DVD-Enabled Consoles Do Better?

Thanks to GameMarketWatch.com for their article discussing a survey linking console DVD use and game purchases. Some manufacturers don't see the point of a bundled DVD player: "'Why would we ever include DVD playback in our videogame system?' was the question posed in a recent Business 2.0 article by George Harrison, Nintendo's VP of Marketing. 'If someone buys a DVD and watches it on the Nintendo GameCube, we wouldn't receive any revenue from that. We'd rather have them play our games.'" But the survey shows a possible advantage to DVD playback for hardware manufacturers: "The Centris poll results... suggest that DVD capability has the potential to drive game software activity, since respondents that used their game consoles to watch DVD movies were also the heaviest purchasers and renters of games."

Comments

cause and effect

[muirhead]

Centris poll results... suggest that DVD capability has the potential to drive game software activity...

I sense some confuddled thinking.
Doesn't the surveys just imply that the folk that send the most time infront of their TVs, also watch more DVDs and play more games?

Re:cause and effect

[Yorrike]

Agreed. Is this showing that gamers buy their console because they have DVD functionality, or that they just use the DVD playback because it's there?

Personaly, I'm getting sick of these Anti-Nintendo articles. You can bad mouth them all you want, but Nintendo made 6 times more profit in the first quater than the entire Sony group. (That's video games, TVs, DVD players, the lot).

The Gamecube has sold 9.6 million units world wide, vs 9.4 million Xbox units. And still everyone talks about the GC like it's a dead console and has lost the console war.

Sure, Nintendo owes a lot to the old battle droid that is the GameBoy, but any company pulling upwards of $100million a quarter in PROFIT in these economic times has to be doing SOMETHING right.

Re:cause and effect

[patch-rustem]

And still everyone talks about the GC like it's a dead console and has lost the console war.

The Xbox has microsoft to keep it subsidised.
The PS2 can run linux, so you gotta love it.
The GC a good games console, but you lose.
Pity

Re:cause and effect

[lidocaineus]

Well, so can the Xbox. Run linux I mean. And despite the fact that you need to mod your box, the Xbox linux distros are much more useful than the "Gee, it's cool to pay $200 for a sandbox-ed version of Kondara!" PS2 version

Re:cause and effect

[Antisthenes]

Exactly. I've bought a grand total of one game for my PS2 so far, but I use it to watch DVDs frequently because my regular DVD player is a cheap (and old) piece of crap that skips horrendously and even turns itself off while trying to play DVDs that the PS2 handles without a hitch.

This "our DVD player sucks, but a brand new PS2 won't" ploy also helped my brothers and I convince our Mom to let us bring a new console into the house. ;-)

"Yeah, Mom--the PS2 is fantastic at playing DVD movies!"

Re:cause and effect

[UnknownSoldier]

> Is this showing that gamers buy their console because they have DVD functionality, or that they just use the DVD playback because it's there?

One of the main reasons I bought the PS2, was because it could play DVDs. I was able then to look around at what DVD player I wanted, and buy a "real" one (Panasonic RP-91) The PS2 worked great as a player.

> And still everyone talks about the GC like it's a dead console and has lost the console war.
It's lost mind share of the publishers (and developers.)

If most publishers aren't interested in shipping games on it, it doesn't matter how well it sold.

IAAGD. (I am a Game Developer)

Re:cause and effect

[SmallFurryCreature]

But what you seem to forget that both Sony and Microsoft are different type of companies. They can afford to loose a console race. Can nintendo? It wouldn't be the first time a game company goes bust because it lost out in the console wars. History has generally shown you don't get a second chance.

As for anti-nintendo articles well cry me a river. This article made an observation and one that is not entirely unvalid.

Do people really buy a console based on if it can play dvd's or indeed do anything except play games? Hard to say but the fact that Nintendo left it out while everyone else included it says something. It tells you that nintendo likes to go its own way, like sticking to cartridges when CD's are so much cheaper to produce. Like censorship in games when the other allow any type of game.

Do these strategys work? Well not according to sales figures. You can compare it all you like to the X-box but the fact is that X-box is a loser as well. The one to beat is the PS2 and that one is miles ahead.

The one area they do well is in the handheld area. Now sony is moving in on this as well. A lot of people seem to think sony will botch this up. After all it is unthinkable that sony can beat nintendo on doing a game console :)

The profits nintendo shows are indeed not bad. But a substantial part of this is the handheld area, if they face the same kind of competiotion as they faced with the PS1 and PS2 then they are done for. They may hold out a long time but have we ever seen a game company come back from a lost war?

Re:cause and effect

[Yorrike]

But what you seem to forget that both Sony and Microsoft are different type of companies. They can afford to loose a console race. Can nintendo? It wouldn't be the first time a game company goes bust because it lost out in the console wars. History has generally shown you don't get a second chance.

History also shows that you get two generations of being on top, then it's all over. But I don't see anyone forcasting the PlayStation's demise because of this.

Nintendo has billions of dollars (5 or 6, I believe) in reserves. They can afford losing another couple of races, especially with their in-house franchises (mainly Pokemon), bringing so much cash in.

Re:cause and effect

[bamurphy]

I think it works like this:

Husband/Boyfriend: "The Playstation 2 is only $150 at best buy."

Wife/Girlfriend: "You already have a Playstation!"

Husband/Boyfriend: "But this one play's DEE VEE DEEs! We can watch all the seasons of Sex & The City"

Wife/Girlfriend: "Ok."

Husband/Boyfriend: "Mwaha. GTA:Vice City here I come"

Re:cause and effect

[EvilOpie]

It tells you that nintendo likes to go its own way, like sticking to cartridges when CD's are so much cheaper to produce.

Well, if I remember correctly, they went with cartridges not because of cost, but because of load times. Loading data off of a solid state device is a lot quicker than loading it from a spinning CD. If you'll take a look at the load times of some of the PSX and PS2 games, you'll appreciate why Nintendo did their best to keep their load times low.

Like censorship in games when the other allow any type of game.

I think you're missing something in that sentence, but if you mean that Nintendo won't allow things that Sony and Microsoft will, do you have examples of this? I can see your point in the past when games like Mortal Kombat had the blood in them replaced with sweat instead. But are there current examples of this? I mean, if Nintendo can now release games like BMX XXX, then how much can they really be censoring?

Re:cause and effect

[BTWR]

Personaly, I'm getting sick of these Anti-Nintendo articles

Me too. Can we please stop the "Gamecube is an enourmous flop" stories?

While we're at it, can we also stop the "Dreamcast was the greatest system ever" rants as well?

Re:cause and effect

[BTWR]

As for anti-nintendo articles well cry me a river

Disclaimer: I'm a Nintendo fanboy.

But the point the grandparent is making is not "I love nintendo, and (whine-cry-sob) PLEASE stop posting stories that say my console is a flop!" The real point is that it's just stupid that there is an article seeminbgly every week about "Joe Schmo, on his Geocities website, talks about the Console Wars, and how Nintendo is falling behind." or "Is Gamecube a Disaster?" You get the same N-zealots and anti-N-fanatics throwing the same flamebait at eachother story-after-story ("Nintendo is kiddie!" vs. "Nintendo makes the best games!"). Enough already!

Re:cause and effect

[BTWR]

They can afford losing another couple of races, especially with their in-house franchises (mainly Pokemon), bringing so much cash in

Don't forget Zelda, Mario, Donkey Kong, Kart-racing, Starfox, Kirby, Metroid, etc. People will buy these franchises EVERY time they come out.

Re:cause and effect

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot used to do the same things with the Dreamcast. Now that the Dreamcast is dead things are so much better in console land. I mean I love seeing SEGA in a position where they have to ask for permission from Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft to produce games. And it's not like we haven't seen a lot of new, original Sega games rather than rehashes of games that were done perfectly well on the Dreamcast, thank you very much...

Well, I figure that the editors at Slashdot, full of glee that in their own small way they helped kill off the Dreamcast, are now going after the last independant video game company with the same vigor. Note, I'm no Nintendo fanboy, they've always had disgusting business practices but at least they've been a game company for most of their existence. I'm guessing the Slashdot editors are working for Sony, but Microsoft is getting a boost as a side benefit.

Frankly, I think the best console out now that has original games produced for it currently is the Playstation One. It is distantly followed by the Gamecube, which in my opinion barely makes it. None of the other TV-based systems are decent.

Re:cause and effect

[Anonymous Coward]

the sad thing is (i'm pretty sure i read this in egm or some other gaming magazine) that sony censored bmx xxx for the ps2 and everyone still talks about mortal kombat's censorship.

Re:cause and effect

[Mike Mentalist]

Well, if I remember correctly, they went with cartridges not because of cost, but because of load times. Loading data off of a solid state device is a lot quicker than loading it from a spinning CD. If you'll take a look at the load times of some of the PSX and PS2 games, you'll appreciate why Nintendo did their best to keep their load times low.

Whilst that is what Nintendo CLAIMED was the reason behind their decision, it is false.
By going with the cartridge format, they controlled the whole manufacturing process and could then set what prices they wanted.

Re:cause and effect

[infragilis]

And still everyone talks about the GC like it's a dead console and has lost the console war. It's certainly not a dead console, but Nintendo has definitely surrendered the initiative when it comes to the console wars. Back when the NES was in its' prime, it ruled supreme - I remember selling my Sega Master System so I could play Mario Bros. That was cool when I was, say, 8 or 9. By the time I turned 16, though, my tastes changed. Concepts which were unfamiliar to me at age 8 were at the forefront when I was 16. Nintendo offered nothing to me in the way of those tastes - sure, I could play Mario Kart 64 or Killer Instinct on N64; alternately, I could play Tekken, Gran Turismo, or Final Fantasy VII on PSX. Nintendo has entrenched itself in the young child market; these are not the kids who shell out $50 for the games - and they have a hard time convincing their parents to do so. Sony, on the other hand, is directly appealing to the 16-25 y/o market, which can afford to buy a new game every week. Is it really any wonder, then, that Nintendo is lagging? The GC may be a great console, but it is not appealing to the market which supports gaming, and may well die from it.

Re:cause and effect

[gamgee5273]

Three letters: GBA.

The GameBoy can keep Nintendo afloat for quite a while. How long? That's debatable...but it could be long enough.

Re:cause and effect

[SmallFurryCreature]

Like the recent /. article about nintendo of america censoring Manic Mansion, the lucasarts game. They objected to the a nude statue, art in an art exhibit, being in the game.

I wasn't really talking about current, more to show that in that the past they went their own way, after all they do now use cd's.

Oh and yes the load times for cartridges are lower, after all the game is already in memory, but you make the production costs skyrocket. Of course this helped keep piracy down. \

It just shows that Nintendo in the past did their own thing. In the past it worked and they were the kind. Now it doesn't seem to work anymore. Maybe it is temporary, maybe they can survive it, maybe they will change. Fact is that Sony is now what nintendo once was and sony is looking to become even bigger. So nintendo has sony in front and MS coming in from behind.

I don't know where this is gonna lead. I just don't think that upsetting say, europe by not releasing games. Upsetting people by leaving out headphones on a portable game platform, releasing only a handfull of worthwhile games, are signs Nintendo still thinks they are number one. Lets just pick this conversation up around after christmas when noone will have a new hardware out and people will purely be buying games.

Well duh?

[Loosewire]

I know people who were baught Ps2's beacuse they wanted a games console and they wanted a dvd player for the family - i would imagine thats a significant number of people. Also nintendo will lose out of the multiplayer gig beacuse Mr Myamoto doesent like it- nintendo may be heading the way of sega....

Re:Well duh?

[einTier]

I also know that there is a sizeable amount of the population who can't afford a DVD player and a game console -- unless they are bundled together.

Sure, for most of us, we'd rather have a real DVD player, but for some, they see some real value in the mediocre PS2 or X-Box DVD players. They get a game console for the kids or themselves or the family, and the whole family gets a DVD player.

Also, thinking back to when I was a child, getting a DVD player and a separate game console would have taken two major holidays or a lot of sacrifice to scrape up the money. Even if the games were better on the GameCube, I'd be seriously tempted to purchase a PS2 or X-Box just for the embedded DVD player.

Re:Well duh?

[edwdig]

You can get a decent DVD player for about $60 nowadays. The GameCube started out $100 less than the PS2, now it's $50 less. So a GameCube + DVD player is $10 more than a PS2, but you're getting a better quality DVD player.

Re:Well duh?

[einTier]

OK, let me put it another way. When these consoles first came out, you couldn't get a decent DVD player for $60. Not only that, but as a kid, it was simply easier for me to ask for one $200 item for Christmas than it was to ask for a $150 item and a $60 item. I was very likely to get the $200 item, but I was very unlikey to get both the $150 and $60 items, even though their prices were nearly the same. I also know that I can justify one piece of electronic equipment to my wife easier than I can justify two, even if the prices are almost exactly the same.

Re:Well duh?

[dead sun]

No, but a DVD player that bests the quality of the one in the PS2 was readily available for less than $100. The prices still don't really justify the integration.

I bought a PS2 for the games, Final Fantasy, DDR, GTA, Gran Turismo, etc. I'm packing up to move and have my stand alone DVD player packed up, but not the PS2. Feeling like watching a DVD today I popped one in the PS2, nice to have that ability certainly. The quality from the PS2's DVD playback, however, is just plain lacking in comparison.

For reference, I have an old Apex DVD player, one made right after the hidden no macrovision menus were cleaned up but before the players were produced as cheap as possible. It wasn't terribly expensive, I think I got it on sale for a little over $100. The picture quality just blows the PS2 away though.

I'll give you that getting one big item is easier for a kid than two, but now a kid could ask for a cube and a game, and spend some of the money grandparents always send on a DVD player. The game is related enough to the cube that it could be plausable. Also, perhaps I'm lucky in that my girlfriend tolerates and sometimes encourages electronic equipment. =D

The real argument I can see is the clutter factor. Many people don't have much room for more boxes. The TV is on a little stand that has a VCR and a few movies and there is no more room except on the floor for another box. In this case I can certianly see the wisdom in getting an integrated DVD player/console.

Re:Well duh?

[Babbster]

All of this talk about DVD/video game synergy is interesting, and the speculation about how it affects game console (hardware and software) sales is equally so. It does bring another question up, though: Would Sony have sold as many PS2s as they have if the system hadn't come out while the DVD format was still in the process of gaining its full traction?

I think that the appeal of the combination DVD/videogame console was located entirely in the fact that a great many people didn't yet have a DVD player. This, coupled with the fact that a decent DVD player was still at least $150 made the PS2 look a lot more appealing because it would give them access to all those neat DVDs that they hadn't been able to watch before AND it would give them access to all the neat video games which were, or would be, available for the new Playstation. Add into the mix the continued popularity of the FIRST Playstation game system and the PS2's compatibility with that (not to mention the fact that they were offering their system a year ahead of Nintendo and Microsoft), and you have the perfect confluence of events for the PS2 to completely dominate the market.

Of course, this raises yet another question which is "Can that lightning strike again?" Now that the interested people have their DVD players (PS2, standalone or both), will DVD movie compatibility continue to be a major selling point of systems in the NEXT video game generation? My speculation would be that the answer is "no." While it might be handy in that you can just plug in the follow-on console to your Xbox or PS2 and unplug the old one, I think it's more likely that people won't care at all about the unit's DVD movie playing.

Because of the above, I think that Nintendo did the right thing too soon. With only a year separating the PS2 and the Gamecube, they probably would have been smarter to make the thing able to play DVD movies so that there would be no perception of absent features. If they were releasing the Gamecube today, however, I think that the lack of that feature would go by with almost no comment since just about everyone who wants a DVD player (and has had a halfway decent job in the last two years - I've seen cheap players go for $60!) already has one.

Re:Well duh?

[Loosewire]

my thinking now. I would love a gamecube just to play metroid prime and my computers dvd drive broke a few months back...... if the cube had dvd playback i would have one sitting on my desk now. As it happens i dont, i may buy one when they come up second hand for 40 or less (ie just to add to my console collection) I wouldnt buy an xbox beacuse you have to buy the dvd kit -Screw you Megashaft. p2s would be nice but there really arnt any games on it i would enjoy that much.

Free console - No surprise...

[Ratso Baggins]

I have a perfectly good N64 with plenty of games. I had no need for a new console. I wanted a DVD player. The price difference between a DVD player and a console that plays DVDs is small (ok not so small when you make the PS2 play DVDs - but I won't buy an Xbox for religious reasons ;), so I esentially got a PS2 console for free. But the thing is I've baught a few games for it and a Steering wheel, all of which I didn't really need (I already have much the same except for the wheel). Without the DVD player feature I would have just passed.

Here's a tip for electronics makers. A phone that dosn't suck, plays stereo mp3+Ogg+FM radio, uses CF not SD, bluetooth and java games I can write/manage myself - I'm in again...

OK DVD player but noisy

[GreatDrok]

I have a PS2 and GameCube. I have used the PS2 as a secondary DVD player but have had to put it into a hifi cabinet to stop the noise of the fan being a constant irritation. While it has played all the DVDs I have wanted to and is also region free thanks to region X I don't think I could stand it as the only DVD player we had. The remote is terrible and the noise irritating. Picture is OK on a small screen (28" widescreen) but I wouldn't use it for films on my projection system.

To be honest, I'm with Nintendo on this, the GameCube is smaller, quieter and starts games quicker so as a games machine it is better than the PS2 as it sticks to what it does best. Sadly, the games are released too late so we tend to get the PS2 version when they appear. If the PS2 and GC versions arrived at the same time I would buy the GC version in a heartbeat. Sadly this delay rather than lack of DVD support is what we mean the GC will be runner up to the PS2. Xbox is even further behind despite being able to play DVDs of course.

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[NexusTw1n]

If you have a home projection system, then a dedicated DVD player is a minor cost in the whole budget. I have a projector - cost 1500 plus 200 a year for a new bulb, 100-150 for a super silent high quality dedicated DVD player is nothing when you're playing with that budget.

People bought PS2s before DVD players dropped in price - you could spend 200 on a DVD player, or 250 on a DVD player and PS2 combo - no contest really. The DVD option is still attractive even now to those on limited budgets or limited space.

Joe Average is going to be attracted to the console that plays DVDs as well. If you're buying for the kids and you don't know which company does the best games then a free DVD player can swing the deal. Either because they still don't own a DVD player, or the console is going in a bedroom or den where the main entertainment system isn't accessible.

Creating a properietry format disk like Nintendo, rather than just using cheap DVDs is stupid. The cost of throwing a DVD player into the mix has to be tiny compared with the additional sales you will get.

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[PainKilleR-CE]

People bought PS2s before DVD players dropped in price - you could spend 200 on a DVD player, or 250 on a DVD player and PS2 combo - no contest really. The DVD option is still attractive even now to those on limited budgets or limited space

PS2s were still $300 and hard to find when you could get a decent DVD player for $100. Sure, you could buy a better DVD player for $200, but then that DVD player would've been better than the one in the PS2, as well, and you could've picked up a DreamCast for $100-150.

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[NexusTw1n]

I was talking about the UK where PS2 were around 200-300 pounds and easily available and DVD players were the same price.

The dreamcast was never a serious option in the UK.

The point is even now the PS2 is still good value for those who use their "main" TV for TV watching and their second TV for games or in a kid's bedroom. - When they aren't playing games, you can keep them quiet in their bedroom with a disney DVD.

"Hardcore" gamers only make up a small percentage of console sales. For Joe Public getting a free DVD or MP3 or CD player with their console can be extremely important.

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[PainKilleR-CE]

"Hardcore" gamers only make up a small percentage of console sales. For Joe Public getting a free DVD or MP3 or CD player with their console can be extremely important.

Hardcore gamers also make up the largest percentage of game sales, where the real money is. The only problem, of course, is that you have to sell consoles to get developers interested in making games for your console.

I use my PS2 to play DVDs in the living room, because I gave my old DVD player to a roommate when he moved out, and only have a 4-way switch for the TV (DC, PS2, XBox, GC). I only use it when people come over and want to watch a movie, though, because the DVD player (and TV) in the bedroom is much better (a combo DVD/VHS player I bought for ~$200 around January to replace a VCR that broke in a move back in July '02). Of course, the PS2 was bought as a replacement for the PS1, which I turned around and sold with a bunch of extras (and some games I didn't want) for $100, and not for it's DVD playback. The DVD functionality has just come in handy after the fact (2 years later).

That's the part I really wonder about. How many people didn't consider the DVD functionality when buying the PS2, but later found it useful? I owned a DVD player for quite a while before I could even consider buying a PS2 (because no one had them, and if they did they had a waiting list), and before I bought a DVD player I was using my computer to play DVD movies (when DVD players were expensive but a DVD drive + hardware decoder cost $200, of course now a DVD drive can be found for $30 and software decoding is almost as good as the cards were then (better in some ways, especially with hardware assistance from most current video cards)). In fact, I didn't buy a PS2 until I found a VGA adapter for it, and it turned out that the VGA adapter wasn't very good (compared to the DC's VGA adapter). I inherited the TV I currently use to watch movies (I previously had only a 14" TV), and the TV I play games on now belongs to my girlfriend (I think I might buy another TV before moving this one to another place, though, as it's a giant console TV).

Frankly, I was thinking about buying a pre-modded Panasonic Q (GameCube that plays DVDs, modded to play Japanese or US games and for region-free DVD playback), but the thing costs over twice as much as even a modified imported GameCube (which doesn't really cost much more than a US GC at the moment).

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[GreatDrok]

If you have a home projection system, then a dedicated DVD player is a minor cost in the whole budget. I have a projector - cost 1500 plus 200 a year for a new bulb, 100-150 for a super silent high quality dedicated DVD player is nothing when you're playing with that budget.

Wow, 200 (quid? Bucks?) a year for a new bulb sounds pretty steep. How much do you use your projector to be going through bulbs at that rate? Mine has 3000 hours lamp life and I fully expect that to last five years at current rates of usage (couple of films a week tops).

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[Hedonist123]

Those bulbs are ultra sensitive, even with their long lamp life. One bump may or may not destroy it, then you are out of some cash. I think he means 200 bucks too. Projection systems are probably not something that you want to invest in when you have kids under the age of 12... or if you ever leave your kids above the age of 12 home alone in the house. It's bound to cost you $$$$$. Hed.

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[GreatDrok]

Those bulbs are ultra sensitive, even with their long lamp life. One bump may or may not destroy it, then you are out of some cash. I think he means 200 bucks too. Projection systems are probably not something that you want to invest in when you have kids under the age of 12... or if you ever leave your kids above the age of 12 home alone in the house. It's bound to cost you $$$$$. Hed.

Hmmmm. I'm on my second projector now, I replaced the first one because the bulbs had a life of 500 hours and cost $400 a time. I had replaced the bulb once and that lasted three years of reasonable use. I lugged that projector around quite a lot and the bulb ran the course. In the end it was getting dim but still worked. That old projector was very robust. I bought the new one because the cost was the same as 3 bulbs on the old projector, and the lamp life was 6x the old one. Also, the picture quality was vastly improved. The only thing is to make sure that the projector is allowed to cool off before the power is cut. Do that and the bulb should last the expected time. These little portable projectors are pretty robust but I do agree that I wouldn't like to let kids near it. However, I wouldn't say that the bulbs are "ultra sensitive", just take care and follow the instructions in the manual.

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[Pendersempai]

Creating a properietry format disk like Nintendo, rather than just using cheap DVDs is stupid. The cost of throwing a DVD player into the mix has to be tiny compared with the additional sales you will get.

Perhaps, but one must make a couple considerations that work against your thesis:

• Copyright infringement HUGELY burdens profits of worldwide console revenue. Scrapping the proprietary format almost single-handedly incurs these costs, yet enabling DVD playback requires it.
• DVD playback capability is not only a question of technological capability (and the costs associated with it) but of licensing fees and restrictions. Manufacturers individually negotiate the terms with the giant, fascist cartels we all love to hate, and agreements typically involve not only a massive fixed cost but also a substantial per-unit royalty. When console manufactuerers already break even or even lead a loss on every console sale and engage in brutal price wars with their competitors, an additional $30-70 per console inflicts tremendous disadvantage, particularly when the boxes otherwise retail for $180-300 to begin with.

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[NexusTw1n]

Wow, 200 (quid? Bucks?) a year for a new bulb sounds pretty steep. How much do you use your projector to be going through bulbs at that rate? Mine has 3000 hours lamp life and I fully expect that to last five years at current rates of usage (couple of films a week tops).

200 quid for a lamp life of 2000 hours. That's retail, I get them a lot cheaper because I work in with AV equipment all day.

My bulbs only last a year because I use the projector a lot, for films and for games playing. You can't beat playing Civ III on a screen that literally fills the wall!

As others have said, always make sure you let the projector run through the cooling routine before you turn off the mains power, that will help prevent the bulb blowing.

The point is anyone who can afford a projector system,isn't going to be using a PS2 for a DVD player, unless their system has limited scart connections. Complaining about the noise of the PS2's fan, which the parent post did, was pretty weird as well, considering the noise the cooling system on a projector makes...

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey (as in a greeting). Two things (topics I wanted to talk to you about.)

1. NOBODY CARES (about your electronics)
2. Too many parentheses (just fucking say it)

Re:OK DVD player but noisy

[GreatDrok]

The point is anyone who can afford a projector system,isn't going to be using a PS2 for a DVD player, unless their system has limited scart connections. Complaining about the noise of the PS2's fan, which the parent post did, was pretty weird as well, considering the noise the cooling system on a projector makes...

I agree. I only paid 800 quid for my first projector and that was very noisy. The new one is much quieter, not whisper quiet, but not intrusive like the old one was. The noise of the PS2 would probably compete with it but wouldn't be much of an issue. However, in the spare room on the little 28" set the noise is quite irritating, subjectively more so than the noise of the projector in the main room.

Still, I love playing GTA:Vice City or any of the racing games on the projector, great fun, amost immersive. The DTS soundtrack on Vice City is really neat too.

Gamecubes + DVD player

[shibashaba]

I remember reading somewhere a while ago that (I think Panasonic) was selling gamecubes that could play dvds in asia. I wonder if they still make them.

Re:Gamecubes + DVD player

[Yorrike]

Yes, yes they do.

Re:Gamecubes + DVD player

[Enrico Pulatzo]

Any idea if that thing plays okay with the wavebird? The wb has a radio receiver that sticks up and looks to me as if it would block the dvd-drive door.

Backwards in more ways then one...

[pocopoco]

Nintendo is also the least supportive of online gaming as well. MS packing the equipment needed for voice chat with it's online kit was a great, innovative move. Nintendo just wants to play it safe and sit around with it's tired old franchises, not participate in the evolution of gaming.

Re:Backwards in more ways then one...

[Locky]

Least supportive? I think its fair to say they have been the most supportive, willing to give it the most chance. They began experimenting with the frickin NES online, back in the 80s in Japan.

The company doesn't consider online will generate its worth, which is fair to say, The Xbox and Xbox Live obviously do not prove their worth.

PS2

[noselasd]

The Playstation2 DVD is great. With other DVD players you can jump on the floor, and the DVD skips/stalls. Playstation2 doesn't. Seems like good quality to me, besides I can get rid of my dvd player and save som space/wiring.

Re:PS2

[nicksthings]

You've GOT to be a Sony plant. The PS2 DVD player is of extremely poor quality. In fact, the PS2 hardware, at least models from the first 2 years of production are so shoddy that it's ridiculous. I'm a manager at a video game store and at least once a day I have people coming in either:

• telling me their PS2 is broken, can I fix it?
• telling me they need a lens cleaner for the PS2 - they're getting disc read errors! Surprise!
• buying a new PS2, because their old one stopped working.

Now, granted, there are plenty of systems that are working just fine. But the number of systems that DON'T work is way too high for me to be fine with you saying the "Playstation2 DVD is great."

Hell, my PS2 doesn't play DVDs, PS2 games, CD-ROMs, audio CDs, or PSX games anymore...now that's great.

Re:PS2

[LordBodak]

The average PS2 is probably treated MUCH worse than the average DVD player. Mine was bought day of release, has been packed up and moved nearly a dozen times, gets tons of use, even survived a year in the dorms where there was more dust than you could imagine-- and still works as perfectly as the day I bought it. As a manager, you're going to hear a lot more people coming in saying "my PS2 is broken" than just coming in and commenting "hey, my PS2 is 3 years old and still works great!"

Re:PS2

[nicksthings]

My PS2 hasn't worked well since day one; in fact, DVDs have skipped and jumped and completely stopped since I owned the thing. It's my fault for not sending it to Sony ASAP, but that's not the point.

I understand what you're saying, though. My point is: I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a PS2 without an extended warranty. Heh.

OT

[lidocaineus]

Here's a tip for electronics makers. A phone that dosn't suck, plays stereo mp3+Ogg+FM radio, uses CF not SD, bluetooth and java games I can write/manage myself - I'm in again...

I think despite the fact that SD is more closed, they use it for the easier power requirements compared to CF.

Missed the Window of opportunity...

[Whatchamacallit]

Sony did it right, they shipped a DVD player with the PS2. It was really quite smart because at the time DVD players were still expensive and the cheapest ones were complete crap.

Most US kids who get a Playstation from Mom & Dad already have their own TV in their room, at the time they didn't have a DVD player. (maybe a VCR but no DVD). So the ability to rent one's own movies and view them in one's bedroom along with games was what helped sell the PS2!

The real buyers of the PS2 were the 18-30 somethings who could afford the expense of the PS2. This crowd already had DVD because they had jobs that paid real money! But they only had ONE DVD player on the main TV in the house. The 20-30 portion of this crowd may actually be married and have children. This means they don't have time to play games that often and they may just fight with the wife over watching Lifetime channel shows. So they retreat to another TV with their PS2 and play games as well as watching guy movies the wife won't watch.

Nintendo blew it! First they targeted the younger crowd and second, they neglected to put a DVD player in their inexpensive console. Do you have any idea how many Disney movies on DVD the average kid has?!?! It's incredible, I think my sister's 5 year old has just about every damn movie and she's watched them 8 million times! Parent's simply don't want to watch them again and again! Had Nintendo simply included a DVD player the parents would have freaking loved it! Just get the kid a small cheap TV and let the kid play in their room the next time you rent an adult movie! They can play games and/or watch their movies.

It's too late now for DVD to make a difference in anyone's buying decision until games start getting shipped on DVD and using the added space. DVD players are very very inexpensive, you can get one at Walmart for under $50! So that's why Ninetendo blew it! They also didn't ship fast enough nor could they compete with Sony or Microsoft on the hardware. They missed the Window!

Email Nintendo!

[pogle]

Tell them that Mr Harrison is drastically wrong in his stance. I really can't believe that guy is a VP of Marketing, since he seems to have no conception that extra features that everyone wants == more sales of said console. That guy needs some reeducating.

I just sent a nice long email to nintendo@noa.nintendo.com explaining why my PS2 goes everywhere and why I buy more games for it, versus my Gamecube. It was polite, well reasoned, with evidence from mine and my friends' game habits. I doubt anyone of importance sees it ever, but efforts had to be made.

I have hope for Nintendo, but only if they educate or sack guys like Mr Harrison, and occasionally listen to what the customers want instead.

Re:Email Nintendo!

[Boglin]

extra features that everyone wants == more sales of said console

I'm going to have to disagree with your equation. Simply remember the Nintendo64. Granted, this was a poor selling system compared to the Playstation, but it beat the crap out of the Sega Saturn, 3DO, and CDi. Yet these three consoles could all play music CDs, which the N64 could not. Also, the 3DO could play Kodak PictureCDs and VCDs. Yet Nintendo's console stayed long after these others were lost. The net conclusion is that features alone do not sell a console. Another common theme has been that it's such a small price difference between buying a DVD player and buying a console. Take a trip out to Walmart; you can pick up a DVD player for one-third of the price of a PS2 or XBox. Yes, this DVD player is garbage, but the average consumer won't notice; he's too busy trying to figure out why widescreen DVDs aren't using his whole screen. Most of the parents I've know who have bought PS2s or XBoxen for their kids didn't even figure the DVD player into the equation, as they weren't aware that it would do it. If the family is getting a DVD player, the PS2 or XBox doesn't cross the parent's mind; those are just "video games". Now, as you will also point out, this doesn't really hold for the 20-30 crowd of gamers. Here, you are correct; we are likely to know the diference and try and save some money by buying a game console and selling our DVD player. The problem is that there's a much larger market than 20-30 year old males. Nintendo is not, nor was it ever, trying to market solely at kids. Nintendo wants to cross all the markets. So, while the DVD player may impress college age guys, it won't do a thing for the forty year old housewives that love Super Monkey Ball.

Re:Email Nintendo!

[BTWR]

3DO also cost like $700 when it first came out

Saturn was an awful system all around, and even in 1997 when it came out, $200 for a cd-player was very pricey (as opposed to PS2's launch in which a dvd-standalone player could cost $250 itself)

Re:Email Nintendo!

[PainKilleR-CE]

Saturn was an awful system all around, and even in 1997 when it came out, $200 for a cd-player was very pricey (as opposed to PS2's launch in which a dvd-standalone player could cost $250 itself)

I wonder where everyone that says this was living. At least one person responded that they lived in the UK, and the prices were obviously different there. My step-mother bought a $100 DVD player before I could even find a PS2 on the shelf (they were available in the US, but the stores didn't have them because of the shortages that drove EBay PS2 sales to $500). I bought a DVD player for $200 about 2 months earlier only because I was more concerned about quality (there's not really anything wrong with the DVD player she bought for $100, but the image quality is not quite as good and it does have problems with a handful of discs, much like the PS2). The PS2 launched at $299, the Dreamcast cut to half that (or one third that shortly after) around the same time.

My step-brother found out his PS2 couldn't play DVDs about a month after he bought it, when he rented a DVD and a couple of games (one of the games was a DVD) and it wouldn't acknowledge the presence of the movie or the DVD PS2 game. Luckily, the place he had bought it from had given him a pretty good warranty because he bought it used (it was one of the first run of PS2s to hit the US, apparently someone had either decided they didn't want a PS2 or had realized it had this problem, which also occured in the Japanese PS2 launch hardware but wasn't officially recognized until GT3 (the first DVD-based PS2 title in Japan) didn't work on most people's machines), and they traded it out for another PS2 that worked just fine. Did he buy it because it played DVDs? No, but once he had owned it for a while and DVDs were obviously becoming the next big thing (and places started renting DVDs, which not many places did when the PS2 launched), he certainly didn't mind using it for that purpose.

i'm a living example

[crowdozer]

I've owned a gamecube for a little over a year and love it. I've wanted an xbox but could never justify buying a second console. About a month and a half ago my Sony DVD player decided it no longer wanted to play certain DVDs. (POS!) So it was time to buy a new one. Well I could spend $150 on a new player or i could spend that extra $50 and get the xbox (+dvd accessory) that would do the same thing. Sweet. Now I can justify buying an xbox. Since then I've already bought 9 xbox games. Microsoft gets richer.

XBox noisy?

[BMonger]

Just out of curiosity (and possibly mildly off-topic) does anybody else find that their XBox is fairly noisy whilst watching DVD's? I've almost contemplated getting a dedicated DVD player for this reason. Unfortunately I don't have room the way my entertainment center is set up.

Re:XBox noisy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it is rather noisy. My brother used to have an Xbox, but he's sold it and bought a Gamecube and a real DVD player instead. Both are quiet, and the DVD player is codefree out of the box.

PS2 DVD playback

[010_digital_100]

It seems to me that Sony and later Microsoft (don't mod me down please) did the right thing by including a DVD player in their respective consoles. Just look at the effect it has had on the college scene!!! Most kids want a gaming console and a DVD player, but 2 years ago a DVD player cost >$250 (for a decent sony/panasonic). The high school and college scene really drove the PS2 to new heights because of the $$$ of the gaming/DVD console. If your dorm room had a PS2, kick ass speakers, and a keg of beer; then you were set. By having a PS2 you had a gaming system, CD player, a DVD player, and a Linux computer (if you forked out the dough). All you would need is a TV, receiver, speaker, and the Keg of Beer.

Typical College Day

1) Wake up
2) Check email on PS2
3) Skip Class
4) Play Madden on-line on PS2
5) Eat
6) Watch DVD on PS2
7) Eat
8) Put CD in PS2
9) Throw Party & Consume Keg of Beer

PS2 DVD AFA

[Metal_Demon]

I watch all my movies on my ps2. I most deffinately did not buy it because it plays dvds. One of these days when I can move off base and outta the dorms I'll be buying a dvd player, but only in the sense that I'll be buying a reciever so I can get some surround sound and what not, and it will more than likely have a dvd changer. I would actually have a different dvd player already if I wasn't so cheap, because I hate having to swap between the game I'm currently workin on and movies all the time.

