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Cross-Platform Video Capture Cards And TV Tuners?
ePIsOdEOnline writes "This Christmas reminded me of the times when you were a child and your parents bought that new toy that says on the packaging "Batteries Not Included". Post-Christmas rituals always turn into spending sprees to get other things that will be compatible and complementary to the gifts we recieved. This past Christmas, I recieved a PS2 along with a mini-dv camera set. Well, now I'll need something to view these with since I don't have a television in my apartment. So, I was looking into picking up a TV-tuner card for my computer. What kind of cards has the slashdot crowd been successful with, and which ones should I steer clear of? I'd like to be able to use the card in linux and sometimes windows, to watch and record off of. What kinds of software/hardware should I invest in, and is it an easy, accomplishable task to delve into?"
Includes hardware MPEG encoder/decoder.
h ee t.htm
http://www.hauppauge.com/html/wintvpvr250_datas
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/history/12 6250
Crito says
"brooktree/conexant chip based cards are supported by the bttv driver, ATI cards by the gatos driver, nvidia cards by the, uh, i forget, but there a driver for their framegrabber chip too. Problem with bttv is not all tuners are supported, so don't bet it'll work with any 878 card. There's a file called "cardlist" that comes with bttv that'll give you specific models it detects. Also, check the card manufacturer's website for hardware incompatibilities. My Hauppauge card has problems with some SiS, VIA and ALi chipset mobos, for example, but works great with the bttv driver otherwise."
- Dan
I _still_ use an old Commodore 1084S as a monitor for my video machine. Has separate Y/C inputs, component RGB and two handy built in speakers as well.
Surely there's something with as many options still made today?
printf("%s@yahoo.co.uk\n", uid[569754].name);
I purchased a Leadtek Winfast TV 2000 XP Deluxe tv tuner, and I enjoyed it alot. It is not as expensive as other tuners available on the market, but works for all my needs. It has a stylish and easy to use remote control, as well as an FM tuner built in.
I have written a TV Tuner Guide for linux that focuses mainly on this tuner (but can be used for most tuners under linux.
For the price, and the quality you get, in my opinion, this is one of the best tv tuners out there.
tourettes
Under linux you really can't beat the hauppauge PVR 250 or 350. Both include hardware mpeg2 encoding, the 350 includes hardware mpeg2 decoding. You can find drivers at ivtv.sf.net. It's nice to record tv shows at 640x480 at 2% cpu load.
The card is also well supported by mythtv.
Why does it need to be a card? I use the Canopus ADVC-1000 external FireWire DV converter for video captures, it will work on anything with a FW port.
There are quite a few TV Tuner external boxes, but most of them are based on USB, which doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to do DV, so most of them use proprietary codecs with much lower bandwidth use (and lower quality). If you just want to make VCDs, they're probably fine, but all the USB tuners are of insufficient quality to do DVD quality storage. Of course, most of what you grab off the air or cable/DirecTV isn't DVD quality either, it's already been compressed more than the ~6:1 that DV uses.
I've had a ot of luck using the drivers for Brooktree 878 chipset based capture cards on FreeBSD and Linux.
For people trying to get a strange video card working with a later Windows OS such as 2000 and XP, these generic drivers are life savers.
http://btwincap.sourceforge.net/
http://www.iulabs.com/drv/index.shtml
You can find a reasonable TV set for $15 at the local thrift shop. Make things easy on yourself.
As for my suggestion to the questioner. Get what you're comfortable with, the ATI ALL-IN-WONDER cards are nice, and from what I understand *most* are supported under Linux. (How hard is it to do video overlays in X?)
Why not use the PS2 Linux distribution? The Linux1394 project offers strong support for FireWire, especially DV gear. You could use your gifts to get your video on the TV, with Open Source editing tools. Along the way, you'll get your PS2 on the network, and much more portable gear in the PS2 formfactor. And you'll support the OSS FW and DV communities with your feedback.
--
make install -not war
There are several good TV Tuners in the market today. However the good hardware is not accomanied by good software.
ATI All-in-wonder is a pretty decent tuner card with a good sofware suite.
Unless you are getting a Microsoft Media Center PC don't even consider hauppauge cards.
Internal cards are better than external cards.
TV recording requires lot of bandwidth which USB or serial ports can't provide.
Also, check out some the comments in neowin.net
Click me!
