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2003 Privacy and Human Rights Survey Released

Privacy Digest writes "Out-Law.com, UK - Global privacy report is the most comprehensive ever . The Electronic Privacy Information Center and Privacy International on Friday released their sixth annual Privacy and Human Rights survey which claims to be the most comprehensive survey on privacy and data protection ever published. The report reviews the state of privacy in over fifty-five countries around the world. Key topics include Total Information Awareness, the public response to the U.S.A.-Patriot Act, traveller profiling, biometric identification, and other new technologies of surveillance. Privacy and Human Rights 2003: An International Survey of Privacy Laws and Developments is available free online or it can be purchased from the EPIC Bookstore."

52 of 205 comments (clear)

  1. Does it make any mention of ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... the fact that the left-leaning pro-privacy folks at slashdot still need to refer to anonymous posters as "cowards"?

    YOU INSENSITIVE CLODS!

    1. Re:Does it make any mention of ... by Moth7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Despite the funniness, this is actually a good point. I realise that for idiots like the GNAA and all the other retarded first-post whores this is an appropriate title - maybe even a little too lenient. However, if someone posts anonymously because of valid reasons (like many in the RIAA stories) then it is a little unfair. I realise that it would be near impossible to judge which to use (it isn't a simple case of "logged in user" "logged out user") without adding an extra and pointless layer of moderation. Bah. Thats just my 2 cents.

    2. Re:Does it make any mention of ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why make any distinction? Thats what the moderation system is for, is it not? So you can attach a "troll" label to posts you dont like?

      I know it's really to enforce groupthink, and keep the illusion that everyone who reads this site has the same beliefs and values.

      My post wasn't meant to be funny, or at the most in an ironic sort of way. It's kind of like saying "I love freedom of speech, so everyone shut the fuck up".

  2. Stop it by Doesn't_Comment_Code · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know this puts me in danger of being modded down.
    But...

    Privacy is not a basic human right. Not like freedom to not be murdered, beaten, or starved. There are a lot of human rights violations going on right now, but certain levels of tracking don't even show up on the human-rights-violations radar.

    Sure, denial of privacy can reach extreme levels, to the point where it becomes a concern. But I think this report is a little knitpicky.

    --

    Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
    1. Re:Stop it by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

      I don't know about you, but if every book I buy, every movie I watch, every phone call I make, every e-mail I send is being watched, catalogued, and analyzed, it infringes on my liberties, and doesn't make me very damned happy.

      The government does not have the right or the duty to effectively stalk its' citizens because it's "afraid".

      Ben Franklin still said it best: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

      Kierthos

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    2. Re:Stop it by IthnkImParanoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I consider myself a privacy advocate because I consider a high degree of privacy necessary for a free society. The reasons are too complex for me to convey clearly, especially in a slashdot post, but consider that people behave differently when they know they are observed. Would I be posting to /. if I had a camera behind me?

      All "basic human rights" fall under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So while privacy may not be itself such a right, I don't feel I can act freely when my actions are monitored.

      --
      It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
    3. Re:Stop it by Dutchmaan · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Sure, denial of privacy can reach extreme levels, to the point where it becomes a concern. But I think this report is a little knitpicky.

      You do realize that when the extreme levels happen, and becomes a concern, it is more often than not too late to make effective change.

      ..an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure seems to ring pretty clearly here.

    4. Re:Stop it by Trurl's+Machine · · Score: 5, Informative

      Privacy is not a basic human right. Not like freedom to not be murdered, beaten, or starved. There are a lot of human rights violations going on right now, but certain levels of tracking don't even show up on the human-rights-violations radar.

      The guys who wrote the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights almost half century ago seemed to have different opinion than yours ;-)

      Article 12
      No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

    5. Re:Stop it by bs_02_06_02 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then you won't mind your medical records becoming public information? It's being done right now.
      Minnesota (and elsewhere) wants to make all medical information available in a statewide database. Who has access to it? Some say that the state will only allow access to statistics without any identification of the "patient". How long will that last?
      The gov't isn't very secure. We all know that. Do you trust them? I barely trust the hospital. Who else gets this info? Insurance companies? Hospitals? Prescription drug companies? How about your employer?
      What if the gov't sells the info? Did you ever get a sexually-transmitted disease in college? Did you ever imagine every blood test you ever took will be a matter of public record? Did they keep a DNA sample?
      It'll be part of your state record. It'll follow you around for the rest of your life. Did you ever take a test for HIV?
      How about a family predisposition for cancer? What are your chances of getting that next bank loan when the underwriter starts perusing your medical history.
      Do you trust politicians? They just voted themselves a 4% payraise by hiding it in a Transportation bill.

