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Phoenix Bios to Incorporate DRM
defishguy writes "Extreme Tech is reporting that Phoenix Technologies is shopping a DRM-capable BIOS to OEMS. Reportedly the BIOS with DRM enabled allows for software to be tracked and traced from one PC to another." See also this older story about AMI.
If not, the name was inappropriate.
how long before someone comes up with a 'workaround'? As long as there are security measures, there are people with no goals in life but to circumvent those measures.
[ Don't reply to this ]
Looks like we've gotten a heads up on whose equipment not to buy anymore.
Thanks a lot.
Ah, something else to disable in the BIOS the first time I boot up.
Ah, but will we be able to use it to track Virus writers, spammers and other unpleasant people?
:)
If so.. its probably a good thing. Just make sure you don't steal anything, and if you do, use a mate's PC
Could this kill Linux or even Windows XP if it doesn't have the ability to work with the bios?
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
Why would OEMs buy something that would piss off their customers? I can see Sony doing it to their VAIOs but would Dell?
If something like this sells, it just makes custom building of PCs more attractive IMO.
There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
An OEM will also have to decide whether or not to allow an end user to turn the DRM feature off, Eades said.
This option is most likely be available for a while. You will have the option to turn off the default enabled DRM system in your computer. As more and more people become comfortable (and ignorant) of the fact that DRM is enabled (and more and more companies start enforcing restrictions via the DRM'd BIOS) we will have less and less choice but to have it enabled.
This *IS* scary. DRM in Word is *NOT*. Just to clear that up.
I'm just begining to wonder how LinuxBIOS is getting on. That project could prove prophetically useful, soon.
Until no one sells one without DRM.
That's why opposition must be raised now.
The DRM software will be shipped as a default option inside the cME package. "It's up to the OEM whether or not to insert it on the machine," he said. "We are offering it as a default option and it's up to them to remove it."
An OEM will also have to decide whether or not to allow an end user to turn the DRM feature off, Eades said.
Since when does these schmucks start thinking that I as a consumer doesnt have the right to take apart, enable/disable features, and smash to smithreens whatever shit I buy from them?
Every other product or service that we are seeing these days for sale are increasingly tipping the balance in favor of the seller. Let buyer go to hell, be the new motto.
I can understand the importance of having digitally signed code and safe code, but tracking software across PC's sound a lot like 1984 than 2004.
Rapid Nirvana
Don't do it, you're pretty easy to replace.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
... if it's ignored on another level. Remember, even if there is DRM capability, if it's not implemented *cough*linux*cough* then it doesn't matter.
Remember, Intel's Processor ID was supposed to do this too, and everyone that I know turned it off. And if this Phoenix BIOS DRM technology prevents large-scale installations from repairing computers by swapping out bad hardware, like motherboards, corporate IT won't buy it.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
...Apple becomes the only computer maker with its hands clean.
Think about it: most PC enthusiasts around here build their own computers. However, now they will be faced with DRM at the motherboard layer. No matter of software liberation, from Linux to FreeBSD, will be able to cleanse motherboards of this impurity. Apple, on the other hand, has never incorporated any form of DRM into their basic system. Sure, there's iTunes music store, but its DRM is limited to the application level. I boycott iTunes because I care about the Right of First Sale, for example.
I know that it hurts to pay an additional $2,000 for the convenience of a computer company that respects your Freedom, but trust me: once you go Mac, you don't go black, Jack!
I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
Oh, glorious day. I was so concerned that our new entertainment industry overlords would be displeased.
...Looks like the next time I upgrade, I'm trading in my P4 2.4c for a new G5 instead of a new P5. Perhaps someday Mac might be the majority not due to their software or design, but the fact that they like to have customers...
Quick, flash your PHOENIX with SCO.EXE and maybe we can get Darl to claim its thier IP and destroy it from the inside.
