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Athlon 64 Motherboard Triple Threat Round-Up
SpinnerBait writes "Soon after AMD released the Athlon 64 to the public, eager motherboard
manufacturers unveiled their latest motherboards for AMD's new baby. Some are
offering basic packages that boast features and performance, yet forgo the
extras found in premium bundles. Other manufacturers are offering snazzy new
packages with all kinds of extras and unique features. The only thing left to do
is decide which one is for you. HotHardware has an
article posted up, that
showcases and benchmarks three top Athlon 64 motherboards, from Asus, MSI and
Shuttle. These boards are looking more refined every day."
Now I can finally run... uh... 64 bit Linux, and uh... ummm... SSE2 programs on an AMD chip! Yeah!
PLEASE wait for better sites to do reviews!!!
My server
New boards are STILL BEING MADE with junk capacitors that leak after less then a year of usage!!
Nick, wait 'till your favorite distro is out (64 bit Debian) before you spend your hard earned cash. The prices will have come down a bit, the 1.0 bugs will be out and hopefully fixed, and your favorite motherboard maker (Tyan) will be out with a nice non-overclocker but extremley stabel and quiet 64 bit motherboard solution.
Thanks.
I'm waiting for the Athlon 128.
What ever happened with the exploding motherboards?
Me want.
:)
It rolls over a P4 3.2 gig in the gaming benchmarks.
I guess I am assuming that the Athlon 64 doesn't have some special Quake benchmarking code...
Non of three motherboards supports more than (max) 3G memory, what is the purpose of using 64bit cpu?
So right now your computer is slow, but speeds up over time. Woah!
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
Let's keep it scientific: did you do any measurements, or just you just reckon you have a better eye for heat dissipation than the folk at Asus?
Was this supposed to be 'Triple Treat'? Or should I be concerned that three motherboards are going to kick in my door and start looting my posessions?
YLFIOne god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
hahahahahahahahahhahah
thats why the opterons have made the stock double in the last 3 months?
besides didnt you know. trolls cant become CPA's
lol @ troll.
...
that is why even the retarded analysts are putting AMD up, and why their share price is around $15, as opposed to $4 a year ago
Maybe Santa Clause will bring me a new mainboard & Athlon64 for Christmas...
with about 1 gig of RAM...
I just can't help but feel that the manufacturers are missing the boat on what features should actually be present - and features that at least some folks would pay more for...
* Faster PCI. How about PCI-X? or 66mhz/64bit? Something that lets a power users do more without saturating the bus.
Of course, it'll be a moot point when PCI express arrives...
* More PCI. More than one bus would be nice - even two standard PCI busses would be useful to a lot of folks.
* More memory slots! Um, these CPUs can address more than 2/4 gigabytes. At least 6, and preferably 8 slots would be a good thing - let folks get to some really large RAM sizes inexpensively.
At least they got gigabit right (but probably hooked to the PCI bus, not good), and Firewire (but not the new faster kind, and again, hooked to the PCI bus).
I'd think that a properly outfitted board would be a video enthusiast's dream, or a hpc dream, or whatever. I'd expect that once MS actually ships XP 64, you'll start to see prosumer boards that address my gripes. But I'd sure like one now, price somewhere between these low-enders and higher-end "server" boards.
Jonathan
It's only fitting since the last x86 system I bought is also able to serve as my college apartment's central heating system in the winter time....
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
not everybody runs Micro$not Windoze...
I can buy all three of those boards for the cost of your powermac. Why don't Mac bigots understand capitalism and bang for the buck ? Oh yeah, because they are all liberals.
Be nice if they actually reviewed the nice processor. After all, this is slashdot. If your gonna go 64 bit, might as well go all the way?
*There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape em off Jim!*
1. Why are all three "64bit" boards limited to 4GB of memory?
2. Why are they being evaluated solely with 32bit applications/operating systems? Can't we at least get a kernel compile time benchmark? RedHat's RHEL3 has a free set of beta iso's available for AMD64 so there really wasn't a good excuse for not finding out how well they perform in their native mode.
3. What was the reason for the reviewer's obsession with having six-channel audio as analog outputs without a dongle? Isn't that what SPID-F plugs are for?
4. Since Linux is currently the ONLY supported OS for AMD64 in native mode, information about how well the boards are supported driver wise would have been helpful.
Democrat delenda est
Riiiight... and the average user also cares about motherboards...
</sarcasm>
This isn't a story for the average user. If you're an average user---well, it's alright to be an average user, just don't troll again, m'kay?
Also unfortunate is the price - AUD$1000+ down under. What good is a well-performing dollar when you still get these prices, I ask you?
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I just heard Matt Dillon bought a AMD64 motherboard to do DragonFlyBSD work on, so it'll be coming soon!
apple.com/powermac for all your wants in that list (well, maybe not "low price" but low is a relative term at the cutting edge.
We just bought a Dual G5 and slapped a metric asston of RAM in it and it really is a video editor's dream. Final Cut Pro 4, Compressor and DVD Studio Pro 1.5 scream along.
We didn't really need to upgeade the Dual 450 G4 we were using, but we felt like treating ourselves.
If you consider a 0.5% lead in a synthetic benchmark to be "schooled", I suppose. And ignore the other 3 graphs on that page.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Chaintech ZNF3-150, FIC K8-800T, and MSI K8T
Chaintech ZNF3-150 = nVidia nForce3
FIC K8-800T and MSI K8T = VIA K8T800
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
I think this might be another case of turning a silk purse into a sows ear!
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
I heard that just installing Mandrake linux causes 32 of the 64 bits to fall off...pass it on...
I'm a bit of an AMD fan-boy.... but just recently P4 had a HUGE price cut at the top-end...
Last week:
AMD 64 3200 = $729 (AUD)
P4 3.2 = $1069 (AUD)
Now:
AMD 64 3200 = $729 (AUD)
P4 3.2 = $718 (AUD)
And while engineering finesse means gaming performance is high for the AMDs the P4 still rules in video editing (my upgrade reason), not only because of higher clocks which are better for encoding, but because Adobe tweaks for intel and not AMD.
P4 motherboards are generally more expensive, as is dual channel ram... so I suppose the AMD is still the cheaper solution.
I am torn, but at least competition is forcing them to release technology according to availability rather than according to when the marketing department says we need the next chip.
I wish SuSe would make more of an effort with video editing. I have heard good things about MainActor - but they should try and convince Adobe or one of the "big" video editing guys to port. Releasing a BETA of mainactor with SuSe 9 isn't good enough, you either have production ready software or you don't.
The other option for SuSe is to develop in-house to make things go faster, perhaps buying up (or merging with) one of the smaller video editing companies. They would soon then be on the path to become the "apple" of the PC world.
Think about it:
Open Office 1.1
Mozilla 1.5
good CD/DVD authoring software (DVD menus authoring, not just plain burns)
A decent video editing suite
A industry level raster/vector suite (preferrably through pouring money into the GIMP rather than going closed)
Sweet intergrated WM, KDE, GNOME, whatever...
The games are already beginning to trickle in;
with server, office package, audio/video/imaging and games.... you have a clean sweep of business and home markets. Repeat "virus free and stable" mantra and you have all the people who can't afford a Mac comming to your door.
I can fit out a silent running amd64 system with RAID and double the RAM of a G5 for almost half the cost of the dual G5. God, just give me the OS to run on it.
"give us the tools, and we will finish the job" --churchill
Most people can fit an Athlon processor and heatsink without damaging the core.
I really don't know how people manage to damage the core.
Still, now the core has protection because of the minority of useless people who can't install a heatsink.
So why no link to our reviews. :)
ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
So says The Register.
I've owned four AMD chips going on five. Perhaps my usage patterns differ from yours, but I haven't experienced a CPU failure yet.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
Can't they leave off the serial/parallel and ps2 ports? Removing the floppy connector, ata-133 and on-board audio would be great. They're totally unneccessary in this day and age for me, probably many others too. For those who need them, they should be an option. Even Abit's KV8-MAX3 has ps2 ports, which is a shame.
I'd probably drool and swipe the credit card if I could get an A64 board with 8 DDR slots, PCI Express, dual Gb LAN, 8 usb2 ports and 4 FW800 ports on the backpanel. 8 SATA connectors would sweeten the deal.
"Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
Why would you get a 2 GB total limit from 3 memory slots? I read that as the DIMMs being 2 GB each, which sounds like 6 GB to me.
The Asus and Shuttle boards seem a bit firmer about their memory limits, but they claim a 3 GB limit. And the Asus board uses the same chipset as the MSI - the Via K8T800, which Via says has a 4 GB memory limit - so someone's confused. I know I am.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I know you are a troll, but I enter the fray anyway.
Why should they support heatsinks other than their own? They know nothing about them. And why are you installing said heatsinks? So you can o/c? Thats not covered in the warranty dude. You wanna go inside your wood drill and "overclock" it and expect the company to give you a refund when it breaks?
I am sorry but if you wanna be a fool who can't attach heatsinks properly and burn out your chips for a 4% performance increase or whatever - you can suffer the consequences. Don't expect AMD, or anyone else, to pay for your mistakes.
I don't mind overclockers, but just keep in mind that if the chips are burning out, then there was probably a REASON they didn't come clocked that high and nobody but you should have to pay for doing that.
What are these then?
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Nothing can touch the price/peformance of a dual G5 system.
Go away dummy, you're days are coming to an end.
Sounds like the complaints of another disgruntled overclocker. I suggest you go to an OCA meeting.... OVERCLOCKERS ANONYMOUS Get it out of your system you like to be able fry eggs on your MB, or heat your room. You like it when your screen suddenly freezes or you have to quicly shut the power off before the smoke starts! This kind of destructive behaviour can be unlearned!
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
Gimme a break. His wants in that list more than likely revolve around software he can't use on a Mac.
This is why I stick to standard units of measure, like "megabyte" and "gigabyte". What's the going rate on "a metric asston" of RAM these days for a G5 system? What's the conversion formula to get that figure into megabytes?
Treat yourselves to a spell checker and a clue. Thank you.
And theyre all so good, the p4 guys would get pissed off :)
but seriously, I love your site, I first turned up there in about 1856 looking for information on K6-2's...yes, that long ago, and ive been back ever since. you guys are legends, keep up the good work!
Whatever.
It's nice to see someone (AMD) still willing to stick their neck out and try to compete with Intel.
I've never had an AMD Socket A CPU fail due to heat, or any other reason, and I've built plenty in my spare time for friends, family, and work. Probably not as many as some here, but enough to know I'm doing something right.
Hell, I just upgraded the AMD CPU in my laptop recently, and it's working great too!
I like the competition (love those newer P4s), I think AMD's made a move that will possibly introduce more competition into the mainstream PC industry, and also push the industry into moving forward with commodity 64-bit computing for the masses.
Kudos to AMD, keep up the good work.
Gimme a break. His wants in that list more than likely revolve around software he can't use on a Mac.
Are you saying he wants all that for gaming? Give some examples of other staff he would want that can't be satisfied by a Mac. Gaming is the last stronghold of the PC (and it is still pretty strong - no HL 2 probably ever for the Mac).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
95% of people do. That rounds up to 100%. If you run into someone on the street, chances are they either don't have a computer, or run windows. If you are discussing the viability of a computer product, the question of whether or not it is fully usable when running the operating system almost everyone uses is very relevant.
The difference is, on the Mac there is usable, native 64-bit software. On the PC, if you're using the industry standard OS, you have to run everything in x86 emulation mode since there is no native support.
why, oh why they don't they remove the most fucking stable thing in my fucking PC...
I bet the PS2 keyboard I'm using is older than you bitch.
Imagine a...O wait...never mind
I am not as think as you drunk I am.
Which boards have only single-channel DDR memory? I ask because I wish to avoid buying them :-)
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Stocks are traded for many reasons... one of those is *speculation*. I haven't seen the earnings, which would actually tell you about the financial situation of the company.
There were plenty of dotbombs that were trading at 100+. That didn't mean they were making money or were going to survive. After it was learned that they weren't going to make money and were bleeding money like a stuck pig, investors dropped the stock.
Don't confuse the stock market with real life.
I have never had good luck with AMD products. I know some people really like them, but I rather wait for Intel to put out their version of the 64 bit processor. There isn't any big rush anyways, since there really isn't any software that can take advantage of the 64 bit yet.
It sounds to me more like it's a single DIMM with 2 x 1 Mb (128M x 64) chips on it.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
By stronghold I mean, that a user must go there to perform some task. There are very few areas now that are not covered pretty well in the Mac space. For office style stuff you have the authoritative source (Microsoft) or a host of other smaller choices. For DTP you have Quark and Adobe. For graphics and video of course the choices on the Mac are just as good, and I think FCP is better for most users than anything on the PC.
For programming you have just about any tools you like, XCode especially is a really nice new environment. Java is integrated into the system the way it was meant to be originally when they were thinking of doing desktop Java apps.
What I am saying is that given almost any application space the Mac has either the gold standard programs or really good alternatives. Gaming is the only area where the PC has an absolutely compelling lead - if you are a dedicated PC gamer, no way are you going to be able to live without a PC. I decided I could live without some of the leading edge games (having a console anyway to scratch that itch), bought a Mac a few years ago, and have found no lack of software since then. Almost any hardware you can name now works on the Mac as well, so it's not even like I'm missing out on many cool gadgets (well, there are the Sony Palms...) and Bluetooth is really well supported on the Mac instead of an afterthought.
I really can't think of what else to mention. How about Photoshop CS requiring activation on the PC but not on the Mac?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
HotHarware reviews tend to suck. Make sure to submit your non-sucky reviews to slashdot when you put them up!
Do either of the Athlon 64 series support more than one processor? Or do I have to look towards the opteron for that?
Can't they leave off the serial/parallel and ps2 ports? Removing the floppy connector, ata-133 and on-board audio would be great. They're totally unneccessary in this day and age for me, probably many others too. For those who need them, they should be an option. Even Abit's KV8-MAX3 has ps2 ports, which is a shame.
I'd probably drool and swipe the credit card if I could get an A64 board with 8 DDR slots, PCI Express, dual Gb LAN, 8 usb2 ports and 4 FW800 ports on the backpanel. 8 SATA connectors would sweeten the deal.
"PLEASE wait for better sites to do reviews!!!"
Like Slashdot!!
Um...wait.
Troll!
I have made many systems with the naked core. I haven't killed one yet. But I don't get ham-fisted when installing the heatsink!
What I like about the 64-bit Athlons versus Intel's Itanium architecture is the refusal to buy into Intel's promise of better performance after compilers are modified to accomodate the architectural differences. Bullshit! Everyone must adapt to Intel's changes only because Intel doesn't know how to make processors that execute today's code faster plus meet tomorrow's needs. AMD seems to do that.
Consumers have been through several of Intel's "this would be faster if only compilers were adapted to take advantage of our architecture" only to find that there is no advantage to their architecture. Most of their supposed advantages exist only in intel's manufactuing or design process. They don't represent any advantage to the consumer, only Intel.
Sometimes that doesn't always work well. I have a USB mouse/keyboard adaptor and occasionally under both Linux and Windows the keyboard would disappear. Only a reboot would bring it back, and yes I had it set up properly in the BIOS. So until USB is as stable and dependable as those "legacy" ports? I'll be hanging onto them.
sorry, I don't overclock. (not even with my new P4).
I have had 6 Athlons and a Duron, from Slot A to Socket A (Tbird and XP). The only ones still alive are my Slot A's (which I think r0x) and my XP, due in part because the retailer I got it from was the one who issued the warranty. And I mostly buy boxed versions (except for one of my Slot A's and the XP that came with 3yrs of retailer warranty) and for the record, the socket A's had stock heatsinks while the Slot A, I used one of those huge alpha 7125.
I'll wait until they have a good affordable dual proc mobo before I buy one.
(I'm not rich; I don't buy every stinking new piece of equipment that comes out every month. I just do a one time buy every 2-3 years.)
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
This is just a boring hardware review, and nothing particularly special.
/rant now :)
It only reviews 3 Athlon 64 boards, and there's nothing particularly promising there. What happened to Gigabyte's full-featured board offerings? Or Soltek's budget board? Or Albatron's motherboard? Or any of the other motherboard manufacturers?
I certainly don't consider these the top #3 boards available. More the "top #3 we were able to get our hands on for a review".
Slashdot isn't a crappy hardware review site. This review contains nothing special or particularly interesting.
I could imagine the first wiz-bang Athlon 64 samples being reviewed, but this article is just boring, and outdated, to be called Slashdot material imo.
Umm,
Andypoo.
Is BTX + PCI Express + Liquid cooling + whatever next year's tech marathon will bring to the market. Let's face it, this isn't a good time to buy a new machine, unless you don't want to use it for more than 1 year. Add to this that Athlon 64s are pretty wet ear processors and the boards as well. This is just like when the T-bird were released on the market. Better wait a couple of months, pich up a revised board, or wait at least a full year, pick up a next gen sys.
I don't overclock. Just don't have the budget to go refrigeration. ^_^
One of the last athlons (XP chip) that died on me, also took the board with it.
And this isn't an isolated issue. I've seen SO many people have issues with AMD's especially with heat. (hell, both the super 7 based K6-x's and the Slot A Athlons are better in terms of reliability) Even people who have their system built professionally or a store bought brand (HP, Dell, Gateway, etc.) have had heat issues.
BTW, my K6-3 computer is still running (it's also slightly underclocked), 24/7 and I love it (the board's got 2MB of L3 cache). Now that's something that Intel never did. See, it's not that AMD's technical stuff is bad and neither is Intel, it's just the bureacracy that makes things bad.
If I have to choose between 3 motherboards and a workable powermac G5, I take the G5...
Even if i'm actually getting tired of computers... Even Macs are way too complicate for my casual wab/mail surfing at home...
Really need something simple as a TV (NOT SIMPLE AS A VCR, still can't figure how that possessed beast work) that can hold in the pocket...
God... and i'm a sysadmin... bad luck...
I have had more, including the dead ones.
The Slot A and my K6-3 are the only ones that have lived.
The cartridge made the Slot A more rugged and durable and easier to control. It's weird that AMD didn't find an alternative cartridge method to solve the cost issues of the cartridge based cpu's. One possible way is to have a cartridge that takes socket cpus so the consumer has only one cartridge to get and it makes certain that the cpu is protected; no need for the motherboard to have throttling features as the cartridge will do it. Plus if cartridges can be customized, more cache, dual socket, etc. And added benefit is dust protection (or pet hair).
I'm pretty sure I've heard this post a few times before, or there are a lot of butterfinger tinkers out there.
Proud owner of two AMD systems, builder of 5, all of them no issues. Current is 2500Barton OC'd to 3000. Not to mention the 10 servers at work.
I guess it pays to review the motherboards and coolers before you buy them (this makes a ton of difference), and pick out the chips with the lowest thermal output per CPU clock available (less issues later on).
But that's just me.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Intel won't do it for some time because they don't want to make corporate customers feel like idiots for buying Itanium or Itanium 2.
Intel's 64-bit processor will be hotter and slower clock for clock, and will use YET ANOTHER x86 instruction set extension, if ever implemented. (I would be presently surprised if they also supported amd64 extensions, however).
Yuck.
And if you don't think there isn't and 64-bit software out there right now (there is a ton!), or software that needs to take advantage of it (MATLAB anyone? DRAGGING THEIR FEET), then you'll probably NEVER need it for the next 5 years.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
actually, the core protection is because OEMs asked for it. They are the ones who have to worry the most about crushed core syndrome since it hits their bottom line.
And if you've ever REALLY looked at the cpu's sponge thingies, some times it can be uneven and since they sponges aren't stiff enough, it acts like independent suspension; it can tilt.
As for the minority crack, try applying that logic to pharmaceuticals or cars for that matter. Sure, maybe ephedra didn't kill too many ppl if you consider 6 billion in the world.
Words to think about.
that with the stock heatsink?
(as for the 64bit thing, I do agree....just not stoked about it)
Athlon 64 was never speced for multiprocessor, in fact it will probably come out cheaper to build a dual processor Opteron board than a dual processor Athlon 64 board (which doesn't have a chance in hell of being in any other way better). AMD created the Opteron with three HyperTransport buses just for this purpose, and the Athlon 64 is handicapped with only one for the same reason. There are lots of Opteron multiprocessor boards out by now.
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
I, for one, salute AMD. My computer use k6(600 mhz i think) at least i lurve it forevermore. *purr*
I did see registered DDR400 2 GB DIMMs available here, or so they claim. A bit much for your average Athlon64 buyer, as you say, but you ought to be able to get at least 4 GB from two of those, if not 6 GB from all three slots.
There's a dually MSI workstation board that is vague about its total memory limit (Via K8T800, 4 slots, supports 2 GB registered DIMMs, 8 GB total) though I've seen at least one review that suggested it had a 3 GB limit.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
According to some hardware sites the SSE code in Quake 3 didn't work properly for previous AMD motherboards. Considering the game obviously makes very good use of SSE it could mean a big difference if the extensions are working properly for the Athlon64.
No, luck with win2k install (blue screen) XP (didn't like my licence code), so probably need to load some drivers from floppy during install.
Stock RedHat9 was on it for a couple of days, and it worked OK (mainly tar and sftp to clean off the other things on the drive) but only in 32 bit of course. I couldn't work out how to get Gentoo to port from a CD instead of the net, so gave up on that. I don't know whether to put that down to documentation or impatience.
Seems silly to have an AMD64 with a 12 inch mono monitor and an old Olivetti keyboard, but it gets the good stuff when the files are all copied over.
You aren't the only person stuck in the dream for a more efficient motherboard. I want none of what you want on a motherboard and am confident people will agree with me to not want any of my desires on their motherboard. The ISA Legacy design ensures an architecture to be compatible with previous *ware as well as provide a medium for growth. On a modern motherboard, you have The Old mixed with The New.
Look at a simple motherboard of the past 80x286 or 80x386 era, where all the parts are your enemy due to cost constraints and not necessarily efficiency and stability reasons. On the Stability Perspective, if a part becomes defective and can't be removed immediatly then the bad part(s) can and usualy cause undesired affects unto other parts and resources in a non-harmful yet annoying way (Part 15 B of FCC rules...bullshit yada-yada). When defective parts can't be removed, an entire system is often rendered non-operable. I have a suggestion for mtoherboard designers and vendors...
Return to the cheapskate/dark-age of computing! Build a motherboard with only RAM slots, a CPU slot, a BIOS, and 10 PCI slots! Wait, I have a better idea, scratch the previous request...build the motherboard with no integrated circuitry! Give us a breadboard; we'll know what we want on the breadboard and Build(TM) it ourselves! It's been a long time since geeks and consumers have been distinguishable when they rant "I build computer(s)" A real geek uses a soldering iron and a brain, while a consumer goes for the modular pre-assembled devices that connect together like Duplo blocks. Yeah, let the firmament be divided!
Realistically, the old design of motherboards was superior...a Bus with many expansion slots. This will resurrect the market for expansion cards such as those implementing multiple RS232 and RS422 interfaces. It'll also let people build a better Green PC(TM) such as not to have unneeded integrated hardware operating idle.
I can't wait for the Wheat Bread / White Bread flamewar on what the best homebrew breadboards are constructed with.
Secured Party, Without Prejudice, UCC 1-207: Creditor
Cray Picks AMD Chips for New Line
Red Storm System to Offer Supercomputer's Speed
And Low-Cost Components
By DON CLARK
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Cray Inc., which pioneered the market for supercomputers, hopes to blaze another trail with machines based on a new line of microprocessor chips from Advanced Micro Devices Inc.
The Seattle company developed the technology under a $90 million contract with Sandia National Laboratory in New Mexico, which is installing a system dubbed Red Storm that will be one of the most powerful in the world. Cray plans to announce Monday that it also will sell systems based on the Red Storm technology to other customers.
Cray's plans have spurred interest in the scientific community, because the company is addressing a technical bottleneck that has prevented systems based on inexpensive components to be applied to the most demanding computing tasks.
"This is an exciting development," said Horst Simon, director of the National Energy Research Scientific Computing Center in Berkeley, Calif. The center, which provides computing resources for research funded by the U.S. Department of Energy, may consider the Cray machines for its own future requirements, Mr. Simon said. "This type of technology is the correct approach to the current issues in high-performance computing," he said.
The term supercomputer is generally applied to the largest machines available, which are typically constructed from hundreds of microprocessor chips. Cray, the successor to a company formed by the late computer designer Seymour Cray, is known for augmenting those chips with proprietary circuitry that allows the chips to exchange data at very high speed. It sells a machine called X1 that uses a custom-designed microprocessor along with its communications chips.
Another approach, stressing low price over speed, uses standard chips from Intel Corp. or AMD along with circuit boards that are similar to those in personal computers or low-end server systems. Such low-price machines, called clusters, often use the free Linux operating system, further reducing costs.
But clusters aren't suited for some kinds of challenging tasks, because of delays in passing data among the many microprocessors. Wayne Kugel, Cray's program director for the Red Storm project, compares the problem to planning housing and transportation. "The more houses you add near the freeway, the more of a bottleneck you get," he said.
The Red Storm system combines the speed of proprietary supercomputers with low-cost components found in clusters. Cray says it designed communications chips that exchange data at close to the peak speed of AMD's Opteron microprocessor, or 6.4 billion bytes a second. That is about 20 times the speed of connections often used with clusters. The company hasn't set pricing or a precise delivery date, but expects to begin selling the system next year.
Cray's plans are good news for AMD, which is a much smaller player in server systems than rival Intel. But AMD is making some progress with Opteron, which was introduced last spring and competes with a high-end chip called Itanium 2 that Intel has been selling for high-end applications.
Oct 27.
The problem is multi-faceted. Entry level is a little higher in the Mac world, and the bigger problem is that people just don't understand what advantages they would get by switching. It's rather hard to explain because all the most pleasing things are seemingly little things, that reduce a lot of stress in day to day use of the system. I know what I'm talking about here because I use XP all day for work and have a Powerbook at home. Sometimes I swear Windows is determined to annoy you for no reason. I have felt the same from 98 to NT to XP (pretty much skipped W2K era) and really I think things are worse with XP.
Another issue is that a lot of the sort of people that are early adopters are, in fact, really into games - so the PC having a stronghold in that one area really slows down general adoption more than you would think.
The biggest issue is perhaps corporate support. The great thing about PC's is that you can get all this free software from work (which most people seem to do from my observation). So switching to the mac entails even more cost for a lot of people since they can no longer steal the software they need! And of course people will be comfortable buying what they use at work because they don't have to learn as much.
So really, it's pretty incredible that Apple is growing as much as it is given the number of things which work against it being adopted by anyone. I am seeing an increasing number of iBooks/Powerbooks at work and often people drop buy telling me they are thinking about buying a mac for the next computer. Using iTunes for Windows might help people feel even a little more comfortable, and get word of mouth to people directly instead of percolating through the traditional power users who are so reluctant to switch.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
your not a sysadmin you just manage them.
When reading the title I thought "Shit! AMD already have 3 problems with the Athlon 64". Shouldn't it be "Athlon 64 Motherboard Triple _Treat_ Round-Up"?
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
"how many AMD cpus have you killed?"
....well... is non-existent."
I've installed hundreds without having damaged a single one. The ones I've seen die in the several years I've worked with them were always due to fan failure or power problems. I've seen at least two Celerons suffer heat death also.
" what good is performance if it's more fragile than a paper chain tethering a bull in a china shop? If it's dead, performance
That's quite the large 'if'. Are you installing your CPUs with a hammer? I've had plenty of mishaps installing CPUs before, but never had one damaged because of it. I'm truly at a loss as to just what it is you could possibly be doing to have so many problems.
"And the warranty policy about thermal grease and non-stock heatsinks, well...that's just bs."
This is like saying that Ford should warranty repair the engine in your 2003 Mustang after you replaced the motor oil with Diet Coke following a reading from some website. The warranty states that the product will perform correctly under normal operating conditions. That you have altered said conditions inately voids any warranty. Any warranty work provided thereafter is simply a curtousy. Your misuse of AMD's (or anyone else's) product is not AMD's problem. Either adhere to the warranty conditions or do not expect to receive warranty work; it's that simple.
"Besides, I like my P4 that has thermal throttling that works and responds fast to the temp."
This is such a lousy idea. Let me ask you this: when your CPU is overheating, what will you do to correct it? The correct answer is: nothing. Why? Because your CPU gives no indications of overheating. Assuming you have an issue with your CPU fan, your computer will simply seem slower and slower over time, making you think it's time for an upgrade. On an AMD or PIII system, the computer crashes when there is a problem. This is known as a 'symptom'. If you do not have any symptoms, chances are that you will never solve the problem because you simply won't know about it. I'd rather have chronic crashing which leads me to the source of the problem than to have some vague problem such as: 'it's running slowly'.
"Of course, I don't plan to abandon AMD cpus forever; I'm just more cautious and less enthused about new products. (I still have my dual athlon XP->MP (Barton core) project in the works but it's been slow)."
Again with your CPU modification. You expect to be able to modify the product yet continue to receive warranty assurance on it. Let me let you in on a little secret: if you modify your P4 in any way, you will void your warranty - just like an Athlon.
"Hell, I've love to have that P4 3.2 with the 2MB of L2 cache."
I'd love to have one as well, if such a creature existed. Unfortunately, if it did, it would cost an enormous amount of money. Thus, Intel's compromise was to remark a Xeon with 2MB L3 as a run-of-the-mill Pentium 4 EE (Extremely Expensive). On the other hand, I could buy an Athlon64 FX-51 for about $150 less and get far better performance which will increase over time as applications are better optimized.
And just so you don't think I won't address the quality issue, I'd be happy to do so. Just take a look here. Recall after recall, bug after bug, Intel proves beyond any doubt that good marketing erases years of ineptitude.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Excuse me for not being interested but I want my 8-way Athlon MB please, that way I can stick a new CPU into it when I can afford one.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Here's an (abbreviated) article (German!): http://www.heise.de/ct/03/22/146/
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
Thanks guys. We also have the first DDR400 cas 2 benchmarks with Athlon 64 FX. Previously registered DDR400 would only run at Cas 2.5. :) We compare with the same OCZ memory at Cas 2 and Cas 2.5.
ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
n/t
I'm waiting for the Second Coming and Christmas.
Stick Men
You should have a look at the Opteron, dual boards are available and there are some 4way things too I think.
Haven't seen any 8way systems yet, they would probably need more than one motherboard anyway...
The only one I lost was on an Abit KT133A board (I don't remember the model) but combined with an orb cooler I killed my first 1GHz processor (it was a dark, dark day). I was tired and frustrated and the damn thing didn't fit (incidently I killed the mobo too) and I tried to force it. My own damn fault really. I never understood the whole T-bird/Flipchip design. I liked my old K6-3 with it's shield on the top and I'm glad to see AMD's gone back to them.
Interesting. Up until a couple months ago I had a K6-3 450 machine and I had it underclocked too, down to 400 since it ran hot. Tyan board with 2 megs of cache. That little bastard was quite the workhorse! I'm all Athlon now, but I keep that processor around for good luck. (And it was hard to get a hold of! Of course I still have my k5 PR133 since it was in the first machine I ever built myself. *sniff* *sniff*)
chris tom is a cocksucker though ...isn't he???
Just curious, does anyone know if the AGP / PCI buses on these babies are 64bit? It seems to me that they are just the same old slots as the older motherboards. Wouldnt a true 64bit mobo require a radically different AGP/PCI slots in order to take advantage of the added bus width?
... any comments ?
or maybe im just plain wrong
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
The Opteron (socket 940) is the sledgehammer cpu. It has (3)Three hypertransport links that are used for i/o channels (such as PCI) and inter-processor links, and a dual channel (128 bit) memory interface. There are currently three flavors of Opteron cpu's. The 100 series does NOT support intercpu communication on it's hypertransport links, so it is a SINGLE processor cpu. The 200 series supports interprocessor communication on a single hyperchannel link, it is a DUAL processor cpu. The 800 series supports interprocessor communication on all three hyperchannel links and is an EIGHT WAY SMP processor. (There is no 400 series processor, but such a beast would be possible if AMD chose to do so).
The Athlon64 (clawhammer)cpu has a SINGLE hyperchannel link and a single wide (64bit) memory channel. The Athlon64-FX is a modified series 100 Opteron cpu. It has a single hyperchannel link, but a dual wide (128bit) memory channel. This cpu is probably best considered a member of the sledgehammer family. If you are considering going with the 'FX' keep an eye on pricing. You might be able to get a true Opteron cheaper. Future 'FX' chips will be housed in a different socket which will preclude using Opteron cpus on the same motherboard.
OK...get it?
When you run 3 512MB dimms, the Athlon64 drops to PC1600 speeds. That said, the P4 drop in performance is even worse. You really need the Opteron /Athlon 64 FX-51 to take advantage of huge amounts of memory.
Unless you have a NFORCE 2 MCP+SS Board your SPDIF is only surround on pre-encoded surround sources, aka DVDs and AC3 files. No video game i know of supports SPDIF output in surround, unless its through A NForce 2. Did not know that, and now have a wonderful digital stero output from games, and the only surround I get is Prologic 2 "enhancements".
i heard XML is the language of the future!
so i was wondering how fast the new 64bit architectures can compile XML code?!
Debian tests "frozen" for months and months before releasing, since they don't have to keep their latest release hidden as an incentive to get "subscribers" to support their business.
If 6-month-old software just isn't l337 enough for you, even packages which go into "testing" have to sit for at least a few weeks with no critical bugs.
That, and Lucky Goldstar has always been a manufacturer of...bargain products. I paid extra for my Plextor CD-RW, but it rips flawlessly and can read CDs which choke other drives.
A real benefit of always staying one step behind bleeding edge is cost. PC components which are sold in "grades" (such as speed in mhz) have always had a point where the price jumps up for increasingly less of a performance gain. Buy just below the jump, and you'll be happier later.
[I still remember buying the K6 166 while my friend bought the 233 for a lot more money. The 233 was an anomaly that run at a much higher (and hotter) voltage. I was able to clock my 166 at 210, and it still ran cooler. Plus, with a faster bus speed (83 vs. 66) it actually beat the 233 in some cases. Of course, overclocking isn't nearly as worthwile these days, especially if you run Linux.]
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
It's a thermal engineering thing, and actually Intel started that (by flipping the chip, you get direct contact with the heat sink, instead of having to pass the heat through the poorer-conducting ceramic package that CPUs used to use). However, nobody seems to complain about the number of Intel chips they've busted; I think it's just a bias, or maybe because fewer Intel customers are going to attach ginormous heat sinks to their CPUs. Anyway, they also started the move back to using metal heat spreaders.
Nobody buy the shuttle board. Shuttles burned me one time too many and I cant recommend any product they make.
Nathan Friedly
I agree with most of your points, except the one about the thermal throttling; that's simply good engineering. Remember, engineers design things to prevent stupid people from hurting themselves. When you're working on a 50 page paper, would you rather your computer inexplicably slow down, or crash and lose all your work since your last save, or even worse burn up?
Perhaps it could pop-up a scary warning message to tell you what's happening (I think there's software that will do it, and the computer inept/fearful will always listen to any sort of scary message), but to call this feature unnecessary is like saying anti-lock brakes are unnecessary, because a good driver using proper technique won't lock up the brakes to begin with.
" No, there hasn't been any money in building boxes in a LONG time (like 5-6 years)."
Well I guess that explains why all those mom n' pop white box stores are going out of business. They haven't been making money for 5 or 6 years now.
Why not grab yourself a Compaq Proliant? The MB has four Pentium Pro's. The memory board (with plenty of room) is seperate and directly above the main MB (right angles), and the hot-swappable PCI bus is the way it should be on the other side (mounted horizontally for easy access at the top). There's two fans with diverter for the MB, and two PSUs hot-swappable. The front left side has plenty of room for vertically mounted swappable SCSI drives, and the right side has plenty of room for anything you might want to add i.e. CDROM, Floppy, etc.
The only disadvantage is the size of the case. (dishwasher size), but I bet it would spank the ass of most consumer systems.
maybe more ppl buy amd's, thus more ppl with dead cpus even if the percentage is the same.
Because your CPU gives no indications of overheating.
never heard of MBM?
Thats what counts.
I thought slashdotters loved engineering & style over simply brute forcing.. doesn't that win brownie points anymore?
Here we go again, with the assumptions. Did I say I modified the said dead cpus? Now if replacing a dying fan (was making bad bearing noises), does that constitute "modifying" in your book?
As for the oil thing, hell no, but if Ford voids the warranty for me using non-Ford motor oil (quakerstate or penzoil or royal purple for that matter), even if the specs match the owner's manual, then there's an issue. Of course, I would expect them to have a recall if the infamous exploding tank issue "pops" up (like the Crown Vics).
And no, I myself have not had any cpus, AMD or otherwise, recent or in the past die because of a crushed core but the possibility of it is there, more so if the ceramic core is exposed.
been there, done that.....luckily, I saw it coming (hot summer days) and got a big box fan for the whole computer.
now with throttling, you should be able to tell if it's throttling just by looking at your system properties (it reports the clock cycle).
I am actually not too familiar with the high-end CAD design space, so I am not too sure how the following programs compare, but I did find these:
Pro/Concept 2.0 (only just coming out to be sure)
CADENCE
Solidworks Licence server is running on OS X, which would aty least enable them to consider a port - and there are petitions calling for them to do a port.
The people making Catia appear to have some bits working on OS X (C++ component library).
This site looks to have some cool Mac related CAD info.
I think that overall, the release of the G5 will convince a number of high-end companies to port to the Mac as the system architechure is really a great improvement.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
nostaglic.
I have my ol' AMD 486DX4 somewhere.
"never heard of MBM?"
Someone using a temperature monitor will have little use for throttling. If your fan is dying and your CPU begins to overheat, you'll see the warning long before the computer crashes and have the opportunity to fix the problem. My problem with simply throttling without a built-in warning of some sort is that most users will simply go on about their business without ever knowing their CPU has a problem. In the mean time, they're burning up the silicon and seeing a slowdown in computing speed. If I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I'd surmise that Intel was using this to sell CPU upgrades.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
"the thermal throttling; that's simply good engineering."
It would be good engineering if there were an unignorable (as in very annoying) warning regarding the overheating problem. As it stands, the user goes on about their business with no idea there's a problem. I mispoke when I said it was a lousy idea. My problem is less with the idea or the technology than with the implementation.
"Perhaps it could pop-up a scary warning message to tell you what's happening (I think there's software that will do it, and the computer inept/fearful will always listen to any sort of scary message), "
Perhaps making the system speaker go nuts, or, with the new voice-enabled BIOSs, having a message that reads something like: "CPU's too hot, fix it now or I'll kill you" - something to that effect - would present a far tastier feature. An improvement would be to temporary shut down parts of the CPU (pipelines, registers, etc) that are most severely overheated. Even at the lower clock frequency, you're going to cook some silicon seeing as the CPU was overheated to begin with.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
"Did I say I modified the said dead cpus?"
Not specifically, though you've already talked about replacing the thermal compound and modifying the bridges of an AthlonXP for use in a dual-CPU system.
"Now if replacing a dying fan (was making bad bearing noises), does that constitute "modifying" in your book?"
In my book, I would say it depends whether the heatsink and fan you're using as a replacement are reasonably similar in design and cooling ability to the stock cooling unit. If you're replacing a stock HSF with a goofy looking Golden Orb, then yes, I'd say that's a significant modification. That being said, the warranty specifically states that you void it when you use a cooling unit not provided. Intel's warranty has similar language. Basically, they don't want to be held responsible for decisions that are out of their control. If you stuck a Socket 7 cooling device on your Athlon, do you still think AMD should be held responsible for what happens to it?
"As for the oil thing, hell no, but if Ford voids the warranty for me using non-Ford motor oil (quakerstate or penzoil or royal purple for that matter), even if the specs match the owner's manual, then there's an issue."
In this case, "Ford" is providing (free of charge) motor oil which lasts longer than the 'car' and is specifically tested to function properly with that particular engine. Ford cannot be held responsible for what an untested, unapproved oil does to their engine. This is why they tell you that the warranty exists only so long as you use the provided materials to maintain the product. You're saying that having specifically ignored the warranty conditions, you're upset that the warranty was void as per the warranty itself. Basically, you're angry that the warranty did what it said. Check your Intel warranty - it's essentially the same thing.
"And no, I myself have not had any cpus, AMD or otherwise, recent or in the past die because of a crushed core but the possibility of it is there, more so if the ceramic core is exposed."
So you're complaining about a theoretical possibility which you've never experienced? On that note, I'm pretty upset with my car's manufacturer, because my car won't start up if a meteorite slams into the engine. What kind of shoddy workmanship is that?! Seriously though, I have never figured out how it is that so many people have damaged their CPUs. It's not exactly rocket science, and there's no real skill to it at all. Put the CPU in, put the HSF on top, push the metal clamp down. I honestly don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that a monkey could be trained to perform this task without causing damage (following training, not during). The real complaint here is that AMD didn't protect its CPUs from the masses of ignorant and stupid people who are jacks of all trades; masters of none. For that, AMD, like Intel, is guilty. Between bent pins, overheated CPUs, globs of conductive thermal grease connecting random bridges, and people who still don't have a surge protector and continue using the computer during thunderstorms, no CPU is truly safe, regardless of its engineering. On this front, I'd have to say that VIA's C3 embedded CPUs offer the best protection. Basically, with the CPU embedded and the HSF already mounted by a non-moron, there's not a whole lot left for the user to screw up.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Not too sure how you managed to get so many bad processors, but I do need to clean the heatsink and fan assembly every two months because it's in a carpeted room with 2 cats. If the fan stops for a minute, the chip will die. Sorry about your luck.
You'd have to be an idiot to round up like that, which you probably are. 95.5 may round up to be 96%, but rounding %95 percent to %100 is just windows luser type idiocy in it's extreme.
All but one machine has used an AMD retail HSF.
1.> I use Linux at work, and Linux/XP on my personal laptop. I have no issues with either my work machines, or my laptop.
2.> Valid point about the games.
3.> You'd need to see the licensing agreements before making the blanket statement about Wintel users at work steal software for home use. Every place I've worked was licensed so employees COULD install a copy of whatever was on their PC at work at home (so they could work at home, of course).
4.> Apple works against itself, they don't need any help from the rest of us. It's just an unattractive system (as a whole) to the majority of PC owners/users.
Apple needs to rethink their product lines, their OS, and their marketing. Seriously, none of those things appear to be working well enough for Apple at this point in time.
I have great respect for Apple's latest hardware offerings. I just wish they'd package everything so I'd be halfway interested in one of their systems, and could justify spending the extra $$$.
Forgot to say the Via SATA interface works on install of Mandrake AMD64 Beta3. This board gives you four SATA interfaces.
What a troll!
Since when do you need support on your CPU? Just because the company goes bust, which I doubt is going to happen, doesn't make the CPU's you've purchased suddenly bad.
What troll. What dolt.