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VIA K8T800 Chipset Preview - Dual Opteron in Action
Mr.Tweak writes "It has been a long time coming but we are finally reaching the beginning stages of 64-bit mainstream computing. AMD has been the first to bring a 64-bit processor to the market with any true support in the Opteron. VIA is one of the key chipset companies supporting AMD64 and today TweakTown takes a preview look at their new K8T800 chipset with AMD Opteron 242 and 244 processors. 64-bit computing is boarding - don't miss the train!"
64-bit computing is boarding - don't miss the train!
I'll get on the train when the fare is a bit less.
I have over 70 freaks, do you?
As much as I'd love to board the train, the ticket price is a bit expensive, especially because I don't know exactly where the train goes.
I'm sure this is true for most other computer users as well. 64-bit on the x86 desktop is not really a 'mature' technology, even though it's been done before with Alpha and Itanium... I for one would hate to spend lots of money moving to an Opteron-based platform, to find out that one of my devices doesn't work or that one of my programs doesn't work. So I suspect that the risk involved (even though it's rather minimal, really) probably is going to keep a lot of people from moving to Opteron and co. for a while.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
I think the distinction between PC and RISC is quickly becoming obsolete, and so perhaps one should be including the UltraSparc IIe that's in the SunBlade 100/150, which retail for less than most new PC's.
By all accounts this is not the best of the current 64-bit chips, but I think it was the first to be offered in "PC-priced" systems.
Where have you been? I've had a 64-bit machine for almost 5 years now. ;) It's even been EOLed since July 2002.
My journal has hot
Just once, it would be nice to have a link to a motherboard review that wasn't split over 15 different sections.
'Without dragging on anymore, let's see what VIA's K8T800 chipset is capable of' - well, without dragging on any more than going to the next page after about two paragraphs...
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
The via board hinders the opteron. Instead of utilizing both on-chip memory controllers, it only uses one. You can see better results if you added a second set of memory banks for the second opteron to use.
There are more dual boards also including Tyans Thuder K8W. Rumor has it that nvidia will be coming out with a nforce chipset that will support dual opterons also.
Benchmarks
246 Benchmark
Overclocked 246
While it's slick that they had a dual proc board and all... none of the tests they used used the dual proc-ness of the system. They even indicate in their results that the second proc just threw overhead into the system.
;)
They've asked for help getting some dual proc benchmarking software. It would be great if someone could help them out. I'm really curious what that box is ACTUALLY capable of. IT's a goodly amount of horsepower with a reasonable amount of L2 cache with 64-bits of data-y goodness. It could make a heck of a "workgroup" size database server.... for a lot less than Sun's workgroup servers.
I think this next gen of procs (and their 64-bitness) is going to put another dent in Sun. First, lowend *NIX servers based on x86 put a huge dent in their pizza box market. Now, consumer grade 64-bit procs will probably start to eat heavily into their midrange market (like the 220R and that realm). In the big iron... well, that's contentious already. No need to to mess with them there
I'm down with that, as it were
There is a nice review in the latest german C'T too (issue 18 - page 36) of the MSI K8T Master2FAR board with dual opteron support, Via K8T800/VT8237 chipset and a lot of nice features (AGP, SATA, GBit Ethernet). Size constaints meant only a single memory-bus is implemented, a 5-10% speed bump on memory access. Another downside is no PCI-X slots.
The nicest thing though is the price: 280 euros. Sounds like a good workstation board.
Does anyone else think this site is a little weird? "PGA or Pin Grid Array can be separated into two parts: the first being Pin, which in this case is the small metal pins we see coming from the bottom of the processor and the other is the Grid Array." Well bless my stars! Who knew?!
True support... such as developing their own motherboard chipsets, like Intel, instead of farming the task out to VIA??
Don't get me wrong, AMD has done rather well relying on 3rd parties to develop mobo chipsets for them, but I'm not sure I'd call NOT having at least 1 in-house chipset solution "true support". If VIA and NVIDIA decided to dump AMD for some reason, they'd suddenly be in a pretty lousy position.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
... the majority of people who want to pay less for the same computers. Whenever a new super-duper computer comes up, a minority fringe with too much money (that I was once part of) blows ungodly amounts of money to get it, driving down the cost of perfectly serviceable, good, fast, but older computers for the rest of us.
