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Microsoft Wants to Project "Cool" Image

rocketjam writes "C-Net is reporting that Microsoft is working to get their products placed in popular TV shows like Fox's "24" and HBO's "The Wire" as part of a push from executive Jim Allchin called 'cool form factor'. Like MacDonald's recent hip-makeover marketing efforts, Allchin wants to engender a hip, consumer brand image for the company which is largely perceived as an enterprise software company. Microsoft would like to capture some of the cachet that Apple Computer has among the fashionable and Hollywood tech elite."

90 of 568 comments (clear)

  1. Newest 24 by FannyMinstrel · · Score: 5, Funny

    The newest 24 preview has Jack sitting infront of a 17" PowerBook, with a G5 in the background. They both look amazing. What would microsoft do? Have a WindowsXP box sitting on the desk, with him holding it up, looking at the camera and saying "For all you security needs, use windows" and promptly proceeds to blast a cap in it's ass.

    1. Re:Newest 24 by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Informative

      Noah Wylie

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    2. Re:Newest 24 by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Funny

      And what tests would these be? The throw-as-far-as-you-can test in the latest issue of Czech Computing Monthly?

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    3. Re:Newest 24 by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bleah, that's just silly.

      An Opteron can clock no *higher* than 2GHz, no different than a G5. Architecturally an Opteron is very similar to a G5, more similar to a G5 than a P4, except that the G5 has a more efficient SIMD unit.

      An Athlon64 does clock higher than a G5 so on a basic Apples to apples comparison will perform higher... but an Athlon64 also cannot be put into a dual system, and still has a weaker SIMD unit, so it all pans out.

      Every system has a merit, and the mere existence of competition drives performance up. Without AMD, Intel would not drive the P4 nearly so hard. Now without Intel+AMD, IBM would not drive the PPC 970 so hard, and vice versa. Everyone has a role to play, and dismissing one of the actors only does your own party a disservice. Competition serves the consumer and customer, not slavish loyalty or fanboyism.

      I *welcome* every advance in the PC world because it drives Apple harder to compete. In reflection, if you prefer the AMD, you should similarly welcome every innovation and release from Apple and Intel to drive along AMD, or Apple and AMD to drive along Intel.

  2. Yet.. by the+uNF+cola · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yet all we see it in is TechTV and the 7o'clock news due to the latest virus issue. :\

    --

    --
    "I'm not bright. Big words confuse me. But Wanda loves me and that should be enough for you." - Cosmo

    1. Re:Yet.. by __past__ · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't bother... There are ~30 critical updates for IE that you'll still be missing.

  3. Cool can't be manufactured by maffstephens · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they try, they'll just end up like an embarrassing dad - hip and trendy, age 45. Thinks he's the coolest dancer on the dancer floor...

    --
    Programming with a dose of satire: http://www.SoftwareReality.com
    1. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by lateralus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I almost spilled coffee on the floor via my nose when I read the title. "Cool" is manufactured, mass produced and marketed every day. Did you think that the kids decieded that "Nike" is cool all by themselves? Who told them that "British Knights" is in/out? Get real, "Cool" is what's on the self with the biggest glossy poster.

      --
      If you outlaw the law, only criminals will have laws
    2. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Nodatadj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cool can be manufactured. Witness things like Nike Air trainers, smoking, Levis 501 jeans. The difference is that these things are aimed at the younger market, people who are desperately trying to find their place, so don't want to do or say anything that would alienate them from their peers.

      Computers on the other hand are not exactly the sort of thing that people get worried about. You don't have kids going home and crying to his dad because some of the kids in school laughed at him because he didn't have some cool make of computer. (Well, geeks might, but we already know they're not the exact epitomy of coolness).

      So, yeah, I'll agree with your outcome, even if I don't necessarily agree with your original statement. Still, we'll get to laugh at the dad thinking he's cool. Like we can do with McDonalds - No really, its more fun to go and dance outside a McDonalds than it is to go to a nightclub, no it is...

    3. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by j0e_average · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some things are "cool" for no other reason that they run counter to the mainstream. Apple has a throng of devotees partially because they aren't Microsoft.

      Add to this the fact that Apple produces kick-ass products and you can see why they remain cool. They've demonstrated that they aren't a passing phase.

      Microsoft can pay all of the money in the world and still not (and won't) buy that kind of following.

      Plus, you don't see Apple pushing the issue with DRM and all of that other bullshit. Once again they are counter (cool) to the mainstream (dud).

    4. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by DarkSarin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      hmmm....
      I think I agree with the grandparent in this case--cool is manufactured. If you think all the sports people wear Nike because they are a better or cooler shoe, then you are mistaken. Nike is worn by them because Nike gives them shoes, or pays them to wear them. Why else then do entire teams commonly wear the same exact brand of shoe?

      Your example with Porsche and Cadillac (BTW, mine is the correct spelling), is even more spurious--Cadillac doesn't TRY to be cool: they aren't in that market. Caddies are meant to be elegant, classy, and sophisticated, not cool. You will further notice that Porsche and Cadillac don't even market to the same people. Nor should they.

      All that said, I do agree with the idea that if you see XYZ company running Linux or BSD or MACOSX, then you will tend to like that OS more. Unfortunately, it only works for us nerds, geeks and the nerkles. Jane Doe doesn't get it, and this is something even M$ doesn't seem to understand (although they, of all people, should), because Jane Doe doesn't even realize that the people on the show or in the movie are using a particular type of computer. To her, its just a computer.

      Take my wife, as an example. The ONLY reason she knows ANYTHING about linux is because I use it at home--at some of her software doesn't run under linux. If it did, she wouldn't even care as much as she does. To her, as long as the sorry computer is working, it doesn't matter what it looks like.

      Most people don't know that they aren't looking at a windows box. Why not? Because to them, it's not about the OS, its about what they can do with the machine. Will their favorite software work? No? Then they take it back. Can they surf the net and drool over pr0n? yes? Then they keep it.

      The sad truth is that this won't work for M$ for the same reason that most people don't know much about linux and digital freedom--Americans don't CARE! The irony of it all is that M$ will be able to point to the stable marked and claim that its a result of their advertising, and unless they do some real market research they won't ever know.

      ("Hi, this is Cindy, and I would like to ask you a few questions about technology on television. Do you have a minute to spare? [this is where most people hang up] Yes? Good. In the most recent episode of Seinfeld what type of computer was he using?" At this point the person starts to break out in a sweat, having forgotten if they watched the show. After a minute they decide they did, but they really can't remember anyone using a computer, so they say the first thing that comes to mind, "I think it was a Dell." This is of course, wrong, as it was probably a Sony Vaio or something similar, but 'Cindy' doesn't care, she marks the little box that says 'windows boxen', and thanks them for their time, but only after asking about 300 other questions that take "only a minute" of their time.)

      I imagine that the real strength of linux is that eventually it will allow Dell to put out "Dell Linux", and then you will have "Sony Linux" and "AOLinux" and maybe even "Barbie Linux" (with unrealistic images of women portrayed prominently so that another generation of young females can be ruined by the unrealistic ideal), which would be closely related to "Playboy Linux", and "Hustler Linux", but wouldn't sell quite as well.

      See those things will be what wins the OS wars, because M$ will never allow enough control of windows to slip away for that type of branding, but Linux invites it.

      No, M$ is doomed to believe they won this "cool campaign", without ever knowing that 90% of the population doesn't CARE!

      (Okay, now that I'm done with my soapbox, does any one else want to borrow it?)

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    5. Re:Cool can't be manufactured by Viceice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft can pay all of the money in the world and still not (and won't) buy that kind of following.

      I dunno about a "cool" following, but their money can sure buy a following none the less. How else do you explain their legion of MCSEs?

      --
      Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
  4. Makes sense by sielwolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and isn't uncommon for any sort of brand to do this (Gateway had (still has) a deal with ER to have their machines prominently used). I really don't care either way. I just want movies to semi-accurately portray computers (although I didn't care for it, Matrix Reloaded did score marks for this) as compared to a lot of previous efforts (too many to mention). So if they do it from cmd.exe or sh, as long as it doesn't shake my ability to enjoy the movie, I'm fine with it.

    --
    What is music when you despise all sound?
  5. The Next Austin Powers Movie by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have it on good authority that Dr. Evil will be using BeOS.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    1. Re:The Next Austin Powers Movie by sacherjj · · Score: 2, Funny

      Does Mini-Me get to use WeeOS?

  6. Is that illegal??? by Mod+Me+God · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is illegal to place products in both terrestrial and satellite TV in the UK... although this story revolves around the US, this would have serious legal implications (based around subliminal advertising which the UK has very strong laws about) if these TV shows were ever exported.

    --
    --

    FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
  7. Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by questamor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple have appeared, without payment or request, in thousands of productions. From 24 to Seinfeld, to just about any stock photography that has a laptop in it, it's Apple Apple Apple all the way. I think it's curious Microsoft need to -pay- to get their products in this same position.

    And as much as I'm a mac lover, it's amazing how LITTLE benefit it's done Apple. What's our market share now? :P

    1. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think it's curious Microsoft need to -pay- to get their products in this same position.


      Take a look at a Mac: the computer case itself and the desktop. Now take a look at your average Windows box.

      Any questions?
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by tb3 · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you read the article,you'll see that HP is in on this.

      Hewlett Packard, whose marketing department was described as being so inept that, "If they had to sell sushi, they'd describe it as cold, dead, raw fish."

      HP is so dull they make Gates and Ballmer look like MTV VJs in comparison.

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

    3. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by BensonLeung · · Score: 2, Informative
      Seinfeld, for the first few seasons, had a Mac Classic. He used it in a couple of episodes actually... A little later on he got it replaced, but NOT with a Windows machine...

      He actually has (presumably his own) 20th Anniversary Macintosh ( a black flat panel Mac with a Bose sound system and cost $10,000 back in 1997 ). It was there till the series ended. He never had a windows machine on his desk.

    4. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by Slack3r78 · · Score: 3, Funny
      HP is so dull they make Gates and Ballmer look like MTV VJs in comparison.

      What? Don't tell me you've never seen this video of the fearless leader Ballmer? Or perhaps this picture of Bill showing off his awesome fashion sense? I don't think you can get much cooler than those guys. ;)
    5. Re:Microsoft paying for what's free to Apple by RumorControl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      From a production standpoint Macs have an advantage that PC's will have a hard time overtaking. If you are a prop master, you like Macs for three simple reasons:

      A: they look good just sitting there. it's a prop, that's all. and the audience can recognigize the "computer" aspect of it as well as the "new glitizy paperweight" without looking like several beige turds stacked on top of each other. Clearly our hero has his act togething since his computer looks so much better then ours

      B: They are very reliable. When you need them to perform in front of a camera, they do. back in the day of DOS, no one wanted a PC on the set unless you were trying to show frustration..

      C: not universal, but the "all in one" design had a lot to do with it. less parts to keep track of means less work for the propmaster. the SE30 was a revolution for the stage. it could fit in a little cardboard box and it didn't weigh a ton. The mouse you hired as the set designer could move it without calling for the gaffer. The iMac brought that back.

