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US Military Develops P2P Wireless Network Sniffer

Merlin83 writes "As being reported on The Register, the US Military is developing a new system for monitoring enemy battlefield communication. Called WolfPack, each node is a 6"x4" cylinder, launched by missile or dropped from aircraft. Once the node lands, it stands up, extends its antenna and contacts other nodes. The nodes can also jam cellular communications by transmitting a signal themselves. "

299 comments

  1. Life is starting to remind me more and more... by under_score · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Of "the Diamond Age". We just have to get these things smaller...

    1. Re:Life is starting to remind me more and more... by pontifier · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Of science fiction!

      Vernor vinge wrote about these things in his story "Fast Times at Fairmont High"

      In his story they were super small and sprinkled around to create a robust network. the only problem was cleanup when they went bad.

      --
      -John Fenley
    2. Re:Life is starting to remind me more and more... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In his story they were super small and sprinkled around

      Did they look like Jimmies?

    3. Re:Life is starting to remind me more and more... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Did Jeff Spicoli attend that school?

    4. Re:Life is starting to remind me more and more... by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1

      Vernor Vinge has also used devices like this in _A Deepness in the Sky_. The so-called 'localisers', providing information about their relative positions and surroundings, helping to provide a map of the surroundings.

      An interesting idea, to say the least.

  2. RIAA by sik0fewl · · Score: 5, Funny

    I would've thought the RIAA would've been ahead of the US military on this one.

    --
    I remember when legal used to mean lawful, now it means some kind of loophole. - Leo Kessler
    1. Re:RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Why? The RIAA has been lacking in technology these days no?

      What would impress me is if they can come up with a new business model w/r/t digial music and fitting it in with their business

    2. Re:RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      did you even read the article? it isnt about sniffing existing p2p file sharing networks, it is about CREATING a p2p network that is used to intercept and/or jam enemy cellular communications...

    3. Re:RIAA by TheOtherChimeraTwin · · Score: 2, Funny
      did you even read the article?

      You must be new here. Don't you know there are 10 types of people on slashdot: those who RTFA, and those who comment. If you read, you don't have time for a witty comment.

    4. Re:RIAA by krisp · · Score: 0

      You do if you subscribe. Or, better yet, you can troll the top comments!

    5. Re:RIAA by kaseyH · · Score: 1

      I can't wait until I find one of these puppies in my backyard. Reminiscent of the Simpson's Major League Baseball conspiracy...maybe Mark McGuire would come over, steal it, then blow it off by hitting some home runs! ...or maybe not...

    6. Re:RIAA by azzy · · Score: 0

      There are 10 types of people, those that know binary, and those that don't.

    7. Re:RIAA by op00to · · Score: 1

      Obviously, you decided to RTFA.

  3. Guess they've figured out how to get around these by luzrek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Considering how dependant the US military is on high tech communications, I'm guessing we are only hearing about this because they have figured out how to get around something like this. Anyone care to speculate on what that is?

    --

    Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.

  4. Small and cylindrical? by ArmenTanzarian · · Score: 5, Funny

    Radar Tech: Sir! The radar, sir! It appears to be... jammed!
    Dark Helmet: Jammed... Raspberry!

    1. Re:Small and cylindrical? by jasondlee · · Score: 1

      I was thinking more like the opening scene of The Empire Strikes Back where those drones are all over Hoth. 8-)

      jason

      --
      jason
      Have a good day?! Impossible! I'm at work!
    2. Re:Small and cylindrical? by letxa2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, the drones were sent all over the *galaxy*. In the movie we are only shown that a single drone hits Hoth. Which, of course, always seemed pretty silly to me since what's the probability of the drone hitting anywhere near where the rebel base happens to be? That lends credibility to the thought that many were sent to each planet--but we certainly weren't shown that in the movie.

      Sorry, I don't usually bicker about movie details in Slashdot posts--but this has always been something that bothered me since I was a kid. What were the odds of a single drone happpening upon the rebel base on an entire planet?

    3. Re:Small and cylindrical? by Hettch · · Score: 0

      didn't you ever play any of the Star Wars video games??? They sent like thousands to a planet in those things.

    4. Re:Small and cylindrical? by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What were the odds of a single drone happpening upon the rebel base on an entire planet?

      Do a couple orbits around the planets in a system scanning for the strongest power source and start there. We are never really told how long the probes had been out there, But we can assume a good little while because of teh time that had passed between New Hope and Empire. Also we don't really know how close the Star Destroyer fleet was to Hoth on top of that. It's quite probable that they got a bit lucky.

      --
      I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
      I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
    5. Re:Small and cylindrical? by falcon5768 · · Score: 1
      actually we saw TWO hit the surface, the one luke was investigating when he got his ass kicked by the ice moster (remeber he thought it was a meteorite hit we never saw that it was a droid per say, but the opening we see that something falls to the planet from a star destroyer so it's likely it was) and then again with han and chewie this strike happening much later (therfore not from the same group that came at the begining of the movie)

      GOD im a geek

      --

      "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

    6. Re:Small and cylindrical? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      If it's any consolation, the Rogue Squadron games depicted lots of probes on the surface.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    7. Re:Small and cylindrical? by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 1

      (ok, I have to show off my geekness here (and the fact that I have a 4 year old that has watched all 5 movies movies more times than I have since they were new (I'm almost 30) in only the couple years here's been watching them)).

      and then again with han and chewie this strike happening much later (therfore not from the same group that came at the begining of the movie)

      True and a very good point, but in any story, things can happen at the same time, but you need to explain them since without a split screen, you have to go backwards and forwards a lot. Perhaps while we see the scene of the probe shooting out is when Luke was out on his patrol. It was later on when the probe homed in on the Rebel's Main powersource, is when Chewie and Han blasted the damn thing (thus Han and Chewie getting theere so fast - the thing was real close). They ran into it a good little while after Luke got nailed by the Snow Creature thing (the name I honestly forget). The probe had plenty of time to get closer for investigation.

      I mean, the AT-ATs knew exactly where to go. Perhaps the communication that 3PO couldn't interperet was the transmission of the coordinates of the Master Power Generator of the Rebel Base.

      I could also be thinking too much about it, though...
      :-)

      --
      I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
      I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
    8. Re:Small and cylindrical? by mniskin · · Score: 1

      Dude, Darth Vader used the force. He knew where to send those probes ;)

    9. Re:Small and cylindrical? by fucksl4shd0t · · Score: 1

      (ok, I have to show off my geekness here (and the fact that I have a 4 year old that has watched all 5 movies movies more times than I have since they were new (I'm almost 30) in only the couple years here's been watching them)).

      I'm in the same boat, except I also have a 3-year old that loves those movies.

      True and a very good point, but in any story, things can happen at the same time, but you need to explain them since without a split screen, you have to go backwards and forwards a lot. Perhaps while we see the scene of the probe shooting out is when Luke was out on his patrol. It was later on when the probe homed in on the Rebel's Main powersource, is when Chewie and Han blasted the damn thing (thus Han and Chewie getting theere so fast - the thing was real close). They ran into it a good little while after Luke got nailed by the Snow Creature thing (the name I honestly forget). The probe had plenty of time to get closer for investigation.

      There's only 3-6 months between the two movies. During that time, the imperial fleet chases the rebels to and fro, finding them in one hiding place and chasing them out. Hoth was the rebels' last chance to have a base, after that (at the end of the movie) they had to escape outside the galaxy.

      Now, we don't know what methods the imperials used for all this time. I get the impression that they used probes such as these a LOT, or perhaps as their primary means of finding the rebels. Therefore, in the 3-6 months between the movies, it's quite likely that they sent enough probes out to cover a good enough percentage of planets to locate the rebels.

      Now, for all that, let's keep in mind that if the imperials didn't find them on Hoth, they wouldn't have attacked, and the entire movie would have been different. Obviously, the story they intended to tell was quite different.

      Also, let's not forget the Captain that received the signal and said "There are so many uncharted settlements, if we followed up on every lead...". So obviously the Empire knew that any lead coming through didn't necessarily mean anything. But Darth Vader, using the force, was able to determine that that lead *was* the rebels, "and Skywalker is with them."

      I mean, the AT-ATs knew exactly where to go. Perhaps the communication that 3PO couldn't interperet was the transmission of the coordinates of the Master Power Generator of the Rebel Base.

      The communication 3PO didn't understand was the probe droid, sending its signal. You see, first we see the Empire receiving the signal and identifying that the rebels are there and moving to attack. Then we see the rebels discovering the signal and begin evacuating, after Han says "I didn't hit it that hard, it must have had a self-destruct mechanism" followed soon with "It's a good bet the Empire knows we're here."

      Finally, a small timeline. :) First, we watch a series of probes shoot out from a star destroyer. Then the camera follows one all the way to Hoth. Then we see it crash. Then we see Luke watching it crash. Then he calls Han, and we see Han. Then Luke gets taken by the snow monster (never given a name) and the sequence about Han finding him. While Luke's in the bacta tank, Han and Chewie go out and investigate. Wehn they get back, the evacuation is already starting and Luke is in shape. (Also in here somewhere is Han and Leia's argument in the south corridor)

      Just to be pedantic. I also have the Star Wars Trivial Puruit, if you ever feel like matching me. :)

      --
      Like what I said? You might like my music
  5. Homebrew Cellular Phone Jammers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Schematics and technical info here:

    Cellular Phone Jammers

    1. Re:Homebrew Cellular Phone Jammers by danknight · · Score: 1

      dyndns??? someone must not like this guy! I suspect someones home network is now 'jammed' the Slashdot effect strikes again!

      --
      wanted: one clever sig,apply within
  6. Can you... by hussain · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..hear me now? boom!

  7. P2P? by The+Bungi · · Score: 5, Funny
    [sgt] deploy the WolfPack
    [pvt] roger
    [pvt] stand by...

    aol_grl has joined #battlefield

    [aol_grl] h3y guyz!!!
    [aol_grl] 17/f/s
    [aol_grl] u wanna ch^7??
    [pvt] oh shit
    [sgt] get out of here bitch, we're trying to fight a war

    [aol_grl] aol_grl sends roses to sgt @-`,-`,--

    [aol_grl] dont b a poop mouth!!!

    [aol_grl] any1 now how2 make the mouse go faster??????
    [aol_grl] my pC is *really* sloooowwww
    [aol_grl] whatz wolfpack???
    [aol_grl] imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!!! hahahaha!!!
    aol_grl giggles madly

    sgt has left #battlefield
    pvt has left #battlefield

    [aol_grl]>>> guyz???
    1. Re:P2P? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      The day a AOL user learns what a Beowulf cluster is, is the day the world ends.

    2. Re:P2P? by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 1

      binladen has quit IRC (Quit: NO CARRIER)
      [aol_grl] LOL!

    3. Re:P2P? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well, most Slashdotters don't know what it actually does either, but that doesn't stop them from talking about them.

    4. Re:P2P? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parent post was bad. But that was worse. Can't make up your own jokes, can ya?

    5. Re:P2P? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't most slashdotter's log in via AOL?
      The difference between the two group's mentality is fairly small...

  8. Less is More by gyrojoe · · Score: 1

    Doing more with less (power) may seem unusual
    True enough, but you need multiple units.
    Doing more with more (money) is business as usual for the DoD. No suprise there.

    1. Re:Less is More by AirRock · · Score: 1

      I always thought they did less with more money? Maybe i was just mistaken.

    2. Re:Less is More by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Doing more with more (money) is business as usual for the DoD. No suprise there.


      No kidding. $10K/node? These guys have obviously never heard of pringles.

    3. Re:Less is More by gyrojoe · · Score: 1

      Ah, but they have heard of Pringles. Half the cost of each node pays the salary of the general who eats the Pringles so they have plenty of cans to use!

  9. Does it run Linux? by don_carnage · · Score: 4, Funny

    Each device, which runs on battery, should last approximately two months. When possible, devices can be recovered and reused. The cost of each is estimated at $10,000.

    $10,000??!! I bet there are plenty of Linux geeks around Slashdot that could do it for a fraction of that! ;^)

    1. Re:Does it run Linux? by avalys · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, let's see - it's a 6' by 4' metal cylinder, that has to be dropped from an airplane or launched and deployed from a missile into a possibly hostile environment (hot/cold/dusty/wet), yet still reliably remain intact enough to right itself on a surface that is most likely not flat, deploy its antenna and function for two months off a single battery charge.

      $10,000 sounds like a bargain.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Does it run Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Each device, which runs on battery, should last approximately two months. When possible, devices can be recovered and reused. The cost of each is estimated at $10,000."

      $10,000??!! I bet there are plenty of Linux geeks around Slashdot that could do it for a fraction of that! ;^)


      Damn right. And so long as the US military keeps paying this much for such devices, it's never going to be a threat to the /. community. Of course that doesn't mean that /. couldn't be a threat to the US military if it so desired... ;-)
    3. Re:Does it run Linux? by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Funny

      That probably includes the $CO licensing fee.

    4. Re:Does it run Linux? by Jonsey · · Score: 1

      6" by 4". Think 16cm by 11cm.

      However, seeing the army drop vaporators on the desert would probably make it look a lot more like a small area in Tunisia.

      --
      I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
    5. Re:Does it run Linux? by devphil · · Score: 4, Funny


      And the average /. reader is probably also cylidrically shaped, too, just like the canisters.

      When dropped from a height, if your first reactions are to stand up, contact other geeks, and begin finding local networks, then yes, Uncle Sam Wants You!

      --
      You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
    6. Re:Does it run Linux? by AirRock · · Score: 1

      For the number of expensive toys they have, i'm suprised these dont cost near $200K

    7. Re:Does it run Linux? by avalys · · Score: 1

      I meant to say 6 inches by 4 inches, I really did.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    8. Re:Does it run Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      So what you're saying is that we should drop Linux geeks out of aeroplanes in order to jam enemy communications?

      Sounds like a fantastic plan to me...

    9. Re:Does it run Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and SCO is demanding $700 in licensing fees for each unit the military deploys.....

      And in other news, It's been reported that a large explosion has occured at SCO headquarters in Utah. Initial reports say that it may have been the US Militaries famed Bunker Buster bomb.....

    10. Re:Does it run Linux? by brakk · · Score: 1

      $10,000 sounds like a bargain

      ya, considering NASA would have charged them $10,000,000 for the same thing. The only difference is instead of olive drab, it would have that gold foil stuff on the outside.

    11. Re:Does it run Linux? by Gherald · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > NASA would have charged them $10,000,000 for the same thing. The only difference is instead of olive drab, it would have that gold foil stuff on the outside.

      You forget, the NASA cylinders would be certified for a drop on Mars.

    12. Re:Does it run Linux? by mustangsal66 · · Score: 1

      Umm 6' x 4'??

      How about 4" diameter, weighing 6lbs.

      Later in the article they talk about a "six-pack in the backpack". Sir you have a mighty large backpack...

      --
      Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
      Sig changed for readability by G.W.
  10. Imagine a... by jaxdahl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    beowulf cluster of these! No. Seriously. Could you have a impromptu cellular network be put up, perhaps in the Niagara-Mohawk area if power goes out again and the cell-phone tower generators run out of fuel?

    1. Re:Imagine a... by AirRock · · Score: 1

      Or even for developing countries like parts of Africa and Eastern Europe where towers would be too expensive and take too much time to construct.

    2. Re:Imagine a... by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      $10,000 buys a lot of diesel.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    3. Re:Imagine a... by GlassHeart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Could you have a impromptu cellular network be put up, perhaps in the Niagara-Mohawk area if power goes out again and the cell-phone tower generators run out of fuel?

      It's not terribly practical.

      Such a device would have to do more than eavesdrop and relay. It has to continually broadcast to let cell phones know it exists. This will likely consume a lot more power than the military device.

      Such a device would almost by definition only be used in emergencies, where phone usage is expected to peak. The current design monitors battlefield communications, which is likely to be a lot less traffic. It will, in essence, be slashdotted while running on battery.

      Such a device would have to connect to the real phone network. Normal cell sites have buried cables to transmit, while this device would probably have to use satellite. The inherent satellite hop delays will wreak havoc on cellular protocols*. Talking to the satellite, of course, also requires more power than talking to cell phones.

      Cell towers are towers for a reason: the height is crucial to achieve coverage (of perhaps 2 miles radius). Such a device could not easily get line-of-sight to a lot of potential users if it was simply airdropped. Absent appropriate terrain (like a hill without trees), they have to be installed manually on towers unless you want to contemplate technology for these devices to hoist themselves up a hundred feet or so.

      Now, all of that to replace a guy driving a truck with a few cans of diesel? (Seriously, many emergency response plans include setting up satellite-based communications.)

      * The easiest problem to understand is that satellite delays mess up cellular protocol timeouts, which are designed to communicate at light speed over a couple of miles. Put simply, you can't make a satellite phone out of a cell phone by simply boosting its transmission signal.

    4. Re:Imagine a... by jaxdahl · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the explanations.

      1) Cheaper to use fuel
      2) Radio would work better in emergenices.
      3) Not very good range

  11. civilian version? by lurgyman · · Score: 1

    I could use one of these on the bus ride to school.... toss a few around the bus and suddenly you don't have to hear about when everyone's dentist appointments are going to be.

  12. Not a smart move by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wouldn't think that the US would want something like this to exist. Think what some of these could do in a large city.

    And they propose to drop them on the ground in unfriendly areas, where anyone can come along and pick them up!

    -1 Idiotic

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    1. Re:Not a smart move by krisp · · Score: 4, Funny

      Come on! this is the US military! Im sure they have some sort of safe guards against that sort of .. oh nevermind.

    2. Re:Not a smart move by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 0

      Who's talking about the military?

      So the military can talk around it. What about everyone in NYC? Can they?

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    3. Re:Not a smart move by Yanray · · Score: 1

      Hence, in the reasoning of the US military, it is best to invent the worst possible version of it and spend billions of dollars trying to find ways to circumvent the technology

      --
      --"Sorry for the inconvience." Gods Last Words to his Creation
      DNA, So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
    4. Re:Not a smart move by homer_ca · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's not much secret about radio. Most HAMs could probably rig up a big dumb 800Mhz or 1900Mhz transmitter that'll kill cellular service for a big area. Then again we get shitty signal anyway, most people wouldn't think anything was wrong. They'd just drive another mile down the road until it worked.

    5. Re:Not a smart move by PiratePTG · · Score: 1
      >Most HAMs could probably rig up a big dumb 800Mhz or 1900Mhz transmitter that'll kill cellular service for a big area.

      I know a guy that built just a device for use when he was on a news location. He ran a satellite uplink truck, and when he couldn't get any lines out on any of the cellphones in his truck, he would bring out this blue box, press a button, and then start dialing his phones... A simple 800 MHz noise generator at about 5 watts would blow everyone else off the air, then he would get his phones up before anyone had a chance to redial...

      He knocked my lines down once (and ONLY once) right after the school shooting in Jonesboro Arkansas... As soon as it happened, I went looking for him and told him if he used it again, I'd let all the other truck operators know who he was, and let the FCC know who he was... He didn't use it again for the 10 days I was in Jonesboro...

      --
      The number 1 problem of working in a cubicle - 23 power cords, 1 outlet...
    6. Re:Not a smart move by Not_Wiggins · · Score: 1

      Great point! Now the enemy wouldn't have to bother with building such devices, they can just pick them up off the battlefield, "ship" them back into the US, and voila!

      Instant "Paralyze the Infidels' Communication Networks!"

      Great... really... I'm glad I get to *pay* for it, too. 8P

      --
      Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
    7. Re:Not a smart move by tcr · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't think that the US would want something like this to exist. Think what some of these could do in a large city.

      And they propose to drop them on the ground in unfriendly areas, where anyone can come along and pick them up!

      -1 Idiotic


      I was under the impression that they're not just dumb jamming devices, and will be built to be specifically controlled by US Command and Control centres - which will tell them whether they are to operate as listeners or jammers.

      Of course, I guess you read the article too... :-)

      --


      Information wants to be beer.
  13. Poorly Edited by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    That has to be one of the more poorly edited articles I've ever seen. First off, there were numerous gramatical errors and incomplete sentences. Secondly there's a completely erroneous reference to Napster which was NOT a P2P network.

    I consider this as poor as CNN reporting that ConEd was on fire last night. Just 10 minutes of proof-reading and fact checking would show the faults. I hate this bullshit.

  14. Why the limitation? by The+Old+Burke · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ..for monitoring enemy battlefield communication..

    Why limit the system to only battlefield? I mean if this works for the US Military it is also usefull in a more civill environment.
    The Army could license the technology to companies and earn in some of those tax dollars.
    This has happened before with a lot of tech and it could happen again. Just think about the possibilities in for example the fight against terror.

    --
    Proud patriot and republican voter.
    1. Re:Why the limitation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just think about the possibilities in for example the fight against terror.^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcivil liberties

    2. Re:Why the limitation? by bourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why limit the system to only battlefield?

      Because in a civil environment, we call devices that allow eavesdropping and jamming of communications "cell towers" and "central offices."

      Seriously, something like this is designed to intrude into an area of no control or hostile control. The civil scenario you describe is one where the authorities have control, and have laws requiring the telecom carriers to allow access to the infrastructure in certain circumstances. No need to drop pringles cans.

    3. Re:Why the limitation? by The+Old+Burke · · Score: 1
      The civil scenario you describe is one where the authorities have control, and have laws requiring the telecom carriers to allow access to the infrastructure in certain circumstances. No need to drop pringles cans.
      Yes, I understand that. But as long as the population in this country is so relluctant to allow our government the right to initiate, launch and complete surveillance of possible dangerous elements in our society its difficault for different branches within the government to efficiently accomplish their goals.

      Many inside our government fear that terrorist cells can be build up from within our nation by people that don't agree with our policy. When you involve the telecoms that adds bureaucracy to the process and that slows down investigations.
      In many other cointries in the world it's much easier to controll the population from engaging in unwanted activities, so some terrorist may think that they might as well establish themselves in USA.

      --
      Proud patriot and republican voter.
    4. Re:Why the limitation? by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      Sure...it's not like the Army does anything to earn the tax dollar spent on it NOW, is it? Think before you post ;-)

  15. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Bigby · · Score: 2, Funny

    Light signalling morse code

  16. Dare I say it? by ivanmarsh · · Score: 4, Funny

    WAN-mines?

    1. Re:Dare I say it? by BilldaCat · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Data: "I'm setting booty traps."
      Mikey: "Booby traps."
      Data: "That's what I said, I'm setting booby traps."

      --
      BilldaCat
    2. Re:Dare I say it? by DrDebug · · Score: 0

      If I were a smart enough and technically savvy enemy, I would grab one of those things, and rig it with a virus that would work to my advantage.

      I wonder if the military has thought of THAT??

    3. Re:Dare I say it? by FroMan · · Score: 1

      Nope, probably not. You know the average slashdotter is so much more intelligent than some of the best minds working for the US government. I bet they never think of any of these things that everyone here thinks up. That would explain why we have the most unsuccessful military in the world right now.

      Atleast you were not modded insightful, yet...

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
    4. Re:Dare I say it? by brakk · · Score: 0

      IIRC, Data said "booty" both times.

      At least that's the way I quote it.

    5. Re:Dare I say it? by CXI · · Score: 1

      I would grab one of those things, and rig it with a virus that would work to my advantage.

      Yes, because if Hollywood has taught us nothing else, it's that you can take incompatible technology and plug it together, then upload a virus to save the world.

    6. Re:Dare I say it? by FroMan · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the "Atleast you were not modded insightful, yet..." at the end of the post. Next time I'll use the "</sarcasm>" so I am not misunderstood. :-)

      I also figured the remark about "most unsuccessful" military would have been would have been a hint at the sarcasm too.

      Oh-well.

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
    7. Re:Dare I say it? by BilldaCat · · Score: 1

      yeah, he did, I grabbed the quote off the interweb and didn't check it. that'll learn me.

      --
      BilldaCat
  17. Sir, they've jammed our radar! by phaetonic · · Score: 0, Redundant

    *lick* strawberry too...

  18. How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Picture now that these devices are equiped not only with wireless, but also with infrared and motion sensors.

    Slave these to a smart 'expert' system, that creates a 'map' of the area over which they have been spread. Now you can 'see' when anyone intrudes into that area.

    Slave THAT to some artilery (or better yet, a jeep towed high energy rail gun ;) ), and you have just created a mine field that can be abandond without worring about hurting civilians afterwards.

    I wrote a high end overview of such a system for my technical writing class in 1989... As I recall, I got a 'D' for it, because my diagrams were not good enough. Ahh, I wish I could have had Visio back then!

    1. Re:How Interesting by MarcQuadra · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's also a miefield that can be taken out by a sharpshooter from 1KM away. All you'd have to do is shoot these things. I'm pretty sure they're not invisible.

      I think custom-camouflage would be good for this sort of thing. Just drop a bunch of these in individualized 'rock' shells that blend in in Afghanistan, etc.

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    2. Re:How Interesting by cybermace5 · · Score: 1

      And it's also a minefield that can be taken out with radio jamming. You'd have to jam a pretty large area though, or else they can just fire where there is no signal.

      It's also a minefield you can get through by driving through quickly (too much lag between detection and shell impact). Just change directions occasionally so they can't project your location.

      --
      ...
    3. Re:How Interesting by DrDebug · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The guy that thought up the idea of a central state location hub for overnight delivery didn't get a very good grade on his paper either. He just went on and started FedEx.

      Don't get discouraged by narrow-minded instructors.

    4. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

      Oh, it didn't discourage me at all...

      I went on to design some pretty cool OC-48 and OC-192 Internet Backbones :)

      And I still havn't gotten around to going back and getting a degree.... :O

      The other fellow is right about sharpshooters, I had designed my sensors to look like mushrooms or rocks.

      A burrowing mine was also conidered, after I presented my paper. :)

      This type of mine field is also not a Denial of Area system, like you would use with tank mines, it is designed to prevent infiltrators, accross a large area, with the minimum number of people.

    5. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

      the original design used Infrared p2p in a matrix... all the sensors would 'ping' to find the closest sensor, the sensors closest to the main 'brain' of the bunch were connected to the mini-gun/rail gun at the permiter of the base/airfield you are tring to keep infiltrators out of.

      Driving 'fast' through the area was not though to be much of an issue, because at that point, you arn't trying to infiltrate, you have gone from a covert to an overt mode of operation.

      Also, you would use a diffrent type of mine setup to take out cars/jeeps/tanks.

      This one was strictly anti personal.

      Hard to jam, even with radio, however, unless your high powered transmitter is right up on the minefield. And then I can just use radio triagulation to arty your jammer into the ground :)

    6. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not if you can make them cheap enough that you can have considerable overlap in coverage.

      if your maximum p2p range is 500 feet, and you have dropped these sensors every 100 feet, it would take a sharpshooter a LOT of ammo to make a big enough hole in this thing to sneak through... and by then, someone has already noticed that sensors have started malfunctioning in a strange way...

    7. Re:How Interesting by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      How do you make the artilery not blow up the sensors? The enemy could just send a bunch of expendables into the area to do calisthenics until your artilery gratiously destroys your entire array. In most battle the US Army has fought in recent history they have been at a significant numerical disadvantage. None of our enemies would think twice about sending scouts into your minefield to take it out at the cost of their lives.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    8. Re:How Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I went on to design some pretty cool OC-48 and OC-192 Internet Backbones

      You misspelled "I wired my mom's PC so she can use the internetweb".

    9. Re:How Interesting by brakk · · Score: 1

      Kind of like the 3d triangulation devices on Reign of Fire?

    10. Re:How Interesting by ZPO · · Score: 1

      Its already part of the plan. They are generally classified Unattended Ground Sensors (UGS). They then get subclassed into SLUGS/BUGS/MUGS. They can be deployed in various ways and then used to form a sensor fence in an area.

      The networking fits (mostly) the P2P definition. Its actually a MANET (Mobile Ad-Hoc Networking) implementation. Take a look around for the DARPA GloMoSim work or a couple other projects.

      When you get into actual explosive mines you are talking about SMARTAPAT (at least that used to be the name). Same concept except with a boom and less battery. The general idea is that they can be fired out, placed into sense-only mode, and then when the sensors trigger an operator can check the indications and decide whether or not to allow detonation of a single node or blow the whole array. There are several other modes we'll just skip for the moment. The great thing is that they can be deactivated to allow friendly units to manuever through an area and most implementations automatically go into sense-only mode if they lose all links with an element capable of monitoring and commanding them. Add that to GPS derived location data for each unit and you've got an obstacle that is much easier to cleanup up at the end of hostilities.

    11. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1
    12. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

      SUPER COOL!!!!
      How long ago was this implemented. do you know?

      So, how come we never hear about this when the Anti-Military/Anti Mine folks whine about the evils of the Military and its horrible maming of civilians with their EVIL MINES!!!!

      That was sarcasm, as we know text does not route sarcasm well...

    13. Re:How Interesting by Thag · · Score: 1

      Okay, so you're spending an extra $10K for each new node, and he's spending $0.50 for each new bullet. Who's winning now?

      Jon Acheson

      --
      All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
    14. Re:How Interesting by cybermace5 · · Score: 1

      Yeah I hadn't considered the bot gun being right in visible range. And the point about the jammer is pretty valid. Guess EMP is the only way to go!

      --
      ...
    15. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

      That would be with the cell-jammer design, the design for my system put them in the $500 range...

      But I digress...

      As long as the fellow with the rifle is shooting at mines, not at our soldiers, or are planes, or anything else with people in it, I'd say we are winning, for sure.

      As an after though, it should be possible to determine where he is at, based on which sensors he is taking out... call in an air strike or artillery.

      Military types have a healthy faciniation with 'Mission'. Anything else is simply a distraction. Doing it cheaply (from a people perspective) is #1. Cheap from a $$$ perspective is a close 2nd, though.

      It is FAR cheaper (given the procededing logic) to strew $10k 'sensors' all over the place, than it would be to station a couple of hundred guys with the Mark-1 Eyeball out in the dark, making sure bad guys don't sneak onto an air base and take out the bombers...

    16. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

      CRAP MAN!!! If they can EMP it, I think worring about an infilration team is the LEAST of our worries!!!!

      hahahaaaa

      Thanks for the feedback!

    17. Re:How Interesting by PiratePTG · · Score: 1
      > It's also a miefield that can be taken out by a sharpshooter from 1KM away. All you'd have to do is shoot these things.

      Only problem with that idea is that, unless the sharpshooter is using armor-piercing rounds, which are not standard sniper issue, a resonable thickness of simple iron would protect the device's innards... Issued ball ammo, especially from 1KM away, would not have the ability to penetrate, oh, say a .25" thick piece of pipe. If the cannister were made of aluminum, bump it up to .375" and use a harder alloy. It would most likely still be safe unless someone was shooting at it from 25' away...

      --
      The number 1 problem of working in a cubicle - 23 power cords, 1 outlet...
    18. Re:How Interesting by ZPO · · Score: 1

      The SMARTAPAT stuff is all part of the US Army's FCS stuff. It won't be fielded for several years yet.

      I understood the sarcasm. That is exactly why they have been developed. If you look back at Desert Strom a great number of the US casualties were caused by unexploded ICM (Improved Conventional Munitions) bomblets. Killing/Injuring troops with your own unexploded munitions is a bad thing. Killing/injuring noncombatants is even worse. Believe it or not the military is actually very sensitive to that. The use of mines is very tightly controlled.

      (Note that I say noncombatants. It doesn't matter if they are wearing a uniform or not. If they are a threat then they are a combatant. A cute little 12-yr old girl with a mobile phone calling in troop's positions and adjusting artillery fire on them is a combatant. Is it a good thing? - NO! Its the way the real world works however.)

      Mines themselves are a movement obstacle. Their value lies in reducing an ememy's options for manuever. Thats why they are often used to protect a flank or deny travel on a road/trail network. If you want to really chew up an enemy supply convoy then let them get in the middle of a decently sized minefield and then activate it. That will keep them in the zone until you can range artillery or air strikes on them to make sure those supplies don't get where they were headed.

      The use of RF based sensor networks goes back at least as far as Vietnam. Thousands of seismic and audible sensors were dropped along the HoChiMin (sp?) trail network and used to attempt to monitor traffic. There were also seismic sensor packages which could be deployed around firebases and bivouack sites to detect personnel moving in the area. (I don't recall the nomenclature).

    19. Re:How Interesting by cybermace5 · · Score: 1

      I knew some people who were 'aware' of EMP shells under development. The concept involved destructive acceleration of a core through a special shell casing. That's about all I was allowed to find out. Apparently this would be something you could fire from a tank-mounted cannon and detonate above the target area.

      Kind of similar to the railguns that explosively slam the rails together in order to induce a huge current. Interesting stuff though, could really revolutionize high-tech battles.

      --
      ...
    20. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

      Hahahaaaa!!!!
      This is amazingly funny!

      I'm laughing all the way to the bank....

      Thank Ya, Thank Ya Very Much!

    21. Re:How Interesting by Brew+Bird · · Score: 1

      Only one word for that...

      DAMN......

  19. Force Multipliers by Detritus · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you can jam the enemy's communications, they are in deep shit. They can't coordinate movement of units, call for fire support, report contact with the enemy, request resupply, etc.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    1. Re:Force Multipliers by jpmkm · · Score: 1

      I was not aware of that. Russell, were you aware of that?

  20. Moderators on crack by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Funny

    Together, they are cheaper, less like a huge warm cock and a much less obvious target for enemy intervention than the aircraft-based systems used to jam or monitor communications at the moment.

    This is informative?

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    1. Re:Moderators on crack by Kibo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, he's pretty good at that. He's found slashdot's achillies' heel. Short anttention spans and a desire for ever more brief executive summarys.

      --
      --Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
  21. In related news, RIAA to sue US military by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    For taking part in a p2p network! The pirates!

  22. what is it? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 5, Funny
    Officer: "Sir, it appears to be an Imperial probe droid."

    Commander: "That's it, everybody, shut down Kazaa, the RIAA has found our base!"

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  23. Just normal radio? by Mindjiver · · Score: 1

    Will this thing be able to jam networks that use frequency hopping?

    I'm guessing it will since if it didn't it would be pretty useless.

    --
    I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
  24. In Soviet Matrix ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ... Beowulf imagines cluster of YOU!

  25. Re:Slashdotted - here's the article by Jonsey · · Score: 1

    I know the above is an AC, so modding down won't help much... but "Units can stay powered for up to two months in the field, and can be later collected and re-used. Each node costs around $10,000. Together, they are cheaper, less like a huge warm cock and a much less obvious target for enemy intervention than the aircraft-based systems used to jam or monitor communications at the moment." wasn't in any other copy of the article... At least not the warm cock part.

    [if stealsig == true]"They have a cave troll!" "Mod him down!"

    --
    I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
  26. I think I see the problem by vevva · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The countermeasure is surely too straightforward - send a bunch of kids out to collect them.

    Unless they are fitted with antipersonnel devices (looking unlikely given the current trend towards banning cluster munitions) they will make nice souvenirs of the conflict.

    2 days after they are released in the wild we'll be bidding for them on eBay.

    1. Re:I think I see the problem by OfficerNoGun · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure of this. There are many advantages in size in cost. To the US military 10 million is nothing, and that would get them 1000 of these suckers. They're cheap enough that they could be overly redundant. They have an effective radius of half a mile, so just throw down 50 of them in that half mile area. They will not be easy to find. Try finding 40 objects over a square mile. If you find 39, the system still pretty much works. Plus these will probably be for temporary confusion, not long term communication interuption.

    2. Re:I think I see the problem by m0smithslash · · Score: 1
      2 days after they are released in the wild we'll be bidding for them on eBay.

      I think you have hit upon the solution for several of the world problems, create a market for them on eBay. In India, there is a group of people who eat rats. Whenever there is a rot problem, they call these people who are good at catching and getting rid of rats.

      So we could create a war souvenir craze. Get your land mine here, only 10,000,000,000 of them left to go. Get your before they are all gone.

      --
      Your friend and well-wisher
      m0smithslash
      http://www.ferociousflirting.com
    3. Re:I think I see the problem by Luk+Fugl · · Score: 1

      Maybe, except you're forgetting the dimensions:

      6'x4', not 6"x4"

      A 6'x4' metal cylinder is going to be pretty darn heavy. Some determined groups of adults (read 'enemy soldiers') might try and make off with some, but I don't think you'll find many youngsters out collecting them after school.

      Shooting BB guns at them might be an option however...

      Jacob Fugal

  27. Weren't these things used on Hoth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and shouldn't George Lucas sue for copyright infringement?

    Next up, an orbital battlestation with a supercharged laser... oh wait, Reagan already did that one.

  28. Jamming by Goody · · Score: 1

    The nodes can also jam cellular communications by trasmitting a signal themselves.

    And if that doesn't work, the military sends in guys with bucket trucks to install Broadband over Power Line and it jams everything from DC to daylight.

    --
    Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
  29. Re:Slashdotted - here's the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Less like a WHAT? (see penultimate paragraph)

  30. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by gyrojoe · · Score: 2, Funny

    That might work, but what if their optic cables get bent?

  31. Seems like an unfortunate choice of name by mkweise · · Score: 4, Informative

    The term Wolfpack will forever be associated with the Nazi German Kriegsmarine.

    --
    Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
    1. Re:Seems like an unfortunate choice of name by poptones · · Score: 1
      Didn't know that. So what is the connection to that quasi-nudist boy love newsgroup on usenet?

      Wait... lotsa men, close quarters, isolated from the world for weeks at a time...

      Oh, ok.

    2. Re:Seems like an unfortunate choice of name by Detritus · · Score: 2, Informative

      The U.S. Navy used wolfpacks in submarine operations against Japan in the Pacific during World War II.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    3. Re:Seems like an unfortunate choice of name by fred_sanford · · Score: 2, Interesting

      odd, i've always ascoiated it with my alma mater. Never heard of the Nazi connection. I figured it was just a group of like items working together much lick a pack of wolves.

    4. Re:Seems like an unfortunate choice of name by jdunn14 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mmmmm, lick a pack of wolves.

    5. Re:Seems like an unfortunate choice of name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kind of like how the peace symbol was used by Nazis?

  32. Re:Slashdotted - here's the article by krisp · · Score: 1

    It was in Marshall's copy. He is a cock tease.

  33. And now the UWB reference... by poptones · · Score: 2, Interesting
    And this right here is exactly why the military (likely to be joined by other governments) will do all it can to deter deployment of UWB. Once you have an infrastructure that is highly resistant to this sort of jamming, communications becomes nearly impossible to control.

  34. Re:Slashdotted - here's the article by The+Old+Burke · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Your version:
    Units can stay powered for up to two months in the field, and can be later collected and re-used. Each node costs around $10,000. Together, they are cheaper, less like a huge warm cock and a much less obvious target for enemy intervention than the aircraft-based systems used to jam or monitor communications at the moment.

    The Registrers version:

    Units can stay powered for up to two months in the field, and can be later collected and re-used. Each node costs around $10,000. Together, they are cheaper, less obtrusive and a much less obvious target for enemy intervention than the aircraft-based systems used to jam or monitor communications at the moment.
    A slightly different version you've got there Sir.

    --
    Proud patriot and republican voter.
  35. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by chill · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Proprietary frequencies? (non-cellular standard)

    Digital communications with IFF that are ignored by the jammers? Like the pay-per-view stuff -- if your key code is correct, we don't jam you.

    Ultra wideband that doesn't rely on a specifig frequency.

    etc.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  36. Can I meet the man in charge of naming these? by metalhed77 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Seriously, Operation Desert Storm, Tomohawk Missles, and now the Wolf Pack. Can't the army have more consumer friendly names with more pizazz.

    I nominate we rename it the Sniff 'n Shout. Or something in that vein

    --
    Photos.
    1. Re:Can I meet the man in charge of naming these? by Sutekh-Acolyte · · Score: 1

      They could hire Apple's marketing department... but then they'd end up with a name like "iShush" for the device. That's not very intimidating.

    2. Re:Can I meet the man in charge of naming these? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dude, this is the military, not KMart.

    3. Re:Can I meet the man in charge of naming these? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and "No Child Left Behind" are among many that those idiots have thought up.

      But the winner was the legislation that invalidated most of this country's Bill of Rights -- which they rammed through Congress post-9/11 by naming it "The PATRIOT Act".

      Apparently Sen. Byrd (D-WV) was the only one who bothered to read it to see what they had buried in it.

    4. Re:Can I meet the man in charge of naming these? by haystor · · Score: 1

      And they'd come in different flavors like blueberry, tangerine, lime and graphite.

      --
      t
  37. Funny how the US develops technology... by WegianWarrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that seems to be mainly aimed at countering themselfs.

    Wait, don't mod me down just yet; let me elaborate on that. Basicly, you have two situations when in a military conflict: Either you are invading, in which cause you depend on mobile, wireless communication. Or you're defending, and that means most of the time relying on fixed lines of communication (fiberoptic cables buried deep in the ground is a favorite). Now, if you're using fixed lines of communications, you don't have to worry to much about these. Sure, some forms of landlines are radiates energy that can be detected by the 'wolfpack', but I've yet to hear about any armed forces worth it's salt that don't use encryption these days. If you're attacking however, you need to carry your own coms. Most armed forces don't roll in money the way the US forces do, so most forces has to rely on older equipment, like the good old AN/PRC-77. And those can't be affected by a jammer designed to knock out cellular transmittions.

    On the lighter side, how long until the troops use this P2P-network to share violent videos and hard porn?

    --
    Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
    1. Re:Funny how the US develops technology... by Detritus · · Score: 1

      A defense that is incapable of maneuver is next to useless.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:Funny how the US develops technology... by E-Rock · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's all good and well, except that the first thing you do when you invade is destroy those fixed lines of communication. Even if these fixed lines are made impregnable, commands to the field still need to be transmitted to mobile units. I also wouldn't assume that the full details of what these units can do was laid out in the very brief news article.

    3. Re:Funny how the US develops technology... by awtbfb · · Score: 1


      ...that seems to be mainly aimed at countering themselfs ... If you're attacking however, you need to carry your own coms.

      This would be effective if you were the second invader (aka liberator). The US has a past history of such actions.

    4. Re:Funny how the US develops technology... by brakk · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the point. What they're designed for is to drop behind enemy lines to setup a network on land you don't control.

      They aren't going to let you in to wire a network, and if you start driving up with your 802.11 equipped hummer, you better be attacking, because you kinda stick out.

    5. Re:Funny how the US develops technology... by henben · · Score: 1
      Technology ...that seems to be mainly aimed at countering themselfs???

      Wouldn't this be handy against a hidden enemy relying on cell or satellite phones to communicate? A bit like, say, Al Quaida?

    6. Re:Funny how the US develops technology... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ChechClear.asf ^_^

    7. Re:Funny how the US develops technology... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Or you're defending, and that means most of the time relying on fixed lines of communication (fiberoptic cables buried deep in the ground is a favorite).

      Which is why in WWII, Korea, Panama, Grenada, GW I, and GW II the armed forces went to extreme lengths to destroy the fixed communications infrastructure (which is not invulnerable), and force the enemy to use radios, which are both more easily monitored and jammable. (You really think the military doesn't think of these
      things? Think again.)
      Sure, some forms of landlines are radiates energy that can be detected by the 'wolfpack', but I've yet to hear about any armed forces worth it's salt that don't use encryption these days.

      Something else the military knows; Knowing who is talking to who is equally as valuable, if not more, than knowing what they are saying. If a little used channel starts being filled with messages, somethings up, likely an operation. If all of the sudden one site starts transmitting, it's a command post (especially if lots of other folks are talking back), and it's worth killing. More German submarines were sunk in WWII by simply triangulating their transmissions than by breaking their messages.

      There's a lot to using an enemies communications against him that just reading the messages.
  38. This Just In: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the rest of today's stories will also come straight from The Register

  39. More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Why is it that the people in uniform are ignored when they ask for some practical things like a newer fleet of air refueling tankers to replace the ageing fleet they have that is almost 40 years old, and they have to get tech toys that honestly would be useful only in urban battles in a first or second world nation, and not places like Afghanistan and the Iraqi desert? How would this have helped our people in Somalia? What about Yugoslavia? Even if we start in on a new country, it is likely to be Syria or Iran or N. Korea. If all this thing does is post a listening device and jam the signals, we have had that ability for the last 60 years.

    This looks like the results of a flashy bid for government dollars through a beurocratic bid system the values WOW glitz as higher than good ole useful application.

    1. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by WegianWarrior · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Working in the norwegian armed forces myself - who has been trying to tell our politicans that a) running a defence costs money, b) doing a lot of operations overseas costs more, and c) we could really need more and newer fighters, preferable by 1997, and some new tanks, rifles, chemical protection suits and naval ships wouldn't be out of the way - I would say this has a simple reason.

      Buying 'more of the same' just ain't sexy enought.

      Nor does it look impressive. Telling your mistress that you signed a deal for a score of flying gasstation is not as cool as telling her you just signed a goverment contract to develop an airportable selfdeploying P2P network with cellular jamming capability.

      That, and we most not forget that the arnament industry in the western world is technologydriven. The defenceindustry comes up with something new and sexy, and off course the top brass goes along with it (see above for why). In the old eastern block, things worked (well, barly worked, but thats another matter) differently. The military went to the industry and said 'this is what we need, you have two years to come up with a solution'. Worked much better, at least as far as maintaining capabilities goes. A bit less so if your focus is on developing new capabilities thought...

      --
      Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
    2. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by Eric+Ass+Raymond · · Score: 3, Funny

      It will help us to fight off the inevitable alien invasion. Why do you think there is constant push for higher and higher tech weaponry even when the rest of the world has dropped way behind in weapons technology and R&D? It's 2012, man. That's when the fate of the mankind will be decided and we're gonna need every weapon the US military can devise.

    3. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by bravehamster · · Score: 3, Informative
      The defenceindustry comes up with something new and sexy, and off course the top brass goes along with it


      Damn man, I thought I was cynical about the leadership during my time in service, but you take the cake. The *primary* concern of the majority of the people at the top is, and always has been, "Will this save our troops lives and/or kill more of the enemy?" Every other consideration comes after that, and if you think otherwise you're insulting the hell out of a lot of people who care deeply about the lives of the men under their command. Granted, there may be the occassional officer who thinks nothing of the lives under him, but these are a rarity.

      American troops are constantly told that they are the best equipped, most highly trained military force on the planet. Making sure that it's true is a big chunk of military morale, and is official policy. Having that equipment be "sexy" also helps with morale. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems, certainly not as simple as developing sexy military equipment to impress one's mistress.

      Give the brass *some* credit for not being total dipshits.

      --
      ---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
    4. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How would this have helped our people in Somalia?

      As I recall, the mission in question was spotted and called in by a kid with a cell phone. Why do you assume that only people in the US and Europe have mobiles? It's not necessary for every citizen to have one for the military / drug dealers / warlords / terrorists / corporate executives / movie producers / RIAA to have them. Do you really think there are no mobile phones in Syria or Iran or North Korea -- and even if there weren't, that there wouldn't be in the future?

      If all this thing does is post a listening device and jam the signals, we have had that ability for the last 60 years.

      Not using a 6" x 4" cylinder that can be deployed to a specific area in seconds from artillery tubes or missiles. I doubt the bad guys will let the military in long enough to construct a lot of ordinary cell towers and give them access to the CO so that they can patch into the network.

    5. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by WegianWarrior · · Score: 1

      Oh well... I take it you was what we refer to as an 'indian'? In other word, a common soldier? Things looks different in differnt armed forces son, and they sure looks different when you got some stuff on your shoulders like I do. So no, I don't really give the top brass - most of which are civilian politicans anyway - much credit.

      As for your second paragraph.. beeing told something is not the same as it beeing true. True, the avrage US soldier carry more and newer equipment than most other soldiers... they train more (but not necesarely better), but equipment and training isn't everything. I've seen the 'wegian homeguards sweep the floor with the US marines, just because they knew the terrain and dared do stuff that the US brass thought impossible... I've seen big, beefy, sexy F-15 get shot down in simulated combat by F-5A's...

      --
      Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
    6. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by corbettw · · Score: 1

      But I thought we were supposed to welcome our new overlords?

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    7. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by bravehamster · · Score: 1

      Well no, I wasn't a common soldier, but I didn't get very high in the office corps either due to an unfortunate training incident involving my foot, a boat propellor and the meeting of the two. I see where you're coming from though, and I think the problem lies in our differing definitions of "top brass". When I hear that, I think the top non-civilian leadership. For the civilian leadership, they definitely deserve a lot of the criticism you're throwing around. It's pretty easy to tell when a piece of equipment was pushed through by a civilian trying to score a contract for his home state and when it was pushed through by a Marine general with 38 years in service. I just don't think you should paint them both with the same stroke.

      As for the second part...I agree completely. My father (a US Marine) did winter training in Norway as a 2nd Lt, and always told me the lessons he learned there about knowing the terrain and the environment stuck with him throughout his career. So kudos to you 'wegians for teaching the Marines a lesson and making them even better.

      --
      ---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
    8. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by WegianWarrior · · Score: 1

      Ah, so basicly we agree, but use some words differently. Thats cool with me. And I'm truely am sorry to hear you had an accident which stopped your carreer - as far as I'm conserned, I can't think of a better place to work, even thought the people in charge are a bunch of idiots.

      --
      Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
    9. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "chemical protection suits and naval ships"

      That's as opposed to aeronautical ships?

    10. Re:More questionable govt garbage (Pork?) by OECD · · Score: 1

      Telling your mistress that you signed a deal for a score of flying gasstation is not as cool as telling her you just signed a goverment contract to develop an airportable selfdeploying P2P network with cellular jamming capability.

      Does that really impress Norweigan women? 'Cause, if it does, I'll be on the next SAS flight.

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  40. oh oh I want to see the IRAA fight that by acegik · · Score: 1

    "launched by missile or dropped from aircraft"

    I wonder if they support only mp3 or also other kind of files. And what about anonymty? Firewalls? Just kidding - nice to see the p2p effecting other areas.
  41. SMS? by Jippy_ · · Score: 0

    The nodes can also jam cellular communications

    Terrorist1: "R U going 2 b at the meeting 2nite?"
    Terrorist2: "No I hav 2 complete mission"
    Terrorist1: "Plz brng back heads of infidels"
    Terrorist2: "Suicide mission. I not b back"
    Terrorist1: "I wsh u luck"
    Terrorist2: "Allah Akbar!"

    1. Re:SMS? by boresicle · · Score: 0

      Line 3 should have have a :) and Line 4 should have had a :P.

  42. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by chill · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I forgot the painfully obvious one...

    The devices themselves are used as comm nodes for the U.S. military. They could forward encrypted, digital communications through the network they create.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  43. Rat Pack by Gefiltefish11 · · Score: 3, Funny


    ...The direct predecessor to the Wolf Pack system, entitled Rat Pack, was such a high-profile failure that the entire program was nearly scrapped. The Rat Pack system utilized a similar deployment methodology and communicated via high-profile meetings in Las Vegas lounges, overly-dramatic publicity stunts, and awful movies. Further problems with the Rat pack systems were encountered when the missle-deployment system could not function without shattering a glass eye that was critical to Rat Pack's functioning...

