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Women Live Longer Because Men Are Dumb
stevesliva writes "CNEWS Canada reported on Sept. 30th that, 'If men dropped their risky ways and bad habits they would live just as long as women.' The story was an interesting spin on a study by the Canadian Institute for Health Information, which spun the study very differently. (Thanks to ThisIsTrue for bringing the respun spin to my attention.)"
So what? We have DICKS !! Har har...
Pass me the cigarrete and the booze.
Is it just me or did the life expectancy drop when deaths from preventable causes are excluded?
Someone needs to check their math
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
One thing this article absolutely fails to mention is the fact that many dangerous and unhealthy (in a sense) jobs are usually done by men.
I'm not a sexist or anything stupid like that, but how many female welders or construction workers (ones who do the construction) do you know?
When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
I'd rather take risks and have fun during the years I've got rather than add crummy useless old years on at the end.
I mean, say I exercise every day for 15 minutes for the rest of my life. That's a lot of frickin' time. I could be having fun in that time. Sure, I might live longer, but those will be years when I'm old and decrepit.
There's no point in adding more years if those years aren't fun. To have a lot of fun you usually have to take risks. Acceptable risks though, no drugs or stunt motorcycle jumps. Can't be that stupid. Just a little stupid, like bungee jumping and sky diving.
I repeat many times, live better lives, not longer ones.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
...I agree. I do all sorts of dumb risk-taking things. No doubt my days are numbered!
(On the other hand, it keeps life, um, "exciting". Yup.)
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
If men dropped their risky ways and bad habits they would live just as long as women.
Of course, we wouldn't have any fire fighters, police officers, construction workers, or coal miners, either.
... if you can live longer without taking risks? My life would be boring if I didnt light a bonfire with a molitov cocktail or launch firecrackers out of a slingshot now and then.
/usr/games/fortune
Leave off the apostrophe in the URL: http://www.intuitor.com/statistics/SimpsonsParadox .html
I don't see how these numbers could mean anything other than that the subset who died from risky behaviors died, on average, at an older age than those who died of non-risky causes.
Simpson's requires some correlation with some other factor, but I don't see a candidate here. That link shows that people with a HS physics background get lower physics scores than those without any preparation -- because they are taking two different classes.
For these life expectancy numbers, I'm not sure what the analog of two different classes could be (as long as we're not combining human lifespan with, say, dog lifespan), so I don't think Simpson's is the explanation here.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
I also do not drive. I'll take rides from time to time, but I do not drive... Don't even have a license. Statistically, driving is almost like playing Russian roulette. Humans are such geniuses! Let's drive around in little metal boxes at lethal speeds... a few feet away from each other! Brilliant! Not to mention the fact that people here in the US will drive rather than walk or bike a few blocks... even with the extremely high costs of insurance and gasoline. Oh, and driving isn't exactly exercise. I bike a mere 10-20 miles a month, but I'd hate to think what sort of shape I'd be in if I didn't bike at all...
Anyway, the neat thing is when all the other people ingest toxins, or drive six blocks instead of walking/biking, and then die off early, guess what? They're doing the rest of us a favor. By dying off early, they'll consume less of the limited resources of planet Earth. So go on... be brain-dead and smoke, drink. Don't forget to drive your metal instruments of death around, too. Because when you die, the planet can stop wasting its finite resources on you. ;)
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
Men die sooner than women because we want to.
Its that till death do us part bit
The star that burns the brightest burns the shortest.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
because, we WANT the eternal peace that comes with death!
"Take out the trash", "Did you feed the dog", "That ring is too small.", "Marcy told Sue, who told blah", "I bought this new purse today...","I want a big wedding".
Thank goodness for beer, tobacco, and fast cars!
Sig it.
Belief in herbal healing crystals, Indian head massage and aromatherapy really does cure disease?
Eating a ton of chocolate a day is good for you?
Stick Men
These are awesome quotes but are they for real? Do you have the references for them?
-AD
Boo hoo, Life sucks...
He has every right to live his lifestyle and talk about it in an open forum, and if you don't like it then don't read his posts.
-AD
I do agree that this may have been true for the longest time, but what about this age of perfection?
:D
...