      --
      -- No sig for you!
    6. Re:Stop it by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2, Funny
      Would I be posting to /. if I had a camera behind me?
      Well, I certainly wouldn't be posting if I had my boss behind me, but since he left 20 minutes ago...
    7. Re:Stop it by untaken_name · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

      I don't know about you, but if every book I buy, every movie I watch, every phone call I make, every e-mail I send is being watched, catalogued, and analyzed, it infringes on my liberties, and doesn't make me very damned happy.


      Yes, but from where do you infer the right to *be* happy? What can be taken away from you, while it may be called a 'right', is a privilege. We choose to call things 'rights' even though they can be taken away. For example, what right to life does a murder victim have? What right to liberty does a kidnapped person have? The only one of the 'rights' you quoted that is incapable of being infringed is the 'pursuit of happiness'. Though you are always free to *pursue* happiness, you are not guaranteed its attainment. You can pursue happiness from birth until death without ever finding it. Just because an entity promises you 'rights' does not mean you actually have them, nor does it mean that they cannot be taken away (no matter how 'inaliable' they are).

    8. Re:Stop it by armyofone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And how long until it's cross-referenced with your grocery buying habits? Tons of people have opted in to shopping club cards.

      "Sorry Mr. Doh, your claim has been denied since your shopping history indicates that you gave yourself diabetes with excessive amounts of ice cream and chocolate sodas."

      Far-fetched? Maybe...

      --
      "A revolution without dancing is... a revolution not worth having"
    9. Re:Stop it by selderrr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Would I be posting to /. if I had a camera behind me?

      Would you be posting differently if you had an ID card in your pocket, even though that card is in NO way related to your slashdot account ?

      There's a difference between being spied upon and being identifieable. Stop being paranoid

    10. Re:Stop it by pmz · · Score: 4, Informative

      The government does not have the right or the duty to effectively stalk its' citizens because it's "afraid".

      The government is afraid of its citizens. The citizens are afraid of their government. All Osama needs to do, now, is just to sit on the sidelines and cheer for both teams. The "war on terrorism" is really a red herring for more fundamental issues, where personal liberties are being stripped away in some futile attempt to protect us from ourselves.

      Why is it that in some small towns, people are content to not even have locks on their doors out of no fear of neighbors? It seems they may soon want to install locks, but this time out of fear of government.

    11. Re:Stop it by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First off, there is no US law or ordinance that I am aware of that guarantees your right to "pursue happiness." The quote from the Declaration of Independence is in no way legally binding; the Constitution is much more precise about what is considered a right, and privacy is not in there (though it is clearly implied). But the original poster's point is difficult to refute -- having your email snooped pales in comparison to the kinds of human rights abuses that take place in many countries in the world (including the US). It's a little disingenuous to compare them as if they were equivalent.

    12. Re:Stop it by pmz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reasons are too complex for me to convey clearly, especially in a slashdot post, but consider that people behave differently when they know they are observed.

      Eh? I think you just conveyed it pretty clearly. It's basic psychology...it's also why staring at animals in a zoo makes them edgey. You know, in nature the animals that stare the most are called predators.

      Funny, how the government seems to be staring quite a bit, lately. Why is everyone so edgey?!?

      Another aspect to privacy is that who holds the information is also who holds the power. Privacy keeps that information in the hands of the people, where government has to work harder to find out what they want to know. Take federal income taxes, for example. Tax forms provide so much information, that the government can use it as a tool against citizens. There are so many special exceptions, credits, and exemptions in taxes that whole populations of people are artificially oppressed while others are propped up. Any good that this imbalance does is purely superficial, when the truth is that the whole society is being manipulated to fit someone's agenda.

    13. Re:Stop it by ThisIsFred · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed! Speaking in strictly constitutional terms, the US government was not granted the power to catalogue a citizen's preference in books, movies, or correspondence. It's not an arguable point, that power isn't mentioned in the Constitution. So, "the pursuit of happiness" need not even enter into the discussion. The Constitution definitely doesn't grant that power to the federal government. There is no argument in the matter.

