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First UK On-Train WiFi Service Launches Monday

Posted by timothy on from the train-travel-rules dept.

dave writes "UK train company GNER starts trials of the UK's first on-train wireless Internet access service. Currently only available on limited services and in First Class; if the trial is successful the service will be rolled out across the entire fleet in both Standard and First Class."

179 comments

  1. The real cost... by chill · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...was making the first class coaches into Faraday Cages so the dweebs in Stanard Class couldn't snag some airtime.

    I can also see some desparate geek trying to download his e-mail -- while zipping along at 100 kph in his car, parallel to the train.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:The real cost... by matthew.thompson · · Score: 3, Informative

      We use mph in the UK and our high speed trains - the type which GNER operate - run at 125mph. The road speed limit is 70mph btw so it's not that likely :o)

      --
      Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
    2. Re:The real cost... by Zemran · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you happen to know which stretches of GNER route run next to the motorway? It is one thing to do 125mph (with a radar detector, of course) but I would like to be on a straight road :) All this to save 1p in online costs :)

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    3. Re:The real cost... by Threni · · Score: 2, Funny

      >We use mph in the UK and our high speed trains - the type which GNER operate -
      >run at 125mph. The road speed limit is 70mph btw so it's not that likely :o)

      Yes, but in reality people travel at closer to 90mph on the motorways, and you'll be lucky if your train travels above 50mph for more than 2 or 3 miles at a time before encountering a broken track, sleeping/drunken driver missing a red light, a delay due to a failed train ahead or industrial action bringing the entire network to a standstill!

    4. Re:The real cost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Or you could not kill yourself and simply park up at a station - with the trains coming and going you may get a reasonable connection. Heck, if it was vital, wait for a train tp pull in, runn off, pull the emergency handle on the train, run back to your car and browse while they check it all out.

    5. Re:The real cost... by bonsaiburner · · Score: 4, Funny

      Fact is you could probably *walk* next to the train and get a decent connection... 5MPH seems to be about the average speed of a UK train these days, that's if a train turns up at all...

      Nice to see GNER have got their priorities straight - the state of our railway system leaves a lot to be desired and I'm sure the money could be better spent - and that's from a geek with as much wireless tech as anyone else :)

    6. Re:The real cost... by Jack+Hughes · · Score: 1

      The East Coast Mainline runs roughly along the same route as the A1 - which is a 70mph road for far bits of its length. But not that close in that many places. Not sure about north of Edinburgh...

    7. Re:The real cost... by pinny20 · · Score: 1

      To be fair, GNER are one of the better TOCs in the UK. The main problem is the infrastructure which is horribly old and mismanaged, first by Railtrack and now Network Rail.

    8. Re:The real cost... by tiger99 · · Score: 1
      Have you actually ever used a GNER train? I do from time to time, either Kings Cross-Edinburgh, which is an electric loco and MK4 coaches, or to Stirling, which is a HST. They invariably run somewhere very near to time, often arrive a little bit early, unless for reasons not of their making. Booked in advance, and avoiding peak times, the fares are very reasonable. The only time I have ever been sat on one that slowed to near walking speed, and then only for about 2 miles, was just after the mining subsidence at Prestonpans, the track in that area has now been diverted so that will not be necessary again.

      All in all, GNER provide a very good service, the staff conduct themselves profesionally, the food is good, the seats comfortable, as you might expect since they inherited British Rail's newest and best, and that route was good under BR.

      I don't know why people constantly have to knock the railways in the UK, except maybe to appease their own consciences as a result of using their gas-guzzling benzene burners when the train would have been 20 times safer and 30 times better for the environment.

      Personally I welcome this initiative, and look forward to it being extended to all their trains, and to second class.

    9. Re:The real cost... by tiger99 · · Score: 1
      What absolute rubbish. The GNER trains regularly run at 125mph, or at the speed limit for each section of line. OK, they do slow to 50 briefly for the Morpeth curve, and also throught Newcastle, but I use them quite a lot and the speed is really close to 125 for most of the route as far as the Scottish border, therafter mostly a maximum of 90 due to curvature, with some stretches of 100 or 110 if they are heading for Glasgow.

      IIRC the only place where a major road parallels the East Coast Main Line is near Penmaenshiel, and although it is by no means the fastest section of the route (90, I think) the traffic on the adjacent A1 dual carriageway is always left well behind.

      Such ill-informed comment about the true state of railways in the UK tends to come from those who are also Microsoft worshippers, in both cases because they are singularly ill-informed. Need I say more?

    10. Re:The real cost... by tiger99 · · Score: 1

      The very best, IMHO, as a satisfied customer. They may slide to second place when the West Coast Main Line is fixed, and Virgin's shiny new trains can achieve some of their potential, but they are way ahead of the only other major long-distance high-speed operator, First Great Western, who themselves are tolerable. The real rubbish is found in commuter territory, it is amazing what people will actually tolerate, such as the late, unlamented Connex.

    11. Re:The real cost... by tiger99 · · Score: 1
      One of my other posts said the A1 at Penmaenshiel, which is slightly north of the Scottish border. Thinking a bit more about it, it is likely that in part, when it is not in a deep cutting, the railway that is, the M9 Motorway between Edinburgh and Stirling is visible from the train, likewise the A9 dual carriageway north of Dunblane, for some way towards Perth, and the A9 (single carriageway IIRC, also single-track railway) north of Perth towards Inverness. There is little chance to see the A1 in England.

      I have never yet, in any of these places, seen substantial volumes of road traffic overtaking the train.

      If you want to race the road traffic, best take the West Coast Main Line, it parallels the M1 for a few miles around Watford Gap, and the M6 through the Lune Gorge (but it only gives one glimpse of the coast).

    12. Re:The real cost... by tiger99 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The last drunk TRAIN driver to kill passengers was ar Eltham Well Hall on 11th June 1972. They kill 1000 on the roads every year. A sleeping ROAD VEHICLE driver caused the Great Heck aka Selby crash. There are less than 2 broken rails on the entire network each day, the chances of one affecting a GNER train are not very great. If you actually take a GNER train from London to Edinburgh, it will, apart from station stops, normally drop below 60mph at two places, Newcastle and Morpeth, due to very tight curvature. Newcastle is a station stop anyway. It will cover most of the distance at 100 to 125mph. I know, I have done the journey many times. Have you?

    13. Re:The real cost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, obviously I won't be buying any DVDs until I've replaced all the floors in my house.

      It amuses me how people assume that the highest priority should take all the money up until its fixed, and nothing should be spent on lower priorities, regardless of relative cost. No-one actually lives like that, but they expect organizations to work that way.

  2. The problem I have with trains by Pingular · · Score: 3, Offtopic

    in the UK is not the lack of wifi, it's that I never arrive at my destination on time, as there's always delays for some reason. Don't try to run before you can walk, eh.

    --

    When anger rises, think of the consequences.
    Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
    1. Re:The problem I have with trains by Huw · · Score: 3, Informative

      To be fair, a relatively small number of day-to-day problems are caused by the train companies, the majority of difficulties stemming from network problems.

      --

      --
      Windows XP. From the people who brought you Edlin.
    2. Re:The problem I have with trains by ender81b · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've been riding the trains in the UK for the past 6 months ish and I don't understand what people's problem with them is. If they are delayed it is almost never more than 10 minutes and if it is greater than 10 minutes it's usually due to something weird like lightning hitting the tracks or some other thing. 9 times out of 10 your train is never delayed and you don't run into problems.

      To me, as an american, the trains are fan-fucking-tastic. American mass transportation systems can't come close to the ease and convience that the British get from the train system. Personally, I love it. Get on whatever train you want come back on whatever train you want at any time. It's great.

      Now, for me, I want wireless and I want it now ;). The 4 hour train ride to London would be much much much easier to deal with if I could have my precious intarweb with me.

    3. Re:The problem I have with trains by benna · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At least they TELL you it's something strange like lightning hitting the tracks. In reality the conductor probobly fell asleep while he was driving the train.

      --
      "It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
    4. Re:The problem I have with trains by Pingular · · Score: 1

      I've been riding the trains in the UK for the past 6 months ish and I don't understand what people's problem with them is.
      Wow. You must be incredibly lucky. I've been making a 200ish mile commute for the past 5 years or so once every 2 weeks, and every year it just gets worse. The predicted journey time used to be about 1 hour 30 minutes with no changes, and I never used to be more than 10 minutes late. Now the predicted journey time is 2 hours 30 minutes and I'm rarely less than 30 minutes late, the past 3 times I've had a delay over 2 hours. Have you tried trains in the rest of Europe? Pretty much every country's train service in Europe is better than England's.

      --

      When anger rises, think of the consequences.
      Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
    5. Re:The problem I have with trains by floydigus · · Score: 1

      Right. Try typing on the trains I use and you'll get an elbow in the ribcage.

      --

      All things in moderation; including moderation

    6. Re:The problem I have with trains by Pingular · · Score: 1

      --TOP TIP: Give your pet tortoise protective bull bars by slipping the wire off a champagne cork over his head.
      That isn't taken from The Vizs' top tips section by any chance?

      --

      When anger rises, think of the consequences.
      Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
    7. Re:The problem I have with trains by ender81b · · Score: 1

      Maybe i'm not lucky.. it's possible it's just because I mainly take trains in the north of england to scotland or down to manchester and rarely deal with the higher density routes around london and the rest. Still, all 3 times I have been to london the most I was delayed was 3 minutes and one time I got there 10 minutes *ahead* of schedule.

      No, I haven't tried trains in the rest of europe, just in GB.

    8. Re:The problem I have with trains by Inda · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is what bothers me about our trains:

      Potters Bar (2002)
      Hatfield (2000)
      Ladbroke Grove (1999)
      Selby (2001)

      There have been others...

      And they are talking about WiFi? Disgusting.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    9. Re:The problem I have with trains by Pingular · · Score: 1

      I mainly take trains in the north of england to scotland or down to manchester
      Same :)

      --

      When anger rises, think of the consequences.
      Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)
    10. Re:The problem I have with trains by mikeb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am genuinely mystified by the common practise of citing recnet rail crashes as, so far as I can tell, evidence of systemic failure in the railway system. The rail crashes and loss of life are naturally terrible events and wherever possible strenuous efforts should be made to eliminate the causes of them BUT BUT BUT - on average six people die every day on British roads.

      It's a bad YEAR when six die on the rails. Even if it has deteriorated somewhat in recent years (and should therefore be given urgent attention), it's in a different league from the risks associated with road travel.

      Yet you wait in vain to hear calls for public enquiries into the deadly state of the road transport system. Why is that? I'm not making a political point here, I'm genuinely amazed that these two situations exist: a dangerous transport system alongside one that is very much better with the latter attracting the 'we must make it safer' publicity.

      It just doesn't make sense to me.

    11. Re:The problem I have with trains by mattjb0010 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Correct my if I'm wrong, but weren't three of those caused by track problems, and isn't the train company independent of the track company? And the other crash was caused by a car on the tracks. So no, it's not disgusting for the train company to be looking at WiFi.

    12. Re:The problem I have with trains by Threni · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As an American, you might find the idea of trains great. They are. Go to Dernmark or Germany or Sweden and check them out.

      Then come back to England, and try and use them. I mean rely on them, for work, or an important appointment. You just can't do it. My train to/from work (on the line between Paddington and Slough) is late on an almost daily basis. They're filthy, extremely expensive, and very dangerous. There is no system to prevent trains crossing red signals - you have to hope the human driver is in a state to take notice of them. The price of my tickets have increased about 70% this year, thanks to the withdrawal of a discount card (Network South East card). You can still buy them, but they have far more restrictive terms, which make them effectively worthless. You'd not want to use a train late at night, especially if you're a girl, or you have expensive laptops etc, as hardly any trains have guards. You just have to hope that this time you'll be lucky and some drunken fuckwit doesn't take offence to you. Station staff are poorly trained, so you'll often be issued with a ticket which a subsequent ticket inspector will not agree with. The chances of getting stopped are low, so many people don't buy tickets, further degrading the service.

      On your final point - I have no trouble using WAP on most of my train journey, so the web should be available via that service.

    13. Re:The problem I have with trains by bundaegi · · Score: 1
      Tell me about luck...

      If you ever get the chance try Manchester Oxford Road station and get yourself a ticket to Liverpool Lime Street (once you're there, try and find Dr Duncans and order yourself a nice pint of Cains Dark Mild... mhhhh)

      Anyway, just listen to the announcements once you're in Oxford Road station: "we are sorry that the blahblahblah is running approximately 20 minutes late... We apologise for the delay and for the inconvenience this might cause you". The keyword of course being approximately. Just wait another couple of minutes and the announcement is updated... "running approximately 23 minutes late..."
      Chances are that the Liverpool train will be running anything between 10 minutes and 40 minutes late (which means one of the trains was cancelled and the next one is also running 10 minutes late). It _is_ a fsckin joke. Once I even was told (although that was a train from Victoria) that the driver went missing... result? another train cancelled.

      The alternative is to take a coach, and all things considered (leaving on time and arriving on time, ticket is cheaper) nearly makes up for the reduced comfort (that is compared to the ideal situation whereby you manage to seat your arse somewhere on the fsckin train). Only problem is that the last coach back to Manc leaves 1 hour earlier than the last train. You just can't win.

      --
      bundaegi is good for you
    14. Re:The problem I have with trains by palfreman · · Score: 1
      You might find that on certain lines if you don't travel at peak times. There have been some quite incredible things happeneing in the last few years, quite closely mirroring the events in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. The government seized control of the rail tracks themselves, now they've seized the maintainence companies, and there have been all kinds of cooked up failures, where one accident leads to an insane overreaction by the government's new rail "executive", the Stratigic Rail Authority. And all the while the service level drops, more trains are late, and you just get used to *never* relying on it. Almost every time I take a train there is something wrong - either the driver doesn't turn up (expecially a problem for the early morning serivces), or the train is so late it is cancelled and the next one replaces it. They seem to operate with no slack or redundacy at all, and to hell with people planning to use them for actual time based appointments.

      That being said, GNER are one of the best. Only beaten by Hull Trains who are superb.

    15. Re:The problem I have with trains by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      I've been riding the trains in the UK (or attempting to) for the past 26 years, or thereabouts.

      No matter what day it is, there is always some really weird excuse for why they can't run the trains on time.

      Of course it depends whereabouts in the UK you are. I hear the Isle of Wight line is pretty reliable, and Chiltern Railways are not bad.

      I have to suffer Virgin Trains, one of the worst in the world, Thames Trains, not much better, and the Great Misery Railway aka Great Western Trains.

      Others to avoid are WAGN - West Anglian Great Northern or We Are Going Nowhere, Connex, Thameslink, South West Trains and Arriva Trains.

    16. Re:The problem I have with trains by Zemran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a very good point. It is also worth adding that if you are on a motorway and are involved in an accident with other cars the risk of death is very low because all the energy is travelling in the same direction regardless of speed. On the other hand, if a lorry is involved the risk of death goes through the roof. That freight should be on the rails... We need to shift back to rail rather than abandon it.

      I have to stop before I get into a political rant about fuel tax etc. and lack of investment on rail...

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    17. Re:The problem I have with trains by aldoman · · Score: 1

      While I agree with you that some routes (like yours) are pretty appalling, the glasgow to london (euston) line is usually very good. I've been on it (not starting from Glasgow, however) about 10 times this year and it was well run - the only time it wasn't was the stupid speed restrictions, which sadly show you how piss poor the tracks are if they can't cope with a bit of heat.

      --
      IntechHosting - Free domain, 2GB, PHP, £4.95/$8.95
    18. Re:The problem I have with trains by Inda · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are correct. GNER did not cause the deaths at Hatfield.

      mikeb made some fair points about cars so I will too.

      Once upon a time, cars were death-machines. You crashed, you died. Laws were introduced forcing car manufactures to improve safety. We saw crumple zones, headrests, shatterproof glass, seatbelts, airbags, to name but a few. All these save lives.

      You've seen the pictures of the crashes. Travelling along at 100mph in a plastic Tupperware box with little to no brakes, no seatbelts, no airbags, no way out... It's insane.

      GNER are spending money on a WiFi system. I still say it is disgusting.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    19. Re:The problem I have with trains by fiiz · · Score: 1

      WiFi is certainly a welcome addition to the GNER--that is, when it comes to 2nd class AND when you can find a space to sit.

      You don't see a problem with UK trains because you're american. Try european trains: the extent of the networks, the cleanness of the carriages and the consistency of investment are usually much better than in the UK. I'm talking germany, switzerland, even france (think of the new 2-floor TGVs...very comfy, very smooth.) Here in france trains usually leave and arrive within the minute of their avertised time. It's not approximate, when it works.

      Having travelled extensively in europe and lived in britain for 8 years, I can definitely say british trains and the network suffer from 25 years of underinvestment. That said, I also think they are getting better, as showed by this WiFi thing.

      --

      yours ever, fz.
    20. Re:The problem I have with trains by mattjb0010 · · Score: 1

      You've seen the pictures of the crashes. Travelling along at 100mph in a plastic Tupperware box with little to no brakes, no seatbelts, no airbags, no way out... It's insane.

      Thinking about it from that angle, yes it is insane and disgusting.

    21. Re:The problem I have with trains by TomV · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Selby's a bit of a red herring here, but the inquiries into Ladbroke Grove, Hatfield and Potters Bar each concluded that systemic factors contributed to the accidents - poor maintenance of signals, poor maintence of points, poor maintenance and condition checking of rails, generally poor safety culture.

      BBC URIs for the reports:
      Hatfield
      Potters Bar
      Ladbroke Grove

      I worked for Railtrack a few years back on a condition survey project, and we found at least one set of points which the contractor had signed off for five years when it was clear from a cursory inspection that the heaters had burned out five years back. If it was found that lots of road deaths were due to unsafe cars passing their MOTs there *would* be a massive outcry against the dodgy garages issuing such certificates.

    22. Re:The problem I have with trains by seasunset · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have been using the trains in the UK and, after having lived in The Netherlands I can only say I am shocked. In fact, I would say that the worst thing in the UK are the trains.
      Arround here (Birmingham) ~40% of the trains have delays bigger than 5 minutes. In the weekend it can be hours, HOURS. During the summer the line from Birmingham to London was cut for maintainence for 3 DAYS IN A ROW. Buses were at least available as an alternative.
      And most of the trains are not confortable. Especially the local ones.
      And they are the most expensive trains in Europe.
      They are even much worse, on average, than the portuguese ones (I am portuguese).

      Wonderful country - I love being here, if you take out the so called public transport system.

      I am thinking in buying a car, I don't drive for 5 years, no need until now...

      Sorry for the rant.

    23. Re:The problem I have with trains by Telex4 · · Score: 2

      Oh for goodness' sakes, if you're worried about trains because of four train crashes in three years, why on earth don't you worry about the roads? Trains are one of the safest methods of travel, it's just that train crashes are occasional news, whilst no news station wants to be doing a daily update of car accidents.

    24. Re:The problem I have with trains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kewl, maybe you two lovebirds can get together for some train-spotting, cock-smoking faggotry.

    25. Re:The problem I have with trains by Telex4 · · Score: 1

      I've been riding the trains in the UK for the past 6 months ish and I don't understand what people's problem with them is.

      I'd second that. I've used them for about 5 years now, and I commuted regularly on them (12 journeys a week) for about 3 months, and I really don't have a big problem with them. Even when I've had a major problem (like a train from York being diverted and so missing the last train from Birmingham), they've put on coach services to take us there. Doesn't that smack of good service in bad conditions?

      Personally I think half the problem is in the British attitude. We want everything to be on time, snappy, and we want the trains to get there as quickly as possible. In my experience, in the rest of Europe trains will wait a little while in each station, giving trains time to catch up if they're a little late; in Britain the train arrives, passengers alight and depart, and whoosh, the train is straight off again, unless it's a big station. No wonder they're always a few minutes late!

      That, and of course the antiquitated railway system. If we shut the whole thing down for a few weeks and replacedd most of the track I've no doubt we'd stop having quite so many problems with leaves on the track etc ;)

    26. Re:The problem I have with trains by ralphclark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish to God somebody would mod that up. I agree 100%. Lorries are a fucking nuisance and a menace to all other road users. There are enough laws about how lorries should be driven (eg keeping to their own lane, keeping below 60mph) but lorry drivers *never* obey those laws.

      Also they tend to rely on their size to intimidate. In theory nobody is supposed to pull any sort of maneuver without looking first to make sure it won't force another road user to change speed or direction. But lorry drivers just don't give a damn. You'd better keep your wits about you when you're driving behind one of those things.

      Taking long distance freight off the roads and putting it back onto rail where it belongs would be a major vote winner I reckon.

    27. Re:The problem I have with trains by IlliterateFule · · Score: 1

      You obviously haven't tried to travel east from Manchester at peek times have you? Trains vanishing off the time-table with little or no explination [trains that don't arrive at all don't figure against the network's punctuallity targets!], so you have to wait another 30 mins for a train that is too small for rush time but now also has TWO trains worth of people crammed in... Try using your laptop in those conditions! [Admitedly this route is run by Arriva, not GNER] Funfunfun.

    28. Re:The problem I have with trains by IlliterateFule · · Score: 1

      Correct my if I'm wrong, but weren't three of those caused by track problems, and isn't the train company independent of the track company? Correct. It is this dispirsion or responsability that causes some of the major problems with our rail system, especially as every company involved is trying to take as littel responsability as it can in order to save time/money. If a train operator ignores track problems reported by drivers [in the case of Potter's Bar IIRC] because "that's not our counter" and the track maintenance company thinks it can keep cutting corners because no body has complained yet...

    29. Re:The problem I have with trains by IlliterateFule · · Score: 1
      Yet you wait in vain to hear calls for public enquiries into the deadly state of the road transport system.

      In fact there are many such calls on a local level - they just don't get into the national press unless something drastic happens. The national press would rather winge about speed cameras making it expensive to wave their dicks in public [sorry, I meant 'drive sports cars as it is there right to']...

    30. Re:The problem I have with trains by HeghmoH · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Comparing the UK's train system to the American system and saying that it's great by comparison is like saying that McDonald's food is great when compared to poo.

      The American system is total crap, but that doesn't mean the UK system is great. I've never used the UK system, but your description doesn't sound so good. In France, if a train is more than a couple of minutes late, they actually get on the PA and say "we're sorry for the delay, please don't hate us". Ten minutes late is nutty. I've only been more than ten minutes late on a French train twice. Once it was because there was an accident on the tracks, I think involving somebody shuffling off this mortal coil. Your (rough guess) figure of 9 out of 10 trains being on time means 10% are late, which seems really high.

      And then, of course, there's the TGV. Paris to Marseille in three hours. Whee.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
    31. Re:The problem I have with trains by dj_paulgibbs · · Score: 1

      No. I commute every week day and am lucky to get one of my ten trains on time. The average delay is 10 minutes, but those up to half an hour aren't uncommon.

      But i'm in South (Connex South Central, or whoever runs it now). Perhaps it is a different case for other (Northern) train operators/passengers.

    32. Re:The problem I have with trains by ender81b · · Score: 1

      Yeah the track is the big problem from what I understand. It looks like the government put off repairs on the tracks and then sold them leaving virgin and others with enormous track upgrades and repairs needed. Then you have the problem that your are shoving too many trains too quickly on the available tracks and the maint. cycle increases plus the tracks that most need ot be expanded/replaced are those routes that give the train companies the most money and you can see why british rail is having a problem.

      I still think they are fine though ;).

    33. Re:The problem I have with trains by ender81b · · Score: 1

      Yeah i've heard that manchester - liverpool lime street is one of the absolute worst routes available. And no, i've never tried to take it. I usually go north to scotland or south to manchester (from lancasteR) so I don't really have to deal with the high density routes. Although the 3 times I've gone to london i've never had a problem.

    34. Re:The problem I have with trains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, apologies for the anonymous login, but you are taking the fucking piss aren't you?

      Take my suburban London train. It is delayed if not cancelled AT LEAST 2 days out of five, with no or very little explanation. Not to mention the appaling safety record of my track providers. Potters Bar and Hatfield are both on my stretch of line, and we are crammed in like cattle. Not to mention the carriages are absolutely filthy. And the cost is very high.

      For you as an American they may be ok. Infact, our socio-economic structures are very similar so I imagine that parallels are evident, but for someone who has travelled extensively throughout Europe and the rest of the civilised and not so civilised world, our train services in the UK are a godforsaken disgusting embarrassment of an abomination.

      So on your 6-month trip here you got lucky on a couple of trains. Long-distance train journeys may well be the best of the bunch, but sorry, you just aren't qualified to comment.

    35. Re:The problem I have with trains by IlliterateFule · · Score: 1

      The route that has caused me most problems is Manchester->York [usually on a train destined to terminate at Sunderland]. The eastwest routes seem to be in worse condition in many ways than the east-coast and west-coast main lines.

    36. Re:The problem I have with trains by rokzy · · Score: 1

      isn't it more disgusting that car manufacturers put CD players, radios, TV's in cars when they haven't bothered to solve the problem of huge numbers of deaths yet?

      at least the WiFi allows people to work while travelling, CD players are just indulgent entertainment ffs.

    37. Re:The problem I have with trains by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Taking long distance freight off the roads and putting it back onto rail where it belongs would be a major vote winner I reckon." Not to the people who actually ship that freight and don't want to be at the mercy of the rail unions again. If even the Post Office have found that it's cheaper to ship letters by road than by rail, there's no hope of people choosing to send their frieght by train again. As for trucks on the road, the problem is not the trucks, the problem is that for decades now the government has refused to build proper roads that can handle modern traffic. Of the 40-ish billion pounds a year they collect from motoring taxes, only about 20% actually gets spent on the roads: it's no wonder they're crap too.

    38. Re:The problem I have with trains by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Funny

      "If they are delayed it is almost never more than 10 minutes and if it is greater than 10 minutes it's usually due to something weird like lightning hitting the tracks or some other thing."

      Which is fine if you have nothing better to do with your time. Some of us actually travel in order to get somewhere, and not to "enjoy" sitting on a train full of drunken football hooligans, beggars and people coughing and sneezing all over us.

      I live on a direct rail line in and out of London, yet if I want to go to London for the evening at a specific time I have to allow at least an hour for delays, cancellations and that idiot who's always at the front of the queue wanting a ticket from Aberystwyth to Edinburgh via Dover with a student's railcard on the special five day trip travelling with a ferret discount scheme and, while they're here, can they check train times from Bristol to Prague?

      Seriously, I've travelled on trains in about a dozen countries, and I've never had to put up with the same kind of crap that we get in the UK. The sooner the railways are actually, really privatised rather than being farmed out to government cronies to run, the better we'll all be: not because services will improve, but because the private owners will rip up the tracks and sell off the land.

      "Get on whatever train you want come back on whatever train you want at any time"

      Uh, I can only wonder where exactly you're living if you can "come back on whatever train you want at any time". My last train from London is about 11:30 in the evening. That's pathetic for a main line service from the largest city in the country.

    39. Re:The problem I have with trains by bex+l · · Score: 1

      I use british public transport regularly and longer journeys are almost always late. Quite often more than ten minutes. The shorter journeys arn't so bad but they don't really have much distance to become late. The most common excuses I hear are that there are leaves on the line, it's too hot and the rails might have expanded so the trains travel slower and things like the train had to wait for additional carriges to link up to it. Generally it's not too bad but trains are rarely on time. As for wireless on the trains, I think it's a good idea in theory (i'd like it anyway) but I'm not too sure how well it'll work in practice.

    40. Re:The problem I have with trains by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      "Personally I think half the problem is in the British attitude. We want everything to be on time, snappy, and we want the trains to get there as quickly as possible."

      Yes, God forbid that we should want the service that we've paid for, especially after the railway raised the fare into London from here by 50% last year. We should be grateful that we get the crap service that we do, and apologise when someone complains about having to stand for an hour on the platform in the wind and rain because the previous three trains have been cancelled and they can't even tell us whether there will _ever_ be a train running that night. And our friends should totally understand when we can't get into London to meet them for dinner because the trains have all been cancelled due to the weather being too hot.

      Etc, etc, etc.