  44. Wow, I like it! by SharpFang · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just let them "bomb" you, pick it, hack it and have a cool wireless p2p box. Imagine porting Kazaa to these! :)

    Seriously, remembering times from IIWW when in occupied Warsaw people commonly made grenades from dud bombs, that thing with some technology applied, could provide great means of communication network for the enemy :)

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    1. Re:Wow, I like it! by R33MSpec · · Score: 1

      Sorry to be a party pooper but making grenades out of dud bombs and hacking to have a wireless p2p box hardly has the same level of difficulty for the average citizen :)

  45. Just wait until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    The RIAA hears of this, the US military is going to get sooo sued...

  46. Re:Guess they've figured out how.... by temojen · · Score: 1
  47. I wonder... by SharpFang · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They drop these. You pick them. They win the war, conquer your country and then sue you for stealing US government property. Sounds probably, doesn't it?

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    1. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They drop these. You pick them. They win the war, conquer your country and then sue you for stealing US government property. Sounds probably, doesn't it?

      No.

  48. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would be silly, dropping comm nodes into enemy territory, where anyone can pick up and intercept US communications.

  49. Warm and fuzzy by kfx · · Score: 1

    Nothing like licking a radar dome to give you that warm, fuzzy, freshly microwaved feeling.

  50. 5th Element Cockroach by Talia+Starhawke · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This reminds me of when, from the movie The Fifth Element, Zorg's main lackey was using a remote-controlled cockroach to listen in on the President's "secret plan" to send Bruce Willis to meet the Diva Plavalaguna on Planet Fhloston to get the stones and save the world...anyway, the President grabs a shoe and squishes the cockroach, sending a squeal of feedback into the lackey's ears, and sending waves of giggles into the audience... I wonder if, since these are so "secret", if it won't be the same type of situation. They'll be found, dismantled, and disposed of. It was just a thought...

    --
    +5, Female ;)
    1. Re:5th Element Cockroach by Dstrct0 · · Score: 1

      FYI...

      The president's main lackey is the artist better known as Tricky

      Just makes the movie that much cooler :)

      --
      Build boards not bombs
    2. Re:5th Element Cockroach by chenGOD · · Score: 1

      Tricky was not the President's lackey, he was Zorg's (Gary Oldman).

      just a friendly reminder.

    3. Re:5th Element Cockroach by Talia+Starhawke · · Score: 1

      Nice! I don't think they ever say his name, and the IMDB link that I gave didn't give me any pictures, so I wasn't sure if that was him or not.

      --
      +5, Female ;)
    4. Re:5th Element Cockroach by Dstrct0 · · Score: 1

      Oh man...

      I dropped the ball on that one :)

      I knew I shoulda previewed that post first!

      --
      Build boards not bombs
  51. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Suidae · · Score: 2, Insightful

    those nodes probably wouldn't even have the capability to decode the signals they would be relaying, the would probably not be useful for determining what the message contained.

  52. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smoke signals.

  53. smart dust by wannasleep · · Score: 5, Interesting

    this seems the complement of the smart dust .
    The smart dust was supposed to be a 1 cube mm sensor with some computational power that was also supposed to transmit signals. I also recall that it was supposed to cost very few $ (one?). Clearly, you do not need parachutes for it and you can just deploy thousands on the battlefield or whatever you want to spy on. I don't know if these can send such a strong signal, but I believe that if you deploy enough of them you could. And being much smaller and many thousands, they would be much harder to get rid of. However, I haven't heard of smart dust in a while. Maybe they have perfected it and started using it. Or maybe the project just died.

    1. Re:smart dust by !Freeky2BGeeky · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Perhaps the large devices mentioned in the article are annouced as a feint to the real devices (smart dust). Picture the enemy finding all these deployed (large) devices in the field and shooting them or stealing them but missing the real comm devices.

      Not to say that the larger units are fakes, no reason to deploy something that doesn't work. But if the enemy thinks it has all the large devices accounted for, then it wont go looking for something smaller that might be doing the work too.

      --

      Visualize Whirled Peas

  54. Re:Does it run Linux? (Grammar nazi) by r00zky · · Score: 1

    You mispelled extortion

    --
    I'm a chainsmokin' alcoholic sociopath, so-ci-o-path
  55. If Corporations Were in Charge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple: The iJam - It's not very effective, but it comes in this neat translucent blue shell

    Microsoft: Wolfpack powered by Windows - Never worked, kept crashing.

    Linux: Linpack - Worked fine, but nodes kept disappearing, in their place were notes saying something about "Beowulf Clusters"

    GNU/Linux: GNU/Linpack - Same as Linpack, but with a picture of Richard Stallman on the front

    RIAA: Broadcasts a signal on every node that says "What the fuck do you think you're doing" in seven different languages.

    Verizon: Kept calling attention to itself when it kept broadcasting "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?"

    1. Re:If Corporations Were in Charge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100% unfunny

  56. P2P - The new revolution by m0smithslash · · Score: 1

    Here at work we were just warned of the horror that is P2P. My boss' boss' boss was telling us that he would never allow a P2P program on his computer and that running one here at work was grounds for termination. Of course, he was only referring to music swapping. But in his mind, the two are inseparately connected. This is common in the "real" world ( and I don't mean the "reality?" series ).

    P2P is set to be to the internet what the internet was to whatever was before it :). Imagine devices like cell phones which we carry with us at all times running P2P with all other portable devices. Add to that GPS technology and now you have an internet, or more precisely, the next generation internet that can interact more closely with reality. No longer do the cyber world and the real world need to be different places.

    How will this be used? Using the cell phones and GPS, the P2P network can compute real-time traffic contiditions based on the speed of the cell phone and route the driver in route. No expensie infrastructure is needed.

    How about having your cell phone interact with people in close proximity to you. Maybe at a sporting event or some other. What would it do? Only time will tell.

    By having the network not only to other computers but also to the person via the phone and physical location via GPS, the network will become much more useful and timely than anything we have ever seen before. Maybe it could be used for defence even.

    --
    Your friend and well-wisher
    m0smithslash
    http://www.ferociousflirting.com
    1. Re:P2P - The new revolution by corbettw · · Score: 1

      "Here at work we were just warned of the horror that is P2P. My boss' boss' boss was telling us that he would never allow a P2P program on his computer and that running one here at work was grounds for termination. Of course, he was only referring to music swapping. But in his mind, the two are inseparately connected. This is common in the "real" world ( and I don't mean the "reality?" series )."

      You should explain to him, then, that Windows file shares are, basically, a P2P network. Ask him if opening Windows shares on work computers is grounds for termination.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    2. Re:P2P - The new revolution by m0smithslash · · Score: 1

      He is actually more worried about the company being sued by the RIAA for pirating MP3s. We have already been given notice a couple of time, but that is for a later rant.

      --
      Your friend and well-wisher
      m0smithslash
      http://www.ferociousflirting.com
  57. What was that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There was a story "windowsupdate.com falls on sword" it was up for a few seconds and then boom it was gone...

    1. Re:What was that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I saw it too.
      I saved the "Read more" link.
      The link lead to a page that said There is nothing to see here. Move along.
      Now it is just a link to the future story.

      http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/15/1730 20 0&mode=thread&tid=109&tid=126&tid=172&tid= 187

  58. you people are such idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  59. Ethel Merman jams Russian radar. by Yanray · · Score: 1

    When asked for a reply,"What the hell was that."

    --
    --"Sorry for the inconvience." Gods Last Words to his Creation
    DNA, So Long and Thanks for all the Fish
  60. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by luzrek · · Score: 1

    My point isn't that the US Military devices won't screw up US military communications, but that the US military has come up with a mechanism to deal with this if someone else has similar devices.

    --

    Galium Arsenide is the material of the future, and always will be.

  61. Sniff This, Wolfpack: +1, Patriotic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    While you Slasdot lozers drool over the military-industrial complex, Ventriloquist Dick Cheney's latest creation continues
    to deceive people.

    Thanks and have a marijuana-inspired day,
    W00t

  62. groovy by Biomechanoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    The nodes can also jam

    I was going to buy their music but after listening to it I think I will download it from KazAa in stead.

  63. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Schrom_Everblister · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't satellite communications be immune?

  64. funny but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While a humorous post, you wrote that with way too much detail and excitement.

    You need to go OUTSIDE and get a life.

    1. Re:funny but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I'm telneting to [insert obscure country here] as we speak!

    2. Re:funny but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      words of wisdom, from the AC who obviously has a life. Obviously.

  65. Groom Lake - 90 miles North of Las Vegas, NV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Picture now that these devices are equiped not only with wireless, but also with infrared and motion sensors.

    Slave these to a smart 'expert' system, that creates a 'map' of the area over which they have been spread. Now you can 'see' when anyone intrudes into that area.

    Slave THAT to some artilery (or better yet, a jeep towed high energy rail gun ;) ), and you have just created a mine field that can be abandond without worring about hurting civilians afterwards."



    You, sir, have obviously never been to Area 51.

  66. Not for foreign wars... by Mr.Sharpy · · Score: 1

    This kind of device is not made for foreign wars if you ask me. It seems tailor made for countering the kinds of things we (individuals, not the government) would use for countering communication of resistence right here if we needed to. That might sound paranoid and crazy, but looking at all the things the military is doing, it would appear they are getting things ready to fight here more than anywhere else.

    When you conquer and put to rest all the external enemies, the greatest threat to your empire is its own people.

    1. Re:Not for foreign wars... by TopShelf · · Score: 1

      Yes, that does sound paranoid and crazy!

      On the other hand, when you look at the many portions of the 3rd world that are looking to bypass ground lines and build their telephone infrastructure around cells instead, this looks like a way to prepare for future battlegrounds in Africa and Asia.

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
  67. Re:6' by 4' Self-righting Metal Can Snooper by NetFusion · · Score: 1

    A cluster of oscar the grouches came to mind.

  68. sounds nifty, but... by Kennycat · · Score: 0

    The way I'm reading the article, it seems as if the devices can either transmit a signal that jams mobile communications or monitor them.
    So if we start jamming all battlefield communications (I guess they're talking about RF transmissions) then how do the devices talk to each other?
    I mean, are they linked by physical wires or something?
    If these devices use RF transmissions to communicate with each other and then jam RF transmissions, then won't they also jam each other and break their own network?
    In order for a system like this to work it sounds like the devices have to communicate wirelessly, so what's to prevent an enemy from learning what freqs are used by the P2P system and then running their own coms on those freqs?
    Or better yet, just jam those coms so that the individual devices won't be able to link up.
    Oh,
    and by the way,
    Sniffer is a registered trademark of Network Associates Inc.

  69. fyi by Robocrap · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Once the node lands, it stands up, extends its antenna and contacts other nodes."

    This just in: The Russians have developed nodes that land next to nodes already present on the battlefield, stand up, extend their antennae, and contact other nodes with information about hostile nodes on the battlefield.

    This just in: Americans have developed nodes that land next to Russian nodes that have landed next to their nodes. These American nodes, upon landing, stand up, extend their antennae, and contact other nodes with information about hostile nodes on the battlefield that have landed next to nodes meant to have disrupted the communications networks of the hostile force.

  70. Bargain? by Dukael_Mikakis · · Score: 1

    Yeah, it's a bargain until the hostiles discover this device and then use it on us. Wait, maybe the DoD's secret is that it requires a particular sort of battery. Or maybe these countries presumably wouldn't have the technology to missile it into our territory.

    Or maybe, as a previous post said, there must be some manner in which the DoD can combat this, as they have released the specs for it.

    Could it be that the DoD has an entirely new form of communication that is (presently) immune to the jamming techniques that this thing uses? Is the DoD going back to using smoke signals?

  71. Setup for Wireless Robots by Jackassreefer · · Score: 1

    Seems to me this is a decent setup to deploy wireless robots in the battle field, with the added bonus of jamming other communication signals.

  72. Size & Mass by yardgnome · · Score: 2, Informative

    Did anyone else connect the reported dimensions with the reported mass? It's supposed to be a 6" tall x 4" wide cylinder...that weighs SIX POUNDS. That's incredibly tightly packed! Which I guess makes sense if you're going to fit a balloon antenna, motors for standing up via the fins, and a CPU in that small package. I wonder if/when the public will reap the benefits of that kind of miniaturization?

    --
    4-star general in a one-man army.
    1. Re:Size & Mass by TheSync · · Score: 1

      I bet 90% of the six pounds is the battery that lasts for a month.

    2. Re:Size & Mass by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Did anyone else connect the reported dimensions with the reported mass? It's supposed to be a 6" tall x 4" wide cylinder...that weighs SIX POUNDS. That's incredibly tightly packed! Which I guess makes sense if you're going to fit a balloon antenna, motors for standing up via the fins, and a CPU in that small package. I wonder if/when the public will reap the benefits of that kind of miniaturization?
      The public has been reaping those benifits for years. Go check out any cell phone, PDA, or laptop manufactured in the last five years or so.
    3. Re:Size & Mass by yardgnome · · Score: 1

      Your laptop might be mighty compact, but it's still an awful lot larger than 6"x4". And it can't survive being dropped from a plane.

      --
      4-star general in a one-man army.
  73. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by gregoryb · · Score: 4, Funny

    If someone else has similar jamming devices, doesn't the military's "workaround" involve pinpointing the device and then hitting it with a missle??

    Seems that they dealt with the GPS jammers Iraq was using by following this method in the past war. I've been unable to find references for that particular action, but I seem to remember discussing it in my signals class last spring.

  74. Damn them by xantor9 · · Score: 1

    It's occurred to me that lately the US has been developping such a large ammount of high tech waeponary that it will come impossible for other nations or countrys to counter them. At one point the US will become so powerfull (space shield, small a-bombs and such) that they will be able to set the entire globa at their feet. I think it's about time that other nations started doing something about this.

    1. Re:Damn them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. I would suspect "cower in fear" and "pee yourself" would be valid options if that scenario does indeed come true.

      Course, the world could look to France for leadership in that capacity. :)

    2. Re:Damn them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you forgot: best power grid in the world.

    3. Re:Damn them by corbettw · · Score: 1

      Actually, that's the situation today. The US could go to war with the entire planet, and there's fuckall anyone could do to stop us. Be very grateful Americans aren't the warmongering fascists most people think we are (I know I am).

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    4. Re:Damn them by mamba-mamba · · Score: 1

      Well, it depends what you mean about going to war with the entire planet. Of course the US could destroy every nation with nuclear weapons. But that serves no purpose.

      In conventional war, the US could never take over the world. Can you imagine trying to occupy China? How about India?

      And of course there are countries such as Switzerland which A) really value their sovereignty, and B) are armed to the teeth.

      --
      By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
  75. cost very few $ (one?) by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    Note in military environment it's not that much.
    Assume a typical new generation guided missile is about $1mln. A million pieces of the "dust" could cost maybe a bit more. Reasonably assuming communication range about 2m you can drop it with 1m spread and maintain communication between almost all of them. That's 50m wide, 2km long stripe of ground (and not only ground. Treetops and such too) monitored in such a way that nobody could pass unnoticed or alive. Now hook this to a few robotised machineguns and rocket launchers and you get a barrier nobody could pass through, no matter what. Except maybe switching a part of it off from the command center, i.e. to let allied troops through...
    Sounds cheaper and more effective than common missiles.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  76. WTF? by RoadWarriorX · · Score: 1
    Each device, which runs on battery, should last approximately two months. When possible, devices can be recovered and reused. The cost of each is estimated at $10,000.


    $10,000!?! That thing better support popular P2P formats like gnutella. ;-)

  77. because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As an Army soldier myself, the first thing that comes to mind is that if these were sold to the civilian sector, it would be just as effective as handing these devices over to the battlefield enemies.

    Also, as an infantry guy, I want to have as much advantage when my ass it out there. I want to disrupt their communications and information services as much as possible. If their APCs and shit can't talk, it makes it alot easier for me and my team to slip through, and move on to our objective.

    While the apparent commoditization of military hardware makes it cheap for the US to produce weapons/systems/etc, the military usually waits until the civilian sector reaches the level of the military, and then leverages THEM. We see this predominantly with the Navy/Air Force's JDAM technology. The civilian space made GPS trancivers and electronics cheap (though yes, based from military work). This allowed the development of really cheap precision guided weapons.

    Anyway, back to my point. As a soldier, I want to have every advantage out there. Communications and denial of information is ever more critical. I want my comm systems working, and theirs not. By NOT releasing this technology for the sake of consumer convenience, I deny the enemy from figuring out just how we jam their infrastructure. Trading that public beneft for my comm/info system being far more superior than the enemy's for a longer period of time is a VERY GOOD THING.

    For me, personally and organizationally, those extra tax dollars that could be generated from licensing pale in comparison to the tactical advantages of keeping these device's specs secrect... at least until these specs are stolen, or otherwise made public.

    You don't want cellphones to work in restaurants or theaters, I don't want the bad guys passing along information as to where I am. You would give up convenience, I would give up something far greater.

  78. Well, cmon, what do you expect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The U.S. military have always been war driving.

    *groan*

  79. easy... by matt4077 · · Score: 1

    they patented them, and wolfpack is certainly a registered trademark.

  80. +1/-1 Paranoid by LilJC · · Score: 1
    WolfPack prototypes will be put to the test with in the next 18 months, the DoD said.

    Wonderful news for those of us living in the US.

    Maybe I am being paranoid, I mean, the US government does need probably cause to eavesdrop on its citizens (mod -1 paranoid)...wait, Patriot act....I guess we are going to be the test subjects! (mod +1 paranoid)

    If pro is the opposite of con, what's the opposite of congress?

    --

    The only thing more dangerous than a file named -rf is renaming it -rf\ /
  81. I've seen this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds a lot like this:
    http://rajant.net/page2.html

  82. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by yorkrj · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't satellite communications be immune? ...not from a jamming signal originating from the local area.

  83. armed forces worth it's salt by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    but I've yet to hear about any armed forces worth it's salt that don't use encryption these days.

    Hear about Chechenyans :) They've been succesfully opposing Russian army for quite a few years now and they commonly use standard unencrypted FM radios to communicate :) They are cheap, they are available, they are effective. And saved money could buy them more weapons...

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  84. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by leonardluen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    yes, but if you had access to one couldn't you use it to send your own encrypted message accross the network they create? then the jamming they do to your other signals won't really mean much. though the military would probably then intercept your own encrypted message.

    but a few sparse well placed messages cannot easily be unencrypted in a timely fashion to be useful to the party trying to decode it, especially if you continually change your encryption methods.

  85. I'd steal em by photon317 · · Score: 5, Funny
    Units can stay powered for up to two months in the field, and can be later collected and re-used. Each node costs around $10,000.


    If I were a low-income thug and the US military invaded my country and sprayed the land with these things, I would probably run around and pick them up for resale. They start at 6x4 inches, but then they extend fins and an inflatable antenna, which should make them pretty easy targets to spot. And I bet to foreign military hands, they're worth more than the $10K they cost the US military. All things considered I could probably feed my family for 10 years by picking up 5 of them or so and selling them on the black market.
    --
    11*43+456^2
    1. Re:I'd steal em by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      Go ahead.

      If they were smart they would make an anti personnel mine that looked identical to a node.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    2. Re:I'd steal em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mines were banned by international treaties retard!
      Yes, some countries still use them but not the US.
      Get your head out of your ass before you speak.

    3. Re:I'd steal em by Bitter+Cup+O+Joe · · Score: 1

      What, are you on crack? We still use them damn near everywhere we're deployed.

      --
      "This is your world. These are your people. You can live for yourself today, or help build tomorrow for everyone."
    4. Re:I'd steal em by gatkinso · · Score: 1


      I must have been hallucinating during my 6 years in the United States Marine Corps.

      The US did not sign that treaty. Nor did China, or Russia.

      Your idiocy is only surpassed by your naivete. Goddamn you are stupid.

      http://www.icbl.org/ratification/
      http://www.ic bl.org/treaty/nonsign.php3

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  86. the motivation for the puzzle of the colored hats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the logistics associated with networking and deployment of air dropped nodes in battle scenarios would be a fitting origin of the colored hats puzzle:

    http://www.ics.uci.edu/~ebert/teaching/spring200 1/ ics151/puzzles.html

  87. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

    My point isn't that the US Military devices won't screw up US military communications, but that the US military has come up with a mechanism to deal with this if someone else has similar devices.

    I thought that the point was that nobody we're likely to fight uses this stuff.

    --
    "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  88. But can they develop a power station ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    i hear large parts of USA need a few

    unlike this device

    good to see you got your priorities right, enjoy those tax cuts !

  89. igloo white by tycheung · · Score: 1

    ahhh, the modern digital version of Igloo White. Seems like the military has taken an interest in the survivability of P2P networks...

  90. The art of naming military operations. by The+Old+Burke · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Operation Desert Storm

    There are numerous articles on this subject, and the Army acyually uses special guidelines when they name operations.
    A liutenant Sieminski wrote a article about this (do some googling).
    At the end of his article, Sieminski offers four guidelines for naming operations in the future.

    1. Make it meaningful.

    2. Identify and target the critical audience.

    3. Be cautious of fashions.

    4. Make it memorable.

    Operation Desert Storm was a good name but Operation Iraqi Freedom was even better. The names are altered to fot to the public whom would not accept war unless its sounds "meaningfull".

    Personally i liked the Operatin Just Cause (Panama) because of the noble sound it gives, and I think it added something to the justification of he war.
    The last operations in Iraq was initially called "Operation Desert Freedom" and later "Operation Infinite Justice". I love the last one as i think it reflects the way the US Military should fight. After that someone wanted to call it "Operation Iraqi liberation" but for some reason they abadonded that. I think this was a good thing as the word "liberation" is a reference to a french word.

    I like Sieminski as he has nailed the whole point of naming wars in a special way for the cause of getting the public to accept a war that will beneft the nation:

    "an effectively nicknamed operation, an outcome that can help win the war of images. In that war, the operation name is the first--and quite possibly the decisive--bullet to be fired. Mold and aim it with care."

    In a perfect world this would not be neccesary, but as long as the public is so relluctant to wars in general this is a good way to convince them to fight for the country in wars that are neccesary but hard to understand ordinary non-educated workers.

    --
    Proud patriot and republican voter.
    1. Re:The art of naming military operations. by NightHwk1 · · Score: 1

      I think they killed the idea to name it "Operation Iraqi Liberation" because of the resulting acronym.

    2. Re:The art of naming military operations. by 2short · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know you're probably just trolling, but what the hell:

      "someone wanted to call it "Operation Iraqi liberation" but for some reason they abadonded that"

      It was a little too meaningful. It spells OIL.

      "I think this was a good thing as the word "liberation" is a reference to a french word."
      Along with alot of our language; notably "Operation".

      "In a perfect world this would not be neccesary, but as long as the public is so relluctant to wars in general this is a good way to convince them to fight for the country in wars that are neccesary but hard to understand ordinary non-educated workers."

      Lying to them works well too. In fact, both techniques work equally well regardless of whether the war is necessary. Anyway, it's sure a good thing we have these smart people deciding whether a war is necessary, then selling it to the people by any means possible. I mean, if they just presented the actual facts and let people make up their own minds, the people might think they lived in a democracy or something.

      And while we're at it, I suspect even most of the "ordinary non-educated workers" you think ought to be led about like sheep could demonstrate a better grasp of basic gramar that you did in that last sentence.

      "Proud Patriot and Republican voter"

      Why do I suspect this means "Blind Follower and Blind Follower"? I'm a proud patriot, which I think compels me to look more deeply at candidates than their party affiliation. I even voted for a Republican once.

    3. Re:The art of naming military operations. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOOOOOOOOOL, OMG I so wish I hadn't wasted my mod points on that stupid other article.

    4. Re:The art of naming military operations. by gangien · · Score: 1
      I know you're probably just trolling, but what the hell:


      I dont' see how his post was anywhere near a troll. He said his ideas and thoughts on the matter.

      Lying to them works well too. In fact, both techniques work equally well regardless of whether the war is necessary. Anyway, it's sure a good thing we have these smart people deciding whether a war is necessary, then selling it to the people by any means possible. I mean, if they just presented the actual facts and let people make up their own minds, the people might think they lived in a democracy or something.

      Maybe that's why we're more of a repblic than a democracy. I don't see what facts they haven't presented, they've told us of the reasons they wanted to go to war. Whether you think they are valid or not is another comment and not relevant to this discussion.

      A side note, if you were president and you felt very strongly that going to war was teh right thing to do and most of the people who knew what you know agree with you, would you not do it just because the people, whom don't have all the intelligence you do, decide it's not worth it.

      And while we're at it, I suspect even most of the "ordinary non-educated workers" you think ought to be led about like sheep could demonstrate a better grasp of basic gramar that you did in that last sentence


      Ahh yes resort to name calling/making fun of. But on your note, I think you are mistaken. Educated or not, proper grammer is a hard subject to perfect, and why one would expect proper grammer in a forum like this, i dunno. But he was certainly understandable, so IMO you are nitpicking.

      And yes there is a point where people should be led. You wouldn't want people deciding what software to use on your server, would you? You may try and accomodate them, but you wouldn't put some buggy and very exploitable piece of crap on there, just because they wanted it, would you? If you would well.. you'd give the people what they want but you should be fired.

      "Proud Patriot and Republican voter"


      You suspect it means blind follower and blind follower? hrm I'm both as well but hardly am blind. In fact i am very critical of all opinions stances when it comes to national ideas. As everyone should be, but most people seem to just vote republic or democrat because taht's what they consider themselves for some reason. personally I wouldn't mind gettign rid of parties all together.
    5. Re:The art of naming military operations. by 2short · · Score: 1


      Maybe he wasn't trolling; and I was certainly nit-picking about his grammar, but only to make a point. It was the "ordinary non-educated workers" that really set me off. Why didn't he just go ahead and say "proles"?

      "A side note, if you were president and you felt very strongly that going to war was teh right thing to do and most of the people who knew what you know agree with you, would you not do it just because the people, whom don't have all the intelligence you do, decide it's not worth it."

      I expect in that situation, I would try to convince the people. I can accept that the President might have intelligence that he cannot share with everyone. In that case I expect him to say "I have seen evidence that X is the case. I have looked into it thouroughly. Even though I can't show you the evidence, I will stake my reputation and sacred honor on the fact that X is the case, becasue I have confirmed it with all the surety one must before asking people to lay down their lives because of it." If the President says something like that, I will accept it. And I will hold him to it. Our president said things like that. And X is not the case. So I will hold him to it, and conclude that he is either a liar, or no where near sufficiently dilligent where the lives of our service people are concerned.

      "And yes there is a point where people should be led. You wouldn't want people deciding what software to use on your server, would you?"

      That's a bit out of left field. I'll decide what to put on my server thank you. And we should decide whether to commit our country to war. We will do it though our elected representatives, certainly, but that doesn't mean I won't expect those representatives to provide us with as much accurate information as possible. And when I'm told it's not possible, but here's a summarry, I'm going to be five times the stickler on the accuracy part. I was told Iraq had WMD ready to use on twenty minutes notice. We knew where they were. Massive stockpiles. There was not the hint of doubt. Well, it's not true. So the administration lied to me intentionally, or they didn't even know themselves. I don't really care much which it was.

      "'Proud Patriot and Republican voter'
      You suspect it means blind follower and blind follower?"
      In his case, based on the rest of his post, yes. You seem more thoughtful.

      "In fact i am very critical of all opinions stances when it comes to national ideas. As everyone should be, but most people seem to just vote republic or democrat because taht's what they consider themselves for some reason. personally I wouldn't mind gettign rid of parties all together."
      Amen to that. At the least, I don't see why we should encourage thoughtless party-line voting by putting the party names on the ballots. If you want to vote a straight party lines, you could at least be asked to learn the names of your party's nominees.

    6. Re:The art of naming military operations. by gangien · · Score: 1
      That's a bit out of left field. I'll decide what to put on my server thank you.


      this wasn't the best analogy, but it was the best I could think of at the time. Basically, you simlpy cannot know everything any other person knows, president or not. So when people critize the president or any expert in any field, I tend to default the decision to the expert as opposed to the ordinary guy who has an opinion. So when the President (along with many others in power and with intelligence info) says we should go to war, I believe them unless there is good evidence otherwise or good evidence that their interests are not what's best for our country/world. The reason i made that analogy, was if say you were deciding what software to use for service and you said go with X, but a fair amount of people who will use the service say go with Y. These people are not experts and have varying degrees of knowledge of why you should go with X. What will you choose?

      And we should decide whether to commit our country to war. We will do it though our elected representatives, certainly, but that doesn't mean I won't expect those representatives to provide us with as much accurate information as possible. And when I'm told it's not possible, but here's a summarry, I'm going to be five times the stickler on the accuracy part. I was told Iraq had WMD ready to use on twenty minutes notice. We knew where they were. Massive stockpiles. There was not the hint of doubt. Well, it's not true. So the administration lied to me intentionally, or they didn't even know themselves. I don't really care much which it was.


      I dunno, i was never under the impression that they had WMD ready to use in five minutes. I thought that it was just the military making sure that they did not endure unessecary(spelling?) casualties. But even if they did, this has not been proved or disproved true.

      A quote of what Clinton said on Larry King, "but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks... [Dole says that's right] ... of biological and chemical weapons." Which is why I am of the opinion that if we don't find WMD, we're(we meaning the world) that a political backlash because of a war with false reasonings. I don't see how people can even begin to argue Iraq has destroyed them. And another thing, it's Not just this Bush adminastration (which includes Colin Powell) It's also has the backing of Tony Blair who has basically put his career on the line, perhaps his life, for this cause. This cause that really will not do much for him if the people think he was right, but will do a load of harm to him if they think he's wrong. As well as several other foreign governmental leaders.

      Amen to that. At the least, I don't see why we should encourage thoughtless party-line voting by putting the party names on the ballots. If you want to vote a straight party lines, you could at least be asked to learn the names of your party's nominees.


      You know, I really like this idea. maybe we could start a movement or something here on /. for it? ;) More than parties though, I hate the amount of people that believe a vote for a non Democratic/Republican is a waste. And those that think you have to be one of them to have your ideas pushed. My best friend is this way and it annoys the hell out of me. Why vote if you don't believe in who/what your voting in. And how they always turn liberal itno Demo and conservative into rep. As if those two were all encompassing together. They're both very much middle of the road. But then again, i'd take our government with all it's flaws, over any other government in the world so i guess I can't complain to much.

    7. Re:The art of naming military operations. by 2short · · Score: 1


      Well, I think it's pretty clear that Iraq did not pose the sort of immenent threat to the rest of the world we were led to beleive before the war. And I think it's clear that the Bush administration either knew that or should have. But I don't suppose there is much point in arguing that at length here.

      What I really wanted to reply to was:

      "More than parties though, I hate the amount of people that believe a vote for a non Democratic/Republican is a waste. And those that think you have to be one of them to have your ideas pushed. My best friend is this way and it annoys the hell out of me."

      I've got to agree with your friend. In most races, someone who isn't one of the two major party nominees just isn't going to win. Heck, in presidential elections my vote is a waste no matter what: The fact that my state will go Republican is a foregone conclusion, and thanks to the Electoral College, what percentage it goes Republican by is irrelevant.

      "Why vote if you don't believe in who/what your voting in"
      Well, most of the time I'm not necessarily all that excited about who I'm voting for, but I'm pretty excited (in a bad way) about the guy I'm voting against. In a bunch of the local races, my vote does matter, so as long as I'm in the booth, I check a box in the Presidential race for the hell of it.

      "And how they always turn liberal itno Demo and conservative into rep. As if those two were all encompassing together. They're both very much middle of the road."
      Definitely. Having only two viable parties means they're both pretty centrist. But they're also pretty polarized. Like the Republicans stand on one big issue and the Democrats on another? Well, there's probably plenty of potential candidates who agree with you on both, but sorry, they're political road-kill.

      All of which is why I disagree with:
      "But then again, i'd take our government with all it's flaws, over any other government in the world so i guess I can't complain to much."

      I wouldn't, so I guess I can complain. I know it's blasphemous, but I think our founding fathers screwed up. Gonvernmental systems created after ours in several countries do a much better job of dividing power. In our system, if the same party holds the presidency and a one seat majority in both houses of congress, they can do pretty much whatever they want. They have all the power, even though the voters may be split almost exactly down the middle. In most Parlimentary systems, that would be compromise time. But the thing that really bugs me is that representation is tied to geographic areas in winner take all fashion. So if you're in the minority in your State/Congressional district, you get no representation at all. Add in that the districts are drawn by the party in power and you've got the makings of a real mess. My magic solution? Abolish the electoral college and elect the president by popular vote. Abolish the Senate. Anyone can vote for anyone they want to for Congress, those with votes from say a million people gets a seat (making for a few hundred seats, adjust the numbers as needed). You can reassign your vote at any time (or at least at fairly frequent intervals), so if the guy your voting for isn't getting enough votes you can switch to someone who's closer, or if your representative isn't representing you the way you'd like you can ditch him. This way, every member of congress knows exactly who they represent, and everyone can feel they are represented. Of course, it will never happen. Nor will any other reforms that make it easier for non-major-party voices to be heard. Because the major parties are the ones who make the rules, and they make the rules so as to keep it that way. Bleh. /End Rant

    8. Re:The art of naming military operations. by gangien · · Score: 1
      I've got to agree with your friend. In most races, someone who isn't one of the two major party nominees just isn't going to win. Heck, in presidential elections my vote is a waste no matter what: The fact that my state will go Republican is a foregone conclusion, and thanks to the Electoral College, what percentage it goes Republican by is irrelevant

      So you're going to vote for someone you don't want to win? Why vote at all then. Furthermore if you believe your vote doesn't matter if you vote outside demo/republican why vote at all then? If anything, voting outside those 2 parties is saying more than voting with one. Why vote at all then. No matter who you vote for, it does not make an ounce of difference unless of course the race is won by 1 vote.. but I haven't seen that happen (not saying it hasn't either..). Voting for something/one you don't believe in, (or don't want someone else to win) is selling out. Here take my vote, you haven't earned it, but have it anyhow, because you're a democrat. The system would be much better if people wouldn't do this. There would be more competition among politicians, which is almost unquestionably a good thing.

      Definitely. Having only two viable parties means they're both pretty centrist. But they're also pretty polarized. Like the Republicans stand on one big issue and the Democrats on another? Well, there's probably plenty of potential candidates who agree with you on both, but sorry, they're political road-kill.


      Yes because of the way people vote. If they, as I said above, would vote for who they believe in, we could have more than just rep/demos.

      I wouldn't, so I guess I can complain. I know it's blasphemous, but I think our founding fathers screwed up. Gonvernmental systems created after ours in several countries do a much better job of dividing power. In our system, if the same party holds the presidency and a one seat majority in both houses of congress, they can do pretty much whatever they want. They have all the power, even though the voters may be split almost exactly down the middle.


      This is both good and bad (like everything else). If there was more dividing of power, it would would be extremely hard to do anything. Like whether or not to cut taxes, what would happen if it was divided up? nothing, more than likely, because btoh sides would disagree. THis is where the balance of power comes into play. The president cannot inact laws, cognress can, which is divided up, and would be even mroe so if people would stop voting only rep/dem.

      My magic solution? Abolish the electoral college and elect the president by popular vote. Abolish the Senate.


      Have you ever seen the map that showed the displacement of who voted for who in the 2000 election? The only place that gore won anything was in the big cities. I cant' find it in a quick googling but it's there. One of the reasons the electoral college works, but there are certainly downsides to it. But that's another debate entirely.

      Because the major parties are the ones who make the rules, and they make the rules so as to keep it that way.


      One more reason to NOT vote the 2 major parties.
    9. Re:The art of naming military operations. by 2short · · Score: 1

      "Have you ever seen the map that showed the displacement of who voted for who in the 2000 election? The only place that gore won anything was in the big cities"

      So? He got more votes than Bush. A majority of the voters voted for Gore. In any race but president, there wouldn't have been any arguing about the mess in Florida, Gore would have just won.

      The electoral college gives less populous states slightly more influence than they deserve based on their population. This is stupid firstly because I can't think of any issue in recent memory that was Big States vs. Little states. It's stupid secondly because it's not nearly enough. If there was an issue that was Big State vs. Little State, and it was a big enough deal to swing the election, the Big States would just roll over the little ones with no trouble at all. The relative populations of the states have just diverged way beyond what the founders imagined. The top 11 states can elect the president all by themselves.

      But while that's stupid, it's not my real problem with the electoral college. My real problem is that if a candidate gets 100% of the votes in my state, he gets 8 electoral votes. If he gets 50.001%, he gets 8 electoral votes. It seems to me that in the later case, he should get 4. Nobody has ever been able to offer me one good reason why he gets all 8.

      More people voted for Gore than for Bush. Under our election rules, Bush won anyway. I say that's stupid.

  91. Hmmm I know which country should get them first by mikerich · · Score: 4, Funny
    Any chance the US military could drop a couple of million coast to coast across the United States? Might get a decent mobile network that way.

    They could even claim it was 'field testing'.

    Best wishes,
    Mike.

    1. Re:Hmmm I know which country should get them first by chrisbord · · Score: 0

      I think a jamming system like this throught the country, especially near the coastal and strategic areas, would be a great defensive measure.

  92. And frequency hopping too by HighOrbit · · Score: 1

    The DoD has their own spectrum of freqs and they use frequency hopping and encryption (a la SINCGARS field radios) to limit both interception and jamming. The field radios are only on a particualar freq for a fraction of a second before they cycle to the next random freq. I would also surmise that the networking protocol is probably proprietary and not widely known, so even if you interecepted and decrypted the packets, you wouldn't know how to put them back togather.

    1. Re:And frequency hopping too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's actually not a random freq -- when you configure the SINGCGARs, you load the frequency plan (actually usually several frequency plans that you can switch between). Everyone on the same net is using the same frequency plan, which usually rotates regularly.

    2. Re:And frequency hopping too by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      It's actually not a random freq -- when you configure the SINGCGARs, you load the frequency plan (actually usually several frequency plans that you can switch between). Everyone on the same net is using the same frequency plan, which usually rotates regularly.

      The freq plan is essentially a pre-determined seed value for a pseudorandom number generator. If you look at where the freq hops around, it looks pretty random. I think that's all he meant.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  93. dromedaries twitching in the night by switcha · · Score: 1
    ...but also with infrared and motion sensors.
    ...'see' when anyone intrudes into that area.
    Slave THAT to some artilery

    If camels have nightmares, I think you just summed up what they are about.

    --
    You know what? ... A little club soda *did* get that out!
  94. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been out for a couple years, but in the late 90's the radios used by most end users, SINCGARs and MSRTs, both used frequency hopping with frequency sets that changed regularly (like daily), so they're already fairly difficult to jam.

    To make sure there wouldn't be problems, the SCC (the group in charge of frequency allocations for an area) would certainly be coordinating with the people configuring these critters, and could give them a schedule of frequencies for each day to leave clear. (Most likely giving them a far larger set than they'd ever expect to use)

    They could even set them up to act as relays -- its pretty common both on in the military and for local/state governments to setup relays so that people with hand units can have their signal relayed back to central location. (For example, the State of Colorado has a set of relays that cover most of the state -- with the right frequency a HAM operator with a handheld unit can talk to someone in Pueblo from Grand Junction)

    I've read about several projects to try to use networks of nodes like these critters for relaying traffic for firefighters or in combat zones, but I'm surprised these are so close to being deployed. Having atleast the subscriber-facing edge of the network be able to set itself up without having to send signal people in would be a *huge* advantage.

  95. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by ZorroIII · · Score: 1

    The nodes might require messages to be signed to allow them to pass. Messages not signed by the correct key are dropped. You only need the public key installed in the nodes, but to send you would need the correct private key. When used as a sniffer, a unique private key is stored in a tamper proof chip on the node and used to sign sniffer data before sending. If you suspect one node is compromised, just send out revocation messages for the compromised node's key.

  96. it WON'T impair US forces' communications by blchrist · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The military is not going to deploy something that will disrupt its own ability to communicate on the battlefield.

    from the article: without hindering US forces' own communications systems. Clearly the DoD thought this through a little more than most people here give them credit for.

    IMO this is a really cool project. All the people complaining about the gamma ray "nuke" should be happy about this method of disrupting communications without bombing things.

  97. Lucky? by DoNotTauntHappyFunBa · · Score: 1

    It's quite probable that they got a bit lucky.

    I find your lack of faith disturbing.

    --
    Well, hey, I didn't spend all those years playing Dungeons and Dragons and not learn a little something about courage.
  98. Re:Guess they've figured out how to get around the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haha, you're funny. Maybe in 10 years... most of the signal corps' stuff is 80's technology. When they moved to frequency-hopping stuff around 1990 it was big news...

  99. OpenSource Version by mustangsal66 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've got the case design down pat...

    WeebleWobbles...

    They're self righting... "They weeble and they wobble, but they don't fall down"

    I even have the project name down:
    WWWWF

    (WeebleWobbles with WiFi)

    Who's With Me???

    --
    Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
    Sig changed for readability by G.W.
  100. Spring loaded? by josquin00 · · Score: 1
    motors for standing up via the fins

    Why not just spring-load the legs, then have them pop open on impact? If you have three legs, it should "stand" on most terrain without needing motors (which would shorten the battery life, anyway).

  101. Most highly hyped military force, maybe by sanx · · Score: 1
    -5 Flamebait: If the US military are the most highly-trained military force on the planet, how come they keep on shooting their allies? They managed to confuse a British Tornado with an incoming Iraqi missile in the latest Bush'n'Blair show and shot it down. Also managed to bomb a division of UK tanks. I seem to remember they opened fire on their own tanks, too.
    In Afghanistan they bombed a Canadian division killing 16 or thereabouts, despite having been told about the Canadian's presence in that area. In the Gulf War 1 they killed more UK troops by accident than the Iraqis managed to do deliberately.
    Sure, it's a war and accidents do happen, but it seems that it's usually the US military that causes them.

    1. Re:Most highly hyped military force, maybe by chrisbord · · Score: 0

      Well, U. S. forces also seem to be 90% of the force. As the leaders of the offensive, we are also charged w/ *taking groud* instead of support roles or defensive ones...so of course friendly fire incidents are much more common for us, so is killing the bad guys.

      Also our forces have trouble communicating and coordinating w/ other countries' forces since our communications and battlefield tracking systems do not integrate well at all.

  102. I heard about this on a non-classified project ... by gte910h · · Score: 1

    last summer.

    I don't think they are that new.

    --Michael

    --
    Want to see every step I took to start my company? http://www.rowdylabs.com/blogs/pitchtothegods
  103. Sounds like an Imperial Probe Droid by cberetz · · Score: 1

    maybe an early alpha version? :)

  104. Similar technique use during the Vietnam War by androse · · Score: 1
    American forces parachuted small probes the long of the Ho-Chi-Ming trail during the Vietnam War. The probes contained very sensitive microphones, and a radio emitter. The purpose was to monitor the passage of the (noisy) Viet Cong trucks, send the information back to command, and launch an air strike over that portion of the trail.

    Unfortunatly it didn't seem to work very well : the Viet Cong gathered the probes, and hacked them into traditional radio transmiters, and used them as a communication device.

    This time, the probes are more sophisticated, but the idea is the same.

    1. Re:Similar technique use during the Vietnam War by TerryAtWork · · Score: 1

      They also had one that tested for urine in the air and reported that. The VC would pee on them and the computer (probably the new IBM 360) would report 1.234 times 10 to the 123 VC in the vicinity....

      --
      It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
    2. Re:Similar technique use during the Vietnam War by chrisbord · · Score: 0

      You could easily filter those out then, and then only trust readings fitting into a realistic pattern.

  105. Why an expensive missile ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just locate..aim high powered EMP gun from space....WOMP, no more signals, heck no more anything electronic to aid the enemy, or anyone else for that matter but deal with the obvious first.

    1. Re:Why an expensive missile ? by Anonym0us+Cow+Herd · · Score: 1
      Just locate..aim high powered EMP gun from space

      Space is awfully expensive. Especially when you say "high power". Wouldn't it be cheaperer to use an unmanned aircraft? Wouldn't it also be betterer, in the following specific ways?
      • You can launch aircraft and fire the EMP on demand instead of being tied to the fixed orbits of spacecraft. (Or are you also suggesting that spaced based EMP guns also be retaskable?)
      • Orbits of spacecraft are known to the enemy. (Children, it's time to bring all the EMP sensitive equipment indoors and play.)
      • Being closerer to the ground requires less power.
      • Cost of spacecraft vs. UAV's.
      --
      The price of freedom is eternal litigation.
  106. Another possible application by Snags · · Score: 2, Interesting
    These devices could serve as a communications system to get information to/from special forces soldiers during covert ops. With a guaranteed friendly receiver within maybe a mile, an extremely low power could be used for the soldier to transmit. Add encryption, compression, and a high bandwidth, and only short, un-sniffable, non-locatable transmissions could be used. The "Pringles cans" would even lay down a base of inteference so that actual communications would be impossible to spot.

    The function of a single can would be some combination of:

    • if a friendly base is within range, establish a link
    • keep a network going with neighboring cans, passing data around as necessary
    • listen for friendly communications to forward
    • listen for hostile comm. to intercept
    • jam hostile comm.
    • act as a smart mine in case of enemy tampering?

    Maybe they could even have solar cells to make them last more than 2 months in the field.

    --
    main(O){10<putchar((O--,102-((O&4)*16| (31&60>>5*(O&3)))))&&main(2+ O);}
    LN2 is cool!
  107. P2P? by Shoten · · Score: 1

    This strikes me more as being like mesh networking instead. The way they establish their own network by routing amongst themselves is a key characteristic of mesh technology. What I have to wonder is this: how far along will this concept go? Could it be that these are the predecessors of a landmine problem of the information age?

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  108. bluetooth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    bluetooth ...

  109. Wasn't that name used by Mircosoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as the code-name for their clustering technology?

  110. RIAA and Berman by MoFoQ · · Score: 1

    I bet that asswipe Berman who tried to introduce anti-P2P and vigilante laws targetting P2P along with his financial bedmate, the RIAA and MPAA feel stupid now.

  111. As a pacifist by ManoMarks · · Score: 1

    I'm officially opposed to new weapons technology. But it sounds like fairly basic but cool tech.

    --

    That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere

  112. Combine this with GeoCaching! by SamDrake · · Score: 1

    Hey, if we combine this with Geocaching (www.geocaching.com), then you're getting somewhere! A network of covert communications nodes that volunteers go and babysit periodically. Put a few McDonald's toys, travel-bugs and a collection of state quarters inside, and the nodes could be self-sustaining forever.... :-)

  113. Igloo White - 1966 Sensor Net (mildly OT) by Embedded+Geek · · Score: 3, Informative
    There's been suggestions by other posters about putting sensors in these cylinders and also questions about making the packages survive the drop. The fact is this has all been done before.

    The U.S. military actually used a lower tech version of the sensor net along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in 1966. The program was called "Igloo White" and involved a number of audio and seismic sensors. Check out this link and look at page 11 for details. Very interesting read.

    Some bits:

    • Initially unit cost was $2145 and battery life was two weeks. By the end of the program, the battery was improved (the paper doesn't say by how much, though) and the units costed as little as $15. Presumably, costs would drop similarly when the modern version gets fielded.
    • IBM 360-65 mainframes were used to correlate massive amounts of data and choose targets for strikes, although the effectiveness of the system (like almost everything deployed in Vietnam) was likely exagerated.
    • Some sensors were booby trapped to prevent tampering. Nevertheless, some North Vietnamese troops developed countermeasures - shooting dropped units out of trees, playing tape recordings of trucks near them, or (presumably for chemical sensors) placing bags of livestock urine nearby.
    --

    "Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."

  114. What else are they going to do? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

    It's not like they can say, "We don't have a counter for this yet, so lets not develop it or think about it, and hope the rest of the world is too dumb to figure out how to jam cell phones, or triangulate our position from out radio broadcasts."

    Anyway, this stuff is nothign new, it's just a new way to deploy things we could already do. Jam cell phones? Easy. Mine gets jammed 1000000 times a day (SouthernLink==SuckyLink). And triangulation is easy enough as well.

    Think if I get some good friends over at the Pentagon, and a GPS handheld, that they'd let me call in tactical strikes on annoying cellphone users? Talk about a peace dividend!

    Just My Opinion

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  115. Telemarketers Takeover D.O.D, film at 11. by LifesABeach · · Score: 0

    in a master stroke of insperation the department of defense has created a special op unit, code named 'tin ear'. during battle field conditions telemarketers with start pitching sales to any and all enemy combatants. it is believed that having to answer the phone during a pitch battle will cause the enemy to be mementarly confussed about optimal choices. a telemarketer who did not want to be identified said, "once i'v got'em on the line, i'll never let him go!"; strong wrods, but the man was sincere in his conviction.

    in a similar new story, president bush has commented on taking certain political foes off the federal no-call-list.

  116. Cheaper tech than that! by ratfynk · · Score: 1

    One good woodpecker nuke (emr directed pulse nuclear device) in the right location! Bingo no more communication period.

    --
    OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
  117. Develloped at University of Minnesota? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a CSci student at the U of M.... this sounds suspiciously like something the CSci department and specifically Dr. Maria Gini have been developing with the help of Honeywell.

  118. use at your own risk by fliptout · · Score: 1

    I looked into building a cell phone jammer for kicks not too long ago, and I found out that the FCC will slap you with a fine to the tune of $70K per day. I might be wrong about the dollar amount, but whatever it is, it isn't pleasant.

    --
    A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
  119. SSMA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As far as I know most cellular phone systems use a weak form of Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum (DSSS). To jam stronger DSSS (also called Spread Spectrum Mulitple Access - SSMA), longer codes / higher power, you would have to transmit a *lot* of wideband power. The military has been using SSMA to provide very jam resistant communications for over the last 20 years - the modem I teach is older than I am.

  120. Ummmm, I one of these just impaled my chevy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    It sounds like this, but has a big RIAA logo on the side...

    Oh well, up on EBay it goes!

  121. This subject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And just how does the US military make sure its own signals aren't jammed?

  122. Economist mag on vehicle to deliver these by Helevius · · Score: 1
    I finally put the pieces together. The 3 Jul 03 Economist (subscription required) posted a story called "A golden eye in the sky":

    "So, when DARPA, the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency, asked Aurora, a company based in Manassas, Virginia, to design an unmanned aerial vehicle that was quiet, small, could fly for several hours on autopilot, and could deliver two cylinders the size of Coke cans to a distant location, Aurora happily obliged."

    The DOD Small Business Innovation Research Resource Center appears to show the awarded contract for Aurora Flight Sciences Corp:

    "The best solution to deliver small, covert communications/ sensor packages is an autonomous airborne vehicle that operates outside the enemy's threat envelope: the Clandestine Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (CUAV)."

    Now we know what all the pieces are for!

    Helevius