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MandrakeSoft Publishes Support Policy
joestar writes "MandrakeSoft has posted a statement about its product support policy on its website: 'At a time when some of the established Linux companies are turning away from their Open Source roots and progressively abandoning full-time commitment to Open Source Software, many people have asked MandrakeSoft to clarify its position regarding product-lifetimes and its Open Source development model.' As a result, this interesting reading provides 8 Golden Rules that lead Mandrake Linux development and product support lifetime. This certainly makes MandrakeSoft one of the most 'Open Source' Linux companies, and all Linux companies should maybe think about releasing such a statement."
Those 8 Golden Rules are quite a good deal for only $699.
Trolling is a art,
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
These guys must have the best pub ever! Where did you say they were based again?aterr - an open source threaded discussion board.
SCO, are you listening?
this is my ideal of REAL OPEN SOURCE. they give away everything (except the proprietary stuff) and give away support. and they still make money. way to go
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
A download version of Mandrake Linux, consisting entirely of Open Source software, will continue to be released, provided without cost, and supported.
This is great news in my opinion. Any company that won't offer a "preview" of their product (like ISO's of a downloadable version in this case) will never earn my bucks. This is imperative if they hope to get me to join the club, buy the boxed set, etc. Besides, what I really want is a DVD so I don't have to swap CD's, so if I like the ISO's enough, there is a fair chance I will buy their power pack and get the DVD.
Four >0 posts, two of which are moronic SCO comments. Is anyone else nostalgic for the days of All Your Base Are Belong To Us?
Don't you, for one, welcome new jokes?
welcome to last weeks news
We will test a release candidate at least 3 days before releasing it from Cooker.
Golden rule number 10?
We will not take a release candidate, not bother to patch existing bugs and then just rename it the release.
That's nice, but it's still not a Social Contract
They are making vague indications that they might do what Debian have been doing for just a little while now?
Martin Brooks / Slayer99 #linux / UIN 2178117
"2) Product lifetimes are not hidden
A product lifetime table for all major MandrakeSoft products is publicly available on the Mandrake Linux website. For example, the Mandrake Linux 9.2 Download, Discovery, PowerPack and ProSuite editions will be supported with core updates until March 30, 2005. "
Why they didn't provide the link to the table I have no idea, but after several minutes (way to damn long) of searching here it is:
Product lifetimes
They sure did a good job of hiding it in my opinion. If this is something they are actively marketing, why don't they have a huge link on the front page?
Open Source Time and Attendance, Job Costing a
It is still early in this companies lifetime - so it remains to be seen if they will keep to their own rules. The fact that they published the rules is indeed a heartening step in the right direction. I hope that other distros follow suit, especially in the category of product lifetime. If Mandrake can follow these rules, they become a more attractive alternative to the jaugernaut that is RedHat, and Suse. This is especially so for corporate rollouts where EOL is important and so is ease of installation. As the "linux market" becomes mor mature each vendor will have to carve out a niche. Mandrakes may be "Easy to install and our support lasts longer than your computer". Refreshing in these days of "rental OS" and forced upgrades.
AngryPeopleRule
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
Can I get OEM Suport for Mandrake products through Support/Service providers like Sun, HP, Dell etc?
Most large corporation like to have just one support contract from one major service provider (sun, dell, or HP etc). They don't want to manage several contract for the data center equipment.
One thing I like about RedHat is: OEM support for RedHat products is available from Sun and HP.
Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Please, choose either the "Free beer vs. Free speech" option, or the "Gratis vs. Libre" option, not both.
-3Suns
~~~~
The Revolution will be Slashdotted
You're right, it isn't a statement that can be legitimately compared to Debian's statements. That would be because Debian is not a company.
I _love_ Debian. This laptop I'm writing this on is running Debian (Thinkpad 570, -unstable, to be precise.) One of the big wins with Debian is precisely that it can make such a social contract. Companies cannot, and stay viable.
That Mandrake is willing to go this far is a wonderful point for them, and we should applaud them.
I'm vaguely reminded of a time in college when I was lambasted for only offering a couple of hours a week at a charity. When I pointed out that dedicating more time would likely result in me flunking out, thus losing my loans, thus moving somewhere else and not being able to give a couple of hours a week to the project, I was ridiculed for lack of dedication.
