Slashdot Mirror
Sites Shut Down to Protest Software Patents
blueser writes "I went today to TUTOS homepage to check for a newer version, and I was surprised to see that the author replaced the homepage by a 'Closed because of Software-Patents' page, with a brief explanation." Just one site? that's hardly a big deal, but there's more. maliabu writes "Knoppix is closed, apparently waiting for the European Parliament to decide about the legalisation and adoption of so-called 'software patents' in Europe." And still more. SLbigE writes "The Wine HQ website has temporarily shut down its webpage in protest to a proposed law in Europe regarding Software Patents." There's many more sites as well, these were just the first I was alerted to, Feel free to note some more in comments. Looks like they're doing a good job of illustrating what could be lost soon.
Details of the campaign against software patents can be found at http://swpat.ffii.org/group/todo/index.en.html
This post will enter the public domain 70 years after my death, unless Disney buys another extension.
Nobody patented or restricted the use of hammers and nails in construction.
So why in the hell are algorithms considered 'patentable'?
I can understand if they emulate a proprietary business methodology. Or an entire application (which really should fall under copyright law).
But patents?
Shakespeare was right. We should kill all the lawyers.
The opposite of progress is congress
Microsoft was planning on replacing there page to protest as well. Unfortunately now they are hosted on Unix, they don't have anyone in the company smart enough, who knows how to change the home page.
As has been said in previous article comments, SlashDot could close too, that would have a far larger ranging effect than Knoppix or Wine anyway.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Gimp is another...
Who doesn't like free music?
We had an interesting thread about Qemu...
It's closed too...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
RPMFind and its mirror sites are closed as well. Not the front page, but after a search query you get the warning. They say it's temporarily though.
Like science? Comics? Wicked...
Funny By Nature
SCO obviously felt so strongly about this that they got started a few days early! They're good folks, always doing their best for the community.
"Are you being weird, or sarcastic?" said Emma. I said I didn't know because I get the two feelings mixed up.
This letter is worth reading ...
gtk is another site that is protesting. Good though, if you look at the rubbish pattens which are already registered (illegally) in Europe, ...
Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, "Today I will be brilliant."
Apparently this protest (and the physical one) may have had some effect, in that the EU vote has been delayed according to LWN. Let's hope this additional time is beneficial to the anti-patent cause...
Come on guys, this is what the US community should have done to protest the DMCA, and the range of RIAA abuses that are being seen.
Lets not be silly and take it down for ever, but why not have an official protest day? Slashdot, Freshmeat, maybe even some of the Corporates.
And the time for this ? How about we start it on the same date as the end of the First World War ?
November 11th, starting at 11am GMT, for 24 hours, we declare the internet closed for business.
Are we in ? Slashdot.... are you listening ?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Now, if Microsoft's European branch went off the web or Netscape or any number of other software companies that are BIG on the commercial radar were to join in on this protest, then more people would notice... But, that's not likely to happen...
I see this too often. We geeks, as a political body, are simlpy blind to reality. Most of the sites that are currently 'down' are only going to affect fellow computer geeks. We hurt ourselves more then we hurt the opposition. There has got to be a better way to actually take some ground in a battle like this one over software patents.
Who seriously came up with this idea with the honest belief that cutting off the Free Software community from Free Software sites would somehow affect the GREATER MAJORITY (That use Proprietart y software) that simply could care less about Free Software?
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Fair point. Mind you, European politicians are still very mindful of Europe-wide protests since they are a relatively new trend and, since they get a lot of coverage over here they appear in the news a lot. However, unless a "big" site decides to close for the day, this will pass off as a joke.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
http://www.mplayerhq.hu and http://www.ffmpeg.org are both 'shut down'. but they still link to thier old homepage.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/OnlineDemoPartnersWeb sites
for a full list of website participating in the action.
You can also add your web site if you participate in the online action against software patents.
"Slashdot is not, however, even though some have requested it be taken down for the day..."
Well, someone has to be up to let people know what is going on.
I totally agree with the parent poster. CLOSE SLASHDOT. A majority of people on these forums are always complaining about software patents and how they are going to stop any and all innovation in software development. Well, here is a chance for slashdot to spread this message far and wide.
If slashdot closed down in protest, there is a good chance that some news agencies would pick up that story. This would be good because it get this message out to people who don't normally visit slashdot, gimp, or wine hq.
Grow some balls slashdot. Shut your doors in protest!!