More or less every other woman suffers from an eating disorder. Probably even more. I don't think that's attributing to their long lives.
On campus of my school, I tend to see a lot more girls smoking than guys. That's not enough to draw conclusions, but still.
I think there are many women that are much dumber than many men. And there are many men that are much dumber than both. But in the end, I doubt it'll come down to gender but more of the individual habbits.
Naturally, non-smokers tend to live longer. Just as a computer geek would tend to live longer than a drafted soldier in the Israeli army.
But it's not all that bad. Considering how dumb people live shorter lives, this works out very nicely for natural selection.
Wouldn't want it the other way around.
- shazow
Welder/Exotic Dancer/Would-be-Ballarina combinations are even more elusive. And even some of those are male hispanic street performers in drag.
I don't understand the stats in the article. Admittedly I'm probably just being dumb.
How does excluding deaths from preventable causes result in a lower life expectancy?
My (presumably incorrect?) interpretation of this is that people who die of "preventable" diseases do so on average later in life than those who die of "unpreventable" causes.
If it is right, surely we don't have mcuh to worry about - why worry that we are going to die of something preventable if we're likely to die earlier of something unpreventable?
So, after adjusting for all the things that make men die younger, mens life expectancy is the same as womens.
Stay tuned for the "Wealth Adjusted Poverty Index" which adjusts for the fact that poor people have less money than the rich.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
vi is the best.
This is obviously a troll. How can we take anything this person says seriously?
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Dark Helmet: Evil will always win because good is stupid.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
According to statistics from 1997 to 1999, Canadian women have a life expectancy of 81.4 years compared with 75.9 years for men.
But when deaths from preventable causes are excluded, life expectancy for women is 73.5 years, slightly less than the average of 73.9 for men.
As the title says... I guess old age is a preventable cause of death. Why else would the average life expectency go down when preventable causes are excluded from the calc?
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
Why does removing deaths caused by risky behavior drive *down* the life expectancy?
It's a fact that castrated men live longer than women on average. It's not so much men's behavior, it's testosterone that's harmful to their health.
Could the statistics be like this because young males do many more stupid things, thus dragging our average down a lot? Or maybe the military is affecting it. At least it's nice to know that genetics probably isn't the reason that males average less.
Nobody's talking about the article that says that although women live longer, they're less healthy. Apparently their bones degrade and their joints are more prone to failure. They tend to have more weight problems, too. This article acts as if this is a big surprise. Nonsense. Everyone knows women live longer but men age better. It's one of the classic inequities of life.
If women did more drugs, played with guns, and drove fast drunk more often, pretty soon their mortality rates would be right up there!
Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
One might note that men, disproportionately, do dangerous but necessary jobs. Miners, construction workers, police, firefighters, lumberjacks, soldiers, cabbies, truck drivers, refinery workers, and the like are disporportionately male, and those sorts of jobs are disproportionately high in fatalities.
In principle, taking one of these jobs is taking an avoidable risk, yes, but to dismiss it as stupidity is condescending.
Yes, they have rights too, but with those rights come responsibilities.
Stick Men
The actual numbers are 84.9 for women, 82.7 for men after preventable causes are excluded. The reporter screwed up.
Isn't it interesting that when women die or have poor health it's viewed as a societal problem and when men die or have poor health it's viewed as our own damned fault?
Men die because our lives are less valued than women's, and we are brought up to value our lives less. We are surrounded by cultural propoganda dedicated to the proposition that the gruesome death of a young man is, literally, glorious.
Until we value the lives of men as highly as we value the lives of women, men's lives will continue to be shorter and poorer than women's.
The data reported in this study contain many subtle cues as to how men routinely mistreat themselves: for example, men take fewer disability days than women. This is not because men suffer from fewer hurts and harms, but because we are taught from birth that it's more important to sacrifice ourselves than take to care of ourselves. And sacrifice ourselves we do.
--Tom
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
...and you know come from particularly dumb male lineage if you've ever had a male relative die right after announceing
Hey! Y'all! Watch This!!!
