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Tangible Interfaces for Computers

Jesrad writes "A friend pointed me to this impressive demonstration of the SenseTable by James Patten, of the Tangible Media Group project of the MIT. This project aims at conceiving better human-machine interfaces by using the concept of physical objects that the user can manipulate, to represent abstract computer data and commands. The device looks and works a lot like what was envisioned in Minority Report, it uses pressure to track blocks on a sensitive surface, and feeds back to the user by superimposing graphical data. Want to change the volume of your MP3 player? Just put a block on it and turn like you would a radio knob. Menus and commands are accessed by moving a block along command hierarchy, represented in a simple tree, or by touching the command's name. So far it only lacks a device for text input, like a keyboard, but maybe voice recognition will replace it?"

158 comments

  1. Absolutely amazing by downix · · Score: 1

    I've seen virtual keyboards, but this is beyond amazing. I do not think in a few years we will be able to recognize a computer. It will have evolved that much.

    --
    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    1. Re:Absolutely amazing by Mr.+Light+Touch · · Score: 1

      Not to be a total plug, but FingerWorks MultiTouch technology offers seamless gestures, pointing, and typing on the same surface. Very similar to this MIT work, except you don't manipulate secondary objects, you manipulate fingers on the surface directly. Different finger combinations can attach to different controls like Zoom, Undo/Redo, etc. We'll soon have an SDK available with which you can directly connect zoom/scale/translate hand motions to your favorite GUI controls.

      For those who haven't noticed yet, we've been on the market for two years. Haven't taken over yet, but we've made many a power user happy :)

      http://forums.fingerworks.com

  2. Re:Oh this is soooo cool.. by Cazov · · Score: 1

    yea...like...movies are going to have better war rooms now...not only can there be fighting in the war room, but they can throw stuff!

  3. Keyboard implementation should be easy... by internet-redstar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... just press the button to type the specific character?
    One could even have different keyboard layouts being switchable with a knob... oh, wonder, wonder!

    Feel free to add other irony below...

    1. Re:Keyboard implementation should be easy... by Jesrad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Change your keyboard layout (which would be projected on the SenseTable) by dragging the letters around ? The possibilities are nearly endless.

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    2. Re:Keyboard implementation should be easy... by internet-redstar · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      About your 'caring' remark...
      a friend of mine just send a mail messege to one of the OpenSource projects he sometimes sends a bugreport to, with congrats to the other people for their work.

      If we don't pay for our software, we can at least pat each others backs :)


      GNU, bringing the fun back into computing :)

  4. Aww by ScrewMaster · · Score: 0

    Dang, Slashdotted already. That didn't take long.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  5. umm... by mozumder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So why can't you just put a volume knob on that MP3 player?

    1. Re:umm... by Pathetic+Coward · · Score: 1

      Because it isn't rilly cool and techy.

    2. Re:umm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did just that, but for some reason when I try to turn it with my fingers it doesn't move :(

      You mean I have to use this "mouse" thing to move the pointy thing to the volume knob to operate it ?</clueless>

  6. Combine with smoke screens ! by Jesrad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now we just have to convince the guys who make these to associate with the Tangible Media people. Minority Report indeed.

    --
    Maybe we deserve this world ?
  7. Star Trek IV by holt_rpi · · Score: 3, Funny

    SCOTTY: Computer....Computer? (Technician hands SCOTTY the mouse. SCOTTY uses it as a microphone) Hello, computer.

    TECHNICIAN: Just use the keyboard!

    SCOTTY: The keyboard? How quaint!

  8. Re:Oh this is soooo cool.. by liverslury · · Score: 1

    I wonder if the footprint of these devices would be prohibitive for many people's home and work environments where space could be at a premium. Still, this thing rocks.

  9. Now when somebody asks... by p4ul13 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Where's the any key?"

    You'll have to reply with "Well where did you leave it last?"

    --
    Paul Lenhart writes words!
    1. Re:Now when somebody asks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. Oral audible hell by kfg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "So far it only lacks a device for text input, like a keyboard, but maybe voice recognition will replace it?"

    Or maybe they'll just plug a keyboard into it? Voice recognition may well have its uses, especially as an accessibility technology, but as a general input device it's really a pretty poor idea.

    Unless we're all supposed to sit in a cone of silence or something.

    KFG

    1. Re:Oral audible hell by hitmark · · Score: 1

      on screen keyboard anyone?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    2. Re:Oral audible hell by kfg · · Score: 1

      on screen keyboard anyone?

      So long as you can touch type on it at 80 wpm, or even two finger "Columbus Method" at 40 wpm.

      On screen "keyboards" suck. A lot. And hard too. Not to mention what they cost in Windex.

      About the only thing worse is selecting words from a dictionary.

      KFG

    3. Re:Oral audible hell by temojen · · Score: 5, Funny

      number sign bach back back back hash back #include lessthan back
      int mane back maine back main bracket back ( int argh! see back back a r g c commet back , char star back ** a r g v ) brace back {
      print f ( quote back "hello world") semicolon back ;
      ] no not that brace the other one back back back back back back back back }

    4. Re:Oral audible hell by zonker · · Score: 0

      especially if you are a programmer... oy.

    5. Re:Oral audible hell by X-Lancer · · Score: 1

      Very funny indeed! :-)
      But seriously, adjusting Voice Recognition mode to 'programming' or better yet 'programming in C' could make it actually work.

      Hany

    6. Re:Oral audible hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's not even taking into account the prankster who wants to run past shouting "B 7 q 8 3!" HUR HUR HUR!!!

  11. Call me a skeptic by GFW · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While various varieties of tangible interfaces might be useful in specific circumstances, the typical user doesn't want more crap on their desk. They want a flat, easily positioned, brillant screen (or three). They want a keyboard (which could be virtual, but most people prefer some tactile feedback for typing). They want something for pointing (which could be a glove, a mouse, entirely virtual, ...) They don't want a metaphor that looks like Play-School.

    1. Re:Call me a skeptic by Zebbers · · Score: 0, Troll

      ummm maybe
      like ms drones
      they want all that cause they havent experienced anything else

      i know i havent....
      but would love the opportunity

    2. Re:Call me a skeptic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Additionally, it doesn't seem to me that there's much of a difference between this and current user interfaces. It looks shiny, but basically what they do is use a block of wood to point at things instead of a mouse. And orientation matters as well as position. Other than that, it's just drag-and-drop and point-and-click, except without mouse buttons and with shiny lights...

      Lourens

    3. Re:Call me a skeptic by dmorelli · · Score: 1

      Like the interface in Minority Report with the gloves. It was fantastic.

    4. Re:Call me a skeptic by gidds · · Score: 3, Insightful
      How many people said something similar when the WIMP environment (e.g. Mac) went public? "Real computers need you to type everything! Anything worthwhile can be shown as text - if I want to see pretty pictures I'll go to an art gallery! And keep those mice in the toybox where they belong!"

      Initially, that took lots of space, seemed a waste of resources, and you couldn't do much with it. Since then, resources have increased tremendously, new applications and methods have been developed that make good use of it, and people see the extra desk space as worthwhile. I don't know if the same might happen to the SenseTable, but I do know that if so, it won't be because it fits today's hardware, apps, and interfaces, but because it'll fit tomorrow's.

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    5. Re:Call me a skeptic by Hognoxious · · Score: 1
      Additionally, it doesn't seem to me that there's much of a difference between this and current user interfaces.
      There's a lot of difference; in the music section of the demo, where he's opening that kind of menu tree thing, it took about ten times as long as it would have done with a mouse.
      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  12. oh no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i can't feel my mouse!

  13. Talking to my computer... by haydon4 · · Score: 5, Funny

    So far it only lacks a device for text input, like a keyboard, but maybe voice recognition will replace it?

    I talk to my computer enough as it is. The day that it actually listens to me is that day that I'll have to rebuild it every other week, and red will be the day when it starts talking back to me.

  14. Smarter robotic blocks by G4from128k · · Score: 1

    What if they make the blocks smarter by building a display on the top-surface, wheels on the bottom, and a processor inside? The block-top interface could display additional information. The table could automatically move the blocks into an pre-designed configuration (or adjust the configuration to match user-initiated movements of some other blocks). The wheeled mechanism could provide haptic-feedback as the user moves the blocks along the table. Distributed processing among the wirelessly networked blocks could help sense what the user is doing.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Smarter robotic blocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sony in japan has already done this. google for Block Jam. lots of little smart bricks that you can re-arrange in space to make music. kinda cool

  15. Audiopad by LeoDV · · Score: 3, Informative

    A concept like this one has already been explored at MIT with the Audiopad (Google Cache), used to make music but really could be used as a new, innovative kind of interface.

    What I'm waiting for is for someone to combine that Linux HD of the PS2 and the EyeToy into a Minority Report type interface.

    1. Re:Audiopad by Jesrad · · Score: 1

      The demonstration video in the article shows Audiopad, among other things. It is the very same MIT people that are working on AudioPad and the SenseTable.

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    2. Re:Audiopad by merger · · Score: 1

      This is actually the same thing developed by the James Pattern and Ben Recht. I was just on the site a couple of days ago looking at it for an MIS class. This page however is the first time that I have seen some of the other unique applications such as the sandscape.

      Now earlier in the comments fireboy1919 that it wouldn't work because people are unwilling to learn a new interface in addition to the ones they are already good at. I think for it to be successful it depends on the application of they system and playing off of its core competencies which are the ability to track more than one object on the surface at a time and the ability to take on any shape and size by adding more units to the interface. So where it becomes useful is in a group situation where many people can interact with the objects at the same time and they are not limited to the size of a monitor. In the audio example it is like a mixing board but what makes it special is that every object has a contextual menu and can change to the users needs.

    3. Re:Audiopad by Ryne · · Score: 1

      eh, did you read the article? Your link is to the same project as in the article...

    4. Re:Audiopad by LeoDV · · Score: 1

      Arg, my mistake. Well, to my defense the article is slashdotted.

  16. Is it any more tangible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...than this movement-sensitive plastic block I have on my desk right now. It actually responds to the physical movements of my hand and includes pressure-sensitive areas that allow me to interact with virtual desktop metaphors. I can actually move this device over the virtual mp3 player on my desktop and apply pressure to one of the sensitive areas to change to volume.

    1. Re:Is it any more tangible... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Strange. I tried what you're describing, I moved the thing over the monitor to the iTunes window and pressed it on the volume control but it didn't work. That, and I can't see the screen behind the plastic block thing, that's most unpractical.

  17. Uhhh by bruthasj · · Score: 1

    I thought my keyboard was already pretty tangible, but I just came out of watching Revolutions ... so, my brain hurts now. Maybe I'm still trying to connect what the "pinching" had to do with anything in that movie. Maybe nothing's real! It's all an intangible mess of connectors to something unknown, unreal.

    Blah! Hogwash!

  18. Or, alternatively, by fireboy1919 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It won't work.

    The typewriter interface has been with us for over a century. We've become accustomed to it.

    I remember watching Minority Report and thinking "people don't like computers now. Do you think they'll be willing to learn such an obviously unintuitive and totally new interface?"

    This seemed like it would be especially true outside the tech sector, such as, for instance, in law enforcement.

    Remember that the only intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything else is learned. Some people may use this, yes, but I doubt most. I don't think most can deal with anything beyond using the mouse and keyboard.

    Otherwise, the following things would be used, since they're faster even though they have a higher learning curve:
    -mouse gestures would be HUGELY in use
    -keyboard shortcuts would be known by almost everyone
    -everyone would be using vi or emacs in a wysiwsg mode instead of wordpad/notepad/word.
    -User interfaces with only a single type of action (clicky-clicky) wouldn't be popular.

    When and if this is ever true of most of society, then we'll be ready for the new interfaces.

    --
    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    1. Re:Or, alternatively, by viware · · Score: 1
      -mouse gestures would be HUGELY in use -keyboard shortcuts would be known by almost everyone -everyone would be using vi or emacs in a wysiwsg mode instead of wordpad/notepad/word. -User interfaces with only a single type of action (clicky-clicky) wouldn't be popular.
      I disagree. Those things make using a keyboard and mouse harder, whereas new input devices could be easier to use than a keyboard and mouse. The reason no new technologies have been widely used is because they have no significant advantage, and we already know how to use the keyboard and mouse.

      If a new input device (maybe a nipple? :) ) was introduced which was intuitive, easy to use and had a significant advantage over the current devices, I think it would be picked up in a second.
    2. Re:Or, alternatively, by Shrubber · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think it would *especially* be easier to implement outside of the tech sector where you do have a lot of people who are not used to the typewriter interface, even today.

      A huge number of people have no idea what they're doing with a computer in their jobs, they simply are trained to press buttons and click a mouse in a certain set of steps in order to do what they need to do in order to get their paycheck. Really most office workers aren't much different than Pavlov's dogs.

      On the other hand those people are going to be easier to train to use a completely new interface seeing as they don't know the underlaying reasons WHY they do what they do today.

      Obviously the people who have grown up with what we have today will take longer to get used to anything new, but people have managed to learn how to use new input interfaces (mouse, touchpad, "nipple"), graphical user interfaces, etc. I'm not so sure about how useful something like this will be in reality, it has a great gee whiz factor, but if it works well people can adapt.

    3. Re:Or, alternatively, by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      Something similar was said when the mouse was first invented...

    4. Re:Or, alternatively, by Micro$will · · Score: 2, Funny

      If a new input device (maybe a nipple? :) ) was introduced which was intuitive, easy to use and had a significant advantage over the current devices, I think it would be picked up in a second.

      A nipple is no good in it's current implimentation, which explains why I use a USB mouse with my Thinkpad. I find it very hard to suck on the nipple (Trackpoint), see the screen, and click the mouse buttons at the same time. Plus my boss accuses me of sleeping on the job due to "keyboard face".

    5. Re:Or, alternatively, by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The typewriter interface has been with us for over a century. We've become accustomed to it."

      I agree with you that the typewriter interface isn't going anywhere, but I don't agree with your reasoning.

      These days, computer fear is dying. Go back to the 80's. How many people had computers? How many have computers today? Look at how kids use computers today, do you really think that they're suddenly not going to want to use them 30 years from now?

      So why do I feel that the typewriter interface isn't going away? That answer is very simple: Tactile interface. Not only can keys be found without having to have your eyes right on the keyboard, but that click a key makes is a subtletey you are constantly aware of.

      I think virtual keyboards will show some success in the marketplace, there are times where they'd be incredibly useful. But they wont replace tactile keyboards. I'm not really a betting man, but I would be willing to bet that successful virtual keyboards will emit a beep when a button is hit.

      I think Final Fantasy had it right. They depicted use of holograms for computer interfaces. They weren't flat Star Trek LCARSesque screens, they were three dimensional buttons along with turny knobby spherey things. The user could feel the objects as though they were solid. Aki Ross even had one of those strapped to her arm. Pretty slick.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    6. Re:Or, alternatively, by netsrek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Remember that the only intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything else is learned.

      Stop repeating this crap. Have you ever watched a baby have to learn how to breast feed? There's a reflex there to get to the nipple, but actually doing the feeding isn't intuitive at all.

      There are no intuitive interfaces, only ones which are similar to other interfaces you've already learnt how to use...

      --

      i don't read slashdot anymore.
    7. Re:Or, alternatively, by Saeger · · Score: 1
      I remember watching Minority Report and thinking "people don't like computers now. Do you think they'll be willing to learn such an obviously unintuitive and totally new interface?"

      Funny. I remember thinking, "Boy would my arms and shoulders be sore after a few hours of that!"

      I'll take the "lazy" keyboard/mouse interface any day of the week; I only have to twitch my fingers and wrists to get something done. The only interface lazier and more effective than the keyboard has got to be direct BCI (Brain Computer Interfaces).

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    8. Re:Or, alternatively, by keith.bronstrup.com · · Score: 0

      Remember that the only intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything else is learned.

      Is that why I like using the little nipple between the G H and B keys on my laptop so much?

      Seriuosly, the penis and vagina are intuitive interfaces as well. Maybe we should design an interface that closely mimics a vagina and pair of tits for guys (and lezzies) to use and one that mimics a cock and pair of pecs for women (and... uhmm... gays). How intuitive would THAT interface be?

      --
      Error 666 - SCO source has been found in your Linux kernel. Please remove it.
      Formerly kdsolutions
    9. Re:Or, alternatively, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK. I'll ask it. So what we need is an interface comprised of nipples? Works for me...

    10. Re:Or, alternatively, by Orne · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid that South Park beat you to it, in the episode The Entity, when Mr Garrison invents a transportation device even more advanced than the Segway... the only downside is that you have to steer it with a lever that's inserted into your anus. Well, *I* consider it a downside...

    11. Re:Or, alternatively, by Orne · · Score: 1

      Figures as soon as I submit, I find the script...

      Mr. Garrison: IT gets over 300 miles to the gallon, and is safely capable of speeds of over 200 miles per hour.

      Guests: Whoa. Wow.

      Bill Gates: This will change everything.

      Steve Jobs: We're going to have to rethnk cities!

      Mr. Garrison: [puts on a helmet] Now, IT is easily operated using four flexigrip handles. Two of them are on each side. Left side for throttle, right side for steering. [operates each one as he describes it] The third flexigrip is gently inserted into the anus, to keep the driver in place. [gets into the wheel and activates the flexigrip. It extends into his anus and he groans as it locks him in.]

      Guests: Ugh. Oh.

      Mr. Garrison: ...there we go. Now, the final flexigrip is directly in front of the driver so that its small switches can be operated with the mouth, as such. [begins to suck on the flexigrip, then stops] Put the four together and we're ready to go. [gets the four flexigrips to work in unison and the vehicles takes off, first one way...]

      Steve Jobs: Oh my God! [...and then the other. The guests turn to see IT zoom across the yard]

      Steve Forbes: Look at it go! [Garrison crashes through the fence and disappears in the distance. Kyle, standing next to the new hole in the fence, isn't hurt]

      Bill Gates: But the way it works... do you think people will go through that to travel?

      Steve Forbes: Hey, it... still beats what you go through at the airports.

    12. Re:Or, alternatively, by fireboy1919 · · Score: 1

      This is not true. I have three younger sisters.
      Two of them are young enough that I remember it, and besides, there's abundant scientific proof. I leave the burden of getting it on you since you're the one who doesn't believe, and I believe other readers will find this obvious.

      Newborns automatically know all the mechanics of how to feed, defacate, and cry. Walking and crawling are also known to be built-in, though they don't take effect until babies are capable of doing it.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    13. Re:Or, alternatively, by netsrek · · Score: 1

      Well it definitely wasn't intuitive for my daughter, the children of two friends, or the babies in the ward at the hospital. There is a reason why you have nurses showing new mothers and their babies how to breast feed... It's not just the mother not knowing how to do it. You watch next time you see a newborn attempt to breastfeed for the first time. There is an instinctive suckling going on, there is an instinctive move towards the breast, but they definitely don't know how to get milk out of the nipple at first.

      --

      i don't read slashdot anymore.
    14. Re:Or, alternatively, by fireboy1919 · · Score: 1

      I guess I would have to concede that point. Besides knowing how to suck the milk out and how to find the nipple, babies don't know how to "get the milk out of the nipple." They have to be taught in some form of baby-language known by the nurses to use the interface, since they can't do the remaining step of...um...well, whatever they can't do.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    15. Re:Or, alternatively, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      There are no intuitive interfaces, only ones which are similar to other interfaces you've already learnt how to use...


      This is precisely the definition of an intuitive interface. The thing that we should remember is that intuition is subjective, as this definition implies.
    16. Re:Or, alternatively, by riffer · · Score: 1
      So, how many babies have you breast fed? Were you there for the very first breast feeding your mother had to do?

      I've assisted in the breast feeding of my daughter, just after she was born. While the suckle instinct is quite strong, she had to learn how to load the nipple in her mouth correctly, to stay on the nipple and most importantly to keep suckling. It was not trivial and it took many weeks until baby and mother were accomplished at the task.

      You're grasp of certain meanings is off. Newborns don't know how to do anything. It's biological, even a severely impared newborn will be able to defecate, cry, etc. And you've mixed up intuition with instinct.

      Basically, you're making shit up to sound smart without speaking from actual experience.

      --
      In the darkness of future past, The magician longs to see. One chants between two worlds, "Fire, walk with me!"
  19. Call ME a sceptic! by bj8rn · · Score: 1

    I bet that what most of the typical users really want is to get all this crap they have off the desk: the monitor smashed in, the keyboard thrown out of the window and the mouse stuffed up the sysadmin's, because the software side of the interface is non-intuitive and can be frustruating to use.

    --
    Hell is not other people; it is yourself. - Ludwig Wittgenstein
  20. Exactly the Wrong Direction by BinBoy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hate this whole movement. Using computers should become EASIER. Who wants tired arms from searching on the computer or back pain from moving files? I'd prefer to do this stuff with a click of a mouse button.

    1. Re:Exactly the Wrong Direction by skaffen42 · · Score: 1

      Yes. Aparently the lessons of gorilla arm has been forgotten. Each generation seems set on repeating the mistakes of their predecessors.

      --
      People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this.
    2. Re:Exactly the Wrong Direction by scotartt · · Score: 1

      may be what's needed is an interface which has it's controls built into the arms of your chair, not hovering out in front of you somewhere.

      --
      -A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed-
  21. Tangible is not the right word.. by wfberg · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think "loseable" would be a better one.. I can't even find the remote control for my TV most of the time (and I have 3 RCs); it would be a BAD idea to have all sorts of controls that do different things and contain state information.. Can you imagine losing the volume knob?

    --
    SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    1. Re:Tangible is not the right word.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe you can call them "expendable", since they're just plastic or wood blocks.

    2. Re:Tangible is not the right word.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " I think "loseable" would be a better one.. I can't even find the remote control for my TV most of the time (and I have 3 RCs); it would be a BAD idea to have all sorts of controls that do different things and contain state information.. Can you imagine losing the volume knob? "

      Great. So your tendancy towards forgetfullness is a reason why I cant have this technology? Thanks buddy :/

  22. Voice recognition vs. keyboards by LeoDV · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even when the technology is perfected to Star Trek standards i.e. you don't even need to think about articulating to make yourself understood by the computer, keyboards will remain the preferred input method of many, including me, simply because it's the fastest. I haven't ever "learned" to type but I average around 100 WPM and peak at 120, without a DVORAK keyboard. I'll rather use that to jolt down an idea, write a letter, program or post at Slashdot than voice recognition.

    1. Re:Voice recognition vs. keyboards by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      An average person speaks at about 100-150 words a minute, without much effort. An old lecturer of mine was once clocked at 250wpm while giving evidence as a scientific adviser (boy did you have to pay attention in his lectures!).
      So a person with no training at all, given perfect voice recognition, could dictate faster than you could type after (presumably) a lot of typing practice.

    2. Re:Voice recognition vs. keyboards by tcas · · Score: 1

      Your comment says it all. You don't write I haven't even learned to type without quote marks, because that's not true. The truth is that you have learned to type, albeit informally.

      You, perhaps, are sure that a keyboard will be the most efficient input device you can ever hope to use. But I fail to see how that relates to the possibility of a more intuitive interface for future generations.

  23. What does Doug think? by bluethundr · · Score: 3, Informative

    This work reminds me of the work that Douglas Englebart was doing in the 1960s. And while I think this new interface work is great and needed I also believe that the biggest impediment to adopting new methods are cultural ones. While you could (and should) say that the delay in adoption of Englebart's ideas (windowing systems, a mouse for input) was the technical challenge of bringing these methods to home computing mahcines, you can't forget that cultural forces were also at work slowing down people's acceptance of the GUI.

    But a more dramatic example of the slowness of cultural change is the fact that I am typing this on a QWERTY keyboard. Dvorak has been around for years but still we type on devices that show their Victorian age heritage. Even when there is no need at all for the random shuffling of the alphabet across the current keyboard in the way we use it!

    Another fine example is the red-headed stepchild of the Englebart revolution; the BAT keyboard. The BAT is supposedly easier to learn to use (I've never tried it myself) than a regular keyoard and is also supposedly more ergonomic than a keyboard, as well. It is aslo easier on the joints (or so they say). Now it's mostly sold for people who have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and other injuries/disabilities. But it was originally thought to be a better method for input for everyone (injured/disabled or not) to use.

    Englebart was right about most things (which were later refined by others into the form in which we now recognize them), but the BAT just never caught on. Too different, probably, from what people had already been using for over a century.

    --
    Quod scripsi, scripsi.
    1. Re:What does Doug think? by skaffen42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But a more dramatic example of the slowness of cultural change is the fact that I am typing this on a QWERTY keyboard. Dvorak [mwbrooks.com] has been around for years but still we type on devices that show their Victorian age heritage. Even when there is no need at all for the random shuffling of the alphabet across the current keyboard in the way we use it!

      You know that this is all a myth, don't you? It is one of those "geek myths" people keep on repeating to each other without really bothering to check the facts.

      I know, I used to do tell this story as well. Then I read a bit more about it and realized that there was a bit more to the story than I thought.

      Straightdope summarizes it well: "(1) the research demonstrating the superiority of the Dvorak keyboard is sparse and methodologically suspect; (2) a sizable body of work suggests that in fact the Dvorak offers little practical advantage over the QWERTY; (3) at least one study indicates that placing commonly used keys far apart, as with the QWERTY, actually speeds typing, since you frequently alternate hands; and (4) the QWERTY keyboard did not become a standard overnight but beat out several competing keyboards over a period of years. Thus it may be fairly said to represent the considered choice of the marketplace."

      --
      People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this.
    2. Re:What does Doug think? by eidechse · · Score: 1

      It's not a myth. A debatable point perhaps. As for checking the facts, here's some more.

    3. Re:What does Doug think? by skaffen42 · · Score: 1

      Hey, thanks for the link. I might have to change my tune again... :)

      --
      People couldn't type. We realized: Death would eventually take care of this.
    4. Re:What does Doug think? by eidechse · · Score: 1

      No Problem, the same thing happened to me :)

      My story went like this:

      1) Read that Dvorak was faster/better (told people).

      2) Read that it wasn't (told people).

      3) My wife tried Dvorak and said I should check it out. I told her it wasn't that great. I did some more research, found out it was (arguably) better and tried it.

      4) Now my wife and I both use Dvorak exclusively.

      All speed arguments aside, the main reason I changed my mind was that I found it to be more comfortable.

    5. Re:What does Doug think? by vsync64 · · Score: 1
      (3) at least one study indicates that placing commonly used keys far apart, as with the QWERTY, actually speeds typing, since you frequently alternate hands;
      I've found Dvorak to perform far better on the "alternating hands" metric. All the vowels are on the left-hand side, and 3/5ths of the consonants are on the right. I can get a nice little rhythm going, very trancelike.
      --
      TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
    6. Re:What does Doug think? by TwistedGreen · · Score: 1

      ...at least one study indicates that placing commonly used keys far apart, as with the QWERTY, actually speeds typing, since you frequently alternate hands.

      But I don't frequently alternate hands with my QWERTY. In fact, if you pay attention to what your hands are doing, it seems that your left hand does quite a bit more than your right. I kind of assumed that Dvorak fixed this by adjusting the balance.

  24. I can't do that. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can tell you where to stick a greased up Yoda doll. =)

  25. titsss ! by KingRamsis · · Score: 0

    so I can finally sequeze those tits on p0rn sites !! this is very noble I will cry a river.

  26. "The MIT Media Lab" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've just finished reading that (quite old) book. The book describes MIT media lab as a very special place where lots of cool stuff was going on (ideas/researchers/etc). Is MIT media lab still a special place or just another research lab doing some rather boring and not very innovative stuff?

  27. Lemme get this straight by Blitzshlag · · Score: 1
    So instead of moving my mouse to the volume bar and dragging it, then moving it up to a menu and scrolling down the menu, all with the same motions and buttons ... I have to lift something up, move it across my desk, and manipulate it in different ways depending on what i'm doing?

    This sounds like something they may have invented before the mouse. Maybe back in the day it was a bunch of blocks all over your desk that you had to move, then eventually they all got consolidated into one universal interface device, the mouse.

    Step in the wrong direction if you ask me.

    1. Re:Lemme get this straight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My feelings exactly. We use mice because they are more efficient, not more intuitive. Why dumb down the machine's ability to have abstract inputs just because the user is too lazy to learn something? The only thing they find intuitive is maybe a nipple. Why not go all the way and dumb it down to the point where it's just a big nipple then? Absolutely anybody will understand computers then...

  28. Ok, you asked for it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't say who I am really am, but but you could say I certainly enjoy eating a very tasty and common mexican dish, if you know what I mean.

    207.126.99.173 and they have alternates on 207.126.99.143 and 207.126.99.165 as well.

    Go to work gentlemen,
    T

  29. Defense of tangible interfaces by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can understand why some people are appalled by tangible interface concepts. These are the same people that refered to GUIs as WIMPs (Windows, Icons, Menus, and Pointers). For some people, a command line, keyboard-coded interface just works. But it is not the best interface for everyone or every application.

    1) Media creation: Who still creates CAD drawings with a keyboard only? I used some early versions of Autocad that where keyboard-only -- they sucked. Sometimes a tangible pointer with a 1-to-1 interface mapping between a 2-D surface and the screen is superior. For artists, the use of an LCD graphics pad and pressure-sensitive stylus means much higher productivity and finer control. (I've even scene academic research suggesting that a two-mouse interface could improve productivity.)

    2) Mapping to the Realworld: Go aboard an aircraft carrier and look at how they keep track of flight-deck operations. A miniature replica of the flight deck and miniature aircraft provide an intuitive 1-to-1 mapping between the model and the real-world. I'd bet that they could improve flight deck operations if those little aircraft moved automatically to reflect actual locations and if manual movements of aircraft spawned automatic commands to flight deck personel.

    3) Multiuser interfaces: the demos of MIT's system that I have seen (a business-oriented supply chain visualization tool) leverage the table interface for multi-user applications. With the table, anyone around it can reach over and move a block. And everyone can easily see who moved the block.

    The power of tangible interfaces is that they can help create a more literal mapping between a digital artifact and the real-world. Sometimes less abstraction leads to better ease-of-use.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Defense of tangible interfaces by iantri · · Score: 1
      1) Media creation: Who still creates CAD drawings with a keyboard only? I used some early versions of Autocad that where keyboard-only -- they sucked. Sometimes a tangible pointer with a 1-to-1 interface mapping between a 2-D surface and the screen is superior.
      I don't know.. when you are doing CAD, don't you need accuracy? Is it really easier to hit just the right pixel, or type (35,25)?

      DISCLAIMER: I don't do CAD, don't really know anything about it.

    2. Re:Defense of tangible interfaces by thebigmacd · · Score: 1
      Who still creates CAD drawings with a keyboard only?

      Just about everyone. I know many many many engineers and have worked in many engineering offices and I have yet to see a digitizer in any of them. With 3D CAD these days there are a few 3D manipulators, but the mouse works just great with a scroll wheel etc. In CAD you don't use your pointer to place lines, you use smart snapping and parameters to define the drawing using exact values.

  30. Fascination with voice recognition, what gives? by Doomdark · · Score: 2, Insightful
    So far it only lacks a device for text input, like a keyboard, but maybe voice recognition will replace it?"

    I'm certainly not the first poster to comment on this, but I just don't understand why many assume voice input would be the preferred method? That it'd even be better than physical controls (be that keyboard, mouse, switches, joystick, whatever). There's enough aural noise in the environment, even without more; accidental commands, specificity, technical things... And except for niches where it does make sense (if one can not use his/her hands or even legs), there just doesn't seem to be much beyond 'coolness factor'? Just like you can get carpal tunnel syndrome, your throat can go sore etc.; there are no health benefits; people can generally point/click/type faster than talk; GUIs are multi-dimensional (2 currently), speech generally single-dimensional, so there's one less way to distinguish what was the target (ie. no location information)... and so on and on.

    Now as to Star Trek and other sci-fi movies (including Minority Report), isn't it fairly obvious why voice input was/is used? It's the easy way to indicate what a character is inputting, and what are the results! Even if it wasn't for futuristic touch, it's so much better for needs of movies and tv series than, say, keyboard input (keyboard and mouse are only shown when realism is needed). Directors are in general experienced and smart professionals, and know that voice input is a very good solution for THEIR problems. Just like even though there hasn't been the need to stay on call for tracing to work for decades now, they still always imply it is, in crime series, just because that's a cheap (albeit unrealistic) trick to add some suspense to plot. Just don't assume they are prophets that show what future will be; just what works for them.

    --
    I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    1. Re:Fascination with voice recognition, what gives? by Jesus+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Now as to Star Trek and other sci-fi movies (including Minority Report), isn't it fairly obvious why voice input was/is used? It's the easy way to indicate what a character is inputting, and what are the results!

      At least four times an episode, some red shirt sitting at his little desk on the bridge thinks to himself, "Goddammit, Kirk, use your damn keyboard already."

    2. Re:Fascination with voice recognition, what gives? by riffer · · Score: 1
      There's a strong fascination with the concept of speech recoginition because it goes so far towards bringing the concept of interacting with a computer as we interact with other people.

      People talk to their computers all the time, just as people often talk to other inanimate objects, or animals. It's anthromorphisizing, and reflects humanity's need to not be alone in our world.

      Even though a computer that responds to voice input has nothing to do with AI, it does an effective job of creating that illusion.

      And as has been pointed out, speech recoginition for the purposes of dictation is a massive time-saver. It's not something your average IT/geek does but doctor's and lawyers write TONS of papers, forms, etc.

      Last, but most important is the advantage speech recoginition gives to the handicapped. For the blind, the 'palegics, severe arthritis sufferers, etc. the benefits are HUGE.

      --
      In the darkness of future past, The magician longs to see. One chants between two worlds, "Fire, walk with me!"
  31. Linux geeks... by NineNine · · Score: 1

    I do not think in a few years we will be able to recognize a computer. It will have evolved that much.


    And the Linux geeks will be using *40* year old Unix commands, raving about vi and the great CLI.

  32. We've seen this before... by brain159 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At a glance, this sounds very much like the underlying interface stuff behind the Audiopad project (also from MIT, IIRC) - smart pucks moved around a projected image on the sensing surface. There were a few pucks which controlled various musical loops and one which acted as the microphone (the closer a loop was to the mic puck, the louder it played).

    Not that I'm doing anything down - my guess is they're now making more general use of the stuff they'd developed for Audiopad, or Audiopad was just the first application they'd come up with, or something along those lines. Nice to see the technology back again actually, I've got a video of Audiopad and it's pretty cool.

    1. Re:We've seen this before... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the same group. Watch the video; Audiopad is one of the applications demonstrated.

    2. Re:We've seen this before... by riffer · · Score: 1

      If you'd bothered to watch the video, you'd see it is the Audiopad project at MIT, and a lot more. No idea why your post got moderated as insightful.

      --
      In the darkness of future past, The magician longs to see. One chants between two worlds, "Fire, walk with me!"
  33. seen it before... by FzZzT · · Score: 0

    ...when it was used by the Asgard on Stargate SG-1

  34. does it mean by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    i will really be touching those hot cybergirls? ^^

  35. An intangible interface for computers by Entropy248 · · Score: 1

    I really want an intangible interface for computers! Holographics everywhere responding to my voice and movements. A virutal symphony of light, color, and sound as I dance gracefully throughout the room twirling in a ballet of control. Fucking MS Office 2012 sucks now. And that was just to make the text bold...

  36. wooow it's ./ed!!! by fiiz · · Score: 1

    Hey,

    slashdot managed an MIT web server! (the media lab's) That's not too bad for a saturday.

    ( the qt movi was embedded in the page, all 5MB of it...)

    f

    --

    yours ever, fz.
  37. Another Interesting point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Over half of computer users these days use them at some point to play games, and a good portion of those people play 3D games, oftentimes with a microphone to enhance gameplay.
    How are you supposed to control movement, enter text into the chat, and use voice communication all with just your voice?
    Personally, I haven't learned how to say three different things at once. But it may be interesting to try.

  38. Audiopad / Minority Report by raisin · · Score: 1

    re: the parent comment.. the audiopad is also done by james patten. so it was him that "already explored" it.

    the reason this work looks like the table in minority report is because john underkoffler, a former member of the same group at the media lab, was science & technology advisor for minority report and designed/spec'd/envisioned/whatever some of the devices used in the film. some of john's research on which that table was based:
    http://tangible.media.mit.edu/projects/Lum inous_Ro om/Luminous_Room.html
    john was also behind some of the other interfaces in the movie like the gloves and the way in which the holographic video worked.

  39. doesn't like giveaway programs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yikes. kindest regards accepted.

    mynuts won: trouble thinking beyond fear/hate/ego

  40. Yet another unimpressed reader by kidterra · · Score: 1

    *yawn* wow, you mean i can control stuff by moving my hands, and making gestures? and all i need is some holographic projection mechanism, a darkened room, and tons of space?

    this is nothing that hasn't been done with touchscreens. this just takes wear and tear out of the equation.

    --
    man i wish i was you
  41. Stargate SG-1 by Drathos · · Score: 1

    The concept makes me think of the controls the Asgard have on their ships. Placing/moving the "stones" can have all sorts of different effects.

    --
    End of line..
  42. No,This is perfect for Dyslexics and others! by Wacky_Wookie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is perfect for Dyslexics!

    And I should know, I am one.

    For Dyslexics and people who have never used a computer before, a command line only interface is a MASSIVE hurdle. A GUI speeds up the time it takes a dyslexic to learn about computers by a factor of 10. A tactile user interface would IMHO speed up the learning (and normal human/computer interactions) by a factor of 1000.

    For example I cannot spell, yet I'm asked to write the User Docs for my firms computer systems all the time. If I were in the land of Typewriters, I would probably not even have a job, let alone be asked to write for other people. So the GUI did for my computer interest, the same thing computers with spell check did to my Employability.

    As a dyslexic, a TUI (Tactile User Interface) matched with a good 2D or 3D GUI is the Holy Grail.

    In fact, a TUI would turn a 3D user interface into use full human/computer interaction method.

    The Human brain is designed to work in a 3D space with tactile feedback. Anything else requires the brain to waste resources on "translator system" in order to use things like command line only interfaces. And for Dyslexics, everything is mucked up in "translation".

    If computers had been command line only when I was in school, I would not have been interested in them and would not be doing what I am doing right now: Sitting in the office on Saturday night (I'm in London) Posting on Slashdot instead of ironing out the kinks these new computers that my firm just bought.

    Wait...maybe GUI's are bad J:)

    1. Re:No,This is perfect for Dyslexics and others! by AlgoRhythm · · Score: 1

      That's cool, I hadn't even considered the trouble a dyslexic would have with a text based interface.

      I was thinking as a musician (which some might consier to be another result of mis-wiring in the brain :-) that we are generally trying to minimize the amount of friction the interface contributes to the task of controlling the computer as an instrumnt. I believe this is one of the reasons it has taken so long for them to catch on in music in general, and are still rarely used in performance for anything other than playback (i.e. nothing interactive). This will make manipulation faster and more natural, and provide a better visual representation of the hierarchical structure inherent in most synthesis and effects algorithms.

      This is definitely a huge step in the right direction; now if only it will go into some kind of production (or I find time to research and build on myself).

    2. Re:No,This is perfect for Dyslexics and others! by be-fan · · Score: 1

      The primitive parts of the human brain are designed to work in 3D space. The more advanced parts are perfectly comfortable with an abstract means of communications such as speach or typing. Interestingly, it appears that typing requires seperate resources than speach, and that speah interferes with the resources used for thinking. So the keyboard interface is suprisingly powerful --- it takes advantage of the brain's well-developed abstract communication centers, and allows you to think and communicate at the same time.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    3. Re:No,This is perfect for Dyslexics and others! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The Human brain is designed to work in a 3D space with tactile feedback. Anything else requires the brain to waste resources on "translator system" in order to use things like command line only interfaces. And for Dyslexics, everything is mucked up in "translation"."

      Um. No. We exist in a 3d space, but that does not mean our brain can only handle (or is even "meant" to handle) 3d space.
      The mind is too amorphus to be bothered which such things and can just as easily handle non tactile elements (for instance sounds.. the whole language concept...etc.)as tacitle ones.
      There is no natural state of learning for the brain, only ones that work better for some or others.

  43. Neato by Jesus+2.0 · · Score: 1, Funny

    This project aims at conceiving better human-machine interfaces by using the concept of physical objects that the user can manipulate, to represent abstract computer data and commands.

    You mean they're going to invent the mouse and the keyboard? Awesome.

    1. Re:Neato by Jesrad · · Score: 1

      I think it's the other way around: instead of bringing an avatar of your hand into the abstract representation in the computer's screen (mouse pointer), it's the computer's data that will have avatars in your world.

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
  44. Re:Aww Slashdotted Already by Codifex+Maximus · · Score: 1

    I managed to read the page but can't get at any of the demonstration videos.

    Anyway, as for a pressure sensitive table, it sounds like a great idea but... I thought they were working on a table that read variances in the magnetic flux caused by hands moving over the table.

    --
    Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
  45. Also a "tangible" input device: Touchstream kbd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I am typing this on a Touchstream keyboard (by Fingerworks)--essentially a glide-pad, like on your average laptop, but keyboard-sized and with letters printed on. It's very interesting to use, and I've concluded that I'll stick to it ... bit weird to have a keyboard without any keys at first :) but you get used to it.

    It's definitely very cool to move the text cursor around, directly linked to the movement of your left index + middle finger (seemingly), and to be able to cut/paste by "picking" text with thumb + index and then "dropping" it :)

    Definitely an interesting piece of technology. I can recommend that keyboard, it's worth a try for any geek.

    Btw, this was already featured twice: /. story 1, /. story 2.

  46. Minority Report / TMG Connection by spellcheckur · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's not surprising this looks like Minority Report.

    John Underkoffler is a former member of the Tangible Media Group, and was the science advisor on the film.

    1. Re:Minority Report / TMG Connection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but the interface in Minority report was on a glass and in the air..right? that is not very tangible to me!!

  47. Beware geeks designing interfaces.. by adrianbaugh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just look what they did to emacs :-O
    Seriously, while this probably has niche applications (previous posters have mentioned a few that sound plausible) I don't see that it offers much to the conventional desktop user (a keyboard and mouse require much less movement than the shenanigans Tom Cruise got up to in the movie and, other than keeping office workers fit, these interfaces will just lower productivity).
    So what about wearable computers? Something you wear on your belt with a head-mounted display, designed to be used while walking along? Well, to me it doesn't make much sense in this context either: again, if you end up requiring much odd movement on the user's part it won't work. In my opinion the future is far more likely to look like a next-generation of Canon's eye-controlled (pupil-tracking) autofocus system to control a pointer on some head-mounted display coupled with (in the short term) an interface that minimizes the need for text input together with some kind of finger-based character input device[0] or (longer term) speech recognition of a standard where the software doesn't need training and can cope with background noise[1].

    [0] There was one mentioned on slashdot ages ago that looked a bit like a gripmaster (key for each finger plus the thumb), and text was typed by entering chords.
    [1] Incidentally, how much research has been done on using stereo input to speech recognition programs to reduce background noise? I would have thought that would help quite a lot, albeit at the expense of CPU time.

    --
    "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
    - JRR Tolkien.
  48. RSIs? by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 1

    Maybe it would be good for people who can't (or at least) shouldn't use a mouse anymore. I know at least one person that uses a tablet instead of a mouse because of his CTS.

    In addition it would certainly be nice to be able to have more than one focus point on your screen- especially in real time programs like audio and video production (even in non-realtime app, like if you've ever played with Reason you know what I mean). There's also something to be said for increased precision when you don't have to hold down the mouse button.

    All in all I think it's best that we not shoot down new ideas simply for being new and different. If we always did that we'd never get anything done.

  49. As a programmer ... by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    What I want for development is a wall size display with sensors that can tell where my fingers are and what my eyes are looking at. I want it to recognize gestures for scrolling around, linking, backing up, and so on. That's for examining code. When I write code, I want a keyboard. Voice control might be useful for a few queries, such as Who Wrote This, Where Is This Used, but in general I don't want to spend all day yakking to a computer.

    For home use, voice response for controlling a/v, lights, etc, that could be handy, to an extent. Door bell rings, the door camera shows on the TV, I yell TALK and the circuit comes alive so I can talk with the person at the door.

    Home use is the tricky stuff. Office use is pretty simplistic and regular, and you don't want much voice control because you'd wear yourself out at the end of the day.

    1. Re:As a programmer ... by riffer · · Score: 1

      So you want something like a gesture interface.

      --
      In the darkness of future past, The magician longs to see. One chants between two worlds, "Fire, walk with me!"
  50. What happens... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...when there's a small earthquake in your area, and those things bobble across the surface triggering all sorts of weird shit across countless computers..

  51. Some mere fancy, others, well...WOW by symbolic · · Score: 1


    Throughout time, there has been one hallmark of the existing user interface - despite the absence of any real tactile interface (save the keyboard), it's efficient. It seems like some of these interfaces strip away this efficiency and replace it with flexibility. This isn't a bad thing, but it does lead us to the point that for any given task, we'll need to decide if a given interface will provide the results we need.

    I have to say that out of all the examples included on the MIT web site, the one I see with the most promise is the Audiopad. It lends itself to working with music on a more abstract level - mixing, combining, tweaking - in an incredibly fluid manner. It's also very intuitive- you can figure out what's going on just by moving things around. Once you have some basic components at your disposal (a few rhythm tracks, a few musical sequences, a few effects, etc.), it doesn't require endless hours of studying or practicing to produce something interesting.

    What makes this even more compelling, is that there are some incredibly cool ways the Audiopad could be expanded. Why have just one mic? Why not two (left and right)? If you really wanted to make it interesting, carry the manipulation space into three dimensions, instead of just two. There are so many possibilities.

    The most important question, of course, is when ThinkGeek will begin selling these, because I think I want one.

  52. It might work by pkaminsk · · Score: 1

    Before making baseless assertions about new technologies, perhaps you should try out a new system that takes its lead from the infamous Minority Report interface. Kids love it and find it quite intuitive, even though it's only a first cut and could benefit from many improvements. There are many other similar projects out there that have met with varying degrees of success (I'll let you do your own research), but to spout aphorisms like "it won't work, because it's not a nipple" is stupid.

  53. Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by wwi · · Score: 1

    Remember the Italian Restaurant
    that was really a time-warp
    spaceship? Arguing with the
    waiter over the bill caused changes
    in the space-time continuum, driving
    the ship along.

  54. Now that we have controls for the O'Neill... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we can take the fight to the replicators.

  55. Voice recognition by InsomniaCity · · Score: 0

    but maybe voice recognition will replace it

    Yule b lucky

    --
    You cant make anything foolproof, they'll only invent better fools.
  56. New Essential Peripheral(s) by bettiwettiwoo · · Score: 1

    With a tangible interface comes a new essential peripheral: cleaning fluid. As an alternative: disposable rubber gloves.

    --
    The liver is evil and must be punished.
  57. Re:Defense of tangible interfaces: of CAD & mi by G4from128k · · Score: 1

    > > Who still creates CAD drawings with a keyboard only?

    Just about everyone. I know many many many engineers and have worked in many engineering offices and I have yet to see a digitizer in any of them. With 3D CAD these days there are a few 3D manipulators, but the mouse works just great with a scroll wheel etc.


    If you use the mouse, its not keyboard-only. The mouse is a tangible manipulator that provides a good correspondence between X-Y motion of the hand and X-Y motion on the screen. The keyboard is only used in CAD for mode-selection short-cuts, an occasional dimensional entry, or naming of objects/layers/files. Trying to do CAD without a mouse or pointer of any kind is quite hard and inefficient as far as I know.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  58. Re:Oh this is soooo cool.. by CWren · · Score: 1

    "Like in the movies" is no accident. John Underkoffler, a former student of Hiroshi Ishii, was the science advisor on "Minority Report".

    --
    Perception is mediated by expectation.
  59. Simular concept in comicbook by SealBeater · · Score: 0

    Ok, there was something simular in a recent Batman comic book I read.
    Basically, he wore these little lcd projecter things over his eyes, and had a
    pair of Minority Report gautlet things, and the information he needed was
    superimposed in front of him, monitors, virtual keyboard, everything you need
    floating right in front of you. He was able to type in the air, as if it were
    actually there. Imagine being to intensity or decrease the
    transparency of the controls, and you got something I would give a lot to play with.

    SealBeater

    --
    -- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
  60. Joy Button: So hot we had to make it red! by SimHacker · · Score: 1
    Ted Selker invented and developed the red "joy button" keyboard clitoris into a product (the thinkpad) while he was at IBM Almaden Research Center.

    According to IBM's ad in Time magazine, it was "so hot we had to make it red". Ted made an even hotter version in the lab, that had TWO "joy buttons" -- one for each hand!

    ONE joy button was so hot they made it red, but the TWO nipple keyboard was too hot even for IBM management to handle.

    They tried to come up with a keyboard that was robust enough to withstand all the abuse and body fluids afforded by the two nipples, by experimenting with various sizes of silicon implants and drainage troughs. But users were so enthustiastic that they quickly wore them out, popped the implants, broke their hinges, and busted their nuts.

    IBM tried as hard as they could to develop a drool and semen proof keyboard strong enough to support two joy buttons, but it was just too expensive to produce. Rumor has it that Lou Gerstner keeps the only surviving dual-nipple prototype installed on a thinkpad in his executive washroom.

    After having his life's work turned in to a corporate executive masturbation device, Ted left IBM to work at MIT Media Labs, where they appreciate the potential applications of digital masturbation to corporate executive sponsors. c(-;

    -Don

    --
    Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
  61. It does not have to be hard. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Who wants tired arms from searching on the computer or back pain from moving files? I'd prefer to do this stuff with a click of a mouse button.

    Let's use our imagination just a little. First, imagine that screen tech gets cheap enough so that anyone can have a 4x8 foot screen. Make a desktop of that screen and you will wonder how anyone ever made themselves stare at a tiny monitor all day. Papers could be laid out so that you can stare at all of the material needed at once and virtual desktops would really rock. A simple window manager like Window Maker would be nice, especially if you could substitute a mouse for one of these block devices. All of the reasonable windowm managers and desktop managers have menues available all over the screen so you don't have to go scrolling all the way to the "start" button. Who wants to scroll a mouse on a goofey little 6x6 inch pad to move around a real desktop? Gone for good will be Microsoft's hideous and non intuitive forest of tabs, right clicks on ugly icons and popup adverts.

    Free your mind and you will see where others are going.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  62. Re:Oh this is soooo cool.. by Aeiri · · Score: 1

    The only problem with the use of objects is: I know I'll lose them.

  63. Want your own? Too bad. by Bitmanhome · · Score: 1

    Apparantly Zowie Interactive made a similar toy. It was a pirate ship with serial cable, and moving the pieces around would make your computer respond. Product disappeared without a trace; very little is on the net, and eBay has nothing.

    Also apparantly, the company was bought by LEGO, so there may be hope.

    These guys have all available info, including a link to the above MIT paper.

    --
    Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
  64. Creates more problems than it solves by saikou · · Score: 1

    Just like that.
    Yes, it's cool to watch. But no:
    1. You have to learn it. That round thingies are used for this, star-like thingies for that
    2. Implementation shown is not logical. You either project supplemental interface from the top -- then any hand movement distorts it, or from the bottom, where hand movement and physical interface object distort/shadow it. Simple solution?
    Make the object virtual.

    Oh, wait. Isn't it the type of interface those hollywood designers made for Voyager, where you click, slide, and so on on touch panel?
    If avbailable, hand movement scanning technology can be added for those, who are handicapped and can't touch the panel with sustainable force for, say, sliding.
    Some form of force feedback or "bulging" of touchable pannel can be used to help track the range of movement.

    Imagine how many problems shown tangible interface will bring to someone who has arthritis or bad coordination, or difficulty to grip those thingies. It's much easier to virtualize them and make motions needed to control intuitive.

    Example of real life application -- touch-sensitive light switches, where you just tap it. Or you can slide it up for brighter light and down.

  65. old-style science fiction by penguin7of9 · · Score: 1

    While this may sound like it's really high-tech, these kinds of user interfaces have been part of science fiction movies and television shows for a long time. After all, you don't need a lot of props or complicated screen simulations to make it look good.

  66. Paranoia and keyboards. by Eevee · · Score: 1

    I have a simple question for you then. Why hasn't the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard penetrated the commercial market?

    If you truly could increase speed by 20%-40%, then you can reduce your support staff by the same. Large corporations are not stupid; spending a month on training in exchange of the ability to get rid of almost half your typing pool would have been done all over the place. Yet, during the post-war boom, you have no significant increase of DSK. Nor were there mass layoffs of unneeded staff.

    Is it possible that everybody in the corporate world was that hidebound, that stuck in the past that they would turn up their noses at a 20% savings? Computers came in like gunbusters, so it's hard to say it was due to a fear of new technology. Nor did businesses continue to refuse to use mice when they came out. The initial dislike was quickly overtaken once the advantages became apparent. Little of the workings of an officeplace have been unchanged over the last 50 years. What miracle of stubborness is there that is keeping the QWERTY keyboard around while all around it has changed?

    It sounds more and more like a paranoid fantasy. "If only they weren't suppressing it, Dvorak keyboards would have taken over the world."

    1. Re:Paranoia and keyboards. by eidechse · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you on about? Who said anything about Dvorak being suppressed?

      As for commercial market penetration: who knows? There's plenty of arguably superior products that have gone the way of the Dodo.

      As for corporate adoption: where do you get the idea that, if the speed increases are true, increased typing speed translates to a commensurate increase in overall productivity; or, that the initial resistance to adoption of equipment is the same as changing a basic, and arguably perfectly serviceable, method of using said equipment?

      Perhaps it is you who are experiencing the paranoid fantasy.

    2. Re:Paranoia and keyboards. by Eevee · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you on about?

      Well, that's what I mean. A lot of Dvorak users seem to be worse than Mac users. (Yes, I know that it's impossible to be more fanatical than a Mac user. Bear with me.) It's almost as if I've insulted their faith.

      As for corporate adoption: where do you get the idea that, if the speed increases are true, increased typing speed translates to a commensurate increase in overall productivity;

      You've thrown me for a loop there. Isn't the point behind Dvorak increasing productivity?

      There are certain professions where improving one portion will not help increase productivity. For example, if you could instantly have your code appear on the screen merely by thinking, it still wouldn't speed things up appreciably; most of your time would still be spent on designing and debugging.

      However, the typing pool isn't one. You had a straightforward system: the exectutive dictated to a girl from the steno pool who took it to a girl in the typing pool to convert into letters and memos. The faster the typing, the more documents were produced. We're not talking rocket science here.

      a basic, and arguably perfectly serviceable, method of using said equipment

      Which is my point. QWERTY works. Dvorak works. But neither is significantly better than the other.

    3. Re:Paranoia and keyboards. by eidechse · · Score: 1
      Well, that's what I mean. A lot of Dvorak users seem to be worse than Mac users. (Yes, I know that it's impossible to be more fanatical than a Mac user. Bear with me.) It's almost as if I've insulted their faith.

      Agreed. Although I'll admit to being an...afficianado, zealots are just annoying.

      You've thrown me for a loop there. Isn't the point behind Dvorak increasing productivity?

      I don't know if this is the focus of most Dvorak users. I've certainly heard it argued that Dvorak is faster, and I've been convinced that it can be. But I wouldn't try to convince anyone that they should try it purely for reasons of speed.

      There are certain professions where improving one portion will not help increase productivity. For example, if you could instantly have your code appear on the screen merely by thinking, it still wouldn't speed things up appreciably; most of your time would still be spent on designing and debugging.

      I don't know that I agree here...I find coding practices to be highly subjective. Speed may help some and hinder others.

      However, the typing pool isn't one. You had a straightforward system: the exectutive dictated to a girl from the steno pool who took it to a girl in the typing pool to convert into letters and memos. The faster the typing, the more documents were produced. We're not talking rocket science here.

      Of course more speed results in more productivity in the typing pool. But implicit in this example is the use of mechanical typewriters. QWERTY's main purpose was to keep the linkages from jamming. Not speed/productivity.

      Which is my point. QWERTY works. Dvorak works. But neither is significantly better than the other.

      I said, and agree, that both are useful; but not that they are equal. But again, this is highly subjective. I find that there are compelling arguments to the fact that Dvorak:
      • can be faster
      • is more comfortable
      • is less likely to cause RSI
      But all of this is pointless to argue about. I would encourage anyone interested to try Dvorak and then to decide for themserves. I once made the same arguments you mention; then I tried Dvorak and haven't gone back.
    4. Re:Paranoia and keyboards. by riffer · · Score: 1
      It's a fallacy to say "Since this isn't the most popular and well-established standard, it can't possibly be better than what everyone uses."

      There was a rather good book written on why mediocricity rises to the top. Unfortunately I can't dig-up the title. But essentially, it almost always comes down to issues of money and time. WHat's cheapest and/or quickest becomes king.

      Maybe the Dvorak keyboard layout is better. But the sheer momentum of the QWERTY standard is huge. Even if there were significant long-term savings in terms of productivity, most companies will never consider doing something that would require buying hundreds (or thousands) of new keyboards, reconfiguring the workstations and of course training their employees. And of course there's the very strong human resistance to change.

      It happened with Beta vs. VHS. The Beta videotape standard is better in terms of both sound and video quality. It's a measurable, scientific fact. But because VHS was smaller, people liked it more (and other factors). So we've been stuck for decades with a de-facto video standard that's shitty quality.

      Remember the lesson of the monkeys and the banana.

      --
      In the darkness of future past, The magician longs to see. One chants between two worlds, "Fire, walk with me!"
  67. Re:Defense of tangible interfaces: of CAD & mi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well I am an engineer. And I use (like my co-workers) a 4 button puck on a pad AND a keyboard. Screw the mouse and pull down menus. The keyboard is used for initiating commands (instead of finding a menu - takes too long to move). 4 buttons allow for more options when you get to where you're going.

    And the best way is a puck on an LCD. You know, like paper and pencil; the most intutive interface.

    The upside of computers is how easy change is.

    I want a keyboard where all the secondary keys are not crowded on the right side where my mouse/puck/tablet goes. My keyboard is shifted nearly 10 inches right so that the QWERTY portion is centered.

  68. Want to change the volume of your MP3 player? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Want to change the volume of your MP3 player? Just put a block on it and turn like you would a radio knob.

    Yeah...but can I turn the volumn up to 11?

  69. I feel that my brain thinks in 2D, not 3D by inQ · · Score: 1

    When imagining a physical environment, it feels more like a 2D depth map, rather than a 3D vector field. If I try to imagine a very 3D environment, I feel I cannot grasp the scene completely. I guess most people are like this. And I guess this is more natural to implement in the brain (A 2D array of neurons extends to occupy a 3D space, but a 3D array of neurons cannot extend b/c we have only 3D physical space).

    Does anyone have more information on this?

  70. I'm gonna have to disagree on one point. by DesertFalcon · · Score: 1

    "Anything else requires the brain to waste resources on "translator system" in order to use things like command line only interfaces."

    That's the part I don't agree with. It took a while to learn the *nix command line interface, but now that I know it, I can think in it. Stringing together something like

    tail -f /var/log/messages | grep -v pop | awk blah blah blah

    takes no more thought (for me) than just deciding what I want. In fact, I think in terms of the command shell so much that once when I wanted to hear both sides of a phone conversation, my first thought was "tail -f Emily's phone", and another time I wanted more water in my glass, and my first thought was "cat faucet > glass" I am not joking.

    --
    --- 11 meters/second, or 24 miles per hour - the airspeed velocity of an unladen European swallow. Really.
  71. Voice Command vs. Voice Dictation by lenester · · Score: 1

    There's an important distinction to be made between controlling the interface vocally, and simply dictating text. The former has all of the problems you mentioned; the latter not so much, especially for natural language. (Coding... not so good.)

    Since years before the Tablet PCs came out, I've envisioned a letter-sized PDA, with the standard stylus interface and voice dictation. Stylus is excellent for interface control, simple and efficient; but I regularly found myself using my old Palm III as a place to write down ideas, and while the nifty collapsing keyboard made that MUCH easier, it was hard to use without a stable flat surface to put it on, and I certainly couldn't use it while walking or driving. Better still, with today's larger screens and more powerful processors, you could create a true virtual sketchpad utilizing concepts from this tactile interface design: the ability to write anywhere, in two dimensions (with rotation, too), then draw circles and lines connecting phrases, and little sketches here and there, all of which are kept track of as objects, and made mobile -- with the connecting lines kept track of! (otherwise I'm describing the average paint program.) A thought-organizing system that doesn't have to know or care what you mean, but helps you remember how you'd linked it together, and allows you to look at it all from different angles. Sort of like a much more intuitive, real-time-modifiable equivalent to <a href="http://www.kurzweilai.net/brain/">the KurzweilAI.net Brain</a>. Then again, I've yet to actually look at a Tablet PC. Is something like this implemented?

    But I digress. The basic point of speech interfaces is this: when you're sitting down at a table and doing nothing but interacting with your computer, mouse and keyboard are tremendously effective. Not so much when you've got other things you want to do with your time, or with your hands. The current interface is, in a nutshell, DEMANDING. It allows for very little real-world multitasking.

    1. Re:Voice Command vs. Voice Dictation by Doomdark · · Score: 1
      Good points... and another obvious niche for voice input I didn't mention was car drivers. When you need your hands (and feet) for something else, keyboard, mice etc. aren't viable options.

      It's also not so much that I think existing options are perfect; but just like CRTs for displays, or combustion engine for powering cars, competition hasn't been able to improve on them enough to make them obsolete. Yet?

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes