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A Novell Linux Specialist?
richardeholder asks: "Our Novell partners differentiate themselves in the marketplace by promoting their areas of expertise or specializations; this allows their
customers to know what their skill sets are and what they can reasonably expect these partners to provide for them.
As we embrace Linux, we would like to extend the title of 'Linux specialist' to partners who merit it. Before we move forward on this initiative, we would like to ask the Linux community for guidance on what should constitute a Linux specialist. Should we require certifications such as LPI and the RHCE/RHCT, or are there other more valuable ways of demonstrating Linux competency?"
An individual or company can be considered a linux specialist if they demonstrate the ability to:
-Properly secure a firewall
-Compile and install a kernel
-Configure the third button on thier mouse
-Print to a Panasonic KXP-8410 printer in color
-Make coffee that is restricted under OSHA guidelines
-Recognize a minimum 8 of 10 random network cards by thier chipset number only
-Understand the usefullness of the SysRq button
-Install linux on any appliance that does not come with a keyboard or mouse
-Setup a cron job to order pizza online
-Pay a license fee to SCO
-Assemble a beowolf cluster which includes more than one type of gaming console
-Install a really cool kde/gnome/enlightenment theme
-Run desktops at no less than 1600x1200 resolution, native
-Name all boxen after sci-fi characters/objects
-Any cats owned must be named after cabling specifications
-Adequate space must be reserved in all hardware racks for pizza boxes
-Every system must glow at night. Server rooms should be scary
That should just about cover it. Congratulations! You may now call yourself a linux specialist!
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
slackware 3.0 (the one with "stable internet", a PIV 2.4 Ghz and tell him to get it up and running with just the disks, the hard and the net connection.
If you are not too bad with your proxies rules, about 1 in 10 000 will do it 8p
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
It makes me want to re-embrace Novell just knowing that they are doing things *right* (like talking to the community on Slashdot).
I think I left off at 3.12. Hey did anyone ever keep a copy of that NCSnipes game?
Go for the Novell Certified Linux Engineer certification.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
How 'bout these:
What's your Karma?
How often do you post to Slashdot?
How many stories have you successfully submitted to Slashdot?
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Ask them to spell Microsoft.
If they use a dollar symbol somwhere in the spelling - then the're a Linux expert.
If they spell it Micro-Soft - then ther're really old school DOS expert.
If they spell it MICROS~1 -then there a Windows expert.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
there's the obvious one -- how many anti-microsoft comments you can get onto slashdot during one day.
but, all kidding aside, what's the scope of the specialty?
o firewalls
o security
o script writing
or are we talking end-user support?
o kde
o gnome
o X configuration
there would also be the need for familiarization with common opensource apps, such as openoffice, gnumeric, kword, etc.
what exactly are we talking about?
If the individual can get a Delta 44 sound card installed, they get my vote.
I was tempted to mod you down, like all the AC's who post "so-and-so died" hoaxes... But I checked, and sure enough, it's true. Hope it's not Firestone's fault.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
If they can install and configure a Linux server from scratch, they will almost certainly be capable of continuing to administer it.
If he can install my Geforce 2 mx in 3d Mode, he gets extra pizza points ...
More then just knowing how to use and install linux. They sould be fimilar with open source and gnu. also they sould know the basic history of linux, where and when it started, how it started out open and free as oposed to microsofts we own it you rent it concept of software licencing.
+-+-+-The folowing statement is true. The previous statement is false.-+-+-+
A true linux specialist would have his name referenced in the source code that comes with any distribution, or have @debian.org in one of his/her many email addresses!! :)
Our Novell partners differentiate themselves in the marketplace by promoting their areas of expertise or specializations; this allows their customers to know what their skill sets are and what they can reasonably expect these partners to provide for them. As we embrace Linux, we would like to extend the title of 'Linux specialist' to partners who merit it. Before we move forward on this initiative, we would like to ask the Linux community for guidance on what should constitute a Linux specialist. Should we require certifications such as LPI and the RHCE/RHCT, or are there other more valuable ways of demonstrating Linux competency?
These words are the words of a suit! But that's all right, all are welcome on slashdot. Well except the RIAA and microsoft, but that's besides the point.
Basically, you need to come up with your own certification. All certifications are pretty meaningless to the non-suits, but I think your partners would have a better understanding of "skill sets" if you defined your own set of Novell Linux Specialist credentials, and then either came up with your own tests and so forth or use these credentials to certify other certifications.
to prove that they haven't had contact with an M$ system in the past 12 months.
That and the GNU Oath of Allegiance..
That would pretty much cover it.
Not to sound like a jerk, but a lot of race car drivers die. Certianly nothing Novell about that...
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Your consultants should get the RTFM certification. As in, they are proficient in telling people to RTFM on chat rooms and email lists. That's the sign of a true linux expert.
Fat? Check.
GNU/Linux? Check.
Steals music online? Check.
Smells? Check.
Patents are evil? Check.
Fat? Check.
Lack of social skills? Check.
Smells? Check.
Congratulations, you are a Linux expert.
Thanks!
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Can they demonstrate three different ways of accessing the web, only one of which may be a web browser?
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
Why? Novell is butt-fluff.
Only one small part of it.
In the business climate, you should only be considered a "Linux specialist" if you have designed, deployed, maintained, or extended production Linux platforms in real life.
Additionally, there should be some track record, say over two years, of professional or technical services delivery either in Linux or another Operating Platform, UNIX, not Windows or Novell.
Finally and most importantly, should be able to provide at least two business references resulting from completed or ongoing projects.
All this would be Real [TM] as opposed to say, the Microsoft "Partner" thing where you need 2 MCPs on staff, a fee, and, uh, that's all.
To my mind, the successful business reference is the best certification anyone can have.
Can they successfully install debian on the first try?
They should be able to pronounce "Linux" properly as well as its originator's name.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
Runs linux at home on all their personal computers. And allows friends and family with Windows and/or Mac to plug in and party flawlessly.
Ummm no offence... but who gives a fuck about American racing, let alone American racing drivers?
Dipshit.
Perhaps you'd like to furnish the folks here with the error messages, maybe someone will be able to pin-point your hardware problem.
Network security - ALL protocols (esp. TCP/IP)
Network Architecture
Platform Integration - including (yuk!) Windows
I don't want to be a TROLL, but it's working out that way. I need people who can put together a NETWORK - NOT be a vendor specific cooky cutter LAN. The more you know about everything (networking) the more it helps to justify hiring you.
I know, it's a CATCH 22 deal these days -(I used to be a coder - and I got sick of it.) There's a lot of us ex-techies who are now PHBs because we couldn't take ( or didn't want to deal with) the current climate in the IT industry and we know TRUE skills when we see them.
I don't even know if this is even on topic based on the article...
WTF?There is no spoon or sig.
Do this ten times and then ask yourself the same question...
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
If you really did this all by hand and got a nice working bare system you really know what drives a GNU/Linux machine.
Umm, not that a dead guy isn't tragic, but for krist sakes, hundreds of thousands of people die every day, and one more marginal "celebrity" does not for a tragedy make. Get some fricken perspective!
>> You can have an MCSE certificate and be
>> totally incompetent, why should there be
>> different rules for Linux?
If you've ever taken the RHCE you'll know that no braindump is gonna make you a hands on expert when you get asked to configure X amount of systems exactly as specified with tools provided in a limited time. RHCE is quite challenging.
RedHat is moving away from the RHCE and towards a certification that targets their enterprise linux product. As a result of this transition it is my opinion that LPI will remain the most highly respected vendor-neutral examination. The test has excellent coverage, I've taken it.
-Max Prophet
one, it is nice to see novell embrace linux, provide a groupwise interface, and make linux desktop, through ximian, an option. great job. but funny thing is that at my school district, which uses netware, i've been playing nicely with novell for some time.
i had got my linux box at school (couldn't stand those damn win98 POS they give us) up and running, and used ncpmount to mount my novell share, and got our attendance and grade programs (SASI) to run through wine. now, one day our district technidiot comes into my classroom, going through his usual hardware inventory, etc., and he notices the district computer collecting dust in the corner (hell, it was a P200 i think). so, he takes a peek, and notices that i am running SASI on this weird desktop. he can't figure out how i can get linux to work with the network, how i could run sasi, how i could connect to the internet. poor fella.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I would say go for the RHCE. That would at least give it more credence and acceptance.
If I were grilling someone for a "senior Linux expert" position, my interview would probably include the following:
- Describe the scheduling algorithm the Linux kernel presently uses.
- Describe the differences between NFS, CIFS, AFS, Coda, Intermezzo -- and how you'd pick the appropriate one for a given environment.
- Answer a pop quiz about the kernel itself (How is the input core designed? Which filesystems have no limit on the number of inodes? How does the preemptive scheduling algorithm work? Under what circumstances is it undesirable? What's the first thing you do if you get an OOPS?)
- Be familiar with the system's boot process and how to resolve problems relating to it. (What search order does the kernel use when searching for an "init" process?)
- Be able to build an initrd to preload I/O drivers (ie. for booting off a firewire drive)
- Have a solid understanding of the linker, the environment variables and search paths it uses, etc.
- Be able to track down simple bugs in kernel drivers (implications: the candidate must be fluent in C, have some familiarity with the kernel's source base, and know how to use tools such as ksymoops and possibly one of the available kernel debuggers)
Of course I'd also be looking for fluency in at least a few scripting languages (and LDAP queries), an understanding of the tools and libraries underlying GNOME (which we use here) [so I'd want someone understanding GConf, Bonobo, and the like], and so forth. Personally, I'd probably include a series of questions about revision control tools as well, and I'd look for at least a passing fluency with SQL (as a great many popular services backend into SQL databases, it's become rather necessary as a sysadmin skill as well as something important to developers and DB specialists).
Now, are all these skills going to be needed on a regular basis in someone who's just (say) in a sysadmin role? Of course not. On the other hand, the advantage of having someone who understands how things work under the hood is that when they *do* get something really weird jumping out at them, they'll be able to understand what the problem is and *get it fixed*.
Personally, though, I'm not sure what value I see in the whole certification thing. Someone with the kind of skill range I mentioned above typically won't *need* a piece of paper to demonstrate what they know -- it'll be visible in the code they release, in their posts to public mailing lists (Google is your friend!), and in their survival of an actual, proper, face-to-face grilling.
Evaluate the existing certification programs: LPI and RHCE, any others out there. Look at their methodologies and tests, interview certified engineers, see what you think.
If in your opinion they're certifying wankers instead of quality engineers, you'll need to do your own certification program. The CNE was a pretty decent program IIRC.
IMHO you'll find that LPI and RHCE are pretty good programs and are probably good enough to run with or to build your own program around.
On a side note, I certainly hope Novell can make a comeback.
"Nothing was broken, and it's been fixed." -- Jon Carroll
There are two kinds of non-certified techs: those who are too incompetent to pass a certification, and those who are too busy actually getting things accomplished to bother with piffle like that. The certified ones tend to be the rest: the mediocre.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
I hate to throw in a serious reply to these very funny responses. However, I would rather see partners be required to send employees to training rather than achieving certification. If your going to require a Linux competency then require that your partners send X number of employees per year to training on the Linux operating system. Certification can then be optional. At least if they are sending their people to training you might be reasonably assured that the staff working on the product is always attempting to further their skills.
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
Additionally, without being a DB programmer a linux specialist should understand that the above is just a fancy way to say 'positive'
As one who did v2.11 installs/administration back in the late 80's, I would like SNIPES certification for all new novell certified persons. Think of the bored admins. Put the fun back into network management :)
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
That no supplier company will do anything about it.... CERTIFICATIONS MEAN NOTHING MORE THAN THOSE WITH THEM CAN PASS TESTS WELL! That being said, the most meaningful exam sets ever given in the *NIX community were the Sun Interactive exams, where you were told to do things, then had to do them in a simulated environment (a virtual OS really). How you got there didn't matter, just that it worked. Dunno where that code ended up, it was from SunSoft when that was a division that had their own training seperate from the "Zander" organized training centers. The other meaningful test set was.. errr.. uhhh... The ORIGINAL SCO test suites (before Caldera, before Canopy, the orignal SCO). they were designed to be open material, open book, tested your ability to find answers you didn't know. It was actually a pretty accurate indicator of someone who could get the job done. But then again, noone ever listened to me about this stuff....
The Linux Professional Institute (LPI) serves the community of Linux and open source software users vendors and developers, in the interest of increasing and supporting professional use of such software throughout world. LPI will seek to improve the skills and resources of Linux and open source professionals, by providing services and setting standards which are relevant, of high quality and widely accessible.
Help fight continental drift.
Its sad that novell dumped their Unix division just when I joined them, and then :)
they are embracing Linux few years after I dumped them
That apart, I think if Novell is really serious about Linux and Linux specialists, please
do not follow RHCE or any other certification. You should identify what aspects
of linux concerns you most. Then identify the contributions made by the concerned
parties to this field. Also, IMHO, it is much more sensible to identify specialists with
their contributions to the open source community. Redhat certification is very
commercialised, and is for people entering Linux to prove their worth to the world.
What you are looking at is to identify real specialists, many of who may not even bother
to prove themselves to anybody, and their works speak for them.
Identify broad areas such as:
Linux Kernel (Accomplished in kernel development)
Linux Device (Someone who is a wizard in getting any device working on Linux)
Linux Installation (Someone who can troubleshoot all kinds of installation problems,
who knows, redhat, debian, gentoo and what not on the back of their palm)
Linux Application (Someone who specialises in applications, KDE/Gnome, etc.)
Linux Ultimate (Accomplished in all the areas)
Now come up with different titles such as Specialist, Master, Guru etc. These titles identify the
extent of their skills. A Linux Kernel Guru might indicate kernel developer whereas Linux Kernel Specialist
might refer to someone who is good at managing patches, troubleshooting the kernel, installing modules etc.
Of course, people who have not contributed to open source should be able to prove themself by either
working with Novell on some projects, or by taking some certification exams. I think it is necessary to differentiate the two categories.
Infact if Novell starts a centralised Linux forum to attract newbies and experts to discuss (like linuxquestions.org) it will be easy to identify the gurus by their contributions and newbie testimonials.
Hope this helps.
DO NOT PANIC
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - substance abuser Liza Minnelli's marriage was found dead in her Honolulu mansion this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss it - even if you didn't enjoy it, there's no denying its contributions to popular culture. Truly an American phenomenon.
well, it could be negative. He's only selecting it out of the table. If he had said something like
SELECT karma FROM users WHERE userid=13874 AND karma > 1
Then it would only return a positive value for karma, or no rows at all. I don't think the ' are required, at least not in mysql, mssql, or postgre.
Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.
I got one, back in the day. Must be sort of dodgy.
No need for that, his problem is obvious. If he can't install Linux these days, he's dumbass and should not touch computers.
I don't know a single technical person who is a) reasonably good at what he does, while b) being certified as such. Said another way, all of the people I know who have a clue about any specific technology are almost certainly not the people who hold any formal certifications in that area. By and large, I don't see much evidence that the technical community in general thinks too highly of certifications. Sure, some certifications can be difficult to achieve, and can be crafted in such a way as to filter out everyone but the experts. But creating such a test would be difficult to do, and it would take a lot of time to evolve (especially something so diverse and varied as 'Linux'). And even once you get there, you still have the problem that the technical folks don't value the certification anyway.
/. is a good step towards getting useful feedback, but I think the right step would be to source a few tech heads (full-time, contract, whatever) and task them with the problem.
From what I hear in the questions posed in the original post, it sounds like there is a group of non-technical people who are searching for a way to bless some small subset of the technical crowd. I think it would be far wiser to hire some technical people to do this job for you. If you're still committed to building a certification process, get your technical people to do it for you. Posting on
Certianly nothing Novell about that question...
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
screen
Send bugreports, fixes, enhancements, t-shirts, money, beer & pizza to screen@uni-erlangen.de
Yeah.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
To put it simply, parrots can get certified. You don't have to understand a thing, just remember what you were told.
You don't want a parrot, you want a penguin :-)
Also remember that certification gets out of date rapidly - ultra rapidly in the Linux world. So that certificate may not be worth much anyway if its more than 6 months old. So are you willing to give the time to these certified people to keep up to date, and keep their certification up to date ?
Very interesting question. Five years ago I would have said that certifications were about as useful a predictor of knowledge as swirling tea leaves in a cup. I've seen some really good MCSEs with a thorough knowledge of networking and their specialties and just as many who can't properly subnet a network. Five years ago, anyone who was seriously into Linux was *usually* a competent sysadmin in their own right and didn't need a piece of paper to prove it.
I think this has changed. There are a lot more people getting into Linux for the money than there has ever been before. This has upsides and downsides. Upside -- Linux is growing. Downside, it's no longer an arcane science. I can live with the downside though.
Alas, we peddle our skills to non-technical types who don't understand that a cram session and the ability to prepare for a test does not predict the knowledge of a consultant or future employee. They, for good or bad, use keyword filters or head hunter resume databases to choose candidates. Those who have magical letters on their resume get noticed. The rest, regardless of knowledge, get filtered out before ever being seen by a human.
So are Linux certifications a good thing? Maybe. If done right and don't end up as a certification mill as happened with the MCSE, then sure. They can help show a certain level of competency and could ensure that the certificate holder has the broad level of knowledge required to pass the test. In the next five years I'd expect that more executives will start asking for some certification anyway.
This will only work if the certification process in itself does not become an industry. The cost of taking the test should be low (under $150) but it must be difficult. Ideally it would include a practical, hands-on section instead of a bunch of multiple choice questions. The course work should be openly available and reflect not only real-world knowledge but some theoretical and philosophical aspects of using Linux.
Interestingly, the bottom of the page had the following Slashdot sig/QOTD:
"This is the sort of English up with which I will not put." -- Winston Churchill
> and it's name has "cat" in it -- wow!!
Dork.
> that's was
Dork again.
> "Harvard comma" used
No. YHBT YLA HAND Dork.
What a Dork!
Find the golden fwibble before midnight!
Instead of certifications, just figure out how good someone is at getting results quickly and effectively for various types of problems that involve Linux as a solution and you've got a winner.
Linux distributions vary so much that is hard to say that anyone is an expert on every distribution. The LPI is good well rounded cert and the RHCE are somewhat well rounded but focus primarily on RedHat. The best thing to do would be to come up with your own Novell cert that had varying levels based on the configuration of the Novell distro. A good starting point is the Linux Administration Handbook. This has a solid base of knowledge that most linux admins should know.
Later,
Phil
Honestly, I think I would rather have the spacewars game that was included in the Personal Netware package. But that may just be me.
-Rusty
You never know...
i thought that they only included nsnipes on 2.x? i remember when 3.x came out and was disappointed that snipes wasn't included.
eric
This is why most serious professionals think slashdot is a joke. You have an opportunity to open the community to a big company and you spit on it. Well Mr Novell, here's some decent advice:
1. Disregard 95% of what you read in slashdot comments.
2. RHCE certs are a decent requirement for the title "Linux Specialist", they are certainly better than not having any cert at all since then you have *no* barometer at all except screening by known-experts, which is going to bore (and severely annoy) the experts.
3. Comparing the RHCE to the MCSE is not valid since the RHCE cert requires a lab to prove you can put your fingers on the keys and make it happen, not just answer silly questions.
4. No I don't have a RHCE cert, nor do I really want one.
5. Basic programming and scripting are invaluable in the *nix world. At least shell scripting. And by basics I mean knowing how to use an array and loops, etc.
6. Security is essential. This topic is too huge to expand on here.
7. Setting up a *nix box does *not* mean that you can admin it correctly.
8. Making a *nix server interoperate with Windows clients is probably the near future.
9. Wireless AP/firewall/VPN/email/web/whatever, the person should be proficient in at least one major piece of software, not just the OS (not all these on one box, please).
10. Make sure that you don't forget about *BSD. They are free and FreeBSD is honestly preferred by most of the old-timers I've ever met for something you want to just sit there and run for the next 5 years with reboots/patches every 6 months. BSD just doesn't have the glammer attached to it, and hopefully never will if it means that a bunch of arrogant little kids start giving the rest of us a bad name.
Unlike most of these retards, I actually hope that this helps.
I mean, do they sell Novell Linux? If so, what constitutes an expert at Novell Linux is up to them.
If they don't, why exactly do we need Novell to say who is a linux specialist? Their problem, not ours.. if they want to position themselves as some kind of industry leader in linux... I don't see what qualifies them.
