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The Distributed Library Project
An anonymous reader writes "Mike Benham of thoughtcrime.org has started a cool project for sharing information and building community in San Francisco. From the website: "Unfortunately, the traditional library system doesn't do much to foster community. Patrons come and go, but there is very little opportunity to establish relationships with people or groups of people. In fact, if you try to talk with someone holding a book you like - you'll probably get shushed. The Distributed Library Project works in exactly the opposite way, where the very function of the library depends on interaction." It looks like the software is now available for other cities."
This is actually a really cool idea.
But imagine if we could do the same thing with digital media on the
Internet. We might invent a system for sharing, for example, music
and video files and call it "file sharing" or even "peer to peer".
We might even register a domain name for the service and call it
something like "Napster". Dammit someone already registered
napster.com, I guess my dream will never become a reality.
John.
to be advertised. Even for a site like this!
Touché!
++goodthinkfull
I regularly report MSN spam to the Hotmail admins.
This seems to be a lot like meetup.com. This is an interesting concept though, and in areas where there are enough people to sign up it could even be usefull. However even with large cities like Chicago, and New York, I notice there are not many people in the different meetups. The trick is having enough people in the system to make it work well.
Soon Comes Obituary
They don't even verify the corrects of the data in the accounts.
And for "e-bay" style "trust" management: yeah, I would have said the same but I usually refrain from insulting people. And e-bay at least tries to verify your data.
Another example of a left-wing sozio-political idea which seems great on paper but has a 100 percent chance of getting fucked in real life.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
... sue you to death. -- Is this were you feed your troll?
Well.. It seems, to me that this looks exactly, as difference between centralized and decentralized P2P sharing. Well - almost =) Therefore, some problems come to mind: 1) Lousy search 2) Loads of garbage floating around 3) Unability to actually download found file. Did I miss something?
Dephine URL
Are there no editors left that still remember about Napster? I mean this is crystal clear.. this must have been edited by someone who's absolutely new to that whole computing and internet thing...
While this does seem like a cool project, the very premise is a bit skewed. Libraries used to be quite places, talking was always frowned upon, and the librarian was some old 90 year old hag who cared more about smacking people around than passing on knowledge.
Times, my friend, are changing.
It's often acceptible to socialize in libraries now. There are usually designated quiet portions of the library, but for the most part interaction between patrons is allowed. In fact, larger libraries set up study groups and so forth where interaction is ENCOURAGED among patrons who are interested in a similar topic.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
It's a great idea for sharing books and videos with other people. But, personally, I am really picky about to whom I lend things. Regardless of whether they plan to steal them, you'd probably never get your books back in the same condition that you loaned them. Then, you'll just have to end up going out and buying new books...
So instead of having some weirdo hit on you in a public building, they can now do it in the privacy of your own home.
Patrons come and go, but there is very little opportunity to establish relationships with people or groups of people.
Dude, have you seen some of the people that mill around libraries? Homeless kickers, pseudo-orphans, and just the garden-variety weirdos that talk to themselves? If I want community I'll go to my local arcade.
The coolest voice ever.
She's cute.
What's to stop a whole bunch of people giving themselves high ratings and good feedback, and then stealing other people's books?
I suggest they use something like the Advogato trust metric to maintain the integrity of their system. This allows bad "nodes" to be isolated and damage to the system avoided.
I also think that there should be penalties, like at any library, for having overdue books. Get a bad rating from one person is just a slap on the wrist.
I'm not so sure this would work. The kind of people who one books are probably the same kind of people who would get really annoyed if the book was damaged by some random stranger (ear marked pages, etc).
At least that's the way I am. I don't even like to let my family or girlfriend borrow my books.
Wtf are you smoking?
Kathleen Fent is an ugly, buck-toothed whore who's only purpose in life is to give Taco 2nd-rate blowjobs.
Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but our local library has done a lot for fostering community. My wife has participated in the annual poetry contest and readings at the library. We have gotten to know our library staff, met people and our kids have discovered new materials through the connections that they have made at the library. I won't argue that this program has value, but your average local library is community-run, a center for local civic involvement and community programs and projects. The American Library Association puts community involvement at the heart of it's mission. In fact the major advertising campaign for this is called connect@the.library. Still, the project has merit, especially because the materials that your average library offers is limited by limited finances, and this might fit niches that go unfilled right now, like making high-end geek stuff available to others.
You are never under any obligation to lend an item if you don't feel comfortable doing so.
Darn right. I wouldn't trust my porn collection to some stranger. Kerouac. I meant my Kerouac collection.
The coolest voice ever.
If this idea grows and spawns multiple sites, how much time will it pass until the RIAA/MPAA/WIPO/(insert another draconian patents regulation entity here) start shutting them down?
The right to read looks more close te reality each day.
Ahem. This ALA-accredited librarian (I just happen to work in the software industry) is offended by the summary and linked-to site's suggestion that libraries don't encourage a sense of community.
