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Star Wars Galaxies - No Crushbone Factor?

Posted by simoniker on from the jabber-about-jabba dept.

Tark writes "Over at Warcry.com, there's a new column from Warthog discussing his post-launch impressions of the PC MMORPG Star Wars Galaxies, a month after official release date." This opinion piece is from the writer whose entertaining review we featured just after game launch, and it's interesting to see how his opinions have changed over time - he still says SWG lacks the "Crushbone Factor", referencing a particular area of Everquest which "..had quests... unique monsters... cool, level appropriate loot drops... [and] personality."

82 comments

  1. Talk about hitting the nail on the head by sweetooth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As much as I want to like SWG, it's becoming very very hard to. The game is simply boring. PvP which should be the driving factor is boring, and in some cases broken. Missions are all the same. If you change planets you just change which creatures you fight, but the battles are all the same. Dungeons and quests? What dungeons and quests. Not only were the dungeons and quests so few and far between to be almost non existant half of them were broken up until this weekend. SOE says sorry if you did these quests and got nothing, they are fixed now, but those of you that did them once can't do them over again to get the reward you should have gotten the first time around.

    While this all adds up to a bad experience I think the most telling factor is this. The most commonly heard question I've been seeing in game and on message boards is. When does World of Warcraft come out?

    1. Re:Talk about hitting the nail on the head by duffbeer703 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You should have listened to the dozens of beta testers who posted here and said it was a boring bug-ridden POS.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    2. Re:Talk about hitting the nail on the head by Naikrovek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      pvp sucks.

      if you want to pvp, play quake.

      SWG is a community game, and in order for you to enjoy the game, you must actually take part of communities, and do things together. trust me, its far funner. there are VERY few pvp things to do in SWG unless you want to play on a battlefield. sure you can knock the guts out of someone easy in the cantina but what fun is that? none. that's why you're not having any fun.

      the fact that everyone always waits for the next game to come out tells me that no one is happy with any current game. lets not even get into the fact that you take what is said on forums as the pulse of the entire community - which it simply isn't.

      the true test of a game is its replayability. if you're constantly eyes on the horizon for the next game you can never really, truly enjoy the one you're playing. I still play Quakeworld and I still love it. I don't give a crap what's on the horizon, i play what is fun. SWG is fun. don't like it, then don't play it. i'm quite sick of the arsewipes that introduce themselves to me by sending a duel request.

      PVP in SWG was an afterthought. I wish it was totally skipped. PvP ruins the game for me, so thank God i haven't taken a side in the "epic conflict" yet.

    3. Re:Talk about hitting the nail on the head by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      pvp sucks.

      Your opinion and not worth a whole lot.

      if you want to pvp, play quake.

      Troll


      SWG is a community game, and in order for you to enjoy the game, you must actually take part of communities, and do things together. trust me, its far funner. there are VERY few pvp things to do in SWG unless you want to play on a battlefield. sure you can knock the guts out of someone easy in the cantina but what fun is that? none. that's why you're not having any fun.

      I don't personally care much for PvP. However, this is a game where we are deciding the outcome of control of the galaxy that implies that PvP WILL play a large part in the game like it or not. I'm not having any fun because there is no content for myself and those I associate with on a regular basis to do. Standing around clicking through crafting stations over and over and over again, or killing the same creatures over and over and over again. Is not my idea of a good time.

      the fact that everyone always waits for the next game to come out tells me that no one is happy with any current game. lets not even get into the fact that you take what is said on forums as the pulse of the entire community - which it simply isn't.

      I never said that it was the pulse of the entire community. I said it was a bad sign. I said that this type of issue is constantly broached and the game has only been released for a little more than a month. That is a bad sign.

      the true test of a game is its replayability. if you're constantly eyes on the horizon for the next game you can never really, truly enjoy the one you're playing. I still play Quakeworld and I still love it. I don't give a crap what's on the horizon, i play what is fun. SWG is fun. don't like it, then don't play it. i'm quite sick of the arsewipes that introduce themselves to me by sending a duel request.

      If you've run out of stuff to do in less than a month then there are serious replayability issues. If people are already asking about how long SOE keeps characters on cancelled accounts there are serious replayablitly issue. You are ranting about playing whats fun. Many people are trying SWG and hoping that will be fun and see potential in the game, but are currently running out of fun things to do. The people that constantly want to duel you are the same people that irritate me. These are the same people that run around destroying everything they come across regardless of the fact that someone else had to run into town fight the lag to a mission terminal and select the mission n the first place. Then if you are fortunate enough to show up when somone is in the act of destroying your mission target they just tell you to piss off. That again is not my idea of fun, and happens more often than not. If that is the type of player that SWG is attracting I doubt I'm the only one not having fun

      PVP in SWG was an afterthought. I wish it was totally skipped. PvP ruins the game for me, so thank God i haven't taken a side in the "epic conflict" yet.

      PvP wasn't an afterthought. The point of the game is to decide who controls the galaxy, the Imperials or the Rebels. Maybe you haven't read much star wars fiction of seen the movies, but there is a lot of fighting between those groups. That is what the devs are trying to emulate. Hence the comments about armor. You didn't see much of it in the movies don't expect to see much of it in the games. So far the armor sucks. They didn't want to put in melee but there are references to it in some books and players asked for it so it's there. This says to me again this is a game about world building and conflict. It also sounds to me like you are looking to play the sims in space. Most people aren't looking for that type of game apparently or the sims online would be doing better than it is.

