Slashdot Mirror
GTA Played By More Than 70 Percent Of Teens
cdneng2 writes "This Yahoo!/Reuters article indicates that more
than 70 percent of American kids have played Grand Theft Auto. The study also
indicates that those who played are more likely to be in fights. It's a good thing the
authors cautioned that this study did not prove a link between game
violence and real-life
behavior." The Gallup poll editors specifically and sensibly advised: "The data can't demonstrate causality - boys who are more prone to fighting may simply be more attracted to violent video games."
If 70 percent of kids are likely to fight, then we should be looking closely at the 30 percent of wierdos who don't want to fight, yes? Isn't that the way it works?
MORTAR COMBAT!
This explains the sharp rise in carjackings, gun rampages, and drownings in shallow water we've seen recently.
Studies also show that people play GTA because it's a good game.
Ass kicking is ass kicking. Your chances of beating the crap out of someone are the same if you lose at chess.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
I just couldn't find a moderation option for "stupid".
I don't deserve my moderation points, and I'm comfortable with that.
I hate when adults assume to know what i am thinking. It really bothers me when some egghead who has never gotten any tail or lived when he was a teen can tell me how I think and feel.
I hate it when some punk-ass kid assumes he knows what an adult's frame of reference is. You're making assumptions that:
1) they're eggheads
2) they haven't gotten any tail
3) they didn't "live" when a teen
Gee, maybe you're right. You are the very first generation whose elders "just can't understand what it's like to be a kid these days". Aren't you special and unique in this universe. All of history served no other purpose than to prepare the way for your coming.
Stop thinking you are so special and start to realize that yes, you do fall into a demographic, you do fit into trends, and you are a tool. Then you might be able to do some really original thinking.
May I be the first to say "Well, DUH!"
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
If i am such a "tool" as you put it, then why are you posting "AC". Now, I am 26... so I guess i can not be considered a kid or a teen or in that "demographic"... I just hate when people published documents to adults telling them how their kids think. These adults need to ask their kids how they think. Parents and the news read that as if it is the truth. It's not the truth, that's like saying all germans are nazi's and all mexican's are illegal aliens... this is just not true. Demographics are wrong and harmful. If they are putting me into a demographic, then I can put them into one.
The kids playing video games were geeks, afraid for their lives. And to play them, we had to walk 2 miles, uphill, in the snow, both ways, and past the captain of the football teams house.
Now, I am 26
Now, I am so sad for you.
I mean, I respect simoniker and everything, I think games.slashdot.org is a pretty good discussion forum but, seriously, get over the games / violence thing already. This is like, what, the fifth or sixth article in a short time showing a link, real or unreal, between video games and violence. True, they all have different angles and they all, arguably, provide insight to the "problem", but do we have to have more articles about video-game related violence than ones to do with SCO? I mean, if there was a new scientific study linking the two, sure, let's know about it and talk about it, but stupidly arguing for (or, as the case might be for this forum) against the idea in perpetuity gets too much. So, simoniker, can you please post a "HL2 delayed rumors" thingy instead? THEN you'll see video-games related violence, I GUARANTEE you.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
...welcome our new wierdo Overlords until the other 70% turn off their games and kick their tails.
It take more faith to believe in evolution than it takes to believe in God
Shouldn't this number add up to 100? Of all the boys who admitted being in a fight, aren't the only two possibilities that they either (1) have played GTA, or (2) have not?
I am sure I am missing something....
--Kobayashi--
Excerpt: Although the study showed twice as many boys who had played the criminal adventure game reported having been in a fight in the last year, the survey's authors cautioned that did not prove a link between game violence and real-life behavior.
Later on, the article does paraphrase that this does not show causality. However, a lot of care is always required in interpreting statistics.
If I gave a sample group peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, but didn't put jelly on 30% of the sandwiches, I'd have 70% PB&J, and 30% PB. Now, if I were to randomly select one person out of the group, observe his sandwich, then put him back into group, and repeat, the number of PB&J's would be about 70% and PB's would be 30%. Guess what? The probability I'll select a person with a PB&J is more than twice that of a PB.
The important thing to realize is that the violent behavior displayed by the teens that play GTA is not statistically different than random chance. If they took a lot of samples, it's actually less, being 2-to-1 more likely (67% probable) instead of 7-to-3 more likely (70% probable).
I want to point out that the article states that 70% of teenage boys play GTA, not 70% of all kids. I just didn't want readers to think that Slashdot thought all kids in America today were male. :)~
Violent Television is watched by more than 95% of everyone.
For once the article about violent video games informed the reader that there was no causality. Usually you have to look to the /. comments to find that out, if you didn't already know it. At least someone out there has a little bit of common sense.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Wasn't the point of the post was that 70% of kids have played GTA?... the violence correlation was secondary? Doesn't anyone find that amazing in itself by Rockstar?
I just hate when people published documents to adults telling them how their kids think
And do you hate it when adults publish documents about how other adults think?
Most people follow the mob, that at least seems to be borne out time and time again in practice. Deal with it. (And yes, it happens to teenagers too, probably more so than most.)
These stories are starting to irritate me. I might be able to jump on this GTA causes violence bandwagon if not for a few things:
1.) Where's the increase in violence? Why aren't we seeing a flood of copycats?
2.) The show Jackass has had a couple of copycats. If kids are so weak willed that TV tells them what to do, how come there weren't millions of Jackass'esque attempts?
3.) How come advertising isn't a much stronger tool? If it's so easy to control kids minds, then why aren't commercials causing big headaches for society?
4.) Why has it been so freaking hard to find a link? It's hard to imagine that there's any children in the USA that don't have access to a TV, yet despite 40 years of exposure, they're still chasing this one. I wouldn't mind if this research was being used to find ways to improve child education through TV/Games, but instead it's being used to hang it. WTF?
5.) Why aren't we seeing studies that look at well balanced adults that grew up on games? My generation had Mortal Kombat, and that created quite a controversy. That game was blamed for all that's wrong with the world, but now that that generation is in their mid 20's, how come nobody's looking at them and saying "strange, lots of these people went on to be successful."?
If you want to prove to me that GTA or any other scapegoat game is causing harm to our kids, then you've got quite a bit to discuss with me first.
"Derp de derp."
Going by their numbers...
70% of all boys have played Grand Theft Auto
66% percent of all boys who have been in fights have played Grand Theft Auto [34% / (34% + 17%) ]
So if you've been in a fight then you're LESS likely to have played Grand Theft Auto :)
Moms across America uniting to make junior's life misserable a videogame.
Marketing: "70% of our main target group? We better make a game like that too"
According to the Gallup poll 70% of ALL teenage boys have played GTA. That's roughly 20 million teenagers, represented by a Gallup sample of 517 boys. At a ratio of 38684,7 to 1, that better be one hell of a sample job to represent the entire teenager base, which is extremely unpredictable as it is.
I went to the Gallup site to check out how Gallup polls are conducted. and I also found the teaser to the particular study.
"Grand Theft of Innocence? Teens and Video Games On Aug. 28, two teenagers from Newport, Tenn., pleaded guilty to two sniper-style shootings that left one man dead and a woman injured. The boys claimed to have gotten the idea from Grand Theft Auto, a violent video game that has caused controversy over its potential effects on kids. A new Gallup Youth survey indicates that this game is extremely popular among teens, particularly boys." After that you have to pay so that's as far as I got, and I'm sure that this poll will be quoted over and over again in some form of political hysteria or another.
Massive by Design
Anyone can make up statistics. 30% of people know that!
-homer
I think simoniker described the gist of this article.
""The study also indicates that those who played are more likely to be in fights. It's a good thing the authors cautioned that this study did not prove a link between game violence and real-life behavior.""
It's the same old crap again in the media as usual. Oh yes blame kids violence on video games when in fact schools and parents should be blamed for poor teaching and poor parenting. You must never point fingers at the real problem - oh no that's too forbidden, must point at video games.
Damn disgusting if you ask me. Especially since boys have been fighting in schools since the dawn of time way before video games were even invented!
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
Gaming is really my only source of income ( when the economy isn't totally fucked, I can sell MMORPG items/accounts for decent money ).
In fact, I've played so many games that, often times when I go outside and see clouds or a sunset, I think "Damn... I'm surprised my GeForce3 can do this, oh... that's right, reality doesn't run on my computer."
Heh. I'm actually not kidding, I have thought that before. At any rate, despite all those mental lapses in how I perceive reality... I have no criminal record. I am not a violent person. In fact, I am sure playing violent video games is a form of venting any violent tendencies I may have.
So, despite what all the blame shifters would like to believe, gaming doesn't make us all crazy.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
First, let me say that I have *not read* the article mentioned in the article. I don't have enough time right now to go through that, but I do consider myself having enough time to chime in on the debate, which is essentially the old "Is GTA3 corrupting our nations youth?" argument that's been going on since the game was released.
And, let me say that I have never played GTA3! I have a Gamecube. I've never had a PS2, and I sold my X-Box as soon as I got my fill of ToeJam & Earl 3. (Very underrated game, actually, but I digress.) So naturally I'm *hopelessly* unqualified to say anything on this subject, right?
Well... of course, I would say no. I've been around enough to know that the furor over GTA3 is just another interation of the old Mortal Kombat furor, which is itself a repeat of the furor over a truly old game called Death Race 2000 (which as near as I can tell is not a movie tie-in).
What I know about GTA3 is all hearsay, but all the reputable sources of information seem to agree. That being:
- Casual attitude towards killing.
- Player can hire a prostitute to regain health.
- After "doing it" with a prostitute, player can then kill her. (A lot of people reference to this, so it must be an important part of the game.)
- Didn't you just hear what I said? Killing whores!!
- Oh, and brilliant level design and gameplay, pah.
Okay, on to the point. In fact, I have had the chance to play GTA3 but I passed it up because I found the attitude behind it disturbing. "Mature" in the videogame world has its sole meaning in the MPAA's definition of Mature, which is, guns, swear words and tits. It's true that you can do a lot of things in the game world, there is a lot of player freedom, and that you don't technically have to do anything immoral, but the game's interface is biased towards doing reprehensible things. When you can collect such an extensive inventory of weapons, you can't help but feel the push towards shooting.
It's true that whenever I play an RPG with any sort of difficult moral choice, I do feel a bit of emotional weight over the decision. While I play, I lose some of the sense that it is "just a game," because playing it "right" requires so getting into the story. One of the defenses thrown up for GTA3, however, is that it's just a game. My point is, if it's any good, it's not.
And also, GTA3, while obviously not a direct cause of murders, *is* yet another example of the slow and steady push of our culture towards violence, which has difficult-to-gauge effects. You don't need to reference a hundred half-assed Lieberman-studies to see that.
Garbage In => Garbage Out.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
the headline is that 70% of teenagers play violent games. However, the actual article says that 70% HAVE played GTA3. There is a difference between saying that they play it and that they have played it. Saying that they have played means that they have tried it. They may or may not have played it more than once. I HAVE played GTA3. I don't play it (I don't own a PS2 and haven't gotten around to buying it for the pc. one of these days...)
This is like saying that X% of people are drug users when in reality X% of people had only tried drugs.
However, as the headline states, it is a lot more sensationalistic and more scry to think that 70% ARE playing these evil murder simulators.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
since a few people are chiming in with this, is an irrational fear of the police. Even when I'm not doing anything wrong, I feel like they're going to run me over or open fire. I really need to take care of some trees in the backyard, but I'm gonna catch a bullet if I turn on that chainsaw.
