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For Us, The Living, by Robert A. Heinlein
The book starts with an excellent foreword from Spider Robinson, a friend of Heinlein's as well as a fan, and an excellent Sci-Fi writer in his own right. Spider lays it all out for you in the foreword: this book isn't strong on stories, it's strong on ideas. People who found Heinlein's later works too preachy should steer clear, as this book is probably his preachiest. Robinson speculates that Heinlein really wanted to convey his radical ideas, having just lost a political race, and spent too much of the book standing on the proverbial soapbox, and not enough telling a good story. He says that Heinlein learned from this, and went on to become a master storyteller, learning that people are much more likely to sit still for the lecture if it's embedded in a gripping story.
And that leads me to exactly what's wrong with For Us, The Living. There's very little story in it. There is a plot, and it goes like this. Perry, our hero, (n reality a thinly veiled version of Heinlein himself), is involved in a car accident in 1939, and wakes up in the year 2086 in the body of someone who looks very much like himself, but the original inhabitant of the body chose to end his life (shades of Stranger in a Strange Land here). Our Hero was discovered in the snowy Nevada mountains by a woman named Diana, who is a professional dancer and lives in the mountains. She takes him back to her place to recover, and they're lounging around her house naked by the second page of the book.
From then on, the rest of the book is primarily spent following our hero as he is lectured (literally at times) on the ways of the future, covering topics such as polygamy/polyamory, nudism, the stupidity of jealousy, economics, religion, and the treatment of criminals as patients who need to be cured, rather than miscreants who need to be punished. Many of the ideas that turn up later in Heinlein's books, especially his later books, appear here for the first time. The book is very much, as Spider calls it in the foreword, Heinlein's literary DNA. This is the primordial ooze from which the later books, (Time Enough For Love, Stranger in a Strange Land, Starship Troopers, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and dozens more) are formed.
I found Heinlein's predictions of the future very interesting. Since the book was written in 1938-1939, the world hadn't witnessed World War II yet, though Heinlein predicts it. In his version, the U.S. stays out of the War, and Europe eventually self-destructs. Heinlein gets quite a bit of the future right, and quite a bit of it wrong. For instance, in 2086, they still haven't landed a man on the moon, though they're working on it. And, while in the future everyone has terminals (seen in later Heinlein novels) from which they can access live video and audio, information is still printed on paper and transported physically via pneumatic (and magnetic) tubes. But, given that it was written before the atomic age, those things are forgiven, and they're part of what makes the book interesting to read.
It's very obvious why this book wasn't published in 1939 -- it's not very good. Also, much of the subject matter is so controversial and sexual to this day that no major publisher would have dared print it then. The book is a bit rough, and a bit "off" in places. For instance, Heinlein uses a two-page footnote(!) to give us Diana's life story, rather than weave it into the story or the dialogue, something he'd never do in his later work, and the story only starts to get compelling in the last 50 pages or so, once the bulk of the lectures are past us.
So do I recommend this book? Yes and no. If you're a Heinlein fan, and you've read most, if not all, of his other work, then you'll love this book, and you should get a copy right now. It's a great snapshot of Heinlein's writing while he was still struggling to define it himself. If you've never read a Heinlein book, don't start here, pick up Starship Troopers, or Have Spacesuit, Will Travel. If you've read a few Heinlein books, read a few more before you try this one, especially Time Enough For Love, and his later works. I've read everything he ever published, and was sad when I finished off The Menace From Earth, as I'd run out of Heinlein to read. This book provided me with one more thrill, and it made me appreciate how strongly Heinlein held his convictions, and how far he came as a writer, from this, his first attempt.
Now that Bob & Ginny Heinlein have passed on, however, this is almost certainly the last significant piece of Heinlein's writing left unpublished, and for us, the living, it's fun to have something new from the Grand Master to curl up with on a cold winter night.
You can purchase For Us, The Living from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to submit a review for consideration, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
As always, links to pictures will be posted.
Would somebody care to explain who Henlein is, and why his book is on the front-page of slashdot.org?
((lambda x ((x))) (lambda x ((x))))
toaster,toaster toaser, do you have toast in you yet i think
so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Im not a toaster!!!!!!!!!!And one more
thing........YOUR A TOASER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND A COOKIE WITH MILK SOAGE
MILK!!!!!!!!!!AND A BUTT WITH POOP IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I highly reccommend this to anybody who is interested in the vague topic area covered by this book.
Heinlein does a great job of explaining the way Californians are perpetuating their state's misery, the way ghosts are sometimes seen through peoples windows.
It is a very good pickup, worth at least a look at the library or a perouse through the pages at Borders.
He's not the best writer in the world, but he does a good job of explaining the subject matter.
I've always liked his style. I admit that his main caracters were all essentally the same core personality, but I can truly say that I seriously enjoyed most all of his writing. This will be something I will get no matter what.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
Now shut your fucking trap before I smack you senseless.
Heinlein's *preachiest* book?
Thats right there on my TODO list with:
i) Jim Carrey's wackiest movie,
ii) Todd Rundgren's most experimental synthesiser sounds,
iii) Elvis Presley's most sugary ballads
and
iV) JRR Tolkein's most esoteric back-of-an-envelope scribbling, lovingly -- and profitably -- edited by his hack son.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Is to make totally sure you've destroyed EVERY copy of a manuscript you never want to see the light of day, because after you're dead, some self-serving snot will publish it for the world to see and who cares about your wishes in the matter.