  8. Re:About time... by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It already has the street cred it deserves.

    It's just trying to get the street cred it craves.

    It's important to make sure it doesn't get it. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to make sure it doesn't. This message will self-destruct in 15 months.

    --

    -WolfWithoutAClause

    "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  9. MS in South Park movie by mr.henry · · Score: 5, Funny
    I remember Gates and Windows had a great product placement in the South Park movie:

    Fucking Windows 98! Get Bill Gates in here! You told us Windows 98 would be faster, and more efficient, with better access to the Internet!

    As Gates tries to defend Windows, the General blows his head off. I thought that was pretty cool.

  10. it's more than just publicity by thermopile · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Microsoft has a lot more to do to present a "cool factor" than just get its hardware shown on popular TV shows in conspicuous places. Although there is probably an Apple rep on the site of "24" making sure that Apple logo is as blatantly obvious as possible, it wouldn't be the same with most of Microsoft's offerings.

    It has to look cool, which, IMHO, Microsoft has not grasped yet. A large part of the appeal -- and probably a good reason why the directors of 24 allow it -- of Apple is the cool factor. The hardware is slick, the buttons are shiny, and it doesn't look like most other computers out there.

    What product would microsoft have in its arsenal that could fill the above description?

    --

    "Diplomacy is something you do until you find a rock." --Richard Pound

    1. Re:it's more than just publicity by IRNI · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Another part of the beauty of 24 that some seem to miss is the good guys use macs, the bad guys use pcs. I think they were dells infact. :)

  11. Windows and Hardware by puregen1us · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But Microsoft makes very little hardware.

    Apple's cool comes from its superb hardware lineup. Nobody would choose any other laptop given the choice of an Apple powerbook and an equal PC one. The same holds for every other item they produce. The G5s look stunning and are too quiet to tell if they are on.

    Everybody who sees an iPod wants one, and they work fine with Windows.

    Microsoft con't itself up its credibility by showing Windows, it has to be in a cool computer, they need to team up with a Hardware manufacturer. Alienware do nice cases...

    Apple's OS might be great but how often do you really see what its doing on TV. Just a snap of a guy with a computer (albeit a tiny, thin laptop with a glowing apple on it), or a loading bar while the MacOS takes down Alien hardware through a non existant interface. ;)

  12. I can see it now... by Viceice · · Score: 4, Funny

    (Place: Matrix Core, Time:Time? There is no time.)

    Neo: "Trinity, you hack in, I'll keep Agent Smith busy. How much time you need?"

    (Wack! Wack! Pow!)

    Trinity: (Looks at Micro$oft Windoze(TM) login prompt) "We're in."

    --
    Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
  13. Fab Five to the rescue! by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 5, Funny

    With style-retarded heads like Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, they've got a good way to go. The reason that Apple has the image it does is STEVE JOBS. Face it, whether you like him or not (personally I do) he is a stylish man. Back in the 80s he always wore those black turtlenecks and trendy glasses. He KNOWS what style is. Unless someone want's to get the guys from Queer Eye to do a makeover on Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, the business image is going to be hard to break. Besides, I can predict what's going to happen anyway. They will try to add coolness to their image and then proclaim success to the investors after six months regardless of the true outcome. Eventually everyone will want to look like Microsoft products because of the buzz surrounding the new look. The buzz that was self-perpetuating. This will work because most business folks don't have the slightest idea what style really is. They think "roughing it" is wearing a pair of khakis and a polo shirt to work on Fridays.

    1. Re:Fab Five to the rescue! by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 3, Funny

      So you're suggesting, "Apple Eye for the Windows Guys"? I don't see Bill in a black turtleneck and torn jeans. I don't see Balmer becoming a vegetarian.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  14. Heh. by Kaemaril · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmm. I for one think The Blue Screen Of Death deserves a guest shot on "Dead Like Me" :)

  15. Since when by snowlick · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since when was a massive omni-mega corp ever cool? They are currently the bully in the arena. Smaller companies that are more agile and willing to accept major risks will always come out on top as far as "cool factor" goes. That's the nature of the game. MS's reputation is all about ubiquity and uniformity - and image that they've crafted very carefully through the years.

    Sadly, MS will always win out by ripping off a smaller company's ideas and making knock-offs. I don't know why they wouldn't be happy with that. Let the other guy take the risk, and if it works - steal the idea! Let the other guy be cool, then emulate him. It's been working quite well for them, so who cares?

    --
    Crystal Meth: Would you ingest somthing made from a poisonous gas and an explosive metal? You do it every day -- Salt!
    1. Re:Since when by GoofyBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Since when was a massive omni-mega corp ever cool?

      Take a look at anything that was cool in the past 20 years and either it is or it eventually had a big corporation behind it.

      Look at any popular music group/singer. Big corp behind them.
      Look at Nike/Adidas.
      Look at any hip/cool tv show or movie.
      Lots of sports teams or events have big corporations behind it.

      Can M$ buy cool? Yes and its been done many times before.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    2. Re:Since when by adarn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You people are confusing the appearance of coolness with actual coolness. Microsoft is purchasing the appearance of coolness, which many people accept as cool, since they don't know any better. They are not purchasing actual coolness, which usually involves no money changing hands. They don't want actual coolness tho, they want people to buy their products, which the appearance of coolness is much more effective at doing.

    3. Re:Since when by GoofyBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At first read your post sounds like a comedy sketch invloving Henry Winkler.

      But "appearness of coolness" = "actual coolness" to the general public and thats all that really matters.

