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Cell Phones May Spread Infections
CHaN_316 writes "Yahoo is running an article talking about how cell phones from health workers are helping spread dangerous infections in hospitals. 'They found that 12 percent of healthcare providers' cell phones were contaminated with [Acinetobacter baumannii]. The results are disturbing because [it] has the propensity to develop resistance to almost all available antibiotics ... Cell phones provide a large dry surface that allows survival of A. baumannii--it requires no nutrients ... [it] is found in intensive care units, and the mortality rate among infected patients is very high -- between 50 and 60 percent.' The hospital that conducted this research no longer allows the use of cell phones, and are switching to devices that don't require hand contact like pagers." So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it?
Douglas Adams was, once again, an incredible visionary (even if he didn't intend to be one).
"Trust me - I know what I'm doing."
- Sledge Hammer
So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol
Samsung already has. They may not have intended it but mine has been accidently soaked in booze more times than I care to (or can) remember.
Trolling is a art,
Alright, but how many consumer phones are also a breeding ground for this sort of thing now? I'm sure the bacteria spread fairly quickly, so I have to wonder. Also, how would a consumer clean such an infected phone without destroying it?
EVIL Verizon Guy calls the hospital ICU...
Ring...
"Can you hear me now?"
"Good!"
EVIL Verizon Guy hangs up, cackles madly...
So now I have to worry about two kind's of bugs on my cell phone... The diseased bug and the FBI...
[[ the only 15 letter word that is spelled without repeating a letter is uncopyrightable: it may soon be, however. ]]
And while we're at it, we should sterilise the healthcare workers too. Honestly, this is just another knee-jerk pogrom against a new technology, wasting money that could have been better spent elsewhere.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
They always said that they didn't want you to use your phone in the hospital, as it would interfere with hospital equipment. Turns out it interferes with your own equipment. Heart, lungs, etc...
I own an ericson R310 Waterproof shockproof phone (antenae that looks like a sharks fin). I noticed that during the recent sars outbreak they seemed to be the phone of choice for the men in bunny suits!
Why wouldn't a pager require hand contact? I bet what he really meant to say was _head_ contact.
That would make a lot more sense.
I keep my pager in my desk drawer. When I'm not in the office, I set it to the most annoying ring/beep, and stick it up in a ceiling tile. Hilarity ensues for co-workers in office.
So how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it?
Actually, you can dunk your phone in alcohol right now if you wanted (minus the screen)... I was a part-time cell phone dealer about 2 years ago, whenever a phone had water damage or got dirty internally, all we did was take the phone apart, get a toothbrush and rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) and start scrubbing away at the corrosion.
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
Wouldn't simply irradiating the cel phone do the trick?
Maybe some internal parts would need to be shielded to withstand it, but the external surface could be sterilized that way.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
More interesing recent story on cell phones:
Mobiles 'betray' cheating Italians.
NEWS FLASH: If you have bacteria on your skin and that spot touches an object, other people touching that object can pick up the bacteria! What can you do to protect your children? Are you safe? Watch Channel 14 KSLSHDOT tonight at 10 and find out!
This isn't news. This is fear-based ratings pandering by the source.
blog |
If cell phones harbor nasty germs, what about those PDA and Tablet PC medical terminals? The construction is equivalent -- lots of plastic, elastomeric buttons, touch screens, stylus, etc. Worse, medical terminals are more likely than are cell phones to be handled by multiple people.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Heck, come to think of it, the plastic bag would let sound through without a problem. Just get a cell phone that you don't need to fold or unfold to use, and heat-seal it in a fresh sterile plastic bag every time you enter the hospital, and remove the plastic bag every time you leave. That would do the trick, wouldn't it?
Actually, you can sterilize just about anything but the cost and time are prohibitive. There is a sterilization process that uses gas where I have sterilized entire computers, monitors, mouse and keyboards that were placed in operating rooms. Also I have sterlized sensitive electronics that could not take either pressure or temperature that survived gas sterilization just fine. It is a trade off between cost of the sterilization process, the time it takes the equipment to be done, and the usefullness of the equipment.
Well lets see here, send all the sick to one place, get the same subset of the population to treat them all and wierdly enough you get concentrations in infections (including all these wonderful antibiotic resistant/immune strains we are breeding with our idiotic farming and medical practices... but that's another rant for another day). Especially in and around those brave enough to be on the frontline as it were.
