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Is Self Publishing Worth the Price?
vonFinkelstien asks: "I have written an adolescent novel and am having trouble getting it published. I have recently started looking at self-publishing, print-on-demand firms like Trafford or the many listed at pdfcreator. Trafford looks legitimate and offers a discount for those who do the layout themselves (I would use LaTeX). But the 'Bestseller Package' (which offers some promotional support) still costs $1399 when you create the layout yourself. Are such services worth the high initial cost ($500-$2000)? If any of you could give your experiences with or advice about these companies, I and other aspiring authors would be grateful."
Have you looked into Iuniverse? Last time I looked through their material it was under $200 for a basic package with no Marketing support. http://www.iuniverse.com
Major publishers wine and dine the distributors, pushing hard to get their titles pushed out to the bookstores. The distributors won't listen to some nobody press without a large promotional package or a hot and controversial title.
Without distributors' backing, do you honestly plan to sit down and call all the stores yourself? Are you okay with just selling a couple dozen copies on the web and in Amazon marketplace outside the main book searches and such?
I have written an adolescent novel and am having trouble getting it published.
Trafford looks legitimate and offers a discount for those who do the layout themselves (I would use LaTeX).
How many equations are you planning on putting in this 'adolescent novel' anyhow? And you're wondering why you're 'having trouble getting it published'?
"I'm not so sure we should be doing this. We'd better turn back!" Molly exclaimed.
Sarah curled her lip in her characteristic unconscious show of displeasure. "I can't believe our one weekend away from our parents and you want to stop now! If you want to chicken out then go right ahead! But I'm going to \partial \rho \over \partial t + \nabla \dot u = 0 and that's all there is to it!"GMD
watch this
It's funny because it's true.
Gold Rush Games launched their POD/layout group, Golden Pillar Publishing (linked off goldrushgames.com somewhere), specifically for non-game stuff. Prices are good and they do nice layout work, basically everything except the writing.
But you're going to have to push your book. Best model is, self-publish, sell 1k copies, use that to shop the book (or similar books) to publishers as a way to differentiate you from the usual slush pile-- you're proven slush!
For game publishers, mind you, GRG started a service to actually rep and sell you via distribution (great for RPGs, not relevant for fiction or non-fiction writing).
A.
...but CafePress has a publishing service.
he's been selfpublishing for awhile now. He's using lulu.com.
Posting other material you've written makes good advertising.
You might not wish to, but I'm sure some of his sales came from the fact you can read the whole thing at http://www.kuro5hin.org/prime-intellect/
SFWA (The Science Fiction Writer's Association) has an excellent page on the subject at http://www.sfwa.org/beware/subsidypublishers.html. Should give you some idea what to watch for.
The best thing to say is really don't self publish at all. even with "some promotion" it still comes down to what the books stores consider a "vanity title" and many won't stock it.
As a result you are basically out your money.
Self-publishing will mean a garage full of books. Sure, there are rare exceptions - the Celestine Prophecy dude - but they're exceptions. Are you really planning on driving around to book stores, spending time with the manager, giving him books on consignment (not that Border's, B&N, etc. will take them)...?
I'd work more on your prose than on self-publishing.
Should you self publish? Only if you consider writing your hobby and then see it as a one time splurge never to be recooped.
If you want your story out there just put it on the net. If you wanta make money with writing then you need a publisher. A real one. Not just a printer who cuts out the middle man.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
If you've really invested some serious hours into this novel, then you have to ask yourself if it's worth the investment to get it published with some support. Unless you think your novel will be some sleeper word-of-mouth success, you are going to need some help selling it, and frankly 1300 doesn't sound too bad. Additionally, if no publishing houses, who have infinite advertisement resources, were interested in your book, do you think you can get your book sold with zero support?
But your mistake is going straight to the publisher. Go to literary agents working in adolescent fiction.
http://hollylisle.com/fm/Articles/faqs3.html will give you a good start.
If you want your story out there just put it on the net. If you wanta make money with writing then you need a publisher.
I suspect that he is neither interested in putting out a great story or making money. He just wants to see his name in print, brag about it at cocktail parties, and give autographed copies of his master work to family and friends as gifts. Otherwise he would have done exactly as you suggested. Hey, whatever turns you on. If being able to point to a printed book with a nice cover makes you feel like you've accomplished something in your life, that's great. I won't begrude you. There are tons of people who never feel they've accomplished anything.
There is a good article by Kevin Kelly on "Printing small quantities of books cheaply."
