long haul, it won't actually touch their bottom lines. Tho it will make them less competitive, since a foreign company that doesn't have to raise prices to cover this added cost now has a leg up on American companies.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    10. Re:For those of you who can't read... by Scott+Treppa · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point.

      Those who founded this country and that piece of law felt that information should be public domain. ALL information.

      But this of course would not lead to much creativity. Only those who are rich orcould find a patron (the way it was usually done during the Renaissance) would be able to make a living creating.

      Realizing this our founders decided that they would TOLERATE a small MONOPOLY for the sake of creativity.

      They gave authors Copyright.

      Somehow (read: greed) that has turned into a mad dash for cash and the assumption that anything and everything created is created in a vacuum with no influence from the culture in which is was formed. Nothing angers me more than hearing the RIAA, MPAA, or whoever accusing someone of STEALING a piece of music, movie, code. Those that died for our freedom, those that threw off the Old English Monarchy for a life of Liberty did so in order for its decendants to be free. Not to be imprisioned, fined, or harrassed because we are participating in the spread of our own culture.

      Copyright in this day and age has only one purpose. To make as much money as possible. Often times it isn't even the creator that gets the most money. So whats the point anymore? Why does it exist except to make Publishers richer?

      I don't have an answer for that. Not one that justifies the loss of Liberty.

      -Scott
      'Education and Religion are two things not regulated by supply and demand. The less of either the people have the less they want.' - The Charolette Observer, 1857

    11. Re:For those of you who can't read... by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 1

      I don't really understand how this refutes a straight-forward summation of an article...?

    12. Re:For those of you who can't read... by Scott+Treppa · · Score: 1

      Yes your original post was a summation, but it also offered a suggestion as to how things might be remedied through the implementation of a "tax". The point being that a band-aid tax will not solve the problem because the problem is the perception that copying information is morally wrong. Which it is most definitly not.

    13. Re:For those of you who can't read... by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 1

      The suggestion was actually from the original proposal. I did, admittedly, say I don't have a big problem with it, but it originates with the article. Sorry for being unclear.

  7. But it will never change! by groove10 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are too many wealthy vested interests in copyright law that change at this stage is nearly impossible. The interconnectedness of laws and elections and corporations make the changing of the law to include more logic and coherancy is impossible.

    The lawyers don't want change even though they see the problems everyday since it will keep more cases out of court and decrease their job opportunities.

    The monied corps don't want to change them because the ambiguity helps their cases as they can just throw money at lawyers and the courts in order to win their cases.

    The politicians don't want to change them because they are paid well for opposing such changes.

    Therefore, the only people who want them changed are people like you and me... The ones who are informed and see the problem. The only thing is that we are a small minority of the voting public.

    --
    MMORPG fan-boy? Prove your worth
    1. Re:But it will never change! by wol · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So start a letter writing compaign, call your Congressperson, do something instead of justing whining on Slashdot. The only way to overcome big money lobbying activity is to get the politicians to realize that a large amount of voters are unhappy. Remember, corporations can only contribute money, they can't vote. And it is the deliver of votes (or threat of delivery of votes) that is the only score that counts.

      --
      If you think deeply enough, you will have no single direction for your outrage.
    2. Re:But it will never change! by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

      The lawyers don't want change even though they see the problems everyday since it will keep more cases out of court and decrease their job opportunities.

      I disagree. Lawyers actually tend to argue for or against copyright on policy arguments. Some lawyers think that copyright can be a good thing if it meets certain criteria. Others feel it's like a property right and ought to be inherent.

      But I've never heard of any lawyer arguing for copyrights just so that they can stay in work.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    3. Re:But it will never change! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunatly all we voters care about is if we are going to get 'a tax break', or 'for the children', or they 'did something stupid' The rest of it we care not about...

  8. a bitter protest against copyrights by argoff · · Score: 1
  9. A new peer to peer model ?? by maharg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft Windows's "Network Neighborhood" feature, for example, is simply a way to swap files. Almost every software application that capitalizes on this central functionality is therefore a Kinko's of sorts, and decreeing all search-and-copy software to be illegal is simply too sweeping a move for a court to make.

    Now of course, I'm not suggesting that y'all start firing up windows, but I find this point really intriguing - filesharing using the SMB protocol over port 139 a'la redmond. What (c|w)ould the RIAA do about that ?

    --

    $ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
    @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
    1. Re:A new peer to peer model ?? by wfberg · · Score: 4, Informative

      Now of course, I'm not suggesting that y'all start firing up windows, but I find this point really intriguing - filesharing using the SMB protocol over port 139 a'la redmond. What (c|w)ould the RIAA do about that ?

      Has been done. A company called scour.com used to use SMB. It got sued by the MPAA and RIAA and NMPA and subsequently went bankrupt.

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    2. Re:A new peer to peer model ?? by jd142 · · Score: 1

      What could the RIAA do about it? A lot since you are specifically sharing copyrighted material, and if you make the material available to a guest account so that anyone can see it, there's no real distinction between doing that and doing Kazaalite.

      If you want to do something like that, there's a better way.

      Set up an ftp server or some other share. Leave one directory visible to anonymous. Encrypt the username and password as part of that directory. For example, ftp://my.warez.net/idrt-qsdd

      Would mean that the user name is user and the password is pass. Now, IANAL, but it seems to me that if you specifically deny the RIAA and any of its delegates from decrypting that, then if they figured out my supersecret encryption formula, they would be guilty of violating the DMCA. Simply put a license agreement in the public area that says that by accepting the license the user agrees that s/he will not reveal either the contents of the directory or the encryption method to the riaa, mpaa, their delegates, etc.

      Who can be the first to crack my secret code? ;)

    3. Re:A new peer to peer model ?? by praedictus · · Score: 1

      Who can be the first to crack my secret code? ;)
      u x'b;t rtoe kwrrwea 'r rgw wbs id rgw jwtvi'es

      --
      Watashi wa chikyubutsurigakusha desu.
    4. Re:A new peer to peer model ?? by An'Desha+Danin · · Score: 1

      I believe the last time somebody posed that question on /. the answer came out to be roughly like this:

      *AA lawyer: Your honor, Mr. Gates is guilty of contributory infringement.
      Gates: Shut your piehole, meathead, or I'll slap you with this sack of money.
      Lawyer: Your honor, I can't stand for this kind of treatment!
      Judge: I believe the defendent told you to shut your piehole, counsel.

      I'd give credit for that, but I forgot who wrote it or what article it was in response to.

      --
      Anything you might ever need to say about anything has already been said better by Penny Arcade.
  10. Ideas.. by CashCarSTAR · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How to fix it? Lots of desire..little ideas...

    Here's one.

    Copyright is absolute (except for fair use) for a period of 2 years. After that, non-commercial use/sharing is allowed. When the copyright holder neglects the copyright, the whole thing goes to public domain.

    That is a very good balance between the rights of the copyright holder and the public for the digital era. Maybe it's a too much in favour of the public, but frankly, they've made their bed.

    1. Re:Ideas.. by OldMiner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They? Who is this mysterious they? Think about what you're saying. You're thinking of some specific people who you feel have abused copyright and proposing a change in the system to punish them. However, your solution would quickly screw over anyone who creates unique material and doesn't get it immediately to market. The result would likely be that the large conglomerates which you're targetting would be the only way an author, an artist, a poet, or a composer could hope to do make a living. Everyone would need a massive advertising splurge to push interest for a month, create the newest fad, and sell all that's possible in the miniscule window of two years.

      And that's ignoring the fact that the GPL exists only under the auspices of copyright. You'd destroy that too. Such a proposal as you've made is completely short-sighted.

      --
      You like splinters in your crotch? -Jon Caldara
    2. Re:Ideas.. by CashCarSTAR · · Score: 1

      Actually no, companies just need to make it not worth people's whiles to need to go to non-commercial sources, and that they can provide a better product. This would involve not pissing off their customers.

      As for the GPL, Frankly, I do not think that the GPL has much to worry about. There would always be distrubition, so the commercial copyright would maintain itself. Frankly, non-commercial violations are NOT a major concern.

    3. Re:Ideas.. by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Actually that sounds unashemedly nightmareish in every single respect. There is really no regards in which that doesn't practically kiss the feet of the copyright holder. It's probably one of the most anti-public copyright reform proposals I've ever heard of.

      Try again.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    4. Re:Ideas.. by RickHunter · · Score: 1

      Eliminating the GPL is a good thing. Its stated purpose is (or was) to undermine unjust and immoral copyright laws. If copyright laws are changed to be more open and facilitate sharing, a lot of the justification that made the GPL necessary disappears.

    5. Re: Ideas.. by gidds · · Score: 1
      And that's ignoring the fact that the GPL exists only under the auspices of copyright...

      What I want to know is what happens in 75 (or 100 or 3500 or however long the term gets) years' time, when software that's currently GPLed enters the public domain...

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    6. Re:Ideas.. by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      Two years isn't even enough time to complete one advertising cycle. 20 years should be the minimum.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    7. Re:Ideas.. by CashCarSTAR · · Score: 1

      My problem with that is 20 years is way too much. Plenty of things go the way of the dodo in 2-3 years time. I think that commercial relevence is a good way to factor it in. (But extend it for actual commercial competition)

    8. Re:Ideas.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > However, your solution would quickly screw over anyone who creates unique material and doesn't get it immediately to market.

      I believe MS and the RIAA have both cornered this market in something we like to call cloning. I doubt any unique work from an individual is likely to be still making much if any money. So, the copyright owner has to get it to market fast. If they can find a conglomerate publisher or are willing to try to sell it online (that's actually a strong possible, now days), two years from date of completition should be enough. Now, this doesn't mean I agree with the original author's comment, mostly because once the not-for-profit era begins, it'll be like the owner doesn't have a copyright, more or less (the exceptions being for companies who do elevator music, license hip songs for commercials and movies, etc).

    9. Re:Ideas.. by OldMiner · · Score: 1
      Its stated purpose is (or was) to undermine unjust and immoral copyright laws.