Seems to me that a lot of the sites that are shutting down for the day are ones that are frequented by people who are already aware of the issue. Also, they aren't sites that most people would visit on a daily basis. It would be nice to see some more general, more widespread sites shut down for the day. I'm not talking about geek sites, I'm talking sites like google, BBC, Yahoo, E-bay, and other big name sites. Could you imagine the effect of these sites closing down? I think it would get the attention of a lot more people, and people who weren't already aware of the issue.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Slashdot has a large contingent of non-American readers. It's News for Nerds, not News for Nerds Who Live in the United States of America. Stories about Brazil's attitude to open source and the UK's plans for built-in monitoring of cars make the front page, so why not this sort of demonstration?
Anyway, plenty of people outside the US have protested against the many moronic decisions taken there in recent years (DMCA, Skylarov etc.) - I'm sure there are plenty of people in the US who'd like to reciprocate. Stupid software laws are bad wherever they're passed.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
If you live in the EU, don't just sign the petition - email your MEPs explaining why they should oppose the motion (and reminding them - gently - that they want your vote!). Yesterday I emailed all 10 MEPs representing London explaining my concerns, and I've already received 2 thoughtful responses -- one of which was seemed convinced by my arguments.
Probably the best arguments to use are those against patenting algorithmic business methods (also covered by the directive) rather than software per se, as they're more likely to be appreciated by politicians. My example was patenting an 'algorithm' that uses a number keyed in by a bank customer to verify their identity against the account details held on their bank card. Hey presto, your "software patent" gives you a monopoly on ATMs.
You can find a list of UK MEPs at the European Parliament's UK Office. For other countries, check out the main EU parliament website. Note that each constituency is represented by several MEPs, allocated between different parites by proportional representation. The vote on the directive is next week, so email your MEP today!
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
I hate that phrase. First, lawyers don't create laws; Legislators/Congress(wo)men do (and judges interpret them). Secondly, lawyers' clients are the ones that hold the patents, not the lawyers. Thirdly, the USPTO (or the european equivalent in this case) is the one granting the patents. Lawyers are the middle-(wo)men in all this. Removing the lawyers won't solve the problem.
Sorry but I see people saying this all over slashdot. I think it's an unjustified statement that people like to throw out there when legislators make bad laws, judges interpret the law incorrectly, or the PTO grants patent they shouldn't have.
Anyone can be a patent agent. There is a separate patent-bar that just about anyone can take. You don't even need to go to law school or have passed the state bar exam.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
If you write software that violates a european patent and distribute it in europe (for example by putting it on a globally reachable web server), you can be sued. Not to mention that I'm quite sure that you are using software written by european developers that would certainly be affected. So stop being such a narrow-minded dork, if you will.
Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Slashdot is not, however, even though some have requested it be taken down for the day...
Yes, and here's the reason why : since the protest is about European software patents, Slashdot doesn't give a toss.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
The list of websites that've shut down is here (two and a half thousand sites so far)
My site is shut-down.
Others include KDE, Gimp, gnu-darwin, GNU-savannah, and most of the French and German linux sites.
Because the editors are out of touch. They don't understand the scope of the issue. This is the kiss of death to the OSS model, if in fact it goes through.
I've submitted 3 separate articles regarding EU patent initiative since 25th and all of them have been rejected. This is just another case of ignorance on part of American OSS supporters ignoring what goes on outside of US, and later bitch and moan for years why the laws are unjust.
For fuck's sake, I live in California and I'm horrified of the fallout that might result from this.
None of these sites shut down. They simply replaced their index page with the statement, which also provided links to the old index. Hardly shutting down.
Here is an example: although the GIMP web site is hosted in the US, several of the most active developers are living and working in Europe. So after some discussion with the other developers, I decided to close the home page of www.gimp.org. Even if you live and work in the U.S., you could be affected because some software developed by many contributors from all around the world could cease to exist because of software patents affecting these developers.
Allowing patents on software and business methods in the U.S. was a bad idea. Several studies have shown that software patents in the U.S. have had a negative impact on the industry. But so far, the damage has been limited because these patents are not accepted worldwide. So in many cases, a company that was more interested in litigation than real innovation was not able to sue the developers who (unknowingly) infringed on its patents because some or all of them were not in the U.S. But this could be different if these patents were valid worldwide (WIPO). The patent holders would have a bigger chance to hit the small companies and small developers, especially those working on Open Source or Free Software (because they cannot buy a license or pay royalties for all potential users).
This protest against the changes in the European law would also be a good way to promote a necessary reform of the U.S. patent system. A growing number of economists in the U.S. are raising their voice against the patentability of software. A clear sign coming from Europe could also help the U.S. industry in the long run.
Some people hide in their shell when their neighbors are threatened. Some people try to help them because they know that they could be affected directly or indirectly. The choice is yours.
