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Rockstar Censors GTA After Haitian Outcry
Thanks to VE3D for carrying a statement from Take Two/Rockstar announcing the removal of alleged anti-Haitian content from future copies of Grand Theft Auto:Vice City, after a furore which started last month following a CBS TV segment on the game. The controversy, which even had New York's Mayor Bloomberg weighing in on the game's rival gang-related urgings to "Kill all the Haitians", has ended with Rockstar's press release indicating: "We believe that recent media coverage has taken certain statements made in the game out of context... nevertheless, we are aware of the hurt and anger in the Haitian community... we will remove the objectionable statements from future copies of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City."
What about the Orcs? Nobody ever backs the Orcs. They get dissed in more games than anyone. How many other enemies explode on eye contact?
This is getting just ludicrous. So not only is Manhunt not Adults Only, there's also no appreciable outcry about it, and the Rockstar game being censored is getting censored for a quote that sounds racist out of context, as opposed to being censored for, say, sodomizing a gang member with a crowbar. U.S. society is collectively insane. I'm not sure what variety of insanity (although I'd speculate a diagnosis of disorganized schizophrenia), but still... This is all getting disgusting.
In Battlefield 1942 to advance to the next level sometimes you have to kill all the Germans (based on World War II). Frankly I have more German friends on IRC then I do any other nationality.
Kill cops.. thats politically correct
Wasn't the point of the game to be crude and offensive?? That's what makes it fun. If they're going to censor themselves they have a lot of work ahead of them
I would understand if Haitians were the only ethnic group singled out for mindless killing, but honestly....at a point in the game, you actually -work- for the Haitians, specifically for the purpose of killing the rival Cubans. At other points in the game, you kill Italians, French, Colombians, hell, I think I even killed some seagulls. If one took killing people out (and don't whine about ethnicity - in case it's not obvious, -everyone- is part of some ethnicity), you'd have.....nothing. And if you have a problem with killing in general........ DON'T BUY THE FSCKING GAME!!!!! I swear, we need to hold a telethon for these people......
[este]
Sales of Vice City spike up as the last few geeks who live under rocks crawl out to purchase a pre-censored copy.
If you disagree then it must be overrated, redundant or trolling.
I don't believe that they should sensor themselves just because certain people become offended. But, if Rockstar and Take Two truly believed that it is their right to keep a sense of realism in their game, then they shouldn't have removed the content at all. They're already getting enough bad press from the game, which has helped its popularity anyways.
Most importantly, because Rockstar and Take Two are censoring themselves in this manner, they have severely hurt the argument that video games are an artform. It's going to be much harder to have video games gain the same amount of artistic respect that movies and music have to the general public. Special interest groups will have a much easier time getting other companies to follow suit and self-censor as well, because now they can say "Rockstar and Take Two did it, why won't you?"
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
what if this were spray painted on a wall in a movie like Boyz N the Hood?
How is this any different?
Cop killing has been one of the most criticized aspects of this game, but the Hatian comment is what gets the changes made? And really, it's not that out of context of a statement, as there is an unfortunate and very strong anti-Hatian sentiment in South Florida that I have personally witnessed as have many who live down there.
It's valuable pre-christmas publicity!
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Well it was different then than it is now. Today companies have to be more and more responsible because their customers are from all age groups and all walks of life. Rockstar Games isn't backing down from what they produced and they aren't silencing themselves. They are simply being socially responsible. A term that many angry gamers sometimes ignore.
The Voodoo Extreme article stated that Mayor Bloomberg said Rockstar and Take Two would be investigated for human rights violations. The New York Post article stated that Bloomberg said they would be investigated if Take Two didn't comply in removing the phrase.
Either way, what human right is being violated, other than the right to free speech?
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
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I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
Why is everyone so surprised? This is America! You can kill as many people in as many ways as you want, just as long as you're PC about it.
They can replace the Haitians with elves and the cubans with reindeer. The main character will be Santa Claus and he only scores with Mrs. Claus, who happens to wear a bikini. Merry Christmas indeed! Or was that not the effect these people were looking for?
