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SCO Group Web Site Attacked Again

FreeLinux writes "With not much SCO news today, it seemed that this story was needed - Reuters is reporting that, SCO is again suffering under a DDoS attack that has crippled their web site and email system since Wednesday morning. For the third time this year, the SCO Group's Web site came under attack, apparently by hackers unhappy with the company's legal threats against users of the Linux operating system. The denial-of-service attack started at 6:20 a.m. EST Wednesday and continued through the day, said Blake Stowell, spokesman for the Lindon-based company."

147 of 564 comments (clear)

  1. Come on guys... by micantos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Grow up. Settle it by the law.

    1. Re:Come on guys... by Atmchicago · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It certainly was effectively used by the spammers to crush their enemies. I forget the name, but one of the major anti-spam websites was forcibly closed because of DDoS, and nobody was prosecuted.

      --

      You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.

    2. Re:Come on guys... by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, would, but we can't e-mail them documents anymore.

      Looks like Rock, Paper, Scissors is the only remaining viable solution.

    3. Re:Come on guys... by rebeka+thomas · · Score: 5, Informative

      > Grow up. Settle it by the law.

      Yes. SCO should do that instead of lying about their downtime

      --
      RST
    4. Re:Come on guys... by inode_buddha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hell, *I* use Linux and dislike SCO, but this is just a tad unprofessional. OK, I'm kinda disgusted by this behavior - it destroys a moral "high ground" that might be useful to have shortly.

      --
      C|N>K
    5. Re:Come on guys... by Stefman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think that DDoS and cracking is the solution, but unfortunately, the law is not always helpful either.

      Look at what the use of the law did for the abuse of monopoly power by MS. It was a slap on the wrist for MS and their continued monopolistic practices.

    6. Re:Come on guys... by croddy · · Score: 2, Informative

      ain't no synflood at *.sco.com ... click me.

    7. Re:Come on guys... by wud · · Score: 5, Funny

      Grow up. Settle it by the law.

      or atleast taking down the site the old fasion way... by posting it on /.

      www.sco.com

      --
      wud
    8. Re:Come on guys... by Frater+219 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Some data:

      ftp.sco.com is 216.250.128.13. www.sco.com is 216.250.128.12. They are on the same network segment. However, the first is completely and normally responsive, while the second is entirely unresponsive. This is not in any way characteristic of any sort of modern flood-type denial-of-service attack -- that is, a DDoS aimed at flooding the network itself. Whatever is disturbing SCO, it is not a DoS of the sort they evidently believe it to be.

      Unfortunately, SCO has taken the "cargo cult security" measure of blocking pings, so it is not possible to gather any information about their disturbance in that fashion. I suspect that the best method to gather information about SCO's disturbance is, in fact, for SCO to fully and legally respond to IBM's discovery requirements.

      ("SYN flood" is obviously wrong. Although some firewalls and IDS still report TCP-based DoS floods as "SYN floods", the condition that used to be associated with SYN floods has been fixed in current operating systems. Unless they are running a system old enough to be called grossly negligent, they aren't susceptible to TCB starvation. The current unavailability of www.sco.com looks more like someone tripped over the Ethernet cable.)

    9. Re:Come on guys... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Funny
      Unless they are running a system old enough to be called grossly negligent



      They use Unixware, duh.

    10. Re:Come on guys... by wwest4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The law is never helpful from the perspective of someone who has lost a case. If MS/SCO/whoever wins and the opposition exhausts appeals, then I'm willing to let a particular case drop.

      As for the precedent the decision establishes - it can also be fought an argued against or nullified without ddos and cracking. Granted, it's difficult and often seems hopeless at that point.

      I'm all for fighting the good fight, but there is no use in 1) exacting vigilante justice because you are impatient or 2) exacting vengeance because you stand to lose from a judgement. The republic (what's left of it) provides legal avenues from which to punish violators, establish new legislation, and overturn precedent. I'm not sure those avenues are completely shut just yet. With many citizens, such methods are not practical to effect an individual's desires in the short term, but they at least provide long-term potential. Think of your kids, and think of the rights you enjoy now because people fought for them despite the fact that they would probably not see their efforts through to fruition.

    11. Re:Come on guys... by tekspot · · Score: 3, Funny

      It is obvious to me that SCO has lost all compitent sys/net admins (who'd want to work for SCO these days anyway)and hired MCSE's to manage their Linux webservers.

      Got SYN-cookie?

    12. Re:Come on guys... by 1000StonedMonkeys · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It certainly was effectively used by the spammers to crush their enemies. I forget the name, but one of the major anti-spam websites was forcibly closed because of DDoS, and nobody was prosecuted.

      And this improved the public's perception of spammers how?

    13. Re:Come on guys... by cr0nj0b · · Score: 2, Funny

      what are you talking about? come on...its SCO afterall. their systems crash with being DDoS or even a healthy /.ing

    14. Re:Come on guys... by Trepalium · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A synflood would generally only affect the host it's directed at. There would be some extra traffic, but I believe even a 33.6Kbps modem can synflood a single server on a fat pipe (pipe size in this case does not matter). However, this is not what we're seeing. We're seeing their provider filtering www.sco.com's IP address. That's what's peculiar.

      --
      I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
    15. Re:Come on guys... by prockcore · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hell, *I* use Linux and dislike SCO, but this is just a tad unprofessional. OK, I'm kinda disgusted by this behavior - it destroys a moral "high ground" that might be useful to have shortly.

      That's probably exactly why SCO is faking this DDoS attack.

    16. Re:Come on guys... by RALE007 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Rock, Paper, Scissors is outdated and has been updated. To further the "paperless society", it's just Rock, Scissors. Daryl took the scissors and is running around with them sharp end pointed up. I guess we'll just have to find a rock to throw at him. Not the same but fun none the less!

      --
      Beware blue cats moving at .99c
    17. Re:Come on guys... by TyrranzzX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At this point with all the lies and marketspeak you're believing anything that comes out of SCO's corperate orifice? I wouldn't be the least suprised if the net admin running the show at the SCO building needed to unplug the net connection for a few hours for routine maintainance, or if the "ddos" attack a few months ago was really a switch blowing and them having to overnight ship a new one pronto while everything was jurry rigged to barely work. You're talking about people who have such a distorted view of reality that they'll say open source software is illegal because it's too free without offering a clear, concise explination and then expect reality to revolve around them.

    18. Re:Come on guys... by eraser.cpp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just because a system administrator has taken steps (SYN Cookies, kernel tweaking, etc.) to severely limit the SYN flood's access to a network service doesn't mean the box is impervious to this type of attack. The traffic alone when coming from many different hosts, likely including hundreds of university/cable drones, can overpower their bandwidth capabilities. Also lets not forget that they are trying to keep http open to legitimate connecting clients.

    19. Re:Come on guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Darl already has the rock in his pipe, you'll have to find something else to throw at him.

    20. Re:Come on guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      wow. anecdotal evidence of some major anti-spam website which you conveniently forget the name of.

      shit, i'm sold. where do i sign up for your newsletter? where do i send the donations?

    21. Re:Come on guys... by kcbrown · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The law is never helpful from the perspective of someone who has lost a case. If MS/SCO/whoever wins and the opposition exhausts appeals, then I'm willing to let a particular case drop.

      Except that, in the MS antitrust case, MS lost and yet we, the people, got screwed because the "justice" system refused to treat MS the same way it treats normal citizens, and MS as a result wasn't penalized in any meaningful way for its crime. And that's despite the callous disregard for the law and the "justice" system MS showed in the courtroom. No ordinary citizen would have survived that, much less be let off scott-free.

      No, there is now far too much evidence, going all the way to the Supreme Court (there's no other reasonable explanation for their decision on the Copyright Term Extension Act) that the "justice" system has absolutely nothing to do with justice and everything to do with money and power to believe that it will ever yield a reasonable outcome except through sheer luck.

      And in the case of SCO, we're in luck. If there's any computer company that has what it takes to take on MS (even if MS is using SCO as a proxy), it's IBM. If SCO had picked a smaller target we'd much more likely be screwed, given that SCO has backing from MS.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    22. Re:Come on guys... by zurab · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They use Unixware, duh.


      Actually, they are using Linux. Most likely, they are using UnitedLinux based on SUSE. All SUSE distros have syn flood protection enabled by default. Plus, many people report their FTP server was fine all this time on the same subnet. SCO's story doesn't add up. It looks like they shut off their webserver to have another excuse at a press release to try to drive their stock price back up in order to dump more shares to buy shiny Christmas presents.

      That's my guess anyway.
    23. Re:Come on guys... by mkettler · · Score: 2, Informative

      The DNS blacklists hosted at Osirusoft and monkeys.com were both shut down this year by DDoS attacks. Osirusoft was the most widely reported and probably the one you are thinking of.

      There may be other shutdowns I'm unaware of. Many other DNSBLs are being subject to attacks, but several are handling them very well.

      --
      -Matt
    24. Re:Come on guys... by boots@work · · Score: 2, Funny

      "SYN flood" is obviously wrong... Unless they are running a system old enough to be called grossly negligent, they aren't susceptible to TCB starvation.

      Well, there are no SYN cookies on SCO UnixWare/OpenServer systems. I say that based not only on the google search, but also reports from friends who used to run a large site on UnixWare until a few years ago.

      I mean, SYN cookies are only 7 years old now. You can't expect a world-class technology innovator like SCO to have implemented them quite that quickly, can you?

      Linux having SYN cookies just proves that Linux is a bicycle. Or something like that.

    25. Re:Come on guys... by _KiTA_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IT didn't affect it at all.

      1. The public can't even spell DDoS, yet alone know what it is.
      2. The public has no idea what a email blacklist is, or why they're important for fighting spammers. To them, telling people that one of these sites would elicit a "huh?" response, not a "oh, damn!".
      3. The public most likely didn't hear about the spammers pulling this crap, because CNN was too busy showing happy puppies and ignoring real news (like this, the war crimes in Iraq, etc).

      So yeah. The spammer's reputations, which are tarnished beyond repair already, are, er, "safe", such as it is.

    26. Re:Come on guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      actually it was *2* of the biggest anti spam websites, but who's counting. It was covered by slashdot roughly 1-2 months ago, but our attention span is now down to 27 seconds, so we've all forgotten the names.

    27. Re:Come on guys... by orthogonal · · Score: 5, Funny

      The public has no idea what a email blacklist is, or why they're important for fighting spammers.

      As a member of the public, I want you to know that I am offended by your use of the term "blacklist".

      It is offensive to all African-Americans and other People of Color. Why must "black" always be equated with "bad", when exploitative White male colonizers are the source of all evil in the world?

      You might as well perpetuate the culture of oppression by referring to some disk drives as "Master", and some as "Slave".

      I will petition the Los Angeles City Council to ban the use of these "blacklists" altogether!

      I urge my fellow easily offended perpetually victimized knee-jerk progressives to join me in this vitally important crusade.

    28. Re:Come on guys... by Amiga+Lover · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Curiously, in the time that SCO's site was "being attacked" they managed to

      1. give the site a bit of a revamp. It's different, and content has changed.
      2. Switch operating systems. http://uptime.netcraft.com/perf/graph?site=www.sco .com shows they have gone from using linux/apache before the attack, to unknown/apache after the attack.

      Now, you're in the middle of what you claim is a network attack. You say your site is down, email is down, support is down, and you're working hard to get these things going again... so instead of actually trying to get the network up again, you revamp the site and change the OS of the server

      SCO is so full of shit, and the mainstream media is licking up their bullshit press releases. Blah.

    29. Re:Come on guys... by the_mad_poster · · Score: 2, Funny

      For the love of God!

      You're talking about Osirusoft, monkeys.com, and compu.net!

      Sheesh... I'm glad at least ONE of us spends way too much time on Slashdot and can actually remember this crap.

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    30. Re:Come on guys... by arivanov · · Score: 2, Informative

      The analysis is written by yet another clueless fuck claiming to be a security or a network professional.

      You get .12 and .13 adjacent on cheap low end bozo hosting.

      In real life they may be in different corners of the globe, because in real high end network installations people use loopback addresses and you never ever see the actual physicals. They may even be on martian networks (and usually are) that are uplinks to a firewall or load balancer which quite often does forwarding with no increment of TTL so that people do not know that it is there.

      So the fact that ftp.sco.com is accessible while www is not does not mean a thing.

      Same goes for SYN cookies and SYN floods. The part of the attack that brings the target machine down is now well mitigated and most systems are not vulnerable to it. This still leaves the service part. The bad thing about SYN floods is that in order not to go down the target site has to discard SYNs. This is usually done by rate limiting them. Once SYNs have been rate limited, a sufficiently thick flood of SYNs from random addresses will render the site unresponsive and inaccessible, no matter what patches have been applied, because for every legit SYN you will have up to hundreds of non-legit ones.

      Note that I am not defending SCO.

      I am simply sick of "security" and "network reliability" cretinoids that continue to make claims based solely on IP addressing. This claims are invalid, void and outright stupid.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  2. And groklaw... by gnuadam · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...and the happy folks at Groklaw already have a statement up with arguments to effect that SCO is fibbing. They think the attack could be a hoax.

    --
    You say :wq, I say ZZ. Why can't we all just get along?
    1. Re:And groklaw... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      SCO's ISP has also been contacted by zdnet. Although SCO claim to have contacted them and to be working with them on the attack with law enforcement officials, it's the first they'd heard of it.

      And a DDoS doesn't have a timeframe. SCO claimed they will be able to get up and going again within 12 hours. So they know it's a DDoS, and don't know who's doing it, but know when it'll stop?

      Good one SCO. Makes us chuckle.

    2. Re:And groklaw... by irokitt · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You've got a very good point. A DDOS attack has no timetable for recovery. While it isn't very simial in its method, the attack described here helps to illustrate that, going into recovery, there is no way of predicting a timetable.

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    3. Re:And groklaw... by SkArcher · · Score: 4, Informative

      I submitted a version of this story with links to Groklaw and various technical resources and got rejected. Wish the /. editors team would pick decent story writers.

      Anyhow folks, the consensus at Groklaw is that either SCO are lying through their teeth and this is all FUD, or their network admin staff are a bunch of incompetents.

      There are no prizes for guessing what the /. theory will be.

      In specific, the outage at www.sco.com started before the reported time by several hours, was already under analysis by Groklaw before the claimed time, the pattern of the servers shutoff is NOT consistent with a SYN DDOS (the claimed attack), but it is consistent with either a planned shutdown, or a network cable being unplugged.

      There was no slowdown of service - see netcraft for the stats. SCO claim e-mail and other services were compromised which do not use the TCP SYN/ACK and are not therefore vulnerable to this attack (when on different servers (which they are, see groklaw for a list). ftp.sco.com remained up, despite being on the same subnet, and smtp.sco.com would respond throughout the duration of the supposed 'attack'.

      The above is a synopsis of Work presented for analysis at Groklaw, any mistakes are my own, any credit is due to the authors on Groklaw and to PJ.

      --

      An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of /.
    4. Re:And groklaw... by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Funny

      At the risk of being redundant, At the risk of being redundant, here's the story http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200312101 63721614 I'm kind of surprised there aren't more comments about the fact that SCO is lying about this. Everything else seems irrelevent(sp) The guys at lwn made comments about checking the facts first before running with the story.

      --
      What?
    5. Re:And groklaw... by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 5, Funny
      the consensus at Groklaw is that either SCO are lying through their teeth and this is all FUD, or their network admin staff are a bunch of incompetents.
      That's lawyers for you: always one or the other. Guilty or innocent. Right or wrong. Black or white. Never once considered the possibility that it's both.
      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    6. Re:And groklaw... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Interesting

      SCO claim e-mail and other services were compromised which do not use the TCP SYN/ACK and are not therefore vulnerable to this attack

      "email"? SMTP? POP3? IMAP? All of these are TCP-based, and are therefore vulnerable to SYN flooding.

      My guess is a little less conspiracy theory oriented. Some IT guy at SCO royally screwed up and took down an important server. He tried to fix it, but got yelled at by management before he could resolve things. He made up an "oh, hackers did that" story to cover his ass.

      Just because it makes the open source community look bad and they thought that they *were* under attack, SCO execs handed out a press release.

    7. Re:And groklaw... by Phleg · · Score: 2

      Actually, SMTP does use the TCP SYN/ACK, being, well, a TCP-based protocol.

      --
      No comment.
  3. Kinda Sad... by irokitt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't see how this is going to help. Knowing SCO, they might try to make themselves the martyrs and use the attacks to cast a bad light on the Linux community in general. This issue has already gotten nasty enough anyway.

    --
    If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    1. Re:Kinda Sad... by iabervon · · Score: 4, Funny

      All of the current evidence points to a particular Linux user. But chances are they'll never be prosecuted, because SCO almost certainly didn't actually call any law enforcement, and it's not illegal, in any case, to shut down your own website.

  4. A classy move last time this happened... by tcopeland · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...by Eric S. Raymond.

    He makes it clear that SCO is attacking everyone, but he opposes DOS'ing them saying that "the open source community must use the truth, not criminal methods, as its weapons." Nicely done

    1. Re:A classy move last time this happened... by boots@work · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, RMS claims to speak for the Free Software Foundation, an organization he started and still leads. That sounds pretty fair to me.

      ESR persistently claims to speak for all hackers or "our tribe" or "our community". Such a thing has such fuzzy boundaries that it has no single opinion, and even if it did ESR wouldn't represent it.

      Being pedantic about terminology may or may not be a good tactic, but I think it's understandable for RMS to resist the FSF being written out of history by clueless journalists.

    2. Re:A classy move last time this happened... by pete-classic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well said.

      I think they both do some good work.

      I also think that the FSF's contributions to "the community" in general an Free *NIX in particular are woefully under-appreciated.

      I corresponded with RMS on one occasion and the whole "GNU/Linux" thing came up. He was totally reasonable about it, in stark contrast with his (apparently undeserved) reputation.

      The guy is an idealist. I think that's a rare and wonderful thing in such a cynical world. I wonder how all the anti-RMS sentiment out there started.

      -Peter

  5. And again... by xactoguy · · Score: 2, Redundant

    ... do we have to say that this is exactly the kind of thing that we DON'T need? DDoSing them because you are unhappy with the way that they are doing things does nothing but to put a bad name on Linux, its users, and the whole issue in general. All you are doing is sinking to their level, rather than being mature and letting the battle be fought the way it should be, in court ( or, if worse come to worse, with torches and pitchforks in front of SCOs headquarters ;) ).

    --


    And so we go, on with our lives
    We know the truth, but prefer lies
    Lies are simple, simple is bliss
  6. Or not. by Meowing · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's been a ton of discussion of this on Groklaw today -- consensus is that either this is no attack, or their network is run by doofuses.

  7. I am willing to bet.... by overbyj · · Score: 4, Funny

    that everytime Darl is sitting on the john dropping a deuce (of course, we know that he is full of shit) and clogs up the toilet, he blames it on a DOP (denial of plumbing) attack by Linux users!

    Press release to follow.....

    --
    No trees were harmed in the composition of this; however, numerous electrons were inconvenienced.
  8. In other news by vosbert · · Score: 4, Funny

    SCO launches a lawsuit against the anonymous hackers.

  9. Ping by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    In related news, SCO caims ownership of "ping", and will licence it starting at $1000.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  10. This won't affect the Judge's decision... by sirReal.83. · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... for obvious reasons.

    Simma down, now.

  11. C'mon, /., check with the source next time! by FunWithHeadlines · · Score: 4, Insightful
    That's right, while the rest of the mainstream media happily reported whatever SCO told them to say, despite the evidence not appearing to support the DDoS story, Groklaw posted a detailed analysis of the situation. Now was it so hard for /. admins to take a quick glance over there, the source for accurate SCO news, before just posting Yet Another SCO Spin version of the story?

    Folks, if it's a SCO story, check with Groklaw before passing judgment. For every bit of FUD coming out of Linden, a blast of anti-FUD is lobbied back.

  12. dossed? by lethalwp · · Score: 2, Funny

    Are they dossed? it seems i can't connect to sco.com . Oh Wait, maybe it is slashdotted =)

  13. More SCO FUD by RobGarth · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200312101 63721614

    If it is a DDoS attack, SCO are incompetent for not blocking it. Or it is just more FUD.

  14. Self Inflicted by bstadil · · Score: 5, Informative

    Head over to Netcraft News and see how this server "died". If this is a DDOS attach I am Queen of Spain.

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
  15. You mean they reported... by frostman · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...a Slashdotting?

    Crybabies!

    --

    This Like That - fun with words!

  16. FUD by SkArcher · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is a load of rubbish. See Groklaw for a much deeper and more insightful look at what really happened, a full explanation of the technicalities of the DDOS attack (claimed as a SYN attack that took up all the bandwidth and flattened their e-mail - and yet you can still get to ftp.sco.com (on same subnet), smtp.sco.com all other XO.net fed servers. Groklaw also noticed that the machine was down well before the press release claims and that it went straight down - no hiccups or other indications of a DDOS attack, just a straight gone - switched off or unplugged most likely.

    See the netcraft stats for that little bit. If SCO make any claim that this is a DDOS, they are lying through their teeth and the evidence was collected as it happened - see the members zone at Groklaw for the raw Traceroute returns.

    --

    An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of /.
    1. Re:FUD by SkArcher · · Score: 4, Funny

      Especially since they are an enterprise scale company with a professional background in Unix(tm|c|$699) and we are a bunch of howling barbarian commie pinko liberal leftist joint smoking scum who have to steal their code to make a web worthy competitior.

      The above was humour. Laugh, damn your eyes.

      --

      An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of /.
    2. Re:FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I object to being called that, exept for the howling barbarian pinko joint smoking scum part.

      that's pretty dead on.

  17. Never Cry Wolf by soloport · · Score: 3, Funny

    More like "crying wolf", people. Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them, Second Edition?!

  18. Not a DDoS... by drdreff · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's all of those corporate Linux users beating down their door to buy licenses. Hurry and get yours today before they're all gone!

    --
    As seen on Wired: Get a free desktop PC
  19. I'm sure it's all your fault. by Dlugar · · Score: 2, Funny

    Come on, Slashdot ... putting SCO on the front page (multiple times sometimes) day after day after day ... and you don't call that deliberate Slashdotting^WDDoS?!

    I call BS.

    Expect letters from Boies and company any time now. "SCO Sues Media Giant Slashdot" the next headline?

    Dlugar

    --
    Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
  20. Probably because of kris_kringle@sco.com... by buford_tannen · · Score: 4, Funny

    This story apparently inspired some poor systems peon at sco to set up email autoresponse to the email address mentioned in the story.

    I tried it, it works. At least someone at SCO has some sense of humor.

    --
    Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
  21. Improper use of "Hacker" by gaijin99 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Launching a DDoS does not require the slightest bit of hacking. Unless downloading and using a simple program counts as hacking. The proper term to use would have been "criminal", or perhaps "script-kiddie" (though I've always prefered "script-monkey" myself).

    I expect the blatient misuse of hacker as a synonym for computer criminal in the mainstream press, but I woulda hoped that Slashdot would do better.

    --
    "Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
    1. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by hookedup · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unless downloading and using a simple program counts as hacking

      It's not like you can just download a program and have control over a pile of zombie machines. You do have to do a little bit of work. Scanning subnets, logging into machines, uploading tools, etc.. to make an 'effective' ddos net. Not just download, run, click, dead server.

    2. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by AndroidCat · · Score: 4, Funny
      Perhaps. How secure are these undead nets? (Mind you, if I got control of some spammer's zombies, I'd be tempted to turn them back on the spammer.)

      Beware the DOSferatu: The Children of the Byte, who reboot from the grave.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    3. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by bright9 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      logging into machines, uploading tools, etc.

      Zombie armies are probably most often built w/ auto-rooters -- "tools" that get passed around and modified. E.g. a script-kid may just have to specify which DCOM hole in which Service pack to attack, and then what irc server/channel he/she wants to command them all from. Then he/she installs it on joe user's 24/7 cable-connected box and lets 'er rip. Rinse and repeat 'til you've got 2,000 systems under your thumb.

      So yes, it takes a *little* work, but NO skill.

    4. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by hookedup · · Score: 4, Interesting


      How secure are these undead nets?

      Well, once someone does gain control over the machine, by way of a Windows with a blank administrator password, they set the machine policy to prompt the user to enter a pass the next time the machine is logged into. And make a different account for themselves to log back on the compromised machine. If the user doesn't freak out about the password prompt, they are all set.

      So, to answer your question, I suppose they are about as secure as an unfirewalled/unpatched windows box, since the last thing the 'hacker' will do is put a firewall on the machine for you. :)

    5. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Launching a DDoS does not require the slightest bit of hacking.

      "Computer hacking" is defined as "operating a computer in a manner inconsistent with it's designed intent". Thus a DDoS fits perfectly. It's much more accurate than your other suggestions:

      Criminal: Entirely free of content. You'd have to be more specific. Also, computer tampering is not illegal in all jurisdictions, so not every hack is a crime (far from it)

      Script kiddie: Implies knowledge about the modus operandi that you can't possibly have (without being an accomplice). Do you know the assailant is an amateur who can barely run the kits he downloads?

      Script monkey: Makes a rather ludicrous suggestion of the perpetrator's species.

      Some people would likely suggest cracker. That is not correct for all DoS attacks, because cracker (as a person, not a food) is someone who penetrates security. However, a DDoS normally involves taking over several other computers beforehand, so cracker is likely to be appropriate.

    6. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by Trepalium · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually SCO said this was a syn flood, which means it IS as simple and download and run. However, I don't believe them because asking your ISP to filter your webserver's IP over a SYN flood is pointless and stupid. You either implement anti-syn-flood measures (syncookies or some firewall based option), or you wait it out. When the flood stops, your server works again. Asking your ISP to filter just prolongs the outage.

      --
      I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
    7. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by AndroidCat · · Score: 4, Interesting
      A lot of the current ones try to spread themselves as email. (All those "security updates".) After a while they go quiet and .. wait .. for orders via whatever com channel they use.

      A lot of the emails don't make it to a system that can be infected, aren't opened by someone dumb enough, and so on. However, like the numbers involved in spamming, they just need a very small percentage to be dumb enough.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    8. Re:Improper use of "Hacker" by iocat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Bullshit. Read HACKERS by Steven Levy, or OUT OF THE INNER CIRCLE by Bill Landrith, and you'll see that "hacker" only developed its criminal connotations in the mid-1980s, prior to that it was a word that meant only "someone who worked obsessively on systems" -- not necessarily even computers. The term "cracker" has been around since the early 1980s as well (again, see OUT OF THE INNER CIRCLE).

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

  22. Re:bad image by TheLinuxSRC · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought the same thing.

    I mean, what the hell is " apparently by hackers unhappy with the company's legal threats against users of the Linux operating system" supposed to mean? I think that is a dangerous assumption. After all, it is probably Windows machines that are the 'bots, right?

  23. How do I join? by Ignorant+Aardvark · · Score: 4, Funny

    How do I enlist my computer as a zombie in the horde to attack SCO?

    1. Re:How do I join? by krray · · Score: 5, Funny

      Easy:
      ncftpget ftp://ftp.sco.com:/pub/scox/scoxdevcd.iso

    2. Re:How do I join? by metlin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dunno, read Slashdot and make sure you click all those SCO links? ;-)

  24. It's not even a very good hoax by iabervon · · Score: 5, Informative

    According to Groklaw, not only is it implausible that this is a real attack, it's not even competently done. SCO blames a SYN flood, which is trivial to ignore. Their ISP hasn't had anything to do about it. While they say their email server was down, it actually wasn't. Their FTP server on the next IP over (and on the same block of addresses) had no problems. Their internal network almost certainly isn't anywhere near their Web server, network wise, and, if it was, it would almost certainly have a firewall that's not the web server.

    It's clear that SCO's run out of technical people; not only are they faking technical problems, they can't even make up a technically sound attack on their own systems.

    1. Re:It's not even a very good hoax by gvc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      SCO's press release served its purpose. Search Google News for "SCO" and you will see headlines like "SCO attacked by Linux folk." The real news - that SCO lost in court and that SCO's financials are starting to smell - is completely pushed aside by the DOS headlines.

  25. I hear the sound of the world's smallest violin... by aquarian · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...playing for the sad souls at SCO...

  26. Sad state of affairs in general by Maestro4k · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Before I start I should say I absolutely condemn the DDoS against SCO, if there really is one happening.

    I find it quite sad that our community has to loudly distance itself from supposed DDoS attacks and such against SCO while SCO makes a total mockery of the legal system and justice in general with their current campaign. For those who may not have noticed some earlier posts, discussion on Groklaw has brought up the possibility that this isn't a DDoS, but either just idiotic network admins on SCO's part, or perhaps even an intentional takedown to *cough* allow for a nice bit of publicity on their part. Whatever the true case is (and I'm not advocating any as the real one, I'll leave that for others to decide), SCO has certainly scored some nice negative publicity towards the OSS crowd, even if the DDoS is real and the attackers have nothing to do with OSS.

    IIRC there was an earlier supposed DDoS against SCO's servers that turned out to be that the servers were just down.

    In any case, it's nice to see the /. crowd (as always) advocating fair play and not using vigilante justice. Too bad SCO doesn't seem to believe in the fair play bit.

  27. It happens by Dr.+Nnivel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While I in no way condone this, it's to be expected. SCO is pissing off a lot of people, and this is the kind of thing that is bound to happen when geeks are rather peeved. Granted, it shouldn't happen, but neither should any criminal activity. Not everybody is as mature is *cough* the /. community here, where we all shun such actions. I'm rather surprised it hasn't happened more, actually...

    That being said, SCO is probably revelling in this, even if it is genuine. In fact, DDoS is probably one of the perks to this whole thing - it makes everybody but them look bad, and they come out perfectly clean to the media. Playing the innocent little child who got their candy stolen, I dare say.

  28. Editors, please RTFA by stwrtpj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the article header:

    For the third time this year, the SCO Group's Web site came under attack, apparently by hackers unhappy with the company's legal threats against users of the Linux operating system.

    Where in the article did it say this? I certainly can't find it.

    Slashdot editors might want to RTFA before approving a post. The submitter of this one got a wee bit overzealous.

    --
    Karma: Frotzed (mostly due to the Frobozz Magic Karma Company)
  29. SCO and the powers behind it... by Dutchmaan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Look at what SCO does to the Linux community.. fractures and bickering... Destroying something that was supposed to be moral and good for all.

    One can almost feel the power of the ring at work....

  30. Perhaps Further Evidence... by weston · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work in the Canopy Group office buildings at another (non-evil) company. We're all serviced by Center7 and the last time there was the confirmed/acknowledged DDOS attack we felt it hard. Getting to hosts outside of the building was very difficult all day.

    No hiccups today. Center7 did promise last time that they could and would isolate everyone else from SCO, so there is another explanation, but...

    1. Re:Perhaps Further Evidence... by gnuadam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is interesting. Perhaps you should email pj? I'd definately go mention this over on groklaw, and give as much detail about where you work as you are comfortable doing.

      If they are lying about this, this would play into Red Hat and IBM's suits/coutersuits very well. I mean, we all know they lie to the press all the time, but something like this is just over the top.

      --
      You say :wq, I say ZZ. Why can't we all just get along?
    2. Re:Perhaps Further Evidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      Center7 did promise last time that they could and would isolate everyone else from SCO,

      Sorry, but that's really funny. Does their network switch have the words "Leper Colony" taped on it?

      YLFI
  31. New Icon by Coryoth · · Score: 5, Funny

    I would like to suggest that, once this case is finally settled, Slashdot begin using the caldera systems icon for "Laugh, it's Funny" instead of the Monty Python foot. I know I already associate that blue and red C with a good humourous story.

    Jedidiah.

  32. Re:The True Culprit by SkArcher · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ahhh, but you see the sco.com website runs on Linux...

    --

    An infinite number of monkeys will eventually come up with the complete works of /.
  33. Probably just replacing network printers by Kris_J · · Score: 4, Funny
    After printing 1 million pages of source code, anyone's network might take a bit of time to recover.

    (This would have fitted on a single CD. I think we should add environmental terrorism to the list of SCO's offences.)

  34. Improper use of DDoS - kinda by Lord+Prox · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well... pending on how one wishes to view the situation it could also be described as a "sit in" a-la what the hippies did years ago. Civil disobedience as such. Yes, I know it is not the same thing, but it is not that different.

    That being said *IF* the DDoS is coming from compromised machines without there owners permission that is criminal but if it is otherwise (read: users permission coordinated demonstration) then calling it criminal seems a bit harsh. Digital Civil Disobedience seems more accurate.

  35. suspect by sydlexic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is highly suspect that a company who's web site was felled by an ancient and easily defended 'attack' was able to so expertly and swiftly identify the cause in time to write up and distribute a press release before the close of business.

  36. It is a crock of shit and it stinks. by mcleodnine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been folowing this story all day and the last thing I expected to see on /. was a regurgitation of "facts" with a 'questionable heritage'.

    Several sites (groklaw, lwn) have already pointed out that the claims of being hacked should be viewed with a liberal ointment of skepticism for any of the following reasons;

    • SCO was full of shit on the last DDoS 'attack'
    • SYN flood? Are you bullshitting me? A corporate firewall that can't handle something as old as that? Was it a high volume attack?
    • Funny that every other network server on the same subnet was still available (ie: ftp.sco.com)
    • my personal favorite "and corporate operational traffic to be unavailable during the morning hours including e-mail, the company intranet, and customer support operations" - corporate intranet down from a DDoS?. If that means that employees can't surf jobs.com because they get ported through the same address space as their http server then I guess the GNU.Linux community has little to worry about. Anybody that dim couldn't possibly find their way to court let alone be the plaintiff in a three billin dollar lawsuit.
    --
    one better than mcleodeight
  37. SCO's Hack Attacks A Complete Lie by Korgan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is getting just annoying. As has already been pointed out, the facts point to this being another hoax. However, as not everyone else in this community knows much about Security, let me add my few years of experience in to help those who don't understand.

    I should point out, this has pretty much been covered by Groklaw already and my methods don't vary too much from those already posted by them.

    SCO claims their email and web servers are unavailable because of a DDoS attack that has also infiltrated their Intranet and affected helpdesk services as well as other internal services. If this is the case, then it is more than just a DDoS they're suffering, or they are negligent in the highest order for failing to take simple steps to ensure a risk mitigated environment for conducting business within.

    Lets start with their Mail Server.
    Everyone has a backup mail server, usually hosted by a 3rd party to ensure that if your primary mail server is offline for any reason, mail can still be delivered successfully. The fact that SCO claimed their mail servers were unavailable suggests they either failed to purchase this extremely basic service or their setup is absolutely wrong by anyones standards. The purpose of multiple MX records is for this exact situation. You start with a high priority MX record (say 10) and work your way down the order (usually in steps of +10, so the secondary is usually 20).

    Their Web Server
    Their webserver is hosted on exactly the same subnet as their ftp server. However, during this attack, their FTP server has been available to anyone thats tried to connect to it. If they were suffering a DDoS attack of the proportions that SCO claims, this server would also have been affected and taken offline. Yet this is not the case. This blows open entirely the philosophy of a DDoS attack without any of the further evidence.

    SCO has alluded to the fact that the attack is a basic SYN Flood. A very simple and old attack that has been blockable by nearly every appliance and OS for the past 3 years at least. Yet if they are suffering as they claim, then they are guilty of negligence for failing to apply patches or even configure their platforms correctly. Its very easy to turn the SYN Cookies on in Linux (sysctl isn't rocket science) and just as easy in something like a Cisco Router/PIX Firewall or a Checkpoint Firewall.

    The claims that this has adversely affected their intranet suggests that the intranet is in some way exposed to the Internet. Even more alarming is the fact that it disabled their Helpdesk services for a period as well. This would suggest that their network has absolutely no perimeter protection of any kind. The smallest flaw in a product they use could apparently be used to access their core network infrastructure. Isn't that where their source code and IP documentation are kept? I'd start getting very worried about now if I were an investor.

    Due diligence is a core principle of any company. That includes ensuring that the services relied upon are securely and properly setup and maintained. If SCO truly has been affected by an attack of any kind on the magnitued they're claiming, then they should be legally responsible for the results of their failure to perform due diligence. (However, IANAL so don't quote me on legalities, especially given I live in NZ, not the US).

    In short, the supposed attack on SCO does not add up at all. In fact, if they are being attacked this time round, they are in serious legal trouble themselves if their reports are accurate.

    I would also question why they have released this to the press as a Press Release instead of getting on with fixing the problem as quickly as possible. Also, how is it that their mail services are now restored, their FTP server never offline, yet their website remains offline? Surely, a DDoS would affect both.

    Not to mention the fact that it would affect SCOs upstream provider who, when contacted last time, saw absolutely no evidence of an attack in progress at a

    1. Re:SCO's Hack Attacks A Complete Lie by inode_buddha · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sometimes I wish I could mod someone to +10... great analysis!

      --
      C|N>K
    2. Re:SCO's Hack Attacks A Complete Lie by Trepalium · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Except, we should accept the fact that, perhaps the intention behind this wasn't to be credible to technical people. What else has happened to SCO recently, you should be asking. "RBC rethinks SCO deal" - RBC, who, along with Baystar, invested $50 million into SCO has begun looking at the contingency fees SCO will pay to their lawyers if SCO is bought out. SCO has postponed their 2003 earnings release and invester conference call to December 22 from December 8, and there's been some speculation that they will not be able to announce a profit this quarter without some 'creative' accounting. SCO lost both of IBM's motion to compel discovery, and have to turn over these 'million lines of code' that IBM has illegally copied into Linux. SCO's stock price has been dropping recently. None of these items really made it into the press in any meaningful way.

      Now we get this 'quick fix' press release that gets to paint the Linux community as a bunch of criminals and thugs. They know full well the press won't bother to check facts, and it should be enough to distract from the negative things that have been happening. They get to look like a victim in the press, and they can do so without any proof what so ever.

      --
      I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
    3. Re:SCO's Hack Attacks A Complete Lie by Korgan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      RBC, who, along with Baystar, invested $50 million into SCO has begun looking at the contingency fees SCO will pay to their lawyers if SCO is bought out.

      I agree, I find the whole RBC situation extremely amusing. Especially the fact that RBC now has veto powers over any action that could result in the legals getting 20% of any given resulting transaction. :-) That to me was probably one of the best things any investor of recent times could've done. Finally someone is making SCO stop and think before it does something. More than that, its also making SCO more responsible for any action they might take.

      They get to look like a victim in the press, and they can do so without any proof what so ever.

      This is one of the things that has bothered me about modern reporters. They no longer take the time to verify a press releases accuracy and instead build an entire article without confirming any of the facts. Its not just online press agents that do it. ZDNet/ZDTV (by extension, CNET) are also guilty of it as are organisations like TimeWarner and NYTimes (should I really go there?) ;-)

      The problem that presents itself however, is that the public rarely question anything mentioned in the media any longer. They take for fact almost any article published by someone like the Associated Press. This is something many of us have complained about.... The problem however, is those of us writing to the editors are such a minority that the editors rarely take notice any longer and just put it straight into the trash. Accountability for factual representation of the news seems to no longer matter.

      Still, what can we do? So few individuals take the time to point out the false. More people need to stand up and make the editors take notice. Then again, that would require action. Who wants to act when its so much easier to just accept whats presented to us? ;-)

      One day the truth will finally become important in the mainstream again. Sites like Groklaw (in the case of SCO) are starting to get so much momentum behind them that they can't be ignored or just brushed off as a radical wing of a minority group. When people actually take the time to point out the wrongs, it makes it easier for the journalists. <G>

  38. Payment flood by Snoopy77 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wasn't it just a flood of Linux license payments?

    --
    "She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
  39. maybe they claim to own "DDOS" too... by bleeper4 · · Score: 5, Funny

    so does that mean they can sue themselves?

  40. The truth about the "attack". by LordK3nn3th · · Score: 5, Funny

    Darl McBride, stumbling drunk (as usual) around SCO's headquarters, accidently tripped over the server's power cord.

    SCO's technicians are busy working to fix the problem.

    --

    ---
    Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.
  41. linux users? by gyratedotorg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    just out of curiousity, what do you think makes people assume that any attacks on sco are from the linux community? to me, its almost as if walmart.com got attacked and everyone blamed the mom-and-pop stores. ridiculous.

    --
    Gyrate Dot Org - "Where high-tech meets low-life"
  42. its amazing.. by Suppafly · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's amazing that they are only DoS'd during their employee's working hours.

  43. I think I know what they wanted to do by Artifex · · Score: 2, Funny
    Knowing SCO, they might try to make themselves the martyrs and use the attacks to cast a bad light on the Linux community in general.


    They probably wanted to announce at the meeting on December 22 that, under cover of this DDoS, evil hackers broke in and deleted all the evidence SCO was surely about to hand over to the court. Then, having learned from OJ and the Ramsey parents, they'd go hire a detective to seek out the evil people responsible for the death of their case.

    --
    Get off my launchpad!
  44. DDoS by unoengborg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Distributed Denial of Stock?

    SCO quicly respond by sending a quickfix pressrelease.

    --
    God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
  45. Actually, if this was real, ... by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The group(s) would be attacking all SCO boxes online rather than just a single web site. Why take down the company if you can simply make their customers quit buying their crap. No, I suspect this is just a hoax.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  46. double bluff? by another_twilight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Careful.

    There is a decent chance that their claims are designed to inflame.

    Claim the Open Source community is behind it and you get a bunch of people who have already been accused starting to think they may as well commit the 'crime' for which they are being blamed.

    Sure the claims made by SCO have always been seen to be ridiculous, from a technical POV. But their point has never been to convince the geeks. They are playing to a larger audience and seen in that light their bumbling and fumbling, technically, starts to look a little more deliberate.

    Call me paranoid, but SCO could be trying to create the incident they claim is ocurring right now.

  47. Embarrassing files missing? by Platinum+Dragon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    WARNING: I'm going to vector some rumours here. Feel free to slap them down if inaccurate, as I'm too damned lazy/tired to investigate myself right now.

    There are some rumours floating around the Yahoo SCOX message board that several directories containing Linux source code, such as patches and updates, are now missing from SCO's ftp server. Months ago, many people pointed out that SCO itself continued distributing copies of the kernel in support and updates directories on their ftp server. There is also speculation the strangely internal nature of this so-called DDoS attack may be part of an Ollie North operation to prevent certain evidence from falling into IBM's hands via discovery.

    SCO's execs need to read The Boy Who Cried Wolf a few times, and learn the lesson within. Darl, unlike Ken Lay, does not have close friends in the White House, and probably would not escape prosecution for any illegal acts being committed under his watch at SCO.

    --

    Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
    1. Re:Embarrassing files missing? by Numeric · · Score: 5, Interesting

      here is a link to the mention thread, interesting read...

      Yahoo SCOX Thread.

      --
      -- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
  48. Re:Improper use of DDoS - kinda by kalidasa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fundamental principle of civil disobedience is found in Thoreau's formulation that "Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison." An act is not civil disobedience unless the protestor is at credible risk of being arrested. For a protest to deserve the honor of being described as civil disobedience, it requires risk and sacrifice.

    Gandhi spent time in prison. As did MLK. And so did many of the serious anti-war activitists in the 60s.

    There's a second issue. SCO is not a government. There is recourse through justice against SCO. So civil disobedience is, again, not appropriate; civil disobedience is directed against a government guilty of an injustice which cannot be redressed through ordinary means.

    Those launching a DDoS against a company that's doing something stupid are risking nothing, are sacrificing nothing. They are also providing SCO with ammunition in their attempts to paint all Linux users as criminals (pirates, copyright violators, communists!). They're vandals, pure and simple, and the fact that they're vandalizing an asshole's house isn't a valid justification.

  49. Re:Bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    ir.sco.com = 170.224.5.43

    www.sco.com = 216.250.128.12

    Your posting is NOT very informative, go back to MCSE school please.

  50. Edit on main page by Zeppelingb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can we get an edit for the groklaw link on the mainpage? Anyone who just skims the headlines is going to get a very skewed impression of todays events.

  51. Is SCO counting on /. effect? by kamog · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Pinging www2.sco.com (216.250.128.33) produces a reply, and the corresponding website contains some seriously long-in-the-tooth (like, 2001) links to Caldera and Tarantella (what the bleep is that?) stuff. www.caldera.com (216.250.128.12) proper does not respond to pings or http requests, while www2.caldera.com resolves to the same long-in-the-tooth site.

    All this looks rather dodgy. Maybe they just hope to get slashdotted and then claim that this was the DDOS attack...

    1. Re:Is SCO counting on /. effect? by kamog · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Sorry about the self-followup - forgot two links of interest.

      The Age reports that Cisco routers would block the SYN flood attack SCO claims to suffer from (I think there is some discussion of this on groklaw as well). Anyways, the guys at The Age appear to have a clue.

      The second link is to the Google cache of the most recent SCO page. It takes forever to load (I wonder why), but examination of the source file reveals (surprise!) a link to Rob Enderle's anti-Linux propaganda from www.technewsworld.com...

      I think that the people reading this thread and possessing the necessary technical knowledge should store the evidence contradicting SCO's "explanations" of today's events in the case SCO claims that the information the judge demanded "got lost because of the vile Linux hacker attack."

  52. Could it possibly be... by tekspot · · Score: 2, Funny

    that Darl hung himself on the powercord from the webserver? Nah, to good to be true...

  53. Re:Ooops (must use preview button) by Geek+of+Tech · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Seeing as it's mostlikely SCO doing it themselves you were probably right the first time.

    --
    Stop the Slashdot effect! Don't read the articles!
  54. I'm of two minds... by NtroP · · Score: 2, Funny
    Huzzah! Huzzahh! HUZZAH!


    oh. Wait...

    Bad hackers! Bad! No soup for you!

    --
    "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
  55. Maybe by Catharz · · Score: 3, Funny

    They had a 3rd person connect to their 2 user version of SCO Unix?

    --
    To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom. --Scooby Doo
  56. The timing is suspicious by sisukapalli1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Something is suspicious about the announcement of a DDOS on a bad day for SCO stock (note that SCOX stock fell quite a bit today). Most likely, it is to divert attention from the real problems (investors speaking up, etc.)

    Some of the wall street lemmings will fall for this, just like many /. lemmings went on a limb claiming "oh, c'mon guys, don't let *us all* get into distepute."

    S

  57. The /. story should be updated stating the hoax... by Rams�s+Morales · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No one can fall victim of a SYN flood attack these days. You don't need a DDOS with "thousands of servers" to do a SYN flood attack. SCO's ISP isn't suffering anything related to a DDOS attack. The shutdown pattern of the SCO's servers shows that they were unpluged. Groklaw has a good disection of the hoax.

    Therefore, I would like to know what are the /. editors waiting for, in order to update the story stating it as a fraud from SCO.

    I wouldn't be surprised if SCO issues a press release tomorrow saying that the evidence they were going to show in January 5 was destroyed.

    This is just too much. I thought "evil corporations" existed only on comic books, and hollywood movies.

  58. DDOT by krbvroc1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    SCO has launched a denial of truth attack against the linux community.

  59. per groklaw: adjacent hosts are fine by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ftp.sco.com has an adjacent ip, probably on the same switch, and it is perfectly responsive. It's not a bandwidth clogging attack.

    1. Re:per groklaw: adjacent hosts are fine by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Informative
      The FTP server being up proves nothing. SCO is claiming that they are under a SYN attack, which has a relatively low bandwidth costs, and if targetted purely at their webserver and not exceeding the total bandwidth will leave the FTP site up. Basically, for those that don't know, a SYN attack works by flooding a server with requests for a new session, usually with a spoofed source IP. The server *has* to allocate some resources to this request, respond with a SYN-ACK and wait for the ACK (which never arrives). Enough SYNs (the packets are only a few dozen bytes) and the server will fall over.

      So, on those grounds, I'd be prepared to accept that SCO is telling the truth and they are indeed under a DDoS SYN attack against their webserver. However, as normal for SCO, they then go and overcook the situation and claim that their internal network and Intranet has been hit as well. The only possible way this could be the case is if they are using the same server(s) for their public web as their Intranet which is one of the dumbest possible things you could do.

      That leaves us with three possibilities:

      1. SCO is simply lying and there is no DDoS at all.
      2. They are telling the truth about the DDoS, but have exaggerated the effects in a sympathy ploy, making themselves *look* clueless.
      3. They are telling the truth about the DDoS and the Intranet, meaning they *are* clueless.
      Take your pick!
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    2. Re:per groklaw: adjacent hosts are fine by RouterSlayer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a common misconception.
      it depends what is being attacked, and how.

      A SYN flood attack *CAN* indeed "clog" the bandwidth. It's been done. Been there, seen it, move on... a flood like any other flood can "clog" bandwidth, people don't typically attack this way any more though, because the resources at the attackers side have to exceed the targets side.

      There are actually attack tools (albeit old ones) that do this, they are now obsolete, actually public at ths point (well, as public as such things get), about as public as winnuke code at this point...

      So saying a SYN flood wouldn't do this is just flat-out wrong. Because it can, and it has, and it probably will again.

      Cisco routers are actually highly susceptible to this kind of thing as well, so in another sort of SYN attack, it's possible to send very little traffic while causing ALL connections from the router to be unreachable, effectively shutting down ALL bandwidth (without actually "flooding" it). Which would appear to be a flood attack, but not be.

      So in either of the above cases, all the servers on the lan (same switch, etc) would be unreachable, that being in a true attack. But this wasn't the case.

      I notice their mail server (which the also seem to have claimed) isn't on the same subnet.

      Anyone who thinks SCO is being honest about anything with such statements is simply insane.

      I like how you misrepresent things and immediately are "prepared to accept that SCO is telling the truth". This sort of thing has to stop. They lied last time, the network admins at their upstreams seem to have claimed nothing was wrong this time either.

      Who are you going to believe? the evidence doesn't even suggest there was a real attack. Their ISP admins seem to be saying there was no attack. People looking at this, monitoring it see no evidence of any sort of attack.

      Nope, sorry, not buying SCOs BS today...

  60. Lets wait... by OneFix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If this is honestly a DDOS attack, then there's bound to be more than enough logs on the servers. If they claim this caused any problems with their discovery, they will be asked to provide backup tapes and log files.

    To destroy logs related to the attack or backup tapes that may contain evidence would be criminal at this point. If backups and logs don't exist, there will likely be inquiries on SCO's execs.

    On a personal note, I must admit that this looks "fishy", but it'll all come out in the wash...

  61. lies by Permission+Denied · · Score: 4, Informative
    www.sco.com is on 216.250.128.12

    The following machines are running currently-reachable FTP servers:

    216.250.128.7
    216.250.128.13
    216.250.128.14
    216.250.128.15
    216.250.128.16
    216.250.128.17

    I was able to download /pub/ls-lR from ftp.sco.com (216.250.128.13) 74.91 KB/s (600 Kb/s). My broadband is rated at 640 Kb/s, so the bottleneck was likely at my end. These machines are almost certainly on the same subnet and are likely connected to the same gear (SCO's subnetting is their choice, but if ftp.sco.com and www.sco.com are on different subnets, their subnet masks are 255.255.255.254 and they must have only two IPs per subnet - I don't believe this is even possible as you need a network and a broadcast IP for each subnet).

    The fact that all of these machines are reachable and that at least one of them can saturate a broadband link indicates that SCO is not having any bandwidth problems. I also performed some ICMP tests and the machine is not sending out port-unreachables, timestamp-replies or netmask-replies - these seem blocked upstream. I'm getting a little nervous sending out these funny packets as I don't want anyone to accuse me of anything, but everything indicates that the machine is completely offline. If they allowed some ICMP replies through upstream, receiving a reply would show that the machine is actually online, but somehow cannot handle TCP requests (and the problem is not bandwidth as shown, so it would have to be something wrong with the host, such as a firewall rule); if they allowed through ICMP replies and the machine did not respond whereas others on the subnet did respond, it would show that the machine is almost definitely offline unless it has a more restrictive firewall than the other machines (very unlikely given that this, as-claimed, could have been prevented with syncookies). As it stands, one can only say that the machine is very likely offline (unplugged or turned off).

    SCO's incoming mail server seems to be working fine. They only have one MX record for sco.com and it resolves to 216.250.130.2 for me at the moment. I only connected to it and saw a banner, but easy way to test this further is to send a message to an invalid address @sco.com and see if a bounce gets back. I don't want to give them an email address.

    All of this is current as of 2003-12-10 21:57, Mountain time (SCO is in Utah). Further investigation lead nowhere; thus the delay in the post.

  62. Re:The /. story should be updated stating the hoax by RobGarth · · Score: 2

    I agree. The story should be updated. Slashdot is running a story which states that SCO has been attacked, this is clearly unfounded. For the sake of accuracy and editorial integrity the story needs to be updated.

  63. Alternate theory which fits the facts. by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Early in the morning, someone was exploiting a rooted SCO corporate web server. But they tripped over an intrusion detection alarm. System/network administrators were notified.

    Per their company policy, they shut SCO's entire network off from the entire world. "Internal mail servers and other support servers were unavailable." After a few hours, they determined that the intrustion was limited to the main corporate web server. The web server was broken off from the network. Network connectivity was restored (but no longer having a web server). "The web server is under a denial of service attack."

    SCO employees begin the process of either restoring the existing web server from backup, or preserving the existing server, and bringing online a new server from bare metal. The process is expected to take at least twelve hours. An SCO executive informs at least one media outlet that they expect the problem to be resolved in some time after twelve hours. They're still working on it.

    This also fits what happened in August, when their corporate web server was unavailable for THREE DAYS. When it was brought back online, the content was reportedly changed in some areas. It sounds like an inexperienced bare-metal restore or an untested solution. Perhaps part of the web site was not retreivable via backup, and they had to recreate some sections from scratch.

    My theory, which I believe totally fits the facts, is that SCO has been rooted and does not want to admit this publicly. So the DDoS/SYN is their cover story, which is close, but doesn't fit the facts well enough to avoid suspicion.

    I would appreciate a read on this theory with some feedback postive/negative.

    1. Re:Alternate theory which fits the facts. by ocelotbob · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The problem with this theory is that it hinges on a corporation as large as SCO being fairly incompetent. SCO knows they're an enemy, and probably have hundreds of attacks on their webserver daily. Thus, it stands to reason that they should have a backup webserver waiting. Maybe last year's server that they've outgrown, maybe a spare server, regardless, a server that they can throw in while they do a postmortem on the current server. Yes, there would be downtime, but at most a few hours while they make sure everything is functioning at least well enough to serve up a static version of the site.

      Additionally, it's improbable that SCO would lose a lot of data in the event of a webserver crash. Most likely, SCO has a development webserver that they do all their testing beforehand -- any developer, programming or web, will tell you it's stupid to do development work on a live server.

      I'll agree with you that this is a coverup, but from the reports from elsewhere, this looks more like Darl et al covering up the fact that they have no evidence, and in fact, are probably going to be spending some time behind bars before all this is done.

      --

      Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses

    2. Re:Alternate theory which fits the facts. by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hear what you're saying, but I'm going to defend my view so far.

      > The problem with this theory is that it hinges on a corporation
      > as large as SCO being fairly incompetent.

      I assumed that was a given, actually. If you take them at their word, as an operating system manufacturer/distributor, and a web solutions provider, they'd have to be totally incompetent. I mean, if you believe SCO's story, they are outright admitting that they're a failure in their own core competency. Where was their improved firewall solution after the last hacker attack?

      Regarding the backups, my *feel* is that certain trees probably weren't being backed up, which can be a problem with backup solutions where you have (or you incorrectly believe you have to) name every subdirectory or filesystem to save. Or it could be outright data loss, which ended up hitting certain trees. Incompetent? You bet.

      That's the same reason why they may not be putting content changes through a development server. Only structural changes, for example.

      I know that we're having to assume a lot of incompetence, but again, at their own word, hasn't it already been demonstrated? You've got an OS manufacturer/distributor and web solutions provider who can't protect their server from the very old SYN attack.

  64. Re:Improper use of DDoS - kinda by simeonbeta2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Dude! Ever heard of "Letters from a Birmingham Jail?" One of the great pieces of american writing! I'll be mightily disappointed if my english lit. teacher lied and it was actually composed from a Motel 6...

  65. Pick Me! by freakmn · · Score: 3, Funny
    I work in the Canopy Group office buildings at another (non-evil) company. We're all serviced by Center7 and the last time there was the confirmed/acknowledged DDOS attack we felt it hard. Getting to hosts outside of the building was very difficult all day.

    No hiccups today. Center7 did promise last time that they could and would isolate everyone else from SCO, so there is another explanation, but...


    How can I contact this Center7? I want to be isolated from SCO!
    --
    warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
  66. Doubts on SCO, Groklaw in the mainstream press by hsoom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Age has an article titled Doubts cast on SCO claims of denial of service attack. It's good to see a mainstream news service not just reporting the FUD but actually digging a little deeper.

    1. Re:Doubts on SCO, Groklaw in the mainstream press by hsoom · · Score: 3, Informative
      The Sydney Morning Herald is also reporting the same story. What I found most interesting though was this comment by a person attached to the story at the Groklaw site:
      "Now, about 2 hours ago they were just copy stories of the others, mentioning that sco was hit by a denial of service attack - no link to SCO, and no hint that SCO may not be entirely above board. I emailed the reporter at the link, and very soon after the story had the extra info added."
      I think this is significant because The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald are probably the two biggest news sites in Australia. It also just goes to show that if you provide these news sources with extra information it can get through and make a difference.
  67. SCO, SCO, SCO... by Kongming · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's always about SCO. I'm still waiting to see a MS-DOS attack. Oh, wait...

    --
    (no sig)
  68. No, Rock Paper Scissors is quite alive, thank you. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Want proof?

    www.worldrps.com

    Need I say more?

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  69. Why is this news? by Scot+W.+Stevenson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even if this is a true DOS attack, why is this news? Imagine if Microsoft or Google or IBM put out a press release everytime somebody attacked their servers. If you are a big or a loud company, these things will happen. Don't whine, fix it and get on with life.

  70. Is it real? by aug24 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Check out the report on Groklaw - this could be PR fakery...

    Justin.

    --
    You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
  71. So then.... by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 2, Funny

    So then... if I've understood correctly, the SCO site hasn't been "h4x0red," it's been "h04xored..."

    --Mark
    __:-b

    --
    "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
  72. Kernel panicked and fled? by leonbrooks · · Score: 4, Funny
    they have gone from using linux/apache before the attack, to unknown/apache after the attack.

    Linux's Hypocrisy Buffer probably overflowed, so it automatically deinstalled. Either that, or the kernel panicked and left the building.

    Watch for D'ohl and co to explain that they had to replace their Linux server with UnixWare 'coz "Linux couldn't take the heat". Whackers.

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
    1. Re:Kernel panicked and fled? by fritz1968 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Watch for D'ohl and co to explain that they had to replace their Linux server with UnixWare 'coz "Linux couldn't take the heat".

      Either that or they couldn't afford to pay themselves the $699 Linux license fee. (Or is it $1,400 now?). They probably received a letter in the mail from themselves explaining that they were in violation. So, really, they didn't have a choice but to change the OS.

      --
      It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
  73. Those DDoS are stupid. by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First I realy hate to bring this up but Running DDoS for this reason is a terrorist mentality. If you create in your mind an enemy then you completely villainize them enough to justify some sort of attack. Now I like Linux and I dont like what SCO is doing but DDoSing doesn't help anything.
    THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN
    Judge: IBM do you have any evidence.
    IBM: Well we SCO got DDoS by a people who don't like them.
    Everyone: GASP!
    Judge: Well I see that SCO case is completely fraudulent and the judgment goes to the defendant.
    SCO: But...
    Judge: Slaps down his gavel.
    -----------------------
    If this did have sway in any way it would be for SCO legal advantage because they can use it to show how common the Open Source Community uses illegal means to try to get what they want.
    At best all the DDoS will do is wast some of SCO's money. but not enough to put a dent into it. Heck they probably find a Tax loophole to get the money back. Or sue the guy in the previous posts that gives out all the information to DDoS them on Slashdot.
    Come on guy think a little. This is the same way terrorist think. "Yea if I blow up this building that will get the US out of the surrounding areas." All it did was make it worse for them in their Point of View.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  74. Don't let anyone on your network participate by decoder · · Score: 2, Informative


    iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp -d www.sco.com -j DROP
    iptables -A OUTPUT -p udp -d www.sco.com -j DROP

    OR

    ipfw add 1 deny ip from me to www.sco.com

  75. "apparently" my ass by bl8n8r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are we to rule out the possibility that this is not another attempt by $CO to make the "hacker" community look childish and unprincipled? My dad could beat up Darrells dad anyday, anyway.

    --
    boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
  76. Allright, assume 2 or 3 by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If we assume that they really are under attack, then perhaps we should look at the possible motives of the attack.
    Further assume that it is a Linux person(s) even though the community as a whole came out against the first attack. Why not likely?
    • Currently SCO is losing their war. Badly. They have been ordered by the judge to produce real evidence by jan. They almost certainly can not (or will produce code that will be immeadiatly shown to have originated from a 3'rd and legal source; read as BSD ).
    • Likewise, Linux is growing leaps and bounds perhaps due to this tactic (FUD that is killed seems to help marketing).
    • If somebody wanted to really hurt SCO, they would not attack SCO's web server. They would go after each and ever remeaning SCO based server that is on-line. Find every company that is still running them and take them out until they drop SCO. Pretty soon, nobody would buy another SCO product due to fear of being able to use it.


    Ok, so, maybe it is not a Linux person.
    Instead assume it is somebody trying to make Linux ppl look bad. huummmmm.
    • Major Linux sites under some pretty crafety attacks these days. Almost certainly not by one person but by a group (it could be spammers, but more likely it is not; they have 10's of millions of easy targets).
    • SCO being massively funded by MS and Sun.
    • FUD has been turned up again like never before
    • Comparision in the press of a real OS vs. an OS that will not appear for another 2-3 years (and ppl say that the press is not beholden to a very large corporate entity
    • SCO (Boies, MS, and Sun as well) have been lying about what is happening with SCO while doing everything to make SCO look sympathtic. Witness their press release about the outcome from the recent court case, or just what daryl has said.


    Finally, assume that it is some SK that is trying to showoff. Normal situation with a site that is easy to take out and would get lots of press play.

    I can safely assume the later 2 are more probable, while the first is not likely.

    To be honest, I would also assume that SCO can be lying about being under attack.
    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  77. What about the mainstream press? by ValentineMSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'm only a simple programmer, folks. I realize that this story has been covered very well both here and on Groklaw. The next question: how do we get our side of the story (there was no DDoS attack, Darl needed to get the incriminating evidence off of the web server) out to the mainstream press? I'd like to think that, with some of the reporters out there starting to wake up, that SOME REPORTER would follow this up and print the story as it actually happened, not just a verbatim copy/paste of SCO's press release.

    It would be very amusing to see the reaction of SCO's upper management to having their bluff called.

    --
    Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
  78. Brilliant... by AbbyNormal · · Score: 2, Funny

    So after a DOS attack, Slashdot posts an article about the attack, thereby starting another attack.

    --
    Sig it.
  79. A SYN Flood? More likely by SCO. by einhverfr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Come on.....

    There are only a few possibilities:

    1: SCO's IT department doesn't know what syn cookies are and how they relate to Linux (which the DO run their site on). They evidently don't know how to configure CISCO routers in order to block syn floods either. In this case SCO is incompetent...

    2: SCO is deliberately not protecting their networks in order to draw attention to themselves.

    3: SCO is sabotaging their own networks.

    4: The ctber-attack story is completely made up and has no truth value.

    The Groklaw story is worth reading:
    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200312101 63721614

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  80. Warm the search warrants up. by frkiii · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Call me paranoid, but if their intranet was affected by this "attack", I suspect that "some things" are going to be "lost" as a result.

    IMHO, the SEC and other appropriate authorities might want to get some search warrants quick, surround SCO Headquarters and start saving some of the things that might otherwise get "lost" or "destroyed" due to this "attack".

    Regards,

    Fredrick

  81. "Apparently," or guilty until proven innocent??? by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hey FreeLinux: Learn some basics here:

    "...apparently by hackers unhappy with the company's legal threats against users of the Linux operating system."

    WHY is this apparent? The only thing that the 'unhappy hackers' have going is motive. IBM could have done it too. SCO could have done it to themselves, or just faked it entirely, as an excuse to go offline to recover from being rooted.

    Motive != guilt, especially when there are many groups with equal motives.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban