Slashdot Mirror
Sites Shut Down to Protest Software Patents
blueser writes "I went today to TUTOS homepage to check for a newer version, and I was surprised to see that the author replaced the homepage by a 'Closed because of Software-Patents' page, with a brief explanation." Just one site? that's hardly a big deal, but there's more. maliabu writes "Knoppix is closed, apparently waiting for the European Parliament to decide about the legalisation and adoption of so-called 'software patents' in Europe." And still more. SLbigE writes "The Wine HQ website has temporarily shut down its webpage in protest to a proposed law in Europe regarding Software Patents." There's many more sites as well, these were just the first I was alerted to, Feel free to note some more in comments. Looks like they're doing a good job of illustrating what could be lost soon.
Is also shut down.
If you can read this sig - the bitch fell off.
Details of the campaign against software patents can be found at http://swpat.ffii.org/group/todo/index.en.html
This post will enter the public domain 70 years after my death, unless Disney buys another extension.
Nobody patented or restricted the use of hammers and nails in construction.
So why in the hell are algorithms considered 'patentable'?
I can understand if they emulate a proprietary business methodology. Or an entire application (which really should fall under copyright law).
But patents?
Shakespeare was right. We should kill all the lawyers.
The opposite of progress is congress
Microsoft was planning on replacing there page to protest as well. Unfortunately now they are hosted on Unix, they don't have anyone in the company smart enough, who knows how to change the home page.
As has been said in previous article comments, SlashDot could close too, that would have a far larger ranging effect than Knoppix or Wine anyway.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Gimp is another...
Who doesn't like free music?
We had an interesting thread about Qemu...
It's closed too...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
MRTG has also joined the fight.
I noticed the protest yesterday on this site although it appears the protest has been removed today. I was thinking about asking him what it was all about.
PicoSQL seems to be the home of an up and coming open source SQL server.
Just adding this one to the list Freshrpms.net
I hold the "Words on a webpage" patent. It turns out that all of you will have to pay me royalty fees! I want 1 penny for every word on a webpage... I should be a trillionare by the end of the hour.
Seriously though, does anybody have a link to the actual patents filed that contain references to "scrolling within a window", or "progress bars"? I'd be interested in looking over the legal ramifications in the US...
"It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
RPMFind and its mirror sites are closed as well. Not the front page, but after a search query you get the warning. They say it's temporarily though.
Like science? Comics? Wicked...
Funny By Nature
What message is this supposed to send? Why would the EU change its mind because a few sites decided to protest? How does the absence of a few sites hurt the EU? More likely, they'll only hurt themselves.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
SCO obviously felt so strongly about this that they got started a few days early! They're good folks, always doing their best for the community.
"Are you being weird, or sarcastic?" said Emma. I said I didn't know because I get the two feelings mixed up.
This letter is worth reading ...
gtk is another site that is protesting. Good though, if you look at the rubbish pattens which are already registered (illegally) in Europe, ...
Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, "Today I will be brilliant."
Apparently this protest (and the physical one) may have had some effect, in that the EU vote has been delayed according to LWN. Let's hope this additional time is beneficial to the anti-patent cause...
Come on guys, this is what the US community should have done to protest the DMCA, and the range of RIAA abuses that are being seen.
Lets not be silly and take it down for ever, but why not have an official protest day? Slashdot, Freshmeat, maybe even some of the Corporates.
And the time for this ? How about we start it on the same date as the end of the First World War ?
November 11th, starting at 11am GMT, for 24 hours, we declare the internet closed for business.
Are we in ? Slashdot.... are you listening ?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
You can find a list of sites closed at this link but I suppose many more closed on Ago 27th.
www.apache.org
Now, if Microsoft's European branch went off the web or Netscape or any number of other software companies that are BIG on the commercial radar were to join in on this protest, then more people would notice... But, that's not likely to happen...
I see this too often. We geeks, as a political body, are simlpy blind to reality. Most of the sites that are currently 'down' are only going to affect fellow computer geeks. We hurt ourselves more then we hurt the opposition. There has got to be a better way to actually take some ground in a battle like this one over software patents.
Who seriously came up with this idea with the honest belief that cutting off the Free Software community from Free Software sites would somehow affect the GREATER MAJORITY (That use Proprietart y software) that simply could care less about Free Software?
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
http://www.mplayerhq.hu and http://www.ffmpeg.org are both 'shut down'. but they still link to thier old homepage.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/OnlineDemoPartnersWeb sites
for a full list of website participating in the action.
You can also add your web site if you participate in the online action against software patents.