If you aren't sick, stay the hell away from hospitals or you will be.
Q.
Insert Signature Here
I thought people were not supposed to use cell phones in hospitals. Why are they even there?
Well, you can't autoclave it. They usually only do this with certain metals, since they can withstand the heat involved.
You could theoretically dip it in a biocide of some sort (they use stuff tougher than alcohol in operating rooms and on used surgical tools) but there's a "nook & cranny" problem. When designing non-metal surgical tools, you have to make sure you don't make any tiny cracks, holes, or grooves where stuff can cling and avoid the biocide. The last cell phone I saw had a lot of nooks and crannies. You'd possibly need to redesign one to be completely sealed, which is getting more feasible because of wireless battery charging technologies and wireless connectivity technologies.
Another alternative is that you could stick it in a sterile container and use it wirelessly, but then your wireless headset would still need to be sterilizable.
-- Fratz, human
Remember, Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic
You would think it'd be pretty easy to make some kind of plastic bag that would act like a thin sleeve for the phones, like disposable gloves and whatnot.
It could just be thin cellophane in the shape of a tube sock, maybe even with a zip lock on one end. Even a flip-open phone could be put in flipped open, then shut (plastic would fold over inside it).
That way, you could dispose of the bag and not worry about getting a special phone or banning them in hospitals altogether.
Chris
Do you mean something like Nokia 6250? Anyways, at least Finnish hospitals don't allow GSM phones on their premises. Worry about mixing radio transmitters and heart monitors, I guess.
--
Binaries may die but source code lives forever
so I'm not surprised/affected in the least by this.
c'mon people, any object that is carried -everywhere- or used daily (potentially used by or in the immediate proximity of sick people) provides an opportunity for disease to spread. particularly when it's something that people never clean.
i honestly hope no-one is surprised by this.
it's reminicent of the studies that surprised you all a few years back, that showed the average computer workstation is dirtier (bacteria) than the average bathroom.
primarily because: how often do you clean around your PC? actually picking it up, moving it around, and wiping it all down with sanitizing pads? (particularly keyboard,mouse,wrist pads,power buttons,etc)
ok, now how often do you wipe down your cell phone with a sanitizing pad? exactly.
your phone is almost certainly more filthy than your toilet. think about that.
and while you do your reactionary one time cleaning, don't forget your pager, pda, land-lines, av remotes, video gaming controllers, camera, keys, wallet, laptop, and car interior (radio, steering wheel,shifter,beltbuckler,door handles,etc).
me? my neuroses keeps me well protected from you damned dirty apes.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
Simple... Do not use cellphones in hospitals.
All radio (send) devices in hospitals should be (and are in some hospitals) banned due to possible interferrence with sensative medical equipment.
Warning: This sig contains a small bug. ==> *
You can alcohol- or autoclave-sterilize any cell phone today! It just won't work afterwards.
Seriously though...*doodeedooeeannoyingpolyphonicringTONE* "Hello? Yeah. Uh huh. Well I'm just working on a patient right now. Uh huh. A gallon of milk and some laundry detergent? Ok. Yes I'll remember. I said I'd remember! Last time? But... Yeah last time there was a big traffic jam and I just wanted to get home. Hold on for a sec, I need to install this catheter. Ok, I'm back. What do you mean I don't love you? What? That's not true! I'm sorry? When did I... No that's not what I meant. Ok I'm sorry. What? No, my patients are not more important than you. Uh huh. Yeah. Hmm. Well I'll try harder from now on. Yeah? Ok. All right. Yes I'll remember: milk and detergent. Ok. I love you too. What? Oh. Buh-bye. Yes I love you too. Ok. Bye then."
...
to me the point is that cell phones are used in non controlled, non-sterile enviroments. if the pager was a doctors personal one it would cause the same problem. you'd have to have "hospital only" units kept at work and sanitised daily to be safe(r).
"A towel is the most astounding Mind-boggleing useful thing in the universe, allways know where your towel is"
Surely we can just crank up the transmission power of the phones and fry the little beggars!? Die Die Die!
AT&ROFLMAO
I am a nurse. Cell phones aren't the problem, people are the problem.
Want to stop the spread of the pathogens on your cell phone or _______ ? It's easy.
1. Wash your fscking hands before and after you examine any patient.
2. Don't use the device during an examination.
Problem solved.
