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Comcast Targets Internet "Abusers"

An anonymous reader writes "Here's a great Associated Press story on Comcast's invisible caps. The company has been threatening and then cutting off customers who 'abuse' their so-called 'unlimited' service by downloading too much. But Comcast won't reveal what the limits are. DSL Reports has been tracking this for a while, and it's good to see the mainstream press catch on."

64 of 628 comments (clear)

  1. My thoughts on the matter... by Seek_1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    if( $provider_caps_unlimited_service )
    {
    while( $providers_without_caps.length > 1 )
    {
    switch_providers($providers_without_caps[0]);
    }
    }

    1. Re:My thoughts on the matter... by FoogyFoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you may want to replace that while with an if.

      otherwise, you'll be switching providers a lot...

  2. Re:Comca$t MyCrow$oft Connection by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    DSL is great... As long as you don't mind paying more for less. Seriously, does any DSL provider offer 3MBps max for $50 a month? And without PPoE or some crap like that?

  3. My thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I run a small ISP, and I can put an end to all this speculation regarding the use of the word "unlimited" -- assuming anybody actually cares.

    The reason ISP's use the word "unlimited" in their advertisements is because it sells more accounts than if they don't.

    The fact that they are lying is really not a relevant point. Consumers will flock to the guy that says "unlimited" in his advertisements regardless if it's the truth or not. Consumers don't think that hard about the issue.

    It should be obvious that you can't provide a dedicated "unlimited" 56K connection profitably at the $10-$15/mo market rate, but you will sell a lot more accounts if you say "unlimited".

    This is also true in the web hosting business. I see advertisements for "Unlimited Bandwitdh" web hosting all the time. But we all know that this is neither physically possible nor economically possible. Still people sign up for these lies.

    Guys like me that run businesses that want to be honest about things are punished for our truthfullness. Consumers demand to be lied to. So ISP's are forced to choose between significantly lower sales and being dishonest.

    Now, I'm not saying that there aren't ISPs that try to be honest in their offerings. I could give you a list of honest ones that don't use the word unlimited unless they mean it. All I'm saying is that dialup consumers do not typicaly choose these honest guys when they see an "unlimited" offer for the same price.

    1. Re:My thoughts by 74nova · · Score: 3, Interesting

      is it really possible to abuse a 56k connection? as i recall, it was barely possible to actually surf the web(yes, im spoiled by my cable at home and lan at work, rarely am i limited by my end), let alone download massive amounts of software, etc.

      is it just a matter of $10-15 is not enough to pay for very much at all?

      --
      use your turn signal! you people act like it's divulging information to the enemy
    2. Re:My thoughts by rjelks · · Score: 4, Funny

      I guess that's why so many sites with "unlimited" bandwidth hosting get slashdotted.

      -

    3. Re:My thoughts by AstrumPreliator · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Wouldn't this be considered false advertising though? I mean if you say unlimited you can't just go back on it because it isn't economically feasible. If a company told me I had unlimited bandwidth and then sent me a letter that I exceeded my bandwidth limitation I would be pretty irate. I would be especially pissed because not only are they employing false advertising, but even their own AUP that they refer to makes no mention of a bandwidth limitation.

    4. Re:My thoughts by renehollan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Business that say "unlimited" when the service is not unlimited are guilty of fraud.

      --
      You could've hired me.
    5. Re:My thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >It should be obvious that you can't provide a dedicated "unlimited" 56K connection profitably at the $10-$15/mo market rate, but you will sell a lot more accounts if you say "unlimited".

      Nah. Bulk ports are available in quantity for sub $5 per month. Netzero's paid account at $9.95 monthly really is unlimited - nail it up, go nuts, they make up for it on the millions of customers. I wouldn't be unsurprised if other big dialup providers were the same nowdays...

    6. Re:My thoughts by iCEBaLM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Guys like me that run businesses that want to be honest about things are punished for our truthfullness. Consumers demand to be lied to.

      No, consumers actually *want* unlimited access and actually *believe* that's what they're getting. They don't want to worry about how much they download a month, if they get an unlimited account, that's it, they don't worry. It removes yet another potential stressful bill from ones life.

      Companies who advertise unlimited access when it really is not are guity of false advertising and fraud.

    7. Re:My thoughts by cmoss · · Score: 5, Interesting

      if you figure it costs the ISP about $20/month/incoming line it is difficult to make money off someone who is online every night thoughout peak usage.
      When Dialup ISPs first started the rule of thumb was 20-25 customers per line. Not long after you needed 1 line per 8 customers. I would bet it got worse later.

      The "abuse" is not the upstream bandwidth it is tying up the line.

    8. Re:My thoughts by DynaSoar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      AnonyCow sez: "Consumers demand to be lied to."

      WRONG.

