Posted by
Hemos
on from the striking-deals-abroad dept.
nfras writes "News Ltd is carrying a story about how Australia's largest (and government owned) telco has done a deal with Warner Music to sell music online. It will use Windows Media format and will be similar in pricing to US sites."
Waltzing Matilda
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5, Funny
The bad news, they are only offering versions of "Waltzing Matilda", Mad Max theme songs, and "Beds are Burning" by the Midnight Oils. "Men at Work" are still holding out on the contract.
We've been told we're not allowed to officially sing Waltzing Matilda during the current Rugby World Cup (on here in Australia at the moment) as it's not our official anthem. So we will sing it twice as loud in protest!
Oh you devil you!
Why would I pay AUD $2.00 for a.wma format from bigpond when I can get a... Okay, I have to pay for the bandwidth because it's not free if I go outside bigpond...
Why would you use Bigpond when there are real ISP's out there, that will give you 16GB of international traffic for around the same price as Bigponds 1GB plan?
[...] with the cost added to users' internet service bill [...]
There's a lesson to be learned here: large ISPs offering their "own" services can handle micropayments easily. And it's a lot safer than using credit cards.
AOL was doing that in 1994. Same with Prodigy etc.
-- I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Very Good
by
cubicledrone
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
These are all good announcements because it means there will be more competition, lower prices and higher quality. The music will get better too as more bands start distributing electronically.
Oh, and Apple has now sold TEN million songs from iTunes.
-- Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
more competition, lower prices and higher quality.
If Tel$tra has anything to do with it, we will see less competition, rediculously high prices, and the music will end up sounding like that disabled guy bashing the piano while you're on call waiting.
After all, the ACCC accuses Tel$tra repeatedly of doing a crappy job and maintaining its monopoly using unfair trading practices, such as selling wholesale ADSL access to third parties for more than it retails to its own private customers. Tel$tra is the M$ of the telecoms industry (if we have such an industry in AU).
Oh but Senator Alston would thoroughly disagree with me on all of these points. And when his govt sells off the remaining 51% they own (which will be less than a year from now), it won't even be his problem anymore, he's retiring. After doing such a brilliant job for telecoms and IT, says Howard.
The whole concept that competition will lead to better results for the consumer relies on the competition being unrestricted and the consumer being informed, none of which tends to happen in Australia.
Comfort and customer service
by
Compact+Dick
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· Score: 2, Insightful
The levels of copyright protection afforded by the service were "at a level where we are very comfortable with it," he said.
Sure, he is comfortable. But what about the consumer?
Of course this has to happen just after I have left bigpond for a cheaper ISP
-- It said "windows 98 or better" so I installed Linux
The news site has been /.ed
by
The+One+KEA
·
· Score: 1
Does anyone know when the Googlecache will appear?
As for the music site itself, I suspect it will last until pressure from U.S. companies forces it to either start raising prices or using DRM. I would be surprised if it managed to take off like iTunes.
-- SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/
Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
Tracks will be available in the Microsoft-developed.wma format. The levels of copyright protection afforded by the service were "at a level where we are very comfortable with it," he said.
I just can't understand the insistance of so many online music retailers to go with WMA instead of a more popular and widespread format like MP3. It can't be because of a fear of pirating -- this isn't going to help keep new (downloadable) music from Kazaa and the like because there are still too many simple ways to circumvent it, starting with looping your analog output back into your line input, and all it takes is a few people to realize this before the music gets out "into the wild".
In the meantime, it's just one more annoyance for their paying customers. Old mp3 players tend not to support WMA, and there's also the distastefulness of your music being tied to a Microsoft proprietary format, which have a tendency to have backward-compatibility issues (ever try migrating Office documents between versions?) and to be changed without much customer input. Given these issues, I don't think their security would suffer much by going with mp3, and it would be a good selling point for their legit customers. All in all, I see this as an annoying trend towards a business model where companies continue to try to impose their controls on things you've already paid for, rather than just letting you have full use of your purchases after you've forked over your cash.
-- The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away...
"It can't be because of a fear of pirating -- this isn't going to help keep new (downloadable) music from Kazaa and the like because there are still too many simple ways to circumvent it, starting with looping your analog output back into your line input"
Yes, but it's still an extra hassle. If a user has to go through all that trouble just to share their music on Kazaa, they're less likely to bother. At the very least, the music isn't going to get auto-shared when the user first installs Kazaa and gives it permission to scan their system for mp3s.
Also, P2P works the best when lots of people have identical copies of a given file. By forcing people to reencode the song to make it shareable, they're reducing the efficiency of getting the song via Kazaa.
I just can't understand the insistance of so many online music retailers to go with WMA instead of a more popular and widespread format like MP3. It can't be because of a fear of pirating....
Of course it's the fear of pirating!
This is for sale in Australia. If an Australian pirates music and you convict him, where could you send him?!
"When I buy music I want CD quality at least (unless prices are smaller by the same factor as the file size)."
I'd never pay money, now, for any lossy-format. With a lossless format, I can re-encode to the next new and improved lossy format myself, with a lossy format, it's going to mean re-purchasing the music in the new lossy format, for decent sound quality.
-- Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
If anything, a slight reduction in the ease with which AOLers can share the songs increases efficiency. Now, instead of 50 rips from clueless users, there'll be 5 rips from smart ones. The internet is big enough that even if it does require analog loopback, somebody will put it up. Besides, Ogg streams have serial numbers. So by changing the serial number for each download (rudimentary watermarking), they'd also be able to reduce P2P efficiency.
To the grandparent, the biggest reason for WMA is limitation of fair use. They want to sell you a CD, and two WMAs (at different bitrates), and a SD card, and so on. Meanwhile, Microsoft is pushing WMA so it can win the format wars.
"Yes, but it's still an extra hassle. If a user has to go through all that trouble just to share their music on Kazaa, they're less likely to bother."
Yeah, and if there's the extra hassle of not being able to use the downloaded music the way they want to, they are less likely to bother signing up for the service.
I do wish people would stop opening these sites and saying that only people from one particular country are allowed to use them. What happened to the Internet being an International resource?
What happened to the Internet being an International resource?
It got popular. Popular things get attention from businesses and the government. It was inevitable that the slippery slope of nationalism would invade the Internet like it has in the real world. It's sad really.
I do wish people would stop opening these sites and saying that only people from one particular country are allowed to use them.
That's all well and good, but there's the matter of dealing with legal issues for every country you support, financial issues such as currency, and (if you ship a physical product) customs, shipping contracts to different parts of the world, etc. Not to mention that they probably only got the deal with Warner for use in Australia.
-- "Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
-- Ryan Stiles
"Similar in pricing to..."
by
91degrees
·
· Score: 2, Funny
We get that in Europe too. It means "More expensive than..."
Yes, you've heard this before
by
orthogonal
·
· Score: 3, Interesting
Not to beat a dead horse, but the proprietary windows format doesn't play on my portable MP3 player. And it ties me to Windows in a way I don't want to be tied. (Speaking of dead horses, Slashdot's been moving about as fast as one for the last week.)
But this you probably haven't heard before, from the linked article:
Telstra says BigPond Music will become Australia's largest music download site. Single tracks and albums will be available for download in early December, and will not count towards broadband download caps.
Yes, it probably will become Australia's largest (legal) download site, because Telestra BigPond will be both music vendor and ISP. In a triumph of vertical integration, users will continue to have download limits for Telestra's competitors, but will be able to "avoid" extra charges (which I'm sure will be built into the price of the music) for Telestra's own music site.
Now I know that download limits, and extra charges to go beyond those limits are pretty much unavoidable in Oz, but it strikes me as anti-competitve to lift those lmits for the ISPs favored affiliates.
And I worry that if this is succesful in Oz, we'll begin to see it elsewhere: high speed big pipes, for example, connecting AOL's users to Time Warner's offerings, and -- what an unfortunate coincidence! -- crappy connections outside the AOL-Time Warner group of companies. Or, no download limits between, perhsps, Verizon and eBay, but don't expect the same quality of connection, to, oh, Slashdot.
Of course, this will all be put over as "special benefits to our customers", providing "expeditetd access to the most requested web sites", but it's a short step from "special relationship" to the ISP turning its customers into another commodity to be rented -- "we have 10 million eyes with 5 million credit cards" to the highest bidding affiliate.
Re:Yes, you've heard this before
by
BrokenHalo
·
· Score: 1
and will not count towards broadband download caps.
That's the only way they can sell it, given Telstra's ridiculously low bandwidth limits. A number of Australian providers are reselling exactly the same service (on the same lines) at cheaper rates, with vastly higher download limits.
They Already Had A Legal One
by
perimorph
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· Score: 2, Interesting
They already had legal ways to get music online.
One of them is called "Independent musicians who want you to download their music from websites".
And another is called P2P networks, which the recording industry didn't manage to get shut down, and despite all the noise they make, still haven't managed to show as being illegal in a court of law.
Only for Bigpond customers?
by
mmmjoy
·
· Score: 1
It sounds like our favorite telco monopoly is trying to diversify, or maybe just squash more smaller isps of of the market.
where everyone else whos not in the US or with telstra cannot reach this "new, wonderful, legal and fair" way of buying music... pity, I'll have to stay with kazaa
Telstra don't know what they're doing
by
Amiga+Lover
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· Score: 1
Downloads of music DVDs may also eventually be offered as the level of broadband penetration increases, he said. "There's no reason why that wouldn't translate online as well"
Telstra are doing everything they can to SLOW broadband takeup in australia, yet they're basing business decisions on selling a product that REQUIRES it?
They're still clueless.
It might only cost the same for the song...
by
Realistic_Dragon
·
· Score: 1
It might only cost the same for the song as the US, but by the time you have paid the extortionate Aus bandwidth rate it would be cheaper to buy the CD:o(
-- Beep beep.
Re:It might only cost the same for the song...
by
BugZRevengE
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· Score: 1
Artical says that d/l would not contribute to broadband limits (as long as you are with Tel$tra BigPONG - then again unless you are with telstra you could not use the service, as they cannot bill you though your BigPONG account!) just another monopoly wiping out the little guy
The Internet may be an International Resource, but copyright varies wildly from country to country, and the copyrights and distribution rights for music, in particular, tend to be owned by completely different entities depending on which country you're in.
I just can't understand the insistance of so many online music retailers to go with WMA instead of a more popular and widespread format like MP3.
Because the DRM is what the music industry wants, not what the music store wants. If they could sell you unlicensed MP3s, they probably would. But the copyright holders want control over the files THEY offer the music stores, so some DRM is implanted to give it. It's not flawless, but it's better than nothing.
Blab those stereotypes in an .AU bar...
by
inteller
·
· Score: 1
Think about it. One of the major benefits accrued from use of the internet is the ability to take music distribution out of the hands of large corporations.
With cost of production and distribution relatively minimal as they now are, there is little justification for parasitical companies being able to take a free ride on artists' talent.
I find it hard to believe that Telstra's involvement is going to improve anything. It is far more likely to promote the lowest common denominator.
It'll be interesting to see what kind of restrictions are on the files.
Australian copyright law is fairly draconian compared to the US, and doesn't allow "backup" copies of music, videos etc, only some software.
If they provide an iTunes-esque scheme that allows the tracks to be burned to CD and played across multiple computers, consumers will actually have more legal rights with their downloaded tracks than they do with real CDs.
I think t
e problem is that all these deals are the big multinational labels holding the reins on the distribution of the future. The vibrant underground scene gets a tiny look in but the real money goes to the usual suspects...
Not sure what the alternative is except maybe some way of networking all the little labels up using the internet. At least that way they can get a presence and make enough money to continue to survive...
When are online music companies going to figure out the people are not interested in using the Windows Media Format for their music? Does anyone out in Slashdot land use anything besides MP3 and OGG?
actually the exchange rate is about 70% on the US dollar right now, so $2.00 AUD is $1.38 USD. This is a pretty big difference from the old 2:1 ratio. I just returned from Oz after being there a year and my USD cash burn rate was increasing significantly this year to the point where it was costing me more to live in Australia than it was in Portland, Oregon.
A manufacturing plant has opened in Australia making and selling cars that only turn left.
The MVAA (Motor Vehicle Association of Australia) praised the move, saying that once they can stomp out fully fuctional cars then consumers will have no choice but to buy the crippled crap we'd rather sell them.
-
-- - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
HMV, which I realise is an international, has teamed up with Wired Records to give Aussies a digital music download service, that certainly doesn't look all that "new". Wired Records is based in Australia as well, which I think is great for the local business.
It's good to see something finally happening in Australia only soon after it takes off overseas (rather than a several year wait, a-la cable internet).
>That's $2 Australian, which is about $1 US, i.e. it's about the same price.
Here's where I disagree. If you think purely in terms of percentages of wages, $2 Australian is closer to $2 US than it is to $1.
In poorer countries whose populace earn far less per hour than us, it makes sense to use the exchange rate to calculate prices. But between Australia and the US the exchange rate seems to mean very little. Parties in both countries might earn $40000 per year, yet we pay nearly twice as much for goods. Weird!
I can't believe they chose WMA... what a bad move. There's no way I'd pay to own a WMA file. I would really would like to know what the rationale was behind this decision. I'm sure lots of $$$ of incentives form a certain software company was involved.
The world's richest man has taken a swipe at the speed of broadband Internet network roll-out in Australia, suggesting that Australians are paying far too much for access on that cable that was put in by Telstra and Optus.
Downloads of commercial music for a fee with specific licensing and DRM restrictions is just a subset of legal music downloads. Last I checked, the Open Music Registry (and Narcopop, and Common Content) were all "legal music sites" that Aussies can use just like anyone else in the world.
Don't buy into and/or support the notion that commercialized music is the only music available. When you see this sort of nonsense in the media, at least take time to write to the publisher to comment on it. I have.
Unless telstra have also struck a deal with Micrsoft, why on earth would they use wma? I mean, theres far more support on just about every OS for mp3... I thought if you had a product, you'd want as many people to be able to use it.
I know people that perfer wma, and i have no doubt that its good, but the OS support for mp3 overwhealms wma doesnt it? Seems a little silly. I wont by wma, but if it was mp3, i would have thought about it. My entire collection is mp3, and i have no intention of converting.
--
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Slashdot Mirror
The bad news, they are only offering versions of "Waltzing Matilda", Mad Max theme songs, and "Beds are Burning" by the Midnight Oils. "Men at Work" are still holding out on the contract.
[...] with the cost added to users' internet service bill [...]
There's a lesson to be learned here: large ISPs offering their "own" services can handle micropayments easily. And it's a lot safer than using credit cards.
These are all good announcements because it means there will be more competition, lower prices and higher quality. The music will get better too as more bands start distributing electronically.
Oh, and Apple has now sold TEN million songs from iTunes.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
No thanks, I'll pass. WMA format and all.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Of course this has to happen just after I have left bigpond for a cheaper ISP
It said "windows 98 or better" so I installed Linux
Does anyone know when the Googlecache will appear?
As for the music site itself, I suspect it will last until pressure from U.S. companies forces it to either start raising prices or using DRM. I would be surprised if it managed to take off like iTunes.
SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
In the meantime, it's just one more annoyance for their paying customers. Old mp3 players tend not to support WMA, and there's also the distastefulness of your music being tied to a Microsoft proprietary format, which have a tendency to have backward-compatibility issues (ever try migrating Office documents between versions?) and to be changed without much customer input. Given these issues, I don't think their security would suffer much by going with mp3, and it would be a good selling point for their legit customers. All in all, I see this as an annoying trend towards a business model where companies continue to try to impose their controls on things you've already paid for, rather than just letting you have full use of your purchases after you've forked over your cash.
The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away
I do wish people would stop opening these sites and saying that only people from one particular country are allowed to use them. What happened to the Internet being an International resource?
Follow me
We get that in Europe too. It means "More expensive than..."
But this you probably haven't heard before, from the linked article:
Yes, it probably will become Australia's largest (legal) download site, because Telestra BigPond will be both music vendor and ISP. In a triumph of vertical integration, users will continue to have download limits for Telestra's competitors, but will be able to "avoid" extra charges (which I'm sure will be built into the price of the music) for Telestra's own music site.
Now I know that download limits, and extra charges to go beyond those limits are pretty much unavoidable in Oz, but it strikes me as anti-competitve to lift those lmits for the ISPs favored affiliates.
And I worry that if this is succesful in Oz, we'll begin to see it elsewhere: high speed big pipes, for example, connecting AOL's users to Time Warner's offerings, and -- what an unfortunate coincidence! -- crappy connections outside the AOL-Time Warner group of companies. Or, no download limits between, perhsps, Verizon and eBay, but don't expect the same quality of connection, to, oh, Slashdot.
Of course, this will all be put over as "special benefits to our customers", providing "expeditetd access to the most requested web sites", but it's a short step from "special relationship" to the ISP turning its customers into another commodity to be rented -- "we have 10 million eyes with 5 million credit cards" to the highest bidding affiliate.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
They already had legal ways to get music online.
One of them is called "Independent musicians who want you to download their music from websites".
And another is called P2P networks, which the recording industry didn't manage to get shut down, and despite all the noise they make, still haven't managed to show as being illegal in a court of law.
It sounds like our favorite telco monopoly is trying to diversify, or maybe just squash more smaller isps of of the market.
where everyone else whos not in the US or with telstra cannot reach this "new, wonderful, legal and fair" way of buying music... pity, I'll have to stay with kazaa
Downloads of music DVDs may also eventually be offered as the level of broadband penetration increases, he said. "There's no reason why that wouldn't translate online as well"
Telstra are doing everything they can to SLOW broadband takeup in australia, yet they're basing business decisions on selling a product that REQUIRES it?
They're still clueless.
It might only cost the same for the song as the US, but by the time you have paid the extortionate Aus bandwidth rate it would be cheaper to buy the CD :o(
Beep beep.
What this ignores is that the cost of living is much lower in Australia, so AUD$1 in Australia feels like USD$1 in the US.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
They're not selling, they're renting. See Microsoft's example of Subscription Models for why.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Its only 51% government owned, soon to be sold off.
The Internet may be an International Resource, but copyright varies wildly from country to country, and the copyrights and distribution rights for music, in particular, tend to be owned by completely different entities depending on which country you're in.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I just can't understand the insistance of so many online music retailers to go with WMA instead of a more popular and widespread format like MP3.
Because the DRM is what the music industry wants, not what the music store wants. If they could sell you unlicensed MP3s, they probably would. But the copyright holders want control over the files THEY offer the music stores, so some DRM is implanted to give it. It's not flawless, but it's better than nothing.
and see how far you get.
With cost of production and distribution relatively minimal as they now are, there is little justification for parasitical companies being able to take a free ride on artists' talent.
I find it hard to believe that Telstra's involvement is going to improve anything. It is far more likely to promote the lowest common denominator.
There aren't too many recordings around that are much better than CD. Sure, there is Burr-Brown, but I wouldn't say that was common.
Correct me if I'm wrong and hopelessly out of date (please)...
It'll be interesting to see what kind of restrictions are on the files.
Australian copyright law is fairly draconian compared to the US, and doesn't allow "backup" copies of music, videos etc, only some software.
If they provide an iTunes-esque scheme that allows the tracks to be burned to CD and played across multiple computers, consumers will actually have more legal rights with their downloaded tracks than they do with real CDs.
Not sure what the alternative is except maybe some way of networking all the little labels up using the internet. At least that way they can get a presence and make enough money to continue to survive...
---- The Open Source Record Label : : LOCARECORDS.COM
Only 51% of it belongs to the Commonwealth, the rest of it is listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. Well for the time being anyway...
-- "I can't tell the future, I just work there." -- The Doctor
When are online music companies going to figure out the people are not interested in using the Windows Media Format for their music? Does anyone out in Slashdot land use anything besides MP3 and OGG?
actually the exchange rate is about 70% on the US dollar right now, so $2.00 AUD is $1.38 USD. This is a pretty big difference from the old 2:1 ratio. I just returned from Oz after being there a year and my USD cash burn rate was increasing significantly this year to the point where it was costing me more to live in Australia than it was in Portland, Oregon.
A website dedicated *exclusively* to the service of converting media from X to X.
I will never. Ever. Use WMA for music.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
What's Austrailia?
A manufacturing plant has opened in Australia making and selling cars that only turn left.
The MVAA (Motor Vehicle Association of Australia) praised the move, saying that once they can stomp out fully fuctional cars then consumers will have no choice but to buy the crippled crap we'd rather sell them.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
It is.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
HMV, which I realise is an international, has teamed up with Wired Records to give Aussies a digital music download service, that certainly doesn't look all that "new". Wired Records is based in Australia as well, which I think is great for the local business.
It's good to see something finally happening in Australia only soon after it takes off overseas (rather than a several year wait, a-la cable internet).
>That's $2 Australian, which is about $1 US, i.e. it's about the same price.
Here's where I disagree. If you think purely in terms of percentages of wages, $2 Australian is closer to $2 US than it is to $1.
In poorer countries whose populace earn far less per hour than us, it makes sense to use the exchange rate to calculate prices. But between Australia and the US the exchange rate seems to mean very little. Parties in both countries might earn $40000 per year, yet we pay nearly twice as much for goods. Weird!
I can't believe they chose WMA... what a bad move. There's no way I'd pay to own a WMA file. I would really would like to know what the rationale was behind this decision. I'm sure lots of $$$ of incentives form a certain software company was involved.
September 2000...
The world's richest man has taken a swipe at the speed of broadband Internet network roll-out in Australia, suggesting that Australians are paying far too much for access on that cable that was put in by Telstra and Optus.
Bill Gates raised subtle questions over the power Telstra has had over cable and broadband technologies in Australia.
Get the Hell off my planet, you slimy mobster Bush!
Downloads of commercial music for a fee with specific licensing and DRM restrictions is just a subset of legal music downloads. Last I checked, the Open Music Registry (and Narcopop, and Common Content) were all "legal music sites" that Aussies can use just like anyone else in the world.
Don't buy into and/or support the notion that commercialized music is the only music available. When you see this sort of nonsense in the media, at least take time to write to the publisher to comment on it. I have.
No Laughing Allowed!
Unless telstra have also struck a deal with Micrsoft, why on earth would they use wma? I mean, theres far more support on just about every OS for mp3... I thought if you had a product, you'd want as many people to be able to use it.
I know people that perfer wma, and i have no doubt that its good, but the OS support for mp3 overwhealms wma doesnt it? Seems a little silly. I wont by wma, but if it was mp3, i would have thought about it. My entire collection is mp3, and i have no intention of converting.
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/