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Linux in the Developing World
Norsemann writes "Peter Spotts of the Christian Science Monitor has some very interesting things to say about the latest wave of Linux adoptions throughout Asia and beyond. He hits on some important points about not only China's role in Open Source but the 'global' role in Open Source... Perhaps the best is still yet to come." The BBC also has a nice story about Brazil using Linux in cybercafes.
It is OSS. When you run your entire operation on MS you're having your data infrastructure being controlled by a foreign government.
OSS is the best thing in the world for those governments who might be a little suspect of U.S. commercial interests.
The other advantage is that OSS helps to close the gap between the haves and the have nots. There are those people that romanticize the developing world and think that bringing technology to them is a bad idea. Well obviously these people have never been to the developing world and the lack of technology in these places helps to keep them in the third world.
Ironically a tremendous number of people in Nepal have email access and the guesthouse I stay in in Kathmandu runs everything on Linux.
The same type of people who built our digital past..
here's a hint, it wasn't megacorp!
megacorps just figure out how to make it for the masses...
I have not RTFA but I would imagine this is about the ever-increasing market share of GNU/Linux.
Now, I am not actually sure we'll see the day when everybody and their mothers will run Linux as we know it.
I somehow think that, in the end, Linux will indeed be everywhere but hidden below some proprietary interfaces... Kinda like BSD-under-Aqua = OSX.
I wish I were wrong but it would still be a nice thing to see both systems coexist this way.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
This is certainly interesting to see that Open Source is being more widely accepted in the developing world. It bring to question, in what manner developers of programs that are not open source will attempt to combat this. Microsoft's recent pricing of Windows OS for only $40 in Thailand is an example of these attempts. Will this attempt by Microsoft really have an impact in Thailand, or is this simply an act of desperation? I wonder what the current impact is of computers running Linux in Thailand?
*
troll blacklist. Please mo
We're seeing usage and adoption here because it's free. On the face of it adoptions like this look good but there are no long term plans to educate or update the software that is being used in many of these scenarios... the reality is that vast chunks of the developing world will be dumped in 2003 with little or no sustainable technology future.
OpenSource makes tons of sense in the "developing" and "cybercafe" world for several reasons. The flexibility in licensing and the diminished need for patching over the dialup lines (speaking of remote locations, of course...some of the best public access to the Internet I've seen is outside the traditional developing world) is a great asset to those on tight budgets. However, it goes further than that. As the non-Western economies tend to have a different standard of living, even inexpensive licenses (compared to our costs) could be cost prohibitive. I have a close relationship with some teachers from Belarus and the piracy there is rampid not because people are necessarily out to steal from "the man," but rather a $50 or $75 dollar copy of Windows XP Pro (and come on, other than NFR copies or those that get on reseller deals...it's never that cheap here) would put the software out of reach for all but the elite. That being said, if you want to following licensing (like in a school), the alternative is clear.
And there is a MAJOR push for Linux on the desktop here at the moment. Here is why:
:P) but this is what you get without an affordable public education system...
Previously businesses and individuals bought their software via low-cost vendors of pirated software. This kept their cost down.
More recently, the Indonesian gov't has been crackind down on said vendors (a good thing IMO). THis is causing people to choose between paying full price for Windows or getting Linux at little or now charge. When you consider that the average worker here makes less than 20% what a worker makes in the US, the equasion is not very ballanced.
So, here comes Linux on the desktop at least here. Unfortunately, I have been less than impressed with the skill of the IT workforce here (at least one network admin I met didn't know what localhost referred to
Anyway, I think that the third world WILL drive Linux on the desktop adoption for some time to come.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
About 6 years back I developed and setup a Cyber Cafe management system that ran 100% off Linux and Open Source tools.
For developing countries like India one of the major advantages of Open Source is the Cost factor and the general commuinity based support avilable for most Open Source platforms. Added to that the fact that things work the way they are supposed to, and you have systems running for well over 60 - 80 days without the need for a reboot / support of any nature. The end result is a winning combination all the way.
The other major advantage of investing in Open Source is that the younger generation ( who are'nt into the commercial aspects of computing as yet ) grow up and learn within a framework that encourages choice and alternatives rather than constricting you into a predesignated thought process.
In things as they stand today, we need this kind of liberty of thought and process.
That's the world that many Asian IT companies and deparments live in.
Just think about that for a minute, and imagine how it would turn your world upside down: People are cheap - servers are expensive.
In this environment, stuff like Linux makes even more sense than it does in "the west".
People like TurboLinux and Red Flag Linux are all over this opportunity here in China and elsewhere in the region.
This article made me wonder what might happen IF an outcome of the SCO action is that the GPL invalidated or crippled in some fashion. Could some or most of the rest of the world continue to honor the GPL, while the US does not - that would lead to some real weirdness. Maybe a lawyer can comment.
the reality is that vast chunks of the developing world will be dumped in 2003 with little or no sustainable technology future.
Bill? Is that you?
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
Venezuela also adopted Open Source in its government offices like a year ago.
I've been using Linux at home since 1995, and enjoyed every moment (even the learning, frustrating ones!); and whenever I can, I try to make my venezuelan friends become aware of GNU/Linux and Free (as in speech) Software.
Back to work!
We were living a dilemma here in Brazil, as our law doesn't recognize a contract written in a language other than Portuguese. On the other hand, the FSF would not recognize any translation of the GPL as official.
But now it does. As of yesterday, this article at creative commons talks about the very first official translation of the GPL into a language
other than English. (Full text of the CC-GPL in Brazillian Portuguese is here.)
The news I've read about it also say that there are some modifications to make the license valid according to brazillian laws, but I had no checked this so far.
-><- no
Let me spell it out for you:
Just like with the oil companies, we will make sure that the third world will remain dependent upon Microsoft.
Those companies who try to switch their governments over to OSS will find themselves on the wrong side of a communications breakdown--much the same way that the mexicans were left with barrels and barrels of oil they could not give away after nationalising their oil fields.
Violently over-throwing the peaceful governments such as peru and installing our own stooges (the way we did with the Shah) who serve M$ interests is also not out of the question either.
After all, what is good for Microsoft, is good for the economy, and we do NOT want to give a bunch of third-worlders even the hope of a leg to stand on.
So, we will keep microsoft in foriegn governments; By Any Means Necessary.
Don't believe me? Go study the history of the oil cartels from 1890-1970 and replace standard oil with Microsoft, and there you go.
...software that runs network computers called "servers"
Finally, an article that challenges me technically.
-t
http://unmoldable.com W:"No one of consequence" I:"I must know" W:"Get used to disappointment"
I'm currently stationed in Somalia in a physician exchange program. While they may not have the most advanced technlogy around, they offer dual-channel ISDN in the capital and dial-up access can be had in most towns.
While piracy is rampant, most legitimate (i.e. with international connections) seem to prefer Linux due to the prohibitive costs of the MS licensing. Of course there may be some issues when exchanging documents, but these issues are minor.
From speaking to some of the IT guys is their disbelief that we in North America still choose to spend so much money when there are low-cost options available. I guess it's why we drive SUVs and stuff our faces in all-you-can-eat buffets.
This is an important development that doesn't get the attention it deserves. Meanwhile, U.S. schools are almost completely dominated by proprietary software -- could it be that in not too long a timespan ( 20 years?) the U.S. will start to become an intellectual ghetto? I mean, the ratio of engineers and CS majors is dropping in this country compared to MBAs/lawyers. Anyway -- here it comes: I for one welcome our new Brazilian street-urchin overlords!
Think about it further....
I have a large number of NCD terminals I bought for my side business. 20 of these run off ONE dual P-III server. now you dont have to use ncd terminals, old Pentium 100 computers work great for this.
now I can have one server act as 20 workstations AND a server. no extra cvosts per workstation, and cince I can use throw away hardware for workstations my costs are even lower. (I got the NCD terminals, a pallet of 144 of them for $20.00 at an auction.) if a terminal fails I throw it away, replace it with another and boot.. nothing to restore or set up again.
this is only possible with linux+OSS. as with windows the same thing would cost many thousands as I would need 2 more servers and 2 licenses per workstation for the OS and apps to do the same thing with the same performance.
I am selling Open source solutions based on "terminals" and linux to businesses here that the windows people can't even compete with. One Machine shop owner absolutely loves the fact that if a PC dies (rare now) nothing has to be done other than swap the workstation and the user continues to work... no call to me for a service call and having that user down for 2-3 hours. I maintain their system in a contract basis, many things I do over ssh from my home.
not only asian companies see this as a benefit, but American businesses are seeing that it's just plain stupid to use microsoft products anymore... It's just too expensive.
>Don't believe me? I will surely believe. I am working in a GNU/Linux consultancy firm in a middle country. Here there were incidents in which US ambassador directly pushed through the government for microsoft solution in the only university here and government ministries. Ofcourse the "order" from US ambassador is "accepted" by the stooges without any questions.
The stripped-down version he referes to is Minix, a version of Unix written for teaching purposes. It was Minix' limitations, and the author's refusal to accept patches removing those limitations, that led to the creation of Linux. Linux had no Minix code in it.
Carousel is a lie!
Now lets have backers of open source demonstrate a better image by writting thank you letters. If he , and his editors, see that this is popular, they are more likely to continue writing favorably about our community.
Think global, act loco
Open your head just a little. The Monitor is a reputable journal.
Think global, act loco
Ah, you mean an oxymoron :-) Like McDonalds Restaurant and Military Intelligence or Microsoft Security?
Stick Men
I hope you are being ironic.
For years the CSM was seen as one of the journalistic paradigms, favorably compared with the NYT and the Washington Post for the quality of her investigative journalism. While it has fallen off over the past 10 years, it is still and excellent news source, and very important, very fair, and exceedingly well written.
He just replied, saying mine was not the first correction he received, and he has asked his editor to run a correction ASAP.
Carousel is a lie!
I am working in a GNU/Linux consultancy firm in a middle country. Here there were incidents in which US ambassador directly pushed through the government for microsoft solution in the only university here and government ministries. Ofcourse the "order" from US ambassador is "accepted" by the stooges without any questions.
;-)
I don't doubt that. However, bear in mind:
There is a HUGE difference between US national strategy regarding oil (NEED...MORE....OIL) and software (want to export more). I am sure that there are times when pressure is brought to bear, but I have a hard time imagining that it will go as far as revolutions, etc. especially when Windows is under so much attack here in the US. And if they do, I would imagine that it would be SCO rather than Microsoft who is pulling the strings
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
You're right. The person who posted the link probably assumed everyone reading Slashdot was smart and open minded, and that there were no bigoted ignoramuses like you.
If there was only SOME way to make you understand what a complete ASS you made of yourself.
hmm?
maybe these things dont matter much in other countries.. i could be wrong though. the gaming industry boasted 17 Billion dollars(how many gamers(PC's?) is this?) this past year and will continue to grow. if linux could somehow get game makers to write for linux then that would be a huge step to the desktop environment. the next step would be to make sure when you buy the game, you pop it in, a window comes up and you click INSTALL and what folder and it installs it and the user doesnt have to do anything more. no downloaded drivers, updating kernels or anything else. but this goes true for software, multimedia and broadband compatibility as dial-up starts to finally diminish.(what other countries have broadband?) i am tech savvy, but i like linux and yes it is powerful. most users are not like us. when they go to wally world to buy a game(even if they arent a gamer) or software, or new memory or a neew video card or whatever, they want to come home, put the hardware or software in and they have to do little,if nothing to get it all installed.
I'm sure the grandparent has heard all this before, and prefers to believe that it is a problem with others, because his own behavior is inherently and unquestioningly spotless.
After all, he has rationality and logic on his side.
to an idiot like me how Microsoft plans to keep their revenues up if they have to dump their prices to compete with OSS?
To me it seems they will have to start looking at new sources of income.
Eliminate OSS through FUD tactics and legislative meneveours.
The situation in some Asian countries runs counter to this article, at least for the mass adoption of open source.
Piracy is rampant and the cost of a Windows installation is only around 50c American. Bandwidth is expensive, so downloading a Linux ISO is also prohibitively expensive, definitely more so than buying a pirate CD off the streets.
Linux distros are pre-pressed and available for sale. However, those distros are usually 3-5 disks (3 for Mandrake,5 for Suse). A Windows install, is the price of 2 disks at most. Everyone has "heard" of Windows, not many have heard of Linux. Therefore, you go with the software that you've heard of, rather than trying out new,esoteric OS and tools. That is why Linux is limited to some corporate servers and hobbyists only.
Which one is wider used ? Windows, of course. Will that change anytime soon ? Only when there is a crackdown on pirated software.
The name of the most secular indian newspaper is "THE HINDU"(www.thehindu.com). Its not the name that counts, but the content.
This is a good point. However, this usage and adoption gets our foot in the door.
Microsoft allowed rampant piracy of Windows in second- and third-world countries for the same reason: getting people used to using the operating system means that 1) people will get comfortable with it and 2) people will be less willing to switch to another alternative.
The fact that it is free is what gets us in the door; the quality is what keeps us in users' minds.
No, no, no !!!
It's Steve.
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
Developers !!!
**Sweat drops going all over the place**
I'm very sceptical about Linux Desktop (for non-corporate use), mainly because of the way linux people look at this - "I develop what I want and need, if you want something else, start coding" and "linux is on the desktop, it's easy, there are no problems, you're stupid and you're lying".
But I'm extremely happy Linux is so eagerly adopted in the developing world.
Looking at it from their position it's easy to see why.
Having to cope with a bit of a learning curve is a small price to pay for being able to work with an environment that
1) costs you next to nothing;
2) treats you like an equal;
3) actively invites you to participate.
Way to go, long live OSS!
btw in light of this I'd say the most important things to do in desktop linux might not be standardization, installers, gui and all that but solid localization schemes and no nonsense support for every language there is out there.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Someone mod up the parent. There is *less* scope for OSS in the third world until either:
1) Action is taken against institutions using pirated software.
2) OSS becomes the dominant software in developed countries.
BTW, I am from Zimbabwe.
Interesting... giving IE away for free (or MediaPlayer) is somehow wrong when they have the smaller market share but giving away Linux/OSS is somehow OK?
The "quality" of OSS in most cases that I've seen is stability, not feature-set. I'm not saying that stability is a bad thing by any means. However, I develop software on both platforms and I've yet to find a debugger/development environment on OSS that lets me do the things I can do using VS.NET and/or do them as efficiently.
As far as other types of applications, the only ones with feature-sets that even come close to what's out there in non-OSS are the ones that are just copies of non-OSS software (Office clones, etc.)
I believe that OSS platforms need some convergence to a standard feature-set as well. When I write something on Linux, for example, I have to choose one of the several sound APIs, for example, to write against. What if that API isn't one that is in "favor" in a few months? What if that API isn't installed when my stuff is being installed? It's really a pretty nasty situation for development in some ways. In the least of the trouble it causes, it requires me to make the end user install something else so that my stuff will run. If I force the end-user to install it on his own, it can turn them off to my software and they won't use it or even install it because it is a hassle to them. Or, I have to invest my time automating that for them when I could be spending that time doing something more useful, like fixing bugs or adding features.
One of the biggest strengths of OSS platforms - the choices you have over what to install - is also one of the biggest weaknesses for software development (and thus bringing more software to the platform). Having a minimum feature-set such as a standard sound API, a standard graphics API, etc. makes it far easier to develop software on the platform.
I don't doubt there is a huge difference between importing oil and exporting software.
However, I can't help but remember the US has invaded, set up puppets, trained and financed insurgents, and who knows what else over Bananas (I dunno, twenty times?) not to mention Gambling and Sugar (ever heard of Cuba?).
What they have is common with oil is commerce, as in commercial interests between US firms and other nations. In that respect, software is certainly not less important than fruit.
I agree, but I don't agree 100%. For example, single CD's such as Knoppix are but one of many options for cheap distribution of CD's. Also, let's-not-take-a-chance-on-any-but-the-top-seller is a sort of manager-think that might not be so prevalent in places that are struggling to establish themselves technologically.
But I agree with what you say about pirating in general and I'll take the point even further. Pirated proprietary cds "compete" quite aggressively with open source everywhere. And yes, I'm talking about the USA and other high-tech nations too.
~==>RocketSHE
Doesn't that answer your question? The rest of your post is flatly contradicted by the articles, education is the Brazilian government's primary goal with its cafes and all governments mentioned intend to roll out Linux on a larger scale. People who could never afford access to computers now have it and governments are adopting OSS. What did you mean by 'win'?
The MS alternative -
What are the plenalties for a country who enforces copyright/patents from it's own country but not from others?
A blog I run for the wealth
You're forgetting that Christians are responsible for much of the science we now have. Examples are many, but here are a few of note:
a l_acade mies/acdscien/own/index_10121999.htm
Historical:
Louis Pasteur, Florence Nightingale, Roger Bacon, Gregor Mendel, Faraday, Kepler, Newton...the list goes on.
Pontifical Academy of the Sciences:
Many of these scientists are leaders in their fields, including Nobel laureates. You should recognize at least a few names on the list of academicians page.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontific
We all know that BSD wouldn't install properly on the laptops used by Al Quada in developing countries.
...In your pants, and I'm beccaninning to HEAR what you say!
I have a large number of NCD terminals I bought for my side business. 20 of these run off ONE dual P-III server. now you dont have to use ncd terminals, old Pentium 100 computers work great for this.
now I can have one server act as 20 workstations AND a server. no extra cvosts per workstation, and cince I can use throw away hardware for workstations my costs are even lower. [...]
this is only possible with linux+OSS.
Wrong. This is absolutely nothing new. Time-shared servers have been around *long*, *long* before Linux and OSS, even before I was born (I'm 35 now). Early computing was this model (big mainframes with many cheap ttys - ever wonder where VT100 terminal emulation came from, for example?). You put all your compute type resources in one expensive node and then hang cheap terminals off it for folks to input into the server. From there, folks started making minis and eventually the personal computer. The model you talk about here is just the wheel on its second revolution around. Also, I've seen 100s of cheap terminals hang off a machine that had less than 1/100th of the processing power of your PIII box. Nothing new here.
as with windows the same thing would cost many thousands as I would need 2 more servers and 2 licenses per workstation for the OS and apps to do the same thing with the same performance.
Not that I necessarily disagree with you here, but given the rest of your post, I'd like to see the numbers and report that you made that prove this assertion. What I do disagree with is someone just blabing out garbage like this as fact when there is no evidence to support it.
Developing countries recognize that their economic progress depends on their mastery of information technologies. Open-source software, with its global, free-wheeling, "stone soup" development approach, allows these countries to potentially shave 10 to 15 years off the time it would take them to nurture their own IT sectors at home.
Try typing "miserable failure" in Google
but... uh... seems the commies like linux. That was a joke... go ahead, mod me down :)
Please do not use the terms "Third World" use "Under development countries" or "developing coutries". "Third World" it is not recognized anymore and it is agressive.
MS' agenda is to dominate markets by locking customers into an asymmetric "tech providor vs tech consumer" relationship.
In short, technological hegemony -- much like the hegemonistic agenda certain elements in the US military-industrial complex are often accused of.
OSS' agenda, on the other hand, is to empower individuals, and individual nations, to make their own technological choices. So the UN advocates OSS in its WSIS, a move that is vigorously opposed by only one nation: the US.
The pattern is pretty clear.
Now if the DOD could only ban OSS in its own organisations. But they can't. The MITRE study demonstrated that the DOD and associated organisations' research, infrastructure and security efforts would themselves grind to a halt if they banned OSS from their own operations.
Technological knowledge due to the proliferation of OSS is, increasingly, the key to both autonomy and power for a nation, and an individual.So, the efforts of the US to deny OSS to the rest of the world, and (outside of it's engines of power) to it's own people are in line with the agenda of hegemony the US is are often accused of. It's similar to the consolidation of land and informational assets in the hands of a small group of increasingly powerful people in developing nations, whose actions result in the people not being able to grow their own food or publish their own views and information--just look at what the US did to Latin America throughout the 20th century.
I predict that the export of US-sanctioned "democracy" will be accompanied by the export of US-developed MS-based easily-hacked voting systems which will only result in the fraudulent election of officials (e.g. GWB) who will promote the same kind of economic and technological dependency on the US, while real technological democracy, in the form of publicly validated, secure and properly audited OSS voter registration systems, voter information systems, and the voting systems themselves will be denigrated as "substandard and not valid" by the same people that brought you the massacre at el Mozotol (and fired Ray Bonnert, the correspondent to the NY Times who reported it).
I wonder if the School of the Americas has a new course, "Skewing Election Results Without Getting Caught (much) 101: Diebolt Systems Under The Hood."
"Microsoft's foreign price reductions will bite them in the ass. American companies and individuals will start asking why they're forced to pay $100 + per seat while those outside Microsoft's native land get away with less than half that. "
So when's this argument going to work against the RIAA/MPAA? I'm still waiting.
http://web.idrc.ca/en ev-41815-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html
This HAS to be the best. It doesn't mention in the article, but I am sure I read these were linux powered PCs!
Bored? http://www.dodgybloke.co.uk
Some like Windows, some like Mac,
And I think that's OK
But if they ask a license fee then
I just walk away
They can beg and they can plead
Accuse of source code theft
But the best license for me
Is GNU copyleft, cause they use...
Linux in the developing world
And maybe they develop in Perl
You know that they use Linux in the developing world
And they like to develop in Perl
Li. Nux. In the developing world.
Li. Nux. In the developing world.
Li. Nux. In the developing world.
Li. Nux. In the developing world.