/* * pope1 */
This is going to be a big bitch and complain session about liberties and what not, and I agree. However complaining never solves anything. The simple and most effective solution is to *not* buy boards with these chipsets.
Also don't think that your purchase won't make a difference.
E.
Never rub another man's rhubarb - The Joker
If I was Jack or Hillary, I would have already gone through 3 pairs of underwear today.
(Note: not because of bowel control problems - that's reserved for Steve Jobs)
I found their email address, contact them and tell them how much this sucks.
investor_relations@phoenix.com
It's not only possible and likely, it has been done. Look at the cromwell bios for xbox (open source bios to boot linux)
Linux doesnt really use the bios anyways, once it boots it reconfigures the system and pretty much ignores the bios. You only need enough bios to find the boot block and load the OS.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
The best opposition to this would be and Open Source BIOS. I've no idea if this is possible, likely, or already being done. It simply seems like the best response to DRM enabled BIOS.
The OpenBios project has been in the works for a while now.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
"Initial customer feedback from the entertainment industry in general has been very favorable," Eades added.
Apparently Phoenix and their OEMs need to be re-educated about who their customers are.
I've never owned an OEM PC, but have been considering Dell for my next box. If I find Dell is using a DRM'd BIOS that I can't turn off, the box will return to Dell.
Optimisticly speaking, this development has a number of potentially positive outcomes for us:
A. Pheonix & OEMS again re-educated about the fact that customers value their privacy.
B. Hackers paying more attenting to contents and modification of BIOS.
C. Motivation for additional development of OpenBIOS projects.
D. A court case regarding the rights of customers who purchase PCs and produce content with them. (OK, this one is a long shot...)
The best opposition to this would be and Open Source BIOS. I've no idea if this is possible, likely, or already being done. It simply seems like the best response to DRM enabled BIOS.
Well, DRM and open-source technology aren't mutually exclusive. Indeed, any protection of this scope (e.g., relying on a flawless interaction between the CPU, the hardware devices and drivers, and the OS) really should be so securely implemented that publishing the details doesn't weaken it - i.e., "obscurity isn't security."
(Whether or not this level of coordination is achievable is an interesting point to consider. The fact that Microsoft's implementation of DRM is breakable by a routine, authorized use of their DirectX processing-filter functions is striking.)
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
1) Are there any?
No idea, a check around the net may come up with something. However they are specific to the board you are using...
2) How much bios code is reusable between completely different motherboards?
This again depends, on similar hardware, memory controllers, etc...
3) Will we always need a bios?
Well the other option is a ROM monitor or ipl (Initial program loader), those need to be written for the board you have, which is not trivial, esp without the hardware manual (specs, etc.)
E.
Never rub another man's rhubarb - The Joker
I'm reminded of one of the only TV commercials ever published by 3dfx. An engineer introduces his new chipset, capable of billions of calculations per second. With pride and courage in his voice, he speaks of how this chip will allow them to revolutionize medicine and scientific research, saving billions of lives. An interruption over the intercom says, "Excuse me people, we changed our minds; we're going to use it to play video games."
We have remarkable technology at hand, capable of verifying the source and integrity of data transmissions, communications, financial records, all manner of irreplacable information. We're going to use it to keep people from listening to music. Irrespective of copyright and how poor and hungry Metallica and Dr Dre are right now... that's a totally different issue. We're going to use it to keep people from listening to music. I hope somebody's proud.
-j
Pre-DRM enabled motherboards. I have quite a few Asus boards here, good up to (IIRC) Athlon 3000s. Should be good enough for a long time to come for the average customer.
What concerns me, is the addition of DRM into, say, the next generation video cards. It's all well and good to "merely" have an Intel P4 3.0 Ghz, or Amd Athlon 3000+, but what happens when Doom3 or beyond comes out and a new video card is needed? What is said new card has DRM on it, and decides not to play any videos you happen to own?
In short, where do we draw the line? Corps have finally started to get wise on the old adage about a frog and boiling water, it's high time Joe Generic does as well.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Right, but the problem is that as DRM becomes an accepted technology, your non-DRM compliant computer will go the way of the personal check. It will be one large pain in the ass to buy something online from major distributors. You'll "need" DRM. Then of course there is even the possibility of further legislation in this arena that requires computers connected to the internet to have signed OSs that booted from valid BIOSs.
But thats not going to happen. There is no government agency that can legislate "only signed OS's can use the internet". There are no hardware manufacturers willing to piss away billions of dollars in revenue so the entertainment industry can make a paltry couple of extra million.
I don't do the conspiracy thing. This technology seems directly targetted at the office workstations of the world, and is a feature that PC's have been sorely lacking for much too long.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Crippled CDs
BIOS
motherboards
Hard Drives
Consumer Audio (Minidisk, MP3 players)
Music (Buymusic.com - I have a special grudge against these guys, see my journal.)Itunes (gotta be fair, eh?)
Video Players
ect. ect. (Don't forget MS!)
This would be an excellent way for others to be educated on the general poo that is DRM, and also give regular joes a list of stuff *NOT* to buy. Perhaps a forum reviews and on breaking/ circumventing/ turning DRM back upon its evil creators would be in order as well.
Sadly, the only way to vote and be heard is with $$$, these days.
Sorry about that: We're running a bit behind schedule. We apologize to our consumers for these delays. We promise we're going to release BigBrother 1.0 very soon now. Thank you for your continued patience.
Your friends at CIA/NSA/FBI/RIAA/MPAA.
Embedding DRM in hardware is great news - it ensures that DRM will die a huge, flaming death.
Any protection mechanism of this scope - designed to work on many kinds of media, on all kinds of hardware, and on a host of operating systems - is bound to be full of holes when it's first released. Even Microsoft's audio-processing filters can be used to strip out DRM (i.e., to transform a locked sound file into an unprotected stream.)
Since this is known, the only really sensible way to implement an encryption method like this is to engage in an arms race with hackers. Release a first version, let hackers rip it to shreds, then release DRM v2.0 with those holes patched. Lather, rinse, repeat. If your encryption system has a sound basis and you're patching it in a smart, sensible way, the hacks will have to get more and more creative. Soon users will have to go to great lengths to defeat the scheme - mod chips, soldering connections onto circuit boards - so you've essentially made it tight enough that casual users won't bother. You can then crack down on the big sources of hacked media (e.g., large file-sharers on Kazaa), and voila, your scheme is fine.
But here's the key: Inherent in this arms race is the ability of the protection scheme to evolve in a robust way to patch holes. You can't do that if you create a hardware platform. Every new generation of DRM will (a) have to be backwards-compatible, in which case it can be broken on hardware running the older (unsecured) version; or (b) not be backwards-compatible, in which case you're breaking all of the old hardware.
Practical example: Look at today's media players - Quicktime Player, WMP, RealPlayer, DivX player. When new encoding mechanisms are invented for them, users have to grab a new version of the player, or at least download new codecs, to interpret files encoded under the new scheme. The new media won't play on the new players. This is greatly annoying, but users put up with it because it's software and it's easy to update.
Hardware is no such thing. Every time you release DRM version x+1, users have to download new drivers for their video card, sound card, hard drive, and bus and flash-update the ROMs on each device. Forget it. Users aren't going to put up with having to update their hardware devices every six weeks.
So, be happy: embedding DRM in hardware ensures the grand defeat of the whole thing.
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
Is there any real benefit to the user with the inclusion of this technology. I know the article claims "rovides an enhanced BIOS that allows greater interaction with the operating system"; but does this affect the users experience? Or is this simply a move to force DRM down our throats? I'm not trolling; I just wonder if there is an upside to the consumer.
"Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs" - George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
The truly big problem will be the need to repurchase your huge software investment each time you upgrade to a new machine. This will put momentum AWAY from buying new hardware. It seems the hardware OEMs will be shooting themselves in both feet if they use this.
: The New American Corporate Soviet
Loss of Control and Backdoors
Read Microsoft Aims for Protection--From Users
NGSCB + RIAA = NSA + KGB + CIA. ( R -> K )
From the Transcript of Internet Caucus Panel Discussion. Re: Administration's new encryption policy. Rep. Curt Weldon's statement
Read all of Curt Weldon's statement.Consider that as of 26 August 2003:, There are currently 22 unpatched vulnerabilities in Microsoft's Internet Explorer - many of the serous vulnerabilities Microsoft has not provide a fix to patch the hole in years!
Attestation Monopoly
Microsoft's NGSCB model for DRM content management grants Microsoft effective root digital certificate control over both software and content. It would be a monopoly even stronger than Microsoft's existing desktop dominance. Just as with Microsoft's proprietary file formats and protocols, the network effect would result in any non-dominate player or vendor facing too great a barrier to provide effective monopoly negating free-market competition.
Loss of Fair Use Rights and doctrine of First Sale
Microsoft's NGSCB DRM model also grants content providers far too much restrictive power. For example, in the USA and in most of the world, you are legally allowed to tape broadcast content for later replay ( timeshifting ), gathering evidence for making a complaint, or legitmate research. The DRM model can be used by content providers to circumvent these legal rights. Also if Microsoft or the Codec developer drops support for a format or even a particular digital key, all that content "protected" by that methord or key becomes unreadable.
The DRM model circumvents the Doctrine of First Sale, by side shifting content from being "goods" into a so-called service. When I purchase a DVD, I own that particular physical instance of that DVD and the right to view the content on it. I expect to be able to play that DVD in any DVD player I choose to, including the DVD drive in my Linux system. Also when I have finished viewing that DVD, I expect to be able to pass or even resell that DVD to any party I choose. I might even give that DVD to my local library, and I am legally entitled to do so. As DMCA protected CSS DVDs already limits what you can do with a DVD, Microsoft's plans f
But thats not going to happen. There is no government agency that can legislate "only signed OS's can use the internet". There are no hardware manufacturers willing to piss away billions of dollars in revenue so the entertainment industry can make a paltry couple of extra million.
You're vastly underestimating the momentum behind this thing.
You know the *AAs' current actions? Suing Napster, cracking down on Kazaa users, non-rippable audio CDs? Why do we think they're foolish? That's right, because they're a whole lot of effort for not much copyright enforcement.
The *AAs know this, too. These are really just treading-water exercises - making an attempt to squelch the big offenders, and plant the idea in peoples' minds that piracy = theft. It's all they can do, and everyone knows it.
Their long-term strategy has to focus on making media completely non-rippable. Digital encryption will be how digital media is distributed in the future. By digital media, I mean all digital media that big corporations want to protect - music, movies, streamed video (i.e., all TV shows), electronic texts, you name it. It's the big gun that media producers intend to wield in the future.
This isn't conspiracy-theory stuff. It's sound business sense. Just look at the trends and listen to the *AAs talk about the future of distribution - it's obvious.
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
Until no one sells one without DRM.
Nice theory but since profit margins on PC hardware is razor thin the manufactures are looking for anything to give them an edge. If DRM in the BIOS becomes common then there will be motherboards made, most likley in places like Korea, that do not have this "feature".
Another day closer to redwood heaven
yeah it boots a 5 year old chipset. Open source BIOS isn't going to happen. Most chipset vendors are extremely secretive about their chipset and by the time the chipset documentation becomes available to Open Source coders, the chipset is already obselete.
Earth to dickheads: Your main customer is supposed to be motherboard manufacturers, and then ( indirectly ) computer users. Since when is the entertainment industry a customer?
Oh wait. I suppose if you count those brown paper bags that Sony and Disney have been sending...