-Raphaël
We have software patent laws in the US and slashdot is in the US so slashdot would be protesting a law that were already enacted in the US. I dont think it would be helpful to shut down slashdot. if slashdot were shut down, a lot of people would not know about the protest and lots of other news.
The Television Wiki
These site shutting down in protest is not very professional. This is one of the problems with the free software community, politics plays too heavy of a role in their actions.
If you are too timid to take actions that are going to inconvenience somebody you will never be noticed. Software patents are serious. You lose your Linux dodad today; software patents could eventually make you lose them forever.
For instance, do you really believe that the labor movement would ever have gotten anywhere if they never held any strikes? That the civil rights movement would have gotten anywhere if they never got in anybody's face?
The road to hell is paved with business as usual. Shutting down your websites may be "unprofessional", but it makes a meaningful protest that gets across the point of just how serious these sites believe the issue is.
-Rob
Yes, closing Slashdot may be preaching to the choir, but at this late stage in the game, this is exactly what can be most effective.
We need the EU folks reading Slashdot to get a jolt, to say, "Hey, this really is something Big." We need this, because this is the only way that many of them -- just like Americans -- will take the time to fire off their position to their representatives who have both the duty to represent their constituents and the power to stop this in its tracks.
And Slashdot, what is going to earn you more good will among your readership than taking a bold stand like this? Perhaps there would be more willing to subscribe -- at least for a month -- if they were to see you as politically active and not just a disinterested for-profit news portal.
C'mon Slashdot, even just a prominent alert that could stay at the top of front page. Isn't it for the good of everyone?
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
While it focusses on reforming copyright laws, most of what I say applies to patents. Note that in the U.S. at least, patents have the same legal foundation as copyrights, being authorized by the same clause in the Constitution.
The steps I suggest are:
- Speak Out
- Vote
- Write to Your Elected Representatives
- Donate Money to Political Campaigns
- Support Campaign Finance Reform
- Join the Electronic Frontier Foundation
- Practice Civil Disobedience
Well I don't think the EFF deals with patents but they do a lot of other good work.The above article is going to be put under a Creative Commons license to encourage copying as soon as I have the final draft done. I expect that to happen this weekend. So check back and copy the article to other websites when it's ready.
Also I closed my consulting business website a couple days ago and will keep it that way a couple more days.
While I don't get a huge amount of traffic to my homepage, I also don't expect most of the people visiting it to already be free software enthusiasts who know all about the patent controversy.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
...and in the meantime, link main page of Slashdot to the EU parliament, asking people to write petitions, visit all its pages etc... Effectively slashdotting it to a crawl - showing what REAL POWER stands behind the protesters.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
but it should be remembered that some of the support for such changes in Europe comes from US companies, and that US intitiatives such as DMCA help provide a precedent for similar moves elsewhere. It's a global world out there :-) . If the EU gets bogged down in this, it may come back to bite at people in the US.
It's not that it may come back to bite at people in the US, it's that it bites people in the US every day, because the laws being considered in the EU are not that different from the laws those of us in the US already have to live with.
If Slashdot's going to protest, it should place more prominance on repealing or fixing the existing laws in the US than on preventing the laws from being enacted in the EU.
-PainKilleR-[CE]
Worse case senario: Free software is defeated.
Free software goes underground. Geeks start sharing software through encrypted peer to peer networks. Non-geeks end up buying high priced crud from M$.
M$ and the RIAA companies get richer, and root out the last vestiges of free software on the net. Geeks build elaborate screen savers that look like a M$ windoze box - for when guests are around, but run Linux and free software underneath the hood.
The Senate convenes a new 'Un-American Activities' commitee, and brings prominent geeks in for public 'questioning' (ridicule). These geeks are blacklisted, and can not find work. This serves to make other geeks 'tow the line', or at least pretend to.
After a decade of low wages, persecution, and social programs intent on 'Microsoftizing' the populance, the well of available geeks runs dry. Geeks, themselves, no longer pass on the arcane subjects of computers to their children, instead opting to teach them candle making, and send them to seminary.
Over the next 20 years all remaining geeks retire from the workforce. There are no new systems built. All existing systems are kept running by non-geeks who use cargo-cult methods, not really understanding how it works. If a system breaks down - it does not get fixed. Slowly the network deteriorates; world wide communications become extinct. The Digital Dark Age lasts for ten thousand years, until some proto-geek reinvents the computer and the silicon chip.
Is this the future we want for our children? Make a difference - now!
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
This is one of the problems with the free software community, politics plays too heavy of a role in their actions.
Um, Earth to TedCheshireAcad, come in TedCheshireAcad. The "free software" movement is a social movement-- everything that happens in the movement is a political act. Just writing software and giving it away is a political act. Your concerns about your "clients" sounds a lot more like the rhetoric of the Open Source movement to me.
Besides, if you go to set up a "[GNU/]Linux-doodad for a client", maybe as a professional (and someone with half a clue) you should be prepared for network outages and things like that. Relying on a web site on the other side of the Atlantic is the worst risk management ever. You need to have all your software and tools readily available on CD-ROM, I think. I mean, were you going to install Windows over the net by just going to some web site?
Moderators: please mod parent down in spite of his request that you "do your worst". Notes like that to moderators ought to garnish at least a -1 just for putting that little challenge to the moderators.
I do not have a signature
I for one knew nothing about it, or how it would affect me. Now I do, and if they ever needed a signature against it, I would sign. Because I was made aware though this protest.
Software patents are serious.
Yes, they are serious. I've been bombarding my local MEPs about it. And recently I got a very interesting response.
It made me think that maybe we misunderstand the proposal - especially after it was recently been amended.
I quote directly from Article 4a:
Exclusions from patentability:
A computer-implemented invention shall not be regarded as making a technical contribution merely because it involves the use of a computer, network or other programmable apparatus. Accordingly, inventions involving computer programs which implement business, mathematical or other methods and do not produce any technical effects beyond the normal physical interactions between a program and the computer, network or other programmable apparatus in which it is run shall not be patentable.
Justification
This, in conjunction with the corresponding recital, provides clarification that simply specifying technical means is not enough for patentability. There must be a technical contribution. It also makes it clear that the computer implementation of a business method simpliciter is not a patentable invention."
IANAL but to me that satisfies everything we, as Free Software advocates, are seeking? Why are we so strongly opposing this? If you read the full directive, it sounds fairly sensible.
Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary
It is, but the problem is bigger than that. Software patents are a threat to Open Source in much the same way that nuclear war is a threat to beekeepers. Almost everyone who writes software has this sword hanging over their necks, the only real exceptions being people who are at companies who have large patent portfolios and can cross-license. Those programmers are a minority.
I develop and maintain proprietary software for a living, and like every other programmer in the world, I have no idea how many patents I routinely violate every week. The only reason it hasn't been an issue (so far) is that our source is closed so it would be pretty hard for a hostile outsider to know what patents I violate, too. But if there ever were a conflict that somehow resulted in us having to reveal our source, the risk .. well, the risk is
unknown. And that's pretty scary.
A litigeous situation like that is unlikely because we're so small and our competition isn't very heated. No one has much to gain from harming us. But I can easily imagine situations where larger companies who are battling for big stakes, could find patent violations in one another products. (Look at how IBM responded to SCO. Never mind that SCO were the bad guys in this fight -- IBM could have done that to anybody.)
The kind of patent violations I'm talking about aren't "IP theft" or lazy followers copying true leaders' work. It's just people doing their jobs and solving problems the way any programmer should solve problems. Problem solving is what we do every day. And it's not like we're all these brilliant Edisons and Franklins who are inventing these insightful things all the time; it's just that with software, there's a simple process (that does not require genious) for arbitrarily piling layer upon layer to create immense complexity. And whatever you come up with, there's a reasonable chance that someone might have a patent on it. This is not what patents were intended to cover!
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that most proprietary and internal services programmers should be just as concerned about software patents as Free Software and Open Source developers. This is a much bigger problem and I think the publicity needs to get that message across.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Accidentally hit reset on a few well chosen machines all at the same time -- say maybe midnight GMT tonight.
I bet the shock to the Internet would be nothing compared to the political earthquake of headlines reading "Slashdot readers bring down Internet in protest over software patents."
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
- Industrial application: the EPO interprets this as "usable in a way that makes money". Don't believe me? One of the biggest proponents of software patents said so himself in the JURI meeting, when other proponents mentioned they were afraid that this requirement would exclude too many software patents.
- Technical effect: first of all, the "normal physical interaction between a program and the computer" is nowhere defined. Furhter, technical is also nowhere defined (and they don't want to define it, they say it has to follow from case law). In other words, you need anundefined effect apart from something which is not defined, so what could that be? Plenty of things, it turns out (see the heading "When is something technical"). Examples: processing data representing an image, saving memory, increasing speed, using computers instead of humans to process secret/private/sensitive data and automating a known process if the automated process provides surprising speed or economy of scale benefits.
Keep in mind that the directive is designed to legalise all software patents that have been illegally granted until now by the EPO. You can find some examples of patents which such "technical effects" here and here.For information on her other claims, please read the the English translation of the letter I sent to most Flemish MEPs, as well as this short overview of why software patents are bad.
Thanks for writing your MEPs, and keep it up!
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