Cisco came out with CCIE to certify internetworking experts years ago.. and, although it is of course a merketing ploy, it worked, because at the time cisco was the biggest name in interenetworking, and was in a better position than anyone to define who really knew their stuff. You couldn't be an expert at internetworking without understanding most of ciscos lineup anyway...
Novell is in no such position.
How about requiring them to be a Debian maintainer? ;-)
Certifications mean nothing.
.
I mean it.
Linux is moving WAY TOO FAST to invest 5K in certification, to learn a PRODUCT.
Look at a persons resume, and identify WHAT they have done with Linux, and what was accomplished.
I can't repeat this enough. Certification is almost worthless. The industry moves so fast, that competency in a PRODUCT won't cut the mustard
Next to check is REFERENCES. Dial dial dial talk talk talk to coworkers, bosses, even customers if you can get a hold of them.
Ultimately a person is reviewed by his peers, not by tiny sheets of paper that are relevant for about 3 days, before the entire distro is republished on sourceforge.
Finally, let them demonstrate if they wish.
I bring a projector and my Laptop with me to interviews, and I show my interviewers the nasty Oracle databases I built, my amanda backup scenarios, a couple of custom kernels I built myself to add P4 support, DRI support to give OpenGL a boost for example, I configure it and let it build in a window while I show them my Java ECLIPSE and CVS development environment...etc.
So in general.
Certifications suck, people who lots of nice things on thier resumes who have references and come to an interview ready to rock, are good.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
The error is "Operating System Not Found".
....can they run Linux?
Check on their resume if they put "GNU/Linux" instead of Linux.
I am Monkey, the Great Sage, equal of heaven!
My opinion:
A "linux specialist" has most likely submitted at least one patch to at least one open source project. Even if this isn't a big flashy bit, it still requires knowing what pieces are doing what to know what needs patching, and then some coding skills to write the patch. This is then peer-reviewed before being accepted into the project. Even if they don't have coding skills, documentation authors/contributors also show a reasonable depth of knowlage. If you want to hire someone who knows something, ask them where their name can be found.
In my experience most people who do [Microsoft] certifications are motivated by: a) Being new to the business and want to climb the pay-scale as fast as possible. or b) Having some kind of threat, like redundancy hanging over them, or maybe they hate their current job. In the UK, employers are summarily asking for MCSE's - even for fairly simple work. It's a product of a deflated market. I felt I had to get it to get another job more easily. I do feel uneasy that my certificates have uncle Bill's signature on them! I also have some Cisco certifications, these are much more real-world orientated than the Microsoft ones. I really want to take the RHCE (to get the full set, so-to-speak), but I can't afford the 500 to take it. The RHCE is almost all lab-based - which in my opinion makes them trustworthy (but also expensive to take!). ]-[
Who is Tony Renna anyway?
I am Monkey, the Great Sage, equal of heaven!
If Novel isn't careful, it might end up increasing their market share.
What are they thinking?!?
How about, "Yes, all of the above", including more basic "old school" admin tasks, such as distro building, compiling, and other basic system administration tasks?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
It's simply enough put. "Linux Specialist" directly refers to someone that has specialized in providing Linux solutions. That is their area of expertise - linux. Not servers, specifically, but doing things with linux.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Your questions touch onto subjects even a lead admin will likely never use and fails to cover essentials like:
MTA configuration: postfix, exim, qmail, sendmail.
Cluster management: DRBD, heartbeat, arp.
User deployment: openldap, nis, kerbos.
Systems management: cfengine, webmin, perl, bash.
DNS: Bind8/9.
Security: Snort, tripwire.
Web: apache, zope, mod_php, mod_perl.
Of course if you expect your interviewie to know all the above, plus all the stuff you listed I sure hope the position you're hiring for pays 6 figures.
If indeed you're going to make your own certification program, here's my personal suggestion.
Do NOT use multiple choice. Use essays.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Umm, not that a dead guy isn't tragic, but for krist sakes, hundreds of thousands of people die every day, and one more marginal "celebrity" does not for a tragedy make. Get some fricken perspective!
I believe that the words you are looking for are christ and fucking. Maybe you should invest in a spellchecker?
If you want to measure competencies, then you need to break this down into categories.
Design Competency
This should cover the elements of gathering the requirements from a customer, and designing appropriate hardware and software solutions for the client. It should include an assessment of their knowledge of
Implementation & Support
This should capture if they understand the nuances of rolling out linux in an organisation
Now the harder part is "how to you test this". As a perpetual student I would suggest that you need to do this in a multi-phase test. This will be expensive, but it will ensure that you get some level of objectivity:
1: You write a scenario based around a real world example to assess their ability to come up with an appropriate hardware and software solution for the design components.
2: Give them a multi-processor + Raid + Redundant PSU server and get them to install, configre and lockdown the system. Then get them to install a heap of services that you think are important.
3: Give them 10 PC's. Get them to build an image on 1 and then roll the image across all 10 workstations. Make some of the workstations different, give them different size drives, and different network adapters. See how they adjust to the variations
4: Bring a secretary in and get them to run a "how to use" session for the secretary. See how good they are
Also: Note this does not necessarily need to be the one person for all skills. So be flexible and allow them to have up to 3 different people to deliver the outcome. The only limit is that only 1 person can spend time with the end-user. If you want any more ideas or thoughts, feel free to mail me: starsky AT bluecouch DOT COM DOT AU
lounge around on the blue couch
Google knows all! This site has 3 versions of Snipes.
Most of the certification programs do not involve working with Novell. You basically want to create one that means not only competent in Linux, but also able to to Novell and can make intelligent choices. While Redhat has a good program, LPI is distro and company neutral. That is your best bet.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It's not even 200,000 dude. More like about 70,000 to 80,000.
Name a graphical Linux application that is not a game, and has a name that both describes what it does and does not begin in K, G, or X.
That's a real test.
the other part of the test is wether or not they think that's funny.
You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.
Having heard a support conversation with novell saying that they don't support Tomcat, Apache and linux even though it is a supported configuration for their portal services I would embrace them yet.
Oh, I can INSTALL linux, I just can't get my modem, keyboard, or sound card to work. The sad thing is, I'm so good with Windows machines, I probably run across less problems with this Windows machine than you do with your Linux box.
sorry... would not embrace them.
1) Explains why Windows processes worse than Linux processes. Check.
2) "I can understand both Perl 4 and Perl 5". Check.
3) Runs own SMTP server at home. Check.
4) Chooses banks whose online service works only with Mozilla over IE. Check.
5) Scavenges business discards for old computers because they would make good Linux Servers. Check.
6) Does weird things to Furrbies wired into serial port. Check.
This is my sig.
For those of you who don't know, Novell qualifications still count for a great deal in the real world of IT contracting. There is still a perception that 'real' IT professionals have a CNE (Certified Novell Engineer). The rest have an MCSE.
Novell recently aquired Ximian. This gives them access to the XD2 desktop, Mono, Gnome development, red carpet and more.
I think that this puts them in a very good position to integrate their current networking products (E-Directory, ZenWorks etc) with Linux.
This does however potentially create a compex environment for a corporate to adjust to. In order for them to adjust, there has to be a set of qualifications that distinguish between someone who can impliment an enterprise environment, from a home user still at school.
well, it could be negative. He's only selecting it out of the table. If he had said something like
I kind of assumed (call it a prejudice if you will) that anyone who speaks any dialect of Sql is likely not a troll.
easy...Anyone who started using Linux after Novell sold Unixware to SCO should be able to get a Novell Linux cirtification.
I liked what I read in a reply about LFS install and the some from the Slackware camp. I think that a Linux expert should be able to recompile a kernel and configure the system using native GNU tools on all systems. The main problem I have with the RHCE is the fact that a lot of it seems very Redhat centered. I know that there is no way that a person could be concidered competent if a "Distro" stumps them if you can use the standard GNU tools that works on Redhat and on all other systems. All unix type skills should be there too. If a person cannon even crack open vi and edit files he is not your man.
Got hosting
Most of the posts I've seen on here seem to take the angle that they're looking for individual credentials. That's not what I get from the question.
Credentialing a partner (a business) should have a broader scope than having so many of this certification or that on staff. In my mind, at least, a partner would be required to spend x dollars a year keeping their internal training facilities current.
They would also maintain legacy hardware for probably three to five years after production ends. This would allow them to maintain currency on not only current hardware, but legacy equipment that might still be in use, or that a client might demand be used.
All people associated with delivering service to the customer would not only be required to spend some amount of time in the partner's training facility (4 weeks annually? - internal training or external), but would be required to spend 2 or more weeks a year in training that relates to business. This business training would, preferably, be in the partner's vertical market space so that the person delivering the service can better understand the customer's business.
I would also expect any top level partners to regularly participate in the Linux community, preferably as sponsors or contributors. If the partner has more of a stake in the community, they'll work harder to make the community successful while making themselves successful.
I'd also require some method of polling the partner's customers to determine the quality of service delivered to the customers. Include some method of penalizing bad service and rewarding outstanding service.
I'd also randomly poll the employee's of those partners about their impression of the quality of service delivered to the customer, and also about the environment they work in. People that aren't enjoying themselves tend to provide lower quality products.
At any rate, that's what immediately comes to mind. I'm sure I could come up with more given more time.
Sig??? I don't need no stinkin Sig!
People who want to be certified - need to be active members of something, be it development, trouble shooting, or installation mailing list. Active mean you post questions, you answer questions and engage productively in the conversation.
This shows several things (1) the quality of your questions (2) how well they have researched the material (3) the ability to diagnose a problem and (4) when you do get stuck - that you actually know how to get solutions and/or workarounds to problems
Another way this can be shown - is to lurk - and update, review, and revise documetation. This can be as simple as adding a comment like - Reviewed & Relvent Date/Time - By Bozo Clown. You can also add - or improve HOWTO items, and/or other generalized documentation.
Any body can talk the talk about certification (ie: listen and lurk) But - to be certified, I believe you must also be able to walk the walk in a very public way.
In short - you should be able to Google their name and find what they do, and what they have done.
What do you want? 2 choices
1) You want someone who is a Linux Admin with Novell training.
2) You want someone who is a Novell Admin with Linux training.
These two may eventually converge, but they definitely start from different places. My personal feeling is that you need a "Linux Addendum" to your Novell training, so your current Novell Admins aren't left out. This would be something like an LCI over-easy + Novell tools and configuration on Linux.
And you also need a "Novell training for Linux Admins" class. This doesn't assume any prior familiarity with Novell, but does assume good Linux Admin skills. (Define that however you choose.)
This is sort of like the argument from the 1960's of which school BioChemistry should be in. Chemistry or Biology. Eventually it became it's own school, but until then there was no one right answer. And either choice could be (and was!) forced to work. But the word there is forced.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
The best certifications are those that test *real comprehension* -- certs along the lines of the CCIE, RHCE and your CDE that test skills, not memorization. I've taken 30 exams since 1989 -- done the CSE, CNE 2-6, ECNE, MCNE, MCSE -- and I know how utterly worthless they are. I mean, who cares if you can memorize and regurgitate arcane facts and settings? The point is comprehension, competence, and skills-building.
...and that's it! Prove that we know what we're doing, not that we can memorize the functions of certain filenames in the _NETWARE directory. PLEASE!
Whether you embrace the RHCE or roll a better one (I'll pass on the CLA -- it's just more memorization), it should:
- Cost the same as existing tests; ~$125,
- Use a simulator,
- Test setup and troubleshooting skills in a goal-oriented manner
- Not involve travel over 100 miles away
"It remains to be seen if the human brain is powerful enough to solve the problems it has created." Dr. Richard Wallace
FWIW, there's a screen mailing list at gnu-screen@yahoogroups.com ... I've put up a few other screen links at the debian screen package page
First named here.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
Remember you're talking to Novell here -- THEY want to be the "Linux expert" (write the software) and they are looking for people to push their product (install the software).
nice, thanks for the news, this is very sad, but very funny
They held a meeting...telling the UNIX admins how Novell was going to improve UNIX.
By removing confusing and useless commands like grep as an example.
with things like "uber" and "guru" in them. Also bring out that competitive edge... Rank every last one who takes the test. If there is a ladder/ranking competition people will come out of the woodwork and do this for the recognition... at least that guy who did the Reiser filesystem will at least... after all it is all about name recognition aint it?
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
The ONLY exams worth ANYTHING are real-world exams like RHCE, which I think is an excellent exam unlike MC$E which everyone cheats at as their is no real world knowledge.
I tend to disagree with previous posters who say that the technology is moving too fast to make a qualification worthwhile. Well thought out exams like RHCE test how well you think on your feet and not how well you know a particular product. However, I would suggest that most releases are similar enough that if you know version x well you will fly through version y.
Firmly agree with posters who say experience is key, but having that and a solid qualification or 2 puts your CV to the top of the file.
I just like the name of the poster: richard e holder. Dick Holder. fnarr..
I kind of assumed (call it a prejudice if you will) that anyone who speaks any dialect of Sql is likely not a troll.
You haven't met the dba's where I work then.
This isn't any ordinary darkness. It's advanced darkness.
With the diversity of linux, it should not be attached to any specific distribution.... unless that is what you are trying to achieve. In which case the qualification won't be worth a lot.
/etc
/proc
It's probably worth having a few different levels, and maybe specialisations. Trying to cover the whole topic to a good standard in one go will be about as effective as trying to row a boat with a mango.
Some pre-thought (ie haven't thought far about it) ideas:
Basic setup:
- Partitioning (effectivley)
-
- optimizations
- interoprability/compatibility
Stuff that I can't think of a name for:
-
- scripting
- making stuff user friendly (big potential to expand this one)
Networking:
- firewall
Security:
Admin:
- quotas
- User management
Concepts:
- Trade-offs ** very important
I am somewhat in a hurry this afternoon, but you can see that there is plenty of room to expand this. Want to add more, but got to go. Hope this helps.
Funnyhacks - Wierd, unusual, and fun hacks
Yes, obtaining RHCE diploma is a tough job but after all it tells me that you can configure a red hat linux server.
Right now, RH being the dominant player in the market, this certification may bode well with anyone looking out to hire Linux help, but IMHO, Linux certification should not be tied to any single vendor distro.
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
if $slashdot_uid = 500000 {
$user = novell linux expert!
} else {
echo "go get an mcse!"
}
If you want to ensure that they have serious expertise, you could require that
they retain someone on staff from whom Linus regularly accepts patches. That,
however, is going to limit how many of your partners can have this status.
You may want to set the bar somewhat lower. For example, you could merely
require that their corporate network include at least some number (or perhaps
some percentage) of Linux systems that they manage themselves internally and
which must be able to perform certain functions on their network (e.g.,
function as print servers, file servers, whatever it is you want to require).
You could require certifications in addition, but requiring them to include
Linux in their own network infrastructure ensures they have some real-world
experience with it that will go beyond the bookwork involved in passing a
certification. (The requirement of administering these systems themselves
prevents them from just buying a support contract from someone else and then
being considered experts themselves. They have to have their own support
team on staff for it, then.)
If all you want is a basic level of familiarity, you could simply require
some number or percentage of their support people to have some certification
or another. That's about as low as you can set the bar and have the status
hold any real meaning, I think. There's a tradeoff between choosing this
level and the higher requirement of having Linux on their own corporate
network. Namely, with the lower requirement more of your partners will
seek and obtain the expert status, which is good, but with the higher
requirement the ones who do will be better experts, which is also good.
I can see arguments either way, as far as which is better.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
as we embrace linux? what is this? a cult?
Must show ability to install e.g. Neverwinter Nights, as an installation which:
1. Allows games users to play the game;
2. Doesn't allow non-games users to play the game;
3. Prevents users trashing the executables;
4. Allows games users to save the game and their characters;
5. Doesn't allow games users to save over others' saved games and characters;
6. Allows a 'games administrator' to remove players' saved games and characters.
If they can successfully accomplish this with something as messily arranged as Neverwinter Nights, they should be capable of organising the equivalent for other, better-arranged software packages such as anything which knows to install games in /usr/games.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Your clients are going to feel much more comfortable with certification, no matter how many /.'ers feel otherwise. RHCE is administered in such a way as to make 'paper' certs very difficult from a purest viewpoint.
If I were hiring Linux specialists, I would start with either A) Techs with verifiable experience or B) Techs with good certs.
Then, I'd set them to work in a lab for three hours recompiling/upgrading the kernel, upgrade all apps., install 2 apps from src.rpm's with broken dependencies, have them install/activate NIC's, add mod drivers, configure firewall, compile one server from source, configure it to run on eth2 port 999, show competence in compression (tar, gzip, bzip) + decomp, display ability to subnet + basic network troubleshooting, & write up concise resolution on helpdesk ticket for the lab.
Finally, have prospective employees explain what they did to your secretary, or some other Linux deficient personnel. Quiz secretary on what was fixed, if she got a vague, positive idea of what happened, hire that guy! You can train 10-15% of the population to be excellent admins, but you can only find ~10% of those who can communicate well with clients, and frankly that's nearly as important as the rest of it ( not instead of, but in combination with).
I guess the above steps should qualify for your own certification process of sorts, Linux Eval Certification maybe? I know I've interviewed enough poor candidates who cleared HR and IT supervisory staff to be very suspicious of most certifications and degrees. Case in point, I've had to train a college grad with a Masters in CIS twice as long as a goat herder and florist with certifications. There's simply no good objective measure other than applying your own testing with labs on live machines/networks.
Having real world experience is pretty good. Anyone can study for a test, especially when there are condensed study/answer guides to every common test at your local bookstore. And there are several skills that aren't easily measured with tests. It's no substitute for a decent portfolio. Crammed knowledge fades quickly when not in use.
It has always been my feeling that those tests are out there to make money selling answer books to people planning to take the test, then charging them hundreds more to take the test. Then they run these massive campaigns to encourage employers to require potential employees to have taken and passed their silly tests.
I kind of assumed (call it a prejudice if you will) that anyone who speaks any dialect of Sql is likely not a troll.
Why does knowing SQL suddenly disqualify you from trolling? In any case, most of the trolls have high karma. Its the crapflooders who are -1. Still, I would expect even a crapflooder to understand some basic SQL.
Yes. Have you considered medical treatment? I understand that your condition makes you easy to shoot in the dark.
and they will come.
I agree with most people here that being able to remember and regurgitate facts is not really useful in the real world. You must be able to "figure things out" and "make it happen".
Make the certification consist of troubleshooting problems. Allow the person access to the net so they can show that even if they don't know something about what they are dealing with they can still learn how to fix the problems. The test shouldn't be able to be studied for, it should be somewhat unique to each person taking it. Ask the person to make "a" work with "b". Ask them to find the solution to our "need", whether it be things as simple as a way to view and print different types of document files, to something like finding the best solutions for centralized application serving, and when to roll your own solution from scratch instead of using what already exists.
If you want the cert to represent people who can get the job done, you want the test to be geared towards finding people who can diagnose problems even if they are not knowledgable about what is causing the problem. For example, some people may not be at the level to fix a bug in a kernel module, but they should at least be able to diagnose that the module is the problem. For this you'd want multiple levels of certification: Kernel/Driver Programming, Application Programming, Application Integration, System configuration, Networking, Solutions Evaluator(What do we need to accomplish this task?), and a very useful Cert: Explanation (can be aquired in conjunction with the others, how to explain what something is doing in non-geek language). Of course name those to something else, those are just descriptive names.
If you did something like that, you wouldn't just be certifying people on linux, but people who can "make it happen". These are the people companies really need to survive, the people behind it all, the indispensible person a company will not fire because without them, productivity would halve. The innovators(it's tood bad this word means little nowadays), the inventors, the "go to" person. That would make this a very tough, yet the most sought after cert once people realize the extreme quality of people who earn it.
There are people out there who are extremely good "make this work" people, who can get any job done, yet they don't have certs because certs just mean "I can memorize and regurgitate facts for a test, but that doesn't necessarily mean I can make stuff happen". Certainly there are people who have certs that are the "go to person", but there are many more who just know enough to pass the test. There should be a cert that truly IS what people expect them to be, something that shows that this IS the person you need for the job.
What is needed in the world is a certification that show a person's overall competence in technology. Maybe Novell doesn't want to be the ones to do it, but whoever does will change the world for the better.
And now I re-read the original question and realize that the questioner may be asking how to certify companies as "Linux-Specialists" maybe not about People Certification.... oh well, at least I got my idea out somewhere.
At least I'm a specialist somewhere, Army Specialist, heh.
He was the guy in that old sitcom "Taxi". After that he quit acting and went into racing.
Give them a known vulnerable system (it should have, at the very least, bad sendmail, bad apache, and the ptrace kernel bug).
Ask them to run sendmail and apache on the system so that it will not be possible to change the web site's files, read people's email, or otherwise break into the system. This should be done WITHOUT UPGRADING OR PATCHING, using only the services provided.
Anyone who can do this probably knows his chroot, ldd and filesystem enough to qualify.
I think one of the things that I have been missing in this discussion is fear of knowing less than a certificate asks you to know.
Yes, you might think you are a pretty sleek Linux knower, but question A on page 2 of the certification test baffles you, and you can't answer it.
Before one thinks of certification, one has to admit that he/she doesn't know 'everything' there is to know about an operating system like Linux. The goal of certification should therefore be to stimulate you to learn more, instead of asking you the questions you can already answer.
In essence, it is the challenge that counts here, not the paper you get afterwards. People who only want to have the paper are probably in the wrong class, and should go study on their Word skills or something...
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
Yes... produce code.
The JZA
What does that mean?
Some duties of a ISP/sysadmin:
Compare that to the duties of a Linux-desktop user:
Or perhaps the corporate sysadmin:
The point I'm trying to make is that saying somebody is competent "at Linux" is like saying that somebody is competent "at cooking".
Your 5-star gourmet chinese-food chef is going to have very different expectations than your 5-star western barbecue cuisine chef is going to have very different expectations than your local McD's burger flipper, even though they may all qualify for "competent at cooking".
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
If you're going to claim to be a Linux specialist, you should have experience running Linux on a non-x86 architecture. You enter a whole different world when you run Linux on powerpc, and take a lot less for granted. While I've not done it, I'm sure going mips or 68k really makes you learn a lot.
In principio creauit Linus Linucem.
I had to ask myself why a director of Novell Marketing wants Linux community opinions on Linux certs. The answer was pretty obvious.
There are a lot of Novell certified folks out there with no Linux skills. I used to be a huge Novell guy. Then I learned Linux and discovered open-source. I had to learn a LOT. Based on all I've learned, I don't see anything that Novell+Linux can do better than Linux+Open-Source. The Linux skills I learned are the exact same skills Novell needs it's CNEs to learn. CNEs need to keep recomending Novell products to their bosses. (bonus if lots of linux admins start buying Novell products, too...)
Using Linux in a meaningful way means embracing OPEN-SOURCE! Novell's money comes from licensing closed-source products. Many of them are based on non-GNU open-source codebases! Becoming a Linux admin means learning that licensing per-user is stupid. If you want more users, you beef up the hardware. Not being able to tweak and recompile your apps is stupid. Using a closed-source pay-per-user product on the back end is not as flexible as using an open-source product.
The Novell Product Line:
eDirectory NDS=closed-source custom OpenLDAP with NCP protocol wrappers to support your NDS-only, non-ldap apps. (e.g. they customized it by adding Novell backwards compatibility)
Nterprise Web Platform=Apache+Tomcat with auth_ldap. I admit I don't know too much about Novell's web platform. Or how Novell manages to sell this as a product...I guess you're paying for a GUI admin app instead of editing the conf files?
iPrint=Novell closed-source implementation of the ietf IPP protocol, tied to NDS. (cups is a great GNU implementation of the IPP protocol)
GroupWise=...uh...wierd. GroupWise is nicer than any open-soruce groupware, but it's niche. GroupWise is just as tied to NDS as Exchange is to Active Directory. Open-source groupware on win32 is slim. A free pop3 client+commercial calender app is klunky. Novell's recent aquisition of Ximian and hard pushing of the exchange connector Linux desktops proves that they already know Exchange has won the small-to-mid groupware market. Novell sells an Exchange client to Linux users, but doesn't have a Groupwise client for Linux users? (the web client is no better than MS's web client)
iFolder=hyped up "home directory" for places that let their NT and Netware file servers get out of control. If you need iFolder, it's because you're too lazy to fix your file servers. (e.g. migrate them on Linux, and win clients get to them via samba and ftp)
ZenWorks 4 Servers=Win2k and Netware Server management for amature admins. If you're really linux savy, you're getting rid of these servers. At the very least, you use scripts to manage them.
Zenworks 4 Desktops=Totally obsoleted by Win2000 client's built-in management. (Novell has basically given up marketing it...) Use MSI for app distribution, WMI scripts for everything else.
No self-respecting Linux guru is going to pull out open-ldap and replace it with NDS. The only reason to use NDS instead of LDAP is if you have legacy apps. (the number of non-Novell apps that are NDS aware can be counted on 1 hand)
Basically, if Novell really teaches it's CNEs to be Linux proficient, they'll be teaching the CNEs to chose open-source instead.
I never felt MCSE/MCP/* were better or smarter than other windows admin/programmers. In fact, I always felt that someone who had "and by the way, I'm a MSPECSDE!" in the sig, would be seem a little less serious and knowledable in most cases.
So, how can we ensure that the same thing doesn't happen to the penguin community? Simple - we make the tests friggin' HARD! They are supposed to be hard, and not something your grandmother can pass given enough time and money. (no offense to grandmothers. object may appear closer than they really are. )
A linux certification should demonstrate a grasp of all basic concepts, and the most important "advanced" ones.
Maybe a free linux certification could be developed. Or maybe it couldn't, but IMHO, that an interesting thought.
Just my 2 eurocent
With great numbers come great responsibility!
Do your neighbours ever ask "Where are the other four?".
After doing the Linux From Scratch project as a basis for building my own customized Linux box from the complete source code I would say I learnt far more about the structure and administration of Linux than I could have done sitting any formal exams.
One of the things I have done at the deparment in my uni I work at is create a novell -> samba bridge to allow local admiinitration of user accounts. Our IT department hates me for it, but the faculty and department head love it. I don't know about linux acting as a novell server or if it is even capable, but novell client black art is something I'd respect. The utilities to get such a setup working are a black box with old documentation and confusing configuration, but after several e-mails with the author of ncputils and a LOOOOOT of hacking around I've figured almost all if it out. Now I map the entire public novell diretory services tree and all directory servies printers through samba acting as a domain controller with roaming profiles. Soon I intend to remove the novell mapping and convert to cups using the windows and adobe postscript drivers to allow departmental quotas, time limits, and page counting to work and be maintained by the department and not a hard to get in touch with overworked IT department. Kinda sad about it in a way because printing to NDS was the hardest part to figure out.
Anyways that's my novell on linux story. Would anyone mind filling me in on options for linux as a novell server? I'll probably never use it as one but I like to know these things just for the sake of knowing. Only problem is I got too many other things to learn first before I spend time researching it. Therefore comments from people who already have would be greatly appreciated.
Unlike all the certs i have.. which mainly were attained by memorization and not necessairly but actually knowing how to do the work, i think the industry needs more of a apprenticeship type program.
There are too many different areas of specialization and you can't possibly be an expert in all of them.. I know programmers that can't for the life of them figure out IP subnetting, yet at the same time they write awesome code without much difficulty.
At the risk of being flamed, i've got Novell 4.10,4.11,5 CNE certs as well as the requiste MCSE, and CCNA.. but from experience.. they don't mean CRAP.. the best training was the novell because you guys discussed not only how to make it work, but why it works.. unlike the M$ training.. (press this button clicker training)
I got my cisco certs, not because i needed to learn it, i already knew all the stuff in that course, but because my employer was required to have "X" number of cisco certified people on staff.. i regularly subbnetted and routed ATM networks.. and people think IP is hard.. hahah..
With a apprenticeship type program.. you guarantee that a: people are actually getting real world experience and b: the people are worth their salt..
A standard test at teh end like a CCIE where there is practical exam (take all this hardware and make it do this..) makes all teh sense in the world..
Anyone that calls themself a linux expert is full of shit.. there are too many different areas of specialization.
.... the most important thing that you could do is an in house test. In my opinion, the best certification that has been available in years was the CCIE, Mainly baecause it was a hands on test. If you really want to be able to say someone is a Linux Expert design a test around the things that are most important and have each canidate pass the exam.
I would say the following are areas to focus on:
Security, Security, Security!!! A good security minded person will naturally have all of the administration skills; user accounts, passwords, ftp security, etc.
configuration to various hardware platforms, Raids, NICs, etc.(note this should require recompilation)
Connectivity, SMB, NFS, etc...
Automation, setting up maintenance, logs, and alerts
Live diagnostics, can you find out what is wrong without taking down the server
Clustering (if you need someone with that much knowledge)
Problem solving! Not everything you do will be in a how-to, or man, or even in a book. The best "experts" know how to make their own solutions when there is not a suitable one available. That is also a real core value in the Linux Community.
A very important thing to keep in mind is that there is a big difference between clients and servers, and just because a person is good at one, does not mean that he or she will be good at the other.
----- "It's all fun and games 'til somebody puts an eye out, then it's just funny."
Yeah. Get a friggin Computer Science degree and stop whoring your so-called experience.
.sig I just have my name, position and employer. Why? Because I'm trained in more than just installing the OS of the day.
.sig. I had to wonder whether he had a CS degree and decided that if he had one he would have listed that too.
.sigs is inversely proportional to their ....
I just have to laugh. In my
My favorite was some guy who had a string of 15 Microsoft and Cisco Certs in his
I guess the length of some guys cert
But that's already the case. Having a Harvard MBA won't land you a job as an accountant without the CPA designation.
The certifications are useful for the uneducated to know the person they are hiring is sufficiently competent to pass a test developed by industry experts. I wish there was a certification; it would give me specific goals to learn and distinguish me from those who've only dropped a SuSE distro onto an old box in stand-alone mode.
Of course to be useful it would need an organization similar to the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants to create the test and keep it current. This is no small undertaking (follow the link and see all the stuff AICPA does). If it were as rigourous and respected as a CPA the dues needed t osupport the organization would be well worth the higher salary the certified could command.
-Every system must glow at night. Server rooms should be scary
/. readers are addicted to their blinkenlights and yet are not really game-addicts.
I second that. Modders for beautification are generally not all that interested in the software and are gamers.
Actually there's more diversity here too, not just in terms of sci-fi affinity or software vs hardware specialization. Case in point... I'm not much of a gamer (as in, I play games occasionally, and I'm far from being a l33t gamerz d00d), however my rack glows... I'm in the process of installing LED fans for the rack exhaust, every server has a matrix-orbital LCD display showing useful information, plus various machines in my work area include LED fans, backlit fan-buses and temperature monitors, PCI bus monitoring devices, and more. And I'm primarily a programmer.
Beautification and software do not have to be mutually exclusive.
But admittedly, my tastes aren't always mainstream, even amongst geeks. I'm curious as to how many other
I have not lost my mind... it's backed up on disk somewhere!
> anyone who speaks any dialect of Sql is likely not a troll.
Hmm, doesn't seem too likely to me, as the basics are pretty easy. If he threw a UNION or something fancy in, okay, but if you've taken a single class in Databases or ASP, you know how to use 'SELECT' statement pretty well.
Although this guy didn't explicitly identify himself, a quick search on Google turns up his title from this quote in a news article
It looks like he is manager of Novell's worldwide partner services.I like my Coffee like I like my women: Grounded up and in the freezer.
but if you've taken a single class in Databases or ASP, you know how to use 'SELECT' statement pretty well.
My own opinion of most of the trolls I've seen here is that a single class in databases is more than I would expect to see on their resumes.
It is perhaps useful that an MBA also be a CPA or vice versa, but there is no requirement that one possess the other or that a $25k/year staff accountant or individual auditor have either. The only authority the CPA designation gives is the ability to sign off external audits. I'm not devaluing the designation, but it does have a specific purpose that is not broadly applicable to everyone in business administration or even accounting in general.
| DBA|T]." I doubt if most hiring managers could tell you the difference between an MCSA and MCSE or MCSD and MCAD anyway and god help them if they had to rummage through a stack of them from fifteen different sources. I mean, come on, does it take an MCP to operate Microsoft Word (the only thing required for the credential)? "Gosh, Bob, I like to let you write that letter, but you're not an MC[O|P|S]. You're just not qualified. Here, use this IBM Selectric, which arguably requires greater skills, instead." Please.
If the perception of someone evaluating your skills is so woefully distorted that they cannot divine out the difference between "popping in a SuSE distro" and actual accomplishments based on your past performance and academic history then I doubt if having your name on every RFC for the past decade, a dozen patents and a Nobel Prize would convince them either. I'm sure the word of another faceless corporation that contracts out its training and certification operation to a third-party who then subcontracts "professional trainers" with no working experience beyond the classroom would be highly valuable to some simultaneously arrogant and ignorant human resources drone who is too lazy to perform an evaluation beyond checking off "MC[P|OP|OS[MI]|DST|SA[s|m|'03]|SE[s|m|'03]|SD|AD
Nearly everyone I've encountered in IT, including a number whose names DO appear on RFCs going back twenty years, think these things aren't worth the paper they're printend on. Hiring managers, on the other hand, can't seem to see the forest unless every tree has a big sign on it in 850pt helvetica bold that says "Certified Tree" when a casual glance would provide more information that even the average squirrel could deduce on sight.
I remember the spacewar game. I got personal netware with a gratis copy of DR-DOS (I think it was 6.0 or 7.0) and it was actually kind of cool, although I always thought it would be cool to be able to load NLMs though.
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
Actually, I have a CIS degree...not that it's really any huge deal. It really is just a peice of paper. Hell, if I knew then what I do now, I would just find a decent site on the net and buy the damn thing.
Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.