You can tell a great deal about the character of a man by observing those who hate him.
For Us, The Living, Robert A. Heinlein's first novel, ... in fact, it works best as what it is, the last piece of Heinlein's work to be published, and it should almost certainly be one of the last pieces someone starting to read Heinlein should attempt.
Is this just a mis-type, or is his first novel the last one to be published...?
...he was a pervert into incest and the like from the beginning?
Good to know. I'll steer clear of this one, too.
-jls
Techno-pagan
The first novel of Heinlein's I read was "Time Enough for Love", and it made a huge impression on the teenager I was. I loved it.
Then I read "Stranger in A Strange Land", and I thought it was very similar in important respects, but I still liked it.
I went on to read several more of his books and short stories, and eventually I came to feel that he simply took the same central ideas, wrapped them in a thin veneer of different characters, and re-published them as a "new" book.
MAN, did I quickly grow tired of him!
(It did NOT help that I think his politics suck.)
Asimov is the Grand Master, not Heinlein. (In my opinion.)
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
Perry, our hero, (in reality a thinly veiled version of Heinlein himself), is involved in a car accident in 1939, and wakes up in the year 2086 in the body of someone who looks very much like himself, but the original inhabitant of the body chose to end his life (shades of Stranger in a Strange Land here). Our Hero was discovered in the snowy Nevada mountains by a woman named Diana, who is a professional dancer and lives in the mountains. She takes him back to her place to recover, and they're lounging around her house naked by the second page of the book.
Well, come on. The poor guy hasn't had an erection in 147 years. I'm surprised he waited until the second page to start getting it on.
You really don't know how to use your fucking newly-given mod points do you, you fucking nerds?
Fuck you all.
Thanks for the review...I'll probably check it out, as I've read about 85% of Heinlein's work. However, you recommend people start with "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel?" I'm sorry, that was not one of his better works. It was actually rather...lame. The characters were weak, the story was extremely thin. Invaders from space? You don't say. Try "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress." That was far and away one of the finest books I have ever read.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
RTFA
literally the first novel he ever wrote (and tried to sell) was the last novel published.
to more accurate 'latest novel published' or 'published thus far' would be appropriate -- particularly given the longevity of post-humous publishing anymore.
i'd be willing to bet this is by no means the only manuscript he shopped that didnt' sell.
likely there's another half-baked manuscript in a closet somewhere that'll be published by his estate the next time they'd like to drum up some cash.
the world hadn't witnessed World War II yet, though Heinlein predicts it. In his version, the U.S. stays out of the War, and Europe eventually self-destructs.
The US did enter World War II and Europe did not self-destruct, the US and Russia destroyed it. So what exactly did Heinlein predict?
If you're familiar with the word "grok" -- used to indicated grasp something completely, on every level -- you know Heinlein's work. The word is from Stranger In a Strange Land, arguably his greatest book, and a work that helped define science fiction for several generations. Heinlein's stories are classics; one of my personal favorites -- blanking on the title at the moment -- was about a society in which all citizens are required by law to carry guns. Duels are common, and everybody is incredibly polite :-). (I disagree with that objective, but I found the concept well-executed. As it were). Heinlein often exhibted a kind of crypto-fascist ideology on a certain level (read the book Starship Troopers and you'll get more out the humor within the movie), but it's not clear whether he actually believed it or was just being provocative. Sadly, much of his output after Stranger -- which came out in the early sixties -- was largely derivative of his earlier works.
Is to make totally sure you've destroyed EVERY copy of a manuscript you never want to see the light of day, because after you're dead, some self-serving snot will publish it for the world to see and who cares about your wishes in the matter.
Hey, we're already at the stage where Douglas Adams had an unfinished book recovered from his hard drive and published.
If you want to be safe, use a word processor on a computer that never connects to a network (could recover data on the network), restrict your copies to removable disk to those you would be happy being published or are able to destroy, and at some stage physically destroy the hard drive beyond any possible recovery.
In fact, do the same to *any* part of the computer that might (even temporarily) have held your data, including the monitor.
Paranoid? Well, I'm trying to second-guess information recovery in 20-30 years time, and I defy anyone to say that this will never happen.
Of course, the radiation from your monitor probably induced microscopic interference in the TV signal your VCR is recording nearby, and with advanced signal-processing and pattern-recognition, your great lost tome is recovered from an episode of Dawson's Creek you taped back in 2003.
Yuk.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I was thinking this would either be a cruder version of his earlier work, or a polemic. The fact that he hung on to it suggests it was important to him, so I'd suspected it involved his prevailing themes (sexual freedom, personal responsibility, etc.)
Heinlein hated the direction he foresaw the world taking, and it came out more and more in his later works, when he could write pretty much anything and his publisher would print it. I confess to liking Number of the Beast, but lord Bob almighty, it certainly can't compare to Stranger or The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. I'm glad Heinlein took the time to refine his craft.
That said, I'm kinda looking forward to reading what sounds like a Mary Sue story that neither he nor Ginny would ever have let see the light of day during their lives.