      SOME consumers ALLOW themselves to be lied to. The rest of us should not have to expect it just because of them. I demand honesty from those I deal with. If someone's lying to me, they're lying, and the fact that they gtet away with it with some idiots is no reason to excuse it.

      --
      "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    9. Re:My thoughts by nomadic · · Score: 3, Informative

      Only if they charge you extra while the contract is still in effect. If they terminate it and offer you a new one based on your download usage, that's not fraud.

    10. Re:My thoughts by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 5, Insightful


      The reason ISP's use the word "unlimited" in their advertisements is because it sells more accounts than if they don't.

      I don't doubt that that is true. However, you go on to justify it by saying that "the consumers are demanding to be lied to", and that they must be lied to because it's not possible to provide what they were promised.

      Ok. I want you to dig a T1 to my house, so I can really have the bandwidth that I want. In turn, I promise to pay you $1,000/month. Deal? Sign here, please.

      Oh, what? Of course I'm not going to pay you $1,000/month. Where on Earth did you think I could come up with that amount of money? I was just lying to you to get you to do what I wanted; the alternative was to not lie to you, and not get what I wanted, which is not acceptable. You should have known this, so it's really your fault for having believed me. Instead, I'll pay you whatever is left out of my check each month after rent, pizza and beer. And I like a lot of beer.

      Frankly, it's pretty unbelievable that you think this is acceptable--I predict that you won't stay in business long. And that the first time someone tries the same argument on you, you'll cry to a judge. Finally, it's noted that you posted as an AC. Chicken. A little afraid of what your customers would do to you if they knew your real policy?

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    11. Re:My thoughts by forevermore · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Business that say "unlimited" when the service is not unlimited are guilty of fraud.

      Which is probably why "unlimited" internet access means "unlimited time online," not "unlimited bandwidth usage." If you violate their (unspecified) bandwidth usage limits, they feel that they have the right to stop providing you that "unlimited time online." The problem with this is not that they are preventing users from using the advertised "unlimited" but that they are claiming users are in violation of terms that the users can't even find out.

      --
      Do you really need reason for beer? Wingman Brewers
    12. Re:My thoughts by nolife · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no law against this "false advertising." There IS a law against fraud

      Are you sure about that?

      fraud
      1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
      2. A piece of trickery; a trick.

      False advertising IS a form of fraud. The state of NY has specific laws and penalties for false advertising, I'm sure other states do also.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
  4. DVD Newsgroup usage by Eyah....TIMMY · · Score: 3, Informative
    Cox heeded the criticism and soon after started being crystal clear in information circulated to subscribers: limits were set at "30GB of downloads per month, with a maximum of 2GB per day. Uploads are limited to 7.5GB per month, with a maximum of 1GB per day."
    Um, 2 dvds from alt.binaries.dvdr per day, x 30 days is about 300 GB/month. Good thing I'm not with Cox!
    --

    It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. - Rene Descartes (1637)
    1. Re:DVD Newsgroup usage by RajivSLK · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A couple of years ago I got a DSL line from a local company. I felt good about giving my business to a local company rather than the regional telephone company.

      A few months go by and I receive an invoice for ~$80. Apparently, they had modified there agreement to redefine unlimited to mean 6GB/month and were charging $10/GB overages.

      I didn't say anything to them. I called the BBB and the CRTC (Canadian equivalent of the FTC) and when I had a couple of hours free I filed a lawsuit seeking a declaratory judgment stating that I didn't owe them any money, court costs and treble damages for breach of contract. My damages were the cost of having a replacement service installed and business interruptions.

      They ended up paying me $250 plus court costs as a settlement. Although, I still wish I hadn't settled.

  5. I can give up any time by tttonyyy · · Score: 5, Funny

    100 gigabytes a month? I get that from just reloading the /. homepage regularly, dammit!

    --
    biopowered.co.uk - catalytically cracking triglycerides for home automotive use since 2008. Just say no to big oil!
  6. So, what do you tell them, then? by RLiegh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When they come to you and say "you have been abusing your 'unlimited' download quota"? Do you ask them to define what 'unlimited' means? Or do you simply pack up and get another ISP?

    I have that issue with my (dialup) isp, that the isp itself has an unlimited policy, but they forwarded me a nastygram that *they* recieved from their upstream provider during a month where I was downloading iso's heavily.

    So, having other things higher on my to-do list, I let it go; but I'd like slashdots' opinion on how you handle it when "unlimited" means "unlimited up to a certain point"?

  7. First, by certsoft · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They should do something about all those spammers using their service. Seems like about 20% of the spams I run through SpamCop resolve back to Comcast as the email source.

    1. Re:First, by bash_jeremy · · Score: 3, Informative

      That makes perfect sense. They are one of the largest (if not largest) broadband provider in the US. Therefore, a lot of spam is likely to come from them.