      "If we shut the whole thing down"

      We'd all be a lot better off, and all that money wasted running trains could be spent on building proper roads instead. But that will never happen while the transport unions are a significant force in politics.

    41. Re:The problem I have with trains by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      "Trains are one of the safest methods of travel, it's just that train crashes are occasional news, whilst no news station wants to be doing a daily update of car accidents."

      The difference is that whether or not I get killed in a rail accident is purely a matter of luck, whereas I mostly control whether or not I get killed on the roads: sure, there's some measure of luck there, but by driving at a safe speed at a safe distance and looking ahead for potential problems you eliminate most of the risks. On a railway you'd better just get praying that the driver isn't drunk and the signals don't break down, because there's nothing more you can do about it as an individual.

    42. Re:The problem I have with trains by Von+Helmet · · Score: 1

      I've been riding the trains in the UK for the past 6 months ish and I don't understand what people's problem with them is. If they are delayed it is almost never more than 10 minutes and if it is greater than 10 minutes it's usually due to something weird like lightning hitting the tracks or some other thing. 9 times out of 10 your train is never delayed and you don't run into problems.

      Are you joking? The trains in Britain are appallingly bad! I mean desperately so. I'm routinely delayed for hours. Only delayed for 10 minutes? I think not. It's all well and good when your journey is on one train, but when you have to changetrains, then things turn into a nightmare, and that ten minutes is a long time when you only have seven minutes to change trains at the next station.

      To me, as an american, the trains are fan-fucking-tastic. American mass transportation systems can't come close to the ease and convience that the British get from the train system. Personally, I love it. Get on whatever train you want come back on whatever train you want at any time. It's great.

      Well, your trains must be atrocious if they're worse than ours! Man, I guess I can always be thankful I don't have to put up with your trains next time I'm stuck at Peterborough or Nuneaton or any other dull station. As for getting on any train you like and going back on any train you like at any time... it all depends on the tickets, and there's times when that really doesn't apply. Try getting on a GNER train up the East Coast main line when you're carrying a Virgin train that says you have to travel through Sheffield... See how far that gets you.

      Now, for me, I want wireless and I want it now ;). The 4 hour train ride to London would be much much much easier to deal with if I could have my precious intarweb with me.

      No, I really would rather they got the trains to run on time and at a sensible price. Have you seen the cost of tickets? It's extortion! I pay 40 to be 2 hours late. Marvellous. Screw wireless.

    43. Re:The problem I have with trains by jo_ham · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The train companies are not entirely to blame for those accidents.

      If you want someone to blame, pick the Conservative government of the time that sold off the railway network to the highest bidder at a massively undervalued price.

      So began the culture of profits before safety that dogged Railtrack. Enormous profits earned from buying the network at such a low price and then selling shares should have been sunk back into improving the railways. Of course, as expected, they gave it all away to shareholders and executives as dividends.

      They cut maintenance, farmed out lucrative service contracts that put the emphasis on "keep it working, dont bother improving" and not spending any money on safety systems that could have prevented the accidents you listed above (things like ATC and other systems) because they were "too expensive".

      Railtrack and the Tory government are the reason people have died in preventable crashes. I'm not saying the rail operators (Midland Mainline, GNER, Virgin etc) are blameless. but it's not all their fault by a long shot.

    44. Re:The problem I have with trains by TarpaKungs · · Score: 1
      If the conductor fell asleep while driving the train you have bigger problems, like "where the f**k is the driver?!!

      There is only one train I'm aware of that this is OK - The Docklands Light Railway, which is totally automatic, but can be driven by the actual conductor if needed.

      --
      Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
    45. Re:The problem I have with trains by bonsaiburner · · Score: 1

      Lets hope the drivers don't catch on - lets face it they have enough to worry about on our railways without doing IM on their PDA at the same time ;)

    46. Re:The problem I have with trains by ender81b · · Score: 1

      Yeah but who is going to pay for the increased track usage? As it is no track maint. is spiralling out of control, cost wise. Now you want to, say, double the traffic on the lines?

    47. Re:The problem I have with trains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Dude, did you see that scene in Reloaded where they fight on the truck and then the agent gets kicked off so he takes over the truck and the other agent takes over the other one and they head towards each other and it's like "boom!" and all the time they're crashing into any cars in the way and pushing them off the road and crushing them and then they crash and the whole thing slows down and everything explodes?!! It's awesome!!

      I want to drive a truck when I grow up.

    48. Re:The problem I have with trains by weave · · Score: 1
      So began the culture of profits before safety that dogged Railtrack.

      I find it interesting that others won't learn from the mistakes the UK have found from privitizing the rails there.

      There are many who are pushing to privitize Amtrak as the solution to the modest subsidies it requires.

      Oh, I get it, if it's American companies doing it, then it'd be better.

    49. Re:The problem I have with trains by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, I don't think anyone's pushing to have Amtrak privatised with a view to it remaining a going concern. There's a widespread belief that way too much taxpayer's money is being spent on keeping alive a form of transportation considered obsolete. With few in their right mind considering using rail travel for any distance greater than a couple of hundred miles, and a huge investment needed to make the infrastructure more usable so it could be usable over greater distances, this isn't that surprising. Right now what's keeping Amtrak alive are the calculations that say if it were to disappear tomorrow, the extraordinary amount of money that would have to be spent on increasing airport capacity would far exceed what's spent on the railroad.

      ...which is something I find a little sad. If I could travel from Florida to Boston in a reasonable length of time (<18 hours, as opposed to well over 24 as it is today) by train, I'd use it over flying in a heartbeat. But the infrastructure needs to be improved for that to be possible, and I don't think politicians see it as justified spending, especially if it ends up competing with a, third rate but private and therefore ideologically in need of protection from governmental competition, competitor (the airlines.)

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    50. Re:The problem I have with trains by weave · · Score: 1
      Try typing on the trains I use and you'll get an elbow in the ribcage.
      Good point. I took a ride on the Midland Mainline up to Kettering last month and couldn't believe how much that thing shook from side-to-side. Not near as nice running as the older diesel-electrics I rode in in past visits to the UK (ok, so you had to open the window to reach out to open the door at a station, but the trains themselves were much smoother running...)

      And 25 quid for an hour journey is a bit on the steep side too. Then again, an hour and a half ride on Amtrak to NYC costs me $57.00 -- but at least it doesn't shake you out of your seat!

    51. Re:The problem I have with trains by AlecC · · Score: 1

      GNER are spending money on a WiFi system. I still say it is disgusting.

      If it comes from the same pot, and if it isn't going to earn money back which will add to either profits or spending on safety, you might be right. But you could say the same about any other facilities for passenger comfort rather than safety. For example, a friend who frequently travels by rail alleges that the air conditioning is very often out of action and you boil or freeze. Are you saying this is right and that they shouldn't fix airconditioning but spend the money on safety instead.

      Generally this sort of thing is meant to be self-financing, and even pay some rent back to the running side of the railway. If that is not true, you might have a case. But I would like to see some evidence for that.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    52. Re:The problem I have with trains by AlecC · · Score: 1

      As you say "I mostly control..." - i.e. you don't entirely control. The residual accidents - people jumping the central reservation, somebody trying to enter the exit of a major road (saw that on Friday), idiots throwing bricks off bridges, total drunks - probably still represent a higher risk than train travel. There are, for example, a lot more controls to stop train drivers being drunk (they have to check in, sign the log etc.) than there are to stop car drivers being drunk (they have to find the keyhole with their key). Signals etc are probably checked a lot more than many cars on the roads, particularly the 5% or so driving without insurance or test certificate.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    53. Re:The problem I have with trains by Von+Helmet · · Score: 1

      Taking long distance freight off the roads and putting it back onto rail where it belongs would be a major vote winner I reckon.

      Yes, but it would require money, and the government just isn't willing to spend that. That's why the government in the UK is spending a fortune widening motorways when they could spend far less improving the rail service to the point that those people they are widening the motorways for might actually use the trains.

      Man, just don't get me started on the UK rail system! It's a disaster!

    54. Re:The problem I have with trains by weave · · Score: 1
      There's a widespread belief that way too much taxpayer's money is being spent on keeping alive a form of transportation considered obsolete.

      Hmm, let's see, either 1.5 hours traveling to NYC while relaxing in the cafe car with my laptop, or fighting traffic for 2-3 hours on the boring NJ Turnpike, dealing with midtown traffic, finding parking, and then trying not to fall asleep at the wheel on the return journey.

      Amtrak works -- and is profitable --in certain parts of the U.S. The problem is they have to keep the unprofitable running of many long distance routes due to congressional pressure. The same Congress that won't let Amtrak cut unprofitable long distance routes is the same Congress that whines about giving them a few hundred million a year in subsidy (all while saying that spending 87 billion in Iraq is no big deal, it's just a drop in the bucket).

      As for the leg of rail that Amtrak uses between DC and Florida, it's all owned by freight operators. Passenger trains get second priority on most parts of that line, the track can't handle high speeds, and even if it could, many of the communities that the lines run through insist on lower train speed limits because the locals are too stupid to wait for a rail crossing signal and figure they can run around the gates to beat the train.

      There's no way the density of population in that part of the country could provide the number of passengers to warrant large-scale upgrades of the rail lines there -- that is unless you forced more people to switch out of their cars through much higher gas taxes, which ain't going to happen.

    55. Re:The problem I have with trains by floydigus · · Score: 1

      (ok, so you had to open the window to reach out to open the door at a station, but the trains themselves were much smoother running...)

      I still have to lean out of the window to open the door. I kid you not.

      --

      All things in moderation; including moderation

    56. Re:The problem I have with trains by perly-king-69 · · Score: 1
      The difference is that whether or not I get killed in a rail accident is purely a matter of luck, whereas I mostly control whether or not I get killed on the roads: sure, there's some measure of luck there, but by driving at a safe speed at a safe distance and looking ahead for potential problems you eliminate most of the risks.

      Nice in theory, not in practice. Although you're driving safely about 50% of the rest of the drivers on the road aren't. All it takes is for that prat in the outside lane to spin out of control, hit a crash barrier and bounce into your lane and you're toast. No matter how safely you drive.

      --

      --
      This sig is inoffensive.

    57. Re:The problem I have with trains by sosegumu · · Score: 1

      American mass transportation systems can't come close to the ease and convience that the British get from the train system.

      Of course, the American mass transportation system can't even compare to second-class bus service in Mexico.

      Get on whatever train you want come back on whatever train you want at any time. It's great.

      I was in Oaxaca, the poorest area of Mexico, a few years back and was amazed easy it is to get around the city on buses. I live in a Midwestern city of equivalent size and you can't get anywhere on buses. And in Mexico , there is the added amusement of bus drivers passing one another on curves going down a mountain. You just can't buy that kind of entertainment.

      --
      It's easier to wear the spandex than to do the crunches. --David Lee Roth
    58. Re:The problem I have with trains by tiger99 · · Score: 1
      The train operator GNER was as much a victim as the unfortunate crew and passengers in both of these accidents in which their trains were involved. They were not at fault in any way. It they as a train operator can provide a facility to attract more people into their comparatively safe, environmentally friendly trains, instead of using filthy, dangerous road transport, they are at liberty to do so. Their probably quite small investment in WiFi comes from an entirely different pot of money to the track maintenance. Don't confuse the issues.

      And BTW there were NO OTHERS in that time period which involved passenger injuries, in an average year the railways kill one or two passengers, road 3500. It is 10 or 20 times safer to travel by rail than by road, even in a bad year. About 1 year in 3, no passengers are killed on the railways at all.

      Furthermore one of the two accidents involving GNER was clearly caused by an imbecile behind the wheel of a road vehicle! When did you last hear of a train invading the road, causing an accident? Maybe once in 5 years at a level crossing, and even then the road driver inevitably turns out to have been at fault.

    59. Re:The problem I have with trains by ralphclark · · Score: 1

      The cost isn't the only factor to be considered. In any case, if freight were forced to return to the railways, we could expect efficiencies of scale there which currently aren't available.

    60. Re:The problem I have with trains by ralphclark · · Score: 1

      The current UK government is a dead loss in everything it does. There's no point in hoping for any positive changes anywhere until they have gone away.

    61. Re:The problem I have with trains by ralphclark · · Score: 1

      The cost of track upgrades and maintenance would be covered by revenue from the new freight business going to the rail companies.

    62. Re:The problem I have with trains by norite · · Score: 1
      I don't use trains anymore. Especially not after VIRGIN TRAINS tried to rip me off 125 pounds (~$270) for a return journey from London to Wales. Heck, you can have a weeks holiday (Flight + accomodation) to Spain for that price.

      And if you do risk it, there's the usual conductor/driver strike faulty track etc. etc.

      There'as a train station near my house. But i get the bus instead. Or, I'll drive. It's about time people in the UK said enough is enough and started a mass boycott of all trains until they are brought back under a single company. Having 50 odd different rail companies is a total farce. Thank you, Conservative Tory Government. Fuck the train companies, They aren't getting any more of my money.

      --
      -- Fuck Beta
    63. Re:The problem I have with trains by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 1

      I used to commute every day by train. Probably about 99% of the time the train left Leeds on time. Once or twice it was cancelled and occasionally it had been held up on the way in to Leeds from other trains running late. It was reliable enough that I was only ever late due to my bus/train connection going wrong due to a late running bus. The rolling stock is new, comfortable and air-conditioned.

      A friend, who was staying here recently and spent a week communiting to a different town was again only held up due, only on the homeward journey and only due to connecting bus problems. The local station she used to start her journey from was rebuilt last year and now has a nice booking office and waiting rooms.

      People moan about the railways but it appears it's a southern phenomenon.

    64. Re:The problem I have with trains by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 1

      Have you tried trains in the rest of Europe? Pretty much every country's train service in Europe is better than England's.

      The only ones recently I used where from a village outside Potsdam (Potsdam University's out of town campus) and Berlin Zoo. In both directions the train was late. In one just a couple of minutes but the other was twenty minutes late.

    65. Re:The problem I have with trains by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 1

      but because the private owners will rip up the tracks and sell off the land.

      Short memories! The reason the railways are in such a sorry state really was the attempt by the Wilson Government to make them comercial in the 1960s. Over half the line was ripped up (2,500 miles!) and over two thirds of the stations closed. One of the biggest losses was the removal of the 'slow lines' which means there's no alternate tracks for slow moving goods or as back up lines. How many times has a train been delayed because of another train on the track. Pre Beeching that would have been easily solved by diverting them on to the second set of lines.

      Then you must remember that railways in the UK are nearly two hundred years old. The mis-management and lack of investment didn't start twenty five years ago, it started 75 years ago between the wars and it has gone down hill since then.

      I'm 37 years old and for years I only ever knew of local stations with bus shelters on. Many rural station buildings disappears in the period after the war because they were so delapadated it was cheeper to demolish them than repair then. It's only in the last five years that I've known of actual money spent on the railways. Leeds station's complete 80m refurbishment, Temple Mead's (a gorgeous Victorian Edifice started by Brunel) refurbishment, Cardiff's multi-million pound refurbishment, York's (another wonderful Victorian building) refurbishment. My local station had a couple of million built on it so it now has brand new stone built booking office and waiting rooms. The stock on my regular commute was upgrade to brand new electric stock with air-con and comffee seats. From what I remember as a child it's a vast improvement. The problem is that there's no spare capacity and upgrading basically diminishes the service until it improves and there's so much work that needs doing.

      The railways system can never be profitable. It should be financed as part of an integrated transport system to cut down on the amount of road traffic. I would happily spend an extra penny on tax if I knew it would go towards the railways.

    66. Re:The problem I have with trains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The current UK government is a dead loss in everything it does. There's no point in hoping for any positive changes anywhere until they have gone away.

      Should have voted for John Major!

    67. Re:The problem I have with trains by Telex4 · · Score: 1

      "If we shut the whole thing down"

      We'd all be a lot better off, and all that money wasted running trains could be spent on building proper roads instead. But that will never happen while the transport unions are a significant force in politics.

      Hmmm, you haven't thought this through, have you? To match the capacity of a fully operational rail network we'd have to expand roads so dramatically that we'd completely decimate huge areas of natural beauty, cultural and biological significance. We'd have to completely replan every urban centre, and probably knock to pieces half of them to get a road system that could cope with the new load.

      Not to mention the massive environmental damage you'd cause with all those extra cars on the road!

    68. Re:The problem I have with trains by Silburn_Luke · · Score: 1

      Nope (as the upthread poster complaining about the Oxford Rd-Lime St service demonstrates) its mostly a daily commuter service problem. Now London and the SE is the 800lb gorilla when it comes to local commuter trains, but there are similar services and similar problems in the big regional conurbations like Birmingham and Manchester. I'm not sure what it is about the Yorkshire commuter services that allows them to dodge those problems - maybe usage density and lower overall train movements.

      I have been doing a weekly commute between London and Cardiff on First Great Western for the last six months or so and the service, whilst nowhere near as smooth and glossy as the GNER train from Leeds I took a couple of weeks ago, is pretty decent. Trains run twice hourly and generally arrive within 10 minutes of their scheduled time outbound; inbound to London is less reliable, but even so being more than 20 minutes late is fairly unusual (maybe three times in the ~30 Friday afternoon trains I've taken).

      That sort of service level could certainly be improved, but its perfectly adequate for my type of commuting (once per week and where I don't have to be in at work on the dot of nine o'clock first day of the week) and its nowhere near as bad as some of the nightmares I've had doing daily commutes in and around London.

      Regards
      Luke

      --
      #include witty_one_liner.h
  3. Impressive by Huw · · Score: 1

    "when the train passes through a tunnel, 4-6 cellular phone links are used in parallel to maintain the Internet connection, and even if the speed decreases temporarily, the connection will entirely not drop."

    Just a shame that GNER don't actually operate this far West in the UK.

    Not having a laptop is probably going to be an issue as well, I suppose.

    --

    --
    Windows XP. From the people who brought you Edlin.
    1. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am amazed that they use cellular connections. 10 years ago British Rail (as was) were talking of
      actually having a significant telco business by
      laying fibre alongside the tracks (less disruptive
      than digging up the trains). It seems that post
      privatisation, with the balkanisation of the system, aspirations have been scaled back considerably.

      For the cost of rail travel from, say, London to Edinburgh you should get a complimentary 3G phone, let alone Wifi along the way.

    2. Re:Impressive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I somehow don't believe their claims the train won't loose signal entireley in a tunnel. Surley if you are in an area where coverage is already patchy (say only 2 of the 4 networks having any signal). The chances of maintaining signal through a long tunnel (not sure how many of these there are actually on GNER routes) is pretty slim and there's no chance of a satellite connection working.

      On a side note has anyone else noticed that you get far less signal on a virgin voyager than you do on an old intercity?

  4. what a stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    let's hope this service doesn't get too popular - for health reasons. WiFi is fine, but packing 200 passengers into a small train carriage and allowing each to use a WiFi transmitter is just stupid.

    seriously, how hard would it have been to stick an ethernet port in each seat? my guess is that they went with WiFi only because it was cheaper (less rework to the train)

    lame.

    1. Re:what a stupid idea by benna · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's wrong with going with wifi because its cheaper?

      --
      "It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
    2. Re:what a stupid idea by anubi · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "seriously, how hard would it have been to stick an ethernet port in each seat? my guess is that they went with WiFi only because it was cheaper (less rework to the train)"
      Well, it is a public train. The only way I see they could possibly do this is through the air... where there is nothing for anyone to damage. People can be very destructive.

      I will guarantee you if you put ethernet ports out, within hours they will be plugged with chewing gum. Its just the way people are. Most of us are pure pigs. Talk to any custodian of a public place if you don't believe me.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    3. Re:what a stupid idea by skinfitz · · Score: 2, Funny

      WiFi is fine, but packing 200 passengers into a small train carriage and allowing each to use a WiFi transmitter is just stupid.

      Not as stupid as packing 200 passengers into a small train carriage that has CAT5 cabling trailing everywhere!

    4. Re:what a stupid idea by gsdali · · Score: 1

      There are 64 seats in First class and 86 in Standard. There will have to be at least one access point per carriage. The amount of simultaneous access will be limited. My experience of the number of people with laptops and pda's, even on a busy morning train is probably about 20 at most. I don't see that as much of an issue. I'm sure their going to have to throttle people's bandwidth to stop anyone hogging the uplink. Sure Ethernet is better but wifi is more convenient. Anyway, less of the killjoy stuff, I use GNER all the time and GPRS coverage is patchy and expensive. So a good improvement.

    5. Re:what a stupid idea by NevermindPhreak · · Score: 1
      i thought of the same problem, but then i thought of a solution: instead of ethernet ports, why not have ethernet cords? most people dont keep their own cabling on them anyways, so this would be and advantage. and if someone cuts the cable where they sit, cat5 is dirt cheap if you get it from the right sources.

      i think the wireless route is a poor one to follow anyways. how many years will it be before theres more people wanting to use the internet access than wifi can handle? cat5, however, is still going to be around for a long while, espically since you can do gigabit ethernet over the cabling.

    6. Re:what a stupid idea by mOoZik · · Score: 1

      There is no conclusive evidence that WiFi is hazardous. Cellphones put out 10x more power, and even being so close to your head, they only raise the cell temperatures by .01 degress, which is nothing. Having forty people using WiFi (which is improbable) will not have adverse health effects.

      --
      A blog like any other.
    7. Re:what a stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      my pysics teacher said that it hasn't been proven yet that cell phones don't interfere with the 'subtle body' which is an energy field like acupuncture taps into, so we should be carefull about holding them too close to our head. he recommends an earpeace (like a walkman kind of attachment) or a low power bluetooth earpeace taht connects to the the base through low powered radio waves.

      just my two cents...

    8. Re:what a stupid idea by aldoman · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. CAT5 is cheap, but how much do you think it costs for Mr Cable Man to get on a train, be on time, just to repair one peice of cut cable? WiFi, while bad when flooded with lot's of laptops, is much much better for public places.

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      IntechHosting - Free domain, 2GB, PHP, £4.95/$8.95
    9. Re:what a stupid idea by mOoZik · · Score: 1

      Your physics teacher is an idiot for believing in anything other than what is observable and testable, which does not include "energy" fields that acupuncture taps into. Science doesn't believe in "energy fields" or "feng shui" even if others may.

      --
      A blog like any other.
    10. Re:what a stupid idea by NevermindPhreak · · Score: 1

      if they set it up right, then they wouldnt need a cable man to replace it. have a regular sided cable with a jack on each end. plug one end into a port on the train, and then seal that end off with a key. the other end hangs freely. whenever a cable gets cut, damn near any train employee can simply unlock, unplug, plug in a new cable, and lock again.

    11. Re:what a stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The energy field is testable. Acupuncture has been tested by wester scientists, and it works. It sounds to me like your just close-minded to non western sciences.

    12. Re:what a stupid idea by anubi · · Score: 1
      WiFi is just getting started. Remember when we had those blazing 300 baud modems that were more than twice as fast as those old 110 baud teletype links?

      I don't think considering the bandwidth available today is a valid projection for whats gonna happen 5 years from now. Not in this industry. I see no physical limitation here - its not like my bandwidth is dependent on some physical constant which I am powerless to change, rather its dependent on technology and protocols.

      I don't think we've even begun to touch the potential of wireless technologies. I am sure as the needs arise, we will devise techniques for obtaining as much bandwidth as we need. Within a local area, we physically have the entire EM spectrum at our disposal.

      As far as those cables go, anything accessible to the public is going to be a maintenance nightmare. And equally frustrating to the public who will be forced into a position to jockey for who gets the seat with the operable connection. For this, I do not wired connections are a good idea.

      Incidentally, are the trains wired to power said laptops?

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  5. VIA Already has this by yani · · Score: 5, Informative
    VIA (the national train service in Canada) already has this on thier first class cars, see here.

    I've seen one go by while I was at the train station on day waiting for the commuter train but it was going by a bit too quickly for me to try to grab a connection with my axim x3i :P

  6. Cool! by Sanity · · Score: 3, Interesting
    This will seal the deal for me, I will never fly from Edinburgh to London again. Already a train journey (5-6 hours door to door) isn't that much longer than a flight (almost 4 hours door to door) and its a hell of a lot more convenient.

    Its unfortunate that this is currently only available in one carriage, one would imagine that the expensive bit is the satellite uplink (assuming this is how they do it, although I saw GSM mentioned somewhere), distributing the wireless within the train should be the easy bit.

    1. Re:Cool! by fuckfuck101 · · Score: 0

      New tracks have meant the Edinburgh to London journey by train is more like 3-4 hours nowadays.

      --
      Comment: Yes I realise the username 'fuckfuck101' makes me sound intelligent, no you cannot buy it from me.
    2. Re:Cool! by barnaclebarnes · · Score: 1

      I always try and take the train when travelling for work in the UK. It is usally faster and cheaper than driving (40p per mile expensed to my company). This just makes it even more inviting. Hopefully bosses will start demanding sales reps and onroad staff take the train so they can actaully work during the travel time. With this and the new driving with mobile/PDA rules in place it makes sense.

      The only time it really makes sense to drive is when the customers site is to far from the station.

      --
      [Please type your sig here.]
  7. window dressing by xirtam_work · · Score: 2, Interesting
    this is all just windows dressing to cover up the fact that most journeys are either delayed or cancelled.

    on a standard rate ticket the train cars are massively over packed during commuter periods. thankfully the gner routes are not as popular as the ones in the south and south-east.

    that this has happened at all is a nice and due to competition from virgin trains who operate on the western main line up and down the country, who offer laptop and mobile charging, etc. on your journey for a business class ticket. they operate their trains more like they operate their airlines than the other rail operators. it is true that i'd like to see this service offered across the board for the entire train network eventually by the majority of operators.

    since privatisation (the railways used to be pubically owned) the responsibility for the track network and the train operators has been split leading to more massive accidents than ever before. imagine if the internet was run by idiot companies with no idea about how to run a network with all the isp's just putting more traffic over a poor backbone infrastructure that was already in place, with little or no investment in that infrastructure, with all the maintainence work contracted out to the cheapest sub-contractor.

    1. Re:window dressing by JamesTRexx · · Score: 1

      the railways used to be pubically owned
      And now they're owned by a bunch of dickheads. Don't see much difference here. *lmao*

      --
      home
    2. Re:window dressing by Fembot · · Score: 1

      The virgin trains I've been on (the Euston Liverpool lime street service, and also Liverpool Portsmouth harbour) have all had laptop charging points in the carriges I've been in, and I've most definatly only been in the cheapest parts of the train... They also had headphone jacks in the seats so you could listen to virgin radio (which by the way is by far the best comercial radio station i've ever heard)

    3. Re:window dressing by DanBrusca · · Score: 1

      Virgin Radio are also one of the few commercial broadcasters who stream in Ogg:

      http://www.virginradio.co.uk/thestation/listen/ind ex.html

    4. Re:window dressing by DanBrusca · · Score: 1

      The idea that there have been 'more massive accidents' since privatisation is a myth.

    5. Re:window dressing by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      That's quite easy. It's called BT Openwoe.

    6. Re:window dressing by inquisitor · · Score: 1

      Indeed: the worst recent British railway accident was Clapham Junction in 1989, some years before privatisation.

      Incredibly, some of the recommendations from Clapham Junction have still not been implemented because the railway companies have been stuffed by Railtrack; the removal of all slamdoor trains from the network, for example, or Automatic Train Protection.

      GNER are, however, the best railway company I've travelled with; for a start, the price of beverages on their trains actually went down after privatisation, which is somewhat unusual (ScotRail contracted theirs out to make a fast buck, so it costs 1.40 for a cup of machine coffee.) Very good company.

      They got an advantage during privatisation because they got the newest-electrified track and newest trains; they've used them well (unlike some of the London commuter services.) Virgin Trains are so hated by the general public because they got lumped with the least well-maintained railway line and the first-generation electric trains; no matter how good the company is, you'd hate them if they had such poor facilities.

      This, by the way, is why they're so annoyed with Network Rail's continued downgrading of the modernisation work on the west coast main line (done to allow them to put new trains on the network). They certainly deserve to be.

    7. Re:window dressing by palmersperry · · Score: 1
      the railways used to be pubically owned

      IYTM, the railways used to be state owned ie. the limp hand of the treasury was upon them preventing any large scale investment, leaving BR with little to do that was more than management of decline

      The treasury are, after all, why the folllowing occured :-
      (a) ATP (Automatic Train Protection) not installed because it was too expensive, even though Cyril Smith MP said it would be installed "no matter what the cost".
      (b) ECML (East Coast Main Line, ie: GNER's route) electrification done on the cheap - hence why it has problems in adverse weather conditions.
      (c) Insufficient HSTs bought back in the 1970s, which is still affecting provision of trains to this day ...

    8. Re:window dressing by byolinux · · Score: 1

      Virgin Radio are also nothing to do with Virgin anymore.

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      Join the Free Software Foundation
    9. Re:window dressing by byolinux · · Score: 1

      I've also just noticed something strange with that page. If you're running IE (or at least, in my case they thought I was) and Windows (again, it was a spoofed USER AGENT) they don't give you any options... just a 'Listen Now' button for Windows Meeja.

      --
      Join the Free Software Foundation
    10. Re:window dressing by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The idea that the railways were "privatised" in any real sense is a myth. They're just run by government cronies, rather than directly by the government, so the government no longer take the blame for their poor decisions even while they still get to set the policies.

    11. Re:window dressing by tiger99 · · Score: 1

      Most GNER journeys are not delayed or cancelled, and that goes for most other operators too. Your point about maintenance is true, that is being reorganised now, but most of what is said about the poor performance of railways in the UK is simply untrue.

    12. Re:window dressing by BovineSpirit · · Score: 1

      Troll. The railways were certainly flogged for a song by the Tories. Since then public subsidies have doubled (to nearly 2 billion pounds p/a), services have gotten worse and investment in maintenance and new stock effectivly stopped. In York hundreds of people lost their jobs when orders for new trains ceased. When the tracks became fatally dangerous more public money was used to patch them up.

      If the government were still pulling the strings they may have stopped investment, but they would not have let the subsidies increase. The nearest the government comes to directly controlling the railways is via the the railways watchdog, with whom they have had very public arguments.

    13. Re:window dressing by sporktoast · · Score: 1

      imagine if the internet was run by idiot companies with no idea about how to run a network with all the isp's just putting more traffic over a poor backbone infrastructure that was already in place, with little or no investment in that infrastructure, with all the maintainence work contracted out to the cheapest sub-contractor.
      What, is it 1995 again?!? Did AOL just buy ANS? Hey, maybe my stock options are worth something again!!
      --
      In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
  8. Re:and- by mattjb0010 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    if they could only make them run on time that would be even better...

    Speak of the devil.

  9. amtrak testing it by Wakkow · · Score: 3, Informative

    I recall reading about Amtrak working with yahoo to provide net access on the trains.. I don't know if it panned out, and google searches just come up with old articles. Anyone know what happened?

    Looking now, I see that the local train is testing wifi on certain routes.

    1. Re:amtrak testing it by Schaffner · · Score: 1

      For awhile Yahoo! was sponsoring this on the Amtrak California "Capitol" trains between San Jose and Sacramento. One car was outfitted for WiFi access. The trail was ended and the service is no longer available.

    2. Re:amtrak testing it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Amtrak deal got squashed as it was just a Server in the train, no real Internet access. My friend was on the GNER train last week and was quite impressed. O.k it was not a 3Mb fixed line but for a train travelling along he was apparently very happy. When I get a chance I check it out for myself.

  10. Thank you... by blowdart · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now maybe people will send "I'm on the train" emails, instead of forcing the whole carriage to listen to one half of your mobile phone conversation.

    1. Re:Thank you... by mattjb0010 · · Score: 1

      Thanks to iTunes/other streaming tech. you can now listen to other passenger's music collections instead.

    2. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead now you'll get punters downloading music/movies/porn whilst on the train and playing it away to the carriages delight...

      I guess it's time to expect the train fares to rise through the roof once again though; great, bye bye even more salary...

    3. Re:Thank you... by NevermindPhreak · · Score: 1

      you dont need an internet connection at that moment to play mp3s. :P i have a pretty big library i can play at any time stored on my computer. but i think the solution would be the train requiring anyone wanting to play music to use headphones. helps on battery time, too.

    4. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely they send IM N THE TRN texts already?

    5. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm - that sounds like being on the train would be an opportunity for P2P music transmission. So can we assume that the RIAA will be closing down GNER within 6 months with a $99 quadrillion law suit?

  11. WiFi on trains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    Laggards.

    http://www.linx.no/default.aspx?id=2096

  12. Try riding an American train sometime (nt) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (nt)

  13. Residents near the train tracks get free WiFi too! by IvyMike · · Score: 3, Funny

    30 seconds at a time, several times a day, that is. "The 14:55 from Aberdeen's coming, get ready to hit reload!"

  14. Amazing bandwidth multiplication. by tgrasl · · Score: 3, Interesting
    You will experience approximately the same kind of quality as with a DSL connection...

    I'd be interested to know how the expect to get DSL-level bandwith from GSM technology, especially when more than one person will be using the line.

    Also, in my experience public WIFI providers tend to charge an arm and a leg for the service. I'm sure the trial is free, but I can't see it remaining that way when the role the service out to "standard class". 1 per email, anyone ?

    1. Re:Amazing bandwidth multiplication. by mattjb0010 · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to know how the expect to get DSL-level bandwith from GSM technology, especially when more than one person will be using the line.

      RTFA!?

    2. Re:Amazing bandwidth multiplication. by tgrasl · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I don't see anything in any of the links that suggests to me they are going to get any sort of decent bandwidth - 4-6 GSM lines ? You're kidding, right ?

    3. Re:Amazing bandwidth multiplication. by mattjb0010 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I don't see anything in any of the links that suggests to me they are going to get any sort of decent bandwidth - 4-6 GSM lines ? You're kidding, right ?

      That's only in the tunnels. Elsewhere satellite is used in conjunction with GSM and digital TV connections, if you'd bothered to follow the "HOW IT WORKS" link.

    4. Re:Amazing bandwidth multiplication. by tgrasl · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected (I confess to paying more attention to the image than the text), but still await to be convinced :)

    5. Re:Amazing bandwidth multiplication. by Mr2cents · · Score: 1

      The upload bandwidth would be more interesting to know. Do they use satellite upload, or do they use the cellphone lines for upload and the satellite for download?
      The latter would be simpler, because I think you'd need a license to upload to a satellite. Does anyone know how this is done with satellite phones e.g.?

      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
  15. I'll believe it when I see it by badzilla · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sounds like a desperate attempt to upsell seats in first class to me. I doubt if it's going to work because you're either willing to pay thru the nose for a special seat or you're not, how does better internet access make a difference? I already can and do get an adequate bluetooth/GPRS connection anyway, even in economy class.

    Also the UK train system does not have a particularly good record for efficiency, they really struggle with the retailing computers in the snack-bar so why do I not have a good feeling about their ability to operate a satellite link. Personally I would put "not crashing" at the top of my train wish-list instead of wi-fi.

    --
    "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
    1. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by matthew.thompson · · Score: 1

      Personally I'd put not crashing at the top of my wish lists for cars yet you still see people with mobile phones to their ears - or worse still texting their mates while they drive.

      I've seen people reading books and newspapers in the car WHILE driving - not just while stopped and with portable DVD players becoming more and more prevalent they're starting to take away from the brain time of the modern driver.

      As an earlier poster mentioned there are 6 people killed on roads in the UK each day yet there are less than that killed each YEAR on the trains.

      I can see exactly why they're putting these services on trains, along with Virgin's installation of Airline style audio systems - flying has become so much cheaper recently that it's seen as a better alternative.

      --
      Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
    2. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by Espen · · Score: 1

      The trial is in first class, which seems like a sensible choice if your aim is to test the system in a subset of the train where passengers are likely to have laptops which can be connected.

    3. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At this point, I'd like to note that using a mobile phone in a car will be made almost illegal as of the 1st of December.

      From then, you will have to have a fitted cradle for the phone with a hands free kit. This should cut that particular little nuisance out of the equation, even if the fines are a little on the light side (30, no penalty points on licence)

  16. France is doing it too by Krunch · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here is a link (PDF). Sorry it's in French but I can't find one in English. Here is the Google translation of the HTML version.

    --
    No GNU has been Hurd during the making of this comment.
    1. Re:France is doing it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google for "SNCF wireless" and you'll find several hits in English. One is http://www-1.ibm.com/industries/wireless/doc/conte nt/news/pressrelease/973422104.html

  17. More technical details by nickovs · · Score: 4, Informative

    The technology for this is provided by Icomera. There are some more data about what their technology does, though not really much about how it works. Their speciality seems to be "Seamless Handover" between the different types of network connection.

    --
    If intelligent life is too complex to evolve on its own, who designed God?
  18. Not detected (yet) by 00_NOP · · Score: 1

    I operate an open node not more than 150 metres from a major railway bridge over the GNER - not seen any signs of a connection (yet) :)

    1. Re:Not detected (yet) by tiger99 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hat you read the GNER web site carefully, you would see that it is only installed in one coach of one train, and at the speed they would normally pass, you would be unlikely to have time to achieve a connection anyway.

    2. Re:Not detected (yet) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Had I been RTFA then clearly I would be too intelligent to post on slashdot.

  19. Slight problem... by JoeBaldwin · · Score: 1

    COnsidering that this is GNER, the net will probably be faster than the train.

    --
    I'm amazing. You aren't. SUCK IT
  20. *sigh* by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    And on polish trains, there's even no electricity in 220V sockets. :(
    not to mention bathrooms working maybe in 20% cases. ...and they complain railways are unprofitable here.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  21. Will we notice the difference? by SW6 · · Score: 5, Funny
    "The. Eight. Oh two. Packets to. London. Are running approximately. Sixty Five. Minutes late. GNER apologise for the late running of your Internet Connection."

    "The nine-*crackle* packets from *garble* will now be arriving at platform *mumble*."

  22. Give people more info by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What would be really cool is access to a real-time train map like the controllers see, then you can see the real reason your train just stopped in the middle of no-where for 15 mins with no explination. Also - and i dont think transportation people have really caught on to this fact: things always seem faster when you have a moving progress bar on a screen (it has to move every second). People want to be able to see whats going on and when - thats why people like the count-down displays at bus stops and on the tube.

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    1. Re:Give people more info by TarpaKungs · · Score: 3, Informative
      That system is called TDS (Train Describer System) and is a front end to the signalmen's panels.

      I agree - whenever I catch sight of a TDS screen, the information is far more useful to me than the CIS (Customer mis-Information System) that powers the platform screens and indicators -assuming they haven crashed (most of the time) or aren't displaying an MS Windows error dialogue!

      They should deinately have a web front end to the TDS maps.

      --
      Why can't women be like Hedy Lamarr - beautiful, talented and inventors of frequency-hopping spread-spectrum techn
  23. Rail safety ... by JonyEpsilon · · Score: 4, Funny
    You will experience approximately the same kind of quality as with a DSL connection though the connection speed will vary based on obstacles along the railway track

    Never mind the connection speed varying - we're all gonna die !

    1. Re:Rail safety ... by oPless · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Not to mention some annoying prick will be whoring bandwidth by using kazargh to download kiddie porn or whatever.

  24. Why has the parent been moderated as a troll? by Yer+Mum · · Score: 1

    It's completely factual and messing around plumbing wifi in British trains smacks of re-arranging the deckchairs while the Titanic sinks.

  25. WiFi LAN Game Protocol? by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To really enjoy this train wifi, we need a LAN Game protocol designed for publically used WiFi locations. This would let people publish a list of which games they might like to play and support connectinons to others. Any LAN-playable game would need some type of plugin that provides information about how to connect to other (i.e., a Chess app would only let one other person connect, an MMORG would define which scenarios different people want to play, etc.) That way the person in car 2 could find a game buddy in car 4 without any prearrangements with that person.

    I see only two problems. The first is security. Depending on who programs the protocol, it could end up with exploits. Also, the games might provide a channel for exploits if someone uses a hacked copy of Doom to insinuate themselves into another rider's laptop. The second problem would be playability when the person in car 3 decides to use the 5 hour journey to download the latest Linux distro.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  26. Speed and happiness by heironymouscoward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is a great step forwards.

    People will complain about late or cancelled trains but the fact is that no journey is every fast enough if you're not enjoying yourself, and no journey is too slow if you're having a good time.

    The question therefore is: will on-board internet links make life better or worse for travellers? And the answer is obviously "yes".

    With a notebook and wifi, even long waits are entirely bearable and can be fun. I'd rather a four-hour train journey with wifi than a two hour flight without.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
    1. Re:Speed and happiness by DanBrusca · · Score: 2, Funny

      "The question therefore is: will on-board internet links make life better or worse for travellers? And the answer is obviously "yes"."

      Hmmm...

      I think 'better' or 'worse' would have been more obvious answers ;)

    2. Re:Speed and happiness by rokzy · · Score: 1

      wasn't that the joke? both answers are correct.

    3. Re:Speed and happiness by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      "no journey is too slow if you're having a good time" Unless you're one of the people who are actually going somewhere and have a deadline to meet, rather than just spending a day travelling on the trains in some weird trainspotter ritual.

  27. Better, better, it was "better" by heironymouscoward · · Score: 1

    Sometimes I wish I'd finished 3rd grade so I could finish sentences correctly. Well, I meant "yes, better". Usually I flame my own posts when I find obvious errors in them. You beat me to it.

    Back to the story, I think trains, planes, airports and terminals are about the only places where WiFi has a real future, where there is a captive market with notebooks and money to spend on keeping up to date with their latest Slashdot karma.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature
  28. STFU FAG, I'M GUNNA FILL YOUR FAG EARS WITH MY CUM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?
    LISTEN to the SOUND of my COCK spewing a quart of CUM into your little FAGGOT EARS! Hear that, FAGGOT?

  29. We don't need no stinking laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    ...Not having a laptop is probably going to be an issue as well...

    Why? I just take my desktop. As long as the UPS battery lasts, I'm good. Take two UPSs and its like swapping batteries on a laptop. Granted I get a few funny looks when I'm walking down the street. But what geek doesn't. (Besides a get a more powerful machine for less money.)

  30. Re:STFU FAG, I'M GUNNA FILL YOUR FAG EARS WITH MY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have to be a real man to do something like that over the internet! I bet people in the place you live really look up to you.

  31. Amtrak/Caltrans Surfliner by MsGeek · · Score: 1
    Amtrak works -- and is profitable --in certain parts of the U.S. The problem is they have to keep the unprofitable running of many long distance routes due to congressional pressure. The same Congress that won't let Amtrak cut unprofitable long distance routes is the same Congress that whines about giving them a few hundred million a year in subsidy (all while saying that spending 87 billion in Iraq is no big deal, it's just a drop in the bucket).

    Actually the Surfliner, which runs between Goleta and San Diego, is another major profit center for Amtrak. So much so that during the time that it looked like the Bush administration was going to kill Amtrak Caltrans was absolutely drooling over the possibility of raking in those Surfliner revenues without having to split it with Uncle Sam.

    The Surfliner has two classes: Coach and Business. Business class costs $9 each way and includes a newspaper, a snack box and more comfortable seats. On a particularly crowded Summer day, sometimes it's worth it to spring for the extra $18 to get some elbow room. 802.11b would make it even more worth it. Amtrak should definitely consider this.

    Oh yeah, when you are dealing with a metal box (which is what a train is) you already have a Faraday Cage. It's highly unlikely that the hoi polloi in the cheap seats could get any signal leaking in from Business Class.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  32. GNER uses Electric 225 trains - 225 kph or 140 mph by Jack+Hughes · · Score: 1
    They are a bit quicker than most of the Diesel Intercity trains which go at 125 Mph (Intercity 125). But not as fast as the brand new trains on the high speed link to the channel tunnel.

    Of course, in these days of crashes and litigation, they daren't go faster than about 100mph in practice.

    Either way, you wouldn't be able to keep up in a car.

  33. Caltrain? by epall · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    All right! Now, how long till Caltrain (Bay Area commuter rail) gets this?

  34. Re:GNER uses Electric 225 trains - 225 kph or 140 by csteinle · · Score: 1

    GNER does use some diesels. They run a few trains north of Edinburgh to Aberdeen or Inverness, and there's no electric lines north of Edinburgh/Glasgow. I get the Inverness bound one fairly regularly.

  35. Wardriver fatalities Increase by reality-bytes · · Score: 1

    The availablity of this service may have serious consequences for the UK wardriver community.

    I can see now swathes of Wardrivers being killed at the wheel while driving in excess of 110mph trying to maintain the "perfect signal" they just aquired.

    Oh the dark times ahead....

    --
    Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
  36. Re:GNER uses Electric 225 trains - 225 kph or 140 by tiger99 · · Score: 0
    So do I, from London, but only as far as Stirling, and despite the critics it is an excellent service. The HST aka IC125 is probably the finest diesel train ever built, they are getting old now, but the coaches are still the favourite of most passengers. Some are almost as old as Concorde IIRC, evidently from an era of real progress in engineering.

    Just to further clarify things for the great mass of gas-guzzling, benzene-emitting car drivers, approximately every second electric service to Edinburgh is extended to Glasgow, clearly the best way (and often the cheapest!) to get to Glasgow while work on the West Coast Main Line is in progress. And no, neither diesel nor electric trains emit benzine, a deadly carcinogen, in any more than a trace amount, and a train load of around 500 people produces much less CO2 than 500 people in cars.

  37. reminds me of this comic by ianmorris · · Score: 1

    this web comic it mentions gaming in trains to pass the time

    --
    i am the self-proclaimed king of free stuff

  38. Re:Residents near the train tracks get free WiFi t by tiger99 · · Score: 1

    A lot less than 30 seconds. The train will cover 1 miles in that time.

  39. Re:The real cost...Which A1? by N+Monkey · · Score: 1

    There is little chance to see the A1 in England.
    So the "A1" that runs northwards from London is a complete figment of my imagination?! I wish the same could be said for the traffic jams on it!

    Back on topic-ish, there's a section of the M1 in the outskirts of London that runs parallel to a major line. The cars and trains seem to travel at about the same speed in that section so I suppose there's a chance of some (very dangerous) bandwidth theft.

  40. Typing as a biker..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Also they tend to rely on their size to intimidate. In theory nobody is supposed to pull any sort of maneuver without looking first

    Funny that.
    I'm a biker and could say exactly everything you said applies to how cars treat bikes...

  41. Those Trains aren't double-deckers? by Pegasus5327t · · Score: 1

    Why would they waist their time on this when WiMax is within 6 months of deploying? Is that too soon a reality? Hey Hey is anyone else interested in 802.16 & 802.20? "A man hears what he wants to hear & disregards the rest"{Simon & Garfunkel 196?}-- I guess

    --
    If you're not cheating you're not trying.