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TRON Enters Alliance With Microsoft

David writes "As widely reported on OSNews.com, Forbes, IDG, CNet, AustralianIT, and Ashi Shimbun - Microsoft Corp. has entered into an alliance with the T-engine Forum, the consortium behind the free software TRON operating system. As TRON runs billions of devices worldwide, this will help Microsoft's goal of cementing WinCE / .NET in places as diverse as your toaster and cell phone, perhaps in a setup similar to how X-Windows is in relation to the Linux kernel." (Continued below.)

David continues: "This arrangement is ironic, as Microsoft is part of the reason why the U.S. in the 1980s prevented Japan from putting TRON into schools on the desktop by account of trade rules, which would've meant Linux may've never gone beyond being a footnote in the comp.os.minix archives. No doubt Microsoft is aiming to keep Linux out of the embedded space, and may in the long-term foster an environment where using anything other than industry-licenced OS software on the desktop becomes unviable for everyday tasks because all the infratructurial systems we take for granted today like radio, television, phones, IM, require Palladium-style walled gardens."

33 of 303 comments (clear)

  1. But... by condour75 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'll never believe it... Tron fights for the users. He'd never work for the MCP.

    1. Re:But... by Xeth · · Score: 3, Funny
      He'd never work for the MCP.

      Get with the times man! Now they're calling it TCPA...

      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
    2. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Do you have any idea how many outside systems I've gone into? How many programs I've appropriated?

      Regards, Bill Gates

    3. Re:But... by INSSOMNIAK · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Hi there! Would you like some toast?"

  2. Shoot me now! by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 4, Funny

    Too late, they already put Windows on my gun, and it just keeps rebooting when I pull the trigger.

    1. Re:Shoot me now! by NanoGator · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Too late, they already put Windows on my gun, and it just keeps rebooting when I pull the trigger."

      I tried to commit suicide using a Linux based gun. Unfortunately, by the time I figured out the right switches for the sht command, I felt better!

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Shoot me now! by dvdeug · · Score: 5, Funny

      Unfortunately, by the time I figured out the right switches for the sht command, I felt better!

      RTFM. It's sht [options] [caliber] [number of bullets], where -l is for lead bullets, -number is how you specify the number of the body part you want to shoot (where the default is in the air), -h for high velocity, and -q for auto reload. How much easier could it get?

    3. Re:Shoot me now! by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Funny

      "RTFM. It's sht [options] [caliber] [number of bullets], where -l is for lead bullets, -number is how you specify the number of the body part you want to shoot (where the default is in the air), -h for high velocity, and -q for auto reload. How much easier could it get?"

      I tried to use the auto feature for caliber, and it wasn't working. I had to look that up. Oh, and it's -H not -h. Stupid man page had a typo in it.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:Shoot me now! by iebgener · · Score: 3, Funny

      How much easier could it get?

      well, you need to be root to do that.

    5. Re:Shoot me now! by kubrick · · Score: 3, Funny

      -number is how you specify the number of the body part you want to shoot (where the default is in the air)

      An improvement on the first version, where the default was the foot.

      --
      deus does not exist but if he does
  3. BSOLC by forsetti · · Score: 4, Funny

    Blue Screen of Light-Cycle?

    --
    10b||~10b -- aah, what a question!
  4. Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    I don't want a MS powered toaster. It would bring down my power network, and I would be open to power line viruses. Besides, it might start doing weird things and throw the toast at the ceiling for no reason, or just refuse to toast, and I'd have to reboot the toaster to get it to work again...

    No thanks! Spare me the Microsoft stuff and give me a good old mechanical toaster! Yah!!

    1. Re:Sorry... by LordOfYourPants · · Score: 4, Funny

      If my toaster were Linux powered, my toast would come out perfectly every time. The caveat is that the toast would have to be cut up into 40 pieces and thrown up into the air because the toaster is mounted on the ceiling and everyone who suggests that it should go on a counter would be told "You can open up the toaster and see the guts. Go build your own."

      On top of that, no one knows that they have to cut their toast into 40 pieces before a perfect toasting session because asking for help with their toaster nets them a "RTFM," leading them to a 400 page manual that explains everything but they kitchen sink when they just want to have a piece of toast. That, or they get directed to toast tech support which charges them $50 a year for a straight answer.

      There'd be a ToastMaster who would decide when and where the latest model of the toaster gets released. Again, other gizmo fans could roll their own toaster, but people taking on names like ToasterOne would end up getting in shit for doing so.

  5. Re:I for one by TheIzzy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Err, shouldn't that be "I for one welcome our Microsoft Overlords... Again"

  6. such a shame by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Leopards don't change their spots
    Lions don't lie with lambs
    Microsoft doesn't play well with others

    Its really a shame that theres always someone out there who figures theyr'e the ones that can get a fair shake out of Microsoft.

    Microsoft allready moved against TRON being adopted by japanese schools. (WTO trade regs were their weapon of choice). Does anyone at the TRON project really think the vole of redmond has had a change of heart ?

    The only ray of hope here, is that it will provide a great impetus to embeded linux. I can just see chinese party officials thinking their refrigerators are spying on them because they run microsoft operating systems.

    1. Re:such a shame by Bendebecker · · Score: 3, Funny

      "The only ray of hope here, is that it will provide a great impetus to embeded linux."
      Nope, the only hope here is if one of us users can get into the system and liberate TRON before he gets the bits blasted out of him on the game grid.

      --
      There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
      most of us won't be able to afford it.
      -- Lemmy
    2. Re:such a shame by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Leopards don't change their spots
      Lions don't lie with lambs
      Microsoft doesn't play well with others"


      Ah, but caterpillars turn into butterflies. Your argument is defeated! Buahaha!

      See how easy it is to attack an argument that overly relies on metaphor? I'm really suprised you were modded up.

    3. Re:such a shame by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is you getting into bed with Microsoft.

      This is you getting fucked.

      Any questions?

    4. Re:such a shame by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Funny

      "The early bird gets the worm" vs. "Good things come to those that wait."

      I prefer this one:

      "The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse always gets the cheese!"

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    5. Re:such a shame by AstroDrabb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I hate MS as much as the next guy. However, this looks like it will STILL be TRON and it will STILL be a free RTOS. They are just going to allow MS and their .Not crap to run on it. I guess this is how MS wants to try to get a monopoly on the embeded world.

      --
      If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
      it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
    6. Re:such a shame by 1010011010 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about:

      • The Earth makes one revolution about its axis each day.
      • Air at normal pressure and temperature is less dense than uranium.
      • Microsoft cannot be trusted


      How could anyone ever arrive at the conclusion that Microsoft will not screw them?

      Microsoft's intentions in this deal are transparent. They tried to crush TRON with Super301. Now they're trying to subvert it. When TRON is just a way to run .Net, why would one need TRON?

      Same story, different day: "Microsoft seeks absolute control."

      --
      Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
  7. This just in... by NMerriam · · Score: 4, Funny

    TRON and Microsoft are only working together on a new security system that will be able to protect heterogeneous systems from attack, so there is no reason to worry.

    The first SDK for this software ("Skynet") should be out in about 18 months.

    --
    Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
  8. Oh Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Better than having to pay an extra $699 to SCO for my toaster.

  9. This is part of the .NET vs Java war by bizcoach · · Score: 4, Informative
    The main point seems to be:

    The agreement will allow the Windows CE .NET platform for digital devices to work on top of T-Kernel.

    1. Re:This is part of the .NET vs Java war by cpeterso · · Score: 3, Insightful

      good point. The story sounds familiar:

      1. Microsoft "cooperates" with an established competitor
      2. Microsoft embraces and extends established standard (TRON OS)
      3. Microsoft cuts ties with competitor and/or drops support for the standard


      Since WinCE uptake has been slow for embedded devices, this plan will "cut 'em off at the pass" by inserting .NET between the low-level OS and user-level apps. .NET is the new "OS".
  10. No, they'll play fair enough. by JayBlalock · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Actually, I have no doubt that Microsoft will play relatively fair with these guys. If they're a non-profit org, that means they could pretty much pick up their toys and leave anytime they want. (in realistic terms; I obviously don't know what kind of contract was signed) The idea appears to solely be to let Microsoft take over what has always been a pretty serious competitor in Asia in the handheld markets. I have little doubt that whatever comes of this will be named "Microsoft Tron" or "Powered by Microsoft TN Technologies" or something like.

    It's just more assimilation. (and just think, they were probably prepping this deal at the same time they were whining about the China-Japan-Korea superOS being unfair)

    --
    Bush: He's Liberal in all the wrong ways.
  11. This one is very obvious by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My first reaction to this is that here is Microsoft trying to stem the tide against the proposed OS that China, Japan, and Korea are thinking about.

    In Japan, Microsoft has a fair bit of prestige... unlike, say, in Europe or the US where MS's reputation is sullied by the anti-trust suits. The Japanese, IMO, don't really think that the general public minds MS dominance... but then the Japanese wouldn't say openly that they hate MS or anything. Plus most IT workers would be thrilled to work for MS Japan... they have lots of cash after all. There seems to be no debate here about "which OS is better" like there is in other western countries.

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
  12. MCP? by Schnake · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft Certified Professionals?

    ----
    * Before someone tries to corrects me, don't worry, I already know the reference to Tron the movie.

  13. Re:not looking forward... by IanBevan · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm not looking forward to the BSOD on my toaster...

    Is that a Brown Slice Of Death ?

  14. Window CE is just one of the middlewares for TE by pario · · Score: 5, Informative
    Everyone here seems to have missed the main point. This alliance only means that Microsoft will create a version of Windows CE .NET that runs on the T-Engine platform. T-Engine is a collection of standards for embedded hardware, realtime operating system and middlewares, and for the T-Engine platform Windows CE .NET will be just one of the middlewares. This news is not even about Microsoft taking over TRON or MS vs Java; in fact, there are T-Java and T-Linux under development, by Sun and Montavista, respectively, and other GUI middlewares on sale, which were originally part of BTRON, the TRON desktop OS. Most information about T-Engine is available only in Japanese at this point, but you can find some in English here.

    As a sidenote, the main thrust of the T-Engine platform is high portabilty of middlewares across various embedded emvironments with different CPUs. This portabilty is made possible by a standard opensource kernel, which is based on micro-ITRON 3.0, and standalization of hardware. Dr. Sakamura even said he is going to fix the specification of the realtime kernel by the end of year and it will not be changed for the next HUNDRED years for the sake of comatibilty of middlewares. Moreover, there are rumors that a subsidary of Panasonic is developing a desktop operating system based on T-Engine. This is a very exciting year for the TRON project indeed.

  15. Tron is open source?? by molo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I said it before and I'll say it again: where can I find the source and the license to tron? It seems that tron is more of an open specification of a RTOS, and there are a ton of closed binary-only implementations.

    This actually kinda reminds me of the MIPS processor architechure.. there is an open specification and lots of people produce chips for the ISA.. but it wasn't until opencores came along that there was an open implementation.. and there is no open implementation for TRON yet, AFAIK.

    Is tron open-source? Where is the code? Where is the license? Whats the story here? If it really is open-source, why can't someone point to the code? Something is fishy here.. or perhaps its just lost in the translation.. but I can't figure this out.

    -molo

    --
    Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
    1. Re:Tron is open source?? by kahei · · Score: 4, Informative

      *sigh*

      TRON is a set of standards, SOME of which relate specifically to a realtime OS.

      You can buy the standards from the TRON Association and implement them.

      There is no source, unless you write some.

      Incidentally, how precisely did the parent post get modded *up* rather than *down*? I mean, I don't usually RTFA any more than the next guy, but it's a bit depressing that so many people made their opinions public without stopping to learn what the topic even *is*.

      By the way, MS deal with TRON consists of layering .NET on TRON in the same way many other things are already layered on it (or, to put it another way, making CE .NET conform to the TRON standard). This is a sensible and obvious thing to do and is the kind of thing TRON is designed for. Nothing to see here, tinfoil hats back in pockets please, move along.

      --
      Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
  16. GNU by kahei · · Score: 3, Funny


    You may be thinking of a vendor sht. He's probably using GNU sht, which takes caliber etc from a file of tab (NOT space -- think make!) separated records -- exact syntax available in handy 'info' format.

    Frankly it's easier to just use windows and call IFirearmsEx::WGunSystemBulletOperationShootEx32(HG UN gun, HAMMO ammo, LPTRAJECTORY trajectory, LPSHOOTPARAMS params, DWORD reserved1, DWORD reserved2, BOOL &bHitYesNo)

    --
    Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.