I have a lower range Hauppage product which I had trouble finding Linux drivers for (and Hauppauge were very uncooperative)... make sure your system will work with anything Hauppauge or make sure you have a very reliably backup option.
karma karma karma karma karma chameleon, you come and go, you come and go.
check out the open source stuff that will compile nicely on OS X
There's some open source stuff out there, but if you're looking for anything for editing -- and you want to do editing that looks good, with a fade in and fade out, and want frame accuracy, you're S.O.L. There's some stuff out there, but a lot of it is not as good as it claims to be, or is hard to work with (Cinelerra), or only works with one file format (Cinelerra), or isn't supported and development seems to have stopped (Jahshaka), or is in very early stages of development (KDEnliven), or is only for simple stuff (like editing out commercials).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have the 8500 DV and i run my gamecube through it. It is not HDtv quality, but it is better then having to fit a tv into my tiny dorm room :)
Plus, it has people turning their heads seeing me play my gamecube on my computer. Of course, the newest ATI Radeon All in wonder probably costs around 400-500 bucks....so go for an older one
Jeff
Back in the late <gasp> '80s, I bought a 27" Sony TV, and declared that I wasn't going to do anything but replace broken video gear until HDTV came out. 15 years later, I've finally broken down and replaced the (still functional) altar to the entertainment gods.
Nearly a year ago, we finally fell to the temptation of getting a projector. The thing that finally made this happen was the InFocus X1. This is a Not only is the price of the projector quite reasonable, the operating cost is down from $1 per hour (many projectors have $300 bulbs that last around 300 hours) to under $0.10 per hour (the X1 bulb is still around $300, but it lasts 10 times as long).
So, while it's not a TV tuner card, I just had to provide some feedback. We love the projector, it doesn't take up much space, it's easily portable, it makes a 45" TV seem small.
That said, I've heard good things about the Haupage tuner cards using the Brooktree chipset. I haven't tried any of them in over 5 years, so they've surely changed. However, they seemed to work great using Video 4 Linux drivers.
Sean
Hauppauge PVR/250/350 for Windows/Linux.
Elgato's EyeTv for Mac OS X.
I hate sigs.
I would not recommend a TV tuner for anything other than watching TV.
Your DV camera should have a digital output (IEEE 1394 (FireWire)) - use that. Additionally, if that DV camera is a nicer one it may have video input; meaning that you can connect your PS2 to your camera, which is connected your computer, which is connected to your display.... you may not need to buy anything?
there is no spoon
PC for creating a video. Nothing is better
That is definitely wrong.
There are only 2 (serious) editing programs: Avid and Final Cut Pro.
Avid runs on PC and Mac. Final Cut Pro only runs on Mac so Apple can sell the hardware (they bought the project from Macromedia, killed the Windows version and made the Mac version into Final Cut Pro).
While I'm not a Mac fan, video editing is certainly the area in which a Mac is perfectly suitable for the job. Besides, since Apple's interest is in selling hardware, FCP can easily be copied. That is not the case with Avid which needs a hardware dongle.
If you only want to play PS2 you may not need anything else but cables and a Firewire card. I have a laptop, a DV camera and I'm a frequent traveler. I also tend to take my Gamecube with me to play some PSO (I take my GBA too, for those wondering).
Sometimes in hotels the TVs don't have the means to connect a game console, so I just connect the GC to the camera, then to the IEEE1394/Firewire/iLink and watch the video on the laptop thanks to the great Video IN -> DV Out feature of this camera (I have used three different models of Sony Handycam with this feature, DCR-PC5, PC101 and PC330), and the quality is very high (720x480@24Mbps, 12/16 bit audio). The output can also be captured and encoded in real time either using Windows (Premiere or Studio) or Linux (dvgrab, Kino).
Unfortunately, there are some minor issues. First there is some small latency on the video conversion that could be annoying in some fast-paced games (fighting games are definitely affected), and I'm sure this is the case with a lot of Video Capture hardware. The second issue is that it doesn't have a tuner.
For me, those issues are not a problem because I mostly play PSO (an online action RPG with very mild latency requirements, but even Mario Kart is very much playable, only Soul Calibur II has given me trouble so far) and I stay in hotels, so there's no need for a TV Tuner either.
Of course, YMMV =)
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
Get a Brooktree chipset card, and download dScaler and be knocked out at the quality. I've been through half a dozen different cards, and I'm currently using a I/O Magic PC-PVR card. Virtually every one of these cards uses the same reference design, and the only variation is how well they handle the signal path and grounding. I know how clean this card is because I'm using it to capture at 720 x 480 and scale up to 1280 x 720 using dScaler's amazing deinterlacing. Then I show it on my 90" wide screen.
"How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
A few months ago i bought the cheapest Hauppauge card i could find. At first i was disappointed by the picture quality, but I soon found out that the software that comes with it is some of the poorest i've ever seen. long story short, use Dscaler when in windows and tvtime in linux
I get a stellar picture from a Tivo or a PS/2 (and a dv cam) by running the video through a converter box such as the cheesebox. It also has a switch/passthough on it to run your vga through. Sicne I have 2 vga monitors on my dual head video card, I switch out the 2nd monitor to watch the tivo output, or the ps2, at full screen, and then my pc still has the primary monitor going.
Other companies also make fancier switchboxes, and they mostly suck and cost more. Make sure you can return them, or else you may see some blurring or bizarre flckering that you didn't count on when you read the brochure.
As a bonus, the image is progressive scanned, and looks great with dvds.
$48 with shipping.
I love mine.
You can record from the TV tuner, or the S-Video input.
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
Who would buy someone without a TV a Playstation 2 and a Mini DV outfit?
Secondly wouldn't buying a TV be cheaper and simpler?
The Hauppauge 250 is a great card to watch and record TV, but because of the 2-3 second delay as the video stream is encoded into MPEG-2, it makes playing any sort of video game system through it virtually impossible. Beware.
For the actual DV you might want to look at Kino as its a stable editor for raw DV footage
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
I haven't used iMovie, so I can't really comment on it. I've seen other professionals I've worked with use Final Cut and it's fantastic (but not free).
As for [sarcasm]fancy schmancy fades you describe[/sarcasm], they're not fancy schmancy if you're doing anything professional. For example, I tend to use dissolves on most of my short demos -- even if it's only a 10 frame dissolve-- because it helps create a more even flow and unified feel (unless I want a jerky, abrubt feel) and ties one shot into the next better than a cut. It's rare I start anything (especially 30 second spots) with anything other than a fade in or end them with anything other than a fade out.
But then again, that's just me in my role as a professional video producer. For your use, if you're just cutting out the commercials from whatever show you're copying (instead of paying for it so those that created it can earn a few bucks for their work), I can see why you wouldn't need it.
As far as simple goes -- I've seen a number of people who get home editing software start to do photo collections. I used to do a lot of these while I still worked for other people -- you take photos and music, lay down the music, and put the photos on video with the music background. This is something that almost always works better with dissolves and wipes. If you're doing one that's 5 minutes or longer, it can get boring (even if the viewer cares about the content in the photos), so adding a few wipes and a variety of dissovles can help. As more of the home video people do more of this, I see them realizing that what they once thought was more than they needed is really a basic part of the professional toolbox.
Just get a TV for fifty bucks at a pawn shop. It'll probably either be stolen, or have been hocked by someone in desperate straits, so in a sense you'll be trafficing in human misery, but hey, can't beat the prices. That way you'll be able to surf porn while you're watching Letterman.
I've been using a Hauppauge WinTV PCI w/ FM for a few years now and have no complaints. It's got good sounding stereo sound and with a good enough antenna the FM reception is very good too. CPU utilization while watching TV depends on the app. With xawtv it's practically zero, with tvtime it sits around 10% (due to picture smoothing, etc..). That card is moving into a MythTV box at the moment.
The Hauppauge PVR250 is on my current shopping list. MythTV supports the 250s hardware mpeg encoding, so you can record without putting pressure on your CPU. I'm sure the same is true for it's own Windows application.
You might also look for a VGA converter for your PS/2. Lets you plug your PS/2 straight into your monitor. Pick up a KVM with it and you're set.
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
I 've been trying to find and buy the pvr250 for about two months (I live in Greece). My plans were simple:install the card and make a mythTV video recorder using my pc. But it seems that the local representative of Haupage here was not interested in selling any units so after a dozen phone calls to various stores (they kept telling me that there weren't any units available) I decided to just drop it, and went and bought a
philips dvdr70. It may be more expensive than the pvr250/350 but:
1)The price is roughly the same with the sum of the prices of a decent dvdr (~200Euros) for the pc and the haupage (~200Euros).
2)If I was going to use the pc as a pvr, I would probably have to buy a small UPS too. Dunno about other countries but here in Greece, leaving the pc open always is a recipe for disaster. Add about ~120Euros minimum for that too.
3)I believe a standalove product is more usable than a pc based pvr. In the later case I would be the only one in my family really able to use it.
4)The standalone writer is really plug and play. Hell, it even learned the channels from my tv, so I did not have to do anything besides plugging it to the outlet and the tv set.
Of course the pvr based solution probably offers more capabilities so someone may have no choice than to use it.
To answer your question, yes, but...
1) Quality. It sucks. It's not worth it.
2) Drivers. They suck. Don't plan on using it under Linux.
3) Bandwidth. USB doesn't have very good bandwidth, and as such, it sucks.
Contact Me (got tired of viruses emailing me).
I have an ATI USB TV tuner/capture device (usb tv wonder).
and I have to say..its awful.
I got a decent machine (p4 2.8GHz HT, 512 MB DDR400, and a 120 gig hdd) and it drops an insane ammount of frames.
I have even tried speed disking the drive before capping.
Also the resolution isnt that good..it maxes at 320x200, while a rage 3d pro i had didnt drop many frames (maybe 10 for each 10 minutes while the ati does about 150 every minute!) and it capped at 700+ res
hope this helps
Ask DVDR/VCDhelp.com, they probably know far more. Also look through their Capture Card list which includes a checkbox if it works under linux.
Composite = video. Yes, usually if you're using a composite cable to hook up video, you're using "stereo" hookups, but not necessarily (see NES...)
If you use the composite input for video, it would follow that you'd use the composite input for audio. The card comes with a stereo mini plug to RCA adapter.
It plug into the "sound in" on your sound card. You would get stereo input if you were using it.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I haven't tried any of the record options but dScaler works under windows, I haven't tried it under linux.
:-D
My card is an old old pci card. It is an AIMS Highway eXtreme from circa 1993. It can only capture 320x240 but it is very good at play back. BTW it is off the BT8x8 chipset.
I've used windows media encoder and while on a university 10 mbps half duplex network I was able to stream from a VHS tape (coaxle input) on a celeron 533 with 384 megs of ram and win2K. I had upto 10 connections and no lag streeming audio & video to the network for wednesday night movies.
I think video4linux works well with this card. Knoppix linux has quite a few video options including streaming video for many cards. The bet part is its a live cd.
~ryan
The TVW under Linux isnt soo bad, but in Windows its a real pain. Its not a hardware problem, merely the fact that ATI's drivers suck noodles and Windows Plug 'N Pray doesnt help it any.
For the money, go out and get a AverMedia TV Studio. Its cheap, works beautifully under both Linux and Windows, has a built in FM tuner, and it even comes with a remote... (And the Windows drivers are decent, too...)
Despite the name, I use this card a LOT in linux. Until recently, I did run my PS2/Gamecube off of it, and it works fine with XawTV and WebVcr+. The only issue I had was in playing video games, it was very *dark*. Soul Reaver 2 and LOK: Defiance are dark enough without needing help. ;) This could also just be an xawtv issue, and not have anything to do with the card itself, I don't know, but other than that, the WinTV Go works like a charm under Slackware 9.1
dude just go get a freaking tv they are dirt cheaop
Apparently, TV sets are not cheap once the prospective owner has factored in the cost of real estate. See Dagowolf's comment for details. In addition, it's hard to find a tunerless monitor with just composite, S-video, and SCART/component inputs; some national governments require all owners of a tuner to pay an annual fee to a government-sponsored broadcast network.
For just plain TV (erm, cable too) I've been using an AverTV card (www.avermedia.com). It's no frills, PCI based, and you need to connect it to your sound card via a jumper. But, it's based on the Brooktree 848 card, which you can use with your native Kernel and the Video4Linux subsystem. For the tuner software, you can use the default XawTV that comes with most applications, but I highly recommend TV Time (tvtime.sourceforge.net). It's very high quality with high reliability, low system foot print, a tidy on screen display, intuitive features, and it interfaces with XML TV to display channel information. You can also add LiRC support and use a remote control. Now, I haven't had much luck getting PVR software (freevo, mythtv) but that's not the cards fault. Freevo has too much dependancy on other applications, particularly perl modules, and mythtv is handicapped by a shoddy python install. Rumor from the developer of TV Time is that it will eventually include PVR capability.
AverTV is about the cheapest BT848 based unit out there, and they make higher models with stereo and dbx support built in, so you can check those out. I don't even own a TV, and havent for two years. I'm always in front of this damn machine. BTW, the Linux applications are far superior in stability, color, and frame rate than the included Windows software.
I have the same card. I had problems with the drivers when i first got it and had to wait for updated drivers to fix my video problems. the Hauppage Software is horrible but there are some 3rd party programs that work with the pvr250/350 now. When it works correctly it works very well but I have found that it only works well when using 3rd party software.
Qua
Go search Google on ATI All-In-Wonder audio sync, and you'll see that there are problems, especially on long captures. There's no real reliable configuration to alleviate this problem, and ATI has refused to deal with this problem pretty much since the first AIW cards were released. If you have the time and patience to manually re-sync your audio to the nearest frame, be my guest. Otherwise, forget about this solution.
I saw a reference to Hauppauge on slashdot, and guess what ? I bought one PVR-350..
Only to discover that it doesn't work with my MSI K7N2-L motherboard.. And when looking for the problem I found that Hauppauge does not recomment it's useage with VIA based motherboards (basically all motherboards with a AMD processor).
So my advice is to stay away from Hauppauge if you have a AMD CPU (like almose everyone I know).
According to websites, the Hauppauge PVR can work with **some** VIA based motherboards with the latest drivers and some BIOS tveaking (Disable CPU-to-PCI command buffering)..
Just my 240 Euros ...
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
The G400 eTV is a nice card:
see here
Drawbacks:
The nicest thing about the card is that specs for most of the chips are avaiable if you wish to hack it.
To see more about the linux support:
See here.