      Does Apple have the "appearness of coolness" or are they "actualy cool"? What is the EXACT determining factor? Is it a subjective factor?

      If you don't think something is "actually cool" are you right or are you wrong? How would you know?

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    4. Re:Since when by Spoing · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Since when was a massive omni-mega corp ever cool?

      Coke. Pepsi. A multitude of alcohol and tobacco companies. RIAA member companies. In the /. crowd, IBM to some respect.

      I agree with your main point, though the cardinal rule for marketing is "Whatever we aren't make people think we are". This is largely effective -- so much so that I automatically think the opposite when seeing an advertisement just to get some idea of what the facts might be.

      Coke and Pepsi are carbonated beverages with flavoring additives and sweetners. If you drink a Vernors/RC Cola/Dr Brown's Celray, most people will think "WTF is that?". If you drink Diet Pepsi the same people will think...well, nothing.

      What shows more character? Well, neither or if you want a soda one of the non-Pepsi/Coke choices though they are harder or near impossible to come by outside of specific geographic areas.

      Full disclosure: I buy a few gallons of diet Coke and Pepsi a week. Haven't had a Celray ever, though one friend swears by them.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  16. Oh really? by alib001 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the article: After some early success with shows like "24" last season...

    Maybe last season but in the first series: 24's Good Guys Do Use Macs

    While Bauer and most of the other agents in his unit used Macs, the traitor used a laptop made by Dell. The baddies, a group of renegade Serbs, also use Dell machines.

    1. Re:Oh really? by clifyt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup -- the good guys always use Macs...and on the Mac mailing lists, some of the 24 geeks (I love that show...and occasionally look at the 24 spoiler sites...not sure if I'm at their level though). But several threads popped up when Nina started using the Dell in the first season...she started off using a Mac...they believed it was symbolic of her gradual move to the dark side.

      Sooo...knowing Macs are used by the good guys, why shouldn't M$ go for the side of evil. Evil has a LOT more money and there are a lot more folks on that side of things than would be willing to be good because being good means making choices that most folks just really wouldn't want to take on...

      M$ need to make a DeathStar PC. Something that looks evil incarnate. Something that says Bad Motherfucker on the side. Something that a goody goody wouldn't use. Something that impresses upon you that its YOUR job to keep it up to date, because their ain't no hand holding out in the fronteers and virus protection ain't our concern.

      Microsoft needs to embrace its position in the world and stop trying to run to Jobs every few years to ask him for a little Karma. Microsoft needs to impress upon folks that they are not the best, but if you fucking want to get anywhere, you will pay the fucking $300 a year to keep your PC up to date. Its racketteering...but done right, they can do it -- as they are now -- but make those of us out there that feel we'd been slipped the Anal Ease and know the worst is yet to come, know that this is how it is, it might not be how it should be, but if you don't like it, you are welcome to join the pansies using wussie OSs like X.

      I would respect them far more if they did this...maybe I'd not be typing this on a cute little iBook that always attracts chicks in the coffee houses but negates any cool points I might have with hard core geeks (even though if you looked at my screen, I'm probably in terminal SSH'd somewhere else)...

  17. Clippy by thinkninja · · Score: 2, Funny

    "It looks like you are saving the world", offered Clippy. "Would you like help?"
    "Just open a socket", growled Bauer.

    --
    "The number of Unix installations has grown to ten, with more expected." (Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd ed.; june 1972)
  18. Win ME Video by KillerHamster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This reminds me of the "Windows ME Introduction Video" that showed several extremely happy people using "digital media" technology, "recovering from problems easily" (kid with hammer attacks keyboard), and experiencing the power of "home networking." I really love the part where Dad shoots a video of the wife and kid and sends it spinning around an animated globe to Grandma's computer. And despite all the marketing hype, all the non-geeks I know who have used WinME universally agree that it sucks.

    Besides, most of the people I know who are clueless about computers hate computers, and nothing will ever change that. Not marketing, and not attempts at making software easier to use. And such people wouldn't even notice the latest toy from HP on their favorite TV show.

  19. M$ on TV. by code_echelon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They may want to make there OS as stable as Apple or Linux before they try to advertise it all over the place in television shows. On numerous occassions I have seen M$ computers on TV at there trademark blue screen. This has happened on several shows including Howard Stern and CNN. I have also seen this on electronic billboards. M$ obviously needs to take a break from there marketing tactics and get back to programming, this is obvious as there is a constant threat of new vulnerabilities in there software due to the poorly laid out architecture.

    1. Re:M$ on TV. by Texas+Rose+on+Lava+L · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They may want to make there OS as stable as Apple or Linux before they try to advertise it all over the place in television shows.

      Notice that none of the shows mentioned are shown live. If they get a BSOD, they just do another take. The viewers never see a Windows crash, no matter how crappy the OS is.

      Remember, image is everything, and it's cheaper to make the OS look stable on TV than it is to actually make it stable in real life.

  20. The solution is oh so simple... by Linker3000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    All MS has to do is rewite some basic error messages and we go from...

    This program has performed an illegal operation and has been shut down. Do you wish to generate an error report and send it to Microsoft?

    to

    Hey dude, Bill reckons you've been working so hard in Word that you deserve a break so we've closed it down for you. Go grab a diet soda (we've gotta watch that sugar rush!) or chill out by the water cooler for a while and then return refreshed to start all over again. We're so glad you've chosen to take a break we've even emailed Bill and told him you're not skipping on your personal time.

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
    1. Re:The solution is oh so simple... by Pseudonym · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh, man. I just got flashes of a paperclip with an eyebrow ring and a goatee.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  21. HOW??? by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple makes physical objects with a distinctive look. The product just has to appear for a second. Nobody has to interrupt the flow of dialogue to say anything about it.

    What's Microsoft going to do? Ask them to show people booting up their PC so that the Windows logo takes over the screen and that musical sound plays?

    Have cool twenty-somethings joke about how to get rid of that obnoxious Clippy?

    This is just a dumb upper-management idea. Microsoft doesn't make the kind of products for which product placement works.

    Furthermore, Apple's appeal to a certain group is directly connected to their willingness to make strong, emphatic design statements. You may hate the way a Mac looks or you may love it, but you can't be indifferent to it. Other PC makers may take tentative steps in making their boxes charcoal instead of beige, or making the front plastic bulge a bit instead of being perfectly flat, but they're not willing to be emphatic--and neither is Microsoft.

    Contrast the Apple "switcher" ads--which I personally hated--with the bland, characterless attempt Microsoft made to do the same thing. You knew the Apple switchers were real people. And it came as no surprise to find that the Microsoft "switchers" were stock photographs.

    1. Re:HOW??? by cnkeller · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What's Microsoft going to do? Ask them to show people booting up their PC so that the Windows logo takes over the screen and that musical sound plays?

      It's easy to forget that MS makes hardware. Keyboards, mice, *cough* *cough* tablet PC's. It wouldn't surprise me to see this is the route they go down.

      I've owned MS products for a few years now and am proud to say that my mouse and keyboard haven't crashed once or been hacked. More than I can say for their software though....

      --

      there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots

  22. Simpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bill Gates: Mr. Simpson?
    Homer: You don't look so rich...
    Bill Gates: Don't let the haircut fool you, I am exceedingly wealthy.
    Homer: [quietly] Get a load of the bowl-job, Marge!
    Bill Gates: Your Internet ad was brought to my attention, but I can't figure out what, if
    anything, Compuglobalhypermeganet does, so rather than risk competing with
    you, I've decided simply to buy you out.

    Homer: I reluctantly accept your proposal!
    Bill Gates: Well everyone always does. Buy 'em out, boys!
    [Gates' lackeys trash the room.]
    Homer: Hey, what the hell's going on!
    Bill Gates: Oh, I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks! [insane laughter]

  23. Re:About time... by CountBrass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it deserved it, it would have it already. Personally I don't see it working, for two reasons: 1. Mass-market by definition cannot be cool. Cool requires a degree of exclusivity. 2. Microsoft's philosophy is "pile em' high sell 'em cheap, and fix the bugs eventually". Again, this is the anti-thesis of cool. Basically MS lack the perfectionist drive. I'm not making either of these points to knock MS as a company - they're very succesful at what they do and make a ton of cash. It's just that what do is incompatible with being "cool". Edward

    --
    Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  24. What the fsck is wrong with you people? by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Funny

    The butterfly isn't cool enough for you? Flying around without a jetpack isn't cool? Right. It's way freaking cool. They even use songs by Madonna and the Rolling Stones.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  25. Re:About time... by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Basically MS lack the perfectionist drive. I'm not making either of these points to knock MS as a company - they're very succesful at what they do and make a ton of cash.

    You're slightly wrong here. They have the perfectionist drive in spades. It's just that they are trying to perfect making money, not perfect making product.

    --

    -WolfWithoutAClause

    "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  26. Re:About time... by darien · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's just trying to get the street cred it craves. It's important to make sure it doesn't get it.

    Thankfully, Microsoft's success in having become 'the establishment' will make it very hard for them to acquire street cred. That sort of perception tends to attach to rebels, free-thinkers and high performers, not monolithic institutions. While it's true that MS itself has shown breathtaking contempt for the law, using their software is not going to make you a rebel without a cause; it's going to make you a sheep without an alternative.

  27. sigh... by lxs · · Score: 5, Funny

    We all know what's going to happen now:

    Yes, Longhorn will be renamed "Windows Extreme"

  28. Well, good frigging luck... by SoTuA · · Score: 2, Insightful

    to Microsoft on this. Their problem is that, in 99% of the times, a windows box looks like ass, and TV/Movies are all about visuals. Apple has got them beat, beat, beat. It would need shots of the desktop, and, unless somebody in the movie is USING the computer, that won't be easy...

    Sorry Billy-boy, but you must get a cool box first before somebody thinks MS is cool.

  29. I pity da foo'. by rikun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Man, the subject line says it all. They're going to waste massive amounts of money trying to be the cool kids. It's not gunna happen... 40 year old logic in advertising and whatnot seem to think just make it "xtreme" and it's good to go. I'm waiting to see Microsoft team up with some hardware manufacturer and come out with computers with skateboards plastered all over them or something. Their new slogan: Microsoft; KICKING YOU RIGHT IN THE FACE SINCE 1988 Meh. This is bad as Dell trying to make "cool" gaming computers.

  30. BSOD improvement by arcanumas · · Score: 3, Funny

    If they want to be more "hip" then they should improve the part of Windows that users see the most. The BSOD. They should make it animated with sound and some cool phrase , preferably from the list of Windows Haiku.

    --
    Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
  31. Maybe they should look at their TV advertising... by Goonie · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Case in point: Microsoft is currently advertising Windows Server 2003 on our local TV (the ad is American, though).

    The setup is that a besuited guy wanders in on a what is presumably the IT department. The IT department looks like the commercial director has taken the most boring people on the talent agency's books and told the costume and make up people "think bland". They are all dancing extremely awkwardly and drinking some unidentified liquid (the way these people are acting, it sure ain't alcohol) out of blue plastic cups.

    The guy asks what's the party, at which point the head IT guy explains how they had magically consolidated the Active Directory groups from 70 to 4 thus allowing them to roll out new apps to the sales force in minutes (or some such hooey). The suit looks nonplussed, until Head IT Guy explains that this will save the company millions of dollars. The ad closes with the suit leading the IT department in a line dance, which they manage to make look just as awkward and dorky.

    I realise the ad probably has to be designed to it can be shown everywhere from Salt Lake City to Singapore, but, jeez, if you want to make your brand cool try not to associate it with complete dorks... :)

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
  32. Fighting the symptoms by gidds · · Score: 4, Insightful
    What's the betting that M$ never even thought to ask themselves why Apple, or other companies, have a cool image? Why people want their products, why their users feel so much more attached to them than any M$ user does?

    No. Brute force and ignorance, every time. "We want a cool image; find out how much that'll cost, and buy it."

    Unfortunately, so far, it's a policy that's mostly worked. And if they spend enough in the right places, I fear it'll work again. What does that say about society?

    --

    Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

  33. IBM tried to be cool. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Funny


    IBM wanted people to think OS/2 was "cool", so the company began calling it "Warp", which to the people at the time who were likely to be old enough and powerful enough to make big purchases meant "bend out of shape in such a way as to possibly render useless".

    Well, I'm here to report that it worked. IBM did in fact succeed in associating the word "cool" with OS/2. IBM lost a "cool" billion dollars on OS/2. In the years immediately following, IBM lost another "cool" billion dollars. That's positively frigid.

    OS/2 is still "cool" in the sense that, because it is dead, it is no longer warm.

    So, that's a story about a big company trying to be cool.

  34. Aaaah, grasshoppah, you forget one thing. by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Manufactured products can be cool, but cool can't be manufactured.

    I personally thought back to my first use of OS X, and "cool" was amongst the first thought.
    "Right On" and "Fucking-A" soon followed.

    My first use of Windows XP followed a similar vein, only the complete opposite; "Oh...MY...GOD", "What the FUCK!!", "Make it STOP!!", "For the love of GOD MAKE IT STOP", "What fucking rocket scientist thought this was a good idea?", "Why am I having childhood flashbacks of Romper Room?"

    Here's a clue for Microsoft:
    Make it simple: Turn the crap OFF/un-integrate.
    Make it look good: See above (XP looks HORRIBLE)
    Make it secure: Turn the crap off by default.
    Make it functional: see all of the above.

    Oh, and *LISTEN* to what people want. Not like windows 98 beta when 78% of people said "NO!" to integrating Internet Explorer into the OS.

    (sheesh)

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  35. Nice Try by mcbridematt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone see the new M$ WinServer 2003 Ads (I live in Australia, if you want to know)

    Boss: Whats the party?
    Geek: We just finished a Active Directory rollout, merging 70 domains into 4
    Boss looks confused
    Geek goes on about some crap 1 day instead of weeks
    Geek: Its going to save us 2 million dollars
    Boss smiles and takes drink from Geek.

    Here is a better version:
    Boss: Whats the party?
    Geek: We just finished a Linux rollout. Now customers can get their data 24/7 instead of 3/24. We also managed to merge 1,000 servers into 100.m
    Boss looks confused.
    Geek: Its going to save us
    Boss takes drink from Geek.

  36. Money would be better spent on .... by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    improving the OS

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  37. No by Xenex · · Score: 2, Informative
    It is illegal to place products in both terrestrial and satellite TV in the UK
    No. Not at all.

    The BBC can't, though. But the BBC isn't everything.
  38. Apple's branding success by stev_mccrev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Quite a lot of Apple's "cool factor" among the "fashionable and Hollywood tech elite", (especially from the marketing point of view) comes from the instant recognition of Apple products.

    If you see a silver wide screen laptop with a little grey apple on the back, you know you're looking at a G4 powerbook. You can be almost certain it's running Mac OS X. You know what you're looking at - the hardware, the software, what the machine is good at.

    That doesn't happen with PC's. There could be anything in that box.

    With Apple releasing both hardware AND software, they have the ability to create products that consumers can instantly recognise (that's an iBook, that's an iMac, etc), and know what to expect from them.

    This has allowed Apple to "engender a hip, consumer brand image" that MS do NOT have (and are going to struggle gaining).

    Stev.
    1. Re:Apple's branding success by 90XDoubleSide · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, Apple's products definitely have the advantage of being recognizable in a way that other brands aren't: you can tell just from the shapes and materials. I like it when shows cover up the logos on the computers so as not to be giving free advertizing: what, are we going to think it might be that other rectangular brushed-metal laptop?

      --
      "Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
  39. Next Rolling Stones theme after "Start me up"... by BerntB · · Score: 2, Funny
    This means that the next Microsoft theme song will be "Sympathy for the Devil"? :-)

    They could even advertise in a cool comic! Lucifer, the Sandman followup. :-)

    " Why settle with the lesser of two evils?

    Forget Cthulhu -- go Microsoft!

    Let's go to a hot place today! "

    --
    Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
  40. Re:Geeks are cool? by zdislaw · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "Coolness is something that has some barrier to entry (usually cost) to the majority but is still desired by the masses."

    Barriers to geekingess:

    • Money (cost of gear)
    • Education (for an average person to learn what they need to know to "geek out")
    • Fashion sense (c'mon, this shit ain't easy. Toughskins are harder to find than they used to be and not everyone's mom will do their clothes shopping for them)
    • Lingo (takes practive to be able to use multiple acronyms in every sentence)

    But seriously, how is this different (to a markeeting firm) than any other lifestyle?

