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Real Announce Helix Grant Program, Player
Rob Lanphier writes "RealNetworks made two announcements at LinuxWorld this week: we will be giving out up to $75,000 by the end of the year for development of open source projects based on the Helix multimedia platform. Also, we just formally launched the Helix Player project, which is a project to build a GTK+ based user interface for Linux, Solaris, and other UNIXy operating systems. Press releases for the grant program here and player project here"
pwned!!112 eat it! eat my poop!
CAPS LOCK IS LIKE CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!
The Helix program is nothing but a set of "standardized" shells. The media player is simply the player sans any codecs and the server is simply and encoder/server again sans the codecs. Apparently, you're supposed to buy the codecs from Real. Even more annoying is the fact that you can't even download the blasted beta software without becoming an active developer and signing and faxing 5 different NDAs! What the hell kind of "open source" is this anyway?!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
But anyway, better read all this carefully.
So, they'll be paying the equivalent of the salary of a single developer for a year. And this is impressive, why?
options.c
bool DRM_Enabled = True;
bool player_works = True
etc.. etc..
sounds like this could be a good thing. the older versions of real player for linux worked with moderate success. but they were shoved far out of reach on the real site like that guy in office space who likes his stapler so much. the versions weren't quite current and the players were sub-standard compared to the windows version. it'd be nice if they released a decent media player for linux and even better if it were open sourced.
Can I port the bit of Realplayer that takes over your browser and can only be removed with holy water and a complete reinstall?
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
In case of ./
Beware of the elusive...
The unofficial
When open source meets traditional business the results aren't always what the GNU and FSF might get excited about, but an honest effort is better then nothing.
Just imagine if someone like Adobe showed this much community support with open source.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the real video format the compression and error correction is actually quite good for low bitrate streaming... it is the bloated adware infested interface that is awful!
- PS. This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R where eliminated.
Programmers could be the bounty hunters of the future, coding and chasing down bugs for profit and adventure.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
when SCO sues everyone who has released code that can run on Linux.
Are there any free, cross-platform streaming video encoders out there?
Real cost money, you need a Mac to encode Quicktime (the server can run on a PC, though), and Windows Media Encoder is Windows only.
TRPlayer
thor
Whoever runs slashdot should ban this guy. Look at the link he has in his signature is horrible.
Linux, Solaris, and other UNIXy operating systems.
Why not just sum that up with "Derivatives of SCO IP" ?!?
People these days...
The unofficial
Developers are NOT worth $75k!
And you people wonder why all your jobs are being outsourced.
SCO'll be busy trying to figure out how the hell they uninstall RealPlayer, RealScheduler, RealOne and that annoying calendar thing that pops up and tells you you haven't closed it recently...
because they will be able to afford at least one FULL time developer for a year... what's NOT impressive about that. if you can't develop a decent media player based on someone else's media framework in a year of full time work, you are a waste of skin.
Tool
mpeg4ip for encoding, Darwin Streaming Server for serving, VLC/MPlayer/Helix/mpeg4ip for playing.
It is surprising to see the flak this news is receiving given that Real will be the first company to work towards a player(Helix player) on the linux platform. Now only if apple would follow suite, we wouldnt have to rely on cross over plugins to play these formats.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
Real >>>buffering 34%>>> Player is some >>>buffering 46%>>> of the >>>buffering 54%>>> finest >>>buffering 60%>>> software I've ever >>>buffering 70%>>> come across.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
arghh....mod parent down just for adding that goatse.cs crap
While any commercial software that gets developed for Linux is a plus for everyone involved, I think their $75k would be better spend on a programmer for a year. This seems like an inexpensive way for them to generate "buzz" around their product in the OSS community - even though their product is not OSS.
Don't get me wrong - I think the REAL codecs are great, but this "offer" isn't.
I'd rather be a conservative nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.
While I love MPEG-4 for what it's good at, what it's good at doesn't include real-time streaming over the public internet. Darwin + MPEG-4 doesn't offer any good form of scalability. Thus, if you encode a file at 400 Kbps, and a user's connection is 350 Kbps for a few minutes, they'll get a horrible quality experience.
RealMedia supports SureStream, which lets you put up to eight pairs of video and audio into a single file, and the server and player communicate in real time to determine the optimum data rate for the transmission. It'll even raise and lower data rate as connection speed changes - very useful for cable modem and shared bandwidth from work.
This will come in MPEG-4 eventually, via Fine Grain Scalability (FGS), or some future scalable version of the AVC codec. But that's a couple years away from being in real consumer products I'd guess.
Oh, and I totally don't believe that you really regularly use MPEG4IP for volume compression. I mean, the TOOLS are there, but you have to go through like five different command line steps to make a file. It can produce fine results (it uses Xvid), but MPEG4IP is really like LAME - it's not meant as an end-use tool in and of itself. Well, the player is fine stand alone.
My video compression blog
Since the helix 'platform' is just a player without codecs, and a server/streamer without codecs...
:)
Would they give me money for porting the Ogg stuff to thier platform
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
Where Redhat and Real were working together on an an updated RealPlayer for Linux. I'm I having a false recovered memory or did that just never pan out?
Those who like following links before complaining may have found this:
t ro .html
https://player.helixcommunity.org/2003/draft/in
Wow! Support for all the latest video and audio codecs! Including the proprietary-but-excellent Real stuff, Ogg Vorbis, MPEG-4, and others.
My video compression blog
Should Slashdot editors post an article by someone who works for RealNetworks? He only gave links to sites run by Real. Shouldn't it at least contain a few links from actual news sources like C-Net, who might put things in a less partial perspective?
One could argue that it's better to get an article straight from the source, then read the comments for impartial opinion and review. However, I disagree. Slashdot should be a collection of articles that the community found interesting and submitted on their own. It shouldn't become a press release distribution ground for promoting corporate agendas to Linux geeks.
my blog
Because they don't have to.
When someone gives you something do you always complain that is not really that much? In my mind offering $75,000 to a cause is a pretty generous gesture.
Quack, quack.
Until SCO sues Real... That's my prediction
I've always felt linux has been lacking massive quanities of advertisements.
And if you want interoperability, Real is still the way to go. There is no other format for streaming media where all the following applies:
- Streaming server running on Linux
- Encoder running on Linux
- Players for Linux (including Alpha, PowerPC and IA32 architectures) and a few other Unix-type systems: Solaris, AIX, IRIX, Mac OS X.
- Server and players capable of understanding SMIL
Plus, most of the server, encoder and player code is open-source (except the GUI). I have already compiled it, and it works great.And people who really understand about streaming media know that MPEG4 is no alternative, yet.
The press release listed these codecs for this player:
SMIL 2.0
RealVideo (RV9, RV8, RV7, RVG2)
RealAudio (RA8, G2 audio)
MP3
Ogg Vorbis
MPEG4 (patent license for MPEG4 must be obtained separately)
H.263
My video compression blog
You are late... Their plataform already supports Ogg.
Dear Real Networks,
Please go away and rethink your business model and come back when you are ready to release something of value.
If you wish to win the hearts and minds of open source developers you need to do more than your current offer which smacks of "Here is 75K, code & licenses of questionable value, please go do our coding for us".
Instead you might want to check out a _profitable_ business model like that used by TrollTech, SleepyCat Software, ZeroC and others. The scheme is this: Release your codecs as a GPL library that allows open source (GPL) code to link against it. Proprietary software is required to purchase a seperate license to use the library. Sell a high quality proprietary multimedia production app that uses these codecs.
Remember, business is about taking measured risks, and it's time for Real "realize" this.
Otherwise Real risks fading into obscurity. The sentiment here [in my office] is that this has already happened. The time for bold action has arrived.
Exactly why do you say this? MPlayer supports windows media streaming, real media streaming, and quicktime media streaming. Does Helixplayer support all these?
Try hopping on the Helix Community IRC sometime. Lots of the developers hang out there, and I've found it's a very responsive way to ask questions.
As for the networking problem, I suspect what you're doing is quite a bit simpler than the full scope of a client/server streaming media architecture. While the theory is reasonably well documented, this isn't the kind of thing a guy writes in a basement in a few months.
My video compression blog
Not having Realplayer is just another reason that I can't switch from Windows to Linux.
What about FreeBSD...will they release something to run on FreeBSD?
At least Real are finally doing something about Linux. If they are going to force their damn advertising on me however, that would be far from ideal!
Introduction
The current situation is that one has to use RealOne player to play RealMedia files. One has to register the player before you can play a file, but the player will simply go around in loops asking you to register, no matter how many times you do it. Even when it does start to play it crashes and leaks --for it has become a kitchen-sink(TM) application.
Of course, there are stuff like Xine and MPlayer, but their legal status is dubious and since being done the sneaky way is not working at the best.
If RealMedia is reluctant to come out with a simpley player for playing RealMedia audio and video files ONLY (i.e. no 'jukebox' or ripping or audio-cd making and other junk), let others write them by making the codecs freely distributable (for playing back ONLY) and making the interface documentation freely available.
Helix: Episode IV: A New Hope
This Helix thing seems to be more than just the audio-video stuff, and seems to encompass a broader take on mult-media on the Internet.
Does this bring up a hope that such simple players (non-sneaky) could be a reality in the near future?
GrimReality
2003-08-07 02:51:07 UTC (2003-08-06 22:51:07 EDT)
the only "quality" I see in streaming real is that vivid green bar.
The kind it was designed to be--that movement doesn't consider the freedom to share and modify the program to be as important as the practical development advantages to a business. Sometimes this means approving licenses that are also considered free software licenses, sometimes it will not. The FSF has an informative article on the philosophical differences between the two movements.
Digital Citizen
The codec is only a piece of the picture. The container format is very important, and usually what people standardize on. Helix is giving us that and more.
The project was not, I suspect, suppose to be an 'end-user' type project. Note that they did not release any binaries. Helix is a platform.
Helix provides a uniform, client, server, and encoder source base. All open source. All we need to do now is build binaries around that. Industry will much easier pick up a product built on Real's helix, than something managements never heard of.
I'd wager that the legality of MPlayer and xine is questionable. From the dll's they import to the codecs they emulate. Real is giving us something that they own for sure.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
Helix's licenses have been cleared by the people that help protect the open-source definition http://opensource.org/
By the way they're not giving a client. They're giving us the framework to build the client, and the server, and the encoders. There's no "nagware" unless open source developers choose to put it there.
The problem I suspect is that the helix project is geared to to people that can do something with the source, not end users. Hence most of slashdotters have no idea how this project can help them.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
Instead of creating an super-intrusive application, please release some open source directshow codecs for real media files.
This will enable me to play your media files in a player of my choice instead of using your crap player.
Getting the code is admittedly more complicated than it needs to be (and we're working on that), but hyperbole like the parent post should not be modded up as "Informative". The steps are:
1. Sign up for the site, filling in a form with proposed user name, real name, company name, and email.
2. Receive confirmation URL, and visit included URL
3. Agree to site terms of use
4. Agree to RPSL (an OSI certified license)
5. Get source code via CVS/SSH
Why are we being hardasses about making sure that people agree to licenses? It's a combination of the way the legal system works, and our general conservativeness that stems from being a publicly traded company.
There are good reasons to ensure that "manifestation of assent" occurs, even for open source. I'll defer to Larry Rosen's excellent paper on the topic. Larry, as you may know, is the General Counsel for the Open Source Initiative, and while his opinion is only an opinion, it's a very well informed one.
As for the functionality, it's more than just "shells". There's complete software there, and it's the foundation of our commercial products. Additionally, the combination of Ogg Vorbis, SMIL 2.0, JPEG, GIF, and PNG is very powerful, and *all open source*. No RealAudio/RealVideo necessary, and the app is pretty unique. For an example which plays in the Helix Player (and versions of RealPlayer/RealOne Player with the Ogg Vorbis codec installed), check out the following link:
http://rtsp.org/2003/demos/oggsmil/oggdemo.smil
Once one starts looking at SMIL (especially SMIL 2.0), you begin to realize that a system that can support it does a lot.
Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator
You don't need to sign an NDA to get the source code. You are either mistaken or lying. Which is it?
This is a great set of observations. We've learned a lot in the past year, and we realized that with this initiative, we can't be as hyperfocused on developers as we have been in the past. Hence why we're working on the building a great piece of *open source* end user software for Linux/Solaris/etc.
So in short, you're correct, the initiative is focused on developers, and I'm glad you're recognizing the value of the system.
Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator
OSI owns the OpenSource trademark and awards it only to licenses compatible with the basic freedoms also found in Debian free software guidelines. an OSI software has to be quite free, though sometimes a bit less free than the GPL
http://opensource.org/
yeaaah! now we can have opensource-popup-windows and opensource-advertisements!!!
class he-man extends man!
Please 1) release some codecs, 2) document your file formats so we can build code to play your encoded content, or 3) crawl off into a corner and die as quickly as possible.
Right now Real-encoded content is the most incredible PITA, because there's lots of it, and converting it to MP3 to listen to on my portable MP3 player can only be done in real time.
Perhaps if you (Real) hadn't kept your file formats proprietary, everyone would be using Real players instead of MP3 players. But hey, you made your bed, now lie in it: we all want MP3 or plain audio. Give us a way to get it, or we aren't touching your crap.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I figure I owe the Helix guys an apology for posting such cutting remarks. I probably could have phrased them better. What they have done/are doing is important stuff and should not be devalued. My primary complaint against Real/Helix is the amount of red tape the project has generated as well as the confusion the community page produces. It looks like some progress has been made in this area since I last attempted to visit their project, and I hope in the future Real will see the wisdom in emulating other fine projects such as Mozilla and OpenOffice. If they can make that leap, they will at least have my support, and most likely the support of the rest of the developer community.
Good luck guys. It's up to you now.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Time to be the black sheep here...... /me is perfectly happy using the adless spywareless fully functional for free mplayer
Do we really NEED another "open source" player.... especially one from an evil corporation like this one.
In effect, these companies seek to gain the favorable cachet of ``open source'' for their proprietary software products--even though those are not ``open source software''--because they have some relationship to free software or because the same company also maintains some free software. (One company founder said quite explicitly that they would put, into the free package they support, as little of their work as the community would stand for.)
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!