In addition to heavy-duty self-production he also talks about his experience of
There is also a longer descrition of Kelly's Latest Publishings in Wired - Kell's Catalaog of Cool.
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
1st books.com
I eat my grapes at room temperature, cuz the cold ones hurt my teeth
I'm not sure why more people haven't head of http://www.lulu.com/
It's a great service and I've used it already to publish a small book to give to family members.
Lulu Enterprises is the latest venture of Red Hat, co-founder and open source enthusiast Bob Young. Lulu.com allows anyone to publish and sell digital files--including books, artwork, and photographs--over the Internet.
Publishing work on Lulu.com is free, and content creators are asked to establish a royalty fee for each item they upload.
Lulu's revenue model is based on receiving a small percentage of each content purchase, as well as on fees for a line of planned additional services, such as editing and formatting.
I've seen this several times in comments so far, the idea that publishers are magical and if they don't accept a book it must suck.
Do you realize that Stephen King couldn't get published for YEARS? You'll find the same with Piers Anthony and a number of chronic bestseller authors.
There is nothing uncanny or special about publishers. They merely have a market lockin much like the music industry, the publishers after all, are NOT the readers.
P.S. Controversial books usually sell well simply because their controversial.
Since then I have found that same SFWA warnings that someone has posted and this article, which highlights a lot of the problems facing POD and self publishers:
1. Bookstores won't order books that they cannot return. POD's mantra is NO INVENTORY, so they will not take the books back.
2. Reviewers will not review POD or self published works, because they want a pre-release copy to review before the book comes onto the market.
3. Some distributors do strange things (like making the stores have the books on backorder) with POD books, which make the titles even more unattractive to book stores.
One POD publisher that the article mentions is Superior Books. For several years they have tried to merge the old way of publishing with the way of the future (POD). Offering free publishing, selective acceptance, delayed releases to make reviewers happy, and more. However, they have all but given up. Now they will only refer a good author to a literary agent or publish niche non-fiction (perhaps my ESL book would work here).
I will look at small presses which specialize in fantasy and adolescent literature and try to get an agent (which are all but unheard of here in Sweden for authors).
Perhaps it took years for Stephen King to build his talents to a sufficient level, and to build his reputation to a sufficient level.
No matter what industry you are in, you should expect to start out at the bottom and work your way up. Though we all hear about the computer programmer who made a million dollars at his first job, or a first time author who wrote a book about child-magicians that was turned into a movie, those are rare cases. Most people work years at their craft to perfect it.
The companies that publish books for authors who can't get someone else to publish the book are collectively known as the "vanity press". They appeal to the vanity of the author, who at the end of the process has spent a lot of time writing the book, and then spent a lot of money publishing the book. In the end, he's out a lot of time, money, and all he has is a pile of books.
If you really think your book is wonderful, then you should self-publish, without a doubt. But, don't expect to make any money. Put the thing up on a website with a tip jar.
Then get to work, writing your next book. Polish your craft, because you're probably one of those people who just has to start at the bottom and work hard to get to the top. Nothing dishonorable about that.
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
Ctrl+C Ctrl+V and post your entire novel as a Slashdot comment.
how long until
King was publishing stories in small journals in college. And while there has been a lot of consolidation in the publishing industry, the publishing associations do not have the same kind of lockin that MPAA and RIAA do.
for conspiracy theorists, people peddling business schemes (ie, "tiny classified ads")or regional/local histories.
Publishers don't just print books, they get them in the stores where consumers can buy them.
If you have a desire to make money writing books, write something that a publisher wants. Once you are published, you'll have a better shot of successfully pitching your current book.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Maybe this will help.
Two people I know are writers. One wrote a novel, and used one of those print-on-demand services. He wasn't happy with the formatting or anything, really. But the book was really horrible, anyway, and I doubt any of the publishers he sent it to read beyond the first horrible page. I read the whole horrible thing, though, because I'm a nice guy.
The other writer wrote three chapters, showed it to a friend, who showed it to his boss, who is an editor at a major publisher. She just signed a contract, got a $50k advance, and a dealine in April. Amazing for a first book, eh?
I'll read her book with pleasure, and never read 'vanity press' books again. If you are good, people will pay YOU, if you are bad you will pay THEM.
The latest Slashdot meme.
From the FAQ at Monolith:
Are you currently accepting unsolicited submissions?
Not at this time.
As long as I have been aware of Monolith this has been the case. I have always assumed that Wil Wheaton created Monolith purely as a vehicle for publishing his own work (maybe allowing for it to become something bigger down the road if that worked out) - and I am curious to see what he does with it now that O'Reilly has picked him up.
On a side note- I've been meaning to email him for some time and ask how he went about getting those initial copies of Dancing Barefoot printed - what methods mentioned above that he may have used. (are ya readin' this wil? can ya save me the typing? -- I know it's a long shot but hey- can't hurt to ask)
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Check out Bob Young's (yes, that Bob Young's) Lulu service. No setup fees.
I've been fielding communications from people like you for almost nine years now over at Speculations, and I keep saying the same thing to everyone: please don't self-publish your work.
With very few exceptions it ends badly for the author, with a garage full of books, an empty bank account, and no chance of a career as a professional author. Pointers upstream to SFWA and Writer Beware are excellent places to start; I would also recommend looking around the Speculations site, paying particular attention to the Caveat Scrivener section of The Rumor Mill.
Above all things, remember Yog's Law: money flows towards the artist. Never pay anyone to read, edit, represent, review, or publish your work; if you do, you're a sucker, not a professional.
I agree with the above. I've also written a short story once (it's on my website (in Dutch (un)fortunately)) and I now want to publish a few more stories there before thinking about publishing. So far I've gotten mostly positive responses about my story about Sophie. However, I am quite sure many people say that it's good just to be nice, so I am not too satisfied about that. It's now time for Sophie to have her next adventure; hopefully I get more negative responses about that one. Of course this could also mean that it's really crap. O well... What I wanted to say was that I think it's a good idea to put your stories on the web first for everyone to read so you get a feeling of how good you are before going to a publisher to try to make money out of them.
Good luck!
-- Cheers!
Editors are a filter between the unwashed masses and you.
If you take every science fiction story this year that somebody is willing to show people other than their closest writing buddy, put it in one massive bookshelf, and pick a single story at random, that story may be a bestseller. Or it may be a really bad star wars slashfic written by somebody who's really repressed. Remember, 90% of everything is crap.
The goal of a publisher is to filter this out. A publisher is doing their job if you can pick a book at random from a much smaller bookshelf (so that most of the crap is gone), look at the cover to decide if it's your sort of thing, and then generally be satisfied with your selection.
Now, the problem is that people are self-correlated. A given individual, unless they totally suck, generally thinks that they are above average in every way. So most writers, even rather awful writers, still consider themselves good enough to join the honored ranks of the published (yet still pennieless) authors. This means that an editor for any book publisher or magazine of note sends out 10 to 100 rejections for each novel they take.
This means that an Editor is overworked, in general. They are hated by most writers because you are statistically likely to get a rejection. They often times will stop reading a story at the first few pages if it's got something that they feel indicates suckage (This can be off-the-wall things like including dedications in the beginning, chapter breaks in anything shorter than 50,000 words, weird fonts, etc)
And, of course, they screw up. Names sell, so they would be dumb to not buy up an existing famous-name writer's latest, even if it's crap. They will almost invariably turn down somebody good on a regular basis. They are not paid to develop writers, they are paid to convert unsorted submissions of varying quality to money, via a printing press.
This also means that your average reader avoids some or all vanity press styled publishing mediums simply because the amount of choice is far too overwhelming whereas Barnes and Nobles is certain to have something they will like despite the reduced choice.
The problem with controversial books is that they can backfire or flop in a variety of interesting ways. Boycots of publishers can hurt the bottom line and overrule any cheap publicity gains. It can hurt the reputation of the publisher among scholarly crowds and/or their authors. They can be sued, sometimes successfully.
Or, even better, it could be a book that was written specifically to be controversial, yet ends up just being pretentious, trite, or dumb. Lolita or A Clockwork Orange were groundbreaking at the time. Trying to write the same novel now just looks dumb.
The problem is that Sturgeon was charitable in saying that 90% of everything sucks.
Gentoo Sucks
I have worked for several printers in the past, one in particular specializes in short-run self-published books. Suprisingly inexpensive, especially if you do the layout yourself. Has excellent documentation on website on how the prepare the files + tips (click on the information link).
http://www.gorhamprinting.com
If I had just written a book, I'd print out a copy and pay a English grad student to read it and give me her honest opinion.
A little of both. I haven't picked up a King book in over 10 years, but I tore through a bunch the 10 years prior to that. Reading his collections (Skeleton Crew, Night Shift, etc.), there's often interesting and funny tidbits about how the stories were published. I think he even had some published in porn mags (hey, you gotta feed you wife and kids, right?).
I don't recall his entire journey to fame and glory, but King just kept plugging away at it. Many criticize his writing as pretty bad (can't write a believable female character to save his life, unelegant prose, etc.), but you gotta give the guy credit.
It seems to me that someone starting out will either become an overnight success (see Harry Potter) or someone who's walked a steady pace until his time had come (King).
Method of processing duck feet
ruin his self-esteem?
I have an BA in English, but I am male, I am not wussy, etc.
There was treatise quite some time ago, probably written tongue in cheek, about the inordinate amount of BA's who gravitate towards the Unix environment; English students in particular. It was naturally well thought-out and well written. It was as if the author knew me!
Anyway, I'll read for money.
"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas"
Sen. Davy Crocket to US Congress, Nov. 1, 1835
I've seen this several times in comments so far, the idea that publishers are magical and if they don't accept a book it must suck.
While it's not necessarily true, the fact is that publishers (yes, all of them) have huge piles of unsolicited manuscripts, and yes, most of them DO suck! An occasional good work may get lost in this pile. But they (or at least most) do actually have people to read these "slush piles" (the most feared job in the industry), and they occasionally find good things in there. But the plain fact of the matter is that far more people think they can write than actually can.
Do you realize that Stephen King couldn't get published for YEARS?
This is true of most authors. And, having read a couple of early King works, published later after he was famous (and probably after heavy editing), my opinion is that those early attempts were rejected for damn good reason. They didn't deserve to be published!
If you're serious about writing, the main trick is to keep writing! NOT to keep trying to get your first attempt published. If it gets rejected several times, stick it in a drawer, and come back to it after a while and see if you can figure out how or if it can be salvaged. In the mean time, write more, and keep trying. This is the path that the vast majority of successful (and semi-successful) authors have taken.
Stephen King and Piers Anthony didn't keep trying to get those early works published. They kept writing! And that's the secret to their success.
Also, don't expect to get rich or famous. Most authors, even those with dozens of published books, barely make a living. So, if you don't enjoy the process of writing, try another line of work. And if you do, keep writing; eventually you'll probably learn enough to write something that sells.
And don't forget the short-story market. It's a lot easier to write a decent short story than to put together an entire novel. Plus it takes less work, and is quicker.
(No, I'm not a writer, but I grew up around writers, and have been good friends with dozens, and acquainted with many more.)
You ought to check out www.imprintbooks.com I have published two novels with them and been very happy with the outcome. Am I wealthy enough to retire and write, yet? Nope. Will that happen any time soon? Who knows? A lot of it goes to why you write in the first place. If you write for yourself, because you need to write, and getting it out there--even if it's just to a handful of people--is part of that need, self-publishing is a road to get there. The world is full of nay-sayers and people who only go for sure things maybe you need to ignore them and get your book out however you can.
Point being that, the book publishing industry is every bit as bankrupt of integrity as the Movie/Music industries to which we have more exposure. A "Good" author is one that makes money, and most of the time they have no clue who that will be.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
They used to call these "vanity presses," and there was and is a stigma attached to them. Think about it carefully, because you could be tossing aside your chances ever to be picked up by an agent and publisher.
They work better for non-fiction pieces; for example, if the Ladies' Guild at the First Self-Righteous Church decides to collect and publish their recipes, self-publishing is the way to go. In the non-Slashdot part of my real life, I refer to self-published books on dealing with esoteric "How to do this" subjects related to my art. No major publisher would ever pick that type of book up, but there are audiences, and such books do very well when self-published.
Have a look at Stephen King's surprisingly good "On Writing." He has a whole section on getting published.
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There have been alot of interesting comments on self-publishing in this thread. Some are pretty good, some are bitter, and more than a few seem to be coming from people who haven't really followed the publishing industry since the early to mid 90's. I've been studying the publishing industry for about 5 years now, started my own publishing company, produced 1 of my own books, 1 almost finished, and 2 other author manuscripts in the chamber for production. I've got alot to share about the publishing thing - good, bad, and ugly. Mostly through word of mouth, I've sold several hundred copies of my first book, a collection of poetry and short stories. It's been my guinnea pig to build from.
For starters, if you're going to self-publish your book, you'll want to do so with the knowledge that, at worst, the endeavor serves as a huge time and money sinkhole. At best, you'll set out on what will become a great success story. And if you're smart early on, you'll be able to break even. I've got alot to share and I've been writing on this post off and on for several hours now in and around last minute work stuff, so if it seems a bit jumpy in parts, forgive me.
The publishing industry as a whole has been undergoing a slow, steady shift as a result of current technologies and changing trends in information distribution. According to a study done by the Publisher's Marketing Association, while large publishing companies have barely held their own over the past five years, the 80,000-plus independent publishers in the U.S.A. have grown at a rate of 22 percent per year. Their combined revenue now amounts to approximately $30 billion per year. The numbers aren't earthshattering, but they're enough to have the majors already nervous about what the future holds.
When it comes to self-publishing your book, before you embark on this endeavor, do alot of homework.
Go download this PDF; it contains what many startup independents would consider the quinessential reading list for how to crack into publishing, whether just for your 1 title or as a small press: http://www.wexfordpress.com/tex/pub.pdf
Investing in all or even at least half those titles can save you literally tens of thousands of dollars in the long run.
Although, by default, when you pay for the production of a book, even though you are the publisher, it does NOT make you *A* publisher. There's a huge difference. I'm going to hit on some key points and do so in real broad strokes, so forgive me for any details I may gloss over.
FORM A CORPORATION - cheapest alternative would be to set up an LLC in your state... roughly $50 for your local biz license, $100 or so for the State Corp Commission registration. Get your EIN number from the IRS as well. Set up as a company and you'll have a legitimate means of using all of your invested monies as a tax writeoff against what you're earning with your day job. The profits and losses within an LLC flow back to the owner(s) in the form of K1-statements from when you file the company's taxes. These K1s are then used when filing one's own taxes. In the early days, you're almost always going to take significant losses, thus significant gains on income tax refunds.
CONTENT EDITING - I don't care if you've spent half your life as an editor for your local newspaper, it's a bad idea to act as the editor of your own work. Do as much editing as you can on your end then contract an outside editor to go through the whole manuscript. Be sure it's someone that is accustomed to real content editing and not just proofing/spell checking. The editor will ultimately help turn your book into a streamlined readable work. Not working with an editor foreshadows failure.
ISBN Numbers - can be purchased in blocks from RR Bowkers.. sorta like IP addresses. Anyway, if you're going to self-publish, you're going to want your own ISBN numbers. Some of these all encompassing services will offer to put an ISBN number on your work; avoi
For whatever it's worth, John Derbyshire self-published his second novel (his first novel, and his subsequent pop-math book about Prime Number theory were published traditionally, and have been modest successes) using a Print-on-Demand shop. His account of the whole self-publishing experience (he's generally happy about it) can be read here.
Having read half a dozen of his books, I'd agree with the publishers that turned him down.
Yes, he's popular, but so are Windows 98 and Brittany Spears, and soap operas.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
No, they're not worth hundreds of dollars, because lulu will do it for free. There are still some kinks in their process, but they have pretty good customer support and a great attitude.
I am wary of self-publishing generally, but I have heard good things of Lightning Source.
The YA novel Eragon was published by Lightning Source, and was subsequently purchased by Knopf. Eragon was written by Christopher Paolini, who was 15 when he started the novel, and 18 when it was published. It has recently been optioned as a feature film, and is actually remarkably well-written, especially for a novel in the fantasy genre (irrespective of the author's age).
Anyway, google Christopher Paolini. He seems to speak highly of Lightning Source.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
If you just want a book with your name on it check out places like bookprinter.com they're just a printer, but have decent prices for only a few copies. That said, printing anything professionally, covered and bound is 300-500 just to set up the proof copy...you get a better deal if you buy at least 1000. Of course you're looking at $2k-$5k minimum...if you can't get published, consider it an expensive hobby!
OK, let's assume it's #2, and you really think your book has something special to say, and your main goal is to get it to some readers without losing an arm and a leg. Then I'd suggest simply putting the PDF online and bypassing the whole print publishing thing. If you do a good job promoting your web site, you may reach 100-1000 readers a year, and you'll do it without losing your shirt.
The reason self-publishing has worked for me is that I am able to reach physics professors through the web and inexpensive print advertising in trade journals. Basically I try to get them to come to my site and download the PDFs to see if they like them. All it takes is one professor who likes them, and then I get a wholesale order for 20 or 200 books. I hired a printer, paid him a bunch of money, and filled my closets with books. I'd recommend against the vanity publishers; they take a really hefty chunk of your money. Although my method has worked for me, it's been capital-intensive --- right now I have about $10,000 worth of inventory in my house. (For tax purposes, you're supposed to account for inventory at the price you paid for it.)
Find free books.
I don't like to write "his or her" all the time so I choose one at random.
I believe his recent book, Pragmatic Version Control, is self-published. Last I heard, he was in his garage boxing up orders, due to a really large spike that arose from the recent book report on /..
He would probably be able to give you considerable insight into the process.