      This is probably wandering away from the topic at hand, but your statements are rather compelling. I've never heard such a claim before, and a quick Google revealed no results. Reading the frequently asked questions at Gnu's website didn't reveal such a vewipoint either.

      I've always been told that the reasoning behind the GPL was to insure that code once in the public domain would never disappear and become 'lost'. It's happened time and again. Freely produced code gets developed by a group, becomes the defacto standard, and then the group disolves. Spurious patches are added, but there is no organized project behind it. Then some company picks up the software, gets investment, and starts developing oft requested features. Soon, they're far in the lead of the free version that no one develops anymore, and they charge a bundle because they've become the new de facto standard.

      This situation would exist with the proposed scheme, but only on a grander scale. Since copyrighted works would suddenly become so much less valuable, people would be even more reluctant to release code. (Let alone other works.) Further, the GPL'ed code would be public domain in two years. At that point, a private company can take the code, start making improvements to it, keep it all closed source, tight lock and key, and start making a bundle. Is this perhaps a good thing? Perhaps, but I don't think so. That company wouldn't be anywhere if it weren't first for the great effort put into the initial development, and those developers deserve to get something back for their work.

      When I release code under the GPL, my intention is not one of improving the economy and propping up new entrepreneurships. My intent is to make an improvement which benefits others and which will likely come back to benefit me. As I see it, the GPL isn't about good morals as much as it is a certain amount about well-intentioned greed.

      --
      You like splinters in your crotch? -Jon Caldara
    10. Re:Ideas.. by RickHunter · · Score: 1

      I seem to recall that RMS basically says this in one of his philosophy essays - that the purpose of copyleft is to use copyright law (which prevents sharing of information and knowledge) against itself. Without copyright, there is no need for copyleft, because there is no legal backing behind attempts to keep knowledge secret.

    11. Re:Ideas.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From actually speaking to RMS numerous times, the purpose of copyleft is to keep source code in the open, not hidden. Without copyright, source code would still be kept as a trade secret, and that wouldn't have helped him when he wanted to add a feature to the network printer driver.

    12. Re:Ideas.. by shaitand · · Score: 1

      keeping code secret is as simple as not giving out to begin with...

      Public domain is closer to the BSD license, there is no requirement that something the public domain actually be put where the public can get to it. You can modify public domain code and distribute a binary without distributing the code.

      The thing that marks the gpl out from the crowd is that if you want to distribute the binary, YOU HAVE to make the code available.

      If there is no law concerning the source code, the default is I can do what I want, not I have to give it out.

      If I write a book, file for copyright, then manage to die and be resurrected, or pass it to my children, there is nothing that compels my family to actually give anyone a copy of the book just because it was public domain. It just means they have no recourse if they do give someone a copy and that someone starts passing out copies of it on the street.

    13. Re: Ideas.. by shaitand · · Score: 1

      It's hard for that to happen, everytime you add a patch you essentially have created a new copyrighted work. That's why "blah programming 2nd edition" has a whole new copyright even though it's only a revision of blah programming 1st edition.

  11. Good Ideas, But They'll Never Fly by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    " Add some sort of "fee" to our taxes (maybe just on ISPs, more like on everyone) that allows us, as individuals, to use any copyrighted material we want, as long as we don't try to sell it, without robbing the owners of the copyright - cause we are paying them."

    Unfortunately, though this would be th easiest of solutions to implement, it would never pass...

    -ISP's and their users would complain that it's a "tax", and would fight it to the end.

    -Artists with big followings (U2, Garth Brooks, Pink Floyd, etc etc) would complain that this method shortchanges them in revenues. Bands and record companies fight it to the end.

    We're not going to get rid of copyright, and we're not going to get rid of DRM at this point either. Instead of splitting our energies and efforts, we should be focusing on getting two things done...

    -Lobbying Congress with all of our might to have copyright terms reduced to a reasonable exemption. Either a set term, like 20 years, or the lifetime of the artists. No extensions beyond that.

    -Pressuring record companies through a campaign of public relations and a music boycott to get an Apple Store-like solution up for all copyrighted music at reasonable rates, like 99 cents a song. And this pressure should not include copyright violations. That destroys any moral credibility we may have.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    1. Re:Good Ideas, But They'll Never Fly by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      And this pressure should not include copyright violations. That destroys any moral credibility we may have.

      Yeah, violating an unjust law never gets you anywhere. Just look at the various minority rights movements. If Susan B Anthony would have voted in that election, well that would have destroyed all her credibility, and nothing would have changed. Or that Rosa Parks chick. She knew her place.

      In summary, we need to bend over and take it in the ass, it's the only way we will ever win!

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Good Ideas, But They'll Never Fly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      American Lawyers tell you with a straight face that a corporation is a person, and that a song or movie made while in the employ of a corporation was a "work for hire" and is therefore the creation of the corporation. Corporations can and do outlive any natural human. So even a lifetime copyight wouldn't work.

    3. Re:Good Ideas, But They'll Never Fly by Danse · · Score: 1

      -ISP's and their users would complain that it's a "tax", and would fight it to the end.

      I didn't see everyone fighting tooth and nail against the "tax" on recordable media. I don't think the public has enough awareness of the situation to mount any sort of defense against such a tax. That said, I think you're correct about the opposition we'd see from the Recording Industry. Reducing the terms to something sensible is really the only way to go. 20 years I could live with, but not much beyond that or it defeats the purpose of giving the public unfettered access to the work. The problem with today's terms is that none of us will live to see anything created in our lifetime become public domain, even assuming that the terms aren't further extended (which is pretty farfetched). The term was originally 14 years, with a possible extension of 14 more. I really don't believe it should be any longer than that now.


      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    4. Re:Good Ideas, But They'll Never Fly by EvilSporkMan · · Score: 1

      I didn't see everyone fighting tooth and nail against the "tax" on recordable media
      The one where I have to pay attention and buy CDs labeled "Data" instead of "Music"? Wow, that really takes a lot of fighting...

      --
      -insert a witty something-
    5. Re:Good Ideas, But They'll Never Fly by Danse · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can get around it easily, but you'd think the very idea of having to pay a sort of pre-emptive tax based on the assumption that they are going to commit copyright infringement would piss people off. Especially when it remains a crime to do so even if they've paid the tax.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    6. Re:Good Ideas, But They'll Never Fly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A very sensible idea here is to only change the length of the copyright on stuff copyrighted since the change in the law occured.

  12. Re:Too lazy to click? Read it here! by AndyFewt · · Score: 3, Funny

    Girl Scouts who sing "Puff, the Magic Dragon" owe royalties
    Oh of course, the record label needs all the money they can get to keep suing kazaa users.

  13. Why all the confusion by porkface · · Score: 1

    I've never had any trouble seeing how "traditional" copyright law could and should be applied to modern technology.

    IANAL, but why is everyone else having so much trouble seeing this? I suggest this is only because they've created this holy war and want to change copyright law to suit their battle tactics.

    The courts should know better and be able to act as a stablizing force, but they're not technologists so they can't be sure there shouldn't be a difference. Judgement: the courts need to continue to try to learn more about technology. Good job so far, but still a long way to go.

    And Congress? Ha! They're simply about money. Yes, money first, votes second.

    1. Re:Why all the confusion by gilroy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Blockquoth the poster:

      I've never had any trouble seeing how "traditional" copyright law could and should be applied to modern technology.

      Oh, really? Well, you're an infringer. You see, you've made a copy of the slashdot article and probably of the main article, too. You didn't get the explicit permission of the copyright holder, either. And maybe you've covered your dirty little crime by clearing your browser's cache, but the fact remains: To have read the article at all, you had to willfully cause to be created a copy of that article.


      Ludicrous? Sure. Implicit in the whole idea of how the Net and the Web work? Certainly. In contradiction of "traditional" copyright? Without a doubt.


      And before you unload on me, consider that (a) Congress had to add language providing for "emphemeral" copies and (b) the Copyright Cartel fought tooth-and-nail to stop such language from being added.

    2. Re:Why all the confusion by Alsee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Traditional copyright only had lawsuits seizing profits from infringers and giving them to authors. No profit, no infringement.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  14. Lets See by Crashmarik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You have 4 ways to protect essentially the same thing.

    Copyright
    Trademark
    Patent
    Trade Secret

    The rules governing them overlap, contradict and in the case of patent are usually poorly applied(prior art).

    Toss in 200 years of technological progress that have reduced difficult or impossible tasks to completely trivial tasks. (Publishing books, reproducing music, etc)

    Add in the fact that the laws were originally designed to deal with works that were matters of entertainment or education now deal with pedestrian business tools. (Theres not many businesses that will stop because a copyrighted book is unavailable. Theres quite a few that will stop if the copy protection on their software goes bezerk).

    My point is it took a Harvard Law prof. to figure out the system is broke ? The only people its not broke for are the I.P. lawyers and for them its a license to extort money.

    1. Re:Lets See by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not really. Trade secrets and patents are mutually exclusive. And trade secrets can protect things that no patent could ever be granted for. Copyrights and patents are also mutually exclusive. And trademarks cannot be trade secrets or copyrighted, and it would be quite a stretch to try for even a design patent on a trademark.

      Really they're all quite different types of protection, with different origins, and the policies behind them are different as well. That's why it's so silly to lump them together as IP law.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    2. Re:Lets See by RickHunter · · Score: 1

      Trade Secret

      Actually, "Trade Secrets" have no formal legal status. The only way they're protected is if someone breaches a contract that says they can't reveal them. The concept that they were protected got started with the DeCSS case, where the MPAA claimed that DeCSS was illegal because CSS had "trade secret" protections, and so could not be legally re-implemented.

      The only people its not broke for are the I.P. lawyers and for them its a license to extort money.

      Especially since its practically impossible now to be an artist or innovator of any sort and not infringe on someone's "IP". Whether its copyrights for things 70 years old that no-one's heard for decades or patents that cover everything under the sun, there's very little that someone doesn't have exclusive "rights" to.

      Modern "IP" law is immoral.