So I say go AMD64 and go KIA, so I can buy those Athlons 2000+ based-machines I need even cheaper.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
#if _FP_W_TYPE_SIZE < 32 #error "Here's a nickle kid. Go buy yourself a real computer." #endif -- linux/arch/sparc64/double.h
So, the Slashdot Oracle is endorsing Sparc over Opteron? To hear is to obey, Master! ;)
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Sure, the benchmarks are impressive, but it would be nice to see more benchmarks using 64-bit-optimized software (eg. an optimized gromacs). 32 bit software just doesn't use all the power these chips have.
It has been a long time coming but we are finally reaching the beginning stages of 64-bit mainstream computing.
I guess you didn't hear about the Apple PowerMac G5 when it was announced months ago and began shipping last week, then....
Repeat after me: 64 bit processors aren't new. There's no new "computing fad" leaving the station. No new architectural wonder.
They aren't even new in desktop machines. I just threw out an Alphastation4 with a 64 bit 21064 from 1996 or something (nearly put my back out lugging the thing down the stairs. They built computers to last in those days). That was a competitor with the Pentium Pro IIRC. Many of the machines where I work were 64 bit ultrasparc before we started to go 32 bit x86.
That said, the new athlon does look pretty damn fast.
For those of you that wanted the grapics, I'll be taking an ASCII Art Course for the next one 8p
Introduction
We saw the release of the Opteron processor earlier this year which was powered by AMD's own 8131 Northbridge. With many months passed since and a lot of R&D invested, it was time to see what VIA were capable of when given the latest 64-bit processor to play with from AMD. The latest chipset to hit the market from the Taiwanese chipset manufacturer comes in the shape of the K8T800 and carries over everything you need when it comes to inserting those brand new processors into VIA-powered motherboards.
The K8T800 chipset carries over with it the latest Southbridge from VIA, the VT8237, which we were very impressed with when reviewing the PT800 only last month. It carries over the same features which we will look more into later on.
Due to the limitation in server hardware and server benchmarking software, we have chosen to write a preview on the chipset with a lot of benchmarks with different processor environments. We will help give people an understanding of the technology and the future it has.
Without dragging on anymore, let's see what VIA's K8T800 chipset is capable of when powered with some of the newest and most powerful processors to hit the market from Advanced Micro Devices.
The Opteron Processor
Before we get into talking about the chipset, we will take a moment to have a look at the processor which will be accompanying our test motherboard today.
The AMD Opteron is the latest processor to hit the market and carries the long awaited 64-bit architecture to the retail market. While we have seen Intel release a 64-bit processor to the market in the shape of the Itanium and Itanium 2 some time ago, it was one product that the end-user would not consider purchasing due to its high price tag and lack of chipset support.
The Opteron comes with a massive 940 pin count which is the largest of any processor implementing the PGA format. PGA or Pin Grid Array can be separated into two parts: the first being Pin, which in this case is the small metal pins we see coming from the bottom of the processor and the other is the Grid Array. The Grid Array is the formation the pins are in, which here is a 940 pin formation. Together we have the highest pin count currently on the market for this kind of technology. The Opteron processor also carries a huge 1MB of L2 cache to help when it comes to processor-hungry applications. The Opteron also has three Hyper Transport buses which we will look into more in just a moment.
What else AMD has in store for 64-bit
While we are on the subject of AMD processors, we may as well have a quick look at what else AMD have in store for the 64-bit market.
The cheapest of AMD's 64-bit line will be known as the Athlon 64 and will most likely be launched next month in Taiwan at Computex 2003. The Athlon 64 will be the entry level 64-bit processor and the mainstream product with a pin count of 754 replacing Athlon XP. Athlon 64 has the smallest amount cache out of the group with only 512k and will only support Single Channel DDR and one Hyper Transport Bridge meaning it is not SMP-capable.
The other processor which will be making an introduction, which seems to be confusing a lot of people, is Athlon FX or Athlon 64 FX. The Athlon FX will be the enthusiast processor, according to speculation currently floating around. Consisting of 1MB cache and three Hyper Transport buses, the only difference between it and the Opteron is support for SMP. The Athlon FX will consist of 939 pins; the pin that is missing is the one that gives it the ability to run Dual Processor mode.
Hyper Transport Buses
As we just mentioned, the Opteron and the Athlon FX will consist of multiple HT (Hyper Transport) buses, while the cheaper mainstream Athlon 64 will only have one.
One of the buses goes to your peripherals (your AGP slot, PCI slot, etc). This is the only one on the Athlon 64. The s
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Maybe they need to learn about caching so as to reduce the load on MySQL. The rest of the server is running fine, it is let down by a poor content presentation system. Why do all these sites have to generate every page from the database anyway?
I allready rode the 64bit train to DEC Alphaville and back.
Microsoft Windows runs on stress and frustration.
The benchmarking software that would give us the opportunity to test the SMP Opteron platform to its fullest extent costs many thousands of dollars (Ed. Note - If any company wishes to sponsor us with this type of software, you are most welcomed!).
Thousands of dollars? Can't they just run Apache or something on it and show transactions per second comparisons serving some complex dynamic page?
I'm using a dual Opteron (model 240, 1.4 GHz) for intensive scientific calculations. Our program, on the Opteron system, works 1.5 to 2 times faster than the 32 bit version that runs on a double Athlon MP 1800+ (1.533 GHz), depending on the algorithm.
It's like they've made two clones of that Iraqi information minister
and one of them's a Mac zealot and the other's a PC zealot.
...64-bit computing is boarding - don't miss the train!
Miss the train? Miss the train? How could you possibly miss the train? As 64 bit computing comes into the market, 32 Bit will gradually move out (not unlike 8 and 16 bit have previously done). So when you need buy new systems, you're gonna eventually end up buying into the 64 bit thing.
It's all good, but it's not like you need to buy now, or forever miss the train!
You can laugh without eating a sandwhich, but you can do both if bring one.
one dual cpu test could be
make -j bzImage
on the linux kernel. -j spaws a new process when ever possible. It is possible to limit the number of processes, with a number right after the -j. This trick naturally works on other compilations than the kernel, so just find something big, and give it a test.
Actualy when i read Toms and others test of the Opteron back when it was released i kind of missed tests that used OS tools and programs to test the system, using real programs.
Source Compilation:
Maybe you dont recompile kernels all day, but if you are a developper you compile source code, so for you a compile test is worth while.
Gimp:
Apple usualy does alot of photoshop benchmarks, so why not use gimp, a known image, and a known script for gimp to benchmark the system with that? Some people use imagemanipulation for work, so lets test real work.
It might be an idea to test other programs, possibly some engineering tool, maybe blender, or some other tool that uses the floating point unit, rather than the integer part, and or possibly something that can use and test SMP, and/or tests that is cpu bound, memory bound, (or disk bound).
Putting the various other 64-bit processors aside (and remember, there have been > 32-bit processors since the 1970s), don't forget about the 64-bit MIPS processors. There's one in each and every PlayStation 2. Yes, there's only 32MB in a PS2, but the processor is still truly 64-bit. Integer registers are all 64-bits wide. Actually, they're 128-bits wide, but there's a limited number of operations that can be performed on 128-bit values
Are we about to enter 18 months to 2 years of mostly running 32-bit apps on 64-bit hardware? (Or even longer than that, if we recall that "32-bit Win95" was really 16-bit in sheep's clothing.) And what's a "generation" for hardware? 2 years?
There will probably be some nice bargains on 32-bit boxen later this year & next, I'm sure. And they're gonna run those old 32-bit apps just fine. Then, when they wear out in 2-3 years, you can upgrade to 64-bit hardware to actually run 64-bit apps.
In other words, that first train trip is going to take you to an amusement park that's still under construction.
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)