I forget what 8 was for.
one of the sales pitches for the powerpack version is:
"9. Compatibility: run Windows and Mandrake Linux on the same computer."
and a picture of vmware running is shown. i would buy it in a minute if it came with a copy of vmware.
but, *sigh*, it doesn't.
how can they plug this as a benefit if it can't do it, or in this case, for only a limited time?
Someone please call that number and see what it is. I can't wait to find out what kind of dial-a-porn is current on /.
Although there may be some point to this statement in these times of SCO legal farces, these are things I assumed about linux before I began learning to use it. Personally, I'm a redhat 9.0 guy at this time, but mandrake is also in my possession. Other than liking beer, I'm not sure this says anything new to me about their comany, besides, these are some pretty general statements, and we all know about the obscure boobie-trap clauses of software licensing. Not that these guys are about to set you up.
[Please sign here]
> Why they didn't provide the link to the table I
p hp"
> have no idea, but after several minutes (way to
> damn long) of searching here it is: (...)
Did you read the statement?
"Additional information is located at:
# The home of the Mandrake Linux project.
# The home of the "Cooker" community.
# Mandrake Linux's Wiki for Cooker
# MandrakeSoft products
# Official MandrakeSoft product lifetime table
http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/productlifetime.
All your GPL are belong to us.
Feel better?
The club has three pricing levels, each with slightly different benefits. What I get from the club is their community RPMs, and discussion boards. Silver members get DL access to their PowerPack ISOs for free as well. Club members get to help shape what goes into future releases, and have early access to Mandrake RPMs of new releases. Mozilla, NVIDIA Drivers, etc. Don't see an RPM you want, vote for it, and someone will probably generate it.
Anyway, if you think that MandrakeSoft is doing right by the Linux community, this may be a nice way of sending them some cash, while getting a little more use from the distro you're probably already using.
... if you include Fedora Core as a Red Hat product, with the possible exception of #3 (no change in product lifetime).
#1 - Software updates for all supported products. Note that anything older than Mandrake 9.0 is already not supported, and therefore they have no committment to provide updates.
#2 - Product lifetimes not hidden. The same is true for Red Hat, or at least it has been for the past year. The EOL of the 7.x series was announced way back in March or April, and was very easy to find.
#3 - Product lifetimes will not change. This one they may have on Red Hat. I don't remember the old lifetime for RH 7.3 or 8, but I did expect it to be longer.
#4 - Free as in libre and as in beer. True if you include Fedora Core - and Red Hat reps have gone on record saying that RHEL would have no future without the free distro.
#5 - GPL code. Same is true for Red Hat's installer, config and other tools. They're picky about trademarked names and logos, but all the code is open source.
#6 - Open source development. Mandrake Cooker was there first, but Fedora has picked up the same model.
#7 - Free Support. Note that they specifically mention "community-supported MandrakeExpert.com" - so Mandrake itself isn't pledging to provide anything more than the forum for other people to provide support.
#8 - Mandrake listens to you. OK, this one they may have too. On the Fedora Core lists RH seems to be responding to people, but there's always the "faceless corporation" side of things. This point could easily start a flamewar, so I'll keep out of it.
i'll bet you're still waiting for hurd, too.
...will mod you down, but your post has made my day, thanks!
It's not that I don't believe you, but why on earth would anyone want that?
I would think that they would want to talk *directly* to the person who will fix the problem, (RedHat, Mandrake, whatever) rather than try to explain what's wrong with their Linux distro with some phone-jockey from HP or Dell.
I know in all the situations where I've had to have a problem resolved, the first two or three people I've had to talk to have been *utterly* useless to the point of wasting my time.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
I agree.
Do bussiness with the good guys.
If you, in your bussines, have need for support. Where would you go? To the guy who fscked you (redhat) or the guy who is giving away goodies (mandrake).
RedHat might not have fscked anyone. (except me. for I feed fscked)
and Mandrake might not be angels.
But as a general rule. If you like the ethics of a company. Use their services when you have a choice.
There is no excuse for a charity to belittle what you give them. Seriously, a bunch of people giving a few hours a week can accomplish a lot. Sounds like you should have found a dif. charity rather than that $hit-F*cked one to give your valuable time to. I am sure some other group would have gladly appreciated it.
Note: Anon Coward post because I wanted to moderate in this discussion as well.
Obviously targetted at ideologues angry at Red Hat, this is a lame marketing ploy by Mandrake to rally True Believers in another attempt to sell product.
Nothing new is announced here. Mandrake -- a good distribution -- is simply engaging in a bit of transparent posturing.
Open source entails no obligation by any individual or any company to make their product available gratis. If it does, it will be the death of open source. Mandrake can continue to attempt to make a profit selling the same product it is also giving away, but lot's of people consider that to be an incredibly stupid business decision.
Open source does not obligate a business to provide support for a product any longer than it wants to, regardless of how angry that might make some people. Nothing that Red Hat released as open source has been withdrawn.
Open source is commonly touted as software that can be supported even if the company selling it goes away. So, then, why are different standards applied to the company known as Red Hat? Red Hat users have the source. Support it yourself, OK? Isn't that what open source is all about?
Red Hat has no ethical obligation to support any of its products for any longer than it wishes to, and assertions to the contrary are hypocritical and contradictory.
The primary ethical obligation of a business is to turn a profit. That's what Red Hat chose to do, and that is exactly what Mandrake is doing with this self-serving advertisement.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
...'cause I like the quote...
May I remind you that irak is currently occupied by America. It will probably stay that way for a long time. But as long it's America it's ok, right? As long as you get your oil.
Next time, clean up your israel mess before starting another war.
Right now, my number 1 worry is wether KDE will keep being Mandrake's default desktop.
The development of recent events seems to indicate Gnome will replace KDE in SuSE.
I'm concerned.
Ask any MBA student on day one of classes: what is it that any company must do to survive? Of course, the answer is "profit." If you're asking, 'What about charities and non-profits?," then realize that even they rely on someone's profits. So the question for Mandrake, which has struggled mightily with finances in recent times, is whether a 5-year product life means a great deal when the company's welfare over the next 24 months is itself an issue. I like Mandrake and hope they will do well; I wonder, however, whether they have the teeth and bones, like RedHat, to profit sufficiently to improve and maintain their product whilst paying their developers, managers, accountants, et.al., a decent day's wages.
It's only funny until someone gets hurt. Then, it's hilarious.
...where the Philistines illegally invaded and persecuted the Jewish people thousands of years ago, and now refuse to acknowledge this atrocity?
Was anyone else like me and said "hey this is great!" and rush off to support MandrakeSoft, only to find their purchasing options confusing... and mostly expensive?
I want something like Red Hat's advanced workstation product. Which one do I buy? Do I have to drop $200 USD? This free Linux thing is getting quite costly, strangely as that sounds. I probably won't ever want to spend more than $50-60 on a Linux distro, so what can I get with that? And what is the product name?
This is a major difference. Red Hat did not announce EOL for their 7.x and 8 versions until well after they were released. In other words, those installing 7.x when new really did not know when support would end. Many of us ASSuMEd that they would follow historical patterns and continue to receive updates for at least 2 years. The EOL announcements came as a shock: Red Hat 8, 7.3, 7.2 and 7.1 support all end simultaneously. That should give you a clue that something changed drastically. This should also concern SUSE users: while they informally maintain a 2 year support cycle, SUSE could theoretically "do a Red Hat" and shorten their support.
Officially even now Red Hat has no exact product lifetime cycle for their non-enterprise line. Red Hat Linux no longer exists: it's only Fedora now. What is Fedora's support lifetime? "Updates will be available for two to three months after the release of the subsequent version". How often will we see new versions? "Approximately 2-3 times per year". So Red Hat fuzzily commits to a supported lifetime of 6-9 months. That is a ridiculously short (in the worst case) support cycle, especially if you like to wait a while for a new release to work out its bugs. Not only is it short, but it has a 50% fuzziness margin. I would not call that an obvious product lifetime. (I know about the Fedora Legacy people -- still getting organized -- and Progeny, but those are independent efforts and not a Red Hat commitment).
Mandrake, on the other hand, commits to 18 months of base updates. The lifetime of its desktop updates is only 12 months, but base updates (servers, kernel) is 18 months. No ifs, buts or maybes: 18 months. You have a hard number. Moreover, it's double Red Hat's best case.
This is a company, taking responsibility and trying to help people out.
Who could say something bad about this? I know its not "original" (debian, gentoo, etc), but as far as I know, it's the fist COMMERCIAL distro to do this.
Every bit of this can be applied to slackware.
This is simply the base ideals for any company/group that has a clue as to what linux is about, nothing more.
Kudos to them for publically saying that, but all of those reasons are exactly why I trust slackware only for my servers... Although Mandrake is my choice for laptops and desktops cince redhat's change.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
In some ways, it's better. The Debian social contract makes no time commitments on updates. It could be that Debian's support is so long because it takes them so long to get a new stable release out. On the other hand, Mandrake explicitly commits to 18 months of base updates. That's a solid commitment for those of us who want to put off upgrade hell.
that people always seem to bash the companies that stay true to their roots.
:P
sure, I might not like mandrake linux all that much
but, it does offer a gateway to a brand new user to linux, and they havent lost the focus of linux and tried to become the next monopoly of linux. (like redhat is trying to do)
someone told me once that linux is all about standards, and everyone must follow them. if that were the case, linux wouldnt exist today, it's true that it's all about standards, but standards people set themselves, not set by some random person and everyone obediently follows.
with linux, people agree on something that will make everything work right and it works.
but my point is, look at sco, look at redhat, look at suse and others, more concerned on making the almighty dollar over making advances. which will be their downfall. sadly, the only public face for linux atm is redhat.
However, even though mandrake has a bad rep among most linux users (mainly it being a "n00b" system) it's pretty noble in what it's doing, it's created a gateway for a user to venture forth from.
only reason I dont like it is because of the bloat, which I had to manually remove.
but, still, it's a good system in general, and their attitude is good. that's what counts.
and lindows.. only thing I can say in their favor is that they gave microsoft one good kick in the pants over the lindows/windows name. and you can tell microsoft's still upset over that because they're trying to go to 3rd world countries to get back at lindows. otherwise, lindows' software sucks.
still, I applaud mandrake on this, more companies need to keep that attitude, making "trial" isos of free software doesnt make sense.. at all. I bet in a few years, we'll be mocking redhat instead of sco over similar shit.
who knows.
anyways, remember what they say, if you dont like it, do it yourself.
Even for a publically owned company.
It's the goal pursued within ethical constraints.
The shareholders are the employers. No employer can ethically oblige you to be unethical, just as a soldier is not obligated to obey an unlawful order. Nor can a coach ethically require a team member to cheat in sports. Profit does not trump other ethical requirements.
Sure, the officer of a public company has an obligation to do right by the shareholders, but only to the extent that other obligations aren't shredded.
This sounds really...sound. Pretty reasonable, too. I can't see anybody supporting all releases forever, but I like the predictability of not revising the life downward. Everybody should do that, and I see some claims that others do. Good for the others.
Other especially interesting bits: the free support forum. I willingly grant that nobody can support freeloaders extensively, but providing a website where the freeloaders can support each other is pretty cool. Bandwidth & server maintenance aren't cheap.
Hmmm, I happen to like Mandrake, and use it on 5 systems. What their government does is their governments concern (re: the French.) And, as a funny historical side note to your comment ...they will look back to the moment they threw their support behind a tin pot dictator and basically shitted on the idea of people living free from oppression.
You do realize that, a few decades ago, the United States of America actually "...threw their support behind..." Iraq (and it's "tin pot dictator") with weapons, training, and intelligence during the Iran/Iraq war?
With your pathetic RAH-RAH pseudo-patriotic post (AC, of course), you give the impression that we should Boycott anything and everything Italian, after all, they supported Hitler. Boycott anything and everything Japanese, after all, they bombed Pearl Harbor. Boycott anything and everything English, after all, they tried burning the White House. Boycott anything and everything insert any country in the world here because ALL government at one point or another does monumentally stupid shit.
So you just go ahead and fuck off with your ridiculous boycotts, and eat your "freedom" fries, and I will happpily continue using my "freedom" distro.
For those who describe their systems as 'boxen', do you order multiple 'boxen' of corn flakes also?
no not really. their support policy was not as clear or accessible
as they wanted, and RedHat brought awareness to the situation.
so they decided to make it clear and take a strong stand,
and let people know about it. get over yourself.
btw, wtf is a self-serving advertisement ?? is that like a slashdot geek ? military intelligence ?
For example, the Mandrake Linux 9.2 Download, Discovery, PowerPack and ProSuite editions will be supported with core updates until March 30, 2005
Maybe it's not "new", but they have published an update policy that blows Fedora *cough* beta testers *cough* out of the water, and provides some degree of plan-ability for low or no cost. That's not lame - it's smart business given RedHat's rapid abandonment of a large chunk of its users.
As for ethics in business, maybe you should post again after you finish your classes on the topic. You seem to talking out of your ass.
I wish to know that at least one of the main desktop Linux distros will stick around for many years, be it Mandrake, Suse, Redhat, whatever. Otherwise, how can "Linux be ready for the desktop" if all the distros close down or stop supporting after a short while? Imagine it, you've managed to persuade your friend|relative to use [insert distro] only to have it stop being supported next year. At least with a Microsoft OS, you know it's going to be a few years before they stop updating, patching etc, it.
I just uninstalled mandrake 9.2 from one of my home machines thanks to your little press release. I am also regretting buying 9.0 retail not too long ago (which, supplemental to point #1, is your oldest supported version), and I'm no longer considering joining "the club".
Please do not bash other companies to try to make a buck in the name of integrity. I read through your 8 points and could not find one thing that Red Hat violates (I assume this press release is targeted towards Red Hat users). At the very least, the Fedora project is a community project with deep pockets thanks to Red Hat. They are not abandoning their heritage, instead it's a similar project with a different name. The only difference is now, in addition to the hundreds of Red Hat engineers working on the Fedora project, anyone else can contribute openly.
Conversely... I'm sorry, what is your oldest supported product again? Also while you say your are committed to providing a free product, your "download" link seems to have disappeared from your home page. Of course digging further reveals it, but then I'm provided with two choices in order to actually download a product:
I agree to support Mandrake Linux, please send me to the Mandrake Linux Users Club Registration page
or:
I'm already a member of the Club or plan on registering soon, please send me to the download page
Does that mean by downloading your free product, I agree to become a member sometime in the future?
fo0bar
(Please forgive my irrational tone. While I believe all I have stated here to be true, my annoyance has taken over my civility, and for that I appologize.)
Speaking of Mandrake club, you need to pay me my $50 for RHEL3, fucker. :)
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
Sorry, but that was Jed Babbin, not Norman Schwartzkopf
That's the one about publishing all the upgrades and fixes. The most disturbing thing I've heard (but not confirmed) about Red Hat is that they require RHEL customers to keep the service bulletins confidential. That seems directly opposite of the free software spirit to me, and it makes me angry if it's true. Anyone know?
Funny. Dark. In America, disk jockeys like Limbaugh are their finest political pundits/junkies.
In America, are principles really so funny?
Mandrake has proposed a set of rules that they want to follow to accomodate the the different interests at play in the Open Source world.
This is a tremendous challenge for any software company.
If you're learning about ethics in a school, you're learning about ethics in the wrong place.
BTW, Fedora explicitly offers no support. That's the deal.
I've no issues with whatever support policy Mandrake wants to have. I think their "ad" is a transparent attempt to score some points off Red Hat. Not unethical, just transparent.
But, I do think it is hyprocritical and naive for anyone who hasn't paid for a current RedHat support contract to bitch about their changed policy. If someone has a contract that Red Hat has broken, get a lawyer. Otherwise, stop whining in public.
Would people bitch if RMS stopped pushing free software or if the Gnome or KDE folks gave it up? Free software is about source availability; it isn't about an imagined obligation of someone else to spend their money to support you.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Correction. The proper term is "BURNED". The US capitol buildings were torched in response to the burning of the Capital of British North America (Now Canada), York, the year before.
The previously BROWN capital buildings were quickly repaired and "painted" so as to present them in the best light, without scorch marks, etc. The only paint avaialable?
White Wash.
And so it was, that Canada (British North America) successfully defeated the American Inavasion and repelled their "manifest destiny" attempts to overthrow and invade a nation of Law, Order, and Good Government.
Now, the French Gov't and German Gov't actually stood to lose a TON of $$$ in the Iraq thing, so to hell with them for putting $$$ before freedom and democracy.