    3. Re:Lets See by owlicks58 · · Score: 1

      That's like someone who doesn't know about computers saying "oh, processors, ram, motherboards, and pci cards, they're all the same thing". Each of those things you named apply to different pieces of non-tangible goods. Copyrights traditionally protect an individuals works as pertaining to music, art, or written works. Trademarks protect something typically associated with a business. Such as the Nike swoosh and the Target logo. Patents protect a process or idea so that they may not be copied until the owner of the patent has had time to establish his or her idea. And trade secrets shouldn't even be on that list as they are not directly able to be upheld as a law.

      --
      -Alex
    4. Re:Lets See by Crashmarik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The original post was not intended as a Troll, unfortunately it seems to have become one.

      IANAL but I have had considerable experience on both sides of the fence in this particular issue, its apparent that those replying either haven't had the same level of experience or are deliberately being deceptive.

      Lets take the aboves example.

      The target logo. This can be trademarked as a business mark, it can be copyrighted as a visual work, it can be registered as a design patent, if it were used to calibrate optical equipment it could be considered a trade secret. The same thing can be covered by any facet of "IP" law its all a matter how its first approached. A little introspection and you can see other possibilities. Rambus instead of just patenting its memory architecture could have tried to anticipate the likely layouts and copyrighted them as visual works. There is the tried and true scheme of designing unique connectors and patenting them to prevent third party products from being made. Or you can build a brinter so it won't work without a copyrighted rom chip in the cartridge, and then patent the idea.

      Trade secrets can and are enforced directly by federal law. I suggest you read the uniform trade secret act before making such a statement.

      Back to the original point, You have 4 branches of law covering exactly the same thing. The thing they cover is the use and distribution of information. The people who wrote the laws can be excused because when they were written the nature of information was not as well understood as it currently is. Legislators currently writing the flawed extension can also be forgiven as mathematical information theory is very specialised and complex a field of study.

      What is not forgiveable is maintenance of overly complex and pointless laws that do not map to reality.

    5. Re:Lets See by owlicks58 · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. You made a good clarification on the original post, thank you.

      --
      -Alex
  15. student copyright by jefu · · Score: 4, Interesting
    One of the author's comments is that the British patent office recommends that schoolchildren copyright (and mark as copyright) their essays.

    This raises an interesting question. turnitin claims to detect plagiarism in essays turned in by students. But those essays are then stored by turnitin in order to detect future plagiarism (of course since we can't track the use of the essay, I have wondered if turnitin isn't feeding the essays out to one of the essay sales sites). If the essay is copyright by the author, this seems to me to be out of the realm of fair use. Perhaps a few students should go after turnitin in the courts.

    1. Re:student copyright by VCAGuy · · Score: 1

      I may have to try this: submit my paper with an embedded EULA that prohibits storage in an information retrieval system or reproduction in any form other than for the purpose of assigning me a grade--then, see if I can get the EFF on board for the lawsuit :-)

      --
      Q: "Why do sound techs say 'check 1, 2'?"
      A: "Cause if they could count any higher they'd be lighting techs."
    2. Re:student copyright by pbhj · · Score: 1

      I know this is a bit picky - but this is slashdot right?!

      FYI, there is no "British patent office" - it's the UK Patent Office ... that UK bit means the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. :0)>

    3. Re:student copyright by jefu · · Score: 1
      OK. I apologize, I meant the Patent Office for "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". I was led to elision by the sheer weight of the phrase.

      But I'll admit to curiousity - is there a "Less Britain" or a "Lesser Britain" or something to compare "Great Britain" with that thence requires "Great" as an adjective? Or is "Great" a statement of Goodness and Niceness? Or an implication that it subsumes all of that "Little Island" (vis Randy Newman's "Faust").

    4. Re:student copyright by pbhj · · Score: 1
      Wikipedia gives an answer ...
      Why 'Great' Britain rather than Britain? There are in fact two britains: the island of Britain in the British Isles and the land of Britain in France. In French these are known as Grande Bretagne and Bretagne, in English as Great Britain and Brittany. The word "Great" in this context has its old meaning of "big" as in "she was great with child" or "Greater London." Likewise, the ending "-y" on the end of "Brittany" has the meaning "Little," as in "doggy," meaning "small dog," or "Jimmy," meaning "little Jim." From about the 16th century to the 20th century, the political and/or military control of Great Britain and the United Kingdom extended over a large number of territories all around the world, and all those entities together were known as "the British Empire."

      http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great+Britain

      Cheers

      pbhj

  16. Re:Too lazy to click? Read it here! by macdaddy357 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why are a group of little girls singing about marijuana in the first place?

    --
    How ya like dat?
  17. The changing times? by AndyFewt · · Score: 2, Funny

    THEN CAME FILE SWAPPING ON THE NET and the all-purpose computers attached to it. With the right software, individuals could copy digital content perfectly, quickly, and cheaply--and the presence of a (C) symbol did little to deter them from doing so.

    In theory, of course, Title 17 applies to everyone. Even the Sony case of 1984 included a token individual defendant, a VCR owner who was the alleged direct infringer. But no one demanded that he pay damages or change his behavior. More recently the Recording Industry Association of America has sought the identities of individuals who use Internet file-trading services and has brought (and settled) suits against college students alleged to be organizing file-swapping circles within their university intranets.


    Of course, they know the REAL pirates now! Those damn girl scouts singing puff the magic dragon without paying! Those poor artists.. oh wait, those poor record company execs/shareholders! Oh and for those who still think the RIAA are going to sue everyone who ever opened a kazaa client (Hi Mike!)..

    The recording industry is not going to sue the tens of thousands of Americans who engage in these practices. But it hopes to make an example of a few users to add teeth to the infringement warnings that file-swapping services send to their customers--and to pressure those services to pressure their customers to stop copying files.

    1. Re:The changing times? by len_harms · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The recording industry is not going to sue the tens of thousands of Americans who engage in these practices. But it hopes to make an example of a few users to add teeth to the infringement warnings that file-swapping services send to their customers--and to pressure those services to pressure their customers to stop copying files.

      hmm isnt that extortion? m-w

  18. Cable and Copyright Infringement by TLouden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some (maybe all) people have to pay a small fee every time the get their cable bill which claims to be a 'copyright infringement' fee. The idea here is that some people will copy/record what they watch and therefore the producers of that material must be paid for this infringement. So this assumes that everyone that has cable is breaking the law and so they must pay. So does this mean that if I'm already guilty of the crime I might as well do it, what about innocence before guilt? Does this seam backwards to anyone else?

    --
    -Tim Louden
    1. Re:Cable and Copyright Infringement by Comfortably+Numb · · Score: 1

      So does this mean that if I'm already guilty of the crime I might as well do it, what about innocence before guilt?

      Actually, if you've already paid the tax for doing it, shouldn't you be legally allowed to do it?

    2. Re:Cable and Copyright Infringement by TLouden · · Score: 1

      That's kinda what I was saying, if they assume I've done it and charge me for it them what more can they do to me if I then deside to actually do it, if the sue me then what's the point of the fee when they are going to attack those who break the law for real anyways, and if I can do it without being sued then everyone could be recording their TV 24/7 and then cut their subscription when their favorite show stop getting new material, or better, just one person on the block has a subscription and everyone just gets the tapes from them and pays for the subscription.

      --
      -Tim Louden
    3. Re:Cable and Copyright Infringement by MindNumbingOblivion · · Score: 1
      Let's not forget the charge that recording shows without commercials (TiVo allows such, and, correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't it allow you to completely skip commercials? sadly, I can't afford such wonderful technology /me poor) is "theft" because of the fact that the person recording doesn't see all the wonderful things the sponsor of said program has for them to buy, supposedly bringing down the revenue of the sponsor. Can't remember which imbecile TV bigwig said this, if can be found please post link.

      I agree, if I have to pay an "infringement fee" whether or not I have recorded, pirated, ripped or what have you, I'm going to take the opportunity to build up my collection of my favorite shows (no point buying all eleven seasons of M*A*S*H (C) [just to be safe /sarcasm] if FX (C) has a four episode block every afternoon and repeated the following morning). I think the idea in the article, about a fee for the ISPs that took care of royalties, if it were reasonable, would be tolerable. The reason I download whatever music I download (usually not Brittany (C) Spears (C), Emin(C)m, nor Metalli(C)a) is because I don't have the money to buy a fifteen dollar cd when there's only one song that's worth paying a couple dollars for. I think the issue of a pre-emptive "infringment fee" on cable, while it is insulting to have to pay for a "crime" I probably haven't committed, if applied to webcasting (so long as it's kept reasonable) would take care of most of the things the publishers and the individuals are at odds about. Most of the arguments I've heard detracting the current "legality" of webcasting has to do with the outrageous fees placed, as described in the article. I haven't heard many people who were just totally unwilling to pay anything. My beef with the recording industry is the same as most of the people I talk to on a daily basis, that they're a bunch of fatcats.

      Before I stray to far off topic (though I feel the article and the issue of the friasco the RIAA is in the process of making are intrinsically related), I'd better step off of my soapbox.

      [pulls out freeze ray and sets to work on hapless town]

      --
      #define CLUE 0
    4. Re:Cable and Copyright Infringement by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Can't remember which imbecile TV bigwig said this, if can be found please post link.

      Google: TV bathroom contract (I'm Feeling Lucky)

      Jamie Kellner, Chairman and CEO of AOL/Time Warner's Turner Broadcasting division. "Your contract with the network when you get the show is you're going to watch the spots," he says. "Otherwise you couldn't get the show on an ad-supported basis." He says that people who use VCRs or Personal Video Recorders to record shows and then skip through the commercials during playback are particularly irresponsible. By not watching the commercials "you're actually stealing the programming," he says. But what about going to the bathroom during commercials? Is that allowed in the "contract"? Only if you really have to go, he answers: there's only "a certain amount of tolerance for going to the bathroom."

      Absolutely classic.

      The scary part is that these people are DEAD SERIOUS. Just like when Jack Valenti (head of MPAA) testified to congress that "the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone".