While I applaud each site's initiative, obscure nerd sites are hardly going to influence the decisions of techno-illiterate politicians likely to vote on this. Now if amazon.com, wsj.com or freshyoungboys.com closed down, they might take notice.
It should be noted that the "official" day for doing this was the 27th August, and that all the sites I've seen have not shut down, but simply replaced their front page with information on the protest, and then included a link to the original project anyway.
sure us nerds know about it, but joe public or mr european parliament bozo? don't fink it's gonna change their day.
but still, kudos to the sties that did.
"if i'd known it was harmless, i'd have killed it myself"
"Slashdot is not, however, even though some have requested it be taken down for the day..."
Well, someone has to be up to let people know what is going on.
I totally agree with the parent poster. CLOSE SLASHDOT. A majority of people on these forums are always complaining about software patents and how they are going to stop any and all innovation in software development. Well, here is a chance for slashdot to spread this message far and wide.
If slashdot closed down in protest, there is a good chance that some news agencies would pick up that story. This would be good because it get this message out to people who don't normally visit slashdot, gimp, or wine hq.
Grow some balls slashdot. Shut your doors in protest!!
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that Apache is down too.
Sigh... they had to choose the last bloody day I can download anything before I move (after which I'll be without Internet access for a week).
(Then again I can probably hold off on installing a webserver until my net access is back.)
List of participating site can be found here.
Join in, and contact your MEPs if you are a citizen of an EU member country.
Seems to me that a lot of the sites that are shutting down for the day are ones that are frequented by people who are already aware of the issue. Also, they aren't sites that most people would visit on a daily basis. It would be nice to see some more general, more widespread sites shut down for the day. I'm not talking about geek sites, I'm talking sites like google, BBC, Yahoo, E-bay, and other big name sites. Could you imagine the effect of these sites closing down? I think it would get the attention of a lot more people, and people who weren't already aware of the issue.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Slashdot has a large contingent of non-American readers. It's News for Nerds, not News for Nerds Who Live in the United States of America. Stories about Brazil's attitude to open source and the UK's plans for built-in monitoring of cars make the front page, so why not this sort of demonstration?
Anyway, plenty of people outside the US have protested against the many moronic decisions taken there in recent years (DMCA, Skylarov etc.) - I'm sure there are plenty of people in the US who'd like to reciprocate. Stupid software laws are bad wherever they're passed.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
If you live in the EU, don't just sign the petition - email your MEPs explaining why they should oppose the motion (and reminding them - gently - that they want your vote!). Yesterday I emailed all 10 MEPs representing London explaining my concerns, and I've already received 2 thoughtful responses -- one of which was seemed convinced by my arguments.
Probably the best arguments to use are those against patenting algorithmic business methods (also covered by the directive) rather than software per se, as they're more likely to be appreciated by politicians. My example was patenting an 'algorithm' that uses a number keyed in by a bank customer to verify their identity against the account details held on their bank card. Hey presto, your "software patent" gives you a monopoly on ATMs.
You can find a list of UK MEPs at the European Parliament's UK Office. For other countries, check out the main EU parliament website. Note that each constituency is represented by several MEPs, allocated between different parites by proportional representation. The vote on the directive is next week, so email your MEP today!
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
I hate that phrase. First, lawyers don't create laws; Legislators/Congress(wo)men do (and judges interpret them). Secondly, lawyers' clients are the ones that hold the patents, not the lawyers. Thirdly, the USPTO (or the european equivalent in this case) is the one granting the patents. Lawyers are the middle-(wo)men in all this. Removing the lawyers won't solve the problem.
Sorry but I see people saying this all over slashdot. I think it's an unjustified statement that people like to throw out there when legislators make bad laws, judges interpret the law incorrectly, or the PTO grants patent they shouldn't have.
Anyone can be a patent agent. There is a separate patent-bar that just about anyone can take. You don't even need to go to law school or have passed the state bar exam.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
My site, http://goatse.cx was also shut down. Needles to say the politicians in Brussels were in a state of panic and despair yesterday and we now expect this law to be thrown out. We just had to show them what they'd lose if they passed it.
Sincerely,
Goatse Man
If you write software that violates a european patent and distribute it in europe (for example by putting it on a globally reachable web server), you can be sued. Not to mention that I'm quite sure that you are using software written by european developers that would certainly be affected. So stop being such a narrow-minded dork, if you will.
Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Does anyone have a plan for getting rid of software patents in the US? I mean, you can't just one day say "Ok, no new software patents and all old software patents a null and void". It'll never happen. There's simply too much money involved and that money is being used to ensure software patents continue.