  8. All we want is some accountability by Space+cowboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We accept there is no service-level agreement, we accept that we're lower on the food-chain than companies who pay a lot more for their bandwidth, but when a company makes a secret, arbitrary decision to cap you, it gets a bit hard to accept.

    If it were advertised that you get 512/128, xx GB/month, with a charge of $Y for every 10GB over that, everyone would know where they were. This unfortunately will not happen while there is no regulation of how companies advertise their service. If company A says the above, and company B *does* the same, but doesn't say they do, then B will get more customers - all of whom will be pissed off when B caps them...

    Regulation is the way to go.

    Simon

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
    1. Re:All we want is some accountability by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Regulation already exists. It's called "Truth in Advertising." It simply needs to be effectively applied.

      KFG

  9. *SLASHDOT* has been tracking this for a while... by garcia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We have talked about this numerous times on Slashdot before (at least twice). I have posted that what really sucks about it is:

    a) they took over from AT&T, raised prices, forced you to get CATV or pay even higher rates (42.95/45.95 with CATV or 60.95 or 63.95 without)

    b) have little to no competition in the broadband market, especially at the speeds they offer (now 3mbs in most, if not all, areas)

    c) now are able to control their userbase with "invisible" DOWNLOAD caps (not speed caps as some people are confused with) based on a "local average" whatever that is...

    So, they get a bunch of customers becomming one of the largest ISPs and probably *the* largest broadband ISP. They don't like the fact that some users are actually USING their bandwith so they decide to make up near-random numbers so that they can cut you off when they want... Best of all, they can cut you off at any time because you don't have a "contract" with them that you can retaliate against. They can disconnect your service at any time for any reason leaving you with little options for broadband (nevermind reasonably priced connections).

  10. Re:Comca$t MyCrow$oft Connection by AgntOrnge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just becuase they invested in them doesn't mean they are a MS company. Lots of tech companies invest in each other. MS has invested in Xerox in the past, are they now a MS company? You can point the tinfoil hat away now, thanks.

  11. Ditch cable - get Speakeasy by jhoger · · Score: 4, Informative

    I already ditched cable... late last year. With all the viruses Adelphia began dropping ping packets. That was the last straw. They also had a policy against VPNs and hosting services of any kind, and enforced the service block by not allowing inbound port 80 packets.

    I pay more for DSL but I can do whatever I want with it. Speakeasy just rocks.

  12. I'm with Comcast by buck_wild · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They used to be AT&T until mid 2003. I've never had any issues with them, and I've been downloading lots of files, all of the time.

    I work from home, and download large (several gigs apiece) drawings and presentations on a daily basis. One of my jobs is to proof them, and then send them on to the appropriate folks. So I would upload the same amount of data, just about.

    I'm not sure how I would know that Comcast has issues with me, other than getting a letter. My service is extremely reliable, and I've never had a download or upload fail...

    --
    If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
  13. Ummm. by Skiron · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nothing to do with obscure ISP bandwidth usage, but HOW is Joe Bloggs winders user know what their bandwidth usage is? In all honesty, 90% of people haven't a clue what that means - that's why they still execute attachments in outlook without a second thought. Nick

  14. A few words from Comcast subscribers by rjelks · · Score: 3, Informative

    In the dslreports forums this has been a hot topic for a couple of months. If you want and interesting read, along with a lot of rants, check out this thread. I don't think I've seen such a long one before and it's the second one on the subject.

  15. Re:Comca$t MyCrow$oft Connection by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not sure how widely known this is, but Comcast is a Microsoft company.

    Um, no.

    Microsoft also invested $150 million in Apple a few years ago... does that mean when you buy a G5 or iPod you're buying a Microsoft product?

  16. Caps arent exactly low by Neppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article says that some of the abusers who are getting these warnings/disconnections are moving upwards of 1 terrabyte of data/month. Thats more than "downloading a lot" and it seems to me that if someone is moving that much data they should probably look into something other than basic broadband service. 1 terrabyte/mo is about 414 kilobyte/sec which is a pretty insane rate to be downloading stuff. Clearly these guys are running servers and whatnot which is not what the residential accounts are for - I have zero sympathy for someone who uses more than 400k/sec of data and then gets disconected from a residential account.

    1. Re:Caps arent exactly low by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      1TB/month would be about 3Mbps for the entire month (in other words fully saturated). That seems unlikely, but I suppose if someone was sufficiently determined it could happen.

      On the other hand, at 100GB per month, they're only using 10% of their capacity, but apparently that's the threshold of 'abuse'.

      Of course, the real problem is that they give their customers no way to know what they've actually used, and won't tell them what constitutes 'abuse'. I don't think many would guess that a mere 10% utilization would constitute abuse.