-Carolyn
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
He's the one scifi author I have yet to read.
Needle Nardle Noo
Hubbard went out and did it.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
And we all know that Heinlien was notorious as a raving libertarian looney. Hell, he's practically slashdot's patron saint.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Hmm... "For Us the Living"? Try "We the Living" published four years earlier by Ayn Rand. Title thief! (Actually, for the record, I've never read "For Us the Living", but I have read "We the Living")
If it's not one thing it's your mother.
Come on, America! Let's do what Napoleon and Hitler were to wussy to pull off!!!!
Goddamn Heinlein,
Give it up! Yer supposed to be dead for chrissakes! STOP WRITING!!!
Give us unknown nobodies a chance huh?
Thanks.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
The second, following We, the Living. It will be followed by Stephen King's We, the Dead. Then the series continues with Jerry Garcia's unpublished autobiography, For Us, the Dead. Finally it will be concluded with a Michael Crichton book, We, the terminally ill, but feeling better today. Perhaps there's still hope for a transplant.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
As some other well know Sci-fi writter.
I love a lot of diffrent writter's works, but it is the religion and politics they get into sometimes I can live without. Just stick to writting guy's, that is what you do best.
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
This will never happen.
that is all.
[Posting AC so I can't be accused of karma whoring.]
For Us, The Living, by Robert A. Heinlein
Posted by timothy on 12-12-03 11:00
Sethb (jew) writes "For Us, The Living, Robert A. Heinlein's first novel, written in 1938, is not a lost masterpiece. It is, however, a fascinating piece of writing for the Heinlein fan to ingest. It's not a book you should give to a friend to introduce them to Heinlein, in fact, it works best as what it is, the last piece of Heinlein's work to be published, and it should almost certainly be one of the last pieces someone starting to read Heinlein should attempt." Read on for Sethb's review. M: CBC also has a feature about the book. For Us, The LIving
author Robert A. Heinlein
pages 288 pages
publisher Scribner
rating 3
reviewer Seth Bokelman
ISBN 074325998X
summary Great piece for die-hard Heinlein fans, not for newbies.
The book starts with an excellent foreword from Spider Robinson, a friend of Heinlein's as well as a fan, and an excellent Sci-Fi writer in his own right. Spider lays it all out for you in the foreword: this book isn't strong on stories, it's strong on ideas. People who found Heinlein's later works too preachy should steer clear, as this book is probably his preachiest. Robinson speculates that Heinlein really wanted to convey his radical ideas, having just lost a political race, and spent too much of the book standing on the proverbial soapbox, and not enough telling a good story. He says that Heinlein learned from this, and went on to become a master storyteller, learning that people are much more likely to sit still for the lecture if it's embedded in a gripping story.
And that leads me to exactly what's wrong with For Us, The Living. There's very little story in it. There is a plot, and it goes like this. Perry, our hero, (n reality a thinly veiled version of Heinlein himself), is involved in a car accident in 1939, and wakes up in the year 2086 in the body of someone who looks very much like himself, but the original inhabitant of the body chose to end his life (shades of Stranger in a Strange Land here). Our Hero was discovered in the snowy Nevada mountains by a woman named Diana, who is a professional dancer and lives in the mountains. She takes him back to her place to recover, and they're lounging around her house naked by the second page of the book.
From then on, the rest of the book is primarily spent following our hero as he is lectured (literally at times) on the ways of the future, covering topics such as polygamy/polyamory, nudism, the stupidity of jealousy, economics, religion, and the treatment of criminals as patients who need to be cured, rather than miscreants who need to be punished. Many of the ideas that turn up later in Heinlein's books, especially his later books, appear here for the first time. The book is very much, as Spider calls it in the foreword, Heinlein's literary DNA. This is the primordial ooze from which the later books, (Time Enough For Love, Stranger in a Strange Land, Starship Troopers, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and dozens more) are formed.
I found Heinlein's predictions of the future very interesting. Since the book was written in 1938-1939, the world hadn't witnessed World War II yet, though Heinlein predicts it. In his version, the U.S. stays out of the War, and Europe eventually self-destructs. Heinlein gets quite a bit of the future right, and quite a bit of it wrong. For instance, in 2086, they still haven't landed a man on the moon, though they're working on it. And, while in the future everyone has terminals (seen in later Heinlein novels) from which they can access live video and audio, information is still printed on paper and transported physically via pneumatic (and magnetic) tubes. But, given that it was written before the atomic age, those things are forgiven, and they're part of what makes the book interesting to read.
It's very obvious why this book wasn't published in 1939 -- it's not very good. Also, much of the subject matter is so c
Be afraid for the future, very afraid!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I believe the last Heinlein you should read is "I will fear no evil." I almost did not read "Stranger in a Strange Land" because I had the misfortune to read "I will fear no evil" first.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
He had given a copy to a friend and it was found, he later destroyed all the copies he had. Or so the story goes...
I love Dr. A's work, but he produced so d@#n MUCH of it! The Robot stories alone qualify him for Grand Master status; the Foundation takes a much longer-term look at history and the forces that drive it than RAH really did, his short stories fill volumes... it's not uniformly Great, but it's almost always interesting. The problem is, it takes months or years to work your way through it all - on the other hand, it's not over so quickly. I could probably keep myself happy for a couple of weeks on the proverbial desert island with just the Robot and Foundation books and stories.