No, I don't have a problem when adults write about adults. You missed the whole point. I wrote... I just hate when people published documents to adults telling them how their kids think. These adults need to ask their kids how they think. ... My point was parents need to communicate with their children and do the parenting themselves. What we have here is a problem where parents are so afraid of not being able to understand their children that they allow themselves to be tricked into buying these ideas that tell them their children are sheep and unable to make any choices on their own. That children are so hard to understand, and all this does is propagate this fear parents have of their children.
So some of you are saying that what we watch or interact with on TV has no affect in what we do in real life? Better tell that to the multi-billion dollar porno industry... ;)
As a future dad (ultrasound tomorrow - woohoo!) who wants to be involved in their kids' lives, I just wanna say that was a good post..
We rarely if ever get any of this violence on tv/videogames/comic books/movies/music histeria. We definetely do have violent crime and some of the people commiting said crime are teens. So why is it that canadian politicians and media talking heads rarely if ever talk about some baseless link between violent behaviour and violent acts? Is it our water or something?
After playing enough Day of Defeat, I now run around looking for Germans to shoot and yell 'Go Go Go!'
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
That's a nice sentiment, but then at the end you switched my point of view.
What we have here is a problem where parents are so afraid of not being able to understand their children that they allow themselves to be tricked into buying these ideas that tell them their children are sheep and unable to make any choices on their own.
Agree!
all this does is propagate this fear parents have of their children.
Hrm... on second thought, maybe this is a good thing. Maybe if adults are afraid of children, they will stop having so many damned kids.
MORTAR COMBAT!
I've 'played' GTA1, 2, and 3 (haven't play VC or London) for a grand total of oh... 3 hours. Does this mean I have a higher chance of getting into a fight than someone else who has never played any of the GTA games? (And no, I have not been in a fight for 5 years now and yes, I am a wuss)
So i'm normal now??!!!! So should I just stop playing games altogether to regain my sense of individuality?
Insert Sig Here
Am I the only one that thinks that an ONLINE survey of the demographic in question, consisting of ONLY 517 people isn't the most balanced and representitive poll out there? It seems to me that 70% of all American teenage boys (or whatever), that played GTA, is a bit too high and a bit too unbelieveable. And slightly off topic, I recently recieved an email from Jack Thompson, replying to my questioning of his lawsuit and tactics. From what he had to say, his basis is pretty weak and pulls out all the "contraversial" games from the closet and tries to tie it to violent acts. Hardly anything new, and hardly anything conclusive.
I propose a study of how many instances there are of teenagers getting in light saber fights. Now if only I can find funding for research...
(This is guaranteed to be marked as flamebait, but I've got to say it.)
Last sentence of paragraph 4 in the article, "They have been decried by parents and lawmakers, among others, for depictions of graphic violence against women, law enforcement officers and the elderly." HEAVEN FORBID there be violence against women in a game where violence is one of the major points. I note the distinction they made, that it's violence against WOMEN and not simply violence against people. Violence towards men is acceptable these days?
"The data can't demonstrate causality - boys who are more prone to fighting may simply be more attracted to violent video games."
Of course it doesn't. At a guess, lets try this one:
GTA is 18 rated here in the UK, and its status as unsuitable for children is hardly a big secret in the rest of the world either. This means kids that have been playing it are less likely to be having strict parenting, as they have probably been allowed to. Note that I'm generalising, and parents may well have made a careful decision that the child is mature enough to cope with the slapstick, satirical nature of GTA's setup, and I'm fine with that.
Anyone else wish to speculate that poor parenting might possibly be a cause of violence in teenagers? Obviously, that isn't demonstrated as causality either.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
The article says 71% of boys and 34% of girls have played this one particular game.
That comes out to around 52% of teenagers have played it, *not* 'over 70%' -- there are slightly more girls than boys.
Some kids may have played violent video games other than GTA but not GTA. There is really no information in the article about how they would have determined how many teens 'play violent video games' on a regular basis, so I assume they did not determine that factoid at all.
Writing is the only socially acceptable form of schizophrenia. (E. L. Doctorow)