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Native Java JDK 1.3.1 Support For FreeBSD
ap writes "Justin T. Gibbs, of the FreeBSD Foundation, announced today the availability of a native binary release of the Java JDK 1.3.1 for FreeBSD. He also mentioned that more attention will now be focused on providing a release of the 1.4.x JDK. Such developments should allow for FreeBSD to be better suited for enterprise uses."
From the German SCAT Association of America!!!
Bring it on! This will FreeBSD more...huh?
"CLEAR!"
[loud zapping noise]
"Ladies and gentlenerds... BSD is no longer dying."
Someone had to say it
IAALS.
Time for the BSD Babe post again... ;-)
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
Does anyone run this OS?
Yay.
Are the voices in my head bothering you?
Hmmm....
somebody tell me my ip address
plz k thx bye
What about developement for MacOSX, can't that be used?
Does anyone know if it will be an open casket? Please send my deepest sympathy to the community, especially Uncle AT&T.
there is no $699 licensing fee for BSD. Good Day, you fucking teabaggers.
Proud patriot and republican voter.
but "binary only" probably means "x86-32 binary based upon libs from FreeBSD 3.1"
I'm still waiting for a PowerPC(G3/750cx) build of J2DK 1.4.1. Sun won't offer it, blackdown won't offer it, and IBM's build just promptly segaults when run.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
such binary releases of virtual machines would much easier if the FreeBSD development would decide to fully embrace a microkernel architecture for FreeBSD.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
Can you run BSD on AMD Opteron?
For those of you wondering wtf he's talking about, a cute chick in red plastic dressed as the BSD devil got lauded at some convention somewhere.
Here's the link to the post, lots of pictures.
When every one of you Java coding losers will wake up and realise how incompetent you are.
Java has set the industry back 10 years, and I blame you for it.
Despite popular belief, a defibrillators doesn't raise the dead.
A defibrillator only helps people with acute ventricular fibrillation and keeps them from dying.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
This story has 8 story icons associated with it.
:)
They shoulda thrown in the "Games" icon too, since after all, there are some Java games out there.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Ok, this is probably a stupid question that could probably be solved by a little googling, but I shall ask anyway, does this mean that Java can finally be run on FreeBSD or is this just a native port of a JVM (where previous JVM's have been running in some form of emulation) ?
Is it only now that FreeBSD people can run Java code ?
Sorry if this is stupid but I have never played with FreeBSD.
chris at darkrock dot co dot uk
http colon slash slash www dot darkrock dot co dot uk
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dead
This doesn't mean that you previously couldn't run Java on FreeBSD. You could previously built a native java binary (though you needed to install the Linux JDK first) or you could run the Linux JDK directly.
Now the FreeBSD binaries are certified by Sun (which apparently is hard as anything to get done) and they can be distributed directly as a binary.
Why has it taken so long.
Why are BSD people still using FreeBSD? Come on, dudes, the action (in addition to all the apps, jdk's, etc) is on Mac OS X. It is the most advanced BSD (nay, most advanced OS, period) out there today! All based on BSD, but with the added goodness of Apple! Throw it on a G5, the worlds fastest PC, and have a good laugh at your Windows and Linux using loser friends.
Does this version actually include support for native threads? IIRC, there has been a "native" version of the JDK for FreeBSD for a while now but it only supported green threads when I last looked.
(Score:-1, Wrong)
Kernel collector: Bring out your dead!
Troll: Here's one.
Kernel collector: Ninepence.
BSD:I'm not dead!
Kernel collector: What?
Troll: Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
BSD: I'm not dead!
Kernel collector:'Ere. He says he's not dead!
Troll:Yes, he is.
BSD:I'm not!
Kernel collector:He isn't?
Troll:Well, he will be soon. He's very outdated.
BSD:I'm getting updates!
Troll: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
Kernel collector: Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
BSD: I don't want to go off the net!
Troll: Oh, don't be such a microkernel.
Kernel collector: I can't take him.
BSD: I feel stable!
Troll:Well, do us a favour.
Kernel collector: I can't.
Troll: Well, can you hang around a couple of processes? He won't be long.
Kernel collector:No, I've got to go to Microsofts. They've lost 4 today.
Troll:Well, when's your next round?
Kernel collector:Thursday.
BSD:I think I'll go for a compile.
Troll:You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do?
BSD: [singing]
I have Java! I have Java!
*Twack*
Troll: Ah, thanks very much.
Kernel collector: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 14.9).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 14.9).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 14.9).
Banaaaana!
It is common knowledge that *BSD is dying, that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The loss of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is extremely sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.
Fact: *BSD is dying
Java and BSD, the perfect recipe for an unstable operating system.
wow... first time I've ever seen the Bene Gesserit Litany against Fear written in 1337 ...
mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
This post does *not* deserve a "troll" rating.
Finding God in a Dog
The record is clear on one thing: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As the situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shroud over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
Looking at various comparisons over the last few months it looks as though Java runs faster under linux, even using linux emulation under FreeBSD is quicker than the native JVM.
I hope this brings FreeBSD up to speed.
Hassisen Kone ja levottomat jalat!
... can process Java code that's not a bit slower than native Java on Windows.
... They can just stick with mod_perl or WebWare for Python or PHP or some other truly open source technology that isn't controlled by forty-thousand corporations all with an invested business interest in competing with Microsoft.
Orrr
I swear to God, every time I hear a phrase like "suited to the Enterprise" it's accompanied by a Java, Microsoft, or IBM article, all of which have a huge interest in convincing you that in order to sell a widget on the Internet you've absolutely, no-question, gotta have nineteen layers of logical infrastructure completely independent of each other otherwise your site's gonna go down and boy are you going to pay. In the meantime, sites like Yahoo run their e-commerce off of Lisp, PHP is their standardizing implementation language, Amazon is hiring Perl programmers, and Slashdot, a site which regularly DOSes other sites by virtue of it's power to link, runs on Perl.
But if you really want to be successful YOU NEED JAVA FOR THE "ENTERPRISE". Only with Java can you take half the time to express what takes twice as much typing to code. Or maybe by "Enterprise" what everyone really means is the USS Enterprise? Maybe that's why it could max out to warp 7.
Chr0m0Dr0m!C
Since when did an operating system have to lower it's bar to become suitable for enterprise uses?
[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]
When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.
Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.
FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.
It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.
So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.
Discussion
I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.
From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.
There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.
Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.
Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?
Shouts
To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.
To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals
That is an older version of the JVM which will be missing some classes that are being used by Java programmers. So much for being up to date.
BTW, why are they only now getting around to offering the Java SDK on BSD? Is there something more difficult about running Java on BSD than on another OS like linux?
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
As you all may know, BSD has been part of the "B" team for quite some time.
The Year of Our Lord 2003 has been a particularly bad year for the "B"s,
- Bob Hope
- Buddy Ebsen
- Buddy Hackett
- Barry White
- BSD
This honored list of dead is but a small token of adieu from the many fans of the deceased.These dead were truly some American Icons. They will be missed.
This is only for *old* versions of FreeBSD. It won't work on 5.0 and newer versions. It flat out will not work.
for(;;){
Thread t = new Thread( new someRunnableClass() );
t.start();
}
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
what about the other one Red hat is contibuting to?
GNU clearPath?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
You could do before, but it was really ugly.
Installing Java required patches all over the place, and the ports system of compiling from code meant that trying to set up a server with Java (like Tomcat or Resin) would pull down a ton of X related UI stuff that you'd have to clean up afterwards.
On top of that, there were some stability issues because of the differences in threading models and wotnot.
Somewhat OT, but it really impressed me today when I went to the Nvidia site and clicked "Download Drivers" --> "Graphics Driver" --> "Geforce and TNT"
And saw listed for choices:
Windows XP / 2000
Windows NT4
Windows 95 / 98 / ME
Linux IA32
Linux AMD64
Linux IA64
FreeBSD
I don't know whether Nvidia's support is new (it probably isn't) but this is the first time I noticed it listed.
I was like: "Wow, people actually use this OS enough that a major graphics company provides drivers on their main download page."
Sorry if this isn't news, I just thought it was cool.
The unofficial
By Chinese Karma Whore, Version 1.0
Everyone knows about BSD's failure and imminent demise. As we pore over the history of BSD, we'll uncover a story of fatal mistakes, poor priorities, and personal rivalry, and we'll learn what mistakes to avoid so as to save Linux from a similarly grisly fate.
Let's not be overly morbid and give BSD credit for its early successes. In the 1970s, Ken Thompson and Bill Joy both made significant contributions to the computing world on the BSD platform. In the 80s, DARPA saw BSD as the premiere open platform, and, after initial successes with the 4.1BSD product, gave the BSD company a 2 year contract.