  17. Re:*SLASHDOT* has been tracking this for a while.. by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    they are based on a local average... So if you live in a college-kid infested town you are likely to be in an area w/a higher average. If you live in an area of middle-aged to older-aged individuals who use the service for fast checks to yahoo and comcast.net then the average will be much lower.

    The fact that they can't a) tell you how much you have downloaded, b) refuse to tell you what their # is, and c) don't think that they need to tell you is what makes it unfair.

    If you are going to shut people off you need to give them a tool that tracks it, allow them to call up and ask a CSR for the current bandwith usage, and also know what the cap is.

  18. Just a couple weeks ago... by Idealius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I got Comcast cable and specifically asked the cable guy hooking it up what the bandwidth limit for each month was (being educated from a previous slashdot article :) He kinda blew it off with some answer to a question I didn't ask. I asked him a little later after he hooked it up and he told me that the only people that have ever given him a straight answer on that were the people at Avaya.

    Sooooo, I'm not sure if that applies nation-wide or if that's just local -- but either way -- find out who ACTUALLY provides the bandwidth to Comcast and then ask THEM what the limit is...

    Hope this helps.

  19. This plus a price spike?! by mod_parent_down · · Score: 3, Insightful
    They tacked on an extra $12 to my cable internet bill this past month, so I called them up and fired them immediately, and then ordered DSL instead. It's slower, but I just can't stand a company that thinks they can lie about what they provide, and then gouge you for believing it.

    C'mon, 60 bucks for an internet-only subscription?! You're out of your mind.

  20. Actually, it's not that hard to get the info... by double-oh+three · · Score: 5, Informative

    I did manage to get the info about what constitutes a breakage of the caps policy when I called their tech support line...

    After a quick call to their tech support line, the guy said that the following would flag you as excessive for a residential downloader. 8 gbytes downloads over 20 hours and/or downloading enough to cause problems for other people in the service area. He also said that it shouldn't raise a flag if it's something like 3 gbytes/day for a month. Also, they mostly instituted these policies as a way to make sure that no one person was hogging enough of the pipe to make other cable users connections slow.

    --
    "For years, I struggled with reality... but I'm happy to say I finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd
  21. Is this a TRUTH IN ADVERTISING issue? by msimm · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Seems like a possible FTC issue. Heres the FAQ with some info for businesses: truth-in-advertising rules.

    Snip!
    According to the FTC's Deception Policy Statement, an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement - or omits information - that:
    * is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances; and
    * is "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product.
    Emphasis mine. Sounds like Comcasts legal team broke into the nitrous oxide again. ;-)
    --
    Quack, quack.
  22. They've been doing this for years by JediDan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A lot of dialup providers have always sold 'unlimited' dialup with the footnote that unlimited equates to a maximum of 12 hours a day and maximum connection time of 2-4 hours in a session.

    I suggest charging a minimum fee for the connection itself and start charging more for the service used.

    The phone companies (as much as we love/hate them) have a pretty good system worked out for $20/mo you get a local phone line that includes emergency access and whatnot.

    ISP's could probably swing a connection for $20/mo with (oh I don't know) 50-75 gb of transfer. Best to make it symetrical traffic too. Then, when someones goes over it, charge them per gb of traffic.

    This addresses a few problems:
    * People complaining highspeed is too expensive
    * ISP's taking a hit because not many people sign up
    * People/ISP's happy with a balance of traffic vs billing

    --
    - Dan
  23. You cannot actually deliver a letter . . . by kfg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    from NYC to LA for $.37.

    People who send first class mail from NYC to LA are not "abusing the system."

    The system takes such matters into account when it sets the postage price.

    The phone company acts in similar ways when it sets its price for unlimited local calling. Some people talk more, some never seem to stop talking.

    One can send certain kinds of mail at lower than first class rates if one wishes. Just as one can obtain limited calling at additional fees per call. You may assess your own usage and determine which might be the better deal for you, thus those whose usage is expected to be high naturally pay a premium for the premium service and such service can be expected to attract such users.

    The populace understands this system and when they see "unlimited" assume this is the sort of averaged pricing structure they are dealing with, and they have every right to do so.

    The ISPs know full well what the public thinks they are getting when they advertise their service as "unlimited," thus, if that is not actually what they intend to deliver they are, in the technical language that applies to such legal matters, "Lying Bastards" and should be treated as such.

    KFG

  24. Hijacked Proxies by Akai · · Score: 4, Informative

    Keep in mind what you're seeing is most likely hijacked PCs or open proxies.

    Computer hijackers have learned that 24/8, 12/8, and other cable-modem IP ranges are primed for abuse, so they forward spam through them like there's no tomorrow.

    Whem a spam is send through an open proxy, the proxy, not the originator's IP is shown. This is different than using an open relay to send spam, which does leave a trail.

    This is why providers to the unwashed masses of consumers who just want their pr0n and cheese should enforce some kind of interception of outgoing traffic destined for 25/tcp, at least to track stats, since there are very easy thresholds to set to raise flags (messages per minute for example) and have staffers check them out.

    --
    Please send all UCE to scally@devolution.com so I can f
  25. I am worried by superpulpsicle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When I play online games, the bandwidth is just plain insane. I did an estimate once with some network monitoring tool and it came to some 1 to 3 gigs worth of transfer over a 12 hr period.

    If comcast said I can't play games, I am better off discontinuing the service. Why else would I need that much bandwidth.

  26. Hey, if it gets the job done... by KC7GR · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comcast has a HUGE problem right now with hundreds (if not more) of virus-compromised systems, run by the clue-deprived who have not the slightest inkling about the most basic Internet security.

    These machines have long since been compromised, and turned into spammer 'zombies.' The problem has gotten bad enough that I've blocked access to our mail systems from ANY system with a domain name ending in 'client.comcast.net,' not to mention huge swaths of Comcast-controlled IP space.

    If this 'crackdown' that Comcast is doing helps to get rid of a bunch of these spammer 'zombies,' great! It'll be that much less to worry about.

    Granted, if Comcast's so-called "Abuse Desk" even gave a crap about the massive amounts of bit pollution their network is pouring out, they wouldn't have any problems with "abusers" to begin with.

    Keep the peace(es).

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

    1. Re:Hey, if it gets the job done... by firewood · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Comcast has a HUGE problem right now with hundreds (if not more) of virus-compromised systems, run by the clue-deprived who have not the slightest inkling about the most basic Internet security.

      These machines have long since been compromised, and turned into spammer 'zombies.'

      Is there an easy way for an ISP to prove if a PC has been compromised in one of the more common ways, and it working as a zombie relay?

      If so there is a great opportunity here to help solve the govenment budget crisis. Amend the various "attractive nuisance" laws to allow the city or state to cite people for running a compromised system (similar to a traffic ticket). ISP's might be glad to turn in these customers to reduce the load on thier networks. Smart customers (the kind who fasten their seatbelt for a short trip to the corner landromat) will have firewalls and/or virus scanners installed, so this will mostly be a tax on stupidity. Anyone councilman/representative who trys to fight the passing of a law like this can be labeled as a spam supporter.

  27. Re:Comca$t MyCrow$oft Connection by mcocke · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, my speed isn't 3MBs - I'm up against the laws of physics, being within 50 feet of the farthest you can be from the CO and still get DSL... But I pay a lot less than $50.00 per month, and I have a static IP 768/384K with downtime less than 1 hour per year.

    On my DSL line, No one gives a hang what I run. I have my own DNS, mail and web (hosting 3 domains) servers, and a bunch of other stuff.

    I tried a cable modem recently - Cablevision. (technically Lightpath - I paid extra for "business class service"). Static IP: not available, dynamic only. Inbound Port 80: blocked. The IP address was registered somwehere - damned if I could figure out where - as a dynamic IP, so half the internet was blocking mail from my servers. Reliability: Down around 2 hours a week. Price: 3 times what the DSL line costs.

    Oh yeah, sell me another cable modem... when hell freezes over. DSL is the way to do it.

  28. Changes in usage patterns by xant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would have modded you insightful if I didn't want to respond so badly.

    The problem that ISPs are now dealing with is that their calculations which made the "unlimited" label economically feasible in the late 90's are now way off. P2P has exploded; so has the net's general usefulness and the net-savviness of the average user; so has Internet publishing of every kind. That "unlimited" word started appearing before google became a verb, before blogging became popular, before people needed the term "file sharing".

    The middle of the bandwidth bellcurve has moved up dramatically in those few years, and the company has to take into account the new median bandwidth usage, but they haven't. Ethical ways to do this would be:
    1) Put pressure on upstream bandwidth infrastructure to lower their prices
    2) Raise prices to consumers taking into account the new usage rates
    3) Stop advertising unlimited service and charge the same rates

    They of course chose (4), continue to do business the way we always have, and bill unsuspecting customers.

    They'll get their comeuppance for this.

    --
    It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
  29. i've had no problems with comcast so far by ALpaca2500 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    i have comcast cable internet. (previously AT&T broadband). the only thing that changed from at&t was they discontinued unlimited usenet transfers, and outsourced to giganews. on my comcast connection, i transfer all sorts of files, both uploading and downloading. many many gigabytes per month. running web, ftp, email, kdx, and other servers. downloading all sorts of audio and video, linux and other ISOs. maybe 25-50 GB total up and down? they've never complained to me about it...

    in the article, it says they wouldnt tell this person how much they had downloadloaded, and how much was acceptable. so, based on that, how can they expect him to comply?

  30. Why DSL is the way to go... by EmagGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... if it's available in your area. I have two DSL providers, DCAnet and, of course, Speakeasy. I love them both - they're always great to work with and are very responsive to my needs. I have two lines, a Covad and a Verizon, through DCA and one Covad line through Speakeasy. I've never once had a problem with either, and I've had these lines for a combined total of 5 line-years.

    I routinely exceed what comcast calls a "reasonable" limit (30GB/month down and 7.5GB/month up, wasn't it?). Not only do I exceed that, I blow it away - never heard a peep out of either of them...

    I have a theory about why Comcast is trying to choke off their Internet users. They recently had to double the downrate to compete with DSL, thinking that offering twice the downstream would make the extra expense worth it... However, they're also trying to ramp up their On-Demand movie service, which is far more profitable to them. So, it makes sense to try to reserve as much of their shared bandwidth as possible for movies rather than for Internet users. I would not be surprised in the least if they lowered those caps at some point, as there is a finite amount of information a single shared cable can carry...

    Just a thought..

  31. Forevermore hits it right on the head by Vaevictis666 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This is exactly true - the Unlimited is Unlimited access time, but the providers would be stupid to correct customers mistakenly thinking that is is Unlimited bandwidth.

    They're not doing false advertising, they're just not correcting misconceptions about it.

  32. All cable providers are not equal by macemoneta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article should point out that not all cable providers are as bad as Comcast.

    Cablevision's Optimum Online service, which I use in NJ, is outstanding. They do NOT cap their service (8Mb down, 1Mb up). While I consider myself to be a heavy user, I have NEVER had a problem with my usage (unchanged over the last 4 years).

    One way that cable providers can make customers happy, and reduce their costs, is to make newsgroups available (and educate their customers about them). This is an alternative, safer way for customers to get the media files they would otherwise go to P2P applications for. Since the news server is "on net" the ISP does not have to pay anyone else for the bandwidth.

    Comcast's actions aren't just customer hostile, they show a lack of business acumen and technical skill. If I were in their area, I'd opt for any other provider (even multiple dialip lines if it came to that).

    --

    Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.

  33. They did tell me what the limit was, ostensibly. by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Informative
    I am a comcast customer. I got an abuse letter. After I called around for a while, I got someone at Comcast to tell me that the limit (for me) was 90GB/mo. He said that if I use less than 90GB/mo then I would not be terminated. So, I installed MRTG and I watch my average downstream, if it gets too high then I slim back. According to my calculations if I peaked out at all times I should be able to do 550GB/mo, so I just run around 20% or lower, and I figure that's good enough.

    Comcast is, however, full of shit. They claim that they only send people abuse letters when someone in their neighborhood complains. First of all, each DOCSIS cable modem gets its own set of frequencies to download on. Your downstream bandwidth is not shared. Let me say that again; downstream bandwidth is not shared. So downloading cannot degrade anyone's performance unless they are oversubscribing. Upstream bandwidth is shared, there is only a total of 11Mbps upstream for everyone on your segment. However, I know from experience (working in a DOCSIS Cable Modem QA/Dev lab for Cisco in Santa Cruz) that there are line cards which increase the number of upstream channels. For example, Cisco's MC16 line card has one downstream interface (which goes into an up converter to be converted into the proper frequencies) and six upstream; the frequencies for upstream can be split off in six groups and fed into those six interfaces.

    I have never had a time when I could not pull down a solid 1.8Mbps (my current cap) over my link. If somehow my downloading was degrading service for others, then my performance would suffer as well. This is not happening, and has never happened. Therefore, I conclude that someone called in with a problem that Comcast either couldn't figure out how to resolve, or doesn't want to pay to resolve (bad coax between the user and the little green box on the corner, say) and Comcast just used it as more ammunition for their witch hunt against those who use the most bandwidth. The truth, I suspect, is that they simply don't want to pay for that bandwidth. I respect that, but I don't like being lied to, which is clearly what's going on here.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  34. You're not honest ENOUGH! by GuyMannDude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Guys like me that run businesses that want to be honest about things are punished for our truthfullness. Consumers demand to be lied to. So ISP's are forced to choose between significantly lower sales and being dishonest.

    Actually, I think the problem here really is that you are not BRUTUALLY honest. If you are serious about wanting to run an honest business, why don't you go all out? In your advertisements you should point out the blatant lies of your competitors. Point out that there is no such thing as 'unlimited' internet access right in your ads! Then go further and suggest that if your competitors don't respect the intelligence of the average joe before they get the money, how could you possibly trust them to respect the customer AFTER they already have the money?

    You're in an uncomfortable position right now: you're in the half-way point. In tennis it is called "no man's land" -- the area between the baseline and the net. You haven't committed to one course of action or another and end up getting stranded in a position worse than either option. You need to decide whether you are going to be brutally honest or a deceiver like everyone else. Don't try to play a happy medium. You're not going to be very happy if you do that for very long.

    Just make damn sure that everything you say in your ads is the truth otherwise their lawyers are going to come down on you like a ton of bricks. Be truthful and what are they going to do: sue you for telling the truth? If they take you to court you can countersue and make some dough.

    GMD

  35. Re:ISO's over DIALUP??? by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Funny

    well that wasn't so funny as the guy getting a NOTICE FOR USING TOO MUCH BANDWITH WITH A FRIGGIN MODEM.

    If that isn't hilarious I don't know what is..

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  36. 2 DVDs a DAY? Are you nuts? by GuyMannDude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Um, 2 dvds from alt.binaries.dvdr per day, x 30 days is about 300 GB/month. Good thing I'm not with Cox!

    I've been known to download video files from time to time but 2 DVDs per day is way, way too much. Unless you are also watching 2 of those DVDs each day, you must be building up one hell of a stockpile to films to watch.

    30 GB/month is pretty generous for a home account. Anything more than that and you really should be on a business account.

    2 DVDs a day is abuse. Did you even stop to think about what downloading like that must do for the other poor saps who have to share a local connection with you? I, for one, am glad that Cox puts limits on how much people download. I don't want my cable connection to turn to shit just because some jackass wants to download 2 DVDs a day!

    GMD

  37. Re:Comca$t MyCrow$oft Connection by SScorpio · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Depends on what you mean by more for less. For $26.95 I can get 1.5Mbps down / 256Kpbs up from SBC DSL. And with 3Mbps cable going for $45-$50 while only offering 256-384Kbps UP, the $20-$25 saving is nice if you don't need a constand 3Mbps most people won't see in normal usage.

  38. Re:Crap like this kept me off COmcast for years by NormalVisual · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This article is describing a bandwidth hog pure and simple. My heart does not bleed for him. Excessive bandwidth is not a "right", it really does amount to "abuse".

    I would agree, and I would also agree that it's the ISP's right to throttle bandwidth. However, it's absolutely imperative that the ISP be very upfront about this. They need to stop going around advertising "unlimited usage" when in fact that's not what they're offering. They need to advertise that there are caps, and what those caps are. They also should provide their users with a means to see what their usage for the month is.

    ISPs have the right to regulate the use of their own equipment, but advertising unlimited usage when it's not is fraudulent.

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  39. Imitation is the highest form of flattery? by Kethinov · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Uhm okay, I don't know who the fuck thinks it's funny to plaigiarize my writing, but I am the original author of this essay. I wrote it on January 8th of this year, the original text can be found here.

    Hmm. I don't know whether or not to say "mod parent down!" After all, it got a freakin' +5. In a way, now I almost wish I thought of copy/pasting my rant to Slashdot first. A pity. Could have done wonders for my karma ;)

    --
    You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
  40. Re: Unlimited access, is it? by value_added · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Reminds me of what some senator said not so long ago with respect to the state of health care in the U.S. -- everyone (including the poorest of the poor) has access to health care in the same way that everyone has access to the new Cadillac sitting in a showroom.

    If it's all about access, then I'm sure when I go out for the evening tommorrow I'll be accessing hundreds of available women.

  41. All accounts are limited by DDumitru · · Score: 3, Informative

    All internet accounts are limited:

    Dial UP 28K up 53.6K down 295Meg/day up 564meg/day down

    DSL 128K up 384K down 1.3Gig/day up 4Gig/day down

    Cable 256K up 3M down 2.7Gig/day up 31gig/day down

    So using the Cox numbers (Cox is who I have and I want to compliment them on giving out honest numbers), this is:

    Upload: 67 hours of max uploads/month or 9% duty cycle
    Download: 39 hours of max downloads/month or 5% duty cycle

    So they are working against about a 5 to 10% duty cycle. If you are using the service for "interactive" usage and not "automated" usage, then the limits are "way out there". If you want to run bittorent or kazaa, then you are hosed, but these are not "interactive" usage.

    For non-server usage this is a lot. Lets say you listen to internet radio at 48K/sec. Even at 24 hours/day, this is only 14Gig or less than 50% of the usage limit.

  42. Comcast - an absolute disaster internally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've done some work for Comcast, and have seen first hand how the company operates. It's absolutely mind blowing that they manage to make money at all, considering the pack of morons that run the the place, at least at the IT level.

    For example, until a ~18 months ago, their entire network was publically exposed. I mean, their ENTIRE CORPORATE NETWORK. Servers, desktops, printers, etc., everything, on the internet, publically accessable. When I suggested that this was bad, I was given a look like just pissed on someone's face.

    They brought in Accenture to do their broadband network, after the AtHome collapse (amusing in itself) which may account for it's not being entirely fucked up.

    Oh, a little tip to get reductions in the price of your cable bill: call and complain. Just call, bitch at someone, and they'll usually give you a $25 credit to placate you. I personally know someone who does this EVERY MONTH. They can't track who's called, or when, or how many times they've given credits to people (software problems). That and, if you just get cable internet, you get free cable TV to boot - they can't block the TV and still provide the broadband.

    I'm a (small) stockholder in this company (had ATT stock before the merger), but I encourage people to take as much money from these schmucks as you can. They deserve it, and maybe it'll prompt the massive firings of staff they need to fix the company.

  43. Fuzzy math. by pb · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "some abusers, he said, consume more than a terabyte of data each month"

    "Comcast and several other cable firms are doubling their top download speeds to 3 megabits per second"

    From google: (1 terabyte) / (3 (megabits per second)) = 1.0632985 months

    Therefore, before they raised their caps, it would take you over two months to download one terabyte. Afterwards, it would *still* take you more than a month.

    ...something smells fishy here...

    --
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
  44. Re:I repeat: You haven't read the agreement. by Ironica · · Score: 3, Informative

    I will agree that, no, they have not stated that they have maximums. However, they are stating very clearly that you are not guaranteed, well, anything, and your are EXPLICITLY not guaranteed any amount of speed or consistent service.

    I don't think you really understand what Comcast is telling these people.

    It's not that someone is overusing the service, so Comcast is limiting them, and then they're complaining "But, wait, it's unlimited, waaaaa!" It's that they're overusing the service, and Comcast tells them to stop, so they say "Ok, what does that mean?" and no answer. "How much bandwidth am I using?" No way to find out. "How much bandwidth is acceptable?" No one will say. When Comcast says these users are using about 100 times the average bandwidth, the question is "Ok, so what's the average?" and they won't reveal it. The issue is not that people are demanding a particular level of service that Comcast says is unreasonble, the issue is that Comcast has established a reasonable level of service and won't share that information with the folks that are exceeding it. They are not making it *possible* to deliberately stay within the limits... they only want the customers who will do it by accident, which is disingenuous at best.

    Also, the folks who are saying "It's not possible to use that much bandwidth unless you're doing X Y and Z that you're not supposed to" are highly unimaginative. My best friend and her husband are having their first child in April, and his family are in England. If they get a digital video camera, how much data do you think they'll be sending across the Atlantic? When you get into high-quality images and full-motion video, you jump into a different ballpark. Just one 8x10 TIFF image at print-resolution is 16 MB. What if you want to send or receive a whole roll of them? You've burned 400 MB right there. People can send MP3s that are perfectly legal... sharing their own music (that they wrote & performed) with friends and family. You combine a couple or three people with these unusual bandwidth-sucking hobbies or habits into one household, and you *can* exceed the limits while in line with the law. Then on top of that, Comcast won't tell you what the limit is, or how much you've exceeded it by. It makes compliance a bit difficult.

    --
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
  45. Meanwhile, in the rest of the world by obeythefist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I still say they have it way too good in the USA. Sure, things are getting a little more restrictve, but nonetheless.

    Let me tell you how it is in Australia! When Telstra, our telecommunication overlord and monopoly release ADSL for all us little punters, you could get it at a tremendous cost, and they gave you a whole 300MB quota. Then they charged you a significant rate per MB after that. It's taken about 2 years to creep up to 1GB for the basic Telstra plan.

    After Telstra was forced by various competition enforcement bodies, third parties are allowed to sell internet services over Telstras local loop. However, Telstra charges incredibly high prices for these services and there are terrible delays. These brave smaller ISPs are able to offer reasonably high limits, starting around 3GB and going anywhere up to 16GB (if you want to pay for it). ISP's will either charge /MB over the limit, or shape the account down to around 56k (varies from provider to provider).

    There are a few groups of ISP's with peering agreements, these make the very low limits on Australian broadband tolerable.

    Some ISP's do offer unlimited, however there are a couple of provisos.. if you use too much bandwidth, your priority for connections declines and so does your general quality of service.

    The primary real reason behind this is that the USA offers, I don't know, something like 1GB of traffic to Australia, and charges like crazy for the rest, generally bringing most countries who wish to communicate with the USA to their knees.

    If you want to see how the rest of the world lives, have a look at http://whirlpool.net.au - it might open your eyes up a little.

    --
    I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
  46. Dubious claims... by Eivind · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "A senior Comcast technician...but some abusers, he said, consume more than a terabyte of data each month"

    That is simply not possible with a standard cable-connection, of the type Comcast sells as far as I can see from their website. They say they sell "25 times modem connection", and specify that with modem they mean 56K, so, they sell 1400Kbps, upload is capped at 256Kbps.

    Thing is, with that speed, even at *full* download around the clock, the entire month, you would end up with around 420 GB in a month. This is very much, but it is not "over a terabyte"