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    5. Re:Cable and Copyright Infringement by MindNumbingOblivion · · Score: 1
      Danke...It's still as asinine as I remember when the story first broke.

      [running from chidren throwing balls to stop his using freeze-ray]

      --
      #define CLUE 0
  19. Interesting Point by nuggz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Good question I had wondered, so I looked.
    From their site.

    http://www.turnitin.com/static/legal_document.ht ml #archiving

    Commercial use of a work may still be "fair use" under U.S. Copyright Law ... the use does not "materially impair the marketability of the work which is copied."

    That superficially solid, however by using it to detect plagurism decreases the marketability of the work.
    One of the stated purposeses of turnitin.com is to destroy the business of "paper mills" or "digital paper mills". As such these actions likely do decrease the marketability of the work either directly or indirectly.

    Plagarism at school is NOT a crime AFAIK.
    Copyright infringement IS a crime. Copying works to impair the marketability of the work by the copyright holder is most certainly illegal, and morally wrong.

    1. Re:Interesting Point by Alsee · · Score: 2, Funny

      destroy the business of "paper mills" or "digital paper mills". As such these actions likely do decrease the marketability of the work either directly or indirectly. As such these actions likely do decrease the marketability of the work either directly or indirectly.

      LOL! What a beautifully twisted analysis :) Destroying the market for selling the paper to cheaters! You win a cookie for that one!

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    2. Re:Interesting Point by Shimbo · · Score: 1

      Plagarism at school is NOT a crime AFAIK

      At college, for anything submitted that counted to my final examination grade, I had to sign a declaration of originality. As I expect material gain from getting a good degree, it would be fraud.

  20. Yeah, it's OT, but a good point by useosx · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    > A gerrymandered tax code primarily costs the public
    > money--measured by overall inefficiency or extra taxes
    > unfairly levied on those without political capital.

    Can anyone say "Trickle-Down"? Does anyone believe in trickle-down? When the rich get tax breaks, the money doesn't trickle down to the poor, it trickles down to the coke dealers who sell the rich kids dope.

    And if you think the poor have as much political capital as the rich, just ask all the black folks who were turned away from voting in Florida in 2000 because they were "felons"...when their only crime was Voting While Black. One article among many about it.

    Now if only I were as eloquent as Mr. Zittrain, I wouldn't be modded down as both Flamebait and OT.

  21. Redundant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When are people going to start marking these as redundant or offtopic? It was funny the first time, but now the joke is getting old.

    1. Re:Redundant by Thing+1 · · Score: 1
      This is the first time I've seen it, and I'm still laughing five minutes later. As in, out loud. I thank the grandparent for the plagiarism!

      And I, for one, welcome our new nad-punching overlords.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  22. thanks for the pointer by jefu · · Score: 1

    They've updated their legal page quite a bit since I first looked at it (a couple years ago) and the information is much more complete. However, in several places it looks to me like they may be trying to make the law just by saying it is the law. I'm not in favor of students copying papers - though I do believe a fair amount of that problem is due to the laziness of the instructors - many of whom give the same assignments year after year after year. Still, turnitin feels more than a bit distasteful to me.

  23. Not ironic at all. It's a natural given. by kfg · · Score: 1

    If you remove an author's right to control the reproduction and use of his works and ideas then the "medium of exchange" naturally reduces to credit for authorship.

    Credit isn't a form of control, it's merely a from of aknowledgement or what you have contributed to the

    KFG

  24. Bugger, screwed up my tags and didn't preview by kfg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So let's try that again, shall we?

    Credit isn't a form of control, it's merely a from of aknowledgement of what you have contributed to the public domain.

    KFG

  25. Hmmmm by jefu · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I just spent some time browsing google for information on plagiarism and copy detection and ran into a very interesting point. If you were to post your essay on the web, its likely to be found as a plagiarized source. So, put your essay on the web, pass it in to turnitin, get zapped, then show the instructor that it was your web copy that was cited as the source material and watch the fun.

    Best to have a good grade going in. Be ready to drop the course and avoid the instructor in the future.

    OK, so I admit to being a bit of a subversive. But I've also noticed that the instructors most likely to use a service like this are the ones I have the least respect for. (And the ones who'd be most likely to give me a hard time for using a preposition at the end of a sentence. Something up with which they will not put.)

    1. Re:Hmmmm by Reziac · · Score: 1
      Something up with which they will not put.)

      And for *gasp* misquoting without even providing a proper attribution! Plagiarism for sure! ;)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  26. great summary.. by Suppafly · · Score: 1

    That is a pretty great summary of what's wrong with copyright laws as they currently stand. If you know anyone that just doesn't understand the issue, I'd point them to this article.

  27. Time for talk has ended by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    We got into this situation by copyright holders taking the rights they wanted. I fear the only way out is by taking them back.

    I propose an amendment to the constitution that grants copy rights for 8 years. Holders will be allowed all their current freedoms (including the right to sue the entire U.S.) but these rights will only last 8 years.

    There will be no grandfather clause. All copyrights prior to 1995 will expire immediately.

    There wlil be no negotiation either. Media companies have demonstrated their unwillingness to play fair; and artist have demonstrated their preference for companies that don't play fair.

    [Identity withheld for obvious reasons.]

  28. virtual crime by sentientbeing · · Score: 1

    I thought the article was brilliant. The bit about virtual world crime was just too much I cant believe people are actually trying to changes gamer's behaviour and placing artificial boundries in virtual worlds where the is no natural physical limits to what you can and cant do.

    I can imagine the description about the virtual world fraud and killing etc would concern politicians, psychologists and other scaremongers but the whole point of visiting a virtual environment is that you _know_its_not_real and behave accordingly. total freedom for an hour then turn off your PC and snap back to the real world. I cant see the problem. It might reduce crime and thrill seekers in the real world if you ask me.
    A bit tongue in cheek, but nobody complains about the millions of deaths of computer game characters every year. Some get shot, burned, fragged, melted in acid, run over by crazy taxis, vanished, or turned into inanimate objects. But people only complain if the characters that die belong to someone else. Its descrimination if you also ask me.

    --

    ------
    beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
    1. Re:virtual crime by TLouden · · Score: 1

      It's true and I agree that laws and regulations shouldn't limit what is in the games we chose to play, but on the other hand one could argue that this behaviour on the computer can trigger it in reality. I would argue then that horror movies, porno films, war movies, books, etc. should be regulated the same way and most people can see how that would be wrong. I'm fine with putting ratings on stuff like they do but to say you can't do that because we don't like it is wrong, it's freedom of speech if you ask me. Also, if a game is bad the market should keep it out of homes, not the government.

      --
      -Tim Louden
  29. No irony--no money in academia by MunchMunch · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Heh--Professors don't make any money, so there's not much irony there. While acadamia demands 'credit' in the form of citation, they are, as a basic element of the viral nature of ideas, opposed to charging money for it. You absolutely positively want every last researcher on the planet to use and cite your ideas. That's acadamia for acadamia's sake.

    Conversely, corporatization of ideas are the element that copyright law has a problem with, (often precisely because those ideas are now controlled by third parties and not the artist--i.e., recording artists almost never 'own' their works, corporate researchers sometimes have to fight for ownership of ideas they had during their contracts, etc...).

    The idea of copyright isn't about 'credit' for ideas, just money for ideas.

  30. Let's tear the whole thing up. by grantsellis · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Judging from the preveilance of "Let's tear up copyright law and start over" posts, copyright law is not popular here (duh).

    The kneejerk reaction, however, ignores the fact that copyright law has evolved because of specific problems and exists in its current form because that is what producers believe they require to turn a profit.

    Zittrain touches on this patchwork evolution of copyright with a comarison to tax law:
    a product of diverse interests shaped from the bottom up than as an elegant set of rules crafted by legal artisans to align with high-level principles.
    The original provisions for copyright law have been frequently quoted, because back when they were written they were deemed sufficient to get people to produce content. However, each time the producers (at first authors/composers and later corporations) felt they got screwed they lobbied for an extension.

    Examples of this problem / solution approach to law explain many of the changes. For instance, authors in the 1800s frequently were destitute in their later years because their works went out of copyright. Nothing like Sir Walter Scott as your poster boy to get sympathy.

    And what about those geniuses who die young before their works become popular (e.g. Stephen Crane). Their heirs were *really* pleased. Can anyone say life plus 50?
    Skip to a modern example from the article: look at the rediculous 55 inch TV rule. That's the result of bars competing with cinemaplexes without having to pay royalties for what they showed on huge screens. The resulting (stupid) rule gives a maximum size for a TV screen that does not qualify as competiting with the movies.

    Bear in mind each badly written novel generally takes at least a year to write and then several months for a team of people to edit, and each dirivitive pop CD takes about 6 months to write plus several months for a team of people to produce, and we all know about the effort put into each lousy movie. People (and corporations) don't want to see that effort go down the drain, and with profit margins being low in the various content creation industry, they'll fight like dogs for even more draconian rules unless they can be convinced relaxing the rules will help them.

    The publishing ogliarchy exists, ironically enough, because people don't like to waste their time listening to garbage. The industry offers people certain (minimal) guarantees, so most people listen to them. That, not money, is what gives them their clout. If we rewrote the law, lawmakers would listen to them out of the because they don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Thus, without addressing producer's concerns, we'd have to write *more* draconian laws

    I'd say salvation would come from addressing these concerns more then viva la revolucion style burning of the old laws. For instance, listening to my brother's downloaded music has pushed me towards buying CDs I wouldn't otherwise have known about. That is something content producers need to know before we get rational copyright law: Sharing can help them.

    Of course, since I'm writting this on a Mac, I have to add that salvation will come from the Apple Music store, just to gloat.

    IANAL, just an english major with an emphasis in publishing.
    1. Re:Let's tear the whole thing up. by GigsVT · · Score: 2

      authors in the 1800s frequently were destitute in their later years because their works went out of copyright.

      Wah. Really. If a janitor or a teacher or a computer programmer, or 99% of people retire, they don't continue to get paid for the work they have done. Why should that 1% be any different? Why should children get paid for the work of their parents?

