Slashdot Mirror
Evaporation Prevention Using Molecular Blankets
Makarand writes "According to this article in the
New Scientist, a Canadian company is testing a
technology to reduce water evaporation from reservoirs by
spreading an ultra-thin blanket of organic molecules on the surface to block the escape
of water molecules into the air.
Trials conducted in India and Morocco showed between 30 and 45 per cent reduction in evaporation
using this method. However,
the long term ecological effects of reducing evaporation in lakes or reservoirs is not yet clear
as evaporation prevention can increase water temperatures and affect the exchange rates of gases
such as oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide."
won't this increase the algae population ?
the problem with water is distribution not evaporation
see with this level of molecular technology, we can easily tap into the.. hey! whats that over there?
I rally shouldn't post after reading PA.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Scientists working to stop evaporation accidentally unleash it on the world's ocean. This causes weather around the world to go crazy, and only a group of scientists doing something bizarre can fix it.
That's not a environment destroying oil spill, its a high tech water evaporation prevention film.
same result, you get a nice film on the surface and damages the local ecology plus you can get it from your local gas station
how about spending money on better infrastructure or de-salination plants first ? then you wouldnt need to stop evaporation, remember 80% of the globe is covered with H2O so evaporation is not the problem
Why do we have to control evaporation on large bodies of water already ?
United States of America, good ol' backers of world peace.
However, the long term ecological effects of reducing evaporation in lakes or reservoirs is not yet clear as evaporation prevention can increase water temperatures and affect the exchange rates of gases such as oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide."
Don't forget possible changes to the weather. For instance, there are a number of areas whose climate and micro-climate are influenced by nearby bodies of water.
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If it also slows down the rate that water can give off heat energy as well as slow the evaporation rate, this would be great for extending the usable season for outdoor pools.
If this prevents evaporation, does it also increase the surface tension of the water? That could make diving into a treated lake a painful proposition.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Just wait until they make a version that replicates.. so you can pour 1 cup in a lake and in a few days it covers the lake....
Then wait until someone pours a cup of this into the oceans.
Then wait when it stops raining and we all die.
YAY
What's the difference between this "new" system for evaporation prevention and the Liquid Solar Blankets sold in Pool Supply stores? This tech has been used for years!! Course this company has probably jacked up the pricing since this is supposedly "new" once again...
I would think that if water cant get out kinetically then air and nitrogen cant get in. so you can kiss all fish and algea goodbye.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I'm sure they could use this in the Ural Sea (or whats left of it). Could animals drink through it? If they could I can imagine this being very useful for the thirsty animals during dry seasons in Africa's national parks.
However, the long term ecological effects of reducing evaporation in lakes or reservoirs is not yet clear as evaporation prevention can increase water temperatures and affect the exchange rates of gases such as oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide.
This seems like a pretty critical area of the research. If the water becomes stagnant and full of algae or dead fish, what good is it?
This could have unforeseen effects on the local ecosystem.
Unforseen? Maybe if you have your eyes and ears taped shut? Forgive me for being cynical, but it seems so many scientists are out for a little fame and don't see the big pictures.
Evaporation has failed!
Call me silly... but, isn't water evaporation part of the cycle of weather? Take out one part and the machine doesn't work. I hope that this "technology" is not used on a large scale. The implications concerning local weather patterns could be devastating.
Your actions in life will determine your children's future.
I say Saran Wrap. What's the big difference?
Last time I checked, something called "rain" is made possible by evaporation from lakes, resiorvoirs, etc. Wouldn't preventing evaporation prevent rain? Rain happens to be a great way to irrigate fields, and is very good for our environment...
"73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
This would be great for those of us in the intermountain west.
Our reservoirs lose tons of water over the long hot dry days of summer. Add that to the 5 year drought we're in....and it'd help enormously. Of course, that would probably mean boats and jetskis would be off limits during that time, but having water is more important that having fun.
In case there are people that like to be warned, goatse troll...
"73% of quotes on the Internet are made up" -Ben Franklin
...by spreading an ultra-thin blanket of organic molecules on the surface to block the escape of water molecules...
Are they trying to place a positive ecological spin on oil spils/slicks? Oil is organic, and it does prevent the evaporation of the underlying water.
I recall seeing/reading elsewhere that a few millileters is enough to create a minute slick over several square kilometers.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
THIS
We studied this in school. They use large alcohols as the skin (as covered in this article). The point is that it's usually distribution rather than storage that is the problem. (In Melbourne.au the annual evaporation rate is 3m - on a shallow 30m deep dam this means that it would take 10 years to evaporate the water away, assuming none is added. I have some old papers here from the 60s by the then Melbourne Metropolitan Board of Works about this idea.
:) but more importantly, the water is actually cleaned by the action of anerobic bacteria on the water.
If you are having problems keeping water due to evaporation then you need to choose a better dam site.
More interesting is a proposal to store stormwater underground. Firstly, the land area and evaporation issues disappear (to be replaced by similar issues
There is no need to deter people from a perfectly good mirror. The mirror is fine people, ignore this troll.
Wait, you mean a big media company is not going to kill off a franchise? OMG!!! Wow!!!
Stop playing with the weather and thinking you are God. We have Americans for that.
Easy knee-jerkers, it was a joke.
spells "flamebait" wrong.
How is this different than having suntan lotion come off in the pool?
Isn't there alot of data on that?
Geez! What are these researchers thinking about.
Then next thing you know, Exxon will be dumping oil from their tankers to mitigate "global evaporation".
From a trolls point of view, that image must never get old!
Neo is not the "One". He gives in to the dark side. However, he unknowingly fathers a child with Trinity, who will eventually defeat his father.
Flexible Solutions
This might also be useful for refineries/chemical plants, etc. that maintain large atmospheric pressure reservoirs of dihydrogen monoxide for fire-fighting purposes.
Ah, just what I need for my new swimming pool...on Arrakis!
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Sudden-death world conquest and no penalties. You didn't think this hockey thing was just a game, did you?
In Soviet Russia, water evaperates you!
Remember... ZG9uJ3QgZm9yZ2V0IHRvIGRyaW5rIHlvdXIgb3ZhbHRpbmU=
My first thought was the same as yours -- oil on water and asphyxiating fish. But that might not be the case.
They claim that their technique produces a monolayer on the surface. That's a layer one molecule thick. This would easily be disturbed by the slightest motion or breeze. The tiniest ripple would create local openings. In fact, this is probably why their reduction in water loss is so small -- only tens of percent. Lots of water gets out. This implies that lots of gases could also get in. (i.e., gas exchange with the atmosphere would perhaps be inhibited by tens of percent amount.)
Teen1: Oh, here comes that cannonball guy. He's cool.
Teen2: Are you being sarcastic, dude?
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"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Did they say what kind of thermal conductivity this layer would have? If it was low, then try this on for size:
While having this layer of molecules on the surface, rig up an array of thermoelectric modules (Peltier elements) to conduct the heat that would be trapped on the water and use it to generate enough electricity to be able to drive the water pumps or whatever. I don't know how feasable this would be though since from what I hear the efficiency isn't the greatest in the world...
No beowulf cluster jokes please...
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Seriously, do you think that is an actual street in Utah of all places. You are an idioit.
Okay, this sounds to me like vapor ware.
Ok, sorry, had to...but really, doesn't this sound like the setup for a sci-fi world saving movie where the original cause of the disaster was something incredibly stupid a scientist (the one equipping the rescuers) did?
"You bred the aliens on Earth?"
"Doctor! You designed the Neutronomiconimeter Canon!?!"
"My god! Humans spread the oil on the ocean, causing the sea monsters to attack from Atlantis!?!"
"Life's funny sometimes." "And sometimes it isn't." --Cat's Cradle
It's kind of annoying that these days, when any new technology arrives, it is subject to a ridiculously paranoid environmentalism filter. Resevoir water is about .0001% of all water on the planet and people are worried about gas exchange and the temperature of it! Enough to deprive populations in the developing world of clean drinking water? I was suprised that the cost of the system wasn't mentioned in the header, only the environmental impact.
From the referenced article: "... saving the water costs less than half the price of replacing it..."
That means that the water-saving layer is VERY expensive, if it is only two molecules thick.
Then you can make the environment human-friendly AND have fun at the same time. Heck, put it in your snowmobile, and then the runoff will be pre-treated. It'll be part of the new environmental enhancement program.
I really wouldn't want them to get to low and I end up drinking some of this goo. Might mess up some of the plumbing ya know?
This idea has been around for ages here in Australia (at least 20 years). It never was adopted to my knowledge.
Mmm..... Organic molecules.....
Don't they already sell stuff like this for swimming pools?
Dump some chemical in the water, it creates a layer at the top to prevent evaporation.
Oh well, exploiting something known for more profit...
-Grump.
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
Man I would like to see a beowulf cluster of these
by spreading an ultra-thin blanket of organic molecules on the surface
Isn't this an Oil Slick, some complanies have been doing it for years.
Oops ultra-thin obviously, given oil prices and shortages, they cant afford the old style heavy slicks any more.
Come'on mods.
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.
So - can we now have longer snow seasons (Here in NZ we've got about a fortnight before closure) ... or how about preventing the ice caps from turning into giant island-drowning, ship marauding bergs?
[ Me being the software programmer come snowboarder - not attempting to be a meterologist, ofcourse ]
In the book the film is caused by pollution, but it is almost impossible to disperse and remains resistant to the waves and man-made attempts to break up the film. In the end, humanity ends up clinging to life by the edges of the ocean, each person with their own solar-powered desalination plant.
A sobering thought if you've read the book. Imaging what whould happen if this stuff got loose?
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I claim prior art on this technique. When I was ten years old I came up with a scheme to cover all the world's oceans with polythene in order to stop sea water from evaporating, and hence put an end to rain once and for all.
I therefore demand that the patent rights and all monies earned by way of royalties be transferred to me. You owe me 699 pounds for every occasion on which you have thought of the idea or a vaguely similar idea. This is per instance, not per document. Postal orders will be accepted.
"However, the long term ecological effects of reducing evaporation in lakes or reservoirs is not yet clear as evaporation prevention can increase water temperatures and affect the exchange rates of gases such as oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide."
Yes and lets not wory about the small criters in our water ways. These resevoirs are filled with natice fish that are already under threat of other introduced fish and over fishing.
If we want to preserve water we must first look at building the infrastructure to take water far inland where as know in many contrys they use open channel irrigation where ALOT of water evapourates. I've heard that only 20% of the water in open irrigation actualy absorbs into the ground.
Also we must also make it compulsory for water saving devices, such as flow restricters.
An interesting thing i saw on today tonight a while ago whilst in the middle of the last Aussie drought (which we're still pretty much in) was a guy who was using this left over laundry water and sink water and other waters to water his grass and gardins! Its that type of thinking thats going to save water. Things like that should be made compulsory. Some people with plenty of water such as the USA may be laughing, but this our local water resevour was bello 10% and maybe have infact reached 2% or 1%. Its backup resevour was at around 40%, so you could say that there was a few very nervouse people round!
I agree, this seems like a good idea. but one step at a time please!
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I thought they called that "algae"?
Clear, Dark Skies
People wanting more info should STF(ree)W for Irving Langmuir or Langmuir-Blodgett monolayers, e.g.,
http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/chemistry/ institutes/1992/Langmuir.html
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buy use of georgewellian fuddite corepirate nazi devises of debt & destruction?
that's not as far fetched as the ?pr? ?firm? hypenosys execrable is trying desperately to persuade US.
consult with/trust in yOUR creator.... get ready to see the light.
mynuts won: censoring/ignoring/criticizing/pretending is no means towards solution.
"It's pioneering work," adds Moshe Alamaro, an atmospheric scientist and an expert on monolayer applications at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "They are the first commercial enterprise using monolayers [to retard evaporation]," he says. Oh... Solar Fish
The consequences of _accidentally_ doing this are explored in Michael Heim's excellent novel "The Waters of Aswan" - published in 1972. I guess it's more "thriller" than "SF" in genre, and I think it's out of print, but well worth checking out. It's a rich stew of Middle East Arab/Israeli geopolitics and high-tech action.
This novel was written before the October war (what the Israelis call the Yom Kippur War), let alone all this 21st-century War On Terrorism fiddle-faddle. Yet it's still minty-fresh. I won't give away the final scene, but it's quietly chilling - almost an anticlimax. I had a few sleepless nights thinking about it when I was living in Cairo a few years back.
Oops, prior art over there at the Illinois State Water Survey, way back from the late 60's/early 70's. Patent held by Dick Semonin (later retired as Chief of the Survey) and two others (don't recall... it's been 12 yrs since I was scientist there.) We had boxes and boxes of the stuff in the attic of Bldg 6, the old q-hut out at the airport next to the meteorological radars... Probably still is, too.
It came in small packets which could be tossed onto a lake/pond; it was intended to reduce the water loss from livestock ponds. (Gotta keep the cows juicy.) Consisted of a lipid soaplike organic; cows didn't seem to mind. Some farmers do toss in a half-cup of Tide for the same purpose...
History repeats itself as this concept is re-invented every 10 years or so. It turns out that evaporation has some exponential value depending on wind. Even a slight breeze with mix up the air/water surface layer and evaporation goes up greatly. More breeze and the water start to become "choppy". Thin oil slicks get pushed aside by the wind and/or mixed up in the "chop". This idea looks good on the SURFACE but on DEEPER thought DOESN'T HOLD WATER.
I'm curious why this had to be tested in India and Morocco. I don't know if it's the case here, but I get really sick of things being tested in far away places, apparently because the lives of the people who live there are not valued as high as those of westerners. Remember Mururoa?
Didn't we already try this with the Exxon-Valdez?
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
Matrix incest slash fics coming soon!!!
he used the words dinkwad and bitch. Clearly, this is more needed on /. (Note sarcasm)
Imagine the condoms you could make....
Racism is the result of projected self-hatred.
A racist cannot face or admit to himself how much he hates himself. So his subconscious projects this hatred and general lack of self-esteem and self-worth onto others.
This is why the most racist of all people are poor American caucasians, along with certain wealthy American caucasians who only inherited their wealth and position but who know damned well deep in their hearts that if their ancestors hadn't handed them money on a silver platter, they would be trailer trash, too.
One reason why poor American caucasians hate themselves is because they fall for the "if you are poor, its your own fault" that the race-baiting GOP trumpets as its philosophy. The poor caucasian then faces an inner conflict between wanting to believe his beloved GOP philosophy and not wanting to face that he is a "failure" according to his own GOP dogma. The psychological conflict is neatly resolved by projecting all anger at his own failure in life onto the Other, symbolized by the stereotype Black Man.
Another reason for such American caucasian self hatred is the distorted philosophy of the majority religion Christianity, which teaches that we must seek a Savior, instead of teaching people to stand up for themselves. We are despicable sinners, with absolutely no power to help ourselves. We are left with the only option of accepting our complete inadequecy and begging for forgiveness. In psychological and logical terms, this is an institutionalized way of brainwashing people into enslavement. This process however, can only result in much repressed anger, which -again- is projected onto others, this time onto "enemies" of Christianity (because the Christian could never face the fact that his mind and spirit has been enslaved by much beloved but also demeaning and oppressive religion!) Islam carries the same inner process.
This is why extremist Muslims like Osama can preach violence and hatred EXACTLY as extremist Christians preach violence and hatred (by advocating the placment of nuclear devices under the US State department, or shooting abortion doctors in their homes, through kitchen windows...)
Don't get me started on Jewish extremism. It is the fountainhead and touchstone of all modern racial hatred and bloodthirsty zealotry.
The violence in our world does not result from too little religion, but too much.
Humanity was far more virtuous during Hellenistic times than it is now after the spread of Judeo-Christian based false-religions.
Who the hell modded this down? It was an actual goatse troll, and I clicked on the link -shudder- WTF?
Sounds like a neat description of an oil spill to me!
Petroleum byproducts are organic.
YUMMY!
far far more water is lost through leaky watermain systems. investing money in maintaining infrastructure would be far more effective.
For Example in Montreal Canada, one of the largest cities in Canada, 40% of their drinking water is lost before it reaches the customers through leaky watermains!
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Will good old corn oil do the same? I used to use it to insulate capacitors made with salt water - it prevented the ring of corona around the pickle jars. I suppose it may reduce evaporation too.
Oil layers are already commonly used to reduce evaporation in major reservoirs. Heck, oil is a mixture of hydrocarbons, so it even qualifies as an organic molecule.
Wow, how fucking cool!!
I can go down to my local pool store and buy a trippy little rainbow fish that does the same thing - leaves a microthick film on the pool to reduce evap and keep temperature warm.
Wow...scientists are so smart, studying things that already exist and have been proven to work..
Nothing to see here move along..
there's no need to develop this technology - just ask the Fremen how they are doing it...
OK, so we prevent all evaporation... Then we have no clouds... no rain... a huge ocean and all land mass is a desert. Nice!