Then there are the hundreds of non-fiction works he authored, then edited (later). He's one of the ones I still miss, because I know if he were still alive, he'd still be writing, and I'd still be looking forward to his next work.
I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians.
Remember those L. Ron Hubbard billboards? "Ten Bestsellers - and More to Come!" that appeared after he was dead? Scientology put those up during that weird period when it wasn't clear whether Hubbard was dead or not.
This sounds exactly like the kind of book I would like to buy.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
In addition to the geat novels others have mentioned here, be sure to check out All You Zombies, a (short!) short story that's one of the tightest time-travel tales you'll ever read. Originally published in 1959, you can find it in The Fantasies of Robert A Heinlein, a short-story collection. There's also a full copy online somewhere, posted by an English prof. for his class but accessible to anyone.
I love Heinlein, but when I picked up "I will fear no evil" last year.
;) At least Beast one has the root of some of the ideas in Time Enough For Love and Friday in it.
I'd rather read the Number of the Beast 6 times back-to-back! Or maybe 6x6x6 times
Lord Pixel - The cat who walks through walls
A little bigger on the inside than out
I really don't understand why so many people are crazy about Heinlein.
I have read Heinlein and found his work embarrassingly corny and dated. Contrast with Philip K. Dick, whose ideas seem uncannily (and frighteningly) relevant to our own time.
I wanna see the Wachowski brothers make "The Menace From Earth".
No, I don't wanna see Jeff in a trenchcoat and Holly in black PVC. I wanna see Ariel falling in bullet time with Holly chasing her. And I want the soundtrack to be QUIET while they are doing it.
Stuff I recommend you avoid unless you find out you really like Hienlein is "The Cat who walks through walls" "Time enough for Love" and defintely "I will fear no Evil". Frankly I think all his Lazurus Long books except 'Moon' are trash.
"A Door into Summer" is a favourite of mine, and Its not one of the ones people talk about much. I wouldn't say 'Friday' is dull, its just mostly fluff.
Check out this site www.iblist.com for good reveiws of his work.
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
His widow published the original SISL manuscript which was about 30% longer than the 1960s version. There is a section at the beginning about MArtian society which is interesting. Unfortantely the blowhard character Jubal has longer speeches too.
I would have to concur with the recommendation to read 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' -- great story, interesting ideas, with a minimum of preaching. Another good one if 'Farnham's Freehold', sort of an 'On the Beach' from an American view point, with some sci-fi thrown in. 'Have Spacesuit Will Travel' and 'Farmer in the Sky' are much more junior adult type books. On the preachier side is something like 'Time Enough for Love' and 'Stranger in a Strange Land'.
Add in Podkayne of Mars, a YA novel with a young girl feminist(!) Mars native. The ending is somewhat controversial, and a contest for an alternative ending was held.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
I really miss Douglas Adams (Hitchhikers, etc.) I wonder what Heinlein and Adams talk about now?
How many times did Star Trek have an episode about a culture who forgot its ancestors, or its raison d'etre? This is one of the most common story lines today in SF.
According to Spider Robinson's web site (spiderrobinson.com), Heinlein wrote an outline for a "borderline juvenile" novel in 1957 named "Variable Star"; this outline has been given by Heinlein's estate to Spider to write. It hasn't been sold to a publisher yet, and Spider's got some other work in the queue first, so it won't be finished until mid-'05 at the earliest, but this is one of the most marvelous pieces of news I have heard in a long time.
Mashed potatoes can be your friends!
Indeed, Heinlein makes many good predictions about future social behavior.
You are simply trapped into the social constructs of your time, like most are.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
those that base their religion/philosophies on Science Fiction books.
Probably the biggest recent purported example of this is Osama Bin Laden's fascination with Asimov's "Foundation" trilogy. When it was translated to arabic, it was titled "Al-Qaida".
For reference, take a look at All Your Base... or War of the worlds. The original story was in the Ottawa Citizen (I couldn't find a link to the article).
Scary stuff when a 50 year old Sci-Fi novel could be considered as the base for a terrorist philosophy.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
I liked the movie, but only after convincing myself that it was in fact an original work, rather than an adaptation of the similarly titled Heinlein masterpeice.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
Name me a culture where there isn't/wasn't an incest taboo?
You forgot to conclude it with the Monty Python book, We, the Not Quite Dead Yet.
You know, I love to curl up with many of Heinlein's books, but calling him the "Grand Master" is a bit extreme, I don't care how many Hugos are buried with the guy. He was a master of dialoge and an engaging wit -- but damn, he only used four or five different characters (renamed, natch) in 90% of his books. He may have had a million plotlines, but only a couple different stories.
Strip the bald plotline out, and they all break down like this, roughly:
Starship Troopers (one of my favorites) would have been a short story without the Mein Kampf-esque rants...
Grand Master? No. He titilated the core demographic, offended the stodgy, and lived (and wrote) for a really really long time. He was born at the right time to be hitting his stride (like Asimov) during the Golden Age of Science Fiction. All this recent publication does is strip away the veneer.
I just finished For Us, The Living last night, and I agreed with most of what this reviewer said.
He did miss one glaringly obvious fact about this book, though, to anyone familiar with Utopian literature -- it's essentially a retelling of Edward Bellamy's Looking Backward . Bellamy was looking backward from 2000 to 1887, and Heinlein from 2086 to 1939, of course. In addition, Heinlein's idea of how a perfect world would look differs considerably from Bellamy's. But the similarities between the two are spooky, and not to be explained by the inherent similarities between all Utopian books.
I wouldn't hand this Heinlein book to someone not already familiar with Heinlein, or to anyone just looking for a good story. It isn't a good story. I would, however, hend it to someone interested in political thought and social engineering without hesitation, even if I thought that person would not be interested in Heinlein the storyteller. Nearly all of Heinlein's ideas about people, politics, and society are here.
Catherine
Perry, our hero, (n reality a thinly veiled version of Heinlein himself)
I'm wondering why book reviewers feel confident in statements like this. How can you be so sure that Perry is a "thinly veiled version of Heinlein himself"? And even if it's true, what makes it such a crime? Are you implying that Heinlein was being lazy or something?
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Unregulated capitalism does not create monopolies - regulated capitalism creates monopolies. This might sound like a standard slashdot response, but there has not ever (to my knowledge) been a monopoly that has risen to power without the help of a government either through a special deal (railroads) or some sort of law or regulation protecting them from competing (patents, copyrights).
One of the first things that you learn in an economics class is how in a capitalist society any company making profits will eventually have competition.
Probably the single stupidist vision of how things should work ever proposed.
It's the do-nothing vision of how things should work. No planning, not even any recognition of a problem. In other words, pretty much the perfect human solution to such a problem.
I strongly suspect that's about how it's going to work out, too.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Some have mentioned "Time Enough for Love" as a work to avoid, yet on the whole it is probably the work of his I enjoyed most. Some of his best stories are imbedded as novelettes within the framework of the larger book. But then again, it features quite a bit of incest between characters, which some might find distasteful.
Generally, with Heinlein, I think his best work is consistently the stuff he did in the first person ("Puppet Masters", "Moon is a Harsh Mistress", "Starship Troopers", and "Double Star".) So you could approach it that way.
And if you'd like to get some insight into a very different period of race consciousness in American history, check out "Sixth Column". One of the most overtly rascist sci-fi novels I have read, but it was early in his career, and I do think he grew beyond that early narrow-minded perspective as he progressed. It is strange when writers and thinkers of the past are judged by modern standards of enlightenment, but I have no doubt that they should be as part of a legitimate critical interpretation. Funny that Shakespeare and Twain, in some ways, age better in that perspective than many writers of the 20th century.
"the best safety of the frontier...will be secured by total annihilation of the few remaining indians" L Frank Baum 1890
I believe that it is Harlan Ellison that wrote into his will that all unfinished manuscripts be destroyed upon his death.
The cake is a pie
I would reccommend getting your feet wet with some of his short stories, "The Menace to Earth" being the best example that comes to mind immediately.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
It's interesting to note how the quality of Heinlein's work declined starting in the late 60s. First his plots started to get a little disorganized, then a lot disorganized, until finally most of his books were little more than meandering rants. He was still basically a good writer, but he slipped into a lot of bad habits. I think he always basically an undisciplined writer, but when he was a struggling pulp writer, he had to accept correction from his editors. Once he became The Grand Old Man, he could escape that, and the result was often horrendous. Like early editions of Time Enough for Love, which weren't even checked for proper punctuation!
The Annapolis speech also mentions the only class he considered to have taught him anything about writing. It wasn't an English or Lit class. It was a command in giving orders, the motto of which was "Any order that can be misunderstood, will be misunderstood." Student of the origins of Murphy's Law take note!
As the anonymous poster said, it is regulation that permits a monopoly to be created, not the absense of regulation.
Let's look at the ever popular hypothetical "widget" market:
Is WidgetCo now a monopoly? I say no.
If, in the absence of competition, WidgetCo begins raising it's prices, or begins building inferior quality widgets, in an unregulated market, someone can start a new company, UltraWidge.
If UltraWidge can offer the same quality widgets at a lower price, they will be successful, perhaps so much so that WidgeCo will have to alter their pricing.
If UltraWidge can offer a higher quality widget at the same price as those offerred by WidgeCo, then again, they will be successful, perhaps so much so that WidgeCo will have to improve the quality of their own widgets.
Let's add some regulation:
Now, when WidgeCo starts raising the prices on it's widgets, or letting the quality of it's widgets slip, what happens?
Nothing. You and I, the consumers, get the shaft.
No new start-up widgetmaker will emerge, because the cost of building a certified widget manufacturing plant is too expensive (Not expensive for WidgeCo, which is a well established company, with enormous capital reserves), and the cost of the mandatory insurance exceeds the means of most humble entrapeneurs.
No new start-up widgetmaker will emerge because the United States is a closed market. Only WidgeCo is authorized to manufacture and sell widgets to the good people of the United States.
There is no such thing as a naturally occuring monopoly (Not a true monopoly). In a free market, the sole supplier of a good or service must always be concerned that a new competitor will emerge and put them out of business.
When they take advantage of their market position, by raising prices, or cutting corners on quality, consumers seek alternatives, and some other capitalist will see this weakness, and exploit it by entering into that market.
Competition drives prices down, and drive quality up. In a free market, there will always be competition, or at a minimum, the threat of competition.
Now, invariably, on Slashdot, whenever someone talks about free markets and/or monopoly, Bill Gates and Microsoft rears their ugly heads.
Contrary to what many belive, Microsoft is not a monopoly. There are alternatives to Microsoft's operating systems. There are alternatives to Microsoft's suite of business applications. There are alternatives to every product in Microsoft's catalog.
What Microsoft has become is not a monopoly... It has become a "de facto standard," and that's a completely different animal.
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
I found his predictions of the future very interesting. Since the book was written in 1938-1939, the world hadn't witnessed World War II yet, though Heinlein predicts it.
Actually, considering the global state of affairs in 1938-1939, it probably wasn't much of a stretch to predict that a large scale war would happen. Japan had already begun its expansion and Germany had remilitarized and begun annexing countries.
So, not to belabor a hot-button issue too much, but it would be similar to predicting that the US would have some response to 9/11.
Imagine you're, oh, 10, maybe 11 years old. Your mom bought you a copy of Podkayne of Mars (the Baen choose-the-ending version), which you've just finished reading. You go to the local library to look up more books by this "Heinlein" guy, and find a shelf full. Which do you pick? The huge trade paperpack with a lush illustration on the cover, of course. It happens to be Number of the Beast, and it's only the second Heinlein book you've ever read, and it's so much better than the Star Trek paperbacks you've been reading that it permanently warps your mind.
Objectively, rereading NotB now, I can realize that it's just plain not up to spec, but I have happy childhood memories about it. Ditto for I Will Fear No Evil. (It's kinda like He-Man that way.)
-Carolyn
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
Over on Electric Minds, we have a topic called Socrates' Bar & Grill, in which the price of a drink is a quote. For some time, I've been acting as "virtual bartender" at Socrates', and I've kept myself inspired to the task by thinking of Mike Callahan and Jake Stonebender. In some respects, Electric Minds as a whole is kind of like a virtual "Callahan's Place" (or "Mary's Place," or just "The Place"), and, just like Jake opening up Mary's Place after Callahan's got nuked, and then migrating to Key West to launch The Place after Mary's Place closed down, I've been part of the efforts (so far, successful) to keep EMinds alive after its older incarnations fell by the wayside.
Could there ever be a real, physical bar like Callahan's? I don't know...but if I had my druthers, I'd be going there right now.
"Joy or sorrow, it's better if you share,
So I'll take me down to Callahan's, and do my drinking there."
Be who you are...and be it in style!
A personal favorite of mine is Have Spacesuit Will Travel, which is a mix of some gritty hard SF (e.g. survival situation on the moon involving solving problems with incompatible valve fittings) and crazed space opera (an amorphous alien blob named "The Mother Thing", representing the authority of the unified Three Galaxes).
The three books by Heinlein that may ultimately be the most interesting (and also the most controversial) are:
- The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Lunar colonists rebel
against an oppressive earth government, in alliance with an
accidentally developed AI.
- Stranger in a Strange Land - A boy raised by Martians
is brought back to earth, where he displays some tremendous
parapsychological powers, and more importantly an odd
philosphical outlook.
- Starship Troopers - Space wars of the future (some
interesting speculative hardware is featured) fought by an
earth government ruled by a strange form of democracy where
only military veterans [1] are allowed to vote. Some grim
philosphy is presented about the inevitability of war.
Note: Mistress is beloved by libertarians; Stranger was worshipped by sixties hippies (it's literally a cult novel) and Troopers is beloved by conservatives. Be careful about making rash generalizations about what Heinlien was "really" about.[1] Yes, I said "*military* veterans". Yes, I know what Heinlein said in "Expanded Universe". Try reading this (warning PDF): The Nature of "Federal Service" in Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers
As long as we're giving out dos and don'ts, here are my Heinlein Do-reads:
The Puppet Masters
Double Star
The Door Into Summer
Starship Troopers
None should be a disappointment.
Methuselah's Children for the first time Heinlein reader? Ugh! Not unless you're fourteen and you think there's something naturally sexy about Ayn Rand in a commune. Not to mention it's like 800 pages long. If you want to dip into some earlier Heinlein to get a taste of his imagination check out his 1940 short story "And He Built a Crooked House," about an architect who builds a house in the 4th dimension. Wacky stuff. But if you really want the kind of gun-toting bare-breasted redheads and intergenerational orgies repleat with readings from the Fountainhead that a lot of his later work is known for, you should really start with Stranger rather than Methuselah's Children. The former is actually an outstanding book with profound themes, while the latter simply takes the hackneyed theme of the wise old patriarch who spews faux-objectivist dogma in plangent little aphorisms while his crew of horny naked admiring young redheaded girls polish their rifles (when they're not presumably polishing his, that is).
It should be neat to track it up up the best seller lists (Locus summarizes SF titles from the major lists weekly).
For kicks, look at the bottom of the page and try to guess which opening paragraph goes with which reviewed book.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
Here (compliments of Locus
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
And the other novel, an interesting one, is "Beyond This Horizon". We of course are the "Control Naturals". (And President Bush wishes to ensure Americans stay that way)
> Avoid ... "Time Enough for Love".
Well, it begins to show some of the characteristics which become progressively more annyoing in Late Heinlein... However, one of the best stories he ever wrote is the chapter "The Tale of the Adopted Daughter" in this book. It's pretty much a stand-alone story. If you don't read anything else in this book, read "Methuselah's Children" to get to know who Lazarus Long is, then read this chapter of "Time Enough for Love."
I read a Heinlein anthology a long time ago (sorry I cant remember the name-- I think it was a series of short stories describing private industry moving out into space?). Between stories there were little bits of biographical info, and one of the things that struck me was that Heinlein dropped out of an engineering program in the navy.
I was always frustrated by that aspect of Heinlein's writing. Door Into Summer-- putting a few bits of flip flops = perfect AI. Huh? Moon is a Harsh Mistress, the computer is so "smart" it determines probabilities of anything perfectly. That represents an almost childish naivete. To his credit though, he seems to recognize this weakness as an author and never gets too daring with his predictions. (Unlike i.e. OSC -- am I the only one who got a bit frustrated with the "Mormon stephen hawking" bit in Xenocide?)
Your comment about Door Into Summer really brought that back to me.
The terrible thing is that I read most of these when they were relatively new, of course, so was I. Nonetheless, I enjoyed them immensely. The following were my favorites:
Starship Troopers (1959) is a great coming of age story, and contains a profound meditation on the relationship between civil government and the military. Some folks have tarred it as "fascist" They have not read it or they simply do not understand what fascism really is. In fact the book attempts to square the circle between the desire for republican government and the necessity of military force. This is a serious issue and Heinlein's response to it is thoughtful and interesting.
Glory Road (1963) is a picaresque novel that is enormous fun.
Tunnel in the Sky (1955) and Citizen of the Galaxy (1957) are both "juvenile" novels, but I think they both merit consideration for the depth of character and the imagination of their social worlds.
The following are interesting, but lack the literary quality of the previous books.
Beyond This Horizon (first serialized in 1942) is the earliest SF that I know of that tackles genetic engineering. The book was so far ahead of its time that it referred to the Human Genome as being comprised of 48 chromosomes.
The Door into Summer (1957). IIRC the novel's action began in the 1970's and continued to 2000. I read it in the early 1960's.
Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) is kind of a cultural landmark, but as a novel it was as well characterized as Starship Troopers or Glory Road.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
Heh.
The last story of the book was disturbing enough that I blocked-out the rest of it and had forgotten about "The Tale of the Adopted Daughter".
Thanks for reminding me.
The movie had little to do with the book except the alien invasion and some of the political lectures about your duty to society and community service being required for citizenship.
The biggest change allowed the sex and tit shots.
Heinlein was against women in the military. He felt the entire purpose of the military was to protect the child-bearers. While he felt women could be as good or better than men, and should be trained with guns in case we were invaded, men were the expendable sex to be used as the first line of defense against any attack, including governments' attacks on liberty. He had women (and children) fighting in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but that was when their home was invaded, and he graphically described a girl's death to disgust the reader about letting woman die, while saying that liberty was worth even that price.
The movie is fine as a quick action adventure with a little political philosophy. If anybody learned the politics from the movie, then it was worth making. And it serves as an advertisement for the book, which goes into much better detail. The script probably went through a dozen rewriters, and none of them had read the book. I am surprised that the main character was still named Rico.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
...is already scribbling on his account.
F*cking idiot won't even entertain a Hobbit movie.
I werk for a popular copy place with a clownish name, in a city that produces more scipts and manuscripts than it should. About six months ago I chanced to take an order from an individual to remain nameless for copies of a manuscript, no later than 3rd gen, which was FU:TL. Type-written (you know, with a typewriter- it's a sort of springloaded, kinetically driven, direct to print keyboard), with corrections scrawled in RAH's Own Hand; it is a treasure beyond price to me (of course, I could never sell it, nor even publicly admit to it's exsistance). Certainly it is not his best work, but I take great comfort in observing that he made some of the same mistakes that I make now, when he was starting out. I just had to tell someone....
I went to high school in California with his nephew George. He would be about 42 right now.
all adding up to a loonier work of libertarian Luddism than all Ayn Rand's books put together.
It's a great read--I've read it dozens of times--until you think too closely about it.
Now, what's a good Heinlein to start with? I recommend these:
Waldo and Magic, Inc. and The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag (also published as 6 x H), both available in a single volume, The Fantasies of Robert A. Heinlein. These stories show the breadth and humanity of Heinlein's work, from early in his career till the midpoint of 1958. Heinlein's work can be divided into two or four discrete periods, but either way you cut it, up to 1958 is distinctly different from 1959 on. Start with any of these--"Waldo" is a particularly brilliant coming of age story.
Double Star, published in 1958, was the first and best of his four Hugo-winning novels. Light on science but heavy on fiction, short on preaching but long on politics. This was the last sign of Heinlein the liberal. The main plot device has gone from implausible but believable to impossible but a pleasant thought. Since Heinlein was a good writer, it remains enjoyable--but you really can't go wrong with any of the pre-1959 adult books, except maybe the new one.
Among the juveniles, Citizen of the Galaxy, The Star Beast, and Starman Jones stand out. Each is a solidly entertaining novel with enough meat on its bones to satisfy a grown-up reader. Avoid starting with Space Cadet or Rocket Ship Galileo.
The Past Through Tomorrow collects his Future History stories, including the first Lazarus Long book, Methuselah's Children, and it's uniformly wonderful. The Lazarus Long books which start with Time Enough for Love are a separate creature altogether. Time Enough for Love is pretty good, too, if a bit uneven, and more than worth reading--the subsequent Long books are an acquired taste at best. (My beautiful and talented wife disagrees--she likes all the Long books.)
Other books from 1959 on that are very much worth reading:
Stranger in a Strange Land is now a bit underrated but still among Heinlein's strongest works. Get the original version rather than the uncut--I've read this so many times I can nearly mark the uncut version with the edits Heinlein made, and you know what? Almost every restored sentence reads better, but the book as a whole suffers from the extra length. It's moving and optimistic and, unlike some of Heinlein's other preachy books, the preaching in this one is interesting. It's also noteworthy that the fundamentalist Christian fanatics in this book turn out to be the good guys, more or less, and have an absolutely true religion.
Glory Road is Heinlein's sword-and-sorcery novel, and it's a heck of a lot of fun!
Friday suffers from an implausible happy ending, but up to that point it's awfully good. (My beautiful and talented wife likes it best of all his books--did I mention she's a smart woman with good taste?) Friday is the most appealing of Heinlein's heroines, with the possible exception of
Podkayne of Mars, the title character of one of Heinlein's darker novels. The restored ending is better--get a copy with the essays, to which a friend of mi
Government is a technology, so I say:
Libertarianism == Luddism.
Now, as to Mike the computer running odds on the revolution, I have a different take on that.
Mike had a sense of humor--it's what made him human, eh? And the reason his odds didn't make sense (something Panshin, I believe, points out but explains wrongly as Heinlein using the odds as a means of artificially raising the suspense) is that Mike was playing a prank. Those odds running up and down in an irrational manner--it was a practical joke Mike played on his friends.
And a good joke, too--it really kept them hopping, but did no harm in the end.
Heinlein was sometimes chowderheaded in his thinking about race--"Jerry Was A Man" comes to mind--but it was sentimental paternalism at worst and never truly racist. The Star Beast touches on this, as does Tunnel In The Sky, and The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, and Double Star. There is so much explicit anti-racism--xenophilia, really--in his work that his lapses are forgivable.
That book had a hell of a good premise and was set in one of Heinlein's coolest dytopian worlds.
If he'd been in better health, had a better edit job, or not needed the money right then (pick your favorite theory), it'd've been one of Heinlein's best. As it turned out...
Hey! You know what Fritz Leiber said?
Later on in life, Heinlein could have used some editorial guidance. In this case, though, Heinlein was right and the editor was wrong--the original ending was true.
What I believe you are thinking of is the first publication of Podkayne of Mars with both the original ending (first published standalone in Grumbles from the Grave) and the edited ending. When that publication came out, readers were invited to vote on their preferred ending. (This from Nitrosyncretic Press's Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion.)
Eventually, a version came out in paperback where both endings were accompanied by essays about the two endings and which the readers preferred--a good frind of mine wrote one of those!
And there's this little exchange, as the four characters are batting around their lists of twenty favorite story worlds, trying to figure out where they might be going next:
"Did Heinlein get his name in the hat?"
"Four votes, split. Two for his 'Future History', two for 'Stranger in a Strange Land.' So I left him out."
"I didn't vote for 'Stranger' and I'll refrain from embarrassing anyone by asking who did. My God, the things some writers will do for money!"
The attentive reader will note that, shortly thereafter, the characters end up in the 'Future History'. Not long after that, they are drinking with Jubal Harshaw.
How about you foot the bill? I mean, surely you don't want her driving around on unsafe tires, right?
Put up, or shut up.
(I suspect I won't be seeing a check.)
For those that would die defending it, Freedom
has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
Sorry, no one cares about these shitty books, this section should be closed down.
In all these cases, I'm attracted to the lyricism of these works. Tolkein is well known in that regard, even among the "great unwashed", especially now that the film adaptations have become so successful. As for Bradbury, things like the encounter with the old Martians on the sea floor at night, the description of the house attempting to save itself , and the "million year picnic" (all from the Martian Chronicles) just sing with imagery, a delight for the senses -- something to be savored and turned over in the mind, indeed something to be shared with others. I have read those selections, and others, to various members of my family at one time or another, because of the strong mental imagery and wonder involved. There is so much poetry in these books.
As far as Heinlein goes, my all-time favorite story of his is "The Farmer's Daughter" in Time Enough for Love. There is an incredible sadness (expressed eloquently by Heinlein) in spending a lifetime with someone you love and cherish, only to see her waste away of old age and realize that you will survive her by thousands of years. No wonder Lazurus Long was so despondent after living 4000 years, that he was willing to die, rather than continue outliving all his relatives and loves of his life.
Absolutely incredible story telling in those books. Of course, there are warts, and not everyone turns out a masterpiece every time they set pen to paper. But, it was well worth my time to wade through all the mediocre stuff I've read from various authors in the past to discover some of the really truly great gems out there.
I found some additional reviews for this book at this site.