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Let's tear the whole thing up. by J.+J.+Ramsey · · Score: 1

      "And what about those geniuses who die young before their works become popular (e.g. Stephen Crane). Their heirs were *really* pleased. Can anyone say life plus 50?"

      Heirs are not generally entitled to benefit from their ancestors' work. They may receive an inheritance from the ancestors' estate, but that depends on how the will was drawn up and what assets were left behind by the ancestor. In the case of an ancestors' premature death (esp. if the ancestor is a parent), there is this thing called life insurance. Usually, heirs can make a living on their own.

      Why should there be a special exception for artists' heirs?

    3. Re:Let's tear the whole thing up. by Zirnike · · Score: 1
      "ignores the fact that copyright law has evolved...because that is what producers believe they require to turn a profit"

      You have made a subtle, but important, error there. Not 'to turn a profit', but 'to maximize their profits'. They had no problem turning a profit beforehand, they just wanted more, more, more.

      They have no sense of belonging to a society, all they want is to grab as much cash as they can. When they do act like they're part of the world as a whole, you can generally see it as a obvious way to get publicity to boost profits, too...

      --
      I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
    4. Re:Let's tear the whole thing up. by changnian · · Score: 1
      .

      My immediate, instinctual position on copyright is: How Stupid. It is a fixed principle that unenforceable law is bad law; it does not deter, but it leaves in its wake disrespect for the Law in general.

      Copyright may have made sense when the dominant medium was print and presses were moderately expensive. Few owned a press, and a publisher who violated copyright could reasonably be discovered and penalized. Now that millions have the equivalent of a (cheesy) printing press and teevee station, enforcement -- even if desirable -- can never be strict. At best, there can only be draconian examples made.

      Then, there is the philosophical argument. Why should anyone, even the originator, be allowed to profit from the circulation of an idea and its expression? After all he has come to mean to us, doesn't M*cky belong to us all? If Shakespeare were alive today, would we permit him to monopolize the distribution of his works?

      On the other hand, we do want to reward creators of good art, music, and software. The way we reward people is by paying them cash. So shouldn't the author of any work get paid every time somebody uses/views/listens to it?

      OK! Let's tear the whole thing up.

      In the Bad Old Days, when we wrote code, we only hoped that somebody, someday, somewhere, would take a piece of it and use it again. We competed for prestige; there was no dream of endless royalties. Of course, we got salaries (or at least hourlies) for writing the stuff in the first place. It was all so custom that our employers never thought to make a buck reselling any of it.

      I'd like to see a return to this standard. Let's forget about charging money for ideas and their expressions. You can charge for printing a book, burning a disk, or sitting onstage and sawing away at a fiddle. You can't charge for the words, the bits, or the notes.

      Most people are motivated to create "intellectual property" by the hope of making money. Most people -- I dare say the same people -- are untalented hacks. Their words are leaden, their code buggy, their music mindless noise. Take away the profit incentive, and at least some of those authors will go away and become lawyers and MBAs.

      There will still be a great deal of bad art, but at least we won't be encouraging it by giving the creators money. Nor will we be keeping an army of leeches fat -- record execs and such. They will have to find something else to parasite, if there is no profit in Art.

      Talented people will always create; for them, creation is a compulsion, a furious drive, a tornado of the soul. For many artists -- artists in all disciplines -- good and bad -- art is life. Chain them in a dungeon and toss the key; they will scratch the mouldering bricks. There is no need to pay them.

      On the other hand, we'd rather not have starving artists. Too often, they die when they run out of food. Or they are unable to purchase simple materials of decent quality. (Many Old Masters used oils and varnishes of such poor quality that their paintings are now falling apart.)

      So, we see, we have to give these angelic fools a basic living, a decent dole, to keep their ribs from showing through, to keep their garrets heated through the winter. And since we refuse to allow the market to discriminate between bad and good Art, we have to give this to everybody.

      Whoops! See how a simple debate about copyright turns into Universal Socialism and Welfare? But if we don't pay the artists, then we have to give them the Basic Dole; and if we do that, we have to give it to anybody who asks for it -- many people fancy themselves artists.

      But there really is no good reason for anybody to work, who does not want to do so. The necessities of life can be created freely by the machines; such human labor as remains will be done anyway, by those who enjoy it. I say necessities -- food, clothing, shelter. (That last comes with a proviso, that while there is plenty of room on Earth, we're not making any more of it. But that's another st

  31. Great article, but... by kaltkalt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Zittrain proves to be yet another intelligent person who can't see past the "we must have copyright or there will be no creativity" fallacy. It's really a shame. Yes, even the founding fathers fucked up on that one, although they at least limited it to 14+14 years, which was acceptable. Had they really had foresight, they would have stuck "Congress shall make no law establishing a monopoly - temporary or permanent - on any creation, artistic or technical" in the First Amendment. Yes, no patents, no copyrights. People will still get off their asses and make stuff. We did it before the advent of intellectual "property" monopolies and we'd still do it once those monopolies are abolished. Bottom line: get rid of copyright (yes, all of it, erase Title 17) and people will still paint pictures, record music, make movies, books, television shows, and software. In fact, since the size of the public domain will increase a million-fold overnight, there will be a lot more to use in order to create such things. And jack valenti should be left asking "do you want fries with that?"

    --

    Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
    1. Re:Great article, but... by maroberts · · Score: 1

      I think you are taking the Slashdot populist line too far. Whilst I am normally against extension of copyright, I think some copyright and patents protection must be present, even if the actual duration should be much shorter than it is now.

      What you fail to realise is that without it, ideas would be spread much less rapidly and protected as trade and even national secrets. Even if someone has a patent on an idea, expression and widespread publication of that idea allows the possibility of someone seeing it and making improvements to it, or even producing an entirely defferent way of doing the same process.

      In my opinion, there has to be some quid pro quo for publishing an idea, and that is best expressed in providing the inventor/ writer a monopoly for a short duration. The fact that the duration is currently 70-95 years for copyrights and nearly 20 for patents is obscene; somewhere around 20 and 10 would probably give just as much incentive.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    2. Re:Great article, but... by kaltkalt · · Score: 1

      It can't be protected as a trade secret if you're selling it in the open. Trade secrets are ingredients, not the end-item itself. A britney spears song can't be a trade secret; whereas maybe her diet and exercise routine can be. As for "trade secrets" protecting what would otherwise be protected by patent... no, that won't work either. If the "secret" is actually a secret and you can prove i worked at your place and stole the secret (or broke in and stole it) then maybe there would be a claim. And that's assuming we keep "trade secrets" as a viable cause of action. Without any other form of IP, I don't see why there would be trade secrets. As for protecting a commercial "idea" via national secret... naw, not gonna happen. Again, you're not talking about protecting an idea, but the right to make and sell that idea. If it's out there, it's not secret. Not a national secret, not a trade secret, not any kind of secret.

      Thor the caveman didn't need to be promised a term monopoly in order to give him the incentive to invent the wheel. People solve problems. It's how our species works. And when we're not busy solving problems, we create things/express ideas. We don't need monopolies to get us to do that any more than we need monopolies to get us to fuck and spawn more children.

      --

      Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
    3. Re:Great article, but... by odin53 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Zittrain proves to be yet another intelligent person who can't see past the "we must have copyright or there will be no creativity" fallacy.

      Interestingly enough, it's not people like Zittrain that think this -- it's people like Jack Valenti and others who believe we need stronger copyright protection who believe this.

      People like Zittrain -- i.e., IP scholars -- believe that IP laws are here not to incentivize creativity, but to incentivize the *maximum amount of creativity versus the costs.* Everyone knows that "people will still get off their asses and make stuff" even if we don't have IP protection; I don't know of any IP scholars who would argue with that or who don't know that fact. The real question is whether we can have *more* people get off their asses and make stuff if we provide IP protection. It's about maximizing marginal benefit; i.e., providing enough IP protection such that the marginal benefit of the creation of more original work equals the marginal cost to society of stronger copyright protection. This is the prevailing view among law and econ types who are interested in IP law.

      It's people like Valenti, who think of copyrights or patents as "property", that believe we should have stronger IP protection -- tantamount to the law we have that protects tangible property. You're right that calling IP "property" is a bad thing, because it fails to remind people that IP protection is really a set of rights that can and should be changed as it becomes clearer what the proper marginal cost-marginal benefit balance is. But to get rid of IP protection altogether will certainly be a net loss to society.

      One good example is patents for drugs. Clearly we would have drug research even if we didn't have IP protection -- that's what universities are for. But not many pharmaceutical companies would be willing to put in the billions of dollars of research they do now if the resulting drug wouldn't be protected once they started production -- although probably some would. But would you rather have a few drugs be produced by a couple companies, or a lot of drugs produced by a lot of companies?

      You might think that contracts could replace IP law, but obviously that would be onerous. Indeed, IP law can be viewed as a more efficient proxy for exclusivity contracts. (Well, just like any body of law that involves the whole of society.)

      Hope the bar exam went well...

    4. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 3, Informative
      Everyone knows that "people will still get off their asses and make stuff" even if we don't have IP protection; ... The real question is whether we can have *more* people get off their asses and make stuff if we provide IP protection.
      The quantity of output does nothing to address the real need to which resources should be put. If you artificially force capital to move into certain areas, it will go there, but then that's no surprise, is it? The more important question is this: Will you get the results you need? A cure for cancer? What drug company has any incentive to create a *cure* for cancer. Isn't it a much better business model to just treat the symptoms? What you really want is a way to encourage the right kind of output, the needed output, not just blindly throw favours at some particular sector of the economy.

      There once existed a means to achieve needed intellectual goods, namely the University, but that institution is now a mere handmaiden to market interests. Of course, with the creative output of academia now hobbled by "market relevance" and special interest lobbies, no engine of intellectual freedom is left. So of course, public policy has to shift toward strengthened intellectual property law. Hence as universities weaken and academic freedom erodes, there is a corresponding rise in the breadth and venom of intellectual property protection.

      To cite one example, Richard Stallman created the Free Software Foundation as a reaction to the commercialization of academic research. Perhaps there would be no Free Software movement at all if our universities were as strong and free as they ought to be. Nor, of course would there be the current boundless monopolies in intellectual property that have moved in to fill the void left by the death of academia. The university has let its proper role in society be usurped by charlatans.

    5. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I agree that it needs to be completely wiped out, but for a slightly different reason.

      The "information owners" lobby is too powerful for incremental change to work in favour of public interest or good. Since the members of that group also control the public dialogue on such matters via their distribution channels, it becomes doubly difficult to press back gently.

      Moreover, current IP is a blunt instrument that lends itself to abuse because it deals with overly broad classes of material, with no provision for measuring merit. There's lots of noise generated, but not much signal.

      Is that really the best we can do? Who knows? No one is proposing alternatives because the airwaves are choked with received opinion and regurgitated pap courtesy of the knowguls (ya know, like moguls).

    6. Re:Great article, but... by odin53 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The more important question is this: Will you get the results you need? . . . What you really want is a way to encourage the right kind of output, the needed output, not just blindly throw favours at some particular sector of the economy.

      This is a perfectly valid question, but it's not one that has an easy answer. Your example of a cure for cancer is fine, but the question of "need" is much subtler. Who is to say what is "needed"? For drugs, it's somewhat easier -- of course we'd rather have a cure for cancer than a drug that combats cancer symptoms. But what about, say, music? What kind of music do we "need"? One might analogize and argue that the current IP system encourages "crap" like Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys, and depresses the distribution of "good" music produced on indie labels. This, it would seem, is bad -- I hear echoes of this argument a lot on /. But who's to say that Britney is "bad" and some indie band is "good"? It's certainly not the job of lawmakers to fashion laws that would reduce the production of Britneys and increase the production of indie bands. Their job is to increase the production of music. You may lament that there's too much Britney, but frankly, indie bands are still making music, are they not?

      The same goes for "useless" patents; say, patents for stuff you'd buy late at night on an infomercial. The point is to encourage ANY production (up to where the marginal benefit == marginal cost)-- the presumption is that ANY additional production (up to MB==MC) is good for society, notwithstanding people's tastes or better judgment. It's a good presumption, too -- I'm not willing pass judgment on what is "needed" and what's not, and I'm not willing to let anyone else decide it.

      Of course, with the creative output of academia now hobbled by "market relevance" and special interest lobbies, no engine of intellectual freedom is left.

      Do you really believe this? First, if you look at the work of any scholars in any discipline at all the universities of this world, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of the work is completely market irrelevant. Second, I don't think there was ever a time when universities produced work while not beholden to anyone. Patrons -- especially royalty, but more recently, simply rich people -- have always given money to academia for their special interests. Hundreds of years ago, this is the only thing that happened; universities didn't always have the enormous endowments they have now. Even if private interests weren't involved, the government was, not only the royalty I mentioned above, but like in the past 100 years, all kinds of government -- capitalist/democratic, socialist, communist. Today isn't much different than any time in our past, except now the universities themselves can sell the work.

    7. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 1
      I'm not willing pass judgment on what is "needed" and what's not, and I'm not willing to let anyone else decide it.


      You've lost the game in that case. The Good and the Right are everything when deciding how laws should or should not be made. People in positions of authority and power are *required* to make such decisions many times a day. By *not* being willing to decide such things you have already let someone else make the decision.

    8. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 1
      But what about, say, music? What kind of music do we "need"?

      We don't *need* a certain kind of music. We need music PERIOD. As long as there's some kind of music, the need is satisfied. When you're sick you need a certian type of treatment, but that's not the case for music. That's why it ought not to be protected by copyright at all.

      Music is much healthier when the creators are closer to the consumers, when the consumers are participants, as in a live performance. Music is healthier when it can be freely shared, as is the case in folk traditions. Shrink wrapped music takes musicians away from audiences, even though it may create audiences for musicians.

      There now exists many times more music than any person could listen to in a lifetime. To say that that is enough of a good thing is not to say that there are not good things created in every generation. But why do we keep adding fertilizer to our garden when it is already overgrown? The "More is always better" philosophy is a North American bias or pathology. More is *not* always better. Sometimes more is worse because it depletes or dilutes the Good.

    9. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 1
      It's certainly not the job of lawmakers to fashion laws that would reduce the production of Britneys and increase the production of indie bands. Their job is to increase the production of music.

      It is *not* the job of a lawmaker to increase the production of music. That's not even the job of record executives. It's nobody's job, and that's the way it ought to be. Even the poppiest of pop stars doesn't see it as their responsibility to increase the production of music. They do what they think is good and what seems to please their audiences. Unfortunately, they are insulated from their fans by the star-maker machinery. So it therefore falls to copyright law and market economics to decide what is good, rather than anyone who actually cares about music.

    10. Re:Great article, but... by odin53 · · Score: 1

      We don't *need* a certain kind of music. We need music PERIOD. As long as there's some kind of music, the need is satisfied. When you're sick you need a certian type of treatment, but that's not the case for music. That's why it ought not to be protected by copyright at all.

      We already have music. We would have music without IP law. My point is that it's always better to have MORE music. If there is a certain amount of additional music that may be produced because of IP protection, then that's great. I definitely don't follow the logic that "that's why it ought not to be protected by copyright at all."

      Music is much healthier when the creators are closer to the consumers, when the consumers are participants, as in a live performance. Music is healthier when it can be freely shared, as is the case in folk traditions. Shrink wrapped music takes musicians away from audiences, even though it may create audiences for musicians.

      I'm supposed to simply accept as fact that music is much healthier when all that you say happens?? Sorry. My definition of music may not even coincide with yours. My definition of health may be completely different. Your assertion seems very snotty to me.

      There now exists many times more music than any person could listen to in a lifetime. To say that that is enough of a good thing is not to say that there are not good things created in every generation. But why do we keep adding fertilizer to our garden when it is already overgrown? The "More is always better" philosophy is a North American bias or pathology. More is *not* always better. Sometimes more is worse because it depletes or dilutes the Good.

      This is just silly. What is the Good? Who decides what is the Good? What if the "more" music is Good too?

      Society shouldn't encourage "Good" or "Bad" music (or any other IP) creation -- just like it shouldn't encourage "Good" or "Bad" speech.

    11. Re:Great article, but... by odin53 · · Score: 1

      You've lost the game in that case. The Good and the Right are everything when deciding how laws should or should not be made. People in positions of authority and power are *required* to make such decisions many times a day. By *not* being willing to decide such things you have already let someone else make the decision.

      When it comes to intellectual, expressive creations, THERE IS NO GOOD AND RIGHT. Over my dead body will people in positions of authority and power decide what's good and right music, what's good and right literature, what's good and right stuff to invent. This is why IP law is set on incentivizing the creation of more work, and that's it. I want the lawmakers to only only think about the amount of extra creation, not the quality of the extra creation, and I want them to balance that against things like fair use, public domain, free speech and consumer prices. That's it. I will decide if I like the extra work that has been created. I may like it, I may not, but at least it's out there and I had the chance to try and decide.

    12. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 1
      Over my dead body will people in positions of authority and power decide what's good and right music

      They already do. Not just the religious right, but Clear Channel and Sony and RIAA for that matter, are all deciding what you should listen to. Furthermore, governmental organizations like the National Endowment for the Arts have been making value judgements like this for a long time. Are they controversial? Yes. Do they get their asses kicked sometimes? Sure. But they are not afraid to fund things that the market wouldn't support but that have artistic merit. Merit is usually judged the same way it is judged in science or law -- by a jury of peers.

      One could imagine (I'm not claiming this is the best or even a good idea) a sort of trial or jury procedure that a work must go through to be protected by copyright. It would be cumbersome, certainly, but people with ideas much better than mine are just being drowned out by the information monopolists who have so much to lose.

    13. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 1

      I should add that I am not talking about forbidding or restricting any kind of creative output at all, just being selective and careful about what to encourage and promote. Shouldn't we encourage what is good?

    14. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 1
      I definitely don't follow the logic that "that's why it ought not to be protected by copyright at all."

      Yes, you're right I think I might have confused myself a bit at the end of that sentence. It was late. What I probably meant to say is something like this:

      • In the case of drugs, public policy can be very focused and narrow in its objectives
      • A narrow and focused approach is better than a diffuse and unfocused approach
      • Since the encouragement of the production of music does not lend itself to the former kind of stewarding, it may be dangerously inefficient to try stewarding it at all
      Sorry if I was not clear.
    15. Re:Great article, but... by Sydney+Weidman · · Score: 1
      This is just silly. What is the Good? Who decides what is the Good?

      A jury of peers is capable of deciding the innocence or guilt of a person in a criminal trial. Why should they be any less capable of making judgements about aesthetic beauty? Sometimes the expression 'a jury of peers' can mean experts in the field, the way it does in academic science. You and I both decide for ourselves what is Good and Beautiful, but we also influence others and are influenced by them.

      To suggest an example, one might look at the way community standards have been used as a guide in obscenity rulings. As part of such rulings, judges must decide whether there is artistic merit in works being impugned. But they also try to determine and take into consideration the moral standards of the community in which the work is being presented. There is nothing terribly outrageous or authoritarian about these processes. They are entirely democratic.

      You are confusing judicious disapproval with thoughtless narrow mindedness. You needn't do so.

  32. Great comparison by pfleming · · Score: 1

    IAATP(I am a tax professional) and have seen (and heard)RMS speak on Copyright. I definately enjoyed the comparison to the tax code. With taxes it's usually the "exception to the exception" that trips people up.
    I like RMS' ideas regarding changes to copyright law as touched on in this article. While he may seem 'out there' to some, his idea about licensing software/code in two distinct parts was intriguing. License the engine or framework as some form of free code, the creative part as artistic. This way, you're not reinventing the wheel but can still benefit from your work.
    BTW- he also said a far shorter copyright should apply to text books as they are updated so frequently as well as software as its useful life is potentially shorter than that of a painting or fictional work.

  33. Re:PLEASE ACT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't need to pay for a bonsai kitten! They are easy to make at home!

  34. Copyright law is good. by chro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you want to trade music freely,
    trade free music, protected by a free
    license.

    That's all..

    All you complaining about not being able to share
    commercial documents, don't understand the value
    of work and the rules of business.

    NOW what you could do is to build campaign against
    the buying of commercial art. With competiting free art.

    This is the only reasonable path. The one adopted by the people of the free software.
    You can adopt it too and design free art,
    that can be freely shared.

    Now stop whining and act: buy, or design!
    --
    You shall not sell my precious intellectual property. And I mean it.

  35. Re:Too lazy to click? Read it here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me get back to you on that.

  36. good points.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "In the absence of tough copyright controls, investors may decide not to underwrite a $200 million blockbuster film because copying of the final product may unduly reduce their expected profit. But the cost of making no change at all must also be soberly assessed because the Internet offers such a staggering potential for the rapid transformation and evolution of ideas-a veritable Jazz Age of creation enabled by technology. "

    indeed. Copyright was created to encourage innovation, fair enough..
    Sadly, a great deal of the most hotly-disputed 'intellectual' property in these cases (films and hit records, above all) is at best derivative or, worse, utterly formulaic.
    I wonder how much money major studios pay out for remaking foreign-language films. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the gigantic values they attach to their own drivel in DMCA cases.
    Making a good film does not require 200 million dollars. Nor does making a good album. Consider how much of a big film's budget is spent on marketing it (tv adverts still aren't cheap..). Huge budgets can only do so much for a bad script, or bad actors. As a wise man once said, you cannot polish a turd. No matter how shiny, it remains a turd.

    Widespread enablement of individual and collective productivity has worked marvels in software (GNU/Linux/BSD's/etc). Hopefully it is only a matter of time before we start to see genuinely great works of cinema that have grown in a distributed way from a community of individuals sharing ideas and techniques, enabled by cheap technology. Animation might be a fertile ground for this sort of thing.

    It is possible that the discipline innate in coding helps to facilitate good project management even in groups separated by thousands of miles who seldom or never meet in person, and that this kind of project model might be less productive in an artistic context, but it would be interesting to see. I quite like the idea of open-source movies..

  37. What should be illegal... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Insightful
    What should be illegal is extending existing copyrights after they are issued. The copyright term in effect at the time of creation has served its purpose by the very fact that the work was created. While copyright terms might be reduced in the future, no copyright term should be allowed to be extended -- ever!

    This way Americans might feel the copyright system is more fair than many obviously feel it is now.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  38. BSA poisoning the minds of the children by rworne · · Score: 3, Funny

    At this website They have shockwave games for the kids to play!

    Help the weasel (how ironic!) protect the city from pirates and pirated software and prevent the deep freeze!

    The funniest point is that there is no goal to the game at all, you keep going until you lose. So you do your best to protect the city from pirated software and software pirates, but eventually, you will lose and the pirates take over.

    How true! To bad the BSA can't take their own advice!

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    1. Re:BSA poisoning the minds of the children by Have+Blue · · Score: 1

      That's a ferret, not a weasel.

    2. Re:BSA poisoning the minds of the children by rworne · · Score: 1

      Surprise!

      Ferrets are members of the weasel family:

      The family Mustelidae has been around for a very long time; it is probably the oldest extant (living) family in the Carnivora, which means there are lots of different subgroups within the major group. Weasels include weasels, mink, ferrets and polecats; martens include martens and fishers; skunks include all types of skunks; badgers include badgers and wolverine; and otters include sea and river otters. Sometimes martens are grouped within the badgers, usually with the weasels, and lately they are being kept separate.

      This is from the Ferret FAQ

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
  39. The Founding Fathers by Peaker · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Founding Fathers did not just come up with copyright as a "great idea" to increase innovation. They did so as a solution to some common problems of those days.

    The first problem was publishing of books. Few could afford to distribute information (publishers), and it was not worthwhile to publish a book, if all the competing publishers could just sell the same book as well.
    This is the well known problem, and not really relevant these days - when distribution of information is a non-issue.

    Another problem copyright solved is still relevant today. At the time, there was a profession of very hard and lengthy work - that of drawing maps. Map Makers worked for long periods of times to create accurate maps of many regions. Such boring and expensive tasks would only be done well for a promise of profit.

    What map makers did - was sign NDA's and sell their maps under them. This meant that the spread of information was limited, never went public and inspired no new works.

    Thus, copyright was created as a protected way to distribute information more openly. Its actually the openness and extra usability of copyrighted information that was so great at the time.

    These days, copyrights have deteriorated into laws that are almost as bad as NDA'd distribution of information for map-like (software) products, and much worse for every-day information (books, etc.)

    In summary, my point is that if you cancel copyright, the spread of information will be again limited by NDA's (you won't really outlaw those, will you?) rather than copyright. In the case of good copyright laws, this is much, much worse.

    1. Re:The Founding Fathers by kaltkalt · · Score: 0

      Well, first of all, the courts long ago threw out the "sweat of the brow" justification for copyright. I never bought it for a second. People are going to make maps (and aside from other planets, there's nothing left to map, anyway). Maps, more than anything, should be open source. Copyright shouldn't apply to information, anyway. A map is not an expression of an idea. A map is a compilation of facts (boundaries and distances). Maps deserve absolutely no protection whatsoever.

      The purpose of copyright is not to stimulate creativity or "sweat of the brow." The purpose is to guarantee profits. Nodobody, NOBODY, deserves guaranteed profits. Supply and demand create profits, not laws. If your product is valueless without a law, too bad. Give it away and find a new day job. Just because you make something doesn't mean you deserve a legally-created market for it. Copyright has become an entitlement nowadays. I made something, thus I *deserve* a monopoly on it for as long as possible (forever minus a day). No, you don't.

      Today, anyone can publish a book. Stick it online as a text file. Published. Copyright isn't here to protect authors. It's to protect the publishing industry. Just like how you don't see musicians suing downloaders. It's the recording industry that's doing it. These people don't create a damn fucking thing. In fact, their very existence hinders creativity. It's been proven time and again here that there will be much more creativity without copyright. The same goes for patents, too. In fact, patents are a crime against humanity as far as I'm concerned. "No, starving african peoples, you can't plant those seeds to feed yourselves unless you buy a license to plant them each year." "But we have no money, we have no food!" "Oh well, too bad. Looks like we'll have to (get our government to) burn your infringing crops."

      --

      Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
    2. Re:The Founding Fathers by Reziac · · Score: 1

      While reading the article, I had a thought along similar lines: what if there were no patents, but only trade secrets? Leaving aside the issue of corporate espionage and relevant security (both of which would doubtless escalate beyond measure) what would the effects be? Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that NDAs are worthless, being used only to weasel one's way into confidence for the purpose of stealing trade secrets.

      So, how do you think such a system would affect the world?

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  40. Nonsense! No amendment required by werdna · · Score: 2, Informative

    Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution is simply an enumeration of some of the powers granted to the Legislative Branch. In other words, it simply is a grant to the Congress of the power to pass a Copyright Act -- it does not require one. This is a point long-settled by the Supreme Court -- there is no right of an author, under the Constitution or otherwise, to any exclusive rights in Copyright, unless and until the Congress says so.

  41. Cookie by nuggz · · Score: 2

    Yes I think I do deserve a cookie.

    It isn't a twisted analysis.

    Group A provides a service, Group B wishes to provide another service. Group B must violate the copyright of Group A to do so.

    Either Group B should not be permitted to do this, or they should do so in a way that does not infringe on the IP of Group A.

    1. Re:Cookie by Alsee · · Score: 1

      It isn't a twisted analysis.

      I think you misunderstood my intent. I use the word "twisted" as a complement. The "obvious" way most people would read the situation is that the anti-plagerism service is the "good guy" and that the people buying/selling papers are the "bad guys". You twisted that interpretation on it's head with the "good guy" simply in business selling his work and the "bad guy" comitting copyright violation by destroying his business.

      I think it's important to defend the rights of the "bad guy". Whether it is the right of the KKK to hold a parade, the right of a criminal against illegal search and seizure, or the copyright of someone selling school essays.

      On the other hand I think existing copyright law has grown like a cancer. It is in desperate need of "surgery" to make it healthy again. Intellectual property is an oxymoron. Copyright can be a good thing, but it's never property.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  42. Also nonsense by werdna · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It did not create "intellectual property", a highly offensive misnomer, it created a temporary loan from the public domain, to which all ideas belong once expressed.

    Nonsense, the common law treated Copyright as intangible personal property since the adoption of the Statute of Anne, long before there was a United States or a United States Constitution. There are no significant differences between

    Perhaps copyright should simply be abolished. Yes, that would take an amendment, but overturning extentions would only take simple legislation. Too bad the greedy profiteers who oppose it own congress. We need to vote the bums out!

    Abolishment of Copyright clearly does not require an amendment to the Constitution -- nothing in the Constitution guarantees any author the right to the monopoly described in Article I, Section 8 -- the power to grant or deny Copyright is within the sound discretion of the Congress. An interesting question of whether the abolishment would constitute a "taking," however remains -- if the Congress took Disney's rights to its films, perhaps Disney would have rights under eminent domain to the value of the asset at the time of the taking.

    Such speculations are pointless, for this will never happen, and so we needn't really spend too much time counting Angels on the head of the pin.

    1. Re:Also nonsense by Sphere1952 · · Score: 1

      "An interesting question of whether the abolishment would constitute a "taking," however remains..."

      Copyright is completely statutory. What Congress giveth, Congress can taketh away.

      --
      Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
    2. Re:Also nonsense by werdna · · Score: 1

      I am no expert on these issues -- isn't there something bizarre in the corpus of "mere entitlements" that can be taken away without compensation, and "property interests" which cannot be? or vice versa?

  43. -1 redundant... by Thinkit3 · · Score: 1

    Well I'd give you that mod but I dont have mod points!

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
  44. RMS had nothing to do with this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I believe you misunderstand some of his positions.

  45. Let's do away with all property! by ex-songwriter · · Score: 1

    After all, physical property too, is an artificial construct. Why should you be allowed to own your house, for instance, or pass it on to your children? Or, if you have extra rooms, homeless people should be allowed to occupy them as needed. You aren't using them, so nothing is lost, right? Let's do away with the notion of property altogether. It is a pain for everyone who wants something for free.

    1. Re:Let's do away with all property! by kaltkalt · · Score: 1

      No, let's just watch out for slippery slopes so we don't fall and hurt ourselves. Society falls apart without property rights in physical things such as one's home and automobile and crops and land. Society can not only function without intellectual monopoly "property," but society will work a lot better without it. There will be more creativity, more ideas, and more open expression. You're just confused because the word "property" is used in both ideas. They do that to confuse people like you into supporting intellectual property. Because by gosh, if we don't have copyright or patent law, then we won't own our own homes/land/cars/etc. If we get rid of one form of "property" what's to stop them from getting rid of all other forms of "property!" Quick stick your money in your mattress and grab your shotgun. And wear a helmet, as those slopes can be dangerous.

      --

      Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
    2. Re:Let's do away with all property! by ex-songwriter · · Score: 1

      I'm not confused. Perhaps you are confused because you have never had an idea that had any value. I have. I like copyrights.

    3. Re:Let's do away with all property! by kaltkalt · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is you wouldn't have had any valuable ideas but for the existence of copyright?

      --

      Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
  46. "New ideas"? by Thinkit3 · · Score: 1

    But what is a "new idea"? You really mean new to a particular society or culture. No idea is ever totally new. Besides, how is the situation any different if something is totally copied and cited? Society still isn't getting a "new" idea. So what happens if you take a paper, and delete all citations. The information is the same ("new" or not), there's just less references to check. But is referencing important enough to be always required? At some point can you get beyond the point of having to prove yourself original and be able to integrate other's findings without obscessing over every citation?

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
    1. Re:"New ideas"? by SEWilco · · Score: 1
      a master's thesis is a formal research paper that
      • contributes to the body of research in technical and professional communication
      • demonstrates the depth of study expected from a master's-level student
      • is written in a lucid, readable style

      (Yeah, I plagiarized that :-)
      The "contributes to body of research/knowledge" definition is common.

      "No idea is ever totally new?" Somebody was first to think of it. Maybe the concept of the atom was influenced by earlier "absolute particle" ideas, but someone created those older ideas. There may be a lot of ideas which are similar to old ideas, but truly new ideas do still appear.

      You only have to prove yourself original to the Patent Office, then you can stop. The Patent Office only has to prove that someone did something with an application.

  47. Copyright law is NOT a "good thing" by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1
    Copyright law itself is not necessarily a "good thing". Copyright law is only a means intended to encourage people to create new works by giving them a way earn money from their works. The real "good thing" is promoting the arts and sciences. Nearly everyone, I think, feels that authors deserve compensation for their good works.

    Whether copyright law actually promotes art and science is debatable. Don't fool yourself into endorsing copyright when you really mean to endorse the notion of compensation for authors.

    How should authors be compensated, if not thru copyright? I don't know. Maybe someone here has some ideas? From the article: William Fisher of Harvard Law School ... suggests ... that ISPs remit to publishers a fee loosely based on the amount of copyrighted digital content that they are roughly calculated to be carrying, at which point people can trade music to their hearts' content.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    1. Re:Copyright law is NOT a "good thing" by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Copyright law itself is not necessarily a "good thing".

      I meant it in the same way you intend. Copyright law is a "good thing" when it actually accomplishes the goal it was intended to accomplish with an absolute minimum of other negative impact.

      Restricting copyright to civil suits seizing profits achieves the goal and negative consequences are nearly zero. Copyright duration should come way down too, though that problem becomes almost negligible if copyright is limited to commercial use.

      ISPs remit to publishers a fee loosely based on the amount of copyrighted digital content that they are roughly calculated to be carrying, at which point people can trade music to their hearts' content

      First of all the problem returns when when you leave the internet. People are increasingly carrying mobile devices, and those devices can spontaneously establish ad-hoc networks with anyone who walks within range.

      Secondly that is nothing but a tax. The money is taken from people whether they download music or not and it is granted to governtment selected recipients. If you are going to do that then there's no reason to restrict it to the internet - you may as well abolish ALL copyright and fund all creation of copyright material through taxes and government grants. I hope you realize how bad that would be.

      The entire argument is based on the premise that the copyright holder has some entitlement to receive a profit when no profit has been made.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  48. Back to the Original Idea by MacWiz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From the majority of posts here, everyone seems to have forgotten that copyright laws were designed to protect the authors and creators NOT the "copyright owners" or (the new oxymoron for the 21st century) "intellectual property owners."

    All of the squealing on behalf of the poor creators and authors and how file sharing is hurting them is misguided drivel. If it's available on the commercial market, the author has already sold their right to the work.

    The copyright should end once the author has lost control of the work -- as in virtually every recording contract existing today.

    The laws were designed to protect the authors -- not the publishers. The RIAA is the publishers. The software companies are the publishers. None of the creators owns their rights any longer.

    Therefore, most of this discussion is so far off base that it is all irrelevant.

    I know, this will get a flamebait modifier, but I don't care. Copyright has been twisted so severely that even those who are staunchly defending it are still arguing against the basic principle upon which the copyright laws were founded.

    All the legal antics miss the real point. It's the authors, dammit. In today's system, they get screwed, regardless.

  49. Mod Parent Up! by rollingcalf · · Score: 1

    Excellent point. The construction workers who built the place you live in won't continue to get paid for it as you live in the house for the next 50 years, even if they become destitute. What is so special about people who create almost completely NON-ESSENTIAL goods like novels and music that they should continue to get paid for life while the producers of life-saving goods like food, houses and cars don't?

    --
    ---------
    There is inferior bacteria on the interior of your posterior.
  50. You do that, and I'll... by MickLinux · · Score: 1

    ... start writing and registering so many pointless little programs, to get your tax money, that artists and programmers will never eat again.

    They won't be able to sell their work, because people will point to the "tax", and refuse to pay -- even though it's good.

    Or if I don't break the system, somebody will. That system is so messed up that it could not fly.

    The solution is not to standardize what is broken; the solution is to get rid of broken IP laws (to use the offensive term).

    Copyright: Broken. Violates natural right of work. Also violates natural law's definition of property.

    Patent: Broken. Viiolates natural law's definition of property.

    Derivative works: Broken. Violates natural right to think.

    Shrink wrap license: Broken. Violates definition of a contract.

    Contract law itself: Broken. Assigns life as a transferable property. However, if you had a registered database of who maintained their contracts and who broke what, that would be okay.
    Essentially, when a contract is signed, it is registered. When it is concluded to the mutual satisfaction of both parties, it is registered as "completed". Percent completed gives you an idea of how honorable a company or person is.

    Trade Name: Not broken, as far as I can see.

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  51. Okay, here's how. by MickLinux · · Score: 1

    (1) take warm turd from toilet.

    (2) Put warm turd on hard surface (like plate)

    (3) Put turd in walk-in freezer

    (4) Get cloth and shoe polish

    (5) Put cloth in freezer

    (6) When frozen, take cloth out, apply a small amount of shoe polish to cloth. Blacken. Repeat step 6 until turd is completely covered with shoe polish.

    (7) Explain to restaurant manager and Dept. of Health official the philosophical implications of your experiment, and the importance that it will have for PHBs all over the business world.

    (8) Give polished turd a French*** name

    (9) Invite PHBs to a banquet and conference.

    (10) With your huge profits from so many contracts from PHBs, purchase much-needed changes in the law regarding Dept. of Health's regulations, so as to protect the polished-turd industry.

    Just thought you might like to know...

    *** Please note that this will only work in America. In France, you need to give it a British name. In Britain, you need to make it sound like a German beer. In Germany, the idea just won't fly, except for export.

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  52. Moderators: Mod parent down by MickLinux · · Score: 1

    After posting this, I decided that this one just wasn't good. Someone mod this one out of sight.

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  53. legally? by Thinkit3 · · Score: 1

    No, that's just another form of copyright. Legally you can't copyright it because there is prior art. Plaigarism is not a law anywhere, it's just a policy of schools.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
  54. first to think about it? by Thinkit3 · · Score: 1

    What about people on islands? What about long dead civilizations? What about other planets? How can you know you were the first to ever think of it? I'm saying that no idea, ever, is new. Nobody can ever create an idea because they exist outside of time.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
    1. Re:first to think about it? by SEWilco · · Score: 1
      Reality exists whether it is known or not.

      Ideas require someone to have thought of them, they do not exist before they are created. There must have been a distinct time of creation of each idea.

      Do you really believe that the idea that you are a burning blue bag of marbles leaking on a keyboard has always existed?

  55. A Waste Of Time (So Why Am I Posting This?) by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    Government is not run for your benefit (or the benefit of anyone else but the governors and those that pay them).

    The laws are bad, they will stay bad, they will in fact get worse, and if you aren't prepared to pick up a gun (or a nuke), don't even bother trying to convince me you want to do something because nothing you do will make the slightest bit of difference.

    Next year the North Koreans will pop a nuke off on US soil for the first time in history, courtesy of your government. Think about that one for a while. Sort of makes copyright law a non-issue, right?

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  56. good propaganda. by twitter · · Score: 1
    The funniest point is that there is no goal to the game at all, you keep going until you lose. So you do your best to protect the city from pirated software and software pirates, but eventually, you will lose and the pirates take over.

    Perfect propaganda! It instills the idea that the world is unfair for the BSA and other hard working weasels. Later, they can call on this mindless memory to say something like, "the game is unfair and must be changed." You expect them to make a game where the "good guys" win?

    The story of big publishers is never over, because there is always more they can screw everyone. Perpetual copyright, pay per play, and strict control on all potntial press is what they desire. This would maximise their power. It's as unamerican as the end of free press, but that's what they worked broadcast into and what they want to work the net into. They have grown used to their broadcast monopoly and all their other earnings rely on it.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.