These early triumphs would soon be forgotten in a series of internal conflicts that would mar BSD's progress. In 1992, AT&T filed suit against Berkeley Software, claiming that proprietary code agreements had been haphazardly violated. In the same year, BSD filed countersuit, reciprocating bad intentions and fueling internal rivalry. While AT&T and Berkeley Software lawyers battled in court, lead developers of various BSD distributions quarreled on Usenet. In 1995, Theo de Raadt, one of the founders of the NetBSD project, formed his own rival distribution, OpenBSD, as the result of a quarrel that he documents on his website. Mr. de Raadt's stubborn arrogance was later seen in his clash with Darren Reed, which resulted in the expulsion of IPF from the OpenBSD distribution.
As personal rivalries took precedence over a quality product, BSD's codebase became worse and worse. As we all know, incompatibilities between each BSD distribution make code sharing an arduous task. Research conducted at MIT found BSD's filesystem implementation to be "very poorly performing." Even BSD's acclaimed TCP/IP stack has lagged behind, according to this study.
Problems with BSD's codebase were compounded by fundamental flaws in the BSD design approach. As argued by Eric Raymond in his watershed essay, The Cathedral and the Bazaar, rapid, decentralized development models are inherently superior to slow, centralized ones in software development. BSD developers never heeded Mr. Raymond's lesson and insisted that centralized models lead to 'cleaner code.' Don't believe their hype - BSD's development model has significantly impaired its progress. Any achievements that BSD managed to make were nullified by the BSD license, which allows corporations and coders alike to reap profits without reciprocating the goodwill of open-source. Fortunately, Linux is not prone to this exploitation, as it is licensed under the GPL.
The failure of BSD culminated in the resignation of Jordan Hubbard and Michael Smith from the FreeBSD core team. They both believed that FreeBSD had long lost its earlier vitality. Like an empire in decline, BSD had become bureaucratic and stagnant. As Linux gains market share and as BSD sinks deeper into the mire of decay, their parting addresses will resound as fitting eulogies to BSD's demise.
(Every time I post this sort of message, I get +5. I hate karma whoring like this, but once again it's time for some education.) "Amazon is hiring Perl programmers" leads the reader to believe that Amazon is running Perl in some major shape or form. They aren't. They are running Java servlets under... Weblogic, I believe. "Slashdot...runs on Perl." leads the reader to believe that Slashdot is a complicated website. It isn't. Incidentally, have you clicked on the "Friends" tab on your user page lately? What an incredibly slow response (and that isn't a bandwidth issue). None of the technologies you listed (mod_perl, Python, PHP, etc) handle any type of failure well at all. Show me a PHP-based site, hosted on multiple machines, that provides load-balanced and automatic failover of in-memory session data. I'll give you a clue: you won't find one, because it is impossible to do shared memory over a cluster of machines in PHP, mod_perl, Python, etc etc. On the other hand, I can list off a whole slew of Java app servers that can do clustered, load-balanced, full-failover shared memory without even blinking. Resin is an awesome example of an extremely inexpensive application server that currently does nearly everything you need an app server to do. Want to know a little secret? The PHP team is moving more towards an application-server architecture, because they know that the native compiled-in mod to Apache/iPlanet/etc is kludgy. They're cooperating with Sun and others on JSF so PHP will be able to speak with Java applications in a more efficient way. mod_perl I won't even bother with. The MVC model simply won't work under mod_perl. Good luck with an implementation team of more than, say, 5 people.
I am glad for BSD folks, but SUN released 1.3.1 at may 2001. Which such lag no serious java developer would consider FreeBSD as suitable platform for java apps.
Because their precious Java technology is so SeKret to them that it's taken this long for them to allow a binary distribution to a new platform - you've had to compile it yourself after clicking through a retarded number of licence agreements. I've done it, it didn't work, I hated them for it. Why should it be a struggle to use something they're trying to push as a standard. What gives?
And *then* they complain against the likes of Microsoft not wanting to adopt their technology. Guess what - Microsoft's reaction to Java is completely justified given Sun's nasty attitude problem.
Hell, Python and Perl (open source projects that make no significant profits) run on MANY more platforms and are more pervasive than a technology pushed by a multi-billion dollar commercial company with money to burn.
As a platform neutral technology, Java has utterly failed.
SLASHDOT has various personalities, and I hope to be the first to document them all:
,rsm jpe jstf od yjsy"
.
Project Manager - dude was an ex-coder (visual basic 3.0) and now is a low-level bottom-feeder working through slashdot so he has some vague ideo of the issues with technology.
Anonymous - dude is angry. Angry about something but not sure what. Against everything: hates all religions, colors, air.
Modder - points Nazi. God's irony incarnate. Why are those who have the least leadership skills always given a clipboard? Like getting a bathroom pass from the farting-kid.
Grandpa - dude is old. Waaaaayyy old. Like grandpa old. Runs a plain-text website. Talks about the early days of Usenet and punch cards. Senile.
The kid - 13 year old. Thinks coding full-time sounds like a wonderful career. Masturbates at Guiness Record Book pace.
The ranchero - Indian or Pakistani. Got his full-service corporate Internet access in Bombay or Kurachi and his call-center job. Has his PhD in math or science, feels he somehow part of the global village.
The survivalist - bro feels like if you dicuss something over and over somehow it will all be okay -- like Microsoft disappearing. Can't understand the cat is already out the bag and has humped everything in sight.
Her - d00d is a chick. A chick! Runs her blog, thinks she's a programmer.
The speller - d00d is seriously into grammer and spelling. On a site where the debate is around ideas, brother-man likes to make sure the semicolon is in the right place.
The Oz - australian d00d. "I come from the land down under, where women go and make thunder"
The napster - d00d is seriously into alternative-rock and the stealing thereof. Talks intelligently about music like one might discuss a Winslow Homer or the Illiad.
Lost in Translation - d00d cannot for the freaking life of anything find the home-row keys. o
The scientist - d00d is seriously into fractals, 3-d Math, fluid dynamics, cutting-edge chaos theory -- allbeit from afar because basic physics and calculus escape him.
The microsoft - d00d is seriously against MS. Can't stand the cursor, the fonts, the windows, the design, the icons, the sounds. Uses it extensively to play games.
The thinker - writes long missives. Attempts at humor, sarcasim, wit, and pun are laudable; posts two-stories ago.
Ben Franklin - d00d loves chaos. Every judicial ruling is "another nail in the coffin of freedom". Has third-grade perspective of common law.
The formater - d00d loves to use to create which are
"This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
To defeat Gates, Scott McNealy has finally made a deal with the devil..er..daemon..
As far as I know Windows have had native support for Java for ages. Actually since Microsoft and Sun signed an agreement about this back in 1997 that deals with this issue. So the fact that FreeBSD got this is fine but not exactly revolutionary.
Yet another cunting bombshell hit the "community" of *BSD asswipes when IDC recently confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of one single puny fucking percent of all servers. Coming hot on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more fucking market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is ingesting itself backwards, disappearing up its very own shitter, as fittingly exemplified by coming a piss poor dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a cock-sucking Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any fucking future at all for *BSD because that sorded, shit-filled, mutated testicle of an operating system is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink splashes across the accounting documents like a series of exploding bloodfarts. FreeBSD munches the most ass of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD cuntwipes Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying and its rotting corpse smells worse than a maggot, vomit, shit and piss cocktail.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the fucking numbers, shall we? OK!
OpenBSD wanker Theo states that there are a pathetic 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Oh, God, let's fucking see... The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore it's turd-suckingly obvious that there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore, by simple fucking arithmetic, there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. Surprise fucking surprise, this is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of those arseholes at Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD showed themselves to be a bunch of retarded tossers, went out of business and were taken over by BSDI who sell another special needs OS. Now BSDI is also a miserable failure, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house... pathetic.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily fucking declined in market share. *BSD is where it belongs, at death's door and its long term survival prospects are almost non-fucking-existant. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among moronic, dilettante shitheads. *BSD continues to Chew Satan's Dick And Fuck The Baby Jesus Up The Pooper. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD IS A FUCKING USELESS WASTE OF BITS AND IS DYING LIKE THE DOG THAT IT IS. IT MAKES ME SICK JUST THINKING ABOUT IT.
I have been anxious for this release for some time. In many ways it is important to have a current Java Runtime on FreeBSD. I have considered migrating everything over to Linux but then I would miss out on all of the benefits of the FreeBSD Ports Collection. I also feel the FreeBSD release engineering team and the core developers do an excellent job of managing the project. By producing a native Java Runtime I do not have not have to entertain the prospect of using Linux... [and then paying SCO for the privilege ;) ]
Brennan Stehling - http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/
Call me redundant, but Java 1.4.1 has been out for a few months, 1.4.2 was recently released, 1.5 is in development. So I can finally use Collections on BSD? Whooopee. I guess Java developers could care less about BSD anyway, speed not being the primary, all overriding, all encompassing concern.
TallGreen CMS hosting
It surely is common knowledge that *BSD is dying. We all know full well that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The loss of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is extremely sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.
Fact: *BSD is dying
You'd think that Sun would be mor eproactive in porting it to various platforms. WIth freebsd it was almost as if they were trying to prevent it.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
I'm glad to see that Sun is allowing Sun Java to be released for FreeBSD. Hopefully 1.4.2 will be released sooner or later. There are, however, some other alternatives. Kaffe (www.kaffe.org) is a project to make a free JVM. They are making slow but steady progress on that. Also, gcj is both a compiler and a JVM. Hopefully there will soon be some viable non-Sun Java alternatives.
Come on, dudes, the action (in addition to all the apps, jdk's, etc) is on Mac OS X.
Lets see.
Owned Apple ]['s - got Steved even after the 'apple ][ forever' "promise"
Owned Newtons - Got Steved.
Listened to Gil when at WWDC 1997 that 'Any machine sold by Apple in 1997 will run the the new OS'. No OS X on my 1997 bought FROM Apple machine. - Got Steved.
I'll take free Apples, free versions of thier OS, but I will not spend *MY* money on OS X.
OS X may be nice, But Apple/Jobs isn't.
Hell, it won't even reboot! Netcraft top uptimes
The announcement made no mention of this release being x86-specific. Is it in fact x86-specific? I'm trying to figure out what OS to put on a new Alpha motherboard I just got, and if FreeBSD will get me a working Sun-based Java on it, then I'll install FreeBSD.
(Significantly different uncertified versions of Java need not apply. I am not going to use an open source JVM, and I am not going to do without the JDK 1.3 class libraries. Those are just not realistic options for what I want to do.)
I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.
with much gayness,
Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.
does it work through ports?
FreeBSD is now even better suited as standard platforms for ERP systems. Good ERP systems started out on AS/400 systems which provided the most robustness. Theyve since moved to Java and Windows 2000. Supporting and consulting for ERP systems on Windows2000 systems is huge business and the first big ERP software company that will support FreeBSD will grab a new market.
And THEN we'll find work.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Good news I have set my rating to 1 and can know see 71 out of 157 bsd posts! Things are finally starting to turn around, for poor old freebsd. Good thing /. uses a Java interface.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
This announcement means that I can (presumably) finally get Freenet running on my spare FreeBSD box. I hadn't been able to figure out how to get the quasi-official, not guaranteed to be functional, volunteer java ports (which may or may not actually include NIO, which Freenet uses) installed on FBSD. I'd pretty much given up.
This is great news, even if it's binary-only! My thanks to Sun and to the FreeBSD Java team.
"BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
i'm a fucken angry AC because Slashdot banned by fucking IP Address. slashdot is censorship. and this is all because they don't like hearing the truth about *BSD
Fact: *bsd is dying
Fact: slashdot believe in censorship
Why would a user with a 5-digit UID fall for an >2 year old which is posted in nearly every *BSD story?
Discuss.
Zope.
And that's written in python, monsieur.
It smells like something's dead.
By Chinese Karma Whore, Version 1.0
Everyone knows about BSD's failure and imminent demise. As we pore over the history of BSD, we'll uncover a story of fatal mistakes, poor priorities, and personal rivalry, and we'll learn what mistakes to avoid so as to save Linux from a similarly grisly fate.
Let's not be overly morbid and give BSD credit for its early successes. In the 1970s, Ken Thompson and Bill Joy both made significant contributions to the computing world on the BSD platform. In the 80s, DARPA saw BSD as the premiere open platform, and, after initial successes with the 4.1BSD product, gave the BSD company a 2 year contract.
These early triumphs would soon be forgotten in a series of internal conflicts that would mar BSD's progress. In 1992, AT&T filed suit against Berkeley Software, claiming that proprietary code agreements had been haphazardly violated. In the same year, BSD filed countersuit, reciprocating bad intentions and fueling internal rivalry. While AT&T and Berkeley Software lawyers battled in court, lead developers of various BSD distributions quarreled on Usenet. In 1995, Theo de Raadt, one of the founders of the NetBSD project, formed his own rival distribution, OpenBSD, as the result of a quarrel that he documents on his website. Mr. de Raadt's stubborn arrogance was later seen in his clash with Darren Reed, which resulted in the expulsion of IPF from the OpenBSD distribution.
As personal rivalries took precedence over a quality product, BSD's codebase became worse and worse. As we all know, incompatibilities between each BSD distribution make code sharing an arduous task. Research conducted at MIT found BSD's filesystem implementation to be "very poorly performing." Even BSD's acclaimed TCP/IP stack has lagged behind, according to this study.
Problems with BSD's codebase were compounded by fundamental flaws in the BSD design approach. As argued by Eric Raymond in his watershed essay, The Cathedral and the Bazaar, rapid, decentralized development models are inherently superior to slow, centralized ones in software development. BSD developers never heeded Mr. Raymond's lesson and insisted that centralized models lead to 'cleaner code.' Don't believe their hype - BSD's development model has significantly impaired its progress. Any achievements that BSD managed to make were quickly nullified by the BSD license, which allows corporations and coders alike to reap profits without reciprocating the goodwill of open-source. Fortunately, Linux is not prone to this exploitation, as it is licensed under the GPL.
The failure of BSD culminated in the resignation of Jordan Hubbard and Michael Smith from the FreeBSD core team. They both believed that FreeBSD had long lost its earlier vitality. Like an empire in decline, BSD had become bureaucratic and stagnant. As Linux gains market share and as BSD sinks deeper into the mire of decay, their parting addresses will resound as fitting eulogies to BSD's demise.
It is common knowledge that *BSD is dying, that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The loss of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is extremely sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim, essentially nil. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.
Fact: *BSD is dying
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has gone on to join the "B" team. As you all may know, BSD has been part of
the "B" team for quite some time.
The Year of Our Lord 2003 has been a particularly bad year for the "B"s,
- Bob Hope
- Buddy Ebsen
- Buddy Hackett
- Barry White
- BSD
This honored list of dead is but a small token of adieu from the many fans of the deceased.These dead were truly some American Icons. They will be missed.
Waitaminute. You're upset a 6 year old machine won't run the latest and greatest software? Why is this even an issue? I can see a 3 year upgrade cycle for a machine that costs 2-5x of commodity hardware, but 6 years is a bit too much to ask for.
Now, Apache uses a BSD style license but they have an open development model which allows them to take advantage of a very large developer pool in order to stay ahead of their competition. In fact although proprietary versions of Apache exist which perform better than the official releases, SGI has put out some open source patches which generate even larger performance boosts. This is the reason why they have such a strong showing in terms of market share.
BSD once had potential but the procedural problems they are experiencing hurt it when it comes to the market. I suspect that this is probably in part because the BSD teams are not interested in such things, and that is a shame... In fact, although I labeled it as an inferior OS, this is not due to lack of progress within BSD -- it has been progressing somewhat, but rather because all the improvements they make tend to be quickly copied by their competitors AND they lack the developer pool to stay ahead of this game (a problem which does not exist in the Linux or Apache communities, though for somewhat different reasons).
I don't think that there is enough widespread support for BSD to save the operating system. What must be done is an opening up of the development process OR a GPL-style restriction on redistribution. In many ways I favor the former.
Even in a worst case scenario, I don't see BSD completely dying. I think the developers are less into competition and more into a sort of idealized cooperation. As a result, even if BSD becomes more marginalized, I don't think that it will die outright. It will most likely outlive Netware, for example.
Elegy For *BSD
I am a *BSD user
and I try hard to be brave
That is a tall order
*BSD's foot is in the grave.
I tap at my toy keyboard
and whistle a happy tune
but keeping happy's so hard,
*BSD died so soon.
Each day I wake and softly sob
Nightfall finds me crying
Not only am I a zit faced slob
but *BSD is dying.
Actually, dude, Zope smokes Java. Last time I checked, CBS ran a ZEO cluster and I don't think anyone can argue that that's a simple, low-traffic site. As for team development, Zope's seperation of content, logic, and presentation makes the various J2EE-based development enviroments look hopelessly complex at best, and a silly waste of time at worst. Oh yeah, and Yahoo does run PHP for most of their stuff, and Slashdot, which runs on mod_perl, is not a trivial site. Google also uses a lot of Python, and minimal (if any) amounts of Java. Keep trolling, though. I'm sure the Java-loving corporate ignoramuses will keep modding you up.
Subject line says it all.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dying
The record is certainly clear on one thing: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As the situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shroud over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
It's nice to have a native binary for another platform and all, but it couldn't have been too much work to just repackage a binary they already have.
Product packaging as debs for Debian linux (link to Java bug db)
It is common knowledge that *BSD is dying, that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The loss of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major marketing surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is extremely sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In point of truth, for all practical purposes *BSD is already dead. It is a dead man walking.
Fact: *BSD is dying
[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]
When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.
Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.
FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.
It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.
So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.
Discussion
I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.
From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.
There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.
Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.
Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?
Shouts
To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.
To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real