    I don't think it would be hard for a savvy marketing company to make geeks cool. When you try to make a lifestyle or personality cool, you don't present all the aspects of that thing, and you certainly are not honest about presenting it.

    Nike doesn't spend much time showing us how injuries affect athlete's lives. Or how early in the morning practice is. Or how intensely stressfull that level of competition is and how hard it is on them.

    Marketers will probably not focus on the less "cool-able" aspects of geekiness, but in the increasingly tech-driven society we live in I don't think it will be long before geek is cool. You don't have to make average people into geeks, you just have to get them to admire aspects of geeks and aspire to those aspects. Make it look like geeks earn more money than regular people. That's a good place to start.

    --
    bad sig...no donut.
  41. Virii by RedHat_Linux_Man · · Score: 2, Funny

    They're gonna have a pretty rough time trying to convince everyone that worms are actually cool...

  42. Re:About time... by Kenshin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Microsoft's philosophy is "pile em' high sell 'em cheap, and fix the bugs eventually".

    I can't beleive you're saying Office and Windows, with their 80% profit margin, are sold "cheap".

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

  43. MI-5 too (spoiler-beware!) by microcars · · Score: 5, Interesting
    If anyone watches MI-5 (similar to "24", but involves the British Secret Service), ALL the computers in the entire MI-5 complex are ALL Apple!

    Wintel laptops are used as Trojan Horses filled with C4. (no really!)

    I've seen a treatment of the final episode of the show, funding is cut and a new manager is brought in who attempts to "modernize" and "standardize" the MI-5 by "upgrading" to Windows boxes.

    I will not reveal the ending, but let's just say its not pretty.

    --
    I like microcars
  44. Re:About time... by Viceice · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not true.

    What do you think the RIAA is doing? They mass market music on MTV and such to make it desirable, then they sell CD's at inflated prices at such a level that only those of a certain economic level with the disposable can buy them, maintaining exclusivity and thus ensuring "coolness".

    Marketing: The end-result of 50 years of Psychoanalytical research + Greed.

    --
    Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
  45. MS needs product placement on The Soprano's by mbone · · Score: 3, Funny

    Following this line of reasoning, MS needs product placement on The Soprano's, and maybe a story line about how Tony wants to expand from cartage into software license enforement, but is scared off by the aggressive tactics of the Business Software Alliance.

  46. Bingo by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I realise the ad probably has to be designed to it can be shown everywhere from Salt Lake City to Singapore, but, jeez, if you want to make your brand cool try not to associate it with complete dorks... :)

    You've hit the nail on the head. MS wants to be every image at some point or another. Big Reliable Bank Partner. No wait... SupaDope Xbox playa. No wait... Your Friendly Neighbourhood PC weenie. No wait....

    They can't have it all ways. As someone pointed out above, while Microsoft can rent cool, they can never, ever be cool. Its just not the way it works.

    Like trying to pick your own nickname. Apple became cool years ago and that's what they are still. MS, much more powerful financially, cannot claim underdog status, and no one in their right mind can associate themselves with a global behemoth like that.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  47. From the horse's mouth by craw · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is Apple's info about product placement.

    The article is kind of dated, but the fundamentals still hold true today.

  48. Re:About time... by CountBrass · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Compared to the price of a product in which all of the bugs were fixed - yes I am saying it's cheap.

    There is a general rule, which applies particularly to software development that 80% of the value takes 20% of the effort. That last 20% of the value costs the remaining 80%. It's the 80:20 rule. Microsoft are masters of this rule. Many failed companies failed because they didn't take this rule into account. Edward

    --
    Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
  49. Re:I'm not sure by Botchka · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You paint a garbage can platinum, and it's still just a garbage can. --Nikki Sixx

    --
    Money not found! A)bort, R)etry, D)eclare Bankruptcy
  50. Maybe they could... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Funny

    spraypaint butterflies, hearts and peace signs all over downtown sidewalks. Seemed to work for IBM. Oh wait.

  51. Do not call it "Blue Screen of Death" Anymore! by RinzeWind · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now it's Cool Screen of Death!

  52. Why not do something even better? by KC7GR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Instead of spending loads of $$ to project an image, why not spend it towards FIXING THE BUGS and SECURITY HOLES in their stuff?

    In short: Isn't improving the actual product(s) more important than seeing some cookie-cutter TV star using them?

    They can put all the TV spin they want on their OS's and apps. It won't do them one iota of good if said OS and apps remain in their current state, security-wise (which means they're about as secure as a block of Swiss cheese).

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

  53. The easiest way to spot the villans in 24 is to .. by burgburgburg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    see what OS they are using. All the good guys in episode 1 and 2 used Macs. All the bad guys (including Nina, it was a giveaway) used PCs.

  54. hate the new mcd by LuxFX · · Score: 3, Funny

    Like MacDonald's recent hip-makeover marketing efforts

    Yeah, but I really despise the new McDonald's 'hip' commercials! If Microsoft wants to do the same thing, I'll probably wind up hating...

    oh wait, nevermind

    --
    Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
  55. Lipstick on a Pig? by linux_author · · Score: 2, Insightful

    - lipstick on a pig is still a pig with lipstick...

    - screenwriters and other industry hacks know the best platform and products to use - and they aren't from the software monopoly...

    - i wouldn't be surprised to see consumer and corporate anger regarding the software monopoly become even more prevalent on the large and small screen...

    - the Evil Empire can spend all the money in its coffers on improving its image, but any effort won't remove the past or erase its evil history...

  56. Re:About time... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that MS avoids sqaushing bugs due to costs. I don't believe this is the case. They are willing to live with bugs because they do not directly affect their bottom line.

    If MS decides to increase their budget for a particular application, it will be to add features. Features tend to add even more bugs (and bloat), but they are great for marketing and hence sales. Features directly add value. Bugfixes do not. People (naively) expect their software to work as advertised. Customers don't want to have to pay extra for the company to fix something that was never supposed to have been broken.

    Commercial customers with tech-savvy sys-admins can be a problem here. This is the only reason that MS ever developed the NT series of OSes. At least there MS paid at least some attention to reliability and bugfixes. But the point is that it was only because they felt they had no choice. Below a certain level of reliability Linux/Unix would just be too tempting an alternative for this market segment.

    I realize that many /.ers see MS's problem as one of its commercial nature and monopolistic ambitions to dominate the world etc. While I agree with those criticisms, the essential nature of their problem from my POV as a potential customer is this features-not-bug-fixes philosophy of theirs. From a strictly profit-making, shareholder-value POV, I can see their point, but from an end-user perspective it does make me despise them and their slimy make-a-fast-buck used car salesman ethics.

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  57. "The thing is... by Morky · · Score: 2, Funny

    "This thing is, they have no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean it in a big way."
    - Steve Jobs on Microsoft

  58. Re:About time... by Spoing · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Thankfully, Microsoft's success in having become 'the establishment' will make it very hard for them to acquire street cred.

    Do you drink cola or soda/pop, and if you do what national or multi-national marketing effort does it have?

    Would you feel OK holding on to a can of RC Cola? How about a Vernors? Celray?

    Where did that 'street cred' come from anyway?

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  59. Re:About time... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, I would say Cool requires a degree of apparent exclusivity. Nike (to use the same example as everyone else here) is "Cool" but is also heavily mass-marketed. A product is cool when you have managed to engender the appearance of exclusivity in your target market. I see people with Nikes everywhere: the things aren't particularly special or exclusive but the people that buy them seem to think they are. Now can they not be? Michael Jordan wears them! Whatever you think about Nike, that was one phenomenally successful marketing campaign.

    Apple Macintoshes, on the other hand, achieve their coolness by actually being exclusive. While Apple is a major corporation, their share of mouse-wielding eyeballs pales in comparison to Microsoft's. Consequently, Macs are exclusive for the simple reason that there just aren't that many out there. Just knowing someone with a Mac is unusual, whereas it's hard to find someone that doesn't use a Windows box.

    Apple plays heavily and deliberately into this, by carefully positioning themselves to appeal to those that prefer to have something distinctive. This only works if most other people can't have it, and it helps if your "cool" product costs more too. And if it works better and actually looks cooler than the rest ... "whoa, cool." Apple has successfully made themselves into something of the Rolex of PC manufacturers. As an aside, I find it ironic that Apple Computer, whose early products gave millions of people their first taste of computer power in defiance of IBM and the mainframe world, has taken this elitist road. Probably it was the only way they could survive, given the boneheaded mistakes they made years ago.

    Even so, I think that Americans also appreciate the underdog aspect to Apple's efforts (and Linux, and all others that are competing with Microsoft). That is another part of being cool: buying and supporting something that isn't mainstream from someone that is struggling against all odds. Microsoft is the J.R. Ewing of the computer world (everybody loves to hate them), and an illegal monopoly to boot, and they will have a hard time ever convincing the public that they are an underdog.

    So, yes. I agree that the public perceiving Microsoft as being cool is farfetched at this point. On the other hand, given the public's ability to swallow, well, pretty much anything that has enough advertising dollars behind it I wouldn't say that it couldn't happen. Microsoft sure has the dollars. And if they can manage to convince the buying public that your average Dell or HP/Compaq box is "cool", they will have pulled off something never before recorded in the annals of marketing history.


    Microsoft: Where do we want you to go today?

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  60. Re:Care to cite a reference to that ? by brianosaurus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple has an article about it. Its an old article, and its on Apple's site, so make your own conclusions. But it is a reference :)

    --
    blog
  61. You're way out of touch by bobobobo · · Score: 2
    1. Mass-market by definition cannot be cool.

    Uhh not exactly cool, although they'll never admit to it. Conformity is cool. Kids all act the same damn way. they all try and be different and rebel, all doing it the same way homogenizing their style. Look at how all the white kids follow mass market rap like eminem and so forth.

    All MS needs to do is harness this form of pseduo-mass rebellion. They'll target linux like those trucker hats that were briefly in style. At first rare and cool, now trendy poseur and lame.

  62. Re:Whatever... by gmack · · Score: 2, Insightful

    New MS corporate themesong: "Pretty fly for a white Guy" by Offspring.

    Seriously though, Apple already has the "cool" image MS wants to take. They are in most of the movies and look how much marketshare it got them? The only possible explanation for this is that someone up top is going though a midlife crisis or soemthing.

  63. Re:About time... by danila · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Bullshit. When MS started making Windows and Office, it didn't sell these products with 80% margin. Neither did its competitors. The market was simply too small to support high margins. Software costs money to develop and it costs almost nothing to produce and distribute. Once the market reached its current size, people naturally expect MS to lower prices, as microeconomics dictate. The problem is, MS highjacked microeconomics by becoming a monopoly. That's why people are pissed off.

    You see, most hardware drops in price as the market grows. But for some reason, this doesn't happen with MS software.

    --
    Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  64. Re:About time... by Sj0 · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you think the music industry today fosters fucked up, unique music, you must have missed the 80's...and 70's...and 60's...

    --
    It's been a long time.