Videogames are the next logical step beyond the Gutenberg Bible and Talkies. To censor them is to tell Falukner, Fitzgerald and Twain they can't make black people the servants in any novel. What's the point of writing if you can't tell the truth about the times you're writing about?
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
Hey there Mr Mike Hawk, if you are going to try and grab a first post, please take your head out of your ass long enough to turn on "AC".
I've never actually played Vice City, but I have played all the other GTA games. If they're anything to go by, you'll definitely kill far more mid-late 20's white guys than anybody else. But I suspect that if I, as one of the above got up there and said "Oi, I'm sick of being in the killable majority" I'd get shouted down as being insensitive to minorities. Sheesh. Maybe there's more of us out there to kill, and I'm not saying that (some of) us don't deserve - probably more as a group - but I'm always by this kind of double standard...
So they've effectively shut up the critics by promising to remove the offending dialogue from all copies of the game produced at some unspecified point in the future after the ten trillion copies currently on store shelves have sold out. Pretty good move on their part if you ask me. Say, did Eidos ever get around to releasing the "censored" version of Hitman 2 without all the Sikh stuff?
Seriously, though, we should really be more concerned about the rampant genocide already present in gaming culture.
One last thing: why is the "strike" tag not supported? I can't be the only one sick of seeing ^Hs.
Co-founder of GerbilMechs
I'm surprised that nobody really seems to understand the context from the Hatian point of view:
I think this form of censorship is along the same lines as a society censoring a public figure for making (even remotely) disparaging remarks about _any_ group. I'm sure we can recall an instance when some Mayor/Newscaster/Governor/Councilwoman/Banker/CEO made some (apparently) anti- (mexican/black/jewish/chinese/mexican/...) remarks and was taken to task to apologise.
Now, one can argue about whether GTA is a "public figure" or not and whether this is covered under "Free Speech". But inasmuch as the "opinions" of the characters in the game reflect the thoughts of the game developers - which are now broadcast to all who are within earshot - one could consider them public.
I think it's well within reason for individuals/groups/companies to seek censure against (perceived) defamatory remarks.
Do we all remember the brouhaha about a certain singer's: "Kick me, Kike me" lyrics?
I hope that, at the very least, this gives you pause to think about the feelings of individuals/groups who don't appreciate such "unpleasant" references to themselves.
It's a popular media topic of late. The story broke here in NY on CBS channel 2 news about a week and change ago. I figured it would boil over like the Doom stuff after the school shootings. On Monday I saw that Fox 5 was running a story on :: brace yourself :: Duke Nukem 3D! Just what I've come to expect from network news, timely, fair and balenced.
I'm just worried that this sets a bad example.
You really care this much about a meaningless word change in a game?
If they had said "Kill all niggers" would you be so indignant?
Stereotyping a nationality of people as 'gang members' is certainly protected by free speech, but anyone who makes millions of dollars by indirectly making these associations deserves no sympathy.
No one is putting a gun to the heads of Rockstar games to make this change. I am surprised their lawyers missed this obvious of a slur.
This gives me hope in our seemingly lost democracy: A large number of people were offended, complained to the company, and the company listened to the will of the community by making the requested changes.
How isn't this a happy ending? We're not talking game redesign here, it is one word people, lighten up! If all developers were this responsive to the outcries of their users the software market would be awesome!
Brits call themselves brits, Scots call themselves Scots so those two are probably self explanatory.
It probably doesn't help if you've been at war with someone in reasonably recent history as the abbreviated names tend to have retained their pejorative edge.
It also has to be said that I don't think I've ever heard "nip", "chink" or "paki" said without a degree of ill-feeling behind it (GWB's "pakis" statement being the exception).
It's not terribly unreasonable to accept that some shortened names have gathered a negative meaning while some haven't. Language evolves like that.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Because there has been entirely too much of these changes in videogames lately. See this article, or the incident where Hitman 2 was changed for supposedly featuring a negative stereotype about another racial group. This is getting utterly ridiculous.
Why is it okay to have games where the Russians, or the Nazis, or various assorted Middle Eastern types are the villians, but not Canadians or Haitians? Is it okay as long as you're not the same race as the villians? Is it acceptable as long as you're killing what is percieved to be an "evil" people?
Rockstar should have stood up for themselves and told these groups where they can stick it. They don't need to be giving in to these groups and setting dangerous precidents. Oh, well. Too late now.
Quit whining about Rockstar caving in. It doesn't matter anymore, GTA Vice City is out there, anyone who hasn't boughten the game by now will do so before the censored copies hit the shelves.
Why should Rockstar fight in costly court battles when they could take 5 minutes and fix what people want to them to fix in a product which isn't likely to make them more money. Now that money that would have been invested into GTA Vice City can be invested into GTA Kill the Haitans.
...if any. If none, I apologize.
Frankly, I'm ready to write to them, and say thank you for making such a great game. It's rare you see a title where everyone has an equal opportunity to get shot in the face.
Informatus Technologicus
It's rare you see a title where everyone has an equal opportunity to get shot in the face.
how true. not since Carmageddon have i been so tickled by the so-indiscriminantly-violent-i-cant-help-but-laugh thing. i mean, seriously, had Rockstar put in Polish dudes into gta instead of Haitians or god knows who else, i would have bought this game even sooner. i would not have been offended in the least, Polish heritage and all.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
and it doesn't come out here till January 9th (god knows why) so I don't know whether it will be censored in this way or not. There's also rumours that the Australian edition might be censored in other ways in any case. For the most part I probably don't actually care though. As long as the game mechanics are the same I don't expect a bit of swearing/nudity/whatever here or there will alter my enjoyment much.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Brits call themselves brits...
We do? First I've heard of it. To my ears the term sounds rather derogatory, although Americans use it so frequently, and so obviously without malice, that only an idiot would bother to be offended.
I certainly don't object to anti-British sentiment in movies and video games, though, usually it just makes them funnier. Anyone remember the bartender's line from Privateer? "Man, I hate the British. I mean, who doesn't, right?" Did Origin take that line out before releasing it on this side of the Atlantic? Of course not!
And I've heard it reasonably often. But I live outside Britain, Brits inside Britain might not talk about being British as often because it's normal rather than a distinguishing feature I guess.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
So then the real question is, do people from the UK realize how offended some people are at being called Yanks?
-PainKilleR-[CE]
END THE HATE!
. ht ml</LI>
Join my petition.. demand that humantiy be taken out of such a wretched game! Rockstar must not use humanity for greed!!!
<LI>http://www.petitiononline.com/havc/petition
Let them know! Let our voices be heard!!
END THE HATE!
l
Join my petition.. demand that humantiy be taken out of such a wretched game! Rockstar must not use humanity for greed!!!
http://www.petitiononline.com/havc/petition.htm
Let them know! Let our voices be heard!!
If they had said "Kill all niggers" would you be so indignant?
Why would it make any difference, other than "Haitian" not being a derogatory term.
As someone with an Italian roots, I'd want Rockstar to defend their right to say "Kill all the fucking wop dagos!"
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
I'm sure Rockstar cares very much about your "inability" to buy their games, and will cater to your every whim to fix the problem.
For fuck's sake, they've been taking a beating over the game for close to a year now. They're going to have to cave in on something eventually.
I mean, seriously, do you think this is anything BUT a publicity stunt, as mentioned earlier?
Heh. My roots are so muddied I can't say something of the sort, but I can say that it wouldn't matter to me what they said, so long as it was IN CHARACTER for the group portrayed.
I think it's the authenticism that gives the game its flavor.
Screw them all... ... It's a FREAKING GAME!
An ENTERTAINMENT EXPERIENCE.
If you don't understand that you don't qualify to use the product - don't watch any movies either.
Get a life!!
No one would complain if it said "Kill Whitey!" - the f*ing liberals would say "We deserve it".
Perhaps Rockstar will maintain artistic integrity. Maybe in the changed text they'll include some clever jab at the critics. We can only hope. It sounds like something they would do.
Look at the difference between geeks calling each other geeks, and someone else using the term. One shows camaraderie the other derision. Or look at the uproar around here when someone in the media uses hacker instead of cracker.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
why is the "strike" tag not supported? I can't be the only one sick of seeing ^Hs.
I was wondering what the "^H^H"s were. Now I'm happy. =)
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
I posted a bit prematurely BUT I think people should write to Rockstar and let them know that caving to special interest groups does not make the people who buy their games happy. I want the developers of GTA4 to have full reign and know that the company will back them up with whatever they produce. I don't want self-censorship to be going on.
I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
...hate everyone equally; but now I hate haitians just a little bit more.
Natural-Selection Be
Change "fucking rednecks" to rednecks and I hear non-white people say it all the time, and pretty much never hear anyone take offense. Of course, throw an adjective in front of it and it changes completely. I've also known a number of jews who were refered to as names simliar to christ killer and didn't care, generally he found them fairly amusing.(occasionally a local uber-christian would get mad, but not the jewish guy).
Nigger is the only racial term I can think of at the moment that makes people mad only if a specific race uses it. I wouldn't mind much if people got mad when anyone used it, but personally it seems a bit racist for a single skin color of people to be completely singled out and not allowed to use it.
As for the whining and crying on daddy's shoulder, seems like its not the white guys that whine and cry and get angry whenever a naughty word gets used.
The long history of white slave owners and black slaves is over, lets let it pass and remember it as a bad time that is gone and must never be brought back.
Well it's a bit like tickling/back-slapping.
If a stranger tries to tickle you, that's harassment.
That said lots of people are stuck where they are because they spend more time whining than doing something positive. Or they choose to adopt a self-destructive culture.
I could've done a voodoo joke here, but then it struck me that fighting racism with prejudice isn't funny.
What's so bad about being lazy? What if there was a war and nobody showed up?
Language does not evolve to a standard. Negative aspects to some words exist because of their historical usage not "sudden" decisions on the part os "PC pansies" today.
If anyone is being "politically correct" it is you as you are trying to wipe out the accepted, naturally acquired meaning of words in an effort to make things "even".
The only "coincidence" is that you chose the examples you listed. There are no doubt counter examples, such as calling an Italian an Iti.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
"Kill all the Haitians!" flows. The creators used those words -- that is what they felt would compel the player the most in that situation. Changing a single thing due to censorship utterly destroys the creative flow of the work. And GTA:VC was another masterpiece, from what I've heard, so this is really bad news. What's next, telling them to remove black and mexican gang members form GTA3? I never thought Take Two would cave in this fast. Here's a list of easy things they could have said to protect their creation and creativity in the future: 1) They could say "It's rated M for Mature, deal." 2) They could say "It's called the first ammendment, deal" 3) They could say "It's just a game, deal" 4) They could say "We don't even make that game anymore, it's so last year." 5) They could say "Shut up, guys. Nobody cares. Quit being a bunch of sensative pussies." If somehow none of those things worked, they finally could have come to some kind of agreement by simply not selling the game in that city. If they said "Kill all the Finnish-German-Americans!" I would have laughed my ass off.. Like those Haitians should have too, not spoiled it.
Short answer: yes. But maybe in a different way to Americans.. to people from the UK I'd say it summons up the image of an arrogant (quite possibly stock-broker) American.
Ah come on, you know that no-one calls themselves British. You're either Scottish, Welsh, English or from Northern Ireland (do they have a short version?).
heh, in the US, Yankees would most likely be those in the northern states, specifically referring to the US Civil War (North vs. South and all of that). To some people here in the south it is quite an offense to be called a Yankee. Then again, there're also those like myself that grew up outside of the area involved that just think the only reason someone would use such an antiquated term would be to use it in a derogatory sense.
-PainKilleR-[CE]
When the British (and Irish) Lions tour they do :)
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Yeah it is used derogatorily but probably not at the level of intended offensiveness as some people in the south might take it.
It probably maintains currency in international usage because "Yank" sounds a fair bit like "wank(er)" which is more or less the sort of feeling that is often meant.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
The long history of white slave owners and black slaves is over, lets let it pass and remember it as a bad time that is gone and must never be brought back.
Part of that "bad time" was the usage of the word by slave masters to refer to their African slaves. That's where the negativity comes from. If you want to let the long history of slavery pass, be my guest, but the word goes with it.
And don't use one particular experience you had with a Jewish friend as an example of how the entire group feels. There are plenty of Jews who are extremely offended by the notion that they should endure persecution because the person who put Christ to death was Jewish. Just look at all the uproar over Mel Gibson's movie.
Everything is about context. If my best friend is Jewish and I call him a dirty penny-pinching Yid, the ADL isn't going to hold a press conference and condemn me. But if I walk into a Vietnamese shop and call the clerk a gook, he's probably going to be pretty pissed. The word nigger isn't bothersome, but the way it's used (and has been used in recent history) is what causes it to have a negative connotation for black people.
It's real simple. I can say what I want about my mother. If you say something about her we're going to have a problem. Blacks appropriated the term nigger and made it a neutral, "in" slang. In general what is objectional is the way it is being used. A white person is less likely to use nigger in a friendly, convivial way. If they try to do so, it is likely to seem like condecension or an clumsy attempt to emulate another culture.
In fact, white people who are sufficiently "in" to a black scene can and do get away with the "friendly" use of nigger, if they want, depending on context. There are also plenty of black people (more common among older blacks) who do not like to hear it said at all no matter the context or who says it. To them it seems to reflect ignorance of the history of the word - as a perjorative term arising from slavery. Social norms don't necessarily make a lot of sense.
Being the pasty honky cracker I am, and given that it has been traditionally used as a perjorative term of contempt, I don't use the term nigger casually although I might get away with it in certain contexts. Am I "politically correct?" No, I just try to be a polite and decent person.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
It probably maintains currency in international usage because "Yank" sounds a fair bit like "wank(er)" which is more or less the sort of feeling that is often meant.
And interestingly enough, at least to some people in the US, yank or yanker has pretty much the same meaning as wank or wanker in the UK.
-PainKilleR-[CE]
Are you trying to draw me out so I lose karma? You've got to understand I don't care. You seem to however, and I find that interesting.
Since you asked, "Owned" was the quickest, most to the point statement about what happened to Rockstar. They sold out not only themselves, but the entire case for games as art by not backing up their freedom of speech rights and caving to a small time politician and some micro special interest group. Of course, as usual you don't understand the issue at hand, and couldn't see how that simple statement summed it up perfectly with no wasted time or calories.
Now, interestingly, +1 Funny doesn't go to karma, so either way that moderation does nothing but prove how the small group who routinely posts in the Games section has too much power. I bet you used your normal account to mod yourself Funny and then mod my reply down? Hey, good for you.
And I thought you weren't going to read my tripe anymore. I told you a long time ago, I'm not going on a date with you and you can't come to my house anymore. You really should move on.
Yes, that's the point. If they were having guns put to their heads and being forced to make this change (and would be put that passed the haitians, really?), then this would be acceptable.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. what's the sound of a thousand voices blithering in a vaccuuum? "moooooderator! mod down!"
Now if you want real trouble call an Canadian, American.
I find that more often then not, in games that utilize Russians as a) 1950 Stalin Communist with AKs pointing to the free world or b) Neo Communists who hold up Stalin as an ideal or such nonsense while middle eastern types are generally referred to as the zealot types. At least in the games I've played and can remember correctly(read: maybe 2. That i can remember correctly. I think.)
"Do you suppose that's why God lives in the Heavens? Because he lives in fear of His creations?" - Steve Buscemi
That was teh funnay, that whole dog and pony show with the PTC. I'm glad it happened, brought out the RTC, which I felt really made use of second stringers like Stevie Richards and Ivory and putting them to use. Plus their characters got Chyna off my screen for a good long time. That was freakin awesome.
"Do you suppose that's why God lives in the Heavens? Because he lives in fear of His creations?" - Steve Buscemi