    4. Re:Talk about hitting the nail on the head by steppencat · · Score: 1

      Personally, I like the game. However, I also agree with Warthog. The game needs to strike a balance between the organic "world" that it has created, and one that's guided by the developers. However, is it me or is Warthog an incredibly lousy writer? Sorry, I'm picky.

    5. Re:Talk about hitting the nail on the head by Alereon · · Score: 1

      Actually, I thought Warthog's article was some of the best writing I've seen in a long time.

    6. Re:Talk about hitting the nail on the head by darylp · · Score: 1

      Well, if you loiter round Slashdot long enough, you'll find even the most poorly scrawled Viagra spam to be better writing.

    7. Re:Talk about hitting the nail on the head by achacha · · Score: 1

      SWG seems like the designers took the worst features of both Anarchy Online and Dark Ages Of Camelot and put them together with a nice tradeskill system. The quests are boring and dungeons have no presonality (just like AO). The PvP and combat system is unexciting (just like DAoC). You would think that a company that gave us a refined (albeit aging) game like Everquest would produce something with character, but alas they like the last 2 Star Wars films have failed.

      Personally I have never felt that Star Wars license had much to offer, it was part of a compelling saga and 3 great films (the first 3). But there was a serious lack of depth to the official star wars line (most of the depth was in fan fiction). With very little depth and paltry content, I am not surprised that people got so bored.

      If SOE took star trek they may have had the same problem, had they taken star trek and all the fiction that was published they would have had enough lore to keep even the hard core fans busy.

      What made EQ and its "lore" interesting was that there was a very open ended story and there was a serious attempt at developing an environment based on the story. Crushbone orcs with they alliance with dark elves and war with wood/high elves was seen not only in crushbone but in several cities. The conflict between dragons and iksar in the Kunark release provided enough to build up several dungeons (city of mist, old sebilis, karnor's castle, veeshan's peak) they all had a story line that was consistent. And on and on.

      This is where a lot of MMORPGs fail, they do not create a tying storyline and very little consistency. Star Wars could have been a lot more if they dared to take the lore that existed and built upon it a lot not just a little. But that may have violated the contacts of the license, got hardcore fanatics angry or may have required a lot of work that may not be directly tied to ROI.

      Alas, as long as financial/marketing people keep making decisions, the consumers will be at a loss.

  2. The Holy Grail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "SOE says sorry if you did these quests and got nothing, they are fixed now"

    Those poor knights who wasted all those years hunting for the damn grail. If only SOE had been there at the end to "reset" things.

    1. Re:The Holy Grail by sweetooth · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hardly the same thing.

      C3PO says, "Your reward has been placed in your backpack."

      You look in your backpack... there isn't anything there. You check your faction standing. It hasn't budged. You check your bank account. No new deposits.

      You tell C3PO, "You lying rust bucket screw you rebels I'm going to tell the Emporer where your secret rebel base is!"

    2. Re:The Holy Grail by Naikrovek · · Score: 1, Troll

      you have to have a rebel backpack (your regular inventory doesn't count) and 1500 faction points before you get your reward. or so i've heard. I've also heard that they've taken out that message if you can't get the reward or there is no reward to give.

      first you guys bitch about how its not out yet and to "release it already"

      then you complain about its level of completeness when it is finally released. when does the madness end?

    3. Re:The Holy Grail by sweetooth · · Score: 3, Interesting

      you have to have a rebel backpack (your regular inventory doesn't count) and 1500 faction points before you get your reward. or so i've heard. I've also heard that they've taken out that message if you can't get the reward or there is no reward to give.

      If you can't get the reward you shouldn't be able to do the quest. Also the first missions are simply run here run back missions so there is no reason to limit who can do them and who can't. The message has been changed so that you don't see "Your reward has been placed in your backpack." when the only reward would be faction points and credits. The problem is that you didn't even get the faction points or credits.

      first you guys bitch about how its not out yet and to "release it already"

      This is completly out of context. I would never bitch about releasing it already. I jumped all over the funcom people for the state of Anarchy Online. I'm constantly griping about companies releasing games or other software that isn't finished and expecting people to live with it, and I'm always griping about people not telling these companies to go to hell. I cancelled my AO account when they started billing because the game still wasn't done. I just got billed the first time for Star Wars, and that is the primary reason I'm upset about the lack of content. They are telling me that the game is done, and that I need to be paying to play it. I don't think there is enough content and if at the end of the month it is the same way they can not count on my $15.

      then you complain about its level of completeness when it is finally released. when does the madness end?

      I agree there are people that fall into this category, but I would much rather wait an extra six months or a year to play a game if that means it will be done when it comes out. Since SWG is obviously lacking and it was sold to me as a finished product I have every right to be upset and bitch about it.

  3. MUD by magsymp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why doesn't everyone just play MUDs? IMO They we're so much better. I curse our new graphical overlords!!! On the other hand, maybe with time they will become as good as MUDs. mud.arcadia.org 4000 (ahh, the memories.)

  4. Told you so 8) by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

    you're not missing much (Score:2)
    http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?s id=70196&ci d=6385472

    game was dull

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  5. Re:What about the dupe factor? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

    It's not a dupe. This is a followup to warthogs first article talking about how things really haven't gotten better since the game first came out. Which you might know if you had actually read either of the articles. This article proclaims SWG dead in six months if things don't change.

  6. Even worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Dingo tells Galahad that his vision of the Grail was nothing more than Zoot shining
    a grail-shaped beacon above the castle in an effort to lure him in."

  7. KOTOR by mrpuffypants · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who needs SWG when I've got KOTOR? It's a lot more fun, has great voice acting and story, and won't cost me $10+/month.

    1. Re:KOTOR by Puckett · · Score: 1

      I've played KOTOR for around an hour so far, and I'm not too impressed with the gameplay. I really don't like the battle sequences either. I kind of feel like I don't have much control in battles.

      --
      A good timewaster
    2. Re:KOTOR by DeionXxX · · Score: 1

      Maybe because you've only played for an hour... I've played 4 hours the other day and its a bit boring because you don't have any neat weapons or abilities. You don't have party members to control etc.

      -- Alex

    3. Re:KOTOR by CheeseMonkey · · Score: 1

      Fully agree! Best Star Wars game ever. It certainly addresses all of the complaints in the review (since it's, you know, a real game and not MO, it's all about the content.)

      And, yes, you do get party members to control, despite what the poster below says.

      I've played the game for about 12 hours now, and I'm looking very much forward to the next 50 or so I'm sure I'll put into it. I don't have to deal with idiot duelists, spamming l33t speakers, down servers, or monthly fees. If only they could churn out games of this quality as fast as I can play them...

      Not to sound harsh on Galaxies- if there was no monthly fee and it was a console game (yeah, I know i'm dreaming) I'd be all over it. I played it a bit, it seems incredibly cool, but it's just not worth paying a monthly fee when I can enjoy my couch and my big-ass TV and a much more entertaining (IMO) game for a flat fee.

      --
      Nothing to see here.
    4. Re:KOTOR by pozitron969 · · Score: 1

      I finished this game last night(46hr 32min total time to play) and it definately gets better the further you play. If you are feeling like you are not in control of the action or it is slow look into the queueing of actions. (Done by pressing X instead of A when choosing an action) which allows you to string multiple actions together. I found this out while fighting the last battle in the game(Doh!) and it will definately be a help when I play it again as a Dark Jedi. Enjoy!

    5. Re:KOTOR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You only have limited control in battles. Its a d20 game so that means its the D&D rules under there. You choose ATTACK, dice are rolled, then the results play out on screen via animations. If that's not what you signed up for, then I'm sorry, you got [persuaded]into something you don't understand. Yes, for the first hour its mostly blasters. You are a low level character, what do you want? Force lightning out of the box? This is only tangental to the topic, but I don't want to see FUD spread about a fun game.

  8. Re:What about the dupe factor? by CableModemSniper · · Score: 1

    I read both, they link to the exact same page. Go ahead click the link in the slashdot article I linked to and the link in this article. Notice anything exactly the same?

    --
    Why not fork?
  9. Best Quote of the Article... by LordYUK · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Shortly after posting this article, I realized something that had somehow gotten past me about the last update by SOE, just two days ago. SOE in their wisdom decided that they needed to slow down the respawn rate of some static spawns, because people were "camping" them. Camping is, apparently, a bad thing. (Does it matter that most players want lots of spawn points to camp? One must wonder...).

    I went to one of the very few locations with some content today (the Tusken Fortress), and hunted for a while. The tuskens located there spawn much, much more slowly now. There is less to hunt, basically. It was frustrating.

    That's right, folks. SOE took a game with little content and, by reducing the spawn rate of static spawns, actually reduced the amount of content, hunting, and other things to do.

    Pure genius."

    oh god... I was in Beta 3... (actually, I was BANNED from beta 3 near the end because I was a little miffed when medics got the shaft, and suggested that if marksmen had to go through the same crap to shoot as medics were forced to in order to heal, people would tell SoE to shove the game up their ass... or perhaps it was Holocrons (Raph Kosters) post about "how they had decided to drop vehicles at launch in order to focus on 'content'" and my subsequent posting of a WoW screenshot showing players on horses... who can say?)

    Regardless, the games "content" has been 0 since the day I got the beta, and it seems like it hasnt gotten any better. Sad really, THIS is that SW MMORPG we get. There wont be another one 6 months from now (like, AC and EQ are both fantasy MMORPGs, so there IS "choice")...

    oh well, WoW will be out in a year or so...

    --
    This is my sig. Its pathetic.
    1. Re:Best Quote of the Article... by Winterblink · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I agree with most of what you're saying, I had to laugh when you got the part about how, before SWG's release when they pulled vehicles you show a screenshot of WoW, before its release with players on horses. You have no idea whether those horses will still be there when WoW launches, nor do you have any idea how much WoW might change for the worse. The game's not even in beta yet.

      --
      "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
      -Hoban Washburn
    2. Re:Best Quote of the Article... by LordYUK · · Score: 1

      thats not the point... the POINT is that they claim to have taken people OFF of "vehicle duty" and onto "content duty"...

      There. Is. No. Content.

      --
      This is my sig. Its pathetic.
    3. Re:Best Quote of the Article... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 4, Funny
      "Regardless, the games "content" has been 0 since the day I got the beta, and it seems like it hasnt gotten any better. Sad really, THIS is that SW MMORPG we get. "

      Is it just me, or does that seem to be the general feeling of ANYTHING that has been associated with George Lucas lately? No content for more money than everything else in the same category.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    4. Re:Best Quote of the Article... by Geckoman · · Score: 2, Funny

      Imagine the condition vehicles must be in!

    5. Re:Best Quote of the Article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats really strange cause about 20 people I know from EQ and AO all are playing SWG non stop now. We must be playing a different game then you guys or something. Oh and I've been playing this game since Beta 2, and its light years ahead of anything that was in beta.

  10. Content is expensive by Psychochild · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem is that content is expensive. The hand-crafted feel of EQ's zones (and the game I work on, Meridian 59) take a long time to create. It takes specialized people with a good eye to create those cool level, to write up the quests, to create the cool items that drop off the monsters.

    SWG had to go toward randomly-generated content in the world because they simply could not generate all the needed content by hand. Especially with more modern players expecting a wealth of new content at launch and on a regular basis. New games have to compete with EQ's content, which has been added to over the years.

    In the end, content is expensive. Generating some of the content randomly helps create more content that doesn't feel repetitive, but it loses a bit of soul in the process.

    My view on things,

    --
    Brian "Psychochild" Green
    MMO developer's blog
    1. Re:Content is expensive by Chaotician · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding me!? SWG has the highest subscription cost of an MMOG out there. Couple those fee's with the MASSIVE amounts of cash that both Sony and LucasArts have hiding in their banks and your argument becomes moot. There may be excuses for a lack of content, but cost is not one of them.

    2. Re:Content is expensive by sweetooth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      SOE could complain about the costs of content if they weren't gouging month to month subscribers for $15. As far as I know this is the highest priced subscription so far. Of course I could be wrong. It is the most expensive I've played.

    3. Re:Content is expensive by analog_line · · Score: 1

      If there's a game that should have had enough budget for it, it's Star Wars Galaxies. Literally the single most anticipated MMORPG ever If Mythic can do it on a far more masice scale with Dark Age of Camelot, with far less budget than Sony Online Entertainment and LucasArts had (I REFUSE to believe that SOE and LucasArts didn't have the cash to throw at this) then that says more than a few things about how useless LucasArts and SOE are.

    4. Re:Content is expensive by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 2, Interesting
      " The problem is that content is expensive."

      Really? I would beg to differ. You see, I have played numerous free MUDs, a handful of free graphical MMORPGs, and currently play on an awesome UO shard called Darkenwood. Free gameplay, and unbelievable content. The people who run Darkenwood have added whole new mechanisms to the game. What about NWN? Content is not as expensive as you think it is. Nor is maintaining it said content. The real expense is in managing large numbers of players. But then explain how every other MMORPG that SWG competes with has better content and more players.....AT BETA.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    5. Re:Content is expensive by demi · · Score: 1

      So the MUD model is pretty good, right? And a lot of what made that work was delegating building tasks to the Wizards, and from them to some other experienced players (I remember spending weeks doing MUSH code for Dune MUSH). So how about bringing player-generated content to SW:G or the other MMORPGs? It sounds like SW:G creates a market for goods and services; make a market for content and throw some bennies to the builders with popular regions.

      Because as it stands, yeah, it sounds like I'd much rather play a good MUD than any of these.

      --
      demi
    6. Re:Content is expensive by Naikrovek · · Score: 1

      don't like it, don't pay it. right now there are people willing to pay (me included) so it looks like soon everyone will be.

      I'm okay with it, but it would be nicer if they gave the software away for free also.

    7. Re:Content is expensive by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      don't like it, don't pay it. right now there are people willing to pay (me included) so it looks like soon everyone will be.

      I was billed for my first month a couple days ago as I'm sure most people were. This is thier final month to fix things. If there is nothing to do at the end of the month they will get no further funds from me. Unlike so many people I won't stick around if it isn't fun for me. However, while I am a paying customer of a supposedly finished product with monthly updates I feel I have every right to bitch if the game doesn't live up to what it was sold as.

      I'm okay with it, but it would be nicer if they gave the software away for free also.

      This is a common complaint. I see both sides of the issue. I personally don't mind paying the money up front if the game is actually finished. If it isn't it certainly shouldn't be available on the shelf of my local store. Also, since I've just paid $80 for the collecters edition and $15 dollars for the first month I think I have every right to expect the game to be done and for there to be additional content.

    8. Re:Content is expensive by GodHead · · Score: 1

      Oh bullshit. They "can't" do it? You actually claim that one of the most popular franchises ever has no content worth converting into the game? No locations/stories/battlesites or noteable NPCs? There's were no movies/books/games/concept drawings that could be used?

      The content was already there. The reason none of it was in game is that there was a business or design decision not to use it.

      --
      Just wait till some crappy band steals your nic.
    9. Re:Content is expensive by Psychochild · · Score: 2, Informative

      Content is expensive in terms of time as well as money. The amount of content required to fill all the planets they had for launch would have taken a very long time to do by hand. Hiring a thousand level editors (I'm probably being too conservative in that figure) to do it all by hand in the required amount of time wasn't feasible from a money or a management point of view.

      And, $15 per month is hardly "gouging". Consider that you couldn't even see 2 movies in the theater for that price. Anyway, there are plenty of other games out there that charge less per month if it's that terrible on your pocketbook.

      There are a lot of accusations that can rightfully be brought against Sony and Lucas about SWG, but these two aren't even close.

      I fully encourage you to check out other online RPGs if SWG isn't your style. There's lots of them out there that cater to a variety of play styles.

      My thoughts,

      --
      Brian "Psychochild" Green
      MMO developer's blog
    10. Re:Content is expensive by Psychochild · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just because people are willing to give something away for free doesn't mean it's not expensive. Quite a few people that read Slashdot make quite good money working on software during the day then give away their programming ability to quality Open Source projects at night. Just because I can go download GCC for free doesn't mean programmers shouldn't be paid well for their expertise.

      I should have also stated that quality content is expensive. Sturgeon's law and all that. Especially since I have the audacity to expect to be able to make a living running a game, people aren't going to be falling over themselves to give me content for free in most cases. (I know this isn't strictly true, but I can't rely on people's generosity forever in a commercial game.)

      So, while there is a lot of quality content out there in text MUDs (I provided a little bit to some MUDs when I was in college), you can't rely on that in the commercial world. Content is expensive in this situation.

      I run a commercial graphical game, so I have some experience with this issue. (Meridian 59, the URL is just under my username.)

      My experiences,

      --
      Brian "Psychochild" Green
      MMO developer's blog
  11. Another person looking for Everquest Clone #7889 by Crockerboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Dead? Hardly. Warthog's main beef is that it isn't everquest. And he's an idiot. Many, many of us do not want everquest. We do not want ph4t l3wt drops off mobs. We don't want to camp Crushbone for weeks till we can ding so we can go camp crocs in Oasis until we ding again. Everquest was designed as a game, SWG was designed as a world. I'm sick and tired of seeing all the little pellet chasers that Everquest brought to the genre trying to turn every game into the next everquest. The fact I can log in, play at my leisure and log out whenever I feel like it and not feel guilty about "only putting 6 hours in today" is great. I can play one or two hours a day and still make progress with some of my online friends. SWG was made for people who have outside lives and are more socially adapt than a paperclip. I like it that way...Don't turn it into another Everquest pandering to the catasses who play 70 hours a week.

    You want Everquest? Go play Everquest and stop trying to turn every other game into a Everquest clone.

  12. Re:Another person looking for Everquest Clone #788 by LordYUK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In a product designed to amuse me, I shouldnt have to go looking for fun.

    --
    This is my sig. Its pathetic.
  13. Re:What about the dupe factor? by sweetooth · · Score: 2, Informative

    Notice the titles. The link is the same because the current article is always at that link. The title of the previous article was "Warrior, Brawler, Hairdresser". The current article is titled "Beware the Dancing Kung Fu Lizardman!". If you scroll to the bottom of the current editorial you will see a link to the previous article which is now archived at the following url http://swg.warcry.com/scripts/columns/view_columns .phtml?site=13&id=579
    You should also notice from the slashdot summary of the previous article that it mentions the previous title. If you actually read the linked article today you would see that the titles are differant.

    It is NOT a dupe.

  14. Re:What about the dupe factor? by simoniker · · Score: 1

    Ah, I've got it now. What happened is that Warcry, for some not-so-smart reason, always use the same URL for the latest version of Warthog's column. So the previous Slashdot article now links there too, even though there are two different articles.

    I've now fixed the URL in this story, so it at least points to the original review, which now has an different, archived URL on the Warcry site. How confusing.

  15. That sounds fantastic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One of your criticisms (as I took it) of the game sounds like a real strength to me. I had always envisioned EVERYONE trying to be Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, or Boba Fett. If everyone tried to be, I would think the game would be horribly boring.
    If >50% of the people lead virtual lives that are NOT heroic, that means that BEING heroic actually puts you in the minority. That is, most certainly, how it should be.

  16. We use Everquest as a benchmark now? by mojotooth · · Score: 5, Funny

    the "Crushbone Factor", referencing a particular area of Everquest

    Great. We refer to part of Everquest to measure how good a game is?

    That's like complimenting a game by saying it has the "root canal" factor.

    --
    -- Mojo Tooth : exploring our world as only an idiot can.
    1. Re:We use Everquest as a benchmark now? by d3kk · · Score: 1
      While I didn't necessarily like the gameplay of Everquest after realizing I wasted two years on it, I think his "Crushbone Factor" makes a lot of sense. I remember when I was toying around with different classes and races in Everquest. The low-level gameplay may have been relatively boring, but having so many areas with actual story and interesting monsters to fight made it worthwhile.

      I haven't played Galaxies, but I can't imagine enjoying myself if his portrayal of "dungeons" are accurate. It's fun adventuring deep into an area and finding stronger, bigger monsters with cooler items. Worrying about turning a corner and seeing a horde of monsters that are ten levels higher than you makes the game interesting. If the entire dungeon was the same monsters and items, it makes things boring.

  17. Re:What about the dupe factor? by CableModemSniper · · Score: 1

    The really weird thing is I remember reading this article. (The one in this story). I guess I didn't see it on slashdot? Or I'm slowly going insane. Must stop hitting refresh.

    --
    Why not fork?
  18. Re:What about the dupe factor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yea its how we handle columns on the site, so everyone can check out the latest regular column and only have to bookmark one page. The rest appear at the bottom with the revelant links.
    Sorry for any confusion.
    Tark

  19. Re:Another person looking for Everquest Clone #788 by sweetooth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Progress? What progress?

    You spend an hour or two a day in game so you can make a new coffee table. I spend an hour or two a day in game fighting the same old garbage so I can have enough money to purchase your coffee table. Eventually I'm going to get tired of the boring and repetativeness of this portion of the game. I'll leave and when you've mastered building that armoire there won't be anyone around to buy it. There isn't enough content to keep the people that don't want to be crafters entertained. Without this portion of the player base the economy will collapse.

    Now don't get me wrong, to a certain extent I like the fact that there is dependance on other players for the game to work. I don't like playing at 2am and coming into town to find there are no entertainers in the cantinas and no medics in the medical center. I don't like the fact that I can't find an upgraded weapon because MOBs don't drop them and the stuff on the bazaar is junk. The weaons crafters and armor crafters that were providing these services are quiting because they are tired of "being weapons whores" etc. There is no easy way to find out where players are building thier houses and setting up thier vendors so you spend hours running around aimlessly outside of cities looking for these vendors. You find one or hear of one and check the vendors there. Only to find out that there is either no stock or the weapons are equal to or below the quality of your current weapon (more of a problem for melees than ranged, and then mostly a problem for pikeman in the melee category).

    Now, this isn't the case on all the servers. I'm hearing about how there are tons of crafters on Starsider and you can find plenty of what you need. There are so many damn servers though there doesn't seem to be any consistancy.

    Now lets talk missions. Missions on the starter planets are designed to match your skills. However, they are way too easy, too time consuming, and the reward is rarely worth the effort. You spend 80% of your time running from the city to the mission area and back again. Now, the missions on some of the smaller planets or moons are much more difficult. In some cases impossible without huge groups. This is better, except that once you do get a big group together they become just as easy as the standard missions and the rewards are just as poor.

    I don't want this game to be like Everquest, heck I didn't like Everquest so I really don't want it to be like Everquest. There just isn't much there for anyone to do right now. There are people that are having fun, but the people I play with on a regular basis are already losing interest. The game is just over a month old, and in my opinion that is a very very bad sign.

  20. Re:What about the dupe factor? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

    Some parts of the article are very similar so that could be it. Also this article has been up on warcry since yesterday or the day before. So if you read warcry on a regular basis that would account for it.

  21. Re:Another person looking for Everquest Clone #788 by SoVeryWrong · · Score: 1

    Amusement is based on opinion.

    I absolutely hated every minute that I played Metal Gear Solid, then I see reviews that equate it to the second coming of Christ.

    To each their own I guess.

  22. Re:Another person looking for Everquest Clone #788 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I can play one or two hours a day and still make progress with some of my online friends.


    Could you elaborate on which ways you are progressing through the game, and what you find fun to do in it? Obviously you have a different opinion than the author of the article, and it would be interesting to me to hear more about a positive view of the game. I've never played, but I might want to in the future.

  23. This is not the game you're looking for. by Baines · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is not the game you're looking for.

    --

    ---
    Heavily armed, easily bored and off my medication.
    1. Re:This is not the game you're looking for. by steppencat · · Score: 1

      /BlankStare This is not the game I'm looking for /endBlankStare

    2. Re:This is not the game you're looking for. by Lumpish+Scholar · · Score: 1

      He can go about his business.

      --
      Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
  24. Re:Another person looking for Everquest Clone #788 by lafiel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    His "main beef" is that it's missing the "crushbone factor". This isn't "I want Crushbone in space with Jedi", this is "I want a story, a big dungeon, and interesting items with side quests to back it up".

    He spent quite a while explaining the Crushbone Factor. Perhaps if he named it "The Content Factor" you would have less to complain about. Perhaps you would have spared us your mini-rant about how much you hate Everquest, and your insults to mmorpg players.

    Everquest was designed as a game, SWG was designed as a world.

    I'm sorry, this is definitely news to me. SWG was made as a world, not a game. Of course, it all makes sense now! It's not a game in anyway! That's why it's not marketed a replacement for this world, Eart- oh, whoops.

    It's obvious that you like the SWG. Please, write up a rebuttal designed take apart Warthog's main argument, the lack of content. Don't segway off and bitch about Everquest. When your rebuttal is written, post it... I'd like to read another article that shows SWG in a more positive light.

  25. Who's a Jedi? by DrWho520 · · Score: 1

    I have not yet heard anyone talk about training to be a Jedi. Is anyone out there a Jedi? If so, are you having fun? I have heard about craft-beings, adventurers, brawlers, dancers, musicians and Pigs but no Jedi. Or has this not been implemented yet?

    --
    The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
    1. Re:Who's a Jedi? by Moonshadow · · Score: 2, Informative

      To become a Jedi, you have to unlock a Jedi character slot, through a process that no one knows about, and is supposed to take months. There will only be 1-5 Jedi per server, apparently, which is intended to keep them rare, which I certainly understand.

      To my knowledge, no players have unlocked Jedi slots yet, although there are a few Dark Jedi NPCs running around, as well as whole clans of force-sensitive witches on Dathomir.

    2. Re:Who's a Jedi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      To my knowledge, no players have unlocked Jedi slots yet, although there are a few Dark Jedi NPCs running around, as well as whole clans of force-sensitive witches on Dathomir.

      Does it worry you that you know this?

  26. Various responses by jafuser · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the article:
    For example, after the last patch I cannot follow anyone or anything. Whenever I try to use the follow command, I run in a straight line into infinity.

    I had this problem once back in beta. Toggling my "Chase Cam" fixed it. I think it's the numericpad decimal point key which toggles this.
    You see, if I can't get close to the monster, I can't hit it.

    The problem with being in-range to attack as a brawler is quite valid. Range for attacking purposes is calculated to the center of the beast you are attacking. Some of these beasts are HUGE, and you can be literally standing beneath them visually and still get "out of range".

    I also heard from one player that the beasts attack from the space where their head is located, but since they can only receive damage at their 3D object center, it gets kind of difficult to battle in any sensibible way.
    Although several servers have been down for maintenance, all of this is, really, just birth pains

    The worst problem with these unannounced 6-8 hour "emergency maintenance" sessions is that some people can't get to their harvesters during their gaming window that day, which can result in some seriously nasty losses, which the CSRs are very unlikely to rectify.

    But harvesters are a very very sore point all their own in this game. Harvesters are horribly implemented and have irrational costs considering their hit-and-miss usefulness.
    If I were SOE, I have a whole friggin' brigade of programmers designing dungeons and zones with lots and lots of "Crushbone Factor" in each and every one.

    I wonder how much the Franchise Approval process is slowing them down. This could be a significant liability if it is not streamlined.
    --
    Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
    1. Re:Various responses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I wonder how much the Franchise Approval process is slowing them down. This could be a significant liability if it is not streamlined.

      This is Lucas Arts problem as well. They have the power to cut through the franchise red-tape.

  27. It's tradition by Andy+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seems to me that people who buy an SOE game should pretty much know by now what they're getting themselves into.

    Consider this: There are lots of complaints about bugs. Lots of complaints about servers being unavailable. Lots of complaints about cheating, poor gameplay, boring quests, etc, etc... But regardless of what specifically people are complaining about, the pervasive theme running through 90% of complaints is that SOE simply don't care about their customers.

    I'm seeing cause, I'm seeing effect.

    1. Re:It's tradition by inkless1 · · Score: 1

      SOE is more than uncaring, they're downright antagonistic - they banned me for complaining about their tech support

  28. The problem I find is consequences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is supposed to be a battle for independence against a corrupt and evil regime? okay so I go out and murder whole villages of imperial soldiers and the only real consequence is faction points? I murdered two POLICE officers in front of a mass of people (I just mowed them down) and nothing happened! players ignored it and NPC's kept telling me they are not talking with me they are waiting for someone else. There doesn't seem to be any real reason to fight for or against either of the two factions except PvP and frankly whoever gets the first shot usually wins. If I murder an NPC I feel there should be some kind of consequence to that action if not why should I care? (In fact I try not to do such things since it is out of the scope of what I feel my Character would do, but damn it broken quests are frustrating) Don't get me wrong I have had fun and m still having fun, But I do not get the sense whatsoever that there is a galactic struggle going on. Kill a peace officer, take some spice and relax, no one cares or will do anything about it.

    1. Re:The problem I find is consequences by Attack0Llama · · Score: 1

      You bring up a valid point, I originally started a combat character (Marksman) and got him to a pretty high level, but I got tired of the missions really being the same task over and over - so I started an Entertainer character. I hope they will give the game some more feeling to it, I feel like there is no struggle at all (In fact it almost feels like peacetime with the occasion shooting). I am hooked though...

  29. Re:Another person looking for Everquest Clone #788 by will_die · · Score: 1

    I had someone tell me that you should treat SWG as Barbie and Ken world with the Lok Dream House.

  30. You can't please everyone! by Attack0Llama · · Score: 1

    There is a simple fact that comes with making games (Or pretty much anything for that matter). You can't please everyone all the time! SWG was created to please a certain group of people (Mainly those looking for a community based game, NOT combat!). I feel that it does this quite well, the game has a good community set up which scares away some of the "l33t d00dz" because people tend to find them annoying, but it attracts some players who are willing to start a character and play it out. The game will change over time, they always do (It's only been out a month, how long has EQ been out?). I am not saying that the game is perfect, it does have it's flaws (Capping is way too easy and quick). But the simple fact of the matter is that you can't please everyone all the time.

  31. Narglatch Lair by Shafli · · Score: 1

    He's wrong about one thing for sure. There is a "boss" mob in the Narglatch Lair...the Narglatch Matriarch. I know because she wiped our group the other night. =)

  32. sounds like i haven't missed anything by FBG+Zippy · · Score: 1

    i have been lamenting not picking this up immediately, but after reading all of the negative info out there, i am happy to have saved my cash.

    --
    DARE TO FIGHT ME?
  33. Updates in Testing center by AciDive · · Score: 0

    By the looks of the updates they have made to the Test Center server it looks as if they have started to listen to everyone. Go here to see list of updates on the test center server. Go here to sign up to play on the Test Center server.

    --
    "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect." Linus Torvalds
  34. Force sensitive by (trb001) · · Score: 1

    Something I've missed from all the reviews, and it probably won't get answered here because I'm posting a day after the /. post came out, but what happened to force sensitivity? I haven't seen a single article talkin about a character that has force powers. Wasn't this a 'Big Deal' for this game? The ability to mix Jedi Knight style gameplay with a MMORPG?

    I've never played SWG, but if I did I would like to see at least a few Jedi out there. I don't care if I'm *not* one, the ability to hunt Jedi is just as cool as the ability to be one.

    --trb

  35. He obviously didn't play EQ for long by laiquendi · · Score: 1
    ...because he neglected to mention that after a few days, crushbone got fucking boring, just like every other zone in EQ. Static content just doesn't cut it, no matter how nifty it is.

    Wolfpack had the right idea with Shadowbane: make the players the content. Everything else about the game is mediocre, but it's still the only MMO out there that can keep me interested.

  36. False Advertising by ShortedOut · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No Stars
    No Wars
    No Wars in the Stars
    No Galaxies

    No Star Wars Galaxies

    WTF?

    I think Star wars, I think of Cruising around in my Millenium Falcon shooting Tie Fighters.

    I think of flying low on Hoth taking out AT-AT's.

    I think of Lightsabers, blasters, and Stormtroopers in White Armor blasting everywhere.

    When I heard that you couldn't fly anything, and how the PvP system was implemented, I was like, you're kidding right?

    I want barfights, I want to jump in my spaceship and fly around.

    I want my fellow rebels to all hop in THEIR spaceships and try to take out a few Battlecruisers or something.

    I want to be able to attack a planet.

    SWG seems more like an experiment in MMORPG addictiveness rather than entertainment.

    I'm glad I listened to everybody and passed on this game.

    1. Re:False Advertising by darkwing_bmf · · Score: 1

      If you like battlefield 1942 you might want to check out the Galactic Conquest mod. The only map is Hoth, and you're not in space, but you can fly tie fighters, the millenium falcon, take out storm troopers, or be one yourself.

  37. SWG is closer to UO than EQ by MrKinkade · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You know I think half of the problem is that people are comparing SWG to the wrong game.

    While in looks and interface wise, EQ and SWG are very similar and either could pass for a clone of the other, fundimentally they are different games. I think it would be more accurate to compare post-launch SWG with early Ultima Online. If you look at the Dev team you can see why, I'd be willing to wager that half of the original UO dev team was recruited for SWG and that has an influence.

    Anyway, Ultima Online had NONE of the "Crush Bone" factor due to the fact that UO NEVER was about loot. If you went out and killed a bunch of monsters, you didn't go out to get uber Sword of XXXXX, you went out to get gold to buy player made armor and weapons. UO was made interested by a vastly superior PvP system that to this day, in my humble opion, has never been equalled or bettered; a VERY immersive world; Player Markets; a very tight and involving society and (upon later discovery, and un-intended system of...)rares.

    What I believe has happened to SWG is that Raphael Koster has tried to make a 3d sw-based version of UO, and people are expecting EQ. These two are apples and oranges and your expectations will taint your experience within the game. Not saying that SWG isn't lacking because make no mistake, it is greatly lacking, but people have their expectations the wrong way around. I don't think that SoE had those big mobs you need 34523453 people to take down in mind when they designed the game.

    The quest/unique mobs is NOT a required feature of an MMO. And a game that can be designed to be fun WITHOUT camping will succeed alot better than one that does. The reason being, these camps cause alot of competition, grief playing and headaches that the majority of gamers really don't want to deal with. However, UO did have static minor mobs for players to hunt. And they had them in abundance. Not only that, but dungeons were made 10x more interesting, not by mobs, but by players. Player killing added something to dungeon hunting that a super hard monster never will.

  38. Parent is wrong about why SWG went random by Liquidrage · · Score: 1

    The cost of content aside (which is a seperate arguement), the reason SWG went with random content was to address a vocal minority of players that have screamed for years in MMORPG circles about how evil *camping* is. Not because of the cost. There are many posts from SWG developers and designers and their random content. They do have some static content and once they fond people flocking to it, they nerfed the hell out of it (and no, I'm not joking or using hyperbole) to get people back to using the random content. As to cost. For a game like M59 that is always was low budget, I could see how it could be said that content is expensive. However, when a game like EQ was able to launch with 30+ zones and all but 1 was full of content, and it was all done in 1 year with one content developer, I think the "cost" of content appears to be about the price of 1 full time content creator. We're looking at about 80K for two years of content development prior to launch. And then you have to remember that your saving a few months of developer time since now you don't need to create a massively complicated random content generator. These games have mulit million dollar production budgets. So I can't agree with my parent that content is expensive. In the content we're talking about thats like saying a nice computer is expensive. Sure, for you. But not for the SWG development team.

  39. last post again!!! by muirhead · · Score: 1

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