      I've even heard El Rushbo say, "you don't have a right to privacy." Even Rush doesn't completely understand how the Constitution works. Of course you have the right. Your rights originate from the fact that you were born here, they are not granted by your government. Rights originate from government in dictatorships and strict socialist regimes. That's not how our government works! It is assumed that you are granted the right unless the Constitution specifically mentions a government power to curtail it. The lengthy process for admending the Constitution is purposely designed so that granting the federal government some ungodly power like Total Information Awareness is almost impossible -- but only if the people give a hoot.

      How ridiculous is the alternative? To have a Constitution that mentions any possible combination of actions, "just in case?" We'd have an even more unwieldly set of laws. That all powers not mentioned are automatically granted the federal government? No! That would be outrageous!

      I'm just your typical dumb, redneck, Rebuplican, gun-toting hick, and even I can understand this principal. Why don't my fellow countrymen understand or even care?

      Help me out here! Is there a decoder ring or something I need to see the Constitution as Congress sees it? Is my understanding of the Constitution flawed?

      --
      Fred

      "A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
      -RMS
    14. Re:Stop it by canicus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can you name a right that can't be taken away? The right to pursue happiness is dependent on our life, but if our life is taken, then our "right" is removed (note that this would fall under the same category you put freedom from being beaten and murdered under). The right to speech has at its most basic physical needs. What happens if our eyes are plucked out, hands cut off, and tongue cut out? Where is the freedom of speech then? Your assertion that "what can be taken away...is a priviledge" is nonsense, because there could be no human rights violations; such violations are by definition taking away people's rights.

      That said, speech is dependent on privacy. How can I possibly make an informed decision if I am monitored about what I buy and read? Such monitoring only takes place when one party stands to gain or cesure another party. Since, ideally, a government is not a business making profit, so I can only see censuring as a possiblity.

      Likewise, there can be no real freedom of thought without free speech, because the information I can take in, and therefore possible conclusions, is limited. Given those, I should think privacy pretty essential to our rights (I do not believe that if it can be taken away, then I do not have it, as there is no right that really cannot be taken away due to removing its dependencies).

    15. Re:Stop it by kcbrown · · Score: 2, Insightful
      the Constitution is much more precise about what is considered a right, and privacy is not in there

      Really?

      Amendment IX: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

      The Constitution enumerates some rights. In that regard it may be more "precise" than the Declaration of Independence. But that is the maximum extent of that precision. The Constitution itself states that other rights exist even if not enumerated, but the Supreme Court and most other courts, as well as most people (including you, it seems), have managed to see fit to completely ignore the Constitution on this issue.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
  3. Hoping for a positive outcome by coolmacdude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I seriously have to wonder how many more years it will be before this report will be merely a commemoration of lost history.

    The average American consumer is still oblivious to the erosion of privacy that has occured over the last decade. Only radical action and broad support will stop this continuing trend.

    --

    -You may license this sig for only $6.99.
  4. Re:Of Course, by Scrameustache · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mention the PATRIOT Act, not a word on the oppresive regimes of the Communist Chinese

    RTFA!!!

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  5. Individual rights and Government by ianfs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems there's a chicken and egg senario concerning most government's and the rights given to citizens. Here in the United States the govenment is made up of elected citizens who are supposed to, ideally, work for us and pass the laws WE ask for. However, the relationship between the government and the people tends to get distorted through campaign contributions, the media, large corporations and wealthy individuals, etc... I'm not sure we've reached the level of security we want but I'm not sure it's worth our privacy. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: "Those who substitute Liberty for Security deserve neither."

    --
    "Terminate?"
    "Terminate... with extreme prejudice"
    1. Re:Individual rights and Government by Brahmastra · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The relationship between the government and the people seems to be more like the relationship between a shareholder and a company. You technically have a say if you are a shareholder, but if you own only 1 share, no one gives a shit. In the case of government, it's money instead of shares.

  6. How are things in Libertopia? by Thinkit3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ah yes, the place all geeks pine for. Well, the government wouldn't do much intrusion simply because it wouldn't be funded. But private citizens would have access to all sorts of spying mechanisms. You would have to use anti-spying mechanisms to defeat it.