As well as making books, videos, CDs, and other media available to patrons, physical libraries tend to offer their facilities to groups (for no or nominal fees) to get together for discussion. I have attended poetry-writing sessions, mid-80's computer clubs, environmental activism sessions, and local community groups, all hosted by local public libraries. Just check the bulletin boards (physical, or online) for notification and invitation to attend the many happenings at your local library.
Here are a few stats from a March 2002 survey commissioned by the American Library Association:
Those 14% sure have good opportunities for developing some sort of a community.
Maybe walking into a room without knowing anyone else there is daunting, so virtual communities like http://www.communitybooks.org offer a lower courage barrier for participating -- but at the same time, it's a little easier to melt into the background (or flame like mad) when you disagree with someone else's position.
And please--that stereotype of you'll probably get shushed is way wrong. If you get shushed, it's not going to be a librarian telling you to be quiet; they want you to be active and engaged. If you're approaching another patron who is trying to read, that patron might respond positively or negatively--but that's the risk you have to take if you really want to make contact with someone else who appears to share your interests.
Libraries and other non-profit organizations are generally the source of the few community gatherings in any town. From chess clubs to book clubs, summer reading programs to adult discussion groups, the libraries in my communities have always served as a strong foundation for social interaction.
While this concept sounds neat, and can probably serve a certain audience, if you wish your local library was more active, volunteer some time and get involved.
I am a huge technology advocate, but things like person to person contact off the net are just so important.
Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds to me like you actually have to meet up with this person and borrow the physical item. The site could use a better explanation of the program. I think the site said something to the effect of you don't have to let someone borrow something if you don't feel safe doing it. Besides if it was downloaded stuff how would you return it?
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
I just hope they dont store all the data on CD-r's.
adventure-today.com
If I have a CD or book to lend out, I GIVE it to the library and let them handle the distribution.
am I supposed to "feel" if its safe or not?
This only enforces problem with retrieval - because it will be always more naturally to assume, that borrowing your book to complete stranger isn't safe.
Dephine URL
1) hippie jackass re-invents the idea of chat
.. proclaim it
.. taco .. the really Stupid one
network
2) slashdot editors get ahold of it
new mecca
3) world eats it up
4) who the fuck posted this?
5) oh
6) taco is arrested for fondling little japanese
children
7) finally
...on the parent site (first link in write-up) and was surprised to find the following: linux for anarchists.
Ha!
Another cool project is the BookCrossing project.
Really, you will not get shushed at a library unless you are doing something flagrantly disrespectful. And even then, you wouldn't get shushed; you'd be asked to stop whatever it is you're doing. A bun-haired old woman would not look at you over her pearl-rimmed glasses as she raises a finger to her shushing mouth.
Given how much work the above-mentioned ALA has done to fight the DMCA and similar things, I'm surprised that librarians still get such stereotyping here. My wife, a librarian, has four large tattoos and several piercings. A woman colleague of hers rides her Honda motorcycle to work. Bun-haired old women they are not!
-- haaz.
Slightly OT, but the same guy's site has a (slightly outdated, but still a good argument) page about why the War on Drugs is a failure. Good read, especially in light of my state's recent decision to flout the Supreme Court's ruling that "Narcotics Checkpoints" are illegal and unconstitutional invasion of people's 4th amendment rights. Even though they're patently illegal, Marion County Indiana is having them on average of once a week for the rest of the summer. The Indiana Civil Liberties Union is already suing, and you know our Drug-Warrior/Sherriff will waste millions defending his actions, (millions of tax dollars, of course) then complain when his department has to cut budget mid-year because of the money he is wasting on lawyers.
Who did what now?
Kathleen looks like a healthy, intelligent and smart young lady and a real human being (unlike your typical model or a porn star).
...a community weblog and a time-based karma system, and I imagine it might work well. There must be some appreciation of private property here though---community property is quickly ruined without oversight. Personally, I don't see this scaling beyond 1st- and 2nd-tier friends.
-- Bob
What about hooking this sort of database to something similar to friendster or livejournal so that people offer their items up for loan to the people (and possible groups/communites) that they choose? Then it is up to the individual to decide how distributed their library really is.
They should pay a small deposit to some "insurance" fund that pays you for the price of the book if it's stolen. Actually that wouldn't work too well because of fraud (people claiming their book was stolen when it wasn't really etc.) but it's a nice thought...
Unless you don't just lend something out to someone, you make a temporary trade. Let's say we're both into fantasy fiction. I've got The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and The Simillariowhatever. I want to see what this Harry Potter fuss is about. You've got the 5 Harry Potter books, and saw The Two Towers movie, and now want to read all Tolkien's stuff. So we trade for a predetermined period, say 5 months. If you decide to be a jerk and keep my books, no big deal, I've still got yours.
One problem I can see is disputes: say you spilled orange juice on my books and aren't willing to buy new ones. Or say you just spill a little on one page and I decide to be a jerk about it and demand you buy a new one.
But with some inventiveness, it just might work out.
c-hack.com |
..what about those people who DON'T want to be social? The library isn't really meant to be a place to socialize, nor should it be. If anything it can be a refuge from the horrible forced interactions the some have to endure in daily life: being nice to the boss, saying something nice about someone you can't stand at work or school, etc...
Un-news
Since each member of this organization is like an independent lending archive, then this seems to suggest that lending copies of your materials should be fine so you can keep the originals.
If you disagree, I'd like to know which part of the copyright law supports your position. You'll find the part about fair use all nice and easy to read in HTML here at the LOC.
all your book belong to me
Since some commercial book stores already do it, how about adding a Starbucks, or something similar to your public library. In that 'zone', there would be no requirement for quietness. If you want quiet, then leave the coffee and go to the rest of the library.
;)
Also, how about 'community tables' in the coffee shop area? This is something I have already seen in some places. You can sit down at a large table and risk the chance of chatting to someone
What about damage? Well maybe you could have an 'in-library' check out. That way the books come under the same limitations as a normal checked out book.
In the long run, this should be similar to the Coffee sponsored Mozilla approach, so the library would get some return for doing this.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Unfortunately, the traditional lavatory system doesn't do much to foster community. Patrons come and go, but there is very little opportunity to establish relationships with people or groups of people. In fact, if you try to talk with someone using the toilet you like - you'll probably get shushed. The Distributed Lavatory Project works in exactly the opposite way, where the very function of the lavatory depends on interaction.
Why the hell do we have to Rheingold everything and turn it into some 'distributed project' with 'interaction'?
Anyone happen to know such software that is more flexible in that respect? Shouldn't be all that hard to build, but hey, i'm lazy :)
I've done BookCrossing, for books I didn't want to keep that were popular genre fiction. It's amazing how far your books can go when you give it to someone headed out on an international sales trip. I asked them to leave the books in the airpot lounges - there's nothing worse than seeing the same 10 best sellers all over the world.
There's a reason that professional librarians go to graduate school to learn how to do essential "librarian" things like cataloging. Any database of this nature will collapse in on itself and be completely useless without things such as language control. This is another case where a techie with a really good idea should first consult with a professional librarian before trying to re-invent the wheel.
...the traditional library system doesn't do much to foster community
That's just nonsense. Yes, you can't go walking up to strangers reading and start a conversation but who wants that anyway? There are many opportunities to get to know your fellow patrons. Our county library system has many activities during the day, evening, and weekends, including book discussion groups (for adults, teens, and parent/child), story time for the younger set (so popular that you have to get a free ticket from the circulation desk the morning of the event to get in), board game night for teens...and more activities I can't remember.
I'd be surprised if the SF library doesn't have similar programs (unfortunately their web site seems to be down so I can't check).
As another poster mentioned, many or even most libraries already do things to foster community.
This idea *is* an interesting way to *force* people to interact, but that shouldn't be confused with community, which is a sense of togetherness or belonging to something.
A crucial component of this is having an actual physical, brick-and-mortar presence that enables people to interact when they want to. In a library you can choose to interact with librarians, or you can see someone looking at a book and ask them about the author. The cost of going to the library in terms of time is higher than browsing online (although many libraries let you browse online anyways), but once you get there every operation has a lower overhead. You can search for a book, go to the shelf and see the other books next to it. You can grab a few dozen books you might be interested in, look them over and then just borrow the ones you want. And all of this with a much bigger collection than any member of the proposed club would have.
I think that the identified problem is very valid, but the proposed idea doesn't solve it. Libraries are becoming less viewed as a community resource than they used to be, in part because chain bookstores are kicking their butts in that area, providing a place to read, chat, have a coffee, and even attend events. Maybe it's chicken and egg, because if libraries were better-utilised they'd probably get more funding. I don't know if that's the issue.
So libraries need to improve their current public image, from boring, dusty "whispering-only" collections of old books, to cool places to check out the latest books from your favourite author. Basically that's what the large bookstores are doing. Knowing that the library has copies of *recent* books is important, and borrowing the coffee shop idea from the chain stores is not a bad idea either!
byroniverse
We've had a setup like this for technical books in Portland for approx. 8 months now. http://library.pdxlug.org/ We share books with other tech geeks involved in the user group and make trades/borrows/lends at meetings. http://www.pdxlug.org/
Robby Russell
PLANET ARGON
Robby on Rails
I don't want to meet you. Please stay out of my face.
As the anonimo who suggested the idea to Mr. Benham, who promptly created the site over one weekend, it seems people are missing some points.
1) The site has geographical information. By exchanging books with other people who live close to you, you get to actually meet people who live near you who share your interests! The hope is that these connections may form the basis for longer-term associations and larger groups and projects of all kinds.
2) The site is not intended to supplant the public library system, but to complement it. How this works may be quite different in large cities and small towns.
3) If you're paranoid that other people will steal or damage your books, you have two options. Only lend out books that you've already read and don't mind if you lose, or only lend to friends or friends of friends. The system is useful just to keep track of whose books you have and who has which of your books. Even if you restrict lending to friends of friends, you will find out more about who has interests in common with you.
Take a look at Book Crossing. It's a site about sharing books and is similar to your library project. With BookCrossing you register your own books. Then you can "release" them (leave at coffee shop) and hope someone finds them.
There is even a story in Readers Digest.
Koozie.org