You don't have to kill the little germies on the phone, just wash them off your hands, for %#^$&! sake.
The best way to do is to be.
Every damn hospital I've ever set foot in outright forbids the use of cell phones on hospital premises. (Use as defined in having it switched on)
Apparently they can lead to nasty interactions with some of the delicate electronics they have running in hospitals and kill patients in the process.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Certainly the cell phone is a conveinent place to pick up bugs. But so are doorknobs, restrooms, etc.
The real problem...and working in public health I know this hasn't changed even since the advent of germ theory...is just getting the damn workers (I *include* physicians) in hospitals to wash their hands corrrectly before working with a patient. I still see plenty of infectious disease workers more than happy to walk out of a bathroom without washing their hands.
And even if you do, when you touch just about anything (or just wait, as the stuff as you left on your hand grows) you could be putting patients...esp immunosuppresed patients (HIV/chemo/elderly) at great danger.
I always shudder seeing hospital staff walking outside on the streets in their scrubs, shoe covers and hair covers like they are some magical shield that will never pick up pathogens harmful to the patients.
I, for one, welcome our new toxic wireless overlords.
Now, I can kill my enemies with a simple "Here, it's for you..."
In the past, I had to pass them a tin can connected to a string that previously contained bad salmon.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Studies of cutting boards show that wooden cutting boards are safer than plastic ones. The research shows that you can find bacteria on plastic cutting boards (even ones that where hand-scrubbed), but that even unwashed wooden boards have no bacteria on the surface after they dry. Apparently capilliary action pulls bacteria into the wood's pores and away from the surface of the wood, leaving the surface sterile.
Wooden cellphone skins would make a nice retro-fashion statement. For extended use, the wooden phone skins could be removed and autoclaved.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
I'll gladly volunteer my pager for autoclave survival testing.
Then we'd see the /. headline "Plastic Bags May Spread Infections." The infections aren't coming from the cellphone itself, but from whoever touches it, therefore the same problem will exist however the cellphone is covered.
(Duh. I can't believe I have to explain that one. Still, it was modded +5 Interesting so I suppose some folks just haven't got the ability to think about things for a microsecond or two.)
Dunking the user in alcohol has a number of merits though...:-)
I'm staggered that you can use mobile phones in American hospitals. They aren't allowed in the UK and from what I remember most of europe - they interfere with all the monitoring equipment.
Ahhhh, in the day, before the EPA, OSHA and FDA got their hands on workplace health hazards, we used to use Carbon Tet to clean EVERYTHING.
how long before someone develops a cell phone that can be dunked in alcohol or run through the autoclave to sterilize it
Yeah, then people will forget clean them.
The basic problem is that antibiotics has made us all blase about the dangers of Bacteria. So even basic hygene measures, like washing your hands, are being ignored. Every doctor I've had has washed their hands AFTER examining me. But I remember as a child they also did so BEFORE examining me... not seen them do that for years.
But not to worry, soon our lazy approach to the use of antibiotics will make most bacteria resistant in a decade or two... so we'll soon get the knack again one day.
Sarcasm aside, I'm sure I read something to back this up... 10% of patients in UK hospitals catch somthing whilst in hospital owing to poor hygene (and it can't be mobiles as they've always been banned).
Do you mind, your karma has just run over my dogma.
I used to work for a hospital's IT dept and part of the job was maintaining Nortel companion phones for one of the nursing depts. Every couple of months, they would bring a non-working phone to us saying it fell in a bucket of water. We always wonder why the nursing dept would keep a bucket of water at their station. Eventually, we learned that "bucket of water" was their term for "toilet." How's that for sanitary? :)
It really comes down to hand-washing.
If you wash your hands between patients (and especially before going to see someone who's immune system has taken a hit... chemo, HIV, SCID, etc, etc), you'll cut down dramatically on the spread of disease.
The nosocomial, or hospital-acquired infections are the worst actors... multiply-resistant, and prevelant in the one location where sick and vulnerable people are gathered in one place.
This doesn't leave out healthcare workers. Your own commensal organisms that live on your skin and in your gut tend to be wild-type, and less-resistant than nosocomials.... until you wipe them out by doing something dumb, like taking antibiotics for an infection that's viral, or would clear up on its own given a little time (mild sinusitis, for example). This is why I advocate avoiding antibiotics unless clearly indicated... this includes taking antibiotics for infections that would get better with good wound care alone... like boils and smaller cutaneous abscesses. If you work in a health care facility, your normal bacterial population is the only thing protecting you from mass colonization with resistant bugs, particularly if you work with critically-ill patients. You don't want to get really sick with something, then find out there's nothing that can treat your infection... I've seen it happen to too many patients.
So yes, wash your hands... and don't take antibiotics unless you damned well NEED them... If I personally get sick, and all the antibiotics are going to do is shorten my disease course by a day or two, I'll skip them... I'm not sacrificing my precious normal flora for such a minimal gain.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
So, why would not they make a desk with UV lamp, where people can put their phones/PDAs/whatever else. Hard UV radiation is quite effective as a decontamination mechanism. In some countries (Russia, for example), UV lamp is used daily in examination rooms (while no humans are present, of course ;) ), to reduce amount of airborne contaminants in the air and on irradiated surfaces.
Not sure if it would harm the screen of cellphone (a simple UV protective transparent sticker would help) but all other surfaces would be clensed without problems. No?
Hyperom.com
The problem with antibiotic abuse in health care workers is particularly troubling, as you describe. I'm like you, I don't take them unless my clinical situation indicates it--meaning I have the right drug for the right bug and I'm getting worse instead of better.
Don't even get me started on anti-bacterial soaps.... Not only does their misuse compound the problems we've discussed above, but these soaps only kill off the same flora that our antibiotics (particularly the cheap and safe ones) do, leaving the drug-resistant flora relatively unaffected. As they get washed into our communal water-treatment facilities, the drug-resistant strains are then left with reduced competiton for the limited, consumable resources (like food) that they need to live and multiply.
Because of the use of the "New and Improved Anti-bacterial ____," we encourage the survival and colonization of the very bugs that cause the illnesses for which we don't have good and/or cheap antibiotics. I particularly regret seeing antibacterials used routinely at home around infants, which is the use for which they are most aggressively marketed....
But, I've wandered sufficiently off topic for now.
The best way to do is to be.
Now if only a similar scare could make it into the headlines saying "Using a cellphone when driving can give you SARS." Or better still, "Using a cellphone when driving and simultaniously talking at the top of your voice so that everyone else stopped at the lights can hear you as you wave your arms around emphatically can seriously increase risk of developing a serious illness." Maybe then I could get to work without having at least one near-death experience every morning.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
when can you use cell phones in hospitals?? EVERY hospital i've been in in the last 5 years has signs at every entrance saying, "Cellular phones may interfere with life saving equipment. TURN THEM OFF"
I write code.
My favorite is when they wear nice gloves, at the dentist for example, and are continually opening this or that drawer with their gloves. I suppose they think the germs from my mouth aren't going to get onto the drawer, because they have gloves on??!! Of course they wipe all surfaces down with antiseptic, even every nook and cranny behind those drawer pull knobs, between every patient. Right.
Then there was the dental assistant who used her own five-second rule (oops, wrong story) to quickly pick up and start to re-use a tool she had dropped on the floor.
Apply the same mentality to a cell phone, which has much greater mobility in and out of the environment, and it does make an effective germ vector.
See everyone? Your cell phone CAN spread viruses!
-R
Phones only spread infections when people share the phones. So a pay phone or other public phone would do more to spread infection than a cell phone.
The fact that we are all running around with our private little phones means that we are exposing ourselves to fewer phone carried bugs than we would get by using a common phone.
I really can't remember the last time I handed my phone to a stranger. In fact, its been several month since anyone other than myself has touched my cell phone.
As for companies that have use a common phone for people on call...they really should just get forwardable 800 number...that way they could swith duties by pointing to different phones...it is much more convenient.
Except, however, the one form of antibiotic that is frowned upon by professionals. Let me introduce you to colloidal silver. It's a suspension of silver particles in water... and guess what? It has been shown to kill germs including bacteria, viruses, yeast, mold, fungus and parasites, many of which are resistant to antibiotics.
I know many of you are saying "snake oil" right now, but I've used the stuff to cure ear infections, and it works a lot faster and at a much lower price than antibiotics.
You can even make your own.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
I gave up my cell phone years ago when I realized that 75% of the time I saw a cell phone, I saw it attached to the ear of a jackass, and I'm not taking any chances... I quit the things cold turkey.
Not sure if the cell phone causes its user to become a jackass, or if jackasses use cell phones, but why take the chance unnecessarily?
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs