Detoxing With Magnets for Fun and Profit

Ridgelift writes "Wired has an article on a new way to remove toxins from the bloodstream. The Argonne National Laboratory have designed nanoparticles which 'identify, and then latch onto, target molecules. The nanoparticles are injected into the bloodstream, where they circulate through the body, picking up their target toxins as they go. Once they have made their rounds, all that's needed to remove the particles from the body are a magnet housed in a handheld unit and a small, dual-channel shunt inserted into an arm or leg artery.'"

Comments

X2 a Reality

[Ridgelift]

Magneto: Something's different, today... [Holds up a hand, and the guard freezes] Too much iron in your blood!

Re:X2 a Reality

[Clever Pun]

I was just thinking that - if you have an overabundance of iron in your diet, would this system pull out your red blood cells and just pump the empty plasma back into you? (In case you didn't know, iron is used by your body largely to make Hemoglobin, which is what red blood cells are made from. Other primary uses are to make Myoglobin, and within enzyme systems.)

Re:X2 a Reality

[geeveees]

And Hemoglobin contains a Fe atom so that it can bind with O2, this allows red blood cells to transport a lot more oxygen. So the downside to this would be the same as CO-poisoning (the Fe binds with the CO, not with O. This binding lasts a long time, you die...).

Re:X2 a Reality

[Carnildo]

The iron in hemoglobin isn't magnetic, so this won't have any more effect on blood cells than the "improve your circulation" magnets do.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Anonymous Coward]

And too much causes clotting

There is alot more to oxygen transfer than just the hemo count.
There is also teh S-curve for oxygen to hemo affinity.

Its not that simple.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Clever Pun]

Good to know. Whaddabout the stores that your body keeps? I don't really know much about them - my information comes from my Nutritional Science course, not biology ;)

Re:X2 a Reality

[jci]

I'm sure another filter could be used before the magnet to ensure that only their particles are pulled out. This shows that a red blood cell is 10um(10^-6), while the particle size is somewhere between 100 and 5000 nm(10^-9m), or .1 to 5um.
The article mentioned not being too worried about getting 100% of the particles out anyway, so I think there is some wiggle room with another filter.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Anonymous Coward]

The iron is not magnetic (or at least only very slightly) while in hemoglobin.

Informative? Mod it informative when you know what the hell you're talking about.

Re:X2 a Reality

[phungus]

That was most definitely one of the coolest scenes I've seen in a movie in a good while. You could just feel Magnetos' malice. Very inventive.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Roger_Wilco]

Well, that's sort of right.

De-oxygenated hemoglobin isn't magnetic, but oxygenated hemoglobic is paramagnetic. That's why fMRI works. fMRI is a clever technique using the same MRI technology used for imaging, but tuned to see changes in blood oxygen concentration. It's used to estimate brain activity, and also to detect poor circulation in the heart.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Sgt York]

First, it would take more force than is exerted by most megnetic fields to remove iron from heme. And the mass of the hemoglobin is too great to be moved by the same force.

Second, if you have an overabundance of iron in your diet, you just poop more iron. Unlike most other nutrients, your body only absorbs what iron it needs. Iron is a dangerous thing to have too much of, for reasons unrelated to magnetism. The best way to get more iron in your blood is to move to a high altitude.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Clever Pun]

so then, the children who die from ingesting iron supplements that are far too concentrated for them...just get too much, too fast? (not arguing, i have a final on this in just over a week - i should probably figure this out :)

Re:X2 a Reality

[jcp797]

actually, oxygenated hemoglobin is diamagnetic.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Sgt York]

MRI does not look for iron. It's based on certain isotopes and how they behave in a magnetic and RF fields, mostly hydrogen and oxygen.

The short of it is that atoms spin on an axis, and if you put atoms in a strong magnetic field, their spin axes will mostly line up. Adding a strong RF pulse will "tip" them in one direction (like tipping a spinning top) and they will precess while going back to alignment with the field. This precession can be picked up as a seperate RF emission, and the nature of the emission from each atom will be affected by what atoms are around it. It's the same concept as NMR, just that medical MRI looks for the specific signature of water, finding differences in tissue density.

Re:X2 a Reality

[jcp797]

yes, nuclear magnetic resonance imaging does not look for iron but he said fMRI

Re:X2 a Reality

[Sgt York]

Probably is a too much too fast thing, but I'm no clinician, I'm a basic scientist. I can't say anything about that from knowledge.

But I can talk out of my ass, so here goes. The reason free iron is dangerous is that it is required by bacteria; in their natural environment, it's often a limiting reagent in growth. Maybe the influx of iron induces a growth spurt in the gut flora. Or, maybe it's a chemical or osmotic thing, where the iron reduces or oxidizes the intestinal lining, or osmotically damages it, causing sepsis or some other massive inflammatory reaction. Like I said, though...just talking out of my ass there.

And, after that flatulence, here's the Google result. It is a chemical thing, free radical formation by the absorbtion regulation process.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Sgt York]

Dammit. Missed the "f". Thanks for pointing it out.

Sorry about that. I retract the whole post, along with the things I said about Roger_Wilco's relationship with Arnold the pig, but didn't removed in the final draft of my post.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Timbatron]

Not entirely true. MRI is actually based on the differences in the speed at which the atoms precess when the field is turned off (which varies according to tissue density). The RF emission doesnt "tip" them.

Re:X2 a Reality

[k98sven]

De-oxygenated hemoglobin isn't magnetic, but oxygenated hemoglobic is paramagnetic.

Let's clarify this for all the non chemist/physicist-readers here..
Simplified, there are three forms of magnetism, ferromagnetism, paramagnetism and diamagnetism.

Ferromagnetism is what we ususally mean when we speak of something being 'magnetic'.
The other two are mainly molecular phenomena, and are very weak.

Molecular oxygen is paramagnetic. This doesn't mean there is more air near your refrigerator. At least not under normal circumstances.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Guppy06]

"Too much iron in your blood!"

Just so long as what the Nevians did in Triplanetary doesn't become a reality, I'm OK.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Rob Simpson]

IIRC, the body becomes more efficient in absorbing iron if body stores are low, and less if high... also, more iron is eliminated through the urine and lost from shed skin if iron stores are high. The problem with supplements is what you said - they might take in amounts of excess iron that are orders of magnitude greater than they could ever get from any food. Note that the actual percentage of nonheme iron (iron tablets, vegetables) absorbed is ~5%, while heme iron (from meat and animal products) is ~34%.

Anyway, since I already checked my notes for that last bit, here's a bit from a toxicology book:

"There are essentially five stages of iron poisoning:

Stage I (30 min to 6 hours): GI irritation, primarily due to the corrosive effect of iron. Drowsiness, epigastric pain, GI bleeding, hypotention, and nausea/vomiting may occur. Hyperglycemia, leukocytosis, or metabolic acidosis may be present (due to vasodilation).
Stage II: (6 to 24 hours): A latent period of symptom quiescence during which symptomatic improvement may be noted. In severe poisonings, there may be not latent period.
Stage III (6 to 48 hours): Metabolic and systemic derangement occur with cardiovascular collapse, coagulopathy (inhibition of thrombin and fibrinogen), coma, and seizures. Pulmonary edema may occur due to cardiac failure.
Stage IV (2 to 7 days): Hepatotoxicity (jaundice) and coagulopathy occur. Metabolic acidosis is present, and renal insufficiency may occur.
Stage V (1 to 8 weeks): Primarily delated GI complications, including gastric/duodenal fibrosis resulting in obstructive pattern. Achlorhydria may develop."

Er, that was longer to type than I thought. Oh, well. There's a lot of terminology that I can translate if you want.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Rob Simpson]

Eh, I was curious, so I looked up the details of the mechanism in Dipiro...

The toxicity of acute iron poisoning is due to local effects on GI mucosa, and systemic effects due to excessive iron in the body. Iron is irritating to the gastric and duodenal mucosa, which may result in hemorrage and occasionally perforations. Once absorbed, iron is taken up by tissues, particularly the liver, and acts as a mitochondrial poison. It occasionally causes hepatic injury. Iron may significantly inhibit aerobic glycolysis and perturb the electron transport system (that means it screws up the burning of glucose). Further, iron may shnt electrons away from the electron transport system, thereby reducing the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation (ditto). These biochemical factors, along with the cardiovascular effects of iron, lead to metabolic acidosis. The pathogenesis of shock is not well understood but may include developmen of hypovolemia and lactic acidosis, release of endogenous vasodilators, and direct vasodepressant effects of iron and ferritin on the circulation (see fig 9-8, a really cool flow chart that probably makes more sense than this but would take forever to format properly).

Oh, and there's also iron overload, a condition caused by the (relatively slow) deposition of iron in organs which can result due to frequent transfusions (eg, needed by patients with thalassemia), which is prevented/treated with iron chelating agents.

Re:X2 a Reality

[mmortal03]

It doesn't matter whether the iron in hemoglobin is magnetic or not, Magneto was just cracking a joke. In actuality, if you watch the movie, Magneto was simply extracting what Mystique had injected into the guy, not the iron in his hemoglobin. So, I don't understand what the point in your post was...

Re:X2 a Reality

[juushin]

atoms do not spin on axes. you are mistaking atoms for nuclei - it is nuclei that give rise to MRI phenomenon.

Re:X2 a Reality

[juushin]

they actually do "tip" - tip usually refers to inducing an electronic state from lower to higher energy. when a nuclei is excited from a lower state to a higher state using RF, the nuclei subsequently experiences decay in which relaxation occurs back to the lower energy state and RF is emitted at a different frequency.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Eraser_]

I would assume the f in fMRI is really a reference to Fe(rrous)MRI. On the periodic table, that would make it an Iron MRI. Not too familiar with it myself, but it doesn't seem that far fetched.

Re:X2 a Reality

[TedZ]

The 'f' in fMRI stands for 'functional.'

Ted

Now all they..

[panxerox]

need is a car mounted version so I can plug in saturday night after a round at the bars. hmm mabee they could shunt the removed "products" directly to my carborator.. Profit !

Re:Now all they..

[Anonymous Coward]

> my carborator

They still make those?

Re:Now all they..

[Anonymous Coward]

Uncle Sam wont let it pass though, as they make a ton of money on DUI's. I cant see the senators letting this "taxation" go away. In MN last year, we had over 200,000 DUI's (More than the population of Minneapolis!). Multiply this by $1500 (lucky average), and you'll see that it is not a small amount of bling-bling that our polititions can wear. I too thought the same thing, but then realized what kind of $$ is at stake. Not a snowballs chance in hell. In fact, we are now in the process of bringing the DUI limit down to .08 :-). I got stopped a while ago and blew a .096, the cop towed the car and gave me a careless driving ticket even though I was only stopped for a light that was out (and was below the legal limit). I still dont understand that one, but I'm not a cop, so I have no idea that the law was like that. Nonetheless, it still counts as a DUI on my insurance record (again, lobbying the senators from the insurance companies).

Money talks, bullshit (citizen) walks.

Re:Now all they..

[Anonymous Coward]

and blew a .096,

There's your problem. Next time, blow the cop a 69.

Re:Now all they..

[modecx]

Yeah, that's funny to say and all, and it would be insightful otherwise....

But... Your politicans are probably responsible for a proportionally large number of those DUIs. :D

Re:Now all they..

[cybercuzco]

Or use it to make more beer! genius!

Re:Now all they..

[Anonymous Coward]

If you really think the cost of patrolling for, towing, arresting, booking, processing, arraigning, charging, prosecuting, incarcerating, paroling, probationing, and keeping records on DUIs costs less than your stated average of $1500 per incident, I think you are probably mistaken. Also, you are off by almost 50% in your population figure for the city of Minneapolis. Finally, politicians don't have some sort of profit sharing plan where any excess tax revenues that they don't spend are distributed to them personally. And for the most part, governments at all levels in the US seem to be operating with deficits... yes, they manage to borrow to cover costs, but the result is things like you find in Minneapolis, where approx. 10% of the city's tax revenues go to pay off debts. This just pushes costs into the future, but usually at a premium.

Re:Now all they..

[twiddlingbits]

If you live in Massachusetts and your name is Kennedy you don't get a DUI or anything even after the car turns into a submarine and you kill the passenger.Elected officials should be held to a HIGHER standard, but they never will be as long as they bring home the Pork.

Re:Now all they..

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should stop driving like an asshole and get a cab.

Re:Now all they..

[LetterJ]

I don't know. The Representative from South Dakota was convicted of manslaughter after hitting someone on a motorcycle today and faces 10 years in prison.

Re:Now all they..

[twiddlingbits]

Hadn't heard the outcome there. I doubt he'll do any hard time, probably appeal too. I heard he used some sort of medical defense (fainting spells??). Having traveled in the West where off the main highway traffic signs are rarely obeyed I can see how the accident happened, but it doesn't make it OK. He should have looked.

Re:Now all they..

[LetterJ]

His defence was that he had a diabetic reaction that caused him to not be in control. The thing is, I don't think he *can* appeal as he would have to have evidence that wasn't presented at the first trial. Given how flimsy his initial defence was, if he had other evidence, he'd have presented it. He may not serve time, but even a conviction of someone who served as a popular governor for years and as a Congressional Representative is a boost in confidence in the system.

What about...

[mgcsinc]

The article mentions simple, nice uses such as detoxing or removing poisons from the bloodstream, but what prevents a similar method from being designed (all be it you would have to design particles corresponding to these to be in the bloodstream) to remove viral infections from the blood? That seems like where the real interest in this technology would be!

Re:What about...

[KrispyKringle]

I'm no doctor, but I'd make a couple of guesses:

It seems like if the effectiveness weren't 100%, it may not matter for detox, since it may get the toxin levels below tolerance, but for a virus, it may simply meet as soon as you stop, the virus spreads again.

It may be far harder to make things to bond to the virus. The particles being bonded to may have well known chemical properties, but it seems like if it were that simple to make things bond to viruses, we'd have little problem treating them, magnet or no.

Just a guess, though. Anyone here actually know about this stuff? :P

Re:What about...

[KrispyKringle]

But there are a few comments about treating auto-immune diseases and anthrax. So maybe it's useful as an intermediary treatment for some easily-targeted particles, but doesn't completely remove an infection?

Re:What about...

[KiwiEngineer]

I, too had similar thoughts, but in order to not appear redundant in my post I decided to find out the particle size of a typical virus.

I found this at drgreene.com

Viruses range in size from 20 to 250 nanometers

The average bacterium is 1,000 nanometers long.

If a bacterium were my size, a typical virus particle would look like a tiny mouse-robot. If an average virus were my size, a bacterium would be the size of a dinosaur over ten stories tall.

It could be a scale thing taht means this first generation of magnetic detox devices are too large to pick up virus particles. i don't know what sort of % you would need to remove of a viral infection compared to a bacterial infection to ensure a recovery by the casualty, but suspect it would be a lot higher for a virus.

Another problem could lie in the changing nature of viruses, making them a harder target to select for when designing your magnetised particles.

It would be a wonderful application if it works.

Re:What about...

[Eskarel]

Well the body can produce things which bond to specific viruses those things are called anti-bodies and are relatively effective for most diseases spread by viruses(excluding those which kill too fast or attack the immune system(HIV)) but you're probably right it wouldn't be all that effective and there are probably better ways to do it.

The thing I would be interested to see is a cancer treatment based on this idea. Not to actually cure cancer since I don't think that's possible with this method but to pick up the cancerous cells in the bloodstream and prevent them from spreading cancer to other parts of the body. A lot of times it's when the cancers have metastecized(no idea of spelling) to other parts of the body that you get the real problems. Not to mention it might reduce the chances of cancer recurring.

Re:What about...

[drayzel]

One of the problems that our natural immune system has with viruses, and I assume this new system would have the same issue, is that they "reproduce" inside our own cells and are often encapsulated with that cells own lipid layer before being released, in other words they chemicaly 'look' like a normal cell and are not affected by our immune system.

Another problem this technique would have is that the real nasty viruses tend to merge their DNA into our DNA and can become latent for many years. Chicken pox often does this in nerve cells and when conditions are prime (stress, disease etc.) the DNA kicks in and you get shingles.


~Z

Re:What about...

[Carnildo]

It can catch cancer cells in the bloodstream, but it won't catch those spreading by the lymph system.

And for future reference, it's "metastasized".

Re:What about...

[Sgt York]

The clearance issue wouldn't be that big of a deal. All you need to do is help out the immune system some, clear a large portion of the viral particles and your system can fight off the rest after the load has dropped. For example, many antibiotics only inhibit the growth of bacteria, they don't actually kill them. This allows the immune system to "catch up" with the bugs in the body.

It may be more difficult to make it bind specifically to the virus, but I suppose you could use an antibody fragment for specificity.

Re:What about...

[pyros]

That's all fine and dandy until the virus mutates into some uber-efficient cyborg, hacking its systems and improving co-operation with all the other cyborg virus cells in your body. Finally broadcasting straight into your ear "resistance is futile..." and, what's that? Oh nano-particles, not nano-bots? Bummer.

Re:What about...

[RLW]

It's the level of virus in your blood that makes you sick. Once you have contracted a virus your body never completely gets rid of every single invader. A healthy body however can keep them in check. If this device can be employed to work against viruses then it may also prove to extend the lives of those who have really nasty viruses that elude the bodies defenses like AIDs, Hepatitis C, and if used in time maybe even Ebola. By bringing down the level of infection then it'll give the body more time to build up it's own defenses: it is a race to bring the levels down before significant damage occurs to organs and other tissues. Or with anthrax infections it's not the bacterium itself that kills but specifically it's the toxin that the bacteria produces as a waste product which is lethal. This process if viable for anthrax toxin could have give patients more time to develop their own antibodies to fight the actual pathogen.

Re:What about...

[Sgt York]

The article also discusses the removal of things like drugs. The scale there is similar; the size of a virus is to the size of a drug molecule as the size of a bacterium is to the size of a virus (Hey! I'm the SAT!).

I would imagine these particles would have more difficulty with larger particles. The magnetic attraction would have to overcome intertia.

Re:What about...

[mec]

[I'm only about one or two Scientific American articles ahead of you, so let's hope that a real molecular biology geek shows up].

This is what antibodies are for. You need to make an antibody that has a very high specific affinity for the virus and a lower affinity for friendly cells. (Nature does this by generating large numbers of antibodies at random, then filtering out antibodies that show reactivity with your own cells. All the rest are let loose in the body).

Then you attach the magnetized tag on the other end of the antibody.

The antibody attaches to the virus in a death grip, and then the little black box can filter out the magnetized tag.

You don't have to remove 100% of the virus load to cure somebody. You just have to get a lot of the virus so that the body's natural immune system can fight the rest.

Indeed, other groups have tried the antibody idea with different payloads, such as a radioactive atom bonded onto the antibody. The antibody attaches to the virus or the cancer cell, then the radioactive atom decays right there next to the bad cell.

Re:What about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I seem to remember reading something about using magnets to target drug delivery to a tumor/specific location in the body. The drug was encapsulated into microspheres that were affected by magnetic fields I think. Also, I have seen a few papers about tracking the location of 5-fluorouracil (an antitumor drug) in the body with F19 NMR spectroscopy. This is useful to see for instance how much of your drug is actually getting to the site you want it to get to. Drug targetting is a pretty big deal since a lot of the bad side effects of drugs come from the fact that they hit the sites you want, as well as those you don't (steroids for instance).

Re:What about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's your body's immune system's response to the invaders that usually makes you sick.

Fever, rashes, mucous overload, runny noses, pustules, etc are all the body's way of getting rid of these things.

Re:What about...

[StringBlade]

I would be leary about dragging cancerous cells out of the body using magnets unless that magnetic field was strong enough and it could be shown that none of the particles are left behind along the "exit route". If the magnet were to drop any of the cancer cells after relocating them from some other area you may actually be spreading the cancer much faster than it would have done itself.

Re:What about...

[menacing_cheese]

The problem with this is that the mostly likely candidate for coating the magnetic beads with would be antibodies raised against the virus. While this type of treatment might be beneficial in the short term, passive transfer of antibodies is often accompanied by a strong immunological response by the host immune system to the transfered antibodies. So you might get one or two treatments before the patients immune system negated any effect that the beads would have. Not to mention that a strong activation of the immune system in this manner can actually be much more harmful than many viruses.

Re:What about...

[cybercuzco]

Well if you were in a position to use this technology, you could kill them much more easily, or you could just remove enough blood to kill them then inject it all back in to remove suspicioun, the only evidence is one needle mark, but no poison or other substance.

Re:What about...

[k98sven]

It could be a scale thing taht means this first generation of magnetic detox devices are too large to pick up virus particles.

No, not really.. even if the nanoparticle is rather large, the binding-site is much smaller, on the molecular scale (1 nm or so). So that's not the problem.

The problem is how to 'latch on' to the bactera/viruses, and how to do so with specificity . (don't want to remove stuff that we need!)

That's the difficult part, and what most of conventional drug design is all about. Drugs usually work by "latching-on" to a virus, or a part of a bacteria, and stop it working. The immune systems antibodies do the same.

So basically, this can't really do much that can't be done with conventional drugs. Probably less, since it's restricted to the bloodstream.

But maybe they'll find uses for it in medicine.

Re:What about...

[Anonymous Coward]

This doesn't pull anything into the bloodstream that isn't already there. The particles bind to the toxin or whatever and as the blood flows through the portable device it pulls the particles back out. The system relys on the body's own bloodflow to bring the particles to the removal point. Since none of this is forced, the toxin would already be able to reaching that point in your body on it's own.

Re:What about...

[djupedal]

You just have to get a lot of the virus so that the body's natural immune system can fight the rest.

Take out too much and you don't leave enough to trigger an immune response....leave too much and you've wasted your time.

Re:What about...

[UpnAtom]

Providing the immune system is still functioning, and we are kept alive with no permanent damage, what level of viral load can we cope with?

Re: cancer, I'm guessing, once the antibody tags the cancer cell, that cell's days are numbered?

I've heard of treatments where acancerous cell is injected into a rabbit, antibodies are extracted and then introduced back into the human patient. These antibodies attach to the tumour, the immune system attacks it immediately and the tumour disappears overnight.

Re:What about...

[hollo32]

I'm no doctor, but I'd make a couple of guesses:

Well I am a doctor, but it's not really my field and I've had a few drinks. I'll have a go anyway.

There are two problems with this technique for dealing with viruses like HIV. One is that viruses can only reproduce inside human cells and spend most of their time there. None of these nanoparticles are going to be able to get inside the cells so they are not going to get to where the virus is. Instead there is the much trickier task of detecting cells which have the virus inside.

The other problem is that the HIV virus in particular appears to mutate very rapidly. There is one part of the outside of the virus capsule which has to stay the same as it binds strongly to a particular protein on the outside of the cells it is going to infect in order to attach to them. This region which stays the same is flanked by areas that change rapidly from generation to generation to make it difficult for the body to recognise the virus.

Re:What about...

[Bugmaster]

Wait, but if you could generate these antibodies in bulk on a whim, wouldn't you be all set anyway ? Just injecting them into the bloodstream (assuming that you made them externally for some reason) will already give you a massive immune boost.

Finally!

[Theatetus]

Something to do with all these spare small, dual-channel arterial shunts I have lying around...

Re:Finally!

[Talinom]

Something to do with all these spare small, dual-channel arterial shunts I have lying around...

Yeah, but what about my current generation quad-pumped arterial shunts. How long until they are obsolete?

No longer quack medicine

[Carnildo]

Finally, an actual medical benefit from magnets!

Re:No longer quack medicine

[MikeXpop]

1. Use Magnets.
2. Medical Benefit and Fun.
3. ?
4. Profit.

Re:No longer quack medicine

[Saeger]

I often muse that if I was evil enough to fleece gullible people of their money, that I'd open an herbal/magnetic/psychic/everything superstore and name it PLACEBO, INC.

With every purchase, my ido^H^H^Hcustomers would recieve a FREE scientific study of the placebo and/or real harmful effects they can expect.

--

Re:No longer quack medicine

[NegativeK]

Finally, an actual medical benefit from magnets!

*Cough-MRI-cough.*

I know, I know..

magnets!!

[monadicIO]

Hey, Alex Chiu was right after all!!

Re:magnets!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if everyone knows who Alex Chiu He claims that his little magnet rings that he wears on his fingers (or elsewhere) are an immortatility device.

Re:magnets!!

[DrXym]

Chiu is a quack, as are all sellers of magna-therapy bracelets, sole inliners etc. They wouldn't know science, double blind testing, the placebo effect or reality for that matter if it bit them on the ass.

The sad thing is they'll use stories like this to hawk their snake oil.

Re:magnets!!

[morganjharvey]

Yeah, my favorite thing about Alex Chiu is that if you pay him for his immortality device, he offers a 90 day, money back gaurantee.

I've always wondered how one gauges the effectiveness of an immortality device in only 90 days...

Re:magnets!!

[Anonymous Coward]

You should check out this interview, quack or not the guy is pretty entertaining.

Re:magnets!!

[Have Blue]

Obviously, you try to kill yourself. If you succeed, then you get your money back.

Re:magnets!!

[nelsonal]

If you die in 90 days, you get your money back, what a great deal.

MRI

[Evil Adrian]

I wonder how long you wouldn't be allowed to get an MRI for... I'd imagine those little beasties would tear you apart if you got one!

Re:MRI

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

Remember the scene from X2 where Magneto pulled the iron out of the bloodstream of the guard?

Re:MRI

[Rude Turnip]

Ah, hell, I'll bite...I'm pretty sure Mystique shoved a bunch of BB's up the guard's bum, because that's what they looked like in the bathroom stall. Otherwise, why wouldn't he have used the iron from people's blood before to escape?

Re:MRI

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

It has been a little while since I saw the movie, but it looked to me like some kind of liquid iron solution. (that's probably all it could have been)

There might not have been enough for him to do anything with. With what Mystique put into the guard, there was still only enough to make three little pellets.

Re:MRI

[Anonymous Coward]

"Otherwise, why wouldn't he have used the iron from people's blood before to escape?"

Because that iron is in hemoglobin, and therefore not magnetic.

Re:MRI

[voidware]

While I do not propose to be an expert on NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, the name was changed with the advent of medical applications because nuclear is a scary word) or magnetism in general, I doubt this would do much harm if it were ever attempted because the viscosity and size of the particles in question. Most likely, they will just line up with the field lines. I bet they'd show up nicely though. While there are significant barriers to this, I bet they could be excellent vectors for marking and destroying tumor cells when used with NMR.

Re:MRI

[mariox19]

As I understand it, hospitals are reluctant to give some construction workers MRI's as the average worker is sure to have accumulated tiny metal shards in his or her eyes, shards that go unnoticed until someone turns on the juice.

The MRI question for all of this is a good one.

Re:MRI

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm.... NMR is still used, it justs refers to a different thing, namely a form of spectroscopy popular with organic chemists. They called it MRI because it produces a nice picture (or image).

Re:MRI

[AnotherBlackHat]

As I understand it, hospitals are reluctant to give some construction workers MRI's as the average worker is sure to have accumulated tiny metal shards in his or her eyes, shards that go unnoticed until someone turns on the juice.

Couldn't they use a sensitive metal detector to check for this sort of thing?

-- this is not a .sig

Re:MRI

[hollo32]

When I have ordered MRI scans I have always had to ask whether patients have used metal grinding machinery and could have metal particles around their eyes. I think the radiology department did standard xrays of the head to check for any shards (which would show up nice and bright on xray) before doing an MRI scan.

Particles of the size described would be unlikely to feel enough force to cause damage in even a strong magnetic field. I don't think this would be a problem, but I don't have the physics to do the maths myself.

Re:MRI

[Anonymous Coward]

"As I understand it, hospitals are reluctant to give some construction workers MRI's as the average worker is sure to have accumulated tiny metal shards in his or her eyes, shards that go unnoticed until someone turns on the juice."

"The juice" is not a magnet. The magnet of an MRI stays on all the time (they have to recalibrate the whole machine if they turn it off, which can take hours and hours). The only thing that "turns on" is the radio waves, and they are too weak to have much effect on metal shavings.

COOL

[Anonymous Coward]

This would be great if it could remove alcohol from your bloodstream. Go out, get shit-faced, then just detox yourself and drive home.

Re:COOL

[Trigun]

really then, what's the point?

I'd rather pay for a cab then jam an arterial shunt into my leg that could bleed me dry in under an hour. Couple that with the fact that I would be drunk whilst doing said leg jamming, and I'd choose to have my address and a cab company's dispatch number tatooed to my forearm.

But you go spend your money to get not drunk. I'll be the one in the back of the cab with the ugly girl who's going to get lucky, puking my guts out.. You have your fun... Uhh,

How much does this procedure cost?

Re:COOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Please sir, can you provide me with erotic stories about puking on your partner while having sex? thank you

Re:COOL

[pontifier]

Here's a comic for you.
http://www.sexylosers.com/089.html
enjoy.

Oh great...

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

Now those people selling the magnetic bracelets and insoles are going to be using this as 'proof' that their useless peices of crap really work.

Re:Oh great...

[sewagemaster]

yea! hail to ALEX CHIU!! his eternal life rings is going to save us all! mmmmmmmmm rings..........

Re:Oh great...

[Anonymous Coward]

I really fail to see anything funny about this..

Really stupid idea

[Anonymous Coward]

The body would attack those things because they are foreign, and even if they are inert then you have the problem of them getting stuck in strange places, like your brain.

Wouldn't want to get an MRI after either, half your body would probably be torn apart.

Re:Really stupid idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Try getting an MRI on the UK NHS, its a bloody miricle - they just laugh at you even if youre suffering a spinal injury - 1 year for neurologist, just go to India, you will get one no problem.

UK Docs = the shitz.

Yes im pissed off.

Re:Really stupid idea

[perrin5]

um. no.

just no, dude.

1) It says in the article that they are specifically coated to prevent immune response.

2) They can't pass the blood brain barrier, because they're too big.

3) The whole thing is supposed to break down in like 5 hours, at which point the iron can be incorporated into your body.

Introducing Chaser 2!

[numbski]

Take Chaser 2 shortly after you begin drinking, and drink all night long!

The next morning, just insert the handy-dandy magetized needle, and lookie! Hangover-over!

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[Planesdragon]

The next morning, just insert the handy-dandy magetized needle, and lookie! Hangover-over!

Not quite.

Hangovers are caused by your body being dehydrated. To fix the worst of the effect, drink lots of water (preferably the night before) or, if you happen to be an EMT, stick some saline solution right into your blood.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[Organized Konfusion]

hangovers are caused by dehydration, not alchol.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[Anonymous Coward]

And we all no the best fix for a hangover is greasy eggs, pancakes and a milkshake.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[Lafe]

Hangovers are caused by your body being dehydrated. To fix the worst of the effect, drink lots of water (preferably the night before) or, if you happen to be an EMT, stick some saline solution right into your blood.

Not quite.

Hangovers are caused by your body producing acetaldehyde as it metabolizes alcohol. Dehydration does play a role, but it is a supporting role.

A good description of what happens, and good advice on what to do about it can be found here.

Alternatively, you can pick up the RU-21 pill designed by the KGB to keep their agents from getting hangovers.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[numbski]

So keying the nanoparticals to acetaldehyde would work?

<cartman>schweet</cartman>

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[TwistedGreen]

...or, if you happen to be an EMT, stick some saline solution right into your blood.

Hope they don't do that while drunk...

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[Rorschach1]

We had this discussion in EMT class. At least here, EMT's don't get to do IVs. So the EMT hangover fix is lots of high-flow O2. The paramedic hangover fix, on the other hand, involves saline, dextrose, and some sort of vitamin complex I think, plus high-flow O2.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[spectecjr]

We had this discussion in EMT class. At least here, EMT's don't get to do IVs. So the EMT hangover fix is lots of high-flow O2. The paramedic hangover fix, on the other hand, involves saline, dextrose, and some sort of vitamin complex I think, plus high-flow O2.


Something else that works rather well -- which may never be sold in the puritanical US -- is:

"Beecham's" Resolve

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[twiddlingbits]

Thats just Tylenol (acetaminophen = Paracetamol) and Alka-Seltzer (BiCarb of Sodium) in the same package with a few extras. The amount of Potassium BiCarb in may be an issue but nothing else is harmful. If you are on a low Sodium or low Potassium diet this stuff is not for you. I bet that Beechmans stuff tastes awful.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[spectecjr]

Believe me, when you have a hangover, the last thing you worry about is the taste.

Actually, it's quite pleasant.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like Alka-Seltzer.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[spectecjr]

Looks like Alka-Seltzer.

I suggest you look more closely.

Alka-Seltzer: Aspirin 325mg, Citric Acid 1000mg, Sodium Bicarbonate 1916mg.

Beecham's Resolve:
Paracetamol 1000mg, Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) 30mg, Sodium bicarbonate 808mg, Citric acid 1185mg, Sodium carbonate (anhydrous) 153mg, Potassium bicarbonate 715mg

Three of the more important ones on there are Vitamin C, Paracetamol and Potassium Bicarbonate.

Potassium bicarb to balance out the sodium bicarb and keep your electrolyte levels where they should be. Vitamin C, because it's highly depleted by drinking, and paracetamol, which is much better than aspirin for those kinds of headaches.

Paracetamol (acetaminophen) is also better for your stomach.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[twiddlingbits]

Wow, tastes good AND cures hangovers? I guess I'll have to give up my "hair of the dog" cure! :) I wonder if we could import this stuff into the USA in small quantities for personal use only. If they let Stacker-2 sell that nasty crap this stuff shouldnt be an issue.

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[spectecjr]

You can probably actually make up a good workalike by mixing gatorade with one alka-seltzer tab and a couple of tylenol. Shouldn't taste too bad :)

Although it might be a lot of work if you do have a hangover at the time...

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[jafuser]

Don't do this too often. Your liver is already unhappy with you as it is for drinking. Tylenol will not make it any happier. =)

(Don't anthropomorphize your body organs--they hate it when you do that)

cool stuff

[kendoka]

I hella want it - I want to be nanotized! =)

Re:Iron

[Wuss912]

does it pull out your blood when you touch a magnet?
no....
then i guess there is no problem...

Just to be a little prophetic here

[Raul654]

I heard a saying: The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

If you think about it, that's amazingly true. At the begining of the 20th century, Think about all we discovered - the atom bomb, computers, television, etc. Contrast that with our treatment of disease, which is rudementary at best. Just wait until genetic therapy become available, or disease attacking bacteriophages, or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh brave new world... www.oryxandcrake.com

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[Liselle]

...or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.

Sounds a little bit too much like pigoons to me. It seems with every leap forward in bioengineering, we're getting closer to that despressing future-world we're always reading about in dystopic novels.

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[poot_rootbeer]

Just wait until genetic therapy become available, or disease attacking bacteriophages, or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.

If that's the case, it's going to be a damned shame if Conservative-sponsored legislation makes all these biomedical discoveries illegal in the United States. A lot of human suffering will continue, which could have been avoided had certain people of influence not been frightened by what they don't understand.

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[kendoka]

I hope so, but we've been saying biotech was going to be the next big thing since the '70s... Not that I think it won't, but so far it's been slow-coming... FDA or no...

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[CGP314]

Depressing dystopian future? Sounds like someone needs a soma holliday!

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[Liselle]

Hug me till you drug me, honey;
Kiss me till I'm in a coma:
Hug me, honey, snuggly bunny;
Love's as good as soma.

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[Hentai]

If that's the case, it's going to be a damned shame if Conservative-sponsored legislation makes all these biomedical discoveries illegal in the United States.

Heh. No, like everything atomic, it'll be illegal for CITIZENS of the United States - the military and the government will still get to play with all the nasty applications that they use to justify banning it for the private sector.

Re:Iron

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, iron has blood (hemoglobin). However, that iron is surrounded by a lipid cell wall, the nanomagnets would have their iron exposed. A weak magnet would only pick up the exposed iron.

Why can't you just drink....

[Asprin]

magnetic water?


HA-HAHAHAHAHA HOHOHOHO HEE!

My wife actually knows someone that drinks 'magnetic water' to remove various unnamed 'toxins' from her body. Weird.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[RobertB-DC]

My wife actually knows someone that drinks 'magnetic water' to remove various unnamed 'toxins' from her body. Weird.

Well, water does have magnetic properties... IIRC, it's a combination of H+ and OH- ions. Of course, since they come in pairs, the effect is neutralized, but at some level the water *is* "magnetic".

It could be worse. Her friend could have lived in the days of Crazy Water. In Mineral Wells, Texas, the local water had a more direct "cleansing" effect. The water's strength was directly measurable by the distance the "patient" could walk up the boardwalk to the nearby hilltop before making a mad dash back to the Crazy Water Hotel's facilities.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[Asprin]

It's been a few years since I had to think about this, but I think that's an electric dipole moment, not a magnetic moment you're thinking of.

As I remember it, the 'V' shaped arrangement (H-O-H) of the atoms in the H2O molecule result in a slight misalignment of the electron clouds of the atoms, causing a small electric dipole moment capable of bonding other nearby similarly configured molecules into chains. It's responsible for the hydrogen bonding that gives water its viscosity.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[Horny Smurf]

Water is polar, not magnetic. It has a V shape, with the +Hydrogen sticking out like antennas from the -Oxygen.

When it cools down and freezes, it forms donut-like rings with a hollow center. That's why ice expands and floats, whereas normal atoms/molecules contract when they cool (due to reduced molecular motion).

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[Zoop]

How about magnetic milk?

Well, anyway, in Ukraine, USAID sponsored a project at a Democratic Senator's insistance that used the same process to decontaminate radioactive milk from the Chernobyl area. No shit. It evolved from technology to decontaminate water, and the problem was that the polymers that bound the bonding molecule and the magnetic molecule would degrade in milk. It also bound with lots of other things, not just the radioactive part, because milk is chemically complex compared to water and a straight application of the water technology wouldn't work.

Oh, and once they processed the milk sufficiently to get it decontaminated, it cost 6 to 12 times as much as a gallon of imported milk.

Obivously, they've been working on this technology and hopefully the one "entreprenuer" isn't out there trying to apply this to everything under the sun. Fortunately that Senator has retired.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[gregmac]

I work at a company that installs water treatment systems. Not too long ago, one of our customers came back to us saying that someone (from a company that does insturmentation and automation) was telling him about "magentic softeners", and he thought they were a great idea, and much better than the large tanks we were proposing to put in, espessially since they did this without adding ant salt to the water.

It just so happened that we had a file on these "magnetic softeners". According to the brochure, they work by "changing the angle between the hydrogen atoms" or some such nonsense. We had a report written by a local professor that basically went in depth debunking every claim that these things said they could do, and concluded that it was effectively a box that cost a lot of money and did absolutely nothing.

After reading it, he completely changed his mind.. But this is just another example of what people try to do to trick others by using mysterious, misunderstood forces like magentism, electricity, and anything that with a name that ends with '-o-tron'.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[Asprin]

According to Alton Brown ("Good Eats"), milk is the most complex food we have.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[Asprin]

Changing the *angle* between the hydrogen atoms?!?!

...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH---HA-HAHAHAH AHAHAHAH!


By the way, Quackwatch and Junk Science are great places to get info for "enlightening the unclean", so to speak.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[S.Lemmon]

espessially since they did this without adding ant salt to the water.

I just want to know how you get the salt out of the little critters to begin with!? Still, I can see why someone might prefer ant salt free water...

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[Graff]

the 'V' shaped arrangement (H-O-H) of the atoms in the H2O molecule result in a slight misalignment of the electron clouds of the atoms, causing a small electric dipole moment capable of bonding other nearby similarly configured molecules into chains.

Hydrogen bonding and the dipole moment of a molecule are two separate phenomena.

Hydrogen bonding has to do with the electron affinity of the atom a hydrogen atom is bonded to. When hydrogen is bonded to a small, electronegative atom, especially fluorine, oxygen, or nitrogen, the electronegative atom withdraws the electrons from the hydrogen atom. This causes the hydrogen to have a slightly positive charge while the other atom has a slightly negative charge. Since these atoms are small this results in a quite high charge density. Since positive and negative charges attract, if the positive on one molecule comes near a negative on another molecule they will attract strongly and will form something similar to a bond, but without electron sharing. Mix a lot of these molecules together and the substance that results will have a higher boiling point, increased surface tension, etc because the molecules are holding on to each other more tightly.

Dipole moment works along similar lines but has to do with the overall shape of a molecule. If you have a molecule where the charge is distributed asymmetrically (more negative on one side than the other) then the molecule will have a dipole moment. In water this does happen because of the V-shape - the oxygen at the apex of the V-shape draws the electrons away from the hydrogens at the tips of the V-shape causing the molecule to have a negative side and a positive side. However a molecule such as carbon dioxide is linear, it looks like O=C=O. The oxygens at each end are slightly negative and the carbon is slightly positive but the molecule has virtually no dipole moment because the charges are symmetrical.

So you can have molecules that have hydrogen bonding but little dipole moment (NH3 - ammonia), molecules that have a dipole moment but no hydrogen bonding (CH3Cl - chloromethane), molecules that have both (H2O - water), and molecules that have neither (CH3 - methane).

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[anothy]

and, incidentally, this H-O-H alignment is also what makes water the only thing that expands when it freezes. the crystallization process forces the molecules to lock into a shape that prevents them from flowing around each other.

Tiny little buzzkills

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, a drug-free school zone with teeth. Just say no! Or not. We'll get you either way.

That would explain...

[Anonymous Coward]

...why my tinfoil hat was sucked into my ear after my doctors appointment.

Small arterial shunt changed WHILE YOU WAIT

[karmaflux]

So is this research sponsored by Jiffy Lube?

"Remember, get your oil and your small arterial shunt changed every three months or three thousand miles."

Re:Small arterial shunt changed WHILE YOU WAIT

[Anonymous Coward]

>"Remember, get your oil and your small arterial shunt changed every three months or three thousand miles."

Shouldn't that be

Remember, get your nanospores and your small arterial shunt changed every three months or two hundred burgers.

Re:Iron

[Anonymous Coward]

Take your skin off and try it.

DARPA redeemed

[RobertB-DC]

At the end of the article was some interesting information:
The research is sponsored by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and the U.S. Department of Energy.

Perhaps this will help DARPA regain some of its cachet after the embarassingly stupid gaffe by Terror Bookie John Poindexter. Got to take the bad with the good, I guess... it's nice to be reminded that the Internet isn't all DARPA ever helped get off the ground.

Re:DARPA redeemed

[RobertB-DC]

Surely Al Gore will try to claim credit for it, if it ever suceeds.

Yeah, I think this Internet thing is going to go the way of CB Radio any day now.

(Why do I keep replying to AC's?)

Why wait?

[jimcooncat]

"Kaminski said Food and Drug Administration trials will start in five years." Why do we have to wait five years? We need open source drug development. Yeah, it's dangerous, but so is rocketry.

Re:Why wait?

[Sgt York]

FDA trials will begin in 5 years. That's for human testing. These will probably be perfected in little furry guys first (mice, rats), then move up to big furry guys (monkeys), then to big fur-less guys (us).

Re:Why wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

The fourth leading cause of death in the states is adverse reactions from *properly* administered drugs. That jumps to third when you include improperly administered drugs.

Just because something looks like a miracle cure doesn't mean that it is, or that there are no conditions to look out for, or whatever. The last thing the FDA needs to do is become *more* lax in its controls.

Drug developement isn't software developement. Open source drug developement? What a laugh.

Re:Why wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fur-less? Ha! Obviously you haven't met me.

Instead of deoderant I use love my carpet.

freak'n wookie.

Re:Why wait?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exists Already. ...for a certain type of drugs anyway. ;)

So, we're injecting nanoparticles now, eh

[Raul654]

How long until we get the full borg suit? (And for the record, I call dibbs on 7 of 9)

Re:So, we're injecting nanoparticles now, eh

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're that desperate for horseface, you can have her.

Don't be fooled by the silicone boobies, she's a true mirror-cracker.

Re:So, we're injecting nanoparticles now, eh

[Anonymous Coward]

>(And for the record, I call dibbs on 7 of 9)

Sex is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.

Re:So, we're injecting nanoparticles now, eh

[HarveyBirdman]

(And for the record, I call dibbs on 7 of 9)

Sorry, she already called dibs on Rick Berman, or was it Piller she was dating? In either case, it proves there is no God in this Universe.

So if that's the case

[mcc]

I heard a saying: The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

Re:So if that's the case

[Anonymous Coward]

Dammit, you just made me shit my pants.

Re:So if that's the case

[Carnildo]

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

I don't want to know.

Re:So if that's the case

[espressojim]

Speaking as a molecular biologist / bioinformatics guy...

How 'bout "lab on a chip"? I'd prefer a sequencer on a chip, so I can tell exactly what base you have at your 3 billion positions. Let me do that to 100,000 people of various ethnicities and diseases, and I'll give you back a bucket full of cures.

I don't know if there's going to be a single technology that is like the atom bomb, because the technology to generate data for genetic studies is ramping up at a level similar to Moore's law. There's fierce competition to develope the fastest ways to determine what your genetic sequence looks like (we do it a base at a time at targeted locations now - single base genotyping). While the scale that data can be collected on has grown dramatically, there hasn't been any fantastic breakthroughts - or should I say that people are making breakthroughs all the time?

50 years ago, there wasn't much we could do. Now we can sequence our own genes. Or build our own genes from scratch. Sequence an animal in MONTHS (they aren't less complex than humans, we're just better at in now than a few years ago.) We can look at the expression of protiens or RNA in your cells. We're slowly determining the structure of protiens. We're learning basic facts about how genetic networks can be constructed.

There will be no single bullet, just a constant grinding away at mysteries. There will be plenty of technology to assist, but it will still be up to the brightest of us to figure out the best way to use it.

-Jim

Re:So if that's the case

[Have Blue]

That huge fat guy from Meaning of Life?

Re:So if that's the case

[JoshWurzel]

The parent answered that question already: genetic therapy. GATTACA here we come!

Re:So if that's the case

[Anonymous Coward]

An incurable virus bomb?

Re:So if that's the case

[Anonymous Coward]

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

Anna Nicole.

But now I'd have to say whatever it was that she took to lose all that weight.

Re:So if that's the case

[ctrl-alt-elite]

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

Whatever it is, it will probably be something none of us could think up (except maybe the Time Cube guy) in our wildest dreams. At the turn of the century, no one could have predicted what would happen 45 years down the line and I think the same holds true today, especially with the rate that innovation has increased since the 1900s.

Re:So if that's the case

[imaginate]

Nanotech.

That, or the Singularity

Re:So if that's the case

[Saeger]

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

I don't want to know.

I'm going to tell you anyway:

It will be an engineered plague - part bio, part nanotech - which seeks out and gruesomely kills any disadvantaged human without an artificial immune system.

Just hope that the good guys infest the planet with a "smart active shield" before the bad guys let loose.

--

Re:So if that's the case

[canajin56]

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

A genetically engineered virus, designed to kill anybody with a specific genotype. Say, everybody with red hair, or all midgets, or oh, I don't know, everybody who is Chinese, Irish, German, Arab, whatever you want. Or maybe just one specific person, or maybe his extended family, too. Sounds pretty bad, no? Who would dream of such a thing? Here is a quote from a group, who outlined JUST such a bioligical super weapon. .

"...advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."

Politically useful...
You can read the whole report Here. It's on page 60 (72 as they are numbered in the PDF) It doesn't list the authors in the actual PDF, but a few contributors are: Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and Cheney.

Re:So if that's the case

[the_consumer]

I'm a red-headed Chinese/Irish/German/Arab midget, you insensitive clod!

But seriously, that is a disturbing and frightening document.

Re:Iron

[Anonymous Coward]

I did. Nothing happened.

Great news!

[teamhasnoi]

Now they can cure Jake 2.0, and we won't have to watch that crap anymore!

BTW - Jake, if you're reading this, that doctor chick totally has the hots for you, dude...

Re:Great news!

[anothy]

there is, of course, another cure for having to watch Jake 2.0...

Fast-Forward 10 Years

[johnthorensen]

December 9, 2013

Drug Abusers Use Nanotechnology to Duck Routine Screening Tests
It seems that a technology poised to replace dialysis and other blood-purifying procedures has been hijacked to thwart detection of illegal substances in the bloodstream. Using magnetic nanoparticles, drug abusers can pull every last trace of an illegal substance from their system before submitting to the test.

"I first found about this from a friend in L.A.," says black marketeer Hans Gruber. "We are right now mixing cocktails to strip barbituates, THC, amphetamines, you name it. It's going to give a big boost to the illegal drug industry - people don't have to worry about being caught at work anymore".

On the other side of the issue, security analysts believe that surprise screening tests are the solution to this new development. Informing a candidate that they will be required to submit to a test immediately will help catch some of the would-be "nano-cheaters".

"Yeah, you could do surprise tests...or I could just offer a nanostripper with every drug purchase, to be run immediately after the customer comes down off their high." Such a practice still wouldn't let people go to work while intoxicated, but would keep them from getting picked up Monday morning for their Saturday night indescrecions.

It is unknown just how soon these "nanostrippers" will be readily available on the black market, but given the ease with which they can be synthesized, it is expected that production methods similar to the "meth labs" of the '00s could be employed. Even more interesting is the fact that the molecules are only regarded as Class C Nanoproducts under the Nanotechnology Protection Act of 2018, so very little punishment could be currently handed out for their synthesis and/or possession.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[johnthorensen]

oops..that Nanotechnology Protection Act should have been passed in the year 2008 - sorry, got my dates mixed up :)

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[drinkypoo]

The problem with nanostrippers is that you need a very high-power microscope to see them grinding on their carbon nanotube pole.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[poot_rootbeer]

Even more interesting is the fact that the molecules are only regarded as Class C Nanoproducts under the Nanotechnology Protection Act of 2018

Even MORE more interesting is how this article is dated 2013, but makes reference to a law passed five years later.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[High Hat]

December 9, 2013
[...]
are only regarded as Class C Nanoproducts under the Nanotechnology Protection Act of 2018, [...]

Way cool, that means we'll have time machines sometime in the next 10 years...!

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[johnthorensen]

Read the very first reply to parent. I made a note that I got my dates cornfused - should have read 2008 instead of 2018.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[TwistedGreen]

10 years? Not quite.

It's December 8th. You're one day off.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you got a bit ahead of yourself there: the molecules are only regarded as Class C Nanoproducts under the Nanotechnology Protection Act of 2018.

I thought it was 2013?

Otherwise, great post.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[BigRedFish]

December 10, 2013
part II in a series

Corporate Managers Confounded by Nanotechnology's Defeat of Drug Testing
The effect of nano-detox on corporate America has prompted uncertainty in HR departments across the USA.

"I'm confused by it," said Project Manager Mark Greene. "It used to be, I knew what was expected of me. Promote guys who dress like me, hire women I consider f--kable. If anyone fails random urinalysis, fire them."

Now, I don't know what to do," he continued. "If the drug tests don't work, how am I supposed to know whether my employees are doing their jobs adequately? I might have to... what's the word, it starts with T, the, that... THINK. That's it. I'd have to think of a way to keep track of what my employees are doing at work. That's not the job of a manager as I understand it, and they sure didn't teach us to think in Business School. I was hired because I look good in a suit."

Some business analysts have suggested that the impact to the corporate bottom line could be huge.

"Let's face it," said Joanna Goldstein, of the market analysis firm Goldstein & Meyers, "This could add a lot to the cost of middle and upper level management."

"It already costs almost $10 million a year to put someone in that management chair," she continued. "If that person has to also be able to track ongoing corporate projects under his control, plus think of a way to determine which employees are performing other than by what they like to do on the week-end, it could add a lot to the cost of executive talent."

"Without that litmus test, management will have to pay attention, be realistic, and exercise some critical thought. Good luck finding an MBA with those skills, and expect it to be expensive if you do."

Ed Warren, a senior manager at computer maker HardenSoft, adopted another idea during a recent three-martini meeting with senior execs: ban use of the nanotech devices by employees entirely.

"You can tell where the arterial shunt was inserted for a few days afterward; we might just start looking for that telltale bruise," he said, between lines of cocaine. "Maybe a few employees with legitimate health problems will fall through the cracks, but that's a small price to pay for me to avoid having to pay attention to what goes on in this office, or, God forbid, what's that word that starts with T? Think?"

"Of course, management is exempt," he said with a smile, wiping the powder from his nose. "I'm off to get nano-detoxed tomorrow, but right now I have to go fire anyone who smoked a joint within the last month. I always enjoy a little bump to help me feel powerful before I do that."

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[Casca]

Well, this is for the bloodstream, so it wouldn't do much for urine tests. Also, isn't THC stored in fatty tissues, and released over time? If so, that would make this next to useless for that purpose.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[Soul Brother #1]

Oh, I'll show you a carbon nanotube pole...

...oh, wait. Shit.

-W

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[nelsonal]

The article assumed that readers would be familiar with the 2006 development of time machines, and revocing of the prohibition of ex post facto laws in Section 9 of Article 1 of the Constitution.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[slashnull]

I would like to point out that Hans Gruber (the bad guy from Die Hard) is dead, as is his brother (the bad guy from Die Hard 2). You'll have no luck trying to convince me you were referring to his equally-as-evil twin.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[Anonymous Coward]

There ARE other time zones on this planet, you know.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[Anonymous Coward]

Dupe!

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[Buck2]

I passed this on.

Quote.

Nice work.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[jafuser]

It makes you wonder, if drug tests continue to fail to keep up with the ways that athletes are able to hide the performance enhancing "supplements" they take, how long will it be until sports organizations (ie the Olympics) just say "bugger it" and give up on testing?

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[insanecarbonbasedlif]

"I first found about this from a friend in L.A.," says black marketeer Hans Gruber. "We are right now mixing cocktails to strip barbituates, THC, amphetamines, you name it. It's going to give a big boost to the illegal drug industry - people don't have to worry about being caught at work anymore".

Isn't he the guy that composed Silent Night? I suppose he could have been revived from the grave, and taken up a career as an imaginary high tech crime lord...

fun in airports?

[wo1verin3]

I wonder if there is enough concentration that this would set off airport metal detectors... :security guy bob: Sir, please step through the metal detector again :security guy joe: I don't understand it, he's completely naked and we've done a cavity search!

Re:fun in airports?

[TwistedGreen]

I have stainless steel sutures in me, so I don't think situations like that are new to them.

Though at least my sutures can be localized...

Re:fun in airports?

[Moekandu]

"Bring out the gimp."

I can't wait!

[pair-a-noyd]

Man, I have to know, when will Billy Mays begin hawking the DIY at home kit?

Nothing like sticking a dual-channel shunt into your own leg artery..

And if Billy is selling it I *know* it's A-OK !

Re:Iron

[CJ Hooknose]

ornil wrote: Admittedly, I know nothing about this [...] Isn't there iron in blood as well? Would that cause problems?

From the article: "Small crystals of magnetite are added to the particles..." . Magnetite (Fe3O4) is magnetic because the 2 Fe+3 ions arranged with the Fe+2 ion in that specific configuration make for "magnetic domains", regions in the magnetite crystals where all the unpaired electrons are spinning the same way[0]. The iron in the hemoglobin in your blood is either Fe+2 or +3, no magnetic domains can exist because the hemoglobin molecules are floating around in solution and don't line up at all--no ferromagnetism. Even if you had a crystal of pure hemoglobin, it'd be paramagnetic (very weakly magnetic, like pure oxygen) or diamagnetic (no magnetic effects at all). You can see this for yourself by trying to pick up a drop of your own blood with a really strong horseshoe magnet.

[0] Well, not really, but the real explanation involves a lot of math and I can't remember it anyway.

Practical application

[Hoi Polloi]

"Hi, Argonne National Lab Gift Store? Do you have bioactive nanoparticles keyed to latch onto THC? I have a drug test coming up tomorrow."

Re:Practical application

[mindriot]

Nice idea, but keep in mind that THC can be traced at other places in your body than just in your blood. Hair comes to mind, for instance. So for now, this technology, if it ever becomes practical, won't save you from the consequences of a drug test...

Re:Practical application

[Obiwan Kenobi]

Let me speak for an astounding number of IT people when I say...

"FUCK!"

Re:Practical application

[Dhalka226]

True, but I've never had to submit a hair sample for a drug test.

Oh, RTA...

[Snootch]

The body would attack those things because they are foreign

Read the article, my friend - they're coated so they don't get recognised as antigens. Nor will they get stuck (they took care over this one, designed wuith reference to pore sizes), and in any case are biodegradable.

too little too late

[colmore]

Oh sure, but where was this technology Sunday morning when I had the worst goddamn hangover of my life?

Thanks for NOTHING, science.

Re:too little too late

[slashnull]

Haven't seen a Simpsons reference in a bit.

Moe: "What has science ever done for us anyway? TV off!"

TV: *click*

Yes, yet another way

[cblguy]

To defeat Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids...

Magnetite occurs naturally in the body, so ...

[Ranazar]

According to http://www.rfsafe.com/research/rf_radiation/therma l_hazards/intro.htm:

Magnetite is found in certain bacteria and in the cells of many animals, including human beings.

Does this mean that this treatment would also pull out any bacteria in the body that contains magnetite?

Re:Magnetite occurs naturally in the body, so ...

[Roguelazer]

Yep. And as an added benefit, it'd remove all your cells. Like blood cells, and skin cells, and brain cells!

Re:Magnetite occurs naturally in the body, so ...

[Chuk]

Does this mean that this treatment would also pull out any bacteria in the body that contains magnetite?

You are unlikely to have any of that kind of bacteria actually in your body. Here is a quick little discussion of them.

A small shunt?

[JLSigman]

Uh-huh... not until they can make a shunt that has a 0% chance of getting infected will you see one of those things permanently in me.

You've GOT to be kidding!

[Thud457]

Asprin & Gatorade before you pass out.
You'll be fresh as a daisy in the morning!

Military cloning & genetic engineering apps

[Anonymous Coward]

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

Perhaps it will be cloning and genetic engineering as applied to military goals.

I predict we will scare ourselves applying cloning and engineering to humans, and eventually have to invent and impose some new ethics.

Of course, cloning and engineering other species doesn't seem to scare us as much.

No way, man!

[dataplaya]

I've (had the displeasure to have) read Michael Crichton's "Prey." Poorly written and probably far-fetched, but compelling in the notion that we're blind to all of the consequences of developing technologies. This is true of science in general, but it sure gets the paranoia going. Noting the spat of fiction based on humans inadvertantly engineering our own distruction (i.e. The Matrix,) are the risks always worth the discoveries????

Re:No way, man!

[sbirnie]

Agreed - I just finished that book today and I can't believe it's a bestseller.

Re:No way, man!

[nelsonal]

I liked the ending summary. Think of all the shortcuts taken by startups that are still in use today and were never thought through (because they never imagined being so wildly successful). Compare any UNIX varient's security (developed by large established companies for use in a networked environment) with Windows (developed by a startup for home users that wasn't going to be networked) its cheaper and used everywhere. Now realize which companies are likely to drive innovation in biotech, startups who will base their existance on their product suceeding in only a few years, so the early investors can flip the company in an IPO. They won't have time to think about what their products will be doing in 5 or 10 years.

Re:No way, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not as bad as Crichton's movie Timeline though. That's a stinker!

Sadly

[taniwha]

the magnet-quack people will probably start quoting this as a wonderfull scientific study that proves what they've been saying for years .... and most people wont read past the headlines ....

Alcohol

[tds67]

Great way to get sober before you leave the bar!

Yippie, kay-ay..

[Anonymous Coward]

motherfucker.

PS. For the dim moderators who will lunge at modding this down, Hans Gruber was the main bad guy from Die Hard. For the very dim moderators, so is the line 'Yippie kay-ay, motherfucker'.

PSPS. Hans Gruber rocked.

Well, I RTAed and I have similar questions.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

The body would attack those things because they are foreign

Read the article, my friend - they're coated so they don't get recognised as antigens. Nor will they get stuck (they took care over this one, designed wuith reference to pore sizes), and in any case are biodegradable.

I read it too, and I see a couple problems with the claims.

First: While the propylene glycol coating will protect the basic particle (for a while), the active antibodies that cause it to latch onto targets have to stick out. If some of the body's own antibodies latch onto those, it ends up "decorated". This will almost certainly trigger a bunch of attacks on it - which could cause damage to normal tissues nearby even if they don't result in defeating the glycol coat and starting the disassembly or macrophage-consumption of the particle.

The side-effect attack could result in anaphylactic shock if it is large enough, so using it to clean out circulating antibodies may turn out to be probelematic - requiring careful control of dosage and time-before-cleanout.

Even if this scenario is true in practice, however, the technique might still be useful against auto-immune diseases, where the antibodies in question will already be triggering as much collateral-damage as if they were attacking the particles. If it turns out not to be an issue, lots of other severe allergies may be susceptable to treatment by this technique.

Second: The sizing of the particles prevents their being trapped in capilaries or dumped by kidneys. But if the thing they bind to happens to be anchored to the inside of a blood-vessel they still get stuck. This could produce clots blocking the vessel if there's a lot of anchored target in one place. Even if there isn't, the particle gets stuck until the glycol wears off and the biodegradable core breaks down, after which you're left with:
- Antibodies decorating the target. (This may actually be good, but will probably result in blood vessel inflamation which is not.)
- Magnetite particles in the blood stream. (Hard, sharp, reactive, iron oxide particles.) Same cleanup problem as the small number that didn't get cleaned out in the non-anchored case, but much larger. Iron ions are not nice.

Life Extension

[Michael Crutcher]

It would seem to me that another use of this technology would be dramatic life extension. I envision scientists creating replacement cells and attaching them to the nanoparticles. Then the particles go through the blood stream attaching to damaged cells. The attachment to a damaged cell causes a replacement cell attached to the nanoparticle to be released. Then the nanoparticles and the damaged cells they are attached to are removed from the blood stream.

I guess it's pretty sci-fi, but it seems like all the pieces need for it to work are already here or will be soon. Will remaining young at some time be much like an oil change for your car? Would you go to the doctors office and have a certain percentage of your cells replaced?

MIchael Criton's Prey

[Denver_80203]

If you read it... need I say more?

MACS - Magnetic Cell Separation

[Devil's BSD]

This is similar to a system I use at my laboratory called MACS (http://www.miltenyibiotec.com/index.php?site=home ). It uses magnetic beads conjugated to antibodies to select and filter out cells. Judging by how expensive MACS is compared to complement depletion, though, this could be very expensive because of the amount of cells and toxins and blood.

Re:Iron

[StringBlade]

You can see this for yourself by trying to pick up a drop of your own blood with a really strong horseshoe magnet.

Or you can realize this is the case if you've ever had an MRI. If hemoglobin were magnetic we'd have some serious messes to clean up each time that thing were turned on!

Probably a manipulated virus..

[msimm]

someone will use one or accidentally leak one at some point.

Re:Probably a manipulated virus..

[Anonymous Coward]

This is already happening.

Re:I see...

[Anonymous Coward]

and in just a minute, you're going to wish you would've posted that as AC. see you at -1!

Virii are not stable.

[perrin5]

The problem with trying to design an antibody, or treatment for any virus is that there is not a constant target for them. They change over time.

This is also why you have to get a new flu shot (vaccine) every year. It's not that the old ones stopped working, it's that the flu has changed enough from its previous form for your body to not be able to fight it with the tools it has at hand.

The time it would take to design a molecule that would bind specifically enough to the particular virus in your body and produce enough to be effective is currently much longer than the body's immune response.

Bacterium, and chemical targets are pretty much static, though, and you could mass produce the antibodies.

I still think this idea is fundamentally flawed for anything but the most serious of dangers. Honestly, I don't see much value in having a shunt installed in my arm for anything less serious than a life threatening illness.

"Toxins"=scam

[benwaggoner]

I have to say, this article is the exception that proves Waggoner's eleventh law: "Any reference to 'toxins' as a generic class is in the service to someone selling a bogus pseudo-medical treatment."

Re:Iron

[Anonymous Coward]

he said take off your skin, not skin it back.

Mod point and comment?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck with that.

I wonder..

[patrick.whitlock]

I wonder when this will be in an ad in High Times?

remove?

[Lord_Dweomer]

"all that's needed to remove the particles from the body are a magnet housed in a handheld unit and a small, dual-channel shunt inserted into an arm or leg artery.'"

Oh....so tto remove the toxins all that you need to do is get a handheld magnet unit and stab a straw into your arm or leg artery to suck all the toxins out through. This will go over real well with consumers! I'm looking to invest, whats their ticker symbol?!

Calling it Java is the real mistake

[jeremyhu]

An IT manager, who asked not to be named, said he could not understand why a user would trade one proprietary desktop for another.

"I personally keep Java off my computer because it crashes the system," he said. "If Sun had the interests of the customer in mind, then the Sun desktop would be written in C and donated to Linux. Sun is no better than Microsoft."

Uhm... it IS written in C. Perhaps Sun's problem is in putting the word 'Java' in the name and confusing "IT Manager"s

Re:Calling it Java is the real mistake

[HarryCallahan]

Yeah we don't wanna confuse the IT Managers do we, perhaps some magnets would help them.

Re:Calling it Java is the real mistake

[piobair]

Personally, I just call it Ishmael.

Re:Calling it Java is the real mistake

[jeremyhu]

weird... I did this reply in response to the Sun Java Desktop post... heh...

Alex Chiu's OTHER recipe

[Anonymous Coward]

DRINK RITALIN!

Maybe next century...

[freeze128]

The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

I think you're off by one. The 21st century is the century of lawyers and patents. Maybe the 22nd century can be of biology and medicine.

disturbing

[drp]

Am I the only person freaked out by the concept of a 'shunt' into a major artery? Is this something permanently installed? I'm getting visions of the horrible Harkkonnen heart-plugs from the David Lynch version of Dune....

"picking up target toxins..."

[ramk13]

Has no one else noticed that this approach is:
a) fairly invasive? To treat a lot of blood in a short amount of time you need a pretty good flow rate. Which means you need a big hole in a big artery. I don't like big holes in my major arteries, but that's just me. I suppose if you were fitted with some sort of interface/valve it would be fine, but if you started bleeding through that hole later you'd be in serious trouble.

b) very specific? You have to make an antibody/couple for *every* molebule you want to catch.

I think this is more hype than something practical, at least for the time being. It might be different in a while after they've developed it (and done lots and lots more human trials.)

Re:"picking up target toxins..."

[kwoff]

> I think this is more hype than something
> practical, at least for the time being. It might
> be different in a while after they've developed it > (and done lots and lots more human trials.)

The article mentions on page two that it has only
been done on rats and won't go into FDA testing
for five years.

Re:"picking up target toxins..."

[fain0v]

In reply to your comment
a) it is invasive, but not much more than a needle prick. If the technology works, I could see it becoming sort of an outpatient surgery.

b) It is fairly easy these days to make antibodies for specific molecules. Most diseases already have antibodies that you can order. The methods for developing antibodies is already out there, and the methods for purifying them are getting better and better. I should know, I do this for a living!

In conclusion, I can think of dozens of uses for this if it can really do what they say it can, and only some of them pertain directly to the treatment of disease. This could be an incredible tool for scientists to use!

Coming Soon To A Theater Near You

[OldManAndTheC]

a bacterium the size of a dinosaur over ten stories tall

Run for your lives! It's.... E. Colizilla!!!!

Inebriation

[Anonymous Coward]

"have you been drinking tonight?" "who? me, officer? Never!" "I'm going to have to ask you to step out of your vehicle" "Hold on just a sec" ::magnet picks up not only blood toxins, but officer's gun:: "What the..."

Wow.

[DrEldarion]

Alex Chiu is going to make a fortune.

Happens all the time

[Theatetus]

Even scientists don't read past headlines anymore, it seems (or journal abstracts, in their case).

I read a cool study about the influence of journal abstracts. They looked at all the surveys of the correlation between saturated fat consumption and heart disease. One early study showed there was a correlation between consuming saturated fats and heart disease. Just about every subsequent study has concluded the same thing. However, the data they actually presented in the article almost always showed the opposite; that saturated fat consumption reduces heart disease rates.

But, all any of the peer reviewers read is the abstract. So, the myth keeps strengthening itself. I'd love to see similar studies in areas other than nutrition.

It's not just the peasants who accept things uncritically.

Re:Happens all the time

[mOdQuArK!]

Got links?

Re:Happens all the time

[Theatetus]

I can't find the study I had in mind, but here is a derivative article. The original study may well be in one of the 60-some footnotes but I don't care about the point enough to look myself. I will, though, check if I can find the original again at some point.

I wish I had a better example than nutrition because stating a nutrition opinion is more likely to start a flamewar even than stating emacs's obvious superiority over vi. But having seen some of the nutrition field's shenanigans, I do have to wonder how serious peer reviewers in other fields are.

Re:Happens all the time

[mOdQuArK!]

Interesting reading - although it does sound like the background for an infomercial, at least they're providing references.

would be nice, but...

[atheist666]

1. Anti-toxin nanoparticles injected
2. Nanoparticles bind up toxin
3. Nanoparticles and toxins form crosslinked conjugates
4. Conjugates plug up small arteries
5. Patient dies of stroke, or renal failure, or etc.

To prevent the crosslinking, you'd have to make sure the nanoparticle would have to bind only 1 'toxin' molecule. You'd have to inject as many nanoparticles as there are molecules of what you want to get rid of, which doesn't sound fun.

Re:would be nice, but...

[eyenot]

alternately,
1. nano injected at 1:1,000 per toxin
2. nano bind 1,000th of toxins
3. blood reaches external reservoir; magnetise nano; empty chamber; swish nano and electricute to return to open state, unbinding toxin; collect toxin and free nano, seperate in centrifuge; meanwhile introduce seperated re-free nano into bloodstream 1:999 per toxin (see 1)

hopefully step 3 can be automated to only take a few minutes, cleaning up and readying auxiliary nano while freshly readied nano are reintroduced into the blood. this takes care of your clotting problem.

A whole lot is magnetic

[Sycraft-fu]

There are three types of magnetism in substances:

Ferromagnetism: This is what we'd call magnetic normally. things like iron or some advanced ceramics are this. It is a strongly magnetic material.

Dimagnetic: This is completely non-magnetic. Helium would be a good example. Most people think that everything that isn't ferromagnetic is in this category but it's not.

Paramagnetic: This is a very weak magnetic attraction. Much, much weaker than something that is ferromagnetic, but still influenced by magnets. Water would be an example of a paramagnetic substance.

So you can technically call water magnetic. I mean you can influence it, if you've got a strong enough magnet. It's got to be real, REAL strong though. No fridge magnets or anything.

Sounds a little like kidney dialysis

[HarveyBirdman]

My mum has a permanent shunt in her arm for her thrice weekly trips to the kidney dialysis center. She doesn't even know it's there when not hooked up. We call her the Borg Queen now.

So instead of passing the blood through an external filter, they send in little buggers to grab the bad molecules and take them out through a similar shunt.

Umm, Blood Leech

[TooManyNames]

I knew it was only a matter of time before we returned to leeches.

Damn..

[Hodr]

This is alot of trouble for someone to go through just to pass a piss test. Although as an employer, I think I would have no problems highering someone motivated enough to do this.

Re:Damn..

[welthqa]

One wouldn't really be under the influence at the job anymore, which is what we're told is the reason for the drug tests.

QUACK?

[Anonym1ty]

Does this mean that belt you wear with the magnets over your kidneys might have actually worked?

don't hit me, it's sarcasm

Obligatory Sci-Fi Book Mention

[CrazyWingman]

Y'all have already read Michael Chrichton's Prey, right?

True, but water works.

[Chris Burke]

In case you are caught unprepared without your Ultimate Hangover Cure (nice link btw), chugging several Big Gulps full of water before hitting the sack is a tremendous help. Most of the hangover symptoms (headaches, nausea, dry mouth, aching joints) are either caused or exacerbated by the dehydration that results from drinking. Even if you're lacking B-complex vitamins and a way to neutralize the acetaldehyde, 40 oz of water will go a long, long way toward making the next day as pleasant as possible.

People may not believe this, since drinking water on the day after does very little to make the hangover go away. Trust me, chug water before going to bed.

Oh, and since your web link didn't have this piece of advice, I add it here: Avoid tequila like the demon-spawned liquor of evil that it is.

Or at least don't mix it with beer.

Re:True, but water works.

[DaLiNKz]

Makes for fun when you stick your recently drunken friend thats passed out after chugging water, when you stick their hand in a bucket of nice warm water....

Re:True, but water works.

[ShortedOut]

40oz before you go to bed? Yikes! I'd either piss on myself in my sleep, or wake up every 30 minutes to use the bathroom!

Re:True, but water works.

[Chris Burke]

Drink the water, then take a big piss (which will be all the water flushed out of your system by the alcohol), then pass out. Your body will absorb most of the water you drank, since it now really needs it. You'll probably have to piss when you wake up, but I've never had it bother my sleep. I usually drink more than than, too, if I was drinking heavily.

Re:Iron

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Correction:

diamagnetic materials *Can* be magnetically levitated with a strong enough magnet. Livermore succeded in suspending small frogs and spiders.

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Fun 2. Detoxing with Magnets 3. ?? 4. Profit!

Excellent for hemodialysis patients

[Anonymous Coward]

At the rate my kidneys are failing, I'll probably be needing hemodialysis in a couple years. Making the procedure faster would sure go a long way to keeping me gainfully employed.

At last I am free

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally! I'm SO tired of Donald Pleasance and Racquel Welch floating around in my bloodstream!

Am I the only one...

[SlimFastForYou]

Who at the first glance of the title thought of the 2.6 linux kernel?

In that case...

[StringBlade]

There really is no purpose in trying to extract cancer in this manner since I highly doubt this method extracts 100% of toxins and therefore the leftover parts could simply re-contaminate the "clean" blood.

Again, it has mostly to do with the quality of the magnetic field. Having played with iron shavings and a bar magnet I'm not entirely confident that a single magnet will be able successfully extract all the toxins. However, this seems more useful in the case of lead poisioning (no, I'm not trying to be funny) or other toxins ingested/injected and absorbed into the blood stream that could have 80% of the toxins extracted and result in a significant improvement in the health of the patient.

Re:In that case...

[hesiod]

> this seems more useful in the case of lead poisioning

With things such as lead & iron poisoning, aren't the particles too small to be effectively affected (that's an odd phrase) by a magnet?

Another concern/question of mine: There are so many blood routes through the body, you would have to place this by (into) your aorta/vena cava (is that right? Haven't had Anatomy class for years) to have a chance at affecting the entire stream, correct? Otherwise, it might be diluted, but never entirely removed.

A company I worked for...

[cornice]

A company I worked for a while back had a product that it was testing that could remove all sort of things from the blood. It had been tested in humans a few times removing heprin in people that would have otherwise bled out. The company ditched the product after the higher-ups decided the time and cost to bring it to market was too great. The researcher who championed the technology fought bravely to keep it alive, touting its potential to remove all sorts of toxins, but the short term gains just were not there. Now the technology likely sits in a pile of boxes somewhere instead of saving and improving lives. It makes me wonder how many other stories there are just like this one.

Re:Iron

[CJ Hooknose]

Bil, Shooter of Bul wrote: diamagnetic materials *Can* be magnetically levitated with a strong enough magnet.

Yes, diamagnetic materials are repelled weakly by a magnetic field. But I thought my comment was getting too long and had too many asides, so I didn't mention that weak effect. I didn't know Livermore levitated a frog, though!

This isn't really new

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a new and surprising application of an old technology. We routinely use a similar technique in the lab to precipitate proteins. You basically immobilize antibodies that recognize a specific protein on magnetic beads, then suspend the beads in a cell extract. The antibodies bind the targeted protein to the beads, and when you apply a magnetic field, the beads stick to the side of the tube, and you can suck off the crap you don't want, washing multiple times.

The beads we use are very human-unfriendly, but the basic concept is the same. It also means that anything you can raise antibodies against can be pulled out of solution with this technique. Only one problem: antibodies are EXPENSIVE. Using enough to pull all of a given toxin out of a human would cost hundreds of dollars, if not more.

Re:Practical application (what's the problem)

[JumperCable]

So if all of the drug users can pass the drug screens via "the shunt" and for that mater sober/shunt up before they get to work what's the problem? Suddenly you don't have people high at work. Do you really still need to fire them for what they do on their personal time?

Re:Magnetic virus removal

[Anonymous Coward]

Viruses are likely to be inside cells (Busy replicating. They need cells) And a big fat nano-particle will simply wander by outside. Actually, I do not like the idea of this invasive injection. There is an older technique of immobilising antibodies to toxins onto a column and passing blood out of the body thru it and back in. A type of specific dialysis. The toxins can get washed off with alcohol-water and the column reused. Alternatively, and still technology a decade old, you can design antibodies that are more like enzymes. They kill the toxins. The nice bit is that the body can get rid of antibodies, as they are naturally present. (I used to be an immuno chemist, but post-redundancy I program databases.)

Still a monopoly in every market...

[Tokerat]

...I can't help but giggle like Beavis & Butthead when I attempt to imagine what a "Microsoft Nanotube Pole" would really be.

HIV

[jeremyhu]

I wonder if the nanoparticles could latch onto HIV infected cells in the bloodstream as another possible treatment for HIV.

problems with scientific testing...

[JimBobJoe]

I'd open an herbal/magnetic/psychic/everything superstore and name it PLACEBO, INC

There are of course lots of scams on the market. Then there are a lot of good alternative therapies that have not been tested scientifically, for a vareity of reasons.

Keep in mind that your company making herbal supplements has neither the money nor the inclination to run a bunch of double blind tests.

Keep in mind that a pharmaceutical company can patent the drug they make (usually by patenting the process used to make it.) An herbal supplement company can't...most supplements, frankly, are just some form of the herb grown, cut, dried, pulverized and then put into a little capsule. The relatively cheap prices reflect this.

There is also an interesting issue with the testing itself. Western medicine likes to break things down. For instance, a good study on Odelandia, a major herb used in traditional chinese medicine, came out several years ago, showing that it reduced lung cancer cells. Well that's all good, but the study was not really understood in the TCM community. Why? Traditional chinese medicine does a lot of mixing...Odelandia is never alone, it's taken in "patent" medicines which are cocktails of 4-12 different herbs.

Some of the newest prescription medications may be derived from natural herbs. However you can't patent an herb, there's no money in it. The pharmaceutical company will take the herb apart, trying to find the one chemical that may have been having the desired effect, boost that one chemical and sell it. In the long run, all those other chemicals in the herb may have been catalysts (and so the one isolated chemical may not have the same effect as just ingesting the entire flower.) Given this, patent medicines are not just 4-12 different herbs together, they really consist of hundreds of different chemicals mixed together. This simply exists outside of the bounds of your double blind placebo test.

But finally, let's say that it's all a scam anyway. Everything about alternative medicine.

So I look at your average FDA approved pharmaceutical study, and I find that the active drug is only marginally more effective than the placebo, which, in itself, is fairly effective.

The Mayo brothers (of the Mayo clinic) once said that 2/3rds of the people in their hospital were there for psychological issues...which grew into physical ailments.

Shit, billions of dollars are invested into all these great pharmaceuticals, which are still not all that much more effective than the placebo. Imagine if we put all that money into making the placebo better.

My spending on alternative medicines is no where near that of a modern pharmaceutical...and I get all the benefits without the side effects. If I'm being hoodwinked, at least it's to my advantage, and it's being done cheaply.

Re:problems with scientific testing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Given this, patent medicines are not just 4-12 different herbs together, they really consist of hundreds of different chemicals mixed together. This simply exists outside of the bounds of your double blind placebo test.

Nonsense. I will grant that it is not impossible for an herbal cocktail to be more effective than any of its individual components, but that's irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason why you can't test the efficacy of the herbal cocktail as a whole.

The reason it isn't often done is that the alternative medicine community is overwhelmingly anti-science. Dozens of traditional cures have been shown by science over the years to be ineffective or harmful, but the alternative medicine community has chosen to interpret this as an indictment of science, rather than an indictment of traditional cures -- they just KNOW that their cures work, so if science says otherwise, then science must be wrong.

As a consequence, they scoff at the very suggestion that they should test their cures before putting them on the market. If any of these herbal cures DO work, there is really no way to tell. The research simply isn't there.

billions of dollars are invested into all these great pharmaceuticals, which are still not all that much more effective than the placebo. Imagine if we put all that money into making the placebo better.

Are you joking? Do you even know what the placebo effect is?

Re:problems with scientific testing...

[JimBobJoe]

There is absolutely no reason why you can't test the efficacy of the herbal cocktail as a whole.

Yes, absolutelely, and while I dont' disagree that there are some in the community that don't like the testing, there is also a hesistance in the western medicine community to test cocktails, since, in their mind, not knowing which chemical is the active one means that the test results aren't any good.

Are you joking? Do you even know what the placebo effect is?

I'm joking, being serious, making a metaphor, some social commentary, and maybe one or two other things at the same time. More people are saved by hope than anything else....

ETERNAL LIFE RINGS!

[gnovos]

Once again, Alex Chiu proves he's ahead of the game.

Appropriate quotation at bottom of page

[Anonymous Coward]

Just now, the quotation at the bottom of the page was:

The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober. -- William Butler Yeats

And to think that we were talking about drunkness cures.

Usable for fat redistribution?

[g.a.g]

What I'd like to see this technology used for is fat redistribution. Imagine these critters being injected at your fat repositories, latching onto a fat cell, getting into your bloodstream and depositing it either through the shunt or wherever you have the magnetic field positioned.

Usage: inject in the hips, wear magnetic bra! Result: Big boobs, thin legs!
Why make trillions, if I could make ... billions!?

Possible Weapon?

[lord_nightrose]

Just imagine what would happen if someone designed particles that targetted our white bloods cells, or on a lower level even our DNA. What kind of havoc could they wreak if someone released them into the air at quantities large enough that they would make it into the bloodstream through the lungs or the stomach?

Dear god I hate the addiction to the nano buzzword

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll have to pardon my rant but,

100 to 5000 nm does not a nanoparticle make. Anything over 1000nm is BY DEFINITION not a nanoparticle because its on the MICRON scale and hence the far less buzz-worthy "Microscopic." By convention something can be refered to as being of nano-scale if it has at least one dimension below 100-200nm, but this particle size range leads me to believe that very few of these particles are actually near the upper limit of what is considered nano-scale. This is a great bit of interesting science, it doesn't need the buzzing up to stand on it's own. I wish more scientists would stop falling into these trends and let science actually be what it is.