    --
    -Libertarian secular transhumanist
  7. Re:Of Course, by Brahmastra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    er.. they have plenty about China and many other countries if you followed the links and read a little: http://www.privacyinternational.org/survey/phr2003 /countries/china.htm

  8. Re:In soviet russia... by FileNotFound · · Score: 2, Funny

    In Soviet Russia you kinda have no rights...

    Trust me on that one...my phone was tapped 24/7 in Russia, I still get taped when I call back there. It's the "click"...and at times you can hear them breathing...or music in the background. Sometimes they pick up before the phone connects, sometimes after. I suppose they enjoy the chats I have with my gf...

    This whole article is worth shit though. I'd dare not call it a study. They quote laws that are not at all enforced. Russia has NO PRIVACY AT ALL. Yet it's nice and blue and supposedly has laws...BULLSHIT.

    They're still hassling my grandparents there asking where I dissapeared to and why I'm not getting raped in the army.

    Russia is totaly fucked, considering that the report has failed to show that, the report is WORTHLESS.

    --
    In Soviet Russia, the television watches YOU!
  9. In soviet russia by civilengineer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Quoted from article:
    In Russia (especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg) illegal collection and distribution of data on private persons and organizations is quite commonplace. Quite popular are databases on purchase/sale of cars, car owners, passport data and foreign passport data of Russian citizens, data on real estate (purchase and sale of apartments, their parameters, location and proprietors), databases of taxpayers, information about people wanted for crimes and those who have been previously convicted. CDs with such databases are easily available on the streets and the Internet. The CD can cost from USD10 to USD1,500 depending on the subject, amount and accuracy of the data. In the beginning of 2003 a mobile phone company Mobile Telesystems (MTS) suffered a massive security breach that led to the sale of CDs with MTS's entire database of several million customers. By law, MTS was required to share information about their customers with the police and government agencies. MTS claimed that the database had been stolen and that the company had started its own internal investigation without seeking help from law enforcement agencies. The company refused to provide details as to the results of this investigation. Widespread speculation and comments from an MTS spokesperson indicate that the data was leaked by a low-paid employee from one of these government agencies

    --

    New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
  10. Soviet America scene by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I like the part about CAPS II may deny people boarding based on their composite score.

    Scene from Soviet America, next year:

    I'm sorry, sir, you are not allowed to travel. No, we cannot tell you why, that would be a violation of security; we can only tell you that you are not allowed to travel. Please return home and avoid transit. We will alert you in the future if you are allowed to travel.

  11. Re:Of Course, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The First Lady has said the best byproduct of ousting the Taliban from Afghanistan was the liberation of Afghan women. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the same thing when asked what the U.S. achieved in its war in Afghanistan.

    If the liberation of Arab women is so important to the current administration, then does that mean we'll be invading Saudi Arabia next?!!!

  12. European Convention on Human Rights by kmarius · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just to get a more official view:

    Quoted from European Convention on Human Rights (available in several languages)

    Article 8 - Right to respect for private and family life
    1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.
    2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
    1. Re:European Convention on Human Rights by Blue+Stone · · Score: 2, Interesting
      " except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

      Wow. Couldn't they have given the government a little wiggle room? I mean, talk about tying them up in a straight jacket to protect citizens' rights!

      Seriously though, thats 6 holes big enough to drive a liberating tank through, by any dishonest use of what constitutes "national security" (search and monitor everyone all the time in case they do anything bad), "public safety" (see previous), "economic well-being of the country" (monitor people's every electronic transfer of data, in case they wreck the movie and music industries, search houses for pirate material), "prevention of disorder or crime" (24-7 surveillance just in case - violence on the streets wiped out, violence in the home eradicated), "for the protection of health or morals" (DNA audits, and surveillance to make sure little Billy's boxing-gloves are securely tied on, when he's in bed and there are no blowjobs or anal shenannigans going on in anyone's bedrooms), and "for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others" (well, that just about covers anything and everything also.)

      All of this is merely qualified by "in accordance with the law" which of course is rock-solid and uncorruptible, and "is necessary in a democratic society" which means "so long as there are elections, however bought and paid for and skewed (rather than fixed.)"

      The Human Rights Act has saved us! Nothing to worry about. Those dastardly freedom-taking, privacy hating politicians are bound by hand and foot.

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    2. Re:European Convention on Human Rights by kmarius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The European countries have also agreed to follow the "Universal Declaration Of Human Rights", mentioned in an earlier article, so the government can't do arbitrary interference.

      I don't think that such basic conventions can be too detailed, because it will depend on the current technology. It may give the government a little more wiggle room, but they still have to have a proper justification. Saying that "we will keep your mails, just in case we need them later" violates the intention of Article 8. The final interpretation is left to The Court of Human Rights.

  13. Re:Timing by kaszeta · · Score: 2, Informative
    Can someone explain what CAPSII is?

    It's the new airline screening system that assigns you a security risk level based upon certain screening data.

    More info is here.

  14. What's wrong with biometrics? by Neil+Watson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can some one please explain to me what is evil about biometric identification? If having a retina or finger print on my ID prevents people from pretending to be me, isn't that a good thing?

    1. Re:What's wrong with biometrics? by arth1 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Can some one please explain to me what is evil about biometric identification? If having a retina or finger print on my ID prevents people from pretending to be me, isn't that a good thing?


      If your credit card number or password gets stolen, you can stop it and have a new one issued. If you fingerprint gets lifted and misused, what are you to do? Amputate your finger?

      --
      *Art
    2. Re:What's wrong with biometrics? by arth1 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      My ID has a copy of my finger print. I still need to produce my finger to prove I am the person on the ID. If my ID card is stolen how will the person use it without my finger?


      You're confusing the ID with the biometric data. There's no need to steal your ID. A cast can be made of your finger, and a latex glove with your fingerprint used. Then you're royally screwed, because you can't get a new finger.
      This problem is inherent in ALL biometric authentication -- you only have one set of biometrics which can't be replaced, but it CAN be replicated.

      Regards,
      --
      *Art
    3. Re:What's wrong with biometrics? by Robotz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can see it now - news reports of people being mugged for their ID cards, and having relevant digits / organs / limbs amputated as part of the crime.

      There are people out there that would do that sort of thing without a second thought.

      Anyone seen Demolition Man? The character played by Wesley Snipes escapes from the cryo prison by using a pen to extract an eyeball from one of the guards.

    4. Re:What's wrong with biometrics? by blibbleblobble · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Can some one please explain to me what is evil about biometric identification?"

      Because systems which cannot fail are more difficult to fix when they do fail.

      Also, when somebody is identified for harassement by a system which is widely believed to be perfect and immune to failure, it's a lot harder for the victim to explain why it's the system, and not them, who is at fault.

  15. Re:Timing by windex82 · · Score: 2, Informative

    This was the best site i could find:
    (little blurb from the article)

    Virtual dragnet programs like TIA and CAPS II are based on the premise that the best way to protect America against terrorism is to for the government to collect as much information as it can about everyone - and these days, that is a LOT of information. They could incorporate not only government records of all kinds but individuals' medical and financial records, political beliefs, travel history, prescriptions, buying habits, communications (phone calls, e-mails and Web surfing), school records, personal and family associations, and so on.

    In the last decade we have witnessed an enormous explosion in the amount of tracking and information of individuals in the United States, due mainly to two factors... READ MORE

    What can I do to help stop this program?

    There are at least four things you can do to help stop the blatantly un-American goal of "Total Information Awareness"

    * Educate yourself about this program and tell your friends about it.
    * Use the ACLU's "Action Alert" page to send a free and easy fax to President Bush asking him to pull the plug on this research.
    * Let your member of Congress know how you feel (locate your member here and check out tips on writing your elected representatives.
    * Support the ACLU's efforts to fight this program by joining us .

  16. Ironic for us in the UK... by advocate_one · · Score: 3, Interesting
    That this article and report comes out just as "tone" launches the idea of an e-file for every child in the UK...

    www.theinquirer.net

    >THE UK GOVERNMENT has announced plans to keep an electronic file on every child in England in a range of new child protection measures announced by prime minister Tony Bliar.

    >The children's files together with their unique e-number will be managed by local authorities in a "local information hub". The file will contain the name, address and date of birth of each child, together with the name of the school attended and whether the child is known to such agencies as the police, social services or educational welfare. Where multiple agencies are involved the file will denote which one profesional will have overall reponsibilty

    Yet again... launched to "protect" the children... and yet another place where incorrect information can have devastating consequences for the parents of a child if a mistake is made during data entry...

    Teacher notices bruises on child's torso... entry in database... social services could now be investigating for child abuse when it could have been a simple injury from a fall... but the reason might not have been entered later after investigation by the teacher however that entry will be there forever... Same child misses school several days in a row for a perfectly valid reason some months later... yet again social services could put 2 and 2 together later on and make 5...

    What's the bet's they'll try and fly this kite by saying "the innocent have nothing to fear"??? If there's anything to go by from previous cases... the innocent have everything to fear when social services get it in their minds that there could be abuse when there isn't...

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  17. Re:Traveller Profiling? by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Of course you're right, and it's absolutely idiotic. Whoever modded you as flamebait is one of those PC douchebags.

    The problem with airport security is that we're giving so much power to some of the stupidest people alive. This isn't an insult, but a fact. Conventional airport security guards are no brighter or better paid than mall security guards.

    I hear about an episode where some 65 year old woman who'd had a mastectamy is taken into the back and strip searched for setting off the metal detector. Another one had airport security guards making a woman drink her own breast milk (it was in a bottle, they wanted her to prove it wasnt some kind of flammable liquid). Women are groped by these jackasses all the time, and now they want a machine that would "see through" your clothes.

    I have no problem with security measures at airports, but you have to ditch the untrained morons in charge of them first.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  18. OT - Patriot Act by FreeLinux · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the primary "selling" points of the Patriot Act was that it would be used against "foreign" suspects. However, to my knowledge, the Patriot Act has thus far been used primarily against US citizens (big surprise). Is anyone aware if the Patriot Act has in fact been used against a foreigner yet? And, if so, what the ratio of Patiot Act vs. Citizens and foreigners is?

    Bot, I hope I don't make The List with this post. I'm sorry John, I didn't mean anything by it.

  19. Best Way to Protect Our Privacy Is... by SilentMajority · · Score: 2, Funny

    The best way to protect our privacy is to stop doing things that gives our government or entities like RIAA arguably "justifiable" reasons to strip away our privacy rights.

    Doing illegal things lead to all of us paying the penalty by losing our rights. The more responsible we behave, the more rights we'll have. Pretty simple stuff.

  20. Re:Traveller Profiling? by Kaimelar · · Score: 2, Insightful
    We know what the predominance of the terrorists look like and what they will likely look like should another attack occur. Therefore, only an idiot (Democrat? Liberal?) would hold PC over security...and they do...daily.

    I seem to remember a shocking act of terrorism in the United States that killed 168 people, committed by someone I doubt would fit into your description of what the "predominance of the terrorists look like" -- his name was Timothy McVeigh.

    If you can judge a wise man (or a terrorist) by the color of their skin, then mister, you're a better man than I.

  21. Patriot Act by Experiment+626 · · Score: 3, Informative
    A lot of people assume because Ashcroft is a conservative and the most vocal opponent of the Patriot Act in the mainstream press, the ACLU, is liberal, that the Patriot Act controversy falls along typical liberal vs. conservative lines. Actually it is much more a question of libertarian vs. authoritarian than liberal vs. conservative.

    The real reaction to this act from conservatives is more interesting and diverse. Some share the views of Attorney General Ashcroft. Others oppose it just as strongly as the geek community -- many of the articles about the act on the conservative National Review site describe it with terms like the "so-called", "wrongly-termed" or "misnamed" Patriot Act. A director of the Cato Institute raised many interesting questions about the act, to which the Justice Department wrote up a reply.

    Also worth looking at is the Justice Department's own Patriot Act Web site. From here you can view the text of the act itself as well as all the arguments for it and rhetoric used to justify it. A valuable resource for any of us trying to formulate counterarguments about why this act needs to go away.

  22. Re:Of Course, by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yes, the USA is a pretty good place, but that doesn't mean that is doesn't deserve to have a few eggs thrown at it as well. It also doesn't mean that some of those REAL problems in the world are not the fault of the USA. Much of the terrorism that exists could be eliminated if the U.S. simply stopped participating in it. Of course, the problem is in perception since when we fund terrorists they're called "freedom fighters" but when we're attacked we call them "terrorists."

    And it's not a bad thing to be a liberal. :-) It's probably a good thing that conservatives and liberals are constantly fighting it out, lest we slide too far either way. Balance.

    --
    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  23. Re:Of Course, by zpok · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK, you've read National Geographics ;-)

    That doesn't mean this report was written to throw eggs at the USA. Read the article instead of the \. comments. I know, less amusing in many ways, but still.

    The USA scores badly on *some* points, better on others. It's still a pretty good country to live in compared to a lot of places in the world.

    The real issue is, finding your government is messing with your privacy is like being underground and having your canary dying on you. It's a worrying sign, or it should be.

    Instead of thinking "Hey, them's throwing eggs at our beloved nation, that can't be right", you might want to look at other countries and see where that kind of tinkering with basic rights brought them. And remember, it's mostly fellow Americans doing the "throwing", and my guess is they're just as proud of being a US citizen as you obviously are.

    Apart from that, I agree, a lot of people have more pressing problems.

    --
    I think, therefore I am...I think.
  24. Why is privacy a basic human right? by geekotourist · · Score: 2
    One of the best essays on what we lose when we lose privacy (due to new anti-terrorism laws) is this essay from the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. In his words:

    "...If Parliament and the public at large have been slow to react, it is probably because for most people, most of the time, privacy is a pretty abstract concept. Like our health, it's something we tend not to think about until we lose it -- and then discover that our lives have been very unpleasantly, and perhaps irretrievably, altered. But though we tend to take it for granted, privacy -- the right to control access to ourselves and to personal information about us -- is at the very core of our lives. It is a fundamental human right precisely because it is an innate human need, an essential condition of our freedom, our dignity and our sense of well-being.

    If someone intrudes on our privacy -- by peering into our home, going through the personal things in our office desk, reading over our shoulder on a bus or airplane, or eavesdropping on our conversation -- we feel uncomfortable, even violated.

    Imagine, then, how we will feel if it becomes routine for bureaucrats, police officers and other agents of the state to paw through all the details of our lives: where and when we travel, and with whom; who are the friends and acquaintances with whom we have telephone conversations or e-mail correspondence; what we are interested in reading or researching; where we like to go and what we like to do..."

    "... The truth is that we all do have something to hide, not because it's criminal or even shameful, but simply because it's private. We carefully calibrate what we reveal about ourselves to others. ... The right not to be known against our will -- indeed, the right to be anonymous except when we choose to identify ourselves -- is at the very core of human dignity, autonomy and freedom.

    "If we allow the state to sweep away the normal walls of privacy that protect the details of our lives, we will consign ourselves psychologically to living in a fishbowl. Even if we suffered no other specific harm as a result, that alone would profoundly change how we feel. Anyone who has lived in a totalitarian society can attest that what often felt most oppressive was precisely the lack of privacy.

    But there also will be tangible, specific harm.

    "The more information government compiles about us, the more of it will be wrong. That's simply a fact of life...

    "... The bottom line is this: If we have to live our lives weighing every action, every communication, every human contact, wondering what agents of the state might find out about it, analyze it, judge it, possibly misconstrue it, and somehow use it to our detriment, we are not truly free.That sort of life is characteristic of totalitarian countries, not a free and open society like Canada.

    Again, this essay is well worth reading and sending on to others. Other than to Ashcroft and the TSA- don't send it to them, as they'd use it as an antiblueprint. "Don't track everyone all the time? OK, lets track everyone all the time." "Don't allow unsubstantiated data to influence how we treat people? OK, lets use any data available, true or not..."

  25. The right to privacy by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The constitution doesn't use the word. But there's something in there about "unreasonable search and seizure". What is that if not a right to privacy?

    Of course, the constitution only protects your privacy from government intrusion. But a right can be considered to exist without being legally codified. Suppose I steal your private correspondence and read your most personal thoughts. Or plant surveillance gear in your bedroom for my own malicious gratification? Wouldn't you feel that your rights had been violated?

    Side note: screw the moderator who labeled this "Flamebait". I don't agree with this opinion, but it is an honestly-held one. Read the FAQ before you moderate again!

  26. We know the Truth - don't we by Garry+Anderson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a prior posting of mine that was received favourably :-)

    Subject: Why I joined ACLU

    I believe that we British should support the American Civil Liberties Union.

    In fact - the people of ALL countries should - the ACLU are fighting for the Rights of everyone on this matter.

    Liberty has to be one of the most important things in life. Well up there, behind health and safety of your family, must be the right to go about your daily life without being forced to live it under oppressive surveillance. For it surely is oppression - being spied upon by the authorities in all that you do. Knowing this information could be used against you, for any purpose they see fit. The so-called all-seeing eye of God over you - meant to instil respect of them and fear of authority.

    It can be proven they use propaganda to deceive you into believing them. How?

    Ask Security Services in the US, UK, Indonesia (Bali) or anywhere for that matter, to deny this:

    Internet surveillance, using Echelon, Carnivore or back doors in encryption, will not stop terrorists communicating by other means - most especially face to face or personal courier.

    Terrorists will have to do that, or they will be caught!

    Perhaps using mobile when absolutely essential, saying - "Meet you in the pub Monday" (meaning, human bomb to target A), or Tuesday (target B) or Sunday (abort).

    The Internet has become a tool for government to snoop on their people - 24/7.

    The terrorism argument is a dummy - total bull*.

    INTERNET SURVEILLANCE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP TERRORISTS - THAT IS SPIN AND PROPAGANDA

    This propaganda is for several reasons, including: a) making you feel safer b) to say the government are doing something and c) the more malicious motive of privacy invasion.

    Government say about surveillance - "you've nothing to fear - if you are not breaking the law"

    This argument is made to pressure people into acquiescence - else appear guilty of hiding something illegal.

    It does not address the real reason why they want this information (which they will deny) - they want a surveillance society.

    They wish to invade your basic human right to privacy. This is like having somebody watching everything you do - all your personal thoughts, hopes and fears will be open to them.

    This is everything - including phone calls and interactive TV. Quote from ZDNET: "Whether you're just accessing a Web site, placing a phone call, watching TV or developing a Web service, sometime in the not to distant future, virtually all such transactions will converge around Internet protocols."

    "Why should I worry? I do not care if they know what I do in my own home", you may foolishly say. Or, just as dumbly, "They will not be interested in anything I do".

    This information will be held about you until the authorities need it for anything at all. Like, for example, here in UK when government looked for dirt on individuals of Paddington crash survivors group. It was led by badly injured Pam Warren. She had over 20 operations after the 1999 rail crash (which killed 31 and injured many).

    This group had fought for better and safer railways - all by legal means. By all accounts a group of fine outstanding people - with good intent.

    So what was their crime, to deserve this investigation?

    It was just for showing up members of government to be the incompetents they are.

    As usual, government tried to put a different spin on the story when they were found out. Even so, their intent was obvious - they wanted to use this information as propaganda - to smear the character of these good people.

    Our honourable government would rather defile the character of its citizens - rather than address their reasonable concerns.

    The government arrogantly presume this group of citizens would not worry about having their privacy invaded.

    They can also check your outgoings match your income and that you are

  27. Re:Traveller Profiling? by Dissonant · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yeah, easy for you to say, whiteboy.

    Profiling seems like a great idea when you look at it as an abstraction - sacrifice some rights of a very small group of people to improve everyone's safety. Sure, why not? It's a whole different story when you take it on an individual level. I'm an Arab, and an American citizen, and I've lived in the United States since I was two years old. Most people assume that I'm white just looking at me; shit, I don't even speak Arabic. I'm no more a terrorist than your theoretical elderly black woman. And let me tell you, getting searched at every. Single. Goddamn. Airport. starts to look a whole lot like racism from where I'm sitting. I'm not suffering because of anything I've done, or even any choices I've made; it's the way I was born that's the issue. Even the most hardcore politically conservative (i.e. pro-equality of opportunity) outlook can't support that. So if it doesn't fit the political doctrine, what could the motivations be? Notice how they didn't start profiling caucasians at government buildings after the Oklahoma City bombing?

    That aside, racial profiling was recently proven not only ineffective at hampering terrorists, but actually counterproductive. It's an interesting paper, and a very simple proof, though I somehow doubt that it will change your mind on the matter.

    Finally, asshole, your stance here doesn't brand you as a "radical free-thinker" or "defiantly anti-PC", no matter how you might try to paint it as such. It brands you as a fucking racist, and I hope that someday someone gives you the mighty clue-stick bitchslap that you so desperately deserve.

  28. Re:Left-leaning? by Phantasmo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As a Canadian, I consider the Democrats to also be right-wing. I mean, it was the Democrats who wanted to drill for oil in Alaska (34 Republicans voted against the party line, but it's okay because 36 Democrats did the same thing!)

    --

    The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience