Sharp Zaurus SL-C860 Announced For Japan

An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices.com reports that Sharp will introduce a new member in its Linux-based Zaurus PDA family in the Japanese market on Nov. 27, 2003. The SL-C860 appears to be a more powerful and feature-rich version of the much-reviewed SL-C750/760. The device boasts a 400MHz Intel PXA255 processor equipped with 128MB of Flash memory (65MB available for user programs) along with 64MB of SDRAM memory, has a 640x480 resolution full-VGA color display, and runs an embedded Linux operating system based on Metrowerks's OpenPDA handheld device software stack."

Comments

Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[zymano]

I like it. I also like the widescreen with Qwerty keyboard. These could take marketshare from the ultrathin pc's . If the price is around 200-300 dollars then I may buy one.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[eyeye]

lol.
No new pda except budget ones come out in that price range.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[gladbach]

try more like 6-8 hundred.... Its definately cool, but man... too bad it costs as much as some laptops...

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[zymano]

6 -8 hundred ? I would rather have a laptop.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[JanneM]

Well, yes and no. A laptop is too large and unwieldy for some applications; you would not have travel directions and times on a laptop and run around in an airport or trainstation with it in your hands, for instance. Nor would you likely use a laptop in a semicrowded commuter train.

I am lusting for this thing, not the least due to the included dictionaries. I can't help but wonder, however, if what I would really find useful was a machine with a similar screen and memory size, but simpler software, slower (and thus more energy efficient) processor, and without all that connectivity. It would be useful as a satellite to the laptop which is now my main machine.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[breman]

Indeed, I wouldn't mind it being a little bigger if i could throw in a little 9.5" HDD.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[Eunuchswear]

You want to stick a nine and a half inch disk drive into a PDA?

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[thrillseeker]

You want to stick a nine and a half inch disk drive into a PDA?

That's measured in "geek male" inches.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[Eunuchswear]

Yup, I can just see it. The only place he can think of sticking his "hard disk" is into a PDA.

Sad.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, but its much easier lugging this around than a laptop, when most of (the daily routine) performance of a laptop can be done on this.

For $200-$300, dude, go get a Dell.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[RevAaron]

Except that the Qwerty keyboard isn't anywhere even remotely as useful as a a real keyboard. It is functionally a thumboard, though larger. There are small devices with real keyboards, for example, the Jornada 72x or the Sigmarion III. They are both larger than the C760, but a device could be made somewhere in between. I can touch type on the kb on a Sigmarion III or a Jornada 720, but not on the C760.

But for 200-300? Ha! Yeah right. The Sig III isn't too bad at $525 imported, but the C760 goes for up to $800...

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[RevAaron]

I used to put an actually small HD into my PDA. PCMCIA drive, the same kind as found in the iPod. I only had a 2 GB drive, was available up to 30 GB or so. Hell, the 2 GB was a steal- only $70. Definately can't find 2 GB storage for that kind pf price with SD or CF.

But then I traded in my Jornada 720 and Newton (yes, the 2 GB drive worked with the Newton!) for a Zaurus C760 and lost all of my precious, precious storage. I feel like my legs have been chopped off with these two chinsy 128 MB SD cards.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[pkhuong]

IBM CF Micro-drive. :)

I'm surprised the Zaurus doesn't have PCMCIA, though.

Re:Evolution of PDA into MicroPC

[RevAaron]

Bah, the IBM CF Microdrive blows. Way too expensive for the amount of space; you may as well just get real flash. Maybe someday the tide will turn enough to make it a good idea, but for now it is silly. The biggest Microdrive you can get is only 1 GB.

Yes, there is a price difference, but from my quick look, it only seems to be around $50-60 more for a CF Flash card that is 1 GB over the 1 GB microdrive. If you are spending that much on a card already, why not go for something that is a ton faster and uses a lot less juice? The Microdrive just isn't the same. $200 for a 1 GB Microdrive vs $60 for a 2 GB PCMCIA... $200 would probably get you a 10 GB drive.

Although, on just about any PDA with CF slot, you can get a CF -> PCMCIA adapter. It sticks out and is clunky as hell, but a lot of the adapters I have seen have a bendable cable part, meaning you have the adapter in your CF slot, the ribbon cable around the top of the unit, and the PCMCIA drive duct taped to the back of your PDA. If I was hard up for storage I would do it, but man it would be a nasty kludge.

And on the Zaurus your battery life would be next to nothing afterword. On a SL-5500 or a C750 you'd probaly get an hour of life out of your battery. :)

The Zaurus is not large enough to really accomodate PCMCIA without making it even thicker or bigger in some way. The pics may be decieving, but the Zaurus C7x0 PDAs are not large at all, smaller than an iPAQ 36xx with a CF sleeve.

neato Japanese display

[kaan]

We're still stuck with old school pixels here in the U.S., but according to the article, the Zaurus will have a 640x480 pixil display. Isn't that similar to a pixel, but, like, cooler and stuff?

Re:neato Japanese display

[MoronGames]

Well, it's used to display Linux. That means it must be better!

Re:neato Japanese display

[Anonymous Coward]

actually, pixil is the name of a new antidepressent drug that computer makers and drug companies have worked on together for the past few years. supposed to also correct erectile disfunction while browsing porn sites, too.

Re:neato Japanese display

[incom]

from:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books /faq/funnies.html

"There are other methods. As every good sysadmin knows, it is part of standard practise to send data to the screen of interesting variety to keep all the pixies that make up your picture happy. Screen pixies (commonly mis-typed or re-named as 'pixels') are categorised by the type of hat they wear (red, green or blue) and will hide or appear (thereby showing the colour of their hat) whenever they receive a little piece of food. Video cards turn data into pixie-food, and then send them to the pixies - the more expensive the card, the better the food, so the better behaved the pixies are. They also need constant stimulation - this is why screen savers exist. To take your suggestions further, you could just throw the random data to console, thereby letting the pixies consume it. This causes no heat to be produced at all, keeps the pixies happy and gets rid of your data quite quickly, even if it does make things look a bit messy on your screen. Incidentally, as an ex-admin of a large ISP who experienced many problems attempting to maintain a stable temperature in a server room, I would strongly discourage people sending the data they do not want out to the network. The fairies who do the packet switching and routing get annoyed by it as well."

Nice specs

[Lehk228]

I like what i am hearing in terms of hardware (as powerful as my family's old gateway astro and awesome resolution for the display size, but I think the keypad could use some work, the round arrow keys i see as a problem, the first thing i would get with it would be one of those folding or soft rubber keyboards and the second would be a big CF card to boost the storage, 128 is kinda small

Re:Nice specs

[POds]

When PDAs start to equal the power of my desktop, i think its time to start upgrading?

Nahh, im tight and im running linux so i dont have to!

But its interesting to watch the advancement of smaller computers approach the speed of your p2 400Mhz PC... I only recently upgraded from a P2 233 :) when i bought a 400Mhz compaq, which is now a 266Mhz Firewall/Router.

Intereting!

Re:Nice specs

[eyeye]

Rather a SD/MMC card to boost storage, then you can leave the CF card slot free for a wireless cf card etc..

Re:Nice specs

[Lehk228]

I hope they hurry Up and make a PDA as powerful as *MY* desktop (Athlon 2200+/512megs/radeon9700pro), though my copy of XP has slowed down a ton, i didn't notice it till i created a clean account and everything was 10 times faster, i guess that would explian why they put linux on the PDA, in addition to the fact that winCE is neither free as in beer nor speech

Re:Nice specs

[mtnharo]

I have the older version, the SL-5000D. Great little machine, once you dump the original Sharp supplied rom image anyway. I have both CF and SD cards for it and a wireless card for the CF slot. But unless they are using a top notch chipset for the SD/MMC cards that they can provide a Linux driver for, CF cards will be much faster for IO. Transfering data to CF over network or USB link to my Zaurus has almost no delay, whereas writing to the SD card can't keep up with the transfer speed. Makes putting music on it for plane trips a bit of a pain. The SD card is great for storing programs and personal data on though, since the write speed won't come into play very often, and it alleviates the small built-in RAM size on the 5000D model.

Re:Nice specs

[FromWithin]

Mais non. The keyboard is really nice. Photo's are always deceiving. They are raised up and have just the right amount of clickage. Exactly as clicky as the keys on a Nokia 6110 phone, in fact. It's very nice to type on.

Re:Nice specs

[RevAaron]

No, that doesn't explain why they put Linux on their PDA. The reason- at least for Sharp- is superior Japanese support in Qtopia and probably to make it a few bucks cheaper skipping over the WinCE license. But mostly the former.

WinCE is a ton faster then the Linux PDA setup on the Zaurus. I've posted various numbers in threads here before, but I'm not up to doing the digging, but you're more than welcome to.

Especially bad is launch times on the Zaurus. Almost all apps launch in a second or less on any new PocketPC, notable exception being Adobe Acrobat Reader. On my C760, launch times are abysmal. Opera take 6 seconds. Terminal takes 6-12 seconds. Qpdf2 8-12. Addressbook, Calendar, Todo all 4-5, unless you leave them permanently in RAM "hidden," which is called "fast load" in the land of the Zaurus. It's darn near sad.

Even worse is the pause you get when you first turn on the C760. For instance, if I press the hotkey to open up my addressbook- I've got some bloke standing there waiting so I can get his number. I press the button and first the Zaurus blinks on, but has to "warm up" for 15+ seconds, and then a few more for the Addressbook to come up.

URL

[BJH]

Here's the press release on Sharp Japan's site.

Main features:
1) Built-in J-E/E-J translation software
2) CF and SD memory cards in the Zaurus can be accessed directly from a PC just by linking the PC and Zaurus with a USB cable.
3) Can use the AirH", FreeD, bitWarp PDA and Yahoo BB wireless services.

Re:URL

[Anonymous Coward]

Your sig is out of date:

Searched the web for b. Results 1 - 10 of about 366,000,000. Search took 0.18 seconds.

Re:URL

[RevAaron]

I suppose that the translation software is new.

The CF and SD card trick is just that- a nice script or two. Unless it shows up as mass storage- e.g. no driver on Win2k needed- and I'm guessing it isn't. I hope it is, because I already can "access my CF and SD memory cards directly," on the Z via Samba.

And #3? Pfft. The drivers will probably be available for the other models- I hope. Is it just me, or is it a big disturbing that they release a whole new ROM when there's a driver or two to add? DOes that say something about the convenience of installing drivers for Linux?

Re:URL

[BJH]

The page says that "no driver is required", so it's most likely mass storage.

Cut the crap

[The Munger]

The device boasts a 400MHz Intel PXA255 processor equipped with 128MB of Flash memory (65MB available for user programs) along with 64MB of SDRAM memory, has a 640x480 resolution full-VGA color display

OK, OK. Just give us the specs we need: What's it like for porn?

Re:Cut the crap

[mlk]

Self answering question:
has a 640x480 resolution full-VGA color display

Re:Cut the crap

[Anonymous Coward]

I deeply regret to inform you, that the size of the screen will NOT do justice to the goatsecx man. Get a laptop with a 20" screen.

Re:Cut the crap

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, OK. Just give us the specs we need: What's it like for porn?

Insertion can be difficult, but once in, the device performs satisfactorily. The aggressively non-tubular form-factor is a bold leap of design, and only time will tell if this becomes standard on other vibrators.

Re:Cut the crap

[RevAaron]

Heh, funny you should mention that.

My litmus test for any browser is opening a bunch of porno sites in tabs (or "window list" ala Opera for the Z), the kind with a million tiny thumbnails and a few annoying pop ups. Then open up a bunch of the images in new tabs. If the browser chokes it isn't fit for me.

And both NetFront (comes with the C7x0s) and Opera 6 (comes with the SL-5x00s, but installable on C7x0) pass this test with flying colors.

I figured out this test a while back and it works good as a general predictor for how the browser will behave when I'm using it for my daily work. In reality, I don't look at any porn very often, but it's a good stress test.

Re:Cut the crap

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

full-VGA color

Does anybody know the actual color depth on this thing?

The picture of it.

[ForestGrump]

I remember back in high school (1998), there was this guy who went around with a little laptop (about the same size as the sharp in the picture is).

He used it to play starcraft during class.
Anyway, it didn't fly too well with the teacher. Rumor has it that his father found out and hit him over the head with the laptop- smattering it into bits and thus rendered it useless.

just a memory triggered by the picture.
-Grump

Re:The picture of it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember back in high school when YOU ARE A FAG AND SHOULD DIE

Re:The picture of it.

[Anonymous Coward]

About the same size? This is smaller than an inch-high stack of 3x5 cards! Such laptops didn't exist in 1998.

Re:The picture of it.

[ForestGrump]

Maybe its just that being a few years removed from high school, things seemed better then.
heh.

its kinda strange. When I was in high school, there were friends, acquaintences and people you just didn't like.

High school friends are people I still talk to now.
Acquaintence are: ah yes. I remember you. you're automatically a distant friend.
Foe: I don't remember you...you weren't a friend then, prolly won't be now.
acquaintence or foe. no grey area.

life is strange that way.

-Grump.

Re:The picture of it.

[Anonymous Coward]

He used it to play starcraft during class.

Huh? Me, Starcraft in class? Never, of course not! Why would I do something so ridiculous...

Oh wait, you weren't accusing me of it, never mind then :D

Re:The picture of it.

[Chris Pimlott]

It's a tad bigger, but perhaps you're thinking of a Toshiba Libretto? There were a few models out by 1998 with Pentium processors that should have been able to handle Starcraft.

Re:The picture of it.

[RevAaron]

I doubt the laptop was as small as the Zaurus. The Zaurus in the picture is as small as most PDAs, very close to an iPAQ 3xxx, just a titch thicker.

Difference from the 760?

[pez]

Reading the specs, nothing jumped out at me as being new when you compare it to the excellent C760. Am I missing something?

Product Specs

Review #1

Review #2

Re:Difference from the 760?

[Big Jojo]

Well, they're saying that they now have some new USB software ... seems like they're finally starting to take advantage of the hardware capabilities to offer a composite device that can simultaneously:

• Act like a network link ... using the same proprietary protocol as earlier Zaurii, which needs special drivers for every OS. (They have part of an excuse of hardware limitations. Only part of one.)
• Act like a usb mass storage ... like any old flash memory product, using standard drivers for pretty much every OS. (There are technical awkwardnesses there, since that's a block level protocol not a remote filesystem protocol. Maybe they're using PTP, like a camera would but for non-JPG files.)

Or maybe you have to reconfigure something. The descriptions are unclear; if the Japanese text was clear, the translations certainly lost it.

There's also gobs of translation software, Japanese-to-English and vice versa.

... or more simply: updated software is the main difference they've described.

Re:Difference from the 760?

[tangledweb]

It looks like the hardware is exactly the same, although they seem to be showing photos of the small battery (a la SL-C750) but quoting battery life equivalent to the large battery that comes with the SL-C760.

Feeding the press release to babelfish it looks like they are just pushing new software features. Easier USB connection to a PC, JP->EN->JP transation and some different software included (Eg Mah Jong and a PDF viewer).

I love my SL-C750 and wish they would start releasing them outside Japan. The release says they will make 20000 per month, so it seems that official international sales are not planned.

Re:Difference from the 760?

[pez]

It appears indeed that there is *no* hardware change in this model vs. the 760, which begs the question "why the name change"?

Zaurus Forum thread on the topic

I'm waiting for the same 7x0 form factor with built-in WiFi and Bluetooth, and perhaps a slighly larger screen. Although the 7x0's 640x480 screen is absolutely stunningly beautiful for a PDA, it could be about an inch wider and still fit in the enclosure.

Re:Difference from the 760?

[Jagasian]

I am waiting for a few more things to be integrated in addition to WiFi and Bluetooth. I want integrated GPS and mobile phone. THAT would be a device that I would always carry around because it would always have a use.

Obligatory SCO post

[Sp4c3 C4d3t]

So does SCO get $699 profit from each one sold ;)?

Re:Obligatory SCO post

[Anonymous Coward]

shut up

How long...

[clifgriffin]

till this thing runs Windows?

(Laugh, it's a play on "How long before it runs Linux?")

Blogzine

Re:How long...

[Anonymous Coward]

ROFLMFAO!

Why do I post on Slashdot? To plug myself:
Fortress of Insanity

Re:How long...

[Anonymous Coward]

Leave your sig in your sig.

Lameness avoiding bla bla bls baslfafdgsdfgsdfgsdfg 1 minute later....

Re:How long...

[Neo-Rio-101]

Well, you could install "bochs" on it, but you'd wait all week for Windows to install on an emulated environment running at 400Mhz.

I admit it.

[zymano]

I am cheap.

Getting there...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's nice, but it needs to be less than 1cm thick, and needs to cost less than $500. An iBook is $1100, and is about four times the computer. An iBook is obviously much bigger, but there's no way I'd carry around a laptop and a Zaurus, so the Zaurus needs to be able to replace the basic laptop functions, and be much cheaper to be worth buying.

Re:Getting there...

[penguin7of9]

Why do people keep bringing up iBooks whenever there is any discussion of handhelds? iBooks are bricks by modern laptop standards: nearly five pounds and with a huge footprint. Apple has never produced an ultra-portable laptop.

Now, the Panasonic Toughbook, Fujitsu Lifebook, and Sony ultraportables are serious competitors for these kinds of handhelds. Some of them are lighter than two pounds, and some of them are actually quite small. Check out dynamism.com for what's available in tiny x86-based laptops. The Sony U101 is pretty close to a PDA, actually.

Re:Getting there...

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, if the Zaurus can do nearly as much as your iBook and is smaller by a big margin, weighs less and is pocketable, than why wont you pay nearly as much as the iBook for a more portable computer than the Book ?

Beats me, how you want everyting - best performane and chep prices at the same time.

Re:Getting there...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Sony U101 is $2200. The Fujitsus are $1700 and up. Both of these will break if you look at them sideways. The Panasonic Toughbook is also $1700 and up. None of these computers have any supported Unix-like OS.
My laptop needs to be cheap and rugged, and Windows is not even an option.
iBooks are certainly not the lightest laptops, but they're very solidly built, they're relatively cheap, and they run Unix.

Re:Getting there...

[RevAaron]

The iBook is certainly very far from being a tiny ultra-pico-light, but it is very small for a laptop in its price class. Go to a store sometime, BestBuy or something simiilar, and have a look at what most x86 laptops look like. Thicker and heavier are most of them. Yes, you can get a Sony U101, but that's twice the price and half the speed. Not in the same class as the iBook.

People usually bring up the iBook because it's a cheap and good laptop. A lot of the time when handhelds come up here, it's in discussion of some new $800 PDA. Inevitably someone realizes "wow, I could get an iBook for not much more than that!" and says it. It isn't because they're thinking of using the iBook as a laptop.

And no, the Sony U101 is still very far from a PDA. If it wasn't so tall it'd make a pocketable handheld PC, but it's not a PDA. Doesn't have a touch screen either. And going from a Zaurus to a U101 as a price increase is huge- someoen in the market for a PDA wouldn't upgrade to one of those. But they might to an iBook.

Re:Getting there...

[Anonymous Coward]

iBooks are certainly not the lightest laptops, but they're very solidly built, they're relatively cheap, and they run Unix.

They do no such thing. They run Mach with a BSD-compatibility layer. And their GUI is Apple-proprietary and compatible with nothing else (and relies on Objective-C). It's better than Windows, but that's not saying much, and it is certainly not "UNIX" in any interesting sense of the word.

pixel resolution is killer

[lingqi]

I was browsing the 760/650 at Tokyo (ha! isn't it great to be in japan?), and you just have to be impressed by the 200pixel-per-inch (i think higher than that, actually) resolution on the screen. It is very difficult (if possible at all) to notice the individual pixels, so the graphics look very sharp (really, no pun).

Have to see it to be a believer though - but nontheless I am not plucking down 600 dollars on a toy that I know I won't use very much.

For the same money I can get an FZ-10 (panasonic lumix camera), or even a sanyo SD based video camcorder (about the size of a motorola startac phone folded, 5.6x optical resolution etc) - either of which would get a LOT more use.

However, a zaurus PDA is definitely on top of the "stuff I will buy if I win the lottery" list.

Re:pixel resolution is killer

[RevAaron]

Folks in the US will be able to see a similar screen soon enough- their local BestBuys, OfficeMaxes, etc etcs should start carrying the Toshiba e805 which also has a 640x480 screen. See this thread.

Depending on how you use it, the Zaurus can be worth the money. As a PDA, the software blows and it's over priced. As a computer, it works pretty good as long as you're willing to spend a lot of time working around Linux annoyances. The C760 (C750's batt life blows too hard) plus a good external keyboard and you can have a workstation-in-a-pocket.

I've been using one PDA or another for over 2 years as my "primary computer" and don't regret it at all. :)

I dont see the difference

[Anonymous Coward]

C760

CPU: PXA255 400MHz
FLASH: 128MB, 65MB free
SDRAM: 64MB
SD/MMC, CF slot

C860

CPU: PXA255 400MHz
FLASH: 128MB, 65MB free
SDRAM: 64MB
SD/MMC, CF slot

Additionally it looks like power consumption, size, weight - basically everything I looked at is the same. WTF? A new whole new revision for what amounts to software only?

Re:I dont see the difference

[drycht]

One difference I believe is the inclusion of more English-Japanese and Nihongo-Eigo dictionaries and other additional software. The main difference seems to be the addition of USB support and that is about it.

Re:I dont see the difference

[really?]

Price cuts look bad.

Price reductions when a new model comes out look "natural".

DOS emulator?

[CarlDenny]

VGA graphics + 64M of disk space. Meeemories.

I want my old DOS 5.0 machine emulated. 400Mhz ARM procesor should be enough to emulate a 16Mhz 386, although I suspect emulating the memory controller would be trouble. I demand Wing Commander and Windows 3.1 on my PDA. Maybe a bit of Ultima 7.

Re:DOS emulator?

[incom]

http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/ It doesn't run everything, but it's getting there. Also, I'm pretty sure there is a native linux Ultima7 client somewhere.

Re:DOS emulator?

[drycht]

Look at the old HP LX200 Palmtops. They might be 8Mhz, but they can handle suspiciously many DOS games. I've gotten Prince of Persia and The Secret of Monkey Island to work on mine at least.

Also note that the clamshell design is one of the things that gave the HP LX100/200 suck a die-hard user base. (That and a viable OS)

Re:DOS emulator?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're old enough, maybe you remember the Archimedes, the first computer that used the ARM processor (the ARM was designed for it, good old days). One of the nifty software things was an Intel 80186 emulator, I played dos games, including flightsims on it, even though the ARM processor was running at 8Mhz, the emulator managed to get decent speed out of the 'pc'.

The PXA255@400Mhz should be able to emulate 486 at ~40Mhz i think, if you hand optimise the code.

Greets

Re:DOS emulator?

[strmcrw]

actually exult, an ultima 7 engine, runs on Zaurus SL-5500 and up - native

Re:DOS emulator?

[RevAaron]

AFAIK the emulators for the Zaurus aren't nearly as good, but there are a couple really good x86 DOS emulators out there for WinCE. I never bothered trying out Win 3.1, but with the apps I was playing with it worked like a charm. Very fast and accurate emulation... supoprts a lot more than the Zaurus's dosbox.

Re:DOS emulator?

[RevAaron]

DOS- a viable OS. Heh.

That said, I used to be a DOS die hard, until I discovered linux at 14. But it was the family computer, so I couldn't wipe Windows and put on Linux, especially back then (94). DOS was swell- I never had touched Win9x until I was given a Win98 machine at work when I started college. :P

That said, WinCE is a lot more of a "real OS" than DOS ever was. No, all of your crusty old DOS apps don't run without an emulator, but for the most part there is something better to replace them with on WinCE, provided you're willing to take the time to learn. Except Lotus Agenda. No replacement for that. And yes, I've a clam shell device myself which I cling to- it's my primary computer.

Re:DOS emulator?

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Here's the project to convert U7 to run on modern platforms, using the original data files: http://exult.sourceforge.net/. Even has a Zaurus port.

Who cares?

[CodeYoddler]

Who cares, its Linux! =P

cacko

[mirko]

You may also visit cacko's web site to check their dedicated custom Linux distro for Sharp handheld devices.
screenshot

No builtin 802.11 or Bluetooth?

[pergamon]

I was really hoping for builtin wireless access like in the SL-6000.

PDAs are dead

[Audent]

I mean, let's face it, the cellphone market is killing these devices. I used to dream of the teeny tiny cellphone with a separate but wirelessly connected PDA (bluetooth probably) that would allow me to keep my address book/phone numbers/diary synched in one place but the phone makers aren't making the phones smaller with the same features (and thus good battery life) they're packing them full of stuff I don't want (camera anyone?) AND all the PDA functionality as well. Palm is losing out to HP these days. It's all over red-rover, long since time to sell the stock and move on.
Am I wrong on this?

Re:PDAs are dead

[POds]

Did you know your PDA can also become your phone? Its true and this type of thing isnt going to stop there. You'r PDA may one day function as the remote control to your media collection in your house/car/workplace or tempreture control in home/car etc.

Check out this PCMCIA GSM mobile phone

And the mobile phone in a CF Memory card

PDA's arnt dead. Nor will they be in the short term. PDA's will adapt to become other devices such as mobile phones and remote controls with more hardware and software functionality built into them and also in the form of PCMCIA and other such technologies.

And lets not forget the people who try and combine the functionality of the phone and PDA into one clever device!

I like the phone ad-on idea though (CF/PCMCIA)!

Re:PDAs are dead

[Audent]

But I'd really like my phone to be small. Ideally, small enough to sit behind my ear and not worry about.

Maybe what I really need is a PDA with cellular capability and a bluetooth headset... the PDA can sit in my pocket/backpack and only come out when I need it and my headset can ring (and be voice activated to call out from) when I need that...

hmmm...

Re:PDAs are dead

[Anonymous Coward]

That is not a PDA... that is called a pencil.

Papper not included though...

Re:PDAs are dead

[Baki]

I believe in modularity. There will always be a market (at least a niche market) of people that do not want a monolithic thing that does it all, but is mediocre at each function.

The ideal solution is available today (I have it): a bluetooth PDA, a cell phone with bluetooth and GPRS (or whatever internet access protocol) and a bluetooth headset.

You leave the phone mostly somehwere in your suitcase or backpack, can use the phone for talking can calling via voice dialling through the bluetooth headset, and can use the PDA for meaningful internet access (the phone's screens are simply too small), for the classic PDA functions or for reading e-books (which also need a better screen than cell phones can give you).

I think maybe in 10 years, when both cell phones and PDA's are so mature that you don't need to replace them every 2-3 years (throwing away the other function as well if its all in one device) it may be the time to put it all into one device and still have the best for each functionality. But that is not the case yet.

Whether at that time the PDA's have added a phone or the phones have added a PDA is quite irrelevant.

Re:PDAs are dead

[RevAaron]

Yes, you're wrong on this.

You see, different folks want different things. There is not one single phone/pda/camera thing that is anywhere near what I want or need. Maybe someday, but not for a number of years. I want my PDA to be my computer. That is to say, I want a computer that fits in my pocket. No phone could do that. A PDA with a phone card could, though.

A lot of folks don't give a damn about most PDA functionality and are perfectly content with a tiny phone with a three line screen with an address book in it so they don't have to remember phone numbers.

Re:PDAs are dead

[RevAaron]

Likewise what I need is a tiny little box that can sit in my bag or pocket providing cellular internet access to my PDA via bluetooth. I don't want a big, expensive phone. I don't want to talk to people on it. I don't want a screen. Nor do I want a keypad. Hell, I'd prefer it if they left off the speaker and mic. I just want a little box, perhaps a cube around 3 cm on a side with a power button and an A/C port to charge it that allows my PDA to get internet access via the cellular network without having to buy a new PDA if I want to switch providers, etc etc.

The cell phone system is really fucked up, at least in the US, and likely will be (thank you, capitialism!) for at least a handful of years more. I will not be forced to choose PDAs based on which PDA-phone that my provider happens to support, and then get fucked for dumping a contract when I want to switch to a provider with a better PDA/phone. Nor will I buy an expensive bluetooth phone that is 2/3rds the size of my PDA with tons of useless features just so I can use it as a GRPS-bluetooth bridge.

Re:PDAs are dead

[GoofyBoy]

I need a spreadsheet, Transcriber, an MP3 player with SD or other removeable memory.

And I don't own or have a need for a cell phone.

But I agree that a good multi-function cell phone does cut down on the number of potential PDA buyers.

Re:PDAs are dead

[Hognoxious]

But I agree that a good multi-function cell phone does cut down on the number of potential PDA buyers.

It would if it existed.
If it's big enough to be a useful PDA, it's bigger than a phone needs to be.

It would seem that Qtopia is becoming the standard

[donscarletti]

It would seem that OpenPDA is a Metrowerks derivitive of Qtopia. Every time I see a pda that runs Qtopia I worry about the future of Linux pdas.

Qtopia is a finely engeneered environment, and I have nothing but praise for what I see in screenshots and technical documents about it. However I see the same problems with Qtopia being accepted as the de-facto standard for linux PDAs and I have with those who would make QT the de-facto standard in desktop linux GUIs.

Qtopia like its parent QT is written in C++, a farily controversial language amongst linux developers, it also uses Meta Objects which are an even more controversial addition to the language. This threatens to isolate many developers who would not use such a tool because of personal preference, with no fallback into an ISO standard complient c++ environment or a c environment.

Qtopia is also licenced under the same licence scheme as QT, dual licenced under the GPL and QPL. This sceme allows development of open source applications using the GPL and proprietary applications using the QPL after per-developer fees have been payed. This is however sub-optimal in comparison to a simple LGPL or BSD licences in which similar libarys of this type have been licenced for numerous reasons. First and least importantly it seems silly that to develop a graphical progam under Palm OS is free, yet for a linux PDA (the so called free OS) eqivalent one must pay a licence fee. Secondly, the QPL also misses out on multiple consumer protection clauses regarding binary distributed software noted in the LGPL. Thirdly in order to port the application to another platform, an activity in-keeping with the Free Software spirit, licence fees must be payed even for an open application. I am sure Trolltech would be happy to arrange an exemption for a bona fide OSS project, however this type of special arrangement is not in keeping with the principles of Free Software.

This post is not intended to insite a flamewar, I have made no value judgments about the actual performance or technical elements of either Qtopia or QT, I havn't commented on the legitimacy of KDE, which I belive is a fine project, probably exceding gnome in power and usability. However I urge people to consider these aspects when they choose which projects to support. Remember, in the future it will be possible to unify the desktop by making QT dependant on GNUStep, GTK+ or whatever comes out in front in a similar way to what Trolltech has done with MacOS and Windows interfaces, but the reverse is impossible due to both licence and structual incompatibilites.

...With linux!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes I wonder if all a device needs to do is be running linux to make slashdot.

"Now introducing, the CRAP-O-MATIC 90000 waste repository system (toilet) featuring embedded Linux 'flush and forget' technology!"

Re:...With linux!

[Anonymous Coward]

OMFG! That's what I have been looking for! Now I can build one into my house and make teh sweet love to my beautiful wife when I come home from work.

If I had a house.

And a wife.

And work.

Re:...With linux!

[Anonymous Coward]

And life.

To reply to my own post

[Anonymous Coward]

I make the point about them being the same because in the past Sharp has always been very consistent about delivering new innovative top notch hardware. Usually a new model every 6 months.

I am really surprised to see them release the same hardware specs and try to peddle it as some great new model. It should have been called the C770 or something.

So here I am with my c700, just waiting for one more PDA generation from Sharp hoping it would solve most of my woes, and they release this?

/rant

Re:It would seem that Qtopia is becoming the stand

[Anonymous Coward]

Your beloved LGPL is not about free software. It is really about proprietary software. Think about that before you hoohaa LPGL.

You are saying that Trolltech's GPL isn't as good as other GPL'd software simply because they choose to license it under dual icenses, so OEMS can confidently sell their software, and generate income for developers.

If you chose substandard tools simply because you don't agree with feeding software developers, you are a sad case.

KDE is a better desktop, _because_ Trolltech is a commercial business, and throws money at the development of the toolkit. And let's not forget, Gnome would not even exist, if it weren't for Trolltech and the superflous hoohaa about it's licensing in the early days.

No one is forcing you to pay for the free GPL'd sdk. It's frickin' FREE! You only have to pay a marginal sum for commercial application development. If you are going to make money using Trolltech's product, why shouldn't Trolltech make a few bucks as well?

and your statements on the choice of language are about the same as quibbling over using a 4 pound hammer or a 6 pound hammer. It really doesn't matter, except for nit pickers like you.

Guess What !

[polyp2000]

Still no bluetooth or wifi built in..

no further comment required

Whoope flippin doo!

[Anonymous Coward]

More Linux, more funkadelic buggy freeware mush.

Cellphone (mobile) are too expensive.

[jotaeleemeese]

Why should I have a mobile that costs 100-150 US$ (I am in the UK) for which I have to pay double or triple the cost of the line rental when compared to a landline?

I don't need to be contactable all the time, my ansewring machine at home can take care of that, and for contacting people I use an old mobile with Pay as you Go capabilities, or I call form my office or home phone, places where I spend at least 18 hours a day?

There are far too many people out there rushing to buy this stuff for no good reason whatsoever.

At the same time a PDA has been quite convenient and I would not like to be without one.

I don't think there is any good reason to link both devices in all conditions, for pople like me it is far more convenient to have differentiated devices, for others it may be the opossite, I believe there is space for both situations and market big enough to allow for them.

Re:Cellphone (mobile) are too expensive.

[digitalunity]

I have it the exact opposite. I cannot be contacted at work if not for my cell phone. I also don't spend a whole lot of time at home. I work about 84 hours a week right now but when I'm not working, I only spend half the off time at home it's nice to have my phone with me. I also have two roommates and none of us spend much time at the house. We all have cell phones. We don't even have a land line because we spend so little time there that the $40/month can now go towards other things. PDA's are quite convenient but for my own personal needs, a new PDA isn't required. I have an Palm m105 and it suits me just fine. It keeps track of all my contacts and lets me take memos. I also use the scheduling reminders all the time. Most of the newer PDA's have a lot of features I don't need, at the expense of battery life. My palm takes 2 alkaline batteries and lasts weeks(unless I use the backlight a lot).

Re:Cellphone (mobile) are too expensive.

[benzapp]

I work about 84 hours a week right now but when I'm not working,

thats exactly half a week. You work 12 hours a day every day?

My god, slaves were treated better than that.

Re:Cellphone (mobile) are too expensive.

[Hognoxious]

thats exactly half a week. You work 12 hours a day every day?

It is possible, I've done it myself on occasion - but never for more than two weeks consecutively.
I was a lot younger then.

Re:Cellphone (mobile) are too expensive.

[digitalunity]

I'm sorry. My math wasn't quite correct.

I work 12.25 hours every shift I work, on an alternating A/B 14-day schedule. In theory, this means I would only have to work 7 days out of any 14 day period. We're short people right now, so I'm working both A and B shifts. That comes out to: 85.75 hours a week. It's a symbiotic relationship. I'm broke, and they're shorthanded. I typically take anywhere from 2 to 5 days off a month.

My average bi-weekly paycheck:
80 Regular time
+80 1.5x Overtime
+10 2x Overtime
-----
Roughly 170 hours.

Re:It would seem that Qtopia is becoming the stand

[JabberWokky]

Qtopia like its parent QT is written in C++, a farily controversial language amongst linux developers, it also uses Meta Objects which are an even more controversial addition to the language. This threatens to isolate many developers who would not use such a tool because of personal preference, with no fallback into an ISO standard complient c++ environment or a c environment.

Signals and Slots are the metaphor of Qt, yes. And it's true that in order to use the GUI, you have to use the GUI library. It's also true that Qt is written in C++, but Qt apps do not have to be. KDE is an example - every KDE app is a Qt application, but they can be written in C++, C, Python, Perl and other languages. PyQt is quite a nice package. If you think you have to use C++ to program a Qt app, you're sorely mistaken.

Qtopia is also licenced under the same licence scheme as QT, dual licenced under the GPL and QPL. This sceme allows development of open source applications using the GPL and proprietary applications using the QPL after per-developer fees have been payed.

The QPL is a Open Source Inititive certified license. It gives you different rights than the GPL, but it is a very open and friendly license that meets all the OSI criteria. In addition, it's applicable to the full, freely downloadable Qt source. I.e., the QPL is another open source license you can use at no cost to write and distribute your software under, if you happen not to like the GPL.

You're thinking of the commercial license, which allows you to release your software under any license you care to make up. Binary only, EULAs, guarentees and warrantees (which are not allowed under the LGPL), patented algorithms (again, the LGPL does not allow these), etc. If you choose to abandon Open Source, be prepared to pay.

Thirdly in order to port the application to another platform, an activity in-keeping with the Free Software spirit, licence fees must be payed even for an open application.

Wrong. Qt is GPLed. It runs under Windows, OSX and other OSes. Qt for Windows is a different product entirely that has support for DirectX and other Windows specific features. Qt itself, however, runs just dandy on any modern OS, and the community has ported it to experimental and very niche OSes.

It should also be noted, since you're hitting on many of the famous Qt myths that if Trolltech were to go out of business or get bought out, not only will the GPLed code stay with the community, there is the KDE Free Qt Foundation, which mandates that in the event of a buy-out, merger, bankrupty or even lack of prompt releases, the latest codebase immedately reverts to the BSD licence.

--
Evan

Re:It would seem that Qtopia is becoming the stand

[BOFHelsinki]

Word! (Mod parent up!)

Clie-UX will crush this!

[NuShrike]

Even though the Sony Clie UX is in many ways and times more primitive compared to this Zaurus (real compact flash support, large color screen, long battery life, industry standards support), the Clie UX, or some derivative of it every 2 months from Sony will end up be ubiquitious, IMO :)

Much like VHS vs Beta.

Re:Clie-UX will crush this!

[FromWithin]

Is that a joke? Beta was made by Sony!

Re:Clie-UX will crush this!

[RevAaron]

Before I'd buy one, the UX50 would have to have at least PalmOS 6 or something less sucky than POS 5.2.x and under. And it'd have to have a bigger screen, something not a little bigger than a postage stamp. I don't need a super high res (although my current PDA has a 800x480 res), but I do need a physically larger screen. And the keyboard would have to suck far less. No the Zaurus C7x0's kb is far from perfect, but the UX50's sucks ass royally.

Re:Clie-UX will crush this!

[Yeechang Lee]

A couple of months ago I was agonizing over whether to buy a C760 from Japan or a UX50. I went with the latter and have been very happy with my choice so far.

UX-50 advantages:

• Magnesium case so tough I really can keep it in the same pocket as my keys.
  
• Tiny size that's smaller than my three previous Palm OS PDAs. In fact, other than in thickness it's about the same size as the Sharp YO-110 addressbook I carried in the early '90s.
  
• Terrific PIM software that lets me use the same addressbook, datebook, todo, and memo databases that I've been using since my first Palm OS device six and one-half years ago.
  
• Built-in Wi-Fi. With the C760 any add-on Wi-Fi CompactFlash card's antenna stub sticks out from the case. It's awesome finding open hotspots in the most unexpected places, like at church and at a coworker's house.
  

No, Palm OS 5.2 is not a preemptive multitasking OS. Yes, I'd kill for a true command line. 16MB RAM is a little skimpy in this day and age, never mind for a $700 (now $500) PDA, the screen really is a little small, and the lack of a portrait mode is very, very annoying. And maybe I'll even get all these features in a PDA one, but for now the UX50 more than fits the bill.

Some important things missing

[ciryon]

Where's

Bluetooth ?
802.11x ?
Mac and Linux sync ?

IrDa, bah...

Ciryon

Re:Some important things missing

[Tet]

Bluetooth ?
802.11x ?
Mac and Linux sync ?

No one cares about 802.11x. For a PDA, it's just a non-issue. But the lack of Bluetooth is a real problem. Sharp have come so close to creating the perfect PDA. If it had Bluetooth, I'd be buying one tomorrow, and importing it from Japan. But it doesn't, which leaves a CF bluetooth card as the only sensible alternative, and that's far from ideal (the CF slot is better used to add extra storage).

Re:Some important things missing

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree, 802.11x and not Bluetooth is what I see demand for in Calgary, Canada.

Re:Some important things missing

[RevAaron]

No one cares about 802.11x for a PDA? Heh. Maybe you live in a magical land where you can't by wifi hubs to install in your house and other people don't have them for free or subscribed use. (they sure as hell have them in london)

I'd be pissed if I didn't have 802.11b for my PDA. There is no way I'm going to put a little bluetooth transciever in every room of my apartment to get slow internet access. PDAs these days - even the $99 Palm Zire- are pretty powerful computers, their users being folks who enjoy fast net connections.

That isn't to say bluetooth wouldn't be nice too, it would. But they're different things for different purposes. Ideally, the PDA should have then both built-in with a chip controlling both so that they don't interfere with each other, like Sony did with the UX50, toggling which signal fast and transparently.

CF is what most folks would use for a wifi or bluetooth card, using SD for storage. But, you can also use the Zaurus serial ("Sharp I/O") port for adding bluetooth, although it is unsightly and clumsy.

Games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice, most of the software is from Gakken. The famous Toy manufacturer with the first PACMAN clone for home use:
http://retroinformatica.net/juegos-electroni cos/pu ck-monster

I wonder if there are also some games included.

Not more powerful...

[FromWithin]

I found out about this the other and leapt over to the babelfish. It appears to be identical to the SL-C760 but with some extra software loaded onto the ROM. Namely, a JapaneseEnglish dictionary and built-in support to connect to some of Japan's Wireless ISPs.

So not more powerful at all.

OSI-compliance doesn't mean "good for open source"

[penguin7of9]

The QPL is a Open Source Inititive certified license. It gives you different rights than the GPL, but it is a very open and friendly license that meets all the OSI criteria. In addition, it's applicable to the full, freely downloadable Qt source. I.e., the QPL is another open source license you can use at no cost to write and distribute your software under, if you happen not to like the GPL.

Yes, Qtopia is licensed under OSI-compliant licenses. But the important question is whether those licenses achieve the goals of free software or open source software. Just because a license is OSI-compliant or just because a piece of software is licensed under the GPL doesn't mean it helps free software or open source software. In fact, it may even hurt it.

That's why even FSF software isn't always licensed under the GPL. Instead, the FSF created the LGPL and the GPL-with-exceptions. Those licenses are specifically used for important system libraries that have commercial and free alternatives already available and for which it is desirable that they are used by all applications, commercial or non-commercial. And both conditions are satisfied for GUI toolkits.

Qt/Embedded and Qtopia are basically a grab by a small company to own the commercial handheld space. The company has used open source as a vehicle to achieve a big marketshare and get lots of contributions with a product that would otherwise have not been competitive. And it's no accident that those libraries take over the screen and exclude other toolkits: Troll Tech could have built Qt/Embedded around X11 with probably a smaller memory footprint, but that wouldn't have achieved their commercial aims: control of the Linux handheld space.

The GPL/OSI-compliance of Troll Tech's products is a fig leaf, and the goals of the company are arguably contrary to the goals of both the free software and open source movements.

you know..

[Lord Bitman]

I bought the first Zaurus I heard about, the SL-5600 I think.. then I starded hearing about the next and greatest Zaurus yet, so I sold mine in anticipation, knowing that what I had would be near-worthless once this new model came out..
Since then, I have not once been at a point where I have seen a new Zaurus released Without the next and greatest version already having been announced-
Way to go, guys. Your marketing is done by idiots. Could you maybe wait a full month between the release of your current product and the announcement of your next version?

Why are all the new ones only Japan?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it that the american purchaser is not smart enough to handle them?

My Zaurus is the BEST pda I have ever owned.

What, no Microsoft Tax (tm)???

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an outrage! True Linux doofs only purchase machines with a Microsoft OS built in, so that they can help finance the Global Conspiracy (tm) against Linux! More crap like this and how will Microsoft be able to afford to deny you drivers??!!

One more point....

[WARM3CH]

This new PDA is 8.8oz! Compare it with HP's H2210 (that happens to come WITH bluetooth) that is only 5.1oz or H4150 (with bluetooth AND 802.11b) which is 4.7oz or H4350 (with bluetooth AND 802.11b AND keyboard) which is 5.8oz...

Re:It would seem that Qtopia is becoming the stand

[RevAaron]

Qtopia isn't really a "finely engeneered environment." It is passable, yes, but really falls short in a number of areas specific to PDAs and in general, any stylus-based system. It's a shame- it is my philosophy that if you're going to create a system from mostly-scrtach like Trolltech did with Qtopia, you should do it right so that when entrenchment happens everyone isn't stuck with the same substandard design. And it does happen, even with very few users entrenchment is inevitable.

They have a lot more to fix than the license.

Re:OSI-compliance doesn't mean "good for open sour

[hansreiser]

Qt/Embedded and Qtopia are basically a grab by a small company to own the commercial handheld space.

And what in the world is wrong with that? They are giving for free to those who give back, and charging those who charge. Almost any software that is sufficiently successful is going to become a de facto standard and thus a necessity to those who want to enter the market. By charging those who charge they can maybe hope to barely make payroll if they produce best in the world quality work. You begrudge them this. What an ass!

Do you have any concept of how poor almost everyone in this dual-licensing business is compared to what their single proprietary licensing peers are making?

People who can work 40-60 hours a week on software do not three times, but five to seven times more work of a better quality, than those who do 15-20 hours of work a week. Many serious and deep projects simply cannot be done by part-time amateurs. Stallman's approach (seriously) is to not have children so money isn't needed. There is a flaw with that approach, think about it....;-)

Trolltech killed the Linux PDA

[Anonymous Coward]

And what in the world is wrong with that? They are giving for free to those who give back, and charging those who charge. Almost any software that is sufficiently successful is going to become a de facto standard and thus a necessity to those who want to enter the market. By charging those who charge they can maybe hope to barely make payroll if they produce best in the world quality work. You begrudge them this. What an ass!

Dude, you may be Hans Reiser but you aren't that smart when it comes to business. You just don't get it do you? Penguin7of9 is not an ASS. He has a very valid point about Qtopia.

What is wrong with Trolltech's Linux PDA land grab approach is two fold:

• X11 was abandoned not for technical reasons but for "lock-in." This monopolist strategy is not in the spirit of Free Software. Also note that the underpowered Agenda PDA ran X11 just fine. There is no good reason why a Linux PDA shouldn't be running X11. Actually a Linux PDA that doesn't run X11 is crippled.
  
  
• Trolltech has the right to charge money and proprietary vendors have the money to pay. But that is NOT the point! By charging for a GUI widget license an obstacle has now been placed in the road to success. Palm OS, MS Windows, Apple Aqua are GUI libraries that are free to use. This is what the market expects. Deviation from this norm will simply be ignored. Sharp should of bought (payed out) for a license free version of Qt for the Zaraus and this problem would of gone away but that is an argument for another day.

These two points added together equal failure and that is exactly what the Linux PDA market is doing. Failing. As a Linux Desktop user and a general Linux fan this situation pisses me off to no end.

Re:Trolltech killed the Linux PDA

[Anonymous Coward]

> Palm OS, MS Windows, Apple Aqua are GUI
> libraries that are free to use.

And note how little Free software is on these platforms. By giving freedom only to those who give freedom back (ie. following the spirit of the GPL), while allowing those who want to charge a way to do so, dual licensing gives the best of both worlds.

The only people who complain - and we all hear your whining regularly on /. - are the leeches WHO WANT TO CHARGE BUT NOT GIVE ANYTHING BACK.

Either produce Free software for the community, or support the community with some of the $$$ you make off their backs.

Dual-licensing RULES - just look at what crap CVS is compared to P4 and BitKeeper.

Re:Trolltech killed the Linux PDA

[Anonymous Coward]

The only people who complain - and we all hear your whining regularly on /. - are the leeches WHO WANT TO CHARGE BUT NOT GIVE ANYTHING BACK.

All I want to be able to do is develop open source software in something other than Qt for my handheld and desktop. But Troll Tech's business model is based around making that hard or impossible.

The problem with Troll Tech is not primarily the license for Qt, it's the fact that their business model and the resulting technical decisions they make harm other open source software.

Cool!

[jav1231]

Another PDA we'll never see in the States...or Europe...or ever!? Oh, and it's probably $499-$599...good thing they chose Linux or who knows HOW much it would cost!
JAV

Don't buy ipaqs -- support Linux

[jwr]

I'd suggest that people buy the Zaurus handhelds instead of iPaqs if they want to support Linux. I still don't get it why people buy iPaqs and then whine about WindowsCE on it and painfully install OPIE.

Why not just go with the company that has chosen Linux, support them, make their sales numbers increase? Buy Linux directly!

Re:Don't buy ipaqs -- support Linux

[Kent Recal]

Gimme the money, I'll buy the zaurus and make linux strong!

But Can it Sync?

[PetoskeyGuy]

I've been interested in these Palm/CE alternatives, but how well do they sync with standard PIM's? Do the Linux PDA's sync with Outlook, or Mozilla on Windows? Do I have to run Linux on the desktop?

I write software for Windows CE, and have several handhelds. Can anyone tell me about thier experinces with Zaurus?

Headset behind your ear yes, phone no

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd think twice about having the actual phone clamped /semi-/permanently to you head. Radiation from the antenna is not your friend.

Re:It would seem that Qtopia is becoming the stand

[Keith Russell]

Thirdly in order to port the application to another platform, an activity in-keeping with the Free Software spirit, licence fees must be payed even for an open application.

Wrong. Qt is GPLed. It runs under Windows, OSX and other OSes. Qt for Windows is a different product entirely that has support for DirectX and other Windows specific features. Qt itself, however, runs just dandy on any modern OS, and the community has ported it to experimental and very niche OSes.

To clarify: Qt for Windows is in no way Free or Open Source. There was a "Non-Commercial" version of Qt 2.3 for Windows, which was binary-only, unsupported, and required an exclusion clause to be added to any OSI-licensed software that used it. It's recently disappeared from TT's website, so I guess it's become abandonware.

According to TT's qt-announce mailing list, there's an official Qt book coming that will include a new 3.2 Non-Comm build, but it's only available with the book, and still isn't Free, Open, downloadable, supported, or available with source, making it abandonware even while it's on sale.

The closest you can find to a Free version for Windows is a port of the latest X11 version that's part of the KDE-Cygwin project. (You can look it up on SourceForge.) The Qt "port" itself requires Cygwin, and it's quite rough around the edges. Of course, it's not as good as TT's own version of Qt for Windows, but the Trolls feel they must punish those that put the project above The Platform as heretics.

Globalization?

[Kosi]

And where is the globalization when it would benefit the people and not the corps? Sharp Zaurus are not officially sold in Europe! :-(

Re:OSI-compliance doesn't mean "good for open sour

[penguin7of9]

By charging those who charge they can maybe hope to barely make payroll if they produce best in the world quality work. You begrudge them this.

No, I'm just saying that the combination of design and license they chose for Qt/Embedded is contrary to the goals of free and open source software.

You see, Qt/Embedded is not just some software product, it's something that excludes every other toolkit from the platform it runs on.

Note that this is a case-by-case issue. I have no problem with dual-licenses for ReiserFS, for example, because the implications are completely different. ReiserFS does not exclude other file systems or other software.

Do you have any concept of how poor almost everyone in this dual-licensing business is compared to what their single proprietary licensing peers are making?

Well, good, so let them make a proprietary product and become rich. I think that would be just swell, instead of pretending that they are somehow supportive of open source software.

But it's just a simple fact that Qt wouldn't have had a chance in hell if it hadn't been for the dual-licensing gimmick and Troll Tech's misleading presentation of the licenses.

What an ass!

While I think the ReiserFS dual licensing scheme is fine, your comments raise serious questions in my mind about your leadership of the project. With your lack of understanding of licensing issues and your attitude, I think there is a serious risk that you will end up killing the project and alienating more potential contributors. We'd been in touch previously about possible contributions to the project, but now I just don't think there is much point to it.