Disclaimer: I own an x-box, which is NOT a dvd player (pet peeve but we won't go there), and after the price drop I'll be buying a cube. I mention this to say that games are my priority and therefore dvd functionality doesn't influence me in the slightest.

Shows a mindset in the industry

[MobyDisk]

This quote is great. It shoes a very foolish and arrogant mindset that has taken over media-based and subscription-based industries.

"If someone buys a DVD and watches it on the Nintendo GameCube, we wouldn't receive any revenue from that. We'd rather have them play our games."

They aren't interested in quality, value-added products anymore. They are interested only in making their customers pay more money in the future. Notice that manufactures of players for DVD, VHS, CD, vinyl record, audio-tape, floppy-disks, etc. don't make money (directly) from sales of media -- but they still find a way to make money on the hardware to read them. Duh! Waaay long ago, there was a day where the manufacturer sold the playback device for a profit, rather than as a way to lock people into something.

This further illustrates that there is no love for the consumer. Just because the consumer wants it, doesn't mean that it is worth doing. They don't even bother to ask if the consumer will enjoy the product more, leading to good sales. It doesn't even occur to them. This demonstrates that the consumer votes with their dollars according to one set of criteria, but the manufacturers think the consumer is buying based on another.

Re:Shows a mindset in the industry

[PainKilleR-CE]

Notice that manufactures of players for DVD, VHS, CD, vinyl record, audio-tape, floppy-disks, etc. don't make money (directly) from sales of media -- but they still find a way to make money on the hardware to read them. Duh! Waaay long ago, there was a day where the manufacturer sold the playback device for a profit, rather than as a way to lock people into something.

The only way Nintendo could get video games back into people's homes was by controlling the content, and this also gave them a way to make money from the games (and reduce the need for the hardware to cost more, which would've meant lower sales).

As for the manufacturers of players for other media (music and movies), notice that most of those people are also in the business of creating the music and movies that are on those media, or are simply diversified companies engaged in selling a large number of products that don't depend on any specific market to thrive. Sony's in music, movies, video games, and home electronics, so it only makes sense for them to make a console that plays CDs (PS1) or DVDs(PS2), especially if it means you'll connect it to a Sony TV and a Sony receiver and play music from Sony artists and movies from Sony studios on it. Oh, and they pull a licensing fee from everyone that makes games so that they actually have a reason to be in the console market in the first place (the lesson learned from Atari by way of Nintendo). Sure, you should be able to sell 30 million PS2s and be happy with that, but the money coming in from the couple million copies of GTA that didn't require anything more than the console being there (from Sony anyway) means that that division of the company makes more money than either the electronics or music divisions, and almost as much money as the movie division, so they stick with it and invest more money into not only the current console but also future consoles. Microsoft's in it for the same reason, they want a chunk of that game money, and while they're at it setting up an online service and selling subscriptions for $50/year isn't a bad way to get some money, either (though they're supposedly losing money hand over fist on the hardware so it's a long term gamble for them). Nintendo, on the other hand, actually IS making money on the hardware, and most of the software that's making money for them is software they have invested in themselves (and in most cases completely developed themselves). Their hardware is a delivery mechanism for their content, just as a DVD or CD player is a delivery mechanism for Sony's content, and a computer (and a network connection) is a delivery mechanism for Microsoft's content.

Re:Shows a mindset in the industry

[Mike Hawk]

Hey Painkiller, Mike's back to challenge your constant defense of the Big N.

You explained alot of things. All of these are true. You completely ignored the main point of the original post. Why does all of that excuse Nintendo from trying to do something value-added? They won't make extra money on it, but they won't lose money either. Look at the XBOX model. The DVD functionality isn't technically built in, so they don't have to pay a fee to the DVD gods, UNLESS the end user wants the functionality then the end user buys the remote and covers the cost themselves. Give the user the option.

Its just doing something nice for the customer. The quote in the parent you replied to is about contempt for the consumer. Something Nintendo shows an increasing amount of.

Re:Shows a mindset in the industry

[PainKilleR-CE]

You explained alot of things. All of these are true. You completely ignored the main point of the original post. Why does all of that excuse Nintendo from trying to do something value-added? They won't make extra money on it, but they won't lose money either.

Nintendo's given a lot of different reasons for that, and the most recent one seems to be that the Cube is meant as a game console, and that is all. Further reasons would be mostly technical (piracy is harder, the disc is written in a different manner (outside-in rather than inside-out) which should reduce loading times somewhat), but overall it just comes down to this simple answer: ask them. If piracy is the main concern, then of course they lose money by going to DVD, because so far no DVD system has been safe from piracy, and there's no proof that there ever will be one that is. At the same time, they (through Panasonic) have a system capable of playing DVDs in Japan, so why not here? It obviously costs a lot more than the base console because the console uses a non-standard disc format, but it still exists.

Look at the XBOX model. The DVD functionality isn't technically built in, so they don't have to pay a fee to the DVD gods, UNLESS the end user wants the functionality then the end user buys the remote and covers the cost themselves. Give the user the option.

I agree that it's nice to give the user the option, but at the same time the price of the DVD remote for the XBox is exactly why I don't have it. I use the PS2 or go to the other room (where I have a DVD/VHS combo player), and plan to buy another DVD player for the living room eventually anyway (but for now it's just nice that the PS2 plays them, the capability had nothing to do with buying it in the first place because I already had a DVD player and didn't have either of the TVs I use now).

Re:Shows a mindset in the industry

[Mike Hawk]

You continue to apologize for them...
You say: Nintendo's given a lot of different reasons for that, and the most recent one seems to be that the Cube is meant as a game console, and that is all. Further reasons would be mostly technical (piracy is harder, the disc is written in a different manner (outside-in rather than inside-out) which should reduce loading times somewhat), but overall it just comes down to this simple answer: ask them. If piracy is the main concern, then of course they lose money by going to DVD, because so far no DVD system has been safe from piracy, and there's no proof that there ever will be one that is. At the same time, they (through Panasonic) have a system capable of playing DVDs in Japan, so why not here? It obviously costs a lot more than the base console because the console uses a non-standard disc format, but it still exists.

But they say: "If someone buys a DVD and watches it on the Nintendo GameCube, we wouldn't receive any revenue from that. We'd rather have them play our games."

I tend to believe the word from the horse's mouth. You still have not addressed their comment at all. Stop looking around, and just look at what they said. They have no intention of adding value for the positive sake of adding value. They, more than any other first party, don't care about you. They aren't even afraid to admit it anymore.

Re:Shows a mindset in the industry

[PainKilleR-CE]

I tend to believe the word from the horse's mouth. You still have not addressed their comment at all. Stop looking around, and just look at what they said.

Every other reason I stated came from their previous statements.

They have no intention of adding value for the positive sake of adding value. They, more than any other first party, don't care about you. They aren't even afraid to admit it anymore.

By your logic, the only one of the major console manufacturers that cares about anyone is Sony, because they're the only ones that include a progressive scan DVD player. Oh, wait, that's only if you buy the online bundle today, since they were so thoughtful as to not include the online adapter in the console from the start, or to include a decent DVD player in the first place.

Yes, if you want a DVD player in your console and you don't live in Japan, then apparently Nintendo doesn't care about what you want, or they tell you to go buy a $60 DVD player (which will be just as good as what you get with the original X-Box and PS2). If you want a game console, that's what Nintendo sells. The only value I get from the fact that my PS2 works like a cheap DVD player is that I can use it on the TV that my good DVD player isn't connected to. For $30 I can get the remote for the X-Box and have a better DVD player, but it's really not worth it to me when I can eventually get a better DVD player for that TV for a bit over $100. Or I guess I could inport a Q for $450.

Do people think Nintendo ignored these options?

[mhlandrydotnet]

As this add seems to scratch the surface of another "What's wrong with Nintendo" thread, I'll bite.

From the looks of it, it appears that most people think that Nintendo flat out ignored the push to make a console that doubled as a home entertainment system. Has anyone considered that Nintendo may have made a concious decision, after weighing the pros and cons, to keep the GameCube purely a game console?

Isn't it concievable that Nintendo weighed the cheaper/easier-to-make pros versus the lose-market-share cons and simply decided to leave the entertainment system out of the console?

Was this really the worst business decision they could make? With Sony holding a good bit of the market share and Microsoft coming out with a new game console, perhaps Nintendo simply thought they could not afford to make a console that sold at a loss?

Re:Do people think Nintendo ignored these options?

[alphaseven]

Isn't it concievable that Nintendo weighed the cheaper/easier-to-make pros versus the lose-market-share cons and simply decided to leave the entertainment system out of the console?

Wouldn't basing a system around the established DVD standard be cheaper than using a proprietary system? The only advantage to Nintendo's system I can see is that they can charge developers for manufacturing disks (I'm not sure about this) and that it would make piracy much more difficult and expensive.

"Give without take? That's unpossible!"

[HTH NE1]

"Why would we ever include DVD playback in our videogame system?... If someone buys a DVD and watches it on the Nintendo GameCube, we wouldn't receive any revenue from that. We'd rather have them play our games."

How'd this guy become a marketing VP? If you sell a product with the intent that it become a continuous node of revenue for you, people will reject it. They can recognize a device that serves only the company's profit interest.

Successful products that have ongoing expenses give the user something more, something they can use without draining their pocketbooks. Entice with the free features and they're more likely to opt in for the pay features. You have to give something freely before you can take. Preferably something the end user values more but which costs you little or nothing to give. Lock the user into your profit model and he will resist.

You can catch more flies with honey and a vacuum cleaner than you can with just a vacuum cleaner.

Selling a console at a loss

[ronfar]

Why would Nintendo want to sell their consoles at a loss in order to compete with Sony and Microsoft as Entertainment Hub companies when, as they pointed out, they won't make money if the people play DVDs? Sony does make money when people by DVDs, they are (in addition to their many other businesses) a DVD company. We are not talking about Nintendo adding a DVD player and being able to sell their consoles for cost-plus-profit here, because I don't think that would be a viable business strategy. Nintendo has to be price competitive with Sony at the very least, and probably Microsoft too in the United States market. I think here the problem is understanding the three different approaches to Video Game strategy by the three companies:

Sony, the Digital Hub: It's a Sony world and we all just live here, at least that's the dream in the boardrooms of Sony, Inc. Sony wants to make every consumer electronics device you use, from proprietary CD players to proprietary game systems and proprietary DVD players, something that bears the Sony logo. The Playstation has always just been one small but important part of this road to dominance. I want to note that this is not the reality now, just Sony's dream for a new order.

Microsoft, Dangerous Paranoids: Supposing Sony suceeds. Well, in that world people will do all their computer stuff on some version of a Playstation or VAIO, and Sony can theoretically publish their own software and lock Microsoft out of the market. The people at Microsoft fear competition in the world of computer software, and they see this as a real threat. The solution? Compete with Sony in the digital hub business. Make no mistake, this is the real war that is going on. Microsoft wants to continue its dominance of the software industry, and it can't let Sony pull the rug out from under them by achieving absolute dominance of the hardware their software runs on.

Nintendo, Ex-VideoGame Monopolists: Nintendo never liked competition, but they do not like the new direction the video game industry is headed. They were perfectly happy having absolute dominance of the video game industry, but right now that is just a distant dream. What they don't want to happen is to be sucked into playing Sony's game by Sony's rules. To achieve that, they have to keep the war about video games and not about digital hubs. Part of that is their gamble, which is winning the video game war on the basis of superior games, not being jack-of-all-trades. So far, they aren't suceeding, mainly because their competition still creates good, solid video gaming experiences despite the fact that it is only part of a larger strategy.

So, that's my take on current afffairs...

The kids

[nanojath]

I suspect a significant element is kids. It is fairly common in this day and age that a kid has a TV in their room. The parents buy the console but the kid picks it out, right? So, while the parent may be unlikely to buy an extra DVD player for the kid's room, the savvy kid who picks the DVD playing console gets one anyway.

And yeah, you're also probably right that late DVD adopters considering a new console will see the value of killing two birds with one stone.

Re:The kids

[Maserati]

That's extactly why I bought a PS2. I could have run a cable from my PC to my TV to watch DVDs on the couch. Nahhh. There were some games I wanted to play (Gundam notably, even if they all suck, and other anime-themed games, plus Kingdom Hearts and FF X), so picking up a PS2 made sense. The fact that the company I work for has Sony as a client merely provided some bonuses later on.

Excellent points

[Andy Dodd]

FYI, my cousin and his kids are a perfect example of how Nintendo blew it with the Gamecube.

They were all big Nintendo fans.

Which of the current-gen consoles do they have? Hint: Not a Gamecube. Why? They wanted a DVD player too when they bought it.

Re:Excellent points

[Johnny Mnemonic]

That's all very true. I bought my PS2 instead of an Xbox precisely because a DVD player came with the PS2, free; I didn't want to give $40 to Microsoft just to enable the technology that was already there. (Joke's on me; I bought the Sony remote because I got tired of using the controller.)

So what's next? Let's see--Microsoft already ships a HD with their machine, and presumably the graphics can handle mpeg encoding. If I didn't already have a Tivo--and if the Xbox started coming with a service-alike, for free--that would certainly make my next decision. And microsoft gets it's subscription model that it has been looking for.

Re:"Give without take? That's unpossible!"

[Andy Dodd]

Or more simply:

No one's going to buy your games if no one's buying your consoles.

Therefore, while in and of itself Nintendo would not make direct revenue from DVD capability, they would make indirect revenue in that for many people, lack of DVD capability was a big strike against the Gamecube when answering the question, "Which should I buy?". I know this was one of the factors in my cousin buying a PS2 for his kids instead of a Gamecube.

Nintendo are becoming stupider everyday

[billcopc]

They're plagued by the "One vision" syndrome. Problem is that Miyamoto doesn't govern the buying habits of the entire planet.

Anyways, the reasoning behind bundled DVD support is a psychological cushion. Kids nag their parents for the latest and greatest console, parents say "Nay" until they notice it's also a DVD player. So they say "DVD's would be nice" and they buy the thing, thinking both kids and adults will benefit from the investment.

Sure beats those 40$ Apex AD-1200's any day!

It's okay for now.

[BigDork1001]

Sure the DVD playback was a big thing for this generation of gaming systems but I don't think it'll be as big of a deal with the next generation of systems. When this gen was coming out there weren't many people with DVD players. Now a lot of people have either an actual DVD player of a PS2/X-box and so when the next gen comes out it won't be as much of a selling point. I think Nintendo did the right thing and I sure hope that they don't add one to their next system. It'll just increase the price for the GC2 or whatever it'll be called and I won't use it because I already have a DVD player.

Wa$te

[M3wThr33]

I just bought a $50 DVD player yesterday to compliment my Cube. My roommate has a PS2 and I have a DVD drive in my computer.

Why buy the player? Because the cheap $50 player does a lot more than a thrown-on PS2 pile-of-junk-player does. The public is just too dumb to appreciate it.

Re:Wa$te

[seanthecasanova]

Thats not true man,I have an ps2 and I see that its a perfect thing of bundling those 2 things. think about it you dont have 2 buy it for $50 plus you can play games. GREETZ SEAN

Re:Wa$te

[M3wThr33]

Right, and your PS2 can play X/S/VCDs, jpegs, mpegs, and all mp3s, and power-on from the controller and play all region dvd's without modifying it?

Not to mention it will NOT FAIL ON ME after 1 year? Do you know the failure rate of PS2s? Maybe YOU aren't part of it, but go to a GameStop or any game place and ask about the failure rate of PS2s and the most common part to fail(DVD Lasers).

One of the differences between Nintendo and Sony

[gedanken]

Nintendo is a game company while Sony just happens to make a large profit from games.

For nintendo it may not make much sense to pack a dvd player but for sony who also has a large stake in dvds it was a huge decision. An old article stated that when the ps2 first came out Sony was making more profits off of dvd sales that games from people (in japan) who would usually not be watching dvds but because they purchased the ps2 they were now able to.

Holy retarded marketing suits Batman!

[dscowboy]

"If someone buys a DVD and watches it on the Nintendo GameCube, we wouldn't receive any revenue from that. We'd rather have them play our games."

This guy is their VP of Marketing?! No wonder Nintendo isn't winning! My dog's ass could understand marketing concepts better than this guy. I hope the interviewer laughed so hard he blew snot all over the room.

I still haven't bought a console, but Nintendo has never even been a consideration for me simply because I don't have a DVD player yet. There are about 2 games on each system I'd like to own, why would I buy the one system without DVD? Morons. "But it'll be small, so japanese school girls can carry it in their backpacks!"

Now if it came with a japanese schoolgirl... THAT would be marketing.

Well, it would seem to be right

[KurdtX]

Hrm... what are the two popular consoles? X-Box and PS2.

What console is mostly dying? The console that doesn't allow you to play DVDs on it.

Why? Well, I was looking at buying one myself a year ago, and like a good slashdotter, I immediately crossed off the Evil-Box, so it came down to the PS2 vs. the GameCube. Since I didn't have a DVD player (except for on my computers) it made the choice real easy, as each platform had an equal selection of games I wanted (at that time). Besides, the cube is top-loading, so I'd either have to put it on top of the TV (yeah, that's a great idea) or pull it out and put it back each time I want to switch games. I guess the idea of being "not only the president, but also a client" isn't so laughable.

Yes, but not necessarily more profitable.

[WoTG]

Well, yes, more features are good for consumers; but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the more profitable thing to do! By using a non standard format Nintendo gets an extra level of protection against software pirates. Certainly there were other factors like more tightly integrated security in the chips, but the form factor counts too. It prevents pretty much all off-the-shelf DVD burners, and more importantly, the "professional" presses from being able to churn out perfect digital copies of games.

The result is that of the 3 major consoles, Nintendo's is the only one whose games are NOT pirated. Well, AFAIK anyway, if not, it definitely has lasted longer without large scale copying than XBox and PS2.

The final result, is that Nintendo has a nice profit. Plus the GC's are physically tiny (relatively).

Not entirely correct

[AzraelKans]

There are several reasons why the Gamecube is struggling in the game market, censorship, not such good specs, low space and a different format (mini dvd) and low space for developers to work with but mostly is the fact that Nintendo doesn't really care for all of this problems (and it shows) they know that as soon as their console is oriented to their target audience (kids and parents who buy consoles for their kids, wither you like to admit or not) and while their GBA's sale well (GBA adapter anyone?) and their steady hardcore fanbase buys their franchise titles, they are just going to be fine. (or at least thats what they think) About nintendo's reasons for no dvd, Im going on a limb here but since Nintendo has always wanted to give the "gamecube is harmless to kids" message to parents, and they have encouraged this by not allowing "controversial" or "too mature" titles in it (like "silent hill" or "grand theft auto") how they could have carried with that statement if their kids could watch R-rated and even X-rated DVDS in their consoles?
Call me crazy, but I strongly believe at some point this thought crossed in the mind of executives and thats the real reason why they decided the DVD was a big "No no" By the time of the E3, sony had sold 51.2 million of ps2, Microsoft 13 million of XBOX and Gamecube 9.4 million Gc's since 31/03/2003 (according EGM magazine) you may cry me a river but I dont live in the united states and I can tell you the following: is difficult to find a gamecube here (not to mention latest games) only 5 out of 20 electronics stores has games for the console and only 2 out of 20 has the console itself, all stores however sell PS2 and XBOX consoles, accesories and software.

The line up for next year (as far as I know): PS2: Final fantasy XI, MGS 3, Gran Turismo 4
XBOX: Halo 2, Doom 3, half life 2, DOA online
GC:Mario Kart Dash, Rogue Squadron 3, FF Chronicles, Pacman(?) and pokemon tv.

Not just a bad marketing move

[drewmca]

People are forgetting that the lack of a DVD player hurts the gamecube in other ways. There isn't nearly the same amount of room on the proprietary little disks as there is on a DVD. That means less room for textures, fmv, sounds, levels, etc. While no current games are pushing size limits on game data yet, the limits are already apparent with regard to textures on the GC. Take a look at IGN's head to head reviews, where they compare versions of games that have come out on multiple consoles. The GC versions have repeatedly gotten lower marks for poorer texture quality, for the simple fact that there wasn't enough room for high-res textures on the GC disk.

I think that it's a valid decision on Nintendo's part to not include DVD playback for cost reasons. That's a business decision. I wouldn't have made it because this generation of consoles came out just as DVDs were launching into the most successful media rollout in modern history, but that's just me. But for them to turn around and act like it's a feature is kind of ludicrous. They take the stand that game systems shouldn't have DVD playback because they don't. "It's a game system, it shouldn't have DVD playback! it doesn't need it!"

Most people I know would gladly pay an extra $50 for that ability. Actually most people I know with either PS2s or xboxes stated the DVD playback as a major reason for getting the machine in the first place. It's an easier justification, especially for the adult, casual game player. "Hmm, do I need a dedicated gaming machine? (I really want one but how do I justify it?)" versus "Hmm, I'd like to play games-- HEY, this is a DVD player! I need a DVD player. If I convince myself it's a DVD player, I'm not dropping $200 on something just to play games!"

Nintendo should play up the fact that the lack of DVD makes their system cheaper. They shouldn't try to pretend that it's better because it's just a game machine.

disclaimer: I love my gamecube, so back off, all you nintendoites lemmings.

Now, that was thoughtful

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo now is trying to FORCE their hardcore fans into buying GBA's, in their latest (and probably the last good RPG in the doomed console) FF:CC you actually need to own 1 gba for player, to Play the game in 4 player mode!!

Worst of all is that some fans (penny-arcade) actually gave the monopolisthic technique a thumbs up.
Whats next? you are going to need a gamecube to play some GBA game?
This is idiotic at best.