I think the only way to change things is to convince big business that they are hurting themselves more by patenting software than by allowing it to be free. But to do that when companies are making millions from patents right now?
Because the editors are out of touch. They don't understand the scope of the issue. This is the kiss of death to the OSS model, if in fact it goes through.
I've submitted 3 separate articles regarding EU patent initiative since 25th and all of them have been rejected. This is just another case of ignorance on part of American OSS supporters ignoring what goes on outside of US, and later bitch and moan for years why the laws are unjust.
For fuck's sake, I live in California and I'm horrified of the fallout that might result from this.
Here is an example: although the GIMP web site is hosted in the US, several of the most active developers are living and working in Europe. So after some discussion with the other developers, I decided to close the home page of www.gimp.org. Even if you live and work in the U.S., you could be affected because some software developed by many contributors from all around the world could cease to exist because of software patents affecting these developers.
Allowing patents on software and business methods in the U.S. was a bad idea. Several studies have shown that software patents in the U.S. have had a negative impact on the industry. But so far, the damage has been limited because these patents are not accepted worldwide. So in many cases, a company that was more interested in litigation than real innovation was not able to sue the developers who (unknowingly) infringed on its patents because some or all of them were not in the U.S. But this could be different if these patents were valid worldwide (WIPO). The patent holders would have a bigger chance to hit the small companies and small developers, especially those working on Open Source or Free Software (because they cannot buy a license or pay royalties for all potential users).
This protest against the changes in the European law would also be a good way to promote a necessary reform of the U.S. patent system. A growing number of economists in the U.S. are raising their voice against the patentability of software. A clear sign coming from Europe could also help the U.S. industry in the long run.
Some people hide in their shell when their neighbors are threatened. Some people try to help them because they know that they could be affected directly or indirectly. The choice is yours.
-Raphaël
We have software patent laws in the US and slashdot is in the US so slashdot would be protesting a law that were already enacted in the US. I dont think it would be helpful to shut down slashdot. if slashdot were shut down, a lot of people would not know about the protest and lots of other news.
The Television Wiki
FAX Is more appropiate. Document what you did in the community tool http://aktiv.ffii.org Dont' spam. Be polite. Ask for amendments to McCarthys proposal. So read the texts on swpat.ffii.org first. Demand a definition of technical in the directive. Tell them you don't want Amazon vs. Barnes and Noble in the EU. Or MS vs. Eolas (500 mio $) or other patent privateers. Tell them what the W3C says.
Yes, closing Slashdot may be preaching to the choir, but at this late stage in the game, this is exactly what can be most effective.
We need the EU folks reading Slashdot to get a jolt, to say, "Hey, this really is something Big." We need this, because this is the only way that many of them -- just like Americans -- will take the time to fire off their position to their representatives who have both the duty to represent their constituents and the power to stop this in its tracks.
And Slashdot, what is going to earn you more good will among your readership than taking a bold stand like this? Perhaps there would be more willing to subscribe -- at least for a month -- if they were to see you as politically active and not just a disinterested for-profit news portal.
C'mon Slashdot, even just a prominent alert that could stay at the top of front page. Isn't it for the good of everyone?
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
While it focusses on reforming copyright laws, most of what I say applies to patents. Note that in the U.S. at least, patents have the same legal foundation as copyrights, being authorized by the same clause in the Constitution.
The steps I suggest are:
- Speak Out
- Vote
- Write to Your Elected Representatives
- Donate Money to Political Campaigns
- Support Campaign Finance Reform
- Join the Electronic Frontier Foundation
- Practice Civil Disobedience
Well I don't think the EFF deals with patents but they do a lot of other good work.The above article is going to be put under a Creative Commons license to encourage copying as soon as I have the final draft done. I expect that to happen this weekend. So check back and copy the article to other websites when it's ready.
Also I closed my consulting business website a couple days ago and will keep it that way a couple more days.
While I don't get a huge amount of traffic to my homepage, I also don't expect most of the people visiting it to already be free software enthusiasts who know all about the patent controversy.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
...and in the meantime, link main page of Slashdot to the EU parliament, asking people to write petitions, visit all its pages etc... Effectively slashdotting it to a crawl - showing what REAL POWER stands behind the protesters.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
BTW, Debian is still up, but the top of the fold indicates their support of the protest.
:-)
Maybe this is totally naive, but what if we setup a "thought bank". Most patents holders need to show their idea was theirs first don't they? If someone else can show prior art (ie. newspaper article, widely available source code, etc, anything to prove that someone else thought of the idea first) then the patent is invalid.
People who think of an idea who don't want someone else to patent it can describe their idea in the thought bank. It would then digitally sign the idea and post it for search engines and archive.org to catalogue it, and thereby providing a central place to create "prior art".
Any comments on why this is a [good|bad] idea?
(and just so you know, I'm patenting the idea of a "thought bank"...just kidding
Ruby on Rails Screencast
I have to question the impact this will have. Sure, we who already dislike software patents are upset by it. But will anyone in the closed software world be upset by this? If anything, I think some larger companies will be delighted that their 'competition' in the Open Source world is taking their site down.
Don't get me wrong; I'm against software patents too. But this seems no different than if, say, abortion clinics closed their doors to protest potential anti-abortion legislation -- it's going to make the other side happier, and I doubt anyone in the EU would even notice. Frankly, I think all this is doing is inconveniencing those in the OpenSource community who are trying to download the programs, forcing those who really need it to find a closed-source (and patented!) equivalent. They're hurting their cause, not helping it. The petition someone here linked to would be a far more effective way of protesting.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
I am issuing an immediate cease and disist order re: my patent #654335436543
Which states in part:
"A method or system for demonstrating political opinions through an electronic medium."
You bastards all owe me money!
Worse case senario: Free software is defeated.
Free software goes underground. Geeks start sharing software through encrypted peer to peer networks. Non-geeks end up buying high priced crud from M$.
M$ and the RIAA companies get richer, and root out the last vestiges of free software on the net. Geeks build elaborate screen savers that look like a M$ windoze box - for when guests are around, but run Linux and free software underneath the hood.
The Senate convenes a new 'Un-American Activities' commitee, and brings prominent geeks in for public 'questioning' (ridicule). These geeks are blacklisted, and can not find work. This serves to make other geeks 'tow the line', or at least pretend to.
After a decade of low wages, persecution, and social programs intent on 'Microsoftizing' the populance, the well of available geeks runs dry. Geeks, themselves, no longer pass on the arcane subjects of computers to their children, instead opting to teach them candle making, and send them to seminary.
Over the next 20 years all remaining geeks retire from the workforce. There are no new systems built. All existing systems are kept running by non-geeks who use cargo-cult methods, not really understanding how it works. If a system breaks down - it does not get fixed. Slowly the network deteriorates; world wide communications become extinct. The Digital Dark Age lasts for ten thousand years, until some proto-geek reinvents the computer and the silicon chip.
Is this the future we want for our children? Make a difference - now!
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Just google for "closed because of software patents" and there are so many
companies doing the same.
DO NOT PANIC
I wonder if SCO is joining the protest, their website seems to be down lately a lot too!
It's up right now. Perhaps if enough slashdotters could visit them and help them protest a bit more?
It is, but the problem is bigger than that. Software patents are a threat to Open Source in much the same way that nuclear war is a threat to beekeepers. Almost everyone who writes software has this sword hanging over their necks, the only real exceptions being people who are at companies who have large patent portfolios and can cross-license. Those programmers are a minority.
I develop and maintain proprietary software for a living, and like every other programmer in the world, I have no idea how many patents I routinely violate every week. The only reason it hasn't been an issue (so far) is that our source is closed so it would be pretty hard for a hostile outsider to know what patents I violate, too. But if there ever were a conflict that somehow resulted in us having to reveal our source, the risk .. well, the risk is
unknown. And that's pretty scary.
A litigeous situation like that is unlikely because we're so small and our competition isn't very heated. No one has much to gain from harming us. But I can easily imagine situations where larger companies who are battling for big stakes, could find patent violations in one another products. (Look at how IBM responded to SCO. Never mind that SCO were the bad guys in this fight -- IBM could have done that to anybody.)
The kind of patent violations I'm talking about aren't "IP theft" or lazy followers copying true leaders' work. It's just people doing their jobs and solving problems the way any programmer should solve problems. Problem solving is what we do every day. And it's not like we're all these brilliant Edisons and Franklins who are inventing these insightful things all the time; it's just that with software, there's a simple process (that does not require genious) for arbitrarily piling layer upon layer to create immense complexity. And whatever you come up with, there's a reasonable chance that someone might have a patent on it. This is not what patents were intended to cover!
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that most proprietary and internal services programmers should be just as concerned about software patents as Free Software and Open Source developers. This is a much bigger problem and I think the publicity needs to get that message across.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Accidentally hit reset on a few well chosen machines all at the same time -- say maybe midnight GMT tonight.
I bet the shock to the Internet would be nothing compared to the political earthquake of headlines reading "Slashdot readers bring down Internet in protest over software patents."
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
Microsoft Patents Ones and Zeros
[news for me, stuff that doesn't matter]
http://linuxfr.org/
The fact of the matter is that Copyright and Patent law is completely outdated and can no longer effectively cover the sphere of creativity in the marketplace. 100 years ago, the scope of what was a written work and what was an invention was pretty easy to comprehend. It was also very clear who was the patent holder, the originator of the work.
;-)
Today, the issue is a real mess.
Software-
Software is a written work that becomes a machine when compiled and executed. It is a work that spans the two and should clearly have it's own category. Software patents for REAL innovation is appropriate. However, applications of derivates of well known concepts are simply not deserving of 17years of exclusive use.
I once had a colleague who had effectively patented the bit. Basically he had determined a scheme by which a record would either be a "summary" or a "detail" if a bit was switched. They actually successfully sued AT&T and succeeded in getting royalties.
While the use of such a technique does show a level of adaptivity and creativity, it doesn't rise to the level of "NEW IDEA". Certainly not one warranting 17 years of exclusive rights. The fact is that fundamental computer science is MEANT to apply to a limitless number of scenarios.
As far as copyrights go, it's pretty foolish to copyright something that you don't publish. Software code is virtually NEVER published. It's really a bad fit for copyright as no-one has a clue as to whether they did or did not infringe.
Clearly a new classification of intellectual property is needed in this category.
Bio-Tech-
A tremendous new force is emerging to literally turn biological information into machines. The pharmeceutical industry has existed for nearly a century treating drugs as "inventions".
The thing about modern pharmeceuticals is that their is way more at stake than the invention itself. Pharmecuetical production involves
1) Identification of a substance (or class of substance) that produces specific effect in anatomy.
2) Processes to synthesize that agent in a manner that is cost productive.
3) Development of an appropriate delivery agent.
4) Clinical trials to determine the efficacy of the product so that it can be marketed.
Each of these steps require uniquely different skills and techniques. In a way, each represents a uniquely different type of intellectual property.
Furthermore, when we look at the real "new age" biotech, there core product is often "knowledge". For example, knowledge of the human genome and how individual genes effect human anatomy. Our law is now recognizing the patent of individual "genes". Those are FACTS.
Patents aren't supposed to recognize scientific facts and truths, only inventions. However, patents are now issued to biotech firms for the knowledge of functions for individual genes or clusters of genes.
Clearly this fundamental research is a form of intellectual property. But it clearly IS NOT an invention since the knowledge does not produce a workable product, device or machine. It certainly is not a copyright, only god could copyright the human genome
Again new forms of intellectual property law is warranted to account for expensive research. Such a research is VERY valuable to humanity and an economic incentive may clearly be warranted (though perhaps not 17 years worth of protection).
Beyond that, perhaps research that produces new uses for older "inventions" should be relevant. For example, pharmeceutical companies simply will NOT invest research into known substances going of patent. There is no economic motivation. Perhaps a "IP" that would allow royalties for NEW uses of existing substances would be appropriate.
Another aspect of biotech firms is "process". The concept of "process" is embodied quite boldy in patents now. Though their relevance and applicability is often questioned. Indeed, I would claim that the a GUI software appli
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Simply cannot get to the web site today... It's pingable, can browse site initially with telnet://www.php.net 80 and do a GET /index.html.
Elsewise, no cookie when using browser...
Just hangs...
=8-(
I've heard an opinion recently, that the GPL is just a hack around the normal legal system. Basically, the free software movement did not start with changing the law. It wasn't like there were demonstrations or petitions against copyrights. Instead the legal system was simply hacked. I just wondered if that could be done again, this time with patents. Wouldn't making simple adjustements to the GPL work? Here are my (very rough) proposals ..., in any program covered by this license free of charge, however you are forbidden from using this patents in any product not covered by this license :)). Basically, what I am saying - if you cannot change the system, use it to your advantages. Any thougths on why did would or not work?
I) if you agree to use this software you must not claim infrigments of any of your patents by any software covered with the GPL 3 or greater
Also, the FSF, OSDN or whatever free software organization could register patents and then license them under the GPL with the following another adjustement
II) you are free to use the patents no. aaa, bbb,
I am writing this from mozilla, so I have some
simple patents proposals (I don't know if they are valid)
a) type ahead search
b) spam filter
c) mouse gestures
I know they are stupid (just like every patent out there). Imagine next time a nuisance like SCO happens (hey, but you infringe 100 of our patents