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
Why are guys so often the risk takers ? Why is it that so many more males die in car accidents ? A prof at Caltech has an interesting idea that human males have a neuro/genetic predisposition to risky behaviors, and that females are evolutionarily designed to be conservative since they have to stay alive to care for the kiddies. He has studied that in species of primates where MEN take care of the kids, WOMEN tend to take more risks and have a correspondingly shorter life-span. Parenting and survival in anthropoid primates: caretakers live longer.
It's been suggested that since women has a pair of gene X and men only a single X and a single Y.
Damages done over the years to our genes via mutation and radiation exposure eventually takes a tool on male more than female since men don't have the luxury of duplicated the copies.
geek page at KY speaks
Dude, I've seen some knee jerk Liberal reactions here on /. before, but this one take the cake.
"But what about cow catchers on trucks and SUVs. Most of these never leave the city. I have not seen a cow in a road since I was a kid. Is there any reason for these except to inflict maximum damage to a kid who is unfortunate to get in front of one these while the driver is on the phone?"
One word, DEER. There are deer in the cities these days because there's no hunting. There's no hunting because of 10,000 idiots who value the life of sweet little Bambi more than the lives of the people snuffed out when they slam into a 300 pound animal at 70 mph on the freakin' parkway, in a car that's too small because of those same 10,000 idiots and their CAFE regulations. In an SUV with brush bars you'll live, in a Honda you'll die. Geddit?
I don't know who you hang out with, but I don't know a single person who would deliberately stick something on their truck to maximize the damage to any pedestrian they might hit. What the hell are you thinking?!
If your kid needs an immunization, go to the closest county hospital and GET ONE. They are free already. Paid for by that rich guy's tax dollars, which you and the rest of the tax-the-rich crowd have no moral right to incidentally. Its called stealing, and it is economically counterproductive at best.
Illegal immigration is a pox on America that exists only because it is politically convenient for the Democrats. You doubt me, check out who just kicked ass and who's ass got kicked in California and look at their respective platforms. Davis gives driver's licences to illegals, Arnold wants them to go home. Which of those two approaches is more likely to reduce the kind of abuse of immigrant labour you're talking about? Which is honest and which is a crooked manipulation of the voters?
Greenies the world over really are fighting against life-saving measures for the poor, just like those -authentic- quotes suggest. They consider Humanity to be a disease, so anything that kills more humans is forth fighting for. Frankly, that's sick.
Finally, Bush said "Bring it on!" to the Islamofascist scum flooding into Iraq from all directions because that's where the ARMY is. You know, the guys with the tanks, guns and airplanes? The guys who are all set up and gung-ho to SHOOT BACK?
George Bush said that because he, unlike you, is not a fuzzy brained bunny hugger. If the enemy is predisposed to run himself up onto your bayonet, shout encouragement!
Thank God for George Bush, SUVs and Americans with 10 million in the bank. Without them we'd all be royally fucked.
that when many factors are taken into account, such as job description, life risks, what we decide to do for entertainment that some PEOPLE live longer than others.
I eat my grapes at room temperature, cuz the cold ones hurt my teeth
No doubt you are an "angry [White or fill in race here] man" like myself, but I don't like to presume. :) That'd be rude, eh?
I thank you for your kind words of support.
Unfortunately I don't think stupidity covers this kind of lapse in common sense. I think our good friend Fermion is simply playing back the tape of the media crap he's been force fed over the last few years. His problem is that due to to a hijacked education system and intellectual lazyness he can't tell shit from shinola.
What I find scary is his/her/it's capacity to believe that the average brush guard equiped SUV owner would deliberately put child slaying paraphenalia on their vee-hicle. No doubt to supplement the big 'ol shotgun in the back window and the case of beer under the seat.
That's a whole new level of fanaticism I hadn't encountered before. I suppose its good because it means they are getting desperate over on the Left. On the other hand they are starting to identify the enemy as being -me-. That's not good.
Maybe I should buy a new Prius... Nah. I'll put some more big nasty teeth in my child slaying cow catcher. ~:D
Male stereotypes. I don't think this is genetics, rather its purely societal/psychological.
This kind of stuff messes up both genders. Women are pressured into anorexic behaviour, and not making use of the talents they have - or often restrained in their endeavors due to pure sexism, as well as the guys which are coaxed into glorification by providing violent entertainment for the masses - i.e. contact sports and the glorification of reckless driving by the media.
I think we are evolving to see beyond this, even though a lot of conservatives sure whine a lot about it. I know the religious cults sure have a lot to say over how people are supposed to be constrained to social functions by which sex they are, irregardless of what capabilities or psychological bent for fulfillment of happiness an individual has.
A lot of guys seem bred from birth to be aggressive, leading to all sorts of diseases resulting from it, whereas a lot of women seem bred from birth to endure a life of servitude and boredom.
But guess what? We are seeing this for what it is. Now, due to mass communication channels opening up out of control of those who use dominance of religion or whatever to control the populace, we see this behaviour for what it is, and have the choice whether or not to follow it.
Often, not following in the norm can be difficult, as you are seen as contentious and not a team player - and often ostracized - when enough people see it, things change. They always have, they always will.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Young men do "dumb" things because that is what young women want. The study is not clear but I assume that "risky behaviors" are not limited to drugs and such but include many sporting activities. Many young women are attracted to "bad boys", "rugged individuals", "athletic" etc. I get into far more conversations at the local grocery store checkout line when I wear a t-shirt indicating I'm a scuba diver than when I wear a t-shirt indicating I'm a Linux user. What sort of behavior is that rewarding and encouraging? FWIW the store is near a University and has an abnormally high percentage of young women.
..., uh, ... do dumb things. :-)
I'm not suggesting scuba is a risky behavior, insurance companies may believe it is, but it is a safe sport when properly trained and when that training is followed. In other words when divers do not,
Women are what stops most of us from doing the kind of stupid shit that tends to get us killed.
If I didn't have a woman in my life, I'd probably east fast food 6 days per week. I'd probably drink more alcohol. I would still do dumb shit with my friends, like when we used to take 12 gauge shotguns out into the woods and shoot tree stumps.
These few factors alone have increased my life expectancy by at least a decade.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Stop personifying the planet. It does not "waste its resources" on anyone. There is no such thing as mother earth. The earth is a giant rock that settled out of a bunch of dust some 4.5 billion years ago. It does not care if you exist and the only thing, really, that mankind could do to really end the existence of the earth would be either enlarge the sun or smash the moon into it. Neither is going to happen any time soon.
There is no contract with the earth. The earth does not have any agreement with or understanding with humanity. Whether you spray DDT in your backyard and say mother nature is a bitch, or, build a lovely shrine in concert with the inner cycles of kazat, will not change the probability that a meteorite could hit you, that there might be an earth quake, that the crust could fracture or the yellowstone supervolcano might erupt. The earth doesn't care. If you think it does, you might as well take one on the chin and throw a virgin into the volcano. Or, better still, throw yourself in and let some SUV driving slob have the virgin instead!
This is my sig.
Among young Canadians aged 15-9 women now account for 44.5 per cent of new positive HIV tests.
.
Remind me to stay away from Canadian jailbait. .
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
this isn't news. Many species take chances to increase the chance of mating.
So to all those men engaging in risky behavor, I double dare ya.
'cause once you are dead, there'll be more women for me.
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Not only that, but it would be a losing proposition evolutionarily. Women select mates who are gonna do risky stuff, because it means they'll do risky stuff for them. This means they can live longer and care for our offspring better, so there we go.
Oh well. I'm not gonna stop doin' the dumb stuff I love just to live a couple of extra boring years.
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
because old people have accidents.
Women live longer because they're not married to women. Usually, anyway.
According to statistics from 1997 to 1999, Canadian women have a life expectancy of 81.4 years compared with 75.9 years for men. But when deaths from preventable causes are excluded, life expectancy for women is 73.5 years, slightly less than the average of 73.9 for men.
Let me get this straight... eliminating deaths from preventable causes actually decreases the average woman's life expectancy...?? I don't get it.
And in the end, when it is your turn to die, you will. Whether it be by natural causes, accident, murder, whatever. No matter what you do, you will live no longer or shorter than you are suppossed to.
In the US, you're quite correct- there are pockets of unvaccinated children whose parents made the decision not to vaccinate. Often those parents learn too late that the health food store gave them faulty advice, and watching a child in the ICU with whooping cough punishes the child along with the parent. In some states, charges are being filed against parents who refuse to vaccinate, on the grounds that they're presenting a public health risk for those who were also unvaccinated, and for those who were vaccinated but as has happened with measles, need revaccination but find that out the hard way.
just a couple of thoughts; i'm nowhere near expert on these issues, but think that third world countries should be given a little more environmental laxity than countries like the US, where we have the technology to do better. They should have basic guidelines, aid of the echnological and material kind to get them there, and we should (in my view) be cleaning up a lot more a lot faster as an example...
sol
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
Wow, that really is bizarre. What's the story here?
Women have a life expectancy of 81.4 years compared with 75.9 years for men.
But when deaths from preventable causes are excluded, life expectancy for women is 73.5 years, slightly less than the average of 73.9 for men.
You mean, as a man I can live 2 years longer if I try to die from a preventable cause? Seems like the smoker-drinker-fuckers are living longer than everybody else.
As the title says... I guess old age is a preventable cause of death. Why else would the average life expectency go down when preventable causes are excluded from the calc?
[dons flame-resistant gear]
I'm guessing traffic accidents caused by poor driving are to blame (if the statistic is correct).
Preventable: retire licenses of people who are too frail/dissociated to be able to drive properly (ie: react to situations, not back over kids playing at the edge of their driveway or plow through markets).
I'm sorry, but not everyone remains sharp into old age. I have a lucid 80+ year old grandmother who is perfectly capable of navigating on her own, and did so for the last 7 years of my grandfather's life when he became too encumbered by Parkinson's. My wife's grandmother is younger, but I'm terrified for my life when I'm in the car with her driving. When someone becomes mentally or physically incapable of handling real world driving - they shouldn't be on the road.
but how many female welders or construction workers (ones who do the construction) do you know?
s /
Or for that matter for any of the most dangerous jobs !
1) Timber Cutters
2) Fisheries
3) Pilots & Navigators
4) Structural Metal Workers
5) Driving Sales
6) Roofers
7) Electrical Power installers
8) Farming
9) Construction
10) Truck drivers
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/13/pf/dangerousjob
I'm all for saving the environment, but not at the cost of someone's life.
Do you really believer your pitiful little life is more important than the survival of our ecosystem and our entire species ?
If so I'm staggered by your narcissism.
So let me get this straight: according to the article, women live on average about 81 years, men about 76 years. But when you exclude "preventable" deaths such as smoking, accidents etc, you find that men and women live about 74 years.
So basically, if I smoke, drink, drive fast cars and sleep around I'll probably live to 76 (or 81 if I was a woman). If I live a careful life and die of "unpreventable" causes, I'll only make it to 74. Either that's the best news I've ever heard, or there's something seriously kooky with the research (or more probably the way it's been reported)...
The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
"End of the World Tomorrow! Women and minorities hardest hit"
I'll agree with you and go you a bit farther...
You should be required to take your driver's test every 5 years. Fail the test, be forced to take 5 hours of remedial class and come back before 30 days are up.
Testing should probably include some objective measures of physical/cognitive ability. Reaction time, eyesight, hearing.
Post age 70, testing should probably be done every 2-3 years.
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
i got nothin'; i think if it were more on the front burner for people in THIS country, those preventable diseases vcould be better prevented. i think if we just insisted on better use of the resources that we already provide... but i don't have a ready answer how to make it all better...
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
Lady Astor: "Sir, if you were my husband, I'd flavour your coffee with poison."
Winston Churchill: "Madame, if you were my wife-- I'd drink it!"
Fuckhead?! My, how tolerant of you my dear. Just what I've come to expect from our friends in the Environmental community. When faced with an alternative opinion, default to profane mode.
I will agree with you in one regard, small energy efficient cars do have their place. That place is under the bumper of my truck. Who needs a cow catcher when you've got a 6" lift kit in your 4x4?
So you'll pardon me I hope if I don't risk my ignorant beer drinking ass in a tiny hurtling shoebox on wheels just so the gentle antelope can enjoy clear spring water and fresh air 200 years from now.
By the way, have you noticed that with all these deadly death vehicles on the road killing and maiming and spewing noxious gases, the air and water just keep getting cleaner?