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New Battlestar Galactica - Worth a Series?
rwxJava asks: "Ok, so it finally aired! IMHO it was pretty good. The special effects were great (no major laws of physics were broken except maybe FTL travel), the characters, while drastically different from the original, were believable! After about an hour or so, I stopped trying to compare the mini-series with the original. My only complaint has to be the amount of commercials that Scf-Fi put in. I was able to put up a Christmas Tree during one commercial break. Guess the network needs to cash in on such a hyped up event! By the end, I was left wanting more! Anyone else think it is worthy of conversion to a series?" Now that you've have had a time to watch the entire 4-hour epic (does 4 hours really make a "mini-series"?), do you think your earlier comments were on target?
First, let me just say that John Olmos was correct: If you are so
dedicated to the original series that you cannot bring yourself to imagine
it any other way, then do yourself a favor and skip this miniseries. You
will only be disappointed, and you will nitpick it to death.
On the other hand, if you can bring yourself, however painfully, to
open your mind to the possiblity of a "re-imagining" of the Battlestar
Galactica concept, then I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.
It's not all wonderful. Screenwriter Ron Moore wanted
to bring a more grown-up Galactica to his audience, but he's apparantly
confused grown-up with gratuitious. Sex works much better when it's done
dramatically, instead of the "hey watch us get it on!" style that Moore
forces on us. He is perhaps striving to show us the sexual energy between
the characters, but really all it does is make us wonder when the low
quality porno music is going to kick in.
Otherwise, the annoyances are minor. The cylon space fighters,
apparantly just space-borne Cylons (a neat idea, really) come off kind of
hoakey with their red sweeping eyes. I know, I know, the eyes are really
some kind of electromagnetic pulse weapons, but it's distracting just the
same.
Okay, now on to what's good. First, and foremost, the story is solid.
Whereas in the original series we just had to take for granted that the
Cylons were the embodiment of evil, now we understand why.
The characters is also solid. Again, you'll have to get over
your preconceptions of the original series characters, and at least try
to buy in to the new ones. The hardest pill for me to swallow were the
gender changes of Starbuck and Boomer. But I actually found myself liking
the new Starbuck, although the Boomer role could have been a bit stronger.
The special effects were incredible, and proved that you really can
make space realistic, and exciting. In fact, the "no sound in space"
approach actually heightened the tension, and proved that you don't have
to dumb-down physics for the masses. Also, having the space ships use
maneuvering jets created even more exciting scenes than the normal Top Gun
stuff we're used to.
Is it worth a series? I think so. With a solid backstory, believable
characters, and an approach that doesn't assume the audience are stupid,
it could quite very set the bar for future Sci Fi.
I really, really liked the new Galactica miniseries. I thought it was realistic(within reason), dark, and gritty - just what that sort of situation would demand.
Personally, I'd like to see a series of TV movies rather than a weekly series. I think this would work better as an occasional treat, hitting the highlights of the journey, rather than trying to tell 22 stories a year.
Did they have sound in space as the ships flew by? That has always been one of my major pet peeves. At least Kubrick got it right in 2001.
Trolling is a art,
I was able to put up a Christmas Tree during one commercial break.
They were waiting for you to finish, stupid!
I saw a few scenes in the first half that didn't involve people having sex. I thought those were extraneous, and could have been removed...
Karma: Marginal (mostly due to the border around the website)
no major laws of physics were broken except maybe FTL travel
Um, how about those arcing missiles the Cylons shot out? Looked great, definately impossible.
I'm sure there are others, that's just the first one that came to mind.
--J(K) DOS is like Unix in exactly the same way that a pinto is like an aircraft carrier.
There were more good things about the mini-series than bad. Overall I enjoyed the series and found myself wishing it was on next week.
Bottom line, it was better than a lot of crap currently on TV.
Better a bunch of the rest of the crap sci fi out there. The space ships look pretty good.
I'm kind of disappointed that the robot guys (cylons?) aren't at all robotic, even at the microscopic level (according to the show).
Also, space flight doesn't work like that... but every other series I've seen has portrayed space flight as far too similar to atmospheric flight, so I guess I shouldn't bother complaining. I don't like the president woman, either.
Final verdict: yeah, make more, I'll watch it.
-Skeld
1) Sounds in space. Space ships could be heard
making "thrusting" and "crashing" noises.
2) Continual stream of stars zoom past windows
to convey forward momentum (as opposed to say,
rotation or banking). Perhaps they were
trying to reproduce one of the things I hated
in the original series.
3) Lovely handheld-style (jerky) camera moves
from space. I actually liked this (think they
did it in Firefly too), but how do you get the
cameraman from "Law and Order" into a spacesuit?
I've had my set tuned to sci-fi all this week happily watching both showings of the same episode each evening. Not only have I been enjoying the new interpretation of story but i am finding some characters substantially more/less endearing that the originals. Specifically: Apollo is just not cutting the mustard. On the flip side, the new Starbuck is every bit as fiery and troublesome as the original character. Lorne Green, move over, Adama is masterfully portrayed and conveys certain conflictions and moral jostling that were not present in Tos.
Dare I forget Voltar. Just wow. He's not only likeable but practically the star of the show. I'm still not exactly sure how this interpretation will translate as the seris progresses, but its certainly nice to have less clearcut good guys vs. bad guys.
Next week on Battlestar Galactica: Commander Adama finally gets a full night's sleep! Adama like you've never seen him before -- he's wide awake and ready for action!
Think back to 1989, about the hue and cry of Tim Burton's "Batman" with Michael "Mr. Mom" Keaton. Think especially of the reaction from the fans that saw Batman with only the Adam West version.
Sound familiar?
I liked it. I liked it a lot. I plan on rewatching the miniseries, because I believe Moore and crew left a few hints and tidbits (not unlike Season One of Babylon 5") that would be extrapolated in the future.
Let's see how much of the original story they will gleam. Cane and the Pegasus. Terra. Even the "Count Iblis" plotline.
If they play their cards right, and they use "Roswell", "Buffy", and "Smallville" as templates, I could even see a Moore revision of "Galactica 1980".
Very good, peoples. Keep going.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
That was the major question I though they did not seem to answer, or at least even touch.
I could understand a different species not liking us, and in some way, being what we might call pure evil. Hey, they're different. Species are different. Intelligence does not mean that we all get along.
But in this case, the cylons are now our computers run amok. OK, while I can deal with this change, they never then touched on why they want to kill us? Because we wanted to kill them? Why do they want to kill us now? What does it benefit them? What computational values make them _want_ to expend the resources, et al to go to war with us? They just glanced that one over, and in the end, said, hey, the cylons want to kill us, so there.
...tizzyd
Like many, I had fond memories of the original.
Like many, when I got a copy and started watching it for the first time since I was a child; I found the original to be very bubble-gummy and not as good as I remembered it. The same thing happened with Robotech.
I read several artciles and several points of view on the miniseries before it aired - and I decided to reserve judgement...
The 9/11 influence (which the producers say is there on purpose) was very present - it was much darker than I expected. The long leadup and character development before the actual attack got you attached and into the story so that the destruction didn't feel like a backdrop, but a very major event.
Production values were high, and the effects were great... and it was just enjoyable.
In my book, this blew sci-fi's attempt at Dune out of the water. I feel bad for everyone who wanted the original to continue - but I myself think I'd enjoy a series of This version of BG better than a continuation.
Hopefully, though, they will instead do a series of, uhm, mini-series of this - or the occasional movie. I say this because EJO and some of the other leads probably wouldn't go for a full series, And, because with a full series it would be too easy for it to become a new-planet-every-week serial as opposed to having the scope this mini series had.
man is machine
The mini-series is worthy of a show, with plenty of potential plot lines and hooks to follow and explore.
I only hope that the "Boxey thread" will end quickly, with that character's death at the hands of the Cylons in the first 5 minutes of the first show of the series.
Why do sci fi show creators feel compelled to include the cute kid character in their space operas? Won't they ever learn that we HATE these characters?
---anactofgod---
---anactofgod---
"Equal opportunity swindling - *that* is the true test of a sustainable democracy."
...Cow. Wonderful wonderful series. Usually I roll my eyes at the "tough girl" type of lead character, but Ms. thingy managed to convince me. She threw punches like she knew what she was doing, and was sensitive enough to be believable, yet tough and uncaring enough to root for.
The tension between Father and Son was believable. The only thing I didn't like was the new "president" ordering a military ship to turn around. That was SO not believable. Had I been in charge, she would have "accidently" found the way to the nearest airlock....
Basically, Sci Fi took out all of the cheesy elements from Galactica and kept all of the story that was cool and worth keeping.
The space battles were great, with better 'physics' than in most sci-fi space stories, and the acting, except for Apollo, who always looked like he was sporting a suppository, was very solid. Olmos did a great job of realizing Adama.
There was only one problem: Tricia Helfer as Six. Uuhhhmmm. If she were a Cylon, well, I'd want to be conquered. Hard.
Other than that, the only problem I had were with the different "models" of Cylons. I'd assumed that by different models the show was alluding to different configurations meant for different purposes. I hadn't realized that same models meant identical appearance. That was goofy. And why only twelve? The Cylons can travel faster than light, launch completely covert attacks on an advanced civilization, but they can only think of twelve different models for themselves?
But all right. I enjoyed the series so much that I can forgive that and look past it, hope they figure it out.
Of worthy mention also was Mary McDonnell's performance as the 43rd-in-line for succession to the presidency. She gave a wonderfully restrained, but nicely authoritative performance that balanced out Adama's hyper-masculine, scarred-up face. Their final negotiation, and her lines during that meeting, were great writing.
Support this show! Support quality scifi! Keep it on the air or all we'll have to look forward to on TV is reruns of Twilight Zone and more of Trish & Ryan's fucking wedding, or whatever their freakin' names are.
Chr0m0Dr0m!C
It was hinted at. I think what it boils down to is that they got religion. I'm serious. 6 makes refers to her "God" early on and the other Cylon they found in the arms depot goes on to talk about what if God had stopped giving souls to humans and started giving them to other more worthy creatures. An excellent direction if you ask me, it allows all sorts of bizzare and seemingly illrational behavior for a group of robots.
*Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.*
"Frack" was the f-word replacement in the original series, 25 yrs ago. Just another small carryover from days gone by. :P
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
In that regard, the 'Wing Commander' games and movie were better, in that the mass driver cannon were one of the most effective weapons if you could hit with them -- but they sucked energy to run. However, in Battlestar Galactica, it appeared that for small-craft weapons you pretty much had a choice between missiles and some kind of plasma-in-a-magnetic-bottle weapon. For missiles, a kinetic-kill system is kind of pointless -- even air-to-air missiles today don't rely on the missile itself actually hitting its target -- so a high-explosive or small nuke warhead is what you'd expect to see.
I expect that we're never going to get told why neither side uses kinetic-kill systems for the fighters' primary weapons, although I would guess that an energy weapon will have a point at which the 'projectile' dissipates; a kinetic-kill weapon in space would keep going, producing widely-ranging hazard zones from old battles.
Funny, I always though Niven's "tanj" was plausable and seemed right for what it meant. Orwell used "newspeak" to good effect and Clockwork Orange was almost completely written in invented slang.
Do you honestly believe that our language is going to stay fixed in stone? What's so foolish about using lingustics as a plot device?
Those who complain about affect & effect on
The advance press for the mini-series really made me worry, so much so that I almost decided I would not watch. Hearing that Starbuck would be a woman struck me as modern-day Hollywood political correctness with a very heavy hand. Learning that the Cylons would indistinguishable from humans just seemed like a way to save money, since there would be no costumes.
But I did watch, and I am glad I did. I think it did a very admirable job of respecting the first series while taking the basic premise and making it edgier and somewhat thought-provoking. The dialogue was far better than I expected; in fact, there were only a handful of "cheese" moments in the four-hours series. But even those potentially dreadful moments were rescued by very solid performances from the actors.
I have to say that Sci-Fi did a very admirable job converting my skepticism into anticipation. I would like to see more.
Remember Cylons were made of chrome, the lasers would have just been reflected! Mass driver cannons are just the thing for those mirrored punks!
Definitely worth a series, IMO.
--
Power to the Peaceful
I mostly liked it. I felt that the pacing was a bit slow in spots. I mean let's face it, the entire earth is being bombarded with nukes, everyone you ever knew is being turned into ions, and for the most part people seem to be placidly going on about their way, and the cameras aren't really focused on any of _that_.
I mostly thought that the battle scenes were excellent though, but with one irritating fautlt. The "whip-left then zoom in camera" moves. I remember seeing this kind of camera move in Attack of the Clones, where they whip the camera and then zoom in on an assault craft, and in that context I thought the camera move was terrific. It lent a sort of "hand held camera, battlefield realistic" feel to the shot. It was kind of neat to see a similar shot in Battlestar Galactica.
But it was relentless! Literally every sequence had a camera move that looked like this. It got to be ridiculous. Tone back the camera moves a bit, and when you do use camera moves like that, it will have even greater impact.
As for the rest, liked Adama, liked Starbuck, liked the President, not fond of Baltar and his subplot, the cloud-which-kills-Cylons was stupid, the idea of Cylon infiltrators is interesting but could go horribly awry later.
Overall, at least it was better than Encounter at Farpoint or The Naked Now.
There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge.
I've seen a lot of what made DS9 the best Trek ever in Galactica: shades of grey. While Picard was lily-white, Sisko engaged in back-stabbing, brutality and (otherwise unknown in Star Trek) self-doubt. Anyhow, this argument has been well-hashed out here and elsewhere about Trek.
.01%, and yet we're still treated to light-hearted B.S. with Boxey and that loveable rogue (ugh) Starbuck. The new Galactica shows people how they would really be: frightened, depressed, and desperate.
What puzzles me watching the new Galactica is how I ever accepted the delivery of the premise of the old series. I mean, the premise lays out 99.99% of the human race has just been brutally slaughtered, and things don't look good for the remaining
Furthermore, as much as I loved John Colicos, the new characterization of Baltar is far more complex. Baltar seems to be a right-bastard, but one who realizes that he is and wishes (vainly) that he was not. Resigned to his nature, he's looking to cut the best deal he can.
They'll undoubtedly lose Mary McDonald before the end of the mini. This show kicks the crap out of anything else sci-fi has; I dearly hope that they chill on the pointless sex scenes, relax on the zoom-focus fx shots, and make this a damn series.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
Interesting Characters. The characters actually came off as human, as opposed to the goodie-two-shoes of Star Trek or the one-sided archetypes that plagued most of B5's run or the good-evil simplicity that exists in, well, George W. Bush's world. People do stupid, self-destructive things for delusional or illogical reasons, so it's nice to see that reflected. One event sums it up nicely: In just about any other series, the XO wouldn't have fished that bottle of booze out of the trash.
Excellent ship combat. The part where the Galactia climbs out of the nebula to cover the armada's retreat was excellent on a couple of levels. First, it wasn't just well rendered but also well filmed, by which I mean the staging and the "camera" positioning where very well done. I also liked the approach to combat -- too many series treat their huge capital ships like WW2 dogfighters.
Acting. Olmos and Laura Roslin carried the day, but the rest of the cast was competent, too. This is another one of my beefs with certain other series (coughBab5cough) where some of the cast couldn't act their way out of a paper bag. Granted, they were often bit, guest or supporting parts, but that didn't break the illusion any less.
The only part I didn't like so much was Starbuck. I don't mind that they made her a woman, but really I felt as if they'd written the role and her lines for a man and then changed a few details at the last second. She was believable in the cockpit (her "Nothing but the rain" comment was one of my favorite lines of the series), but had a hard time pulling it off elsewhere. I blame the writing for this.
Gah, that's a long-winded way of saying "thumbs up", eh?
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
One thing that really stood out for me were the costumes and sets. I'm so tired of sci-fi costume and set designers making all costumes out of woven mylar or whatever shiny fabric. Then they make these elaborate CGI cities with spiraling towers and wispy skyways. Honestly, who really believes the future is like that? DS9 tried to break that mold, but failed as miserably as most other sci-fi. The station was supposed to be a seedy marketplace, but instead everyone ended up wearing the same style freshly-laundered jumpsuit but in slightly different colors, maybe with a sash or a hat or something.
BG actually had believable costumes. The characters looked like they were wearing regular comfortable every-day clothes, but there were enough subtle design changes to make it clear that they weren't on Any Street USA. The buildings just looked like regular buildings. It just helped add to the overall experience and I wanted to give a nod to those designers who finally Got It Right.
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
Go get the Torrents if you want to watch these shows.
As I write this, part 1 has ~250 seeds and part 2 has ~300 seeds.
wheee
sig? uhh, umm, ok
I'm surprised more discussion hasn't concerned the differences between the allegories of the old show and the new one.
The original came from writers who were mixing the experiences of WWII (pre-war II pacifism, Pearl Harbor, the Holocaust) with Cold War fears about preparedness and the threat of an "evil empire." (the cylons served much the same purpose as the original Klingons in the original Star Trek - stand-ins for the Communist threat)
The new series has a completely different set of themes - civilian authority over the military, over-reliance on technology, etc.
For me, it works. The writers were smart enough to use the old show as a launching point with dealing with contemporary issues.
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
Well, yes, if by Terminator you mean Every Sci-Fi story since the invention of the adding machine. Seriously though, the basic concept of machines rising up against their masters has been done a lot. I know the doctor fought some computers round about 1966. And computers were the ultimate enemy in numerous original star trek episodes.
But yeah, not exactly a ground breaking concept.
i don't like my old sig.
The original Battlestar Galactica had landing bays in its two long "legs." This was very strategic, as the Cylons would sometimes crash into the bays in order to temporarily prevent the fighters from landing. The new Battlestar Galactica also has landing bays in its "legs", BUT they are now open on both ends. Conceivably a fighter could now land by approaching the ship from either direction.
Or maybe Cylons are just cheaper if you buy them by the dozen.
And what WAS the purpose in this new version? Was there a goal? Or is it just to survive?
Why not watch it and find out (Sunday night, 7pm-11pm)? It's not like watching a different version of something you like will suck out your soul or something. Don't expect this to be the full Battlestar Galactica story - the miniseries ends at the start of the fleet's journey. The topics you seem to want to see explored were only introduced in the miniseries, but everything seems to be there (I've only seen a few episodes of the original series, so I can't tell if it will be up to your satisfaction). The religion is presented differently in the new version, but you'll have to wait until the end for most of that (or just flip to SciFi at around 10:30pm on Sunday if you want to skip all the character development, battle scenes, moral dilemmas, and sex scenes).
If nothing else, at least watch it before complaining about how horrible it is compared to the original, especially if you're going to bring Galactica 1980 into this...
The original series (lamely) stole from the stale "evil robots want to wipe out the human race," completely without motivation other than they're "evil." The new series is more of a "Frankenstein" premise, where a life form rises up against its creator, and possibly like Frankenstein's monster, we will find ourselves feeling sympathetic towards these Cylons.
Besides, how can a stupid robot dog be cool? One of the most inexcusable sci-fi characters ever! Give me a break, or give me sexy Number 6 at least...
And I'm confused. The humans are supposed to be descendants of the Lords of COBOL correct? Does that mean they are dinosaurs?
Why watch it? I intentionally didn't watch it Monday and Tuesday because I had my doubts and knew they'd replay it a dozen times (like they did with Taken). And why would I watch it Sunday now that many people here on Slashdot have confirmed those doubts?
The religion is presented differently in the new version, but you'll have to wait until the end for most of that (or just flip to SciFi at around 10:30pm on Sunday if you want to skip all the character development, battle scenes, moral dilemmas, and sex scenes).
The sad part is that I'd have to wait so late in the program to actually get something I'd want to watch.
It really seems to me that this new Battlestar Galactica is to the Battlestar Galactica franchise what Episodes I and II (and probably III) are to the Star Wars franchise. But at least the new Star Wars crud doesn't act like the real Star Wars trilogy never existed.
I would have been far more interested in watching this new version of Battlestar Galactica if it happened, well, say 25 years later than the real Battlestar Galactica? Apollo and Starbuck could be older men--perhaps the original Apollo (Richard Hatch) would now be fleet commander since Adama (and Lorne Greene) are both dead, and maybe Starbuck would now hold Colonel Ti's position. And you could introduce a whole new line of warriors, plots, special effects, twists, etc. That would have been GREAT. You get a tie-in to the real Battlestar Galactica, don't alienate the original fans, and still can do your new stuff with young, new actors.
But to just pretend the real Battlestar Galactica never happened and just do a complete re-do is absurd. People grudgingly tolerate Episode I and II and III... But what if George Lucas then said, "Well, we're going to redo Star Wars, Empire, and ROTJ using the actors we've groomed in I, II, and III. No more Harrison Ford playing Han Solo, now Han Solo is going to be played by Jennifer Lopez. Oh yeah, by the way, Han Solo is now a hot lady." That's basically what we're talking about here with the new Battlestar Galactica.
They did a re-do when a continuation would have been much, much better. Unfortunately, if the new BSG did/does well then they'll probably want to launch a series based on the new BSG. If it does poorly they'll probably think "Well it was cancelled after one season in the 70's and didn't do well in 2003, so I guess it's just a failure." Either way we won't get to see a continuation of the real Battlestar Galactica. :(
... was probably either R.U.R. or Frankenstein, depending on your definition of a machine.
I'm on the edge of firing back with a "Look, you didn't even watch the show, how can you possibly comment on it?" But then realized that you sound just like I expected to sound had I not watched it.
I approached it from the old-school view and expected to truly hate it and consider it worse that Galactica 1980. However, I was completely shocked to "hear" myself thinking, an hour into the first episode, "Wow, this is even better than Galactica 1978!!" And coming from me, that's one hell of a compliment. I was only 10 when Galactica 1978 came out, and was so into it at the time that it was nearly religious. I always liked it even better than Star Wars!
So, of course, after seeing the Galactica: Lowdown preview on SciFi, I was ready to puke in disgust. The preview show made it seem terrible. Starbuck was a girl, Baltar seemed really gay in the previews, and Apollo was a big whiner.
However, after actually seeing both episodes in the micro-series, I am just drooling for a series, and massively impressed with the level of thought that went into Galactica 2003.
Without seeing it, I would be totally, absolutely agreeing with you - what a big piece of shit, worse than Galactica 1980 (Minus the last episode where Starbuck returns) and they never should have made it.
However, I am happy to tell you, that if you sit down this Sunday, when they run both episodes back to back, and just check it out for what it is, you will be quite impressed. Sure, there's a lot of T&A, but it doesn't eclipse the story - there's a really good story there, and as weird as it is for such a Galactica 1978 fan as I am to say such a thing, I think the new version is far more solid and intriguing. I'm also thinking that if I saw Galactica 2003 when I was 10, I probably wouldn't have understood it.
Go ahead, bite the bullet and watch it. Hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised like I was. The preview show and the advertisements for it did it no justice. You've got nothing to lose but four hours, it's worth it I think. Enjoy! I'm curious what you say after actually watching it, I'm still amazed that I not only liked it, but very much approve of it now!