To hell with everyone who tries to equate COLD WAR politics and support against the USSR backed regime in Tehran (remember, the Hamas, Hezbollah? hmm? funding, HELLO?!?) with modern day hypocrisy?
OH PLEASE!
It just amazes me to keep seeing this anti-money attitude in the oss community. Open source isn't about giving away software. It's about freedom. This confusion is one of the main reasons I think that it should not be referred to as "free software" -- it fosters an uninformed and misdirected belief that if someone doesn't give their work away then it's wrong. It's not people. Get over it. MandrakeSoft is a strong supporter of open source and I, for one, hope they do survive and become profitable.
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
At the risk of repeating myself, I do have a paid subscription to RHN. I've paid for two boxed sets of RH in the past. What burns me is that I was a loyal customer, had the little window cling sticker in my car, 2 redhat caps (one white, one black), even put the stupid sticker on my computer. Then they turn around and say they are too good for my money. I want to support a distro that thinks I'm valuable as a customer and I want to have the chance to pay at least some of the people that make this whole thing possible. By the same token, I can't rationally pay several hundred per year for Enterprise.
So even if the Mandrake thing was transparent advertising, I sure am tempted to DL the ISOs and see if I like it. Whoever I choose in the end, I'll become their customer - but after RH's trick, I think I'll still feel skeptical.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
"The primary ethical obligation of a business is to turn a profit."
If that's not what you meant, fine.
yes you heard me correctly.
maybe i'll reply from my bsd desktop while my buzz is still with me...
Ninnle IS a joke!
I only care about a product support lifetime if it's for a mission critical server. Since Mandrake is mostly a desktop distro, the support lifetime is of little concern to me as I change my desktop Linux distro about every 6 months anyway. All of out Mandrake installs are less than a year old. In contrast, we still have many Solaris 5.6 and Red Hat 6.x servers.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
dammit
Or alternatively:
" Boycott anything and everything AMERICAN. These shameful variants of the Anglo race were so apologetic for a Known AMERICAN Dictator [BUSH], they should now suffer the consequences of Supporting Oppression. Show them some economic oppression of your own, deny them any of your hard earned EUROS. Jingoistic and Pro-FRENCH? Think of it as anti-IDIOT. I'm not saying deny your money to non-FRENCH concerns, just deny it to THE USA. Maybe one day when these cowardly YANKS are wondering where their next HAMBURGER is coming from, they will look back to the moment they threw their support behind an ILLEGALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT and basically shitted on the idea of people living free from oppression [ESPECIALLY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY]."
Anything can be turned around...
BTW The French are not a version of the Anglo race, they are obviously as mixed as any nation including the US, but originally were mainly Celts and Franks.
Philistine == native of Palestine. These people have constantly been warring with the Hebrews since way over 2000 years ago. They even ENSLAVED the Jews, that's what a fine people they are. That's who these people are, pay attention next time in class, and you won't show your extreme ignorance of history in the future. God you're an idiot.
You don't seems to understand who inspired the constitution of the USA. Who inspired us the ideas of freedom and democracy. Have you heard about Voltaire and Rousseau, some philosophers (a bit like you ;))
I think froggies did it, I'm proud to say I'm pro american and I still love France
Moreover Mandrake is not a "french distro", the contributors come from all over the world because it is really open source.
THe US government semmed to have understood that because some department of the Nasa and of the FBI are using mandrake since the 8.0
Personally, I don't understand the notion of a customer supporting a business. Why would anyone feel the need to do that? Your purchase of a Red Hat product gave Red Hat all the "support" they deserve: your money.
If you purchased support through a specfic date and RH has prematurely terminated that support, you have every right to be angry and to seek legal redress. If that's not the case, I don't think you have a leg to stand on, regardless of how muich free advertising you provided for Red Hat.
It's natural to be ticked off if a favorite product moves in a direction you don't like. I've used PC's long enough to have owned several that were orpaned when the vendor went belly up. That's more than $10,000 worth of dead-end hardware. Annoying, yes, but inevitable. Those companies owed me only what I paid for, nothing more.
You may be annoyed at RH, but it's inappropriate to argue that RH is ethically required to continue to sell something (support) it doesn't want to sell.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
I know others have replied to this, and it's been modded down, and this reply will likely be, too. But.....
I wanted you to know that I buy as much *French* goods as I can. I spend hundreds of dollars at Mandrake each year, for example, and openly shop at French web sites. Why? To counterbalance stupid assholes like you (that is, assuming this isn't some pose of some sort.)
As for tin pot dictators, as some one else noted, Saddam was the US's boy right up until Osama changed the game in 2001. The US is now out of the "holiest of holies" (Mecca), and fully deployed in a more "secular" state, Iraq. Effectively, Bin Laden's plan worked--the US has shifted it's Middle East power base into a desert-bound Vietnam, while destroying an infidel (Saddam) in the process. Makes one wonder just how tight the connections are between the Bush family and the Bin Ladens.
Look, ma, I can post AC, too!
I think it's safe to say that this is the closest a commerical company will come to Debians' social contract. It's fine by me -- they seem committed to our community, understand that they dependant on the karma of the community and subsequently release all of their source until the GPL, thus promoting the use of free software and allowing the community as a whole to evolve.
However, I would have liked to see a company so committed to the community, the GPL, and the movement in general to get it right with it's terminology and realise the importantance of upholding "free software" (as in freedom) over Open Source. We must strive to keep the spotlight on freedom -- we gave Mandrake the freedom to sell our work -- I'd like to see them ensure that freedom remains.
Perhaps an open letter from RMS is in order?
Right-on!
Let us not forget it was the American government who put him in power -- they orginally trained him as an asassin to overthrow the current leader, but he missed the shot and the US Army helped him out the country. Oh, an Osama. Don't forget who he used to work for (CIA...). What about the current dictators the US supports? Ubsbekistan ring a bell? I sometimes wonder if you Americans read, listen or watch any kind of history as you grow up. I advise try it.
Oh, and this total BS about "freedom" X: "freedom" fries, "freedom" tower, STFU! Who gave you the Statue of Liberty!?! Which countrys' leader was the first to visit New York after 9/11 to offer his support. Which one (of many) languages does your native-language (that is, American-English) decend from? ARGHH! FRANCE, FRANCE, FRANCE!!
To me it's perfectly obvious your president, Al Gore is ignored. That imposter however, Bush, mentions freedom so often purely so the American people are brainwashed into believing they have it - it's a simple propoganda technique, just as the North Koreans practise on their people in order to make them think that the rest of the world is in the same [desperate] state as them.
When you have freedom, you don't have to tell people twenty times a day -- you _just_ know.
A real patriotic American would be ashamed of the current unpresident. America stands for freedom, for civil liberties and for unity -- all that is being taken away from you and you don't even realise. It troubles me, it really does.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." - William Pitt (1759-1806)
- You may be annoyed at RH, but it's inappropriate to argue that RH is ethically required to continue to sell something (support) it doesn't want to sell.
I never suggested they were ethically obligated to sell it - obviously they aren't - it's just a product. All I was saying is that if I'm going to be a loyal customer, I want to go with a loyal company. I know for a fact that in my business, it is very important to respect and show loyalty to my clients. In the software world (not my business BTW), I would hope that loyalty to one's customers improves the chances of long term viability.What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Then I disagree. I believe you get what you pay for, and have never felt any reason to be "loyal" to a company that was selling me something.
If someone does something to merit my support and my loyalty, they'll get it. Taking my money in a retail transaction doesn't measure up.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
What happened to your latest journal entry? Decided it wasn't a great idea?
FTP, they are all over and so is the free iso files. No one said you could be lame and also use a computer.
here, have fun.
Mandrake screwd up on the upgrades. So did Red Hat.
Mandrake is taking a stand on support. Red Hat desktop is "not ready for the desktop", whatever that means.
Now, i don't know for sure, but it sure as hell looks like Mandrake is stading by home users a lot more.
You have no journal, so I will ask you here.
Why did you mark me as a foe?
i haven't liked the high moding of some of your comments and have found them somewhat trollish.
nevermind it, i just read mostly, it's just a way to filter content.
Pot Kettle Black.
If they are such a good, reliable, stand up company, why can't I find the source code rpms or installation .iso for Mandrake 6.1 anywhere on the net ?
It would be nice to install distributions maintained by people who would leave their downloads up, so that when you were confronted with ancient installations in the future that needed a few tweaks, you could handle it.