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Putting Novell's SuSE Purchase In Perspective

An anonymous reader writes " The editors over at NewsForge.com have combined their efforts to put today's big news about Novell's purchase of SUSE in perspective: what the news means in business terms and to the Linux community, today and in the future. A good read that includes quotes from industry insiders, IRC inhabitants, and NewsForge.com readers." Another reader writes "This is a good analysis piece about how Linux has become Novell's lifeline, especially since NetWare's been dying...and post-Ximian."

35 of 331 comments (clear)

  1. Why would Novell ever want to buy SuSE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    All they need is to revoke SCO's UNIX license and all of Linux companies become Novell's property automatically.

  2. The real motivation by faldore · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They acted like it was no big deal, but...

    (from article) "Yes, it was admitted there might be some marketing opportunities caused by Red Hat's recent "end of life" declaration for some of its products."

    My guess is that this has more to do with the decision to buy than they are admitting to.

    1. Re:The real motivation by rushfan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I totally agree that it has to do with RedHat moving away from the home user market. I admit that I loved RedHat's personal Linux, and bought many copies of it (at the stores and from them directly), and never "wasted their time" with support from them. I bought it because I liked supporting them. I haven't looked at SuSE in a while, although I think I will now. I like the "ease of use/install/etc" that the packaged linux distros provided for my work machine (since I'd rather just install linux and have it all work, no need to rebuild a kernel or hack around on it). It was nice and easy. I'm sure fedora will be cool too, however I'm not so sure. I'm definately turned off by RedHat's move, I understand that they want to keep making money, however I feel as unimportant to them as a customer as I do using Windows (which is one of the reasons why I like Linux).

      Anyway, Ximian rocks, and hopefully Novell doesn't loose interest in Linux like they did with so many former purchases.

      Hoping for the best --

      Rushfan

    2. Re:The real motivation by jasonditz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In all fairness I doubt they could've whipped this buyout together that quickly. There must've been months of negotiations.

      The RedHat thing might've played into the timing of the announcement, but I'm sure they would've done it either way.

    3. Re:The real motivation by GerryGilmore · · Score: 5, Interesting

      To my mind, there can't be any doubt about it being related to Red Hat. Consider:

      While the average user may not have known about RH's dropping of mainstream Linux (the "hobbyist" version in RH Marketing slides), those closer to the major players have known for many months that this was coming.

      SuSE, not being dummies, must have spotted the tremendous opportunity that this would give them in the North American Linux market.

      All SuSE has to do is to keep a mainstream version alive to keep the market fed for their higher-end versions - as RH *had* been doing, and they have the ability to clean RH's clock for them.

      In case you haven't guessed, I consider RH's move to drop their mainstream versions to be a crucial blunder. But, it's their company......

  3. Is anybody else worried... by wrinkledshirt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is anybody else worried that this might turn into another Corel?

    If Novell's got problems keeping up in terms of IT relevence as it is with its own core product, it could be really nasty if some of that starts to rub off on Suse and Ximian.

    I don't mean to troll. I just liked it better when all these things were separated. I'd rather unification through proper standards (eg: LSB compliance) than through pocketbooks.

    --

    --------
    Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...

    1. Re:Is anybody else worried... by swordboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is anybody else worried that this might turn into another Corel?

      Corel died because Microsoft wanted them to.

      Corel had a great plan but, ultimately, management was bought out by Billy.

      People don't seem to be picking up on this. The same thing happened with Apple and OSX right after Steve Jobs dumped every last share in the company (aside from the single "symbolic" share that he did keep).

      Microsoft owns each and every one of us. If they didn't, we'd have seen them split up a long time ago...

      sigh...

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    2. Re:Is anybody else worried... by StarTux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, this is aimed at more the Enterprise, rather than consumer based software...Corel Linux was before its time and as others have mentioned Microsoft.

      LSB is very likely to continue as SuSE was one of the first adopters of it, but LSB will not bring in more sales staff or profit. I may try calling Novell or emailing them about the LSB as I am sure Novell could push this more strongly.

      IBM gave $50m, to me this is just a nod of approval to the deal.

      Really no comparison to this and Corel.

      StarTux

  4. The best decision that Novell could make by micaiah · · Score: 5, Interesting

    About a year ago I was discussing with my friends this very scenario. It was a great decision on Novell's part, probably IMHO the only thing that could allow them to rebound back to the forefront. If they use Linux (open source) as their desktop rather than relying on Microsoft to be fair players they will be able to make a better product for the desktop.

    I remember when people thought of networking they thought of Novell. I took a Win2k class not to long ago and the only people that knew about Netware was myself, one more person, and the instructor. Hopefully that will change with e-directory on the back end and Linux on the desktop. Although any company isn't 100% idealistic, Novell is far more open standard minded than Microsoft will ever be.

  5. Disclaimer? by Lshmael · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What happened to the standard "Newsforge and Slashdot are both part of OSDN" disclaimer that normally appears at the end of items that reference Newsforge articles?

    1. Re:Disclaimer? by usurper_ii · · Score: 3, Funny

      That will be included in the dupe. Give it an hour or so.

      Thanks

  6. Thoughts by sethadam1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    - If Novell bought Ximian just for Mono, they should open source the Exchange Connector.

    - If Novell intends to still support KDE on SuSE, they should say so quickly.

    - Novell should DEFINITELY keep the desktop distro free. This will be key in infiltration and getting techies involved and informed.

    - Novell should rebrand everything "LinuxWare" in following their NetWare line.

    - NDS on Linux should be a huge priority. A successful, non-piecemeal central authentication system for Linux would be fantastic (yes, I know about PAM + LDAP, etc)

    - A Novell client for Linux (even for 5.x and 6.x) should get official support TODAY.

    - They should learn from the past, and invest in the desktop. That's where they'll sell this to potential customers, as and end to end solution.

    1. Re:Thoughts by miguel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Novell will continue to support KDE on SuSE, distribute its packages and maintain this offering which is a prime choice of people.

      We will also integrate Ximian Desktop into their offering, because it is a more fine-tuned desktop than the default Gnome one, and leverages all the enterprise features we added to it.

      NDS is part of the Linux Software Services stack that was announced for Linux earlier in the year. So do not worry about that.

      Miguel.

    2. Re:Thoughts by bruthasj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And smash YaST, up2date, APT and Yum with Novell ZENworks! Seriously, ZENworks has got to be the best patch pusher I've ever seen. Viruses? Bah! Sendmail holes? Bah! SSH problems? Bah!

      With a click, 1000 computers get the patch and automatically apply it.

    3. Re:Thoughts by adrianbaugh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Only available by FTP and not redistributable does not count as Free in any opensource book that I've read.

      I think you've been misreading your books. The GPL (under which most of SuSE is licensed and which is pretty hot on ensuring distribution) certainly doesn't specify what protocol stuff should be available through - ftp only is fine. They do ask you not to redistribute the CDs or ISOs, but that's okay - they're within their rights to limit redistribution of YaST, which is on the CD, and all the Free stuff is available via ftp and redistributable. There are plenty of SuSE rpms being redistributed on rpmfind, etc. and there is nothing SuSE can do to prevent you redistributing rpms of Free software even if packaged to fit a SuSE distribution.

      There's nothing to prevent SuSE making money from Free software and (with the exception of YaST which you can replace with yum or apt) that's what they do.

      --
      "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
      - JRR Tolkien.
    4. Re:Thoughts by Nat+Friedman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Since Novell purchased us 3 months ago, we have increased our investment in all of our products, using Novell's resources. And we've been aggressive about driving open source and Linux throughout the company.

      Here's a little evidence, all postdating the acquisition by Novell:

      - My notes on our new desktop development center in Bangalore
      - An article from the Times of India about our new developers there
      - The freshly-published (today!) Mono Roadmap showing where we're going with the development platform
      - The first entry in our new Evolution blog, describing the plans for Evolution 2.0, to be released early next year
      - The announcement and wiki for the Brooklyn GNOME developer's summit we are sponsoring this month
      - The announcement that our Exchange connector now supports Exchange 2003

      And this is really just the beginning. As you can imagine, most of the super exciting stuff we are doing is behind the scenes.

      From time to time since we were acquired three months ago I've heard people say things like "Novell bought Ximian just for XYZ," where XYZ has been either: Mono, our Exchange 2000 connector, GNOME, Evolution, Red Carpet, "the name," ...

      I think it should be clear that this is ridiculous.

      Yes, we will still support KDE on SuSE. However, we hope to use this opportunity to provide Linux developers and ISVs with a single stable platform for desktop application development.

      Yes, we will keep the desktop distro free. We will even make things more free than they have been.

      We're only just getting started. Stay tuned.

    5. Re:Thoughts by Karma+Sucks · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We knew that.

      Will the SuSE default desktop be changed?

      --
      (Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
    6. Re:Thoughts by vojtech · · Score: 5, Informative
      No, KDE will stay the default SUSE desktop.

      -- Vojtech Pavlik, SUSE Labs

  7. Novell not out of trouble yet by thehive · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well it is great that Novell has embraced linux big time but whether it is late or not is yet to be seen. Recent SCO drama does not seem to have affected Novell's plans, which is good since it shows positive signs that they are not too concerned about SCO lawsuits. One thing Novell should do is to make sure that they continue devlopment on Mono. Why? because this may encourage more developers to work on it which means more application for Unix/Linux. Remember that Windows is not the reason people still use it but it is because of the application which run on it .It also makes the life of the developer easy since maintaining two versions of source code is huge headache.

  8. Re:Confused by cpthowdy · · Score: 5, Informative

    You're trolling, but I'll bite. Novell is sitting on a mountain of cash and short term investments, making them a 1 billion dollar company. If their revenue stopped coming TODAY, they would be able to fully operate for at least 3 years. And I just did a NetWare 6 deployment a few months ago, and it is rock solid.

  9. More Thoughts by corebreech · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They should also resurrect SuSE's previous efforts in supporting the Power architecture, which more and more appears to be what will be competing with AMD64 (or vice versa.)

    And not only should they keep the desktop distro free, they should create a Live Distro on CD and print up a few hundred million of them and make sure that everybody and their cat has a copy, a la AOL.

    1. Re:More Thoughts by corebreech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No that'll piss people off.

      The reason people get pissed off by AOL is because a) AOL is crap, and b) they've already received at least a dozen AOL CD's (and they figured out AOL was crap back at CD #1.)

      Most people don't even understand what Linux is. I helped one person with her computer and she kept calling the thing Windows, as in "I checked to see if the keyboard was connected to Windows and it was." The apartment where I live makes available to its tenants a computer station and the manager gets pissed off at all the work he has to do to keep the thing working... he asks me what he can do about it and I tell him to make people boot from a Live CD running Linux and he looks at me as if I were speaking Swahili.

      Boot his computer from a CD -- without changing a thing on his existing installation -- and he understands immediately. Explain how a million people can use that CD and he'll never have to worry about thirteen-year-olds planting viruses or sweet-little-old-ladies who decide to save each and every single picture from Sears' website to the desktop and he gets it, immediately.

      Just put the word "Games" on the CD, and you'll have half of America running Linux tomorrow.

  10. Re:Confused by pr0c · · Score: 4, Informative

    Government Contracts.

  11. Re:Strange Crossroads by Admiral1973 · · Score: 3, Informative
    The management team that dragged Novell down in the mid-1990s is long gone. The current leadership has had the company on a solid footing and a clear path for the past few years. NetWare 6 and 6.5 have gotten great reviews, there is still a large install base of NetWare, and most importantly, I think they have learned from their past mistakes. I doubt we'll see Novell take on MS on the desktop next week or even next year.

    Novell needs to position SuSE Linux primarily as a server OS and continue to market their products as a back-end solution vs. Windows Server 2003. They can save the desktop battle for another day. They stand a better chance of making desktop inroads once their server Linux product has gotten them good press and more customers.

    --
    Lousy minor setbacks! This world sucks! -- Homer Simpson
  12. Re:Confused by cpthowdy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, eDirectory (NDS) is their flagship product, and is the best X.500 directory on the market. Next is ZENworks, the best desktop management solution according to Gartner Group. And they can both run on at least Linux, Windows, and especially on NetWare. I wouldn't say ignorant, just misinformed or uniformed. Now you can say you are informed. :)

  13. Several Novell products run on Linux now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Technically (well, OK, from a marketing perspective more than anything), the only platforms NDS ever ran on were NetWare, Windows, and Solaris.

    eDirectory is the current directory product; Linux support was added around the release of eDirectory 8.5 if memory serves.

    There's also (at least) DirXML, NetMail, and soon the NetWare Services for Linux (currently in open beta).

    And then there's the whole training thing - the Certified Linux Engineer program has been in the works for some time (heck, it was announced at BrainShare 2003 in April).

    I think it's safe to say that Novell is "betting the farm" on its Linux future. All the signs are there - so if they don't do a good job pulling it all together, the company won't survive this. I seriously doubt this will be another WordPerfect-type acquisition.

    1. Re:Several Novell products run on Linux now by hendersj · · Score: 5, Informative

      The distinction between the two products is very important, however; I've no reason to doubt you know the difference between the two - but in the interests of informing the uninformed, let me jump in and provide some background.

      I'll preface my comments by saying that I do work for Novell as a member of the Training Services organization; specifically, I develop and present public courses on eDirectory and the underlying technology. Prior to training on the technology, I worked in the trenches with both NDS and eDirectory, starting with the initial release of the technology in 1993.

      NDS was based on a database engine that was specific to NetWare (called "Record Manager", or RECMAN). The RECMAN engine had difficulty scaling to millions of objects per partition, something needed for identity management for external-facing directories. Additionally, RECMAN was tied to the Transaction Tracking System in NetWare, making it very difficult to port to other platforms.

      The database engine used in eDirectory is much, much more scalable and portable; improvements were added to the replication engine as well to ensure large replica rings could converge in a reasonable time without running into communications scalability issues. Also, in the most recent releases (8.7 and 8.7.1) of eDirectory, the handling of referential integrity in the database has been modified to be more scalable, much in the same way as the replication engine was enhanced in NDS8 and eDirectory 8.5.

      From an end-user perspective, there's not a lot of difference between NDS and eDirectory - they both represent X.500 directories; rights are applied almost exactly the same in the two (the "Inheritable" capabilities in eDirectory were actually introduced in NDS8, the last "true" release under the "NDS" branding, though it used the more scalable FLAIM database engine).

      But from a back-end architecture, the differences between NDS and eDirectory are as dramatic as the differences between the NetWare 2.x/3.x bindery and NDS.

      --
      Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.
  14. There is still a lot of Novell out there.... by MadAnthony02 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are still a lot of Novell users out there, especially among certain groups (education, government, healthcare, law offices). I recently attended a CNA class, and all of the attendees fell into one of those catagories.

    Novell actually has some pretty cool products out there, such as iFolder (syncs data between computers and a server), NetStorage (lets you access network drives from any computer with a web browser), and iPrint (lets users install their own printers via a web browser). They might not have a lot of new users, but they have a lot of old users who have no plans on changing - and they are coming out with some products that are actually pretty good.

    Plus it's nice that our GroupWise email system resists most of those fun Outlook-based viruses.

  15. Re:Confused by pkesel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why don't you go to the Novell site and look at the SEC filings. You'll see exactly where there money comes from and where it goes. Just like any publicly held company, they gotta tell the public.

    No sense speculating. Just do the research. From teh 2002 filing:

    " We managed to maintain large network site-license revenue at $681 million, approximately flat to fiscal 2001"

    "Novell's revenue, including the addition of revenue from recent acquisitions, was up eight percent to $1.13 billion, and cash flow from operations during the year was a positive $51 million. "

    "Cash and short term investments on our balance sheet stood at $636 million at the end of fiscal 2002. Novell had no debt, and total assets were at $1.7 billion."

    From the 10G for 4/2003

    NOVELL, INC.
    CONSOLIDATED CONDENSED BALANCE SHEETS
    April 30, 2003 October 31, 2002
    In thousands, except share and per share data (Unaudited)
    Assets
    Current assets:
    Cash and short-term investments $ 626,397 $ 635,858
    Receivables (less allowances of $32,677 - April 30,
    2003 and $39,676 - October 31, 2002)
    183,672
    214,827
    Prepaid expenses 32,293 24,077
    Deferred income taxes 19,420 21,204
    Other current assets 25,166 23,572
    Total current assets 886,948 919,538
    Property, plant and equipment, net 353,183 369,189
    Goodwill 180,579 179,534
    Intangible assets 30,092 36,351
    Long-term investments 55,603 73,452
    Deferred income taxes 83,791 74,323
    Other assets 12,385 12,678
    Total assets $ 1,602,581 $ 1,665,065
    Liabilities and Stockholders' Equity
    Current liabilities:
    Accounts payable $ 61,007 $ 57,241
    Accrued compensation 78,498 87,778
    Other accrued liabilities 124,337 134,850
    Income taxes payable 28,764 36,294
    Deferred revenue 267,546 275,344
    Total current liabilities 560,152 591,507
    Minority interests 7,841 8,016
    Stockholders' equity:
    Common stock, par value $.10 per share:
    Authorized - 600,000,000 shares;
    Issued -371,295,559 shares-April 30, 2003,
    367,537,926 shares-October 31, 2002 37,130 36,753
    Preferred stock, par value $.10 per share;
    Authorized - 500,000 shares, Issued - 0 shares -- --
    Additional paid-in capital 303,760 297,139
    Retained earnings 698,164 738,663
    Accumulated other comprehensive income 651 57
    Other (5,117) (7,070)
    Total stockholders' equity 1,034,588 1,065,542
    Total liabilities and stockholders' equity $ 1,602,581 $ 1,665,065

    --
    - Sig this!
  16. Re:Novell - move over and let IBM drive by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You haven't used much netware have you ?

    Novell servers have a rep for rock solid stability. They have been bricked into walls and run for years. I can't think of any working server that compares with netware for uptime, and when it comes to security take a look at the NSA ratings where novell stands.

    What Novell is known for is reliability. Their directory services work a hell of alot better than Microsofts. This counts for alot in most corporate environments.

    Simply put Novell linux has alot more corporate credibility than any other name except maybe (IBM or Microsoft) linux. This is a tremendous push forward for Linux in general. Especially when you consider they want the desktop and redhat just doesn't seem to care anymore.

  17. what Nat forgot :) by luge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's even better than what Nat says ;)

    - for the first time ever, we've been able to open up our Ximian Desktop development process. You can get basically every patch we write on desktop built and applied to GNOME 2.4/2.5 via the xd-unstable channel.

    - if you poke through gnome CVS, we've got skeletal code for a groupwise connector there. Again, something the old novell would never have done- release not only free code, but basically defacto API docs by way of code as well.

    - up until the suse purchase this morning, we actually had a link to gnome.org on the front page of novell.com. Look around for a link to gnome.org on sun's site- it's not on the front page, and it's not in the Java Desktop main page, either.

    So, like I said... it's even better than Nat says it is. :) Of course, I'd be lying if I told you that I can guarantee it'll be perfect going forward- but so far all the signs are very positive for that.

    --

    IAAL,BIANLY

  18. months ago by mattdm · · Score: 4, Informative

    Red Hat made public its end of life plans at the end of last year. Slashdot's big hoopla the other day was a leeetle delayed. See the original announcement. Anyone paying even a slight bit of attention shouldn't have been surprised -- there was even relatively-widespread analysis in the geek press.

    Novell could be half a year behind and still have time for "months of negotiations". And it's a big company, so it's not suprising for something like this to take that long.

  19. Re:Developers! Developers! Developers! by VikingBrad · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I think Novell was the only one listening to MonkeyBoy when he did his dance.
    Netware is a great & stable network operating system but difficult for developers compared to Windows. So Novell can hook into the Open Source community and get access to the largest base of developers
    With Novell's global support & partners they can provide a very nice alternative.

    A eDirectory enabled distributed network of Netware X servers (SUSE) with Desktop X workstations (Ximian) all kept up to date with ZenWorks X (Red Carpet) would be a nice solution for a lot of companies.

    ps I'm trademarking those product names! ;-)

    Cheers

    VikingBrad

  20. Re:Confused by GSloop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Perhaps few people are still rolling out Netware installations, as such seems to be much of the public demand. But I must say, Netware is much more stable than Windows in vitually every situation I've deployed either in.

    A small medical office I did an installation for had the Netware 3.12 box stay up, for around 1260 days. (Nearly *four* years without a single reboot.) It went down the time before that, only because of a four+ hour power outage that the UPS couldn't outlive. It has been up for like 500 days prior to that. So, total unrebooted uptime, was more than five years. Not a single unplanned outage caused by software failure, and no planned outages/crashes either.

    Heck, in 1992-1993 I'd have killed for a Windows box that could file serve for that long without constant prodding and TLC - along with at least weekly reboots.

    Novell's eDirectory is much more mature, IMHO than AD, and their ability to produce a product that simply works well is light years ahead.

    Finally, Novell, perhaps to their harm always was the kind of company that left lots of space for others to develop products along side them. They made a core product, and let others fill in and provide apps around them. This kind of community is crucial IMHO, and the Novell culture, at least in the past, was good at allowing it.

    I think this may be a great match.

    Cheers,
    Greg

  21. I haven't worked with Netware for a few years... by Malor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... but it occurs to me that many of you youngsters may never have worked with Novell products at all.

    If they have preserved their technical culture through the last eight or ten years, then Novell is likely to be a very, very good fit with Linux. Netware was always clumsy and arcane to administer, at least at first; the learning curve was steep. (sound familiar?) But once you understood it, you could see WHY they had done it the way they did, and their solutions were often brilliant. In exchange for up-front learning curve, you got power under the hood. (sound familiar?)

    Windows was all sexy and nice-looking, and it was a lot easier to administer up front, but it didn't have anywhere NEAR the depth of thought behind it. As of NT 4.0, Microsoft's first real competition to Netware, things like print services were a joke. You could share a printer, sure, but what if you wanted to share a pool of printers? What if you wanted an automatic fallback to a backup printer that wasn't ordinarily in the pool? What if you wanted to share the same printer across several print queues? Even several print POOLS? With Novell, any of these things were easily possible, though they did take some time to get set up. (arcane, remember?) Things like this were just flat not possible on NT 4. I'm not sure they're doable even NOW, to be honest. And Microsoft introduced Active Directory, to great fanfare, with Windows 2000; Novell had Novell Directory Services something like FIVE YEARS BEFORE. It seemed to me that NDS was, as usual, better thought out and more powerful, but when I was looking at AD, my NDS experience was several years out of date, so that could be mistaken. (I never got much past beginner-level with either directory service, FWIW.)

    At any rate, the buzz in the NT 4.0 timeframe was all about "application services". This was shorthand for "you can write and run your own server software", which was very difficult to do on Netware. Netware was an EXTREMELY closed architecture. If they have retained that mindset, that's going to be the biggest likely sticking point. Windows was more open and cheaper, so it prospered, just as Linux is completely open and cheaper still. Novell may have a hard time with this issue.

    At any rate, Netware servers were nearly uncrashable. It could happen: I had one customer who could crash his server just by running a particular application. But by and large, you could literally install Netware on a PC, put it in the closet, and forget about it for five years. Or longer. It would just run and run and run and always work and never break. I'm DEAD SERIOUS when I say "five years uptime"; Novell reliability made even Linux look kind of amateurish. You could pretty much expect that once you turned off the monitor and left the room, that the server would continue to run until the hardware broke. It was that good.

    Assuming they've preserved their technical culture , Novell probably knows more about reliability than any other living x86 software company. And they had this directory services stuff figured out six or eight years ago. They've had a lot of time to think about that problem. I've also heard good things about ZenWorks, though I haven't touched it myself.

    This could be very good indeed. I'm seriously thinking about downloading SuSE now; I know it's not going to change over the short term, but if the marriage comes off (and, mind you, MOST tech company takeovers fail), LinuxWorks could become the de facto standard within a few years.