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Why Open Source Makes Sense For Handhelds
Guylhem writes "Are you still wondering why you should prefer an handheld running free software over one running Palm OS or Windows CE? Here's a short article to explain the main reasons you should consider.
The most important are sustainability and freedom: you don't want your applications to break when you update your handheld OS or hardware, and you certainly want to decide what *you* may do with your data. Palm and Pocket PC's DRM protected and obscure formats stand in your way. That's another good reason to prefer free software: you have the source code so you can develop plug ins to read such obscure formats. Even better - you can stick to standards formats such as divx which are poorly supported on handhelds running proprietary software." On the topic of handhelds, tanmay submits brighthand.com's small chart of some upcoming handhelds and smart phones that may be launched in the coming months.
Let's make a table: Handheld Platform: Porting Effort Linux/X11 (handhelds.org, Yopy): trivial (some layout changes) Linux-QPE (Zaurus): modest (reuse libraries, rewrite GUI) PocketPC: significant (lots of API limitations relative to XP) PalmOS: extreme (can't write all-native apps, memory limits, no file system, no resizeable windows, no layout manager, no multitasking, no standard APIs). Ironic, isn't it, that popularity is inversely proportional to difficulty of software development? Of course, that's a pretty general rule. Now, why is that? Well, look at this news item. When someone ports a Commodore 64 emulator to a Linux/X11 handheld, it's not news because it's so trivial. When someone ports it to PalmOS, it's big news. I once ported a web browser to a Linux/X11 handheld, and that wasn't news either. You still can't get anything of comparable quality for PalmOS, and so every junky PalmOS web browser is a news item. Bad OS platforms make for good press, lots of business opportunities, and lots of PR. Programmers feel proud when they have mastered a bad platform and managed to create the tiniest app for a bad platform. That's why PalmOS and Windows XP keep winning in the market. What to do about it, I don't know.
When I buy a PDA I chose it for functionality, not freedom (whatever) or sustainability. Why should I care if I can get free updates to a PDA in five years when it probably still wont be able to do what my Microsoft or Palm PDA can do today? I?ve looked at the Linux PDAs and I just don?t see the point. They have all the complexity and failings of UNIX with no software and limited compatibility.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
This is slashdot...don't we all already think opensource is right for handhelds?
As the news story said obscure file formats are a big nuisance. Free and opensource on the handhelds will start great things into action. Easier to transport things from one to the other and eventually probably lead to handheld devices becoming more popular.
A good mirror is here... mirror. Now, I only need source of PalmOS :)
Carefully crafted sig.
...arguments that apply equally to handhelds and to full-sized computers. Why should it be any more important that you have the extra control/privacy that OSS provides on your portable than on any other computer?
Nice plagarism of Guylhem Aznar's 1/29/04 article at linuxdevcenter!
That's another good reason to prefer free software: you have the source code so you can develop plug ins to read such obscure formats.
Somehow I don't think that 99% of handheld users are developers (or at least develop software for handhelds). Whilst modification is a good reason to use open source for people like myself (who program for a living), it's probably the least compelling reason for most.
Go here for teh [sic] funny.
Just because a Linux-based PDA is not as "friendly" to newbies as PalmOS or Windows CE means nothing. "No software" is just a plain lie, btw. Look here for evidence.
You seem to forget the fact that PDA's are very open to development. There are Divx players for both Palm and PocketPCs. People have ported version's of GCC that run on the actual device. Open Source is one of the greatest achievements of PDAs, how do you think we got quake running on pocketpc's? You also seem to forget that if these closed source Operating Systems never existed, these PDA's would never exist either, You cant depend on Open Source nuts to develop an intuitive User Interface. Look at Mac OS X vs Linux. Yeah, both are just as powerful as each other, but Mac OS X's UI is light years ahead of any GUI for linux, and you know what, Aqua is a closed source GUI developed by a commercial company. For PDA's, The UI is even more important then the power of the OS, people want a UI that allows them to get their work done as efficiently as possible, they dont give a rat's ass if its open source or not. People wouldnt buy PDA's if they had clunky UI's, thankfully because of Palm, they managed to develop a GUI that is semi-decent, yet its not amazing yet. The good thing is though that these companies have money they can burn on R&D to develop the OS and make it more intuitive. Open Source is not the greatest thing for PDAs. Not to mention, there is a Linux port for some PocketPCs, and you know what? It sucks compared to Windows Mobile 2003, in every regard. Open Source this, Open Source that, you people forget why people actually use computers.
Yeah Open Source is the ticket. Why would you want to be able to choose from some 17,000 PalmOS apps? Too many software choices, it's overwhelming! And PalmOS apps are designed for PalmOS. Why would you want purpose-designed handheld apps when you can get ports of apps designed for a 19" monitor? That's what scrollbars are for anyhow.
...breaks my other OSS all the time. Conflicting lib requirements/*.SOs, et al. I can't remember the last time some of my Windoze software broke because I installed something else or 'upgraded' or 'patched.'
Now, there's plenty of other reasons why you should use OSS over CSS, but 'breakage' usually isn't one of them unless you are running a machien that is dedicated to a particular task (i.e. web server)
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All the main advantages pointed out are irrelevent. I buy a new PDA every 2 years minimum and pass my old one to family or friends. They don't want to monkey around with open source. I don't need to be get their phone calls asking for help.
More to the point: How long do people actually plan on using a PDA? Who is still carrying around a five year old Palm?
This article is unabashed ideology over smart tech info. Just more incestous amplification for those socially clueless folk who occupy the open source echo chamber.
Article title: "Why Run Free Software on a PDA?" Article host: linuxdevcenter.com Submitter: The article's author.
Though I can't say that I'm surprised, this story is 100% pure troll.
The article makes some legitimate arguments about the benefits of Linux on embedded devices (not Open Source in general), and though it's definitely written with a bias at least that's not disguised.
I don't think the poster even read the article however; the claim that you can't see the source code to WinCE is incorrect, thinking that your applications are any more likely to survive an upgrade intact is laughable (WinCE & PocketPC go through extensive AppCompat testing, who does that for embedded Linux?)
I know, I know, slow news day and a Pro-OSS post came up on the radar, but for cripes sake if you're going to be brutally biased at least try to hide it, you're making the cause look even worse!
Okay, I haven't yet RTFA but I do have a couple of comments. I went from Palm (a Palm III, then a Handspring Visor) over to a Zaurus and now back to Palm with my new Treo 600.
First off, I loved my Zaurus. Still do. I was a college student and it was like having a small laptop with me at all times. I could jump on WiFi networks, play games, listen to music, whatever. What I couldn't do very well was use the Zaurus as an organizer. Sync support varied and was often horrible for Linux. The standard PIM apps were poor and everyone knows it. It was great having tons of free software and even new operating systems to play around with (Opie and OpenZaurus were great), but the Zaurus ended up just being another hobby and toy, not a tool that I could consistently use and rely on.
I went back to a Palm and the Treo600 because I wanted something that would just work. I work on plenty of other open source software. I wanted something that did it's job well and the Treo is amazing. It doesn't have quite the power of the Zaurus or even the screen resolution, but I'm using it as an organizer more than I ever used the Zaurus.
So in the end, I personally think that open source PDA software is still only appropriate for a small niche of technically savvy users. There's nothing wrong with that, but I know when my sister asks me about a PDA for medical school, I'll be suggesting a Palm, not a Zaurus or other open source system.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
One problem is that there are a lot of PDA's that almost no one writes software and have weird/uncommon processors. For example, my Jornada 548 runs on an SH3 processor - I can't run Linux because of the SH3 processor, which no one has written the specific kernel patch for... So, do developers try to develop a uC-Linux based kernel for the SH3 (which I've heard is hard to do) or do they try to write software that replaces the Jornada PIM, and open-source it? (which no one has done yet...) So, now, I'm basically stuck with PocketWord, PocketOutlook, PocketCalendar... and no one is willing to write any software to replace it... jeez, maybe I had best learn how to code for WindowsCE 2000.
> The most important are sustainability and
> freedom...
Are you sure Kofi Annan didn't submit this?
Even better - you can stick to standards formats such as divx which are poorly supported on handhelds running proprietary software.
Hardly. I have been playing DivX files flawlessly which were encoded with the latest codec off of divx.com on my Dell Axim handheld since PPC2002 and now I run it on 2003.
I watch full length movies on it all the time after encoding them for smaller resolution and transfering them to my SD memory card. Divx support? Its available for any pda running windows PPC2002 or 2003.
They are so damn cool.
My C750 Zaurus is one of the best looking PDAs out there (the rest all being Sharp ones too) - miles ahead of any Palm, Sony or HP offering.
As well as being so goddam sexy, it has a much easier to use (for mobile computing purposes) interface than the PocketPC as well as one that is more flexible than the Palm which I find to restrictive. (Since mine is more than a productiviy tool, I use it more like a mini laptop.)
Throw in Bluetooth and WiFi (which you can use at the same time _as well_ as a SD memory card - try that with another device) for less than $600, all in a box that fits in a pocket and is reasonably robust, with 5 hours battery life... it's hard to say no.
Beep beep.
PDAs are all about the UI. Once certain other standards are met (i.e. not losing data, synching ok) then everything else is secondary.
...not sure how the Opensource options are doing, I'm not sure I've ever even seen one in the wild, come to think of it.
Palm realized this, and built a very friendly UI from the ground up. Microsoft tried to capitalize on its desktop monopoly and scaledown its desktop interface, which was a disaster. I think Microsoft finally started doing a bit better by copying Palm...
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
No they won't put the girls off. My girlfriend stole my Zaurus SL5500 and refuses to give it back, so I had to go out and buy a C750 instead. Oh the pain.
Beep beep.
No, I can't. I do not "code apps", "develop plug-ins", or otherwise design or build software. Nor do I "compile from source". I, like most of the market, am strictly a consumer.
If you would like to see OSS thrive, you do the work. I guarantee that you will get satisfaction. Double, in fact, because not only will your OSS thrive in a competitive market and reduce the power of CSS, but you and people like you will be able to earn a comfortable living along with a well-earned sense of pride.
Go for it. Just don't expect the Great Unwashed like me to be able to code along with you.Something not often touched on is the fact that Palm are a pain in the ass to configure in a corporate environment. Every succeeding version has a different connection method / software and there's simply no easy way to roll out policies for usage. This is as compared to your average CE PDA.
That said, I love my Tungsten T - best handheld I've ever owned.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Because most of the people reading this site read 'Free software' as shorthand for 'free as in speech'. Not free as in beer.
I just realised you're a troll, but never mind. Bah. Well done. I was mildly annoyed for a minute there. Well done. I'm still narked some idiot modded this, though. Bah.
[FUCK BETA]
Because that's the way it's defined, except for MS astroturfers trying to newspeak it.
Most of the major brands, such as toshiba dont have any decent support for linux or netbsd...
Most people really dont have much of a choice but to take what is already loaded...
A choice would be nice
---- Booth was a patriot ----
From the article:
It sells for less than Palms..
What Zaurus is he talking about? The cheapest one is an SL-5500 on Pricewatch for about $350. You can get a Palm Zire for $70 retail. More featured color Palms are $100 more. Granted, SL5500 vs entry level Zire is like a Lexus sedan compared to a 2 door Kia, but since there is no low end Zaurus unit, the statement should have been qualified. I bought a low end Zire because I won't kick myself if I bust it like I did when I stepped on my Palm V 4 years ago. I'd love a Zire but price does play a role in my purchase decisions too.
Freedom of choice is always better, Dude (or Dudette).
I just bought the Sharp Zaurus SL-5600 and it kicks the snot out of my Palm Pilot. It's a few years newer but is still a better machine than the most recent Palms. And when I get the addons sneaked in past the lovely but untrusting Morticia, then I will have far more than had I upgraded the Palm.
Mine came from Amazon.com @ $300.00 - new in the box. This is the best techno trinket I've had years.
Original poster has to be a troll - or his significant other won't let him get the better toy and it's just sour grapes talking.
Too lazy to create a sig...
...turns into something with a simple-fast-and-friendly UI as Palm OS, I will take that OS seriously as an option to PDAs.
At the present time, Linux in my desktop computer, only.
When you get a nice application, you don't think about the company going out of business and the application giving up the ghost, but it does happen.
I got an e-mail from a user of a product (an embadded navigation system) that I worked on 10 years ago. They have no way to get their data out of the system. The company went out of business about 3 years ago and they could not find the CTO.
I use Post Road Mailer, which when the company (Innoval) went out of business , they made the program available, w/o source. There are some bugs I'd like to fix, but I don't have the source.
Fight Spammers!
How easy would it be to get a real standardisation body to draw up a standard for Open Source software?
.....
Obviously, ISO would be the biggie, but maybe it would be more realistic to begin with a national standards body {German DIN [?] for instance} first, even if only to give the others something to use as a template?
What I'm thinking of is a standard literally for openness of source; so claiming compliance with the standard would oblige vendors to certify that they were giving you permission to copy and modify. Standards bodies themselves do not necessarily do the testing {though many will rent you testing facilities}; but rather, publish the specifications -- and a list of approved test procedures -- and anyone can test and certify their own products, though in doing so they are accepting responsibility for the consequences. The standardisation body gets the right to sue you {for misappropriation of trademarks} if you apply its mark to products that do not meet the standard.
A "standards-compliant" sticker on Open Source software might carry some clout with purchasing authorities, too
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
The Zaurus was an amazing critter; but most of its value was in pure Geek Factor. In Windows or in Linux, the Zaurus was interesting but plagued by ongoing random minor issues with synchronization, what version of QPE I was using, what the date was, and how I held my mouth. In Windows or in Linux, the Palm is nearly effortless.
The Zaurus had many neat things. I could log in to it over the network (wireless); I could run a webserver on it; I could do all kinds of system things. But in the end, the actual D of the PDA is much more usable in the Palm. I'd love to have the time and the money to develop replacements for the Palm software to run on the Zaurus, but I simply don't; I need something that works, and works well, right now.
Not to mention the fact that, comparitively, the Zaurus is enormous. It's easily half again as heavy, and an inch longer, and a little thicker, than the tungsten E.
If you go with the commercial QPE (that synchronizes well) functionality is low; if you go with the free embedded GUIs, functionality is high, but interoperability (in the form of synchronization with outlook and evolution) is low. Even with all the objections fielded in this discussion, the Palm is like a Sound Blaster - it just works.
And it's sad, too. I love Linux, I love free software, I love the entire Opensource movement, and I wanted to be much more pleased with the Zaurus. I would say, all in all, PDA linux is where desktop linux was at RedHat 5.2. It will get there, eventually.
Thinking outside my Head
How does Linux-based HWR stack up against, say, Symbian's character-based entry or Newton 2.0's print recognizer?
Learning a new way to write is not on my list of things I want to do..
This is the new thing on Slashdot, this is how it works:
1. Post a plagarized post using an AC or trash account you dont care about
2. Point it out as AC (or logged in with a differnt, good account to gain karma).
3. Reap mod points and avoid IP bans.
Microsoft's approach to PocketPC is completely the opposite of how they established DOS and cornered the PC market. DOS was sold as an operating system that would run on anybody's PC, regardless of manufacture. It wasn't what you'd call "open source" but it did open up the hardware platform and provide a common reference point we could build on.
PocketPC, on the other hand, takes an entirely different approach. You're stuck with MS-imposed limitations like a chunky 320x240 screen size and you can't break out of the Windows shell to the underlying lower-level functions. Working with PocketPC has been very frustrating for me; it's got vendor lock-in coming at you from two angles (MS and whichever OEM branded the unit).
With PocketPC, Microsoft has torn a page from Apple's playbook when it comes to product positioning and the complete lack of "freedom to innovate." Unfortunately their design ideas aren't any better than Apple's were a decade ago with the Newton.
If Microsoft truly wanted to compete in the PDA realm, what they need to do is come up with a DOS-equivalent that will run on a Palm or Clie or even a PocketPC. Indeed it's clever how they're pushing the commodity hardware costs onto the OEMs, and all they have to do is come up with the software. (A bit reminiscent of Dell's JIT manufacturing.) But in the long run I think a product that has both a closed software architecture and a closed hardware spec isn't going to fly.
And there's also the bloatware problem. Why should a PocketPC need a 406MHz CPU? A Clie with twice the pixels gets by on a much leaner chip.
I use a Zaurus daily, and I have to dissagree with everyone saying that linux on PDAs doesn't "just work". I'm running OpenZaurus (an alternate OS for the zaurus) and I must say that I have no problems using the PIM applications or even syncing with linux. You're allowed to love Microsoft, no one can stop you, but so far most of the posts regarding linux not standing up against Palm OS or Windows on PDAs just show that the posters have never used a Zaurus.
You say that taking notes should be braindead simple, but take a look at Graphiti, the old Palm standard for text input. Graphiti is far from braindead simple. Who thinks to make a lower case alpha to form a 'K'. I know I don't. But, if one spends a bit of time learning the system, it becomes second nature. Linux based PDAs may not seem brain dead simple at first, but I'm sure they'll seem that way to you after a while.
I've bought a Zaurus C860 in Japan and it rulez. It is really a small laptop, awesome screen/image quality and you can easily type on its keyboard. More than enoung RAM, simultaneous SD card and WiFi support and easy USB network connectivity with Linux. Screw those proprietary Palm and Symbian crap.
Well the available models are way to expensive for me. If there was something more entry level like a Palm m505. I suppose Linux is not exactly good for cheap devices since it needs some more powerful processors? What about a cheap PDA with ecos or equivalent on it.
I can't remember the last time some of my Windoze software broke because I installed something else or 'upgraded' or 'patched.'
It used to happen all the time with Microsoft Windows systems. But Linux came along and challanged Microsoft in terms of reliability. Microsoft scrambled and came up with Windows 2000 as their response. It's far, far, more stable than older MS offerings.
Problem is, many of the most frentic Open Source advocates haven't used a Microsoft OS since before W2K so their experience of 'buggy easily-broken' Microsoft OSes is dated and no longer the case.
---
Not ironic at all. When designing for a system with constraints (limited MIPs and RAM for early mainframes and PC's, mAH of battery and viewable kilopixels in handhelds, etc.), a developer who is capable of hand crafting an application to fit in that environment will be able to produce something far more usable than a trivial port of some bloatware meant for a system many times larger.
Technology advances will help out some types of bloatware (e.g. Mr. Gates depends on Intel keeping up with Moore's law). But advances in battery energy density are very slow; so, in some ways, the constraints for optimal applications for handhelds will always be different than for PCs.
One of the main failings of PocketPC handhelds is that a large portion of the applications for it are ports of applications meant for hardware with bigger displays, larger caches, and unlimited power (AC wall plug plus noisy fans).
You're the same guy as tirel, you're just trying to save face by pointing out your own post so you can get karma and not get your IP banned
Ok, reasons for using open source are well known, and I use Linux as a desktop both at work and at home, but when I bought a PDA if I wanted a Zaurus I had to expend a lot more money than for my Tungsten T2, but a PalmOS as operating sistem doesn't means I must use propietary software for everything else, it's like using OOo in a Windows, ok, it's not "pure", but it's free software with all it's advantages, open standards and compatibility.
DON'T PANIC
Palm's file formats are far from protected and closed. The basic PDB and PRC formats are well-documented, and there's lots of open-source software to create both executable programs and PDB's.
Now on the other hand, individual application file formats may be hidden by the vendors. Don't like it? Write your own PIM software, text-editor, etc. etc.
To me, open source is less critical than open-exchangability. Palm's conduits are a little obtuse to create and set up. I'd like to see the PIM data (contacts, e-mail and calendar) have higher-level API's to insert new conduits to work other apps.
Design for Use, not Construction!
Your anti-slash.org shenannigans have been exposed.
By posting the link as AC, you can avoid getting the 72 hour IP ban, and it gives you armor against future modding downs from causing you to get banned as well.
You may even find some more arguments (not only from the end-users point of view) in my presentation slides about Linux on PDAs. For example a very important argument for manufacturers to use Open Source software on PDAs and mobile (cell) phones are the costs of operating system licenses.
he's trying to gain karma by pointing out his own post as a plagarized post. by getting karma on an AC post, he can pretend not to be a karma whore, but it prevents his IP from getting banned as fast when he trolls
Of course, some of us actually have used Windows post-2000 and still think it's a buggy pile of trash....
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
A substantial proportion of these "apps" are shopping-list makers and such..
Maybe that's because normal people have recognized that something with a 3" diagonal screen and handwriting input isn't a personal computer.
I have no doubt that dipshits will continue to port Linux to handhelds. Then they will want more RAM to support it. Then they will want a faster CPU so that it's almost as responsive as a 1997 Palm. Then they will want to add more flash to it to store bloated Linux X-Windows apps. They they will bitch about the battery life not being long enough. Then manufacturers will add internal Lithium-Ion rechargeable batteries to provide the power. Then the Linux-on-handhelds dipshits will whine on Slashdot about the batteries being non-standard and not user-replaceable. And normal users will reject the Linux handhelds as being too expensive, too large, too heavy, and not user-friendly.
Not every solution requires a nail -- even if you really like using hammers.
I have an IPAQ (by Compaq) and the best dirsto I found is familiar.
When I first installed Linux I posted some screen shots, running the web server from the IPAQ directly connected to the Internet and firewalled with iptables. I have a dual PCMCIA sleeve, and with 2 nics it can be used as a router/firewall with NAT. The foldable keyboard works great and is very sleek. I have a 5G PCMCIA hard drive so I can watch movies on the bus. You can also use Sprint as a wireless ISP as there's now a Linux driver for the Sprint wireless modem.
There are camera and phone attachments but I don't know how they work with Linux.
This "familiar" distro has a good mailing list, moderated and mailed daily.
The software for handhelds and all new electronic devices should be open sourced because, although competition is good (Windows vs Palm, etc.), there are too many diverging standards at the moment. Open sourcing will force development around practical functionality rather than marketing strategies.
I've already solved this problem with SuperWaba. It runs on PalmOS, WinCE, PocketPC, Win32 and Java with more to come. Open Source, supports native libraries, fast VM. Works a treat.
:v)
If someone designed a nice launcher for it you could have a consistent user interface across PDAs, even when you upgrade.
Vik
I already have a Tunsten T, running PalmOS 5. Is there any way to migrate away from PalmOS and over to an OSS solution?
I counted three "bahs" in your one post. Are you posting on Slashdot or practicing sheep pick-up lines?
I realize we have to pull out all the possible benefits and drawbacks, but, please, the "your software will break with an OS upgrade" is such a shallow argument.
Of COURSE your software will break if there's a major OS upgrade. Why wouldn't it whether the OS is open or closed. It's a fallacy to think that since PalmOS is closed source this automatically means your software will break and wouldn't if the source was open. C'mon, now.
We've been through many, many major revisions of PalmOS and PPCOS to see that most software developers -- those than plan to make money anyway -- update their software right away or BEFORE the OS update is released.
Sure, there are some software packages that haven't been updated since PalmOS 3, but is this Palm's fault?
m
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
I sold my Z after having previously owned a ipaq- there is no compairason. MS reader kicks ass on PDF or text on a PDA. Plain out none of these OS's are near perfect but for certien things the MS pda is the way to go. I like the clear type text and the feel of everything and dont want to get a command line. But I have to say wireless is easy with OpenZ
I have a Palm Pilot - specifically, a Tungsten E, their newest low end model, which I got for $170.
So far, I've gotten movies to play in divx format with mmplayer (which means they're about 1/10 the size they were with the included app); 15 books to be stored in 3MB with plucker; a better light dimming system (you could hardly affect the light before) with dimmer, a NES emulator from nesem, and a remote control system (using your palm as a remote) through Omniremote.
It also comes with Documents-to-Go, which can read and write word, excel and powerpoint documents (the same kind you find on the PC, not an import).
What exactly am I missing in freedom of choice? All the stuff I chose didn't come with my Palm device, with the exception of Documents-to-Go, and one app is even GPL (plucker).
I think I'm limited only by the speed of the processor, and for wireless stuff. I could have gotten the faster ones, or wireless, but I'd have paid more for those. I got a lot of bang for my buck, without paying the extra $130 that you did.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I guess this story is true. It explains why the Palm and the Pocket PC have had no luck with sales, and the Zaurus has done so well. /sarcasm
People want something that is easy to use, has lots of add of parts (camera, CF readers, network cards), and runs the software they want.
I don't see any reason anyone should buy an OSS handheld, unless they hate MS and Palm that much, or are going to port some of their apps to the device.
Open source has nothing to do with what people can do with their data. If someone's application breaks, they aren't going to be rewriting any code to get it to work again. Come on. Get Real.
I fully agree that a properly designed UI makes or breaks a PDA, and that Sharp/Trolltech have been producing 3 years of brokenness.
But it's the fact the linux hackers lack the horse sense to do stuff like minimize the number of taps it takes to somthing, not make widgets have borders that consume massive amounts of screen real-estate, and to not try to make the PDA act like a small desktop. Understanding these important issues does not require money and it certainly has nothing to do with openness of code.
Don't blame Open Source for linux PDA's sucking. Blame the unix hacker culture that dominates Open Source for linux PDA's sucking. It's this culture that is unwilling to understand essential mobile design principles that are so necessary to make a great PDA.
Yet one more argument for why we need to divorce the concept of Open Source from the culture of Unix.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
I thought about a getting Palm and the Tungsten E specifically but what drove me away is that they still have the hardware graphiti area. Sony has it as a software pop-up so it seems stupid to keep throwing using the unhideable hardware format and denying customers the screen room.
my 2 cents
No sig for you!!
Linux can't get a unified GUI and set of GUI widgets after all these years in an industry decades old. The PDA has only become popular in the past 5yrs or so. What chance do OSS have in making a competitive, easy to use product with a version deserving of a 1.0 or more?
Sure, choice is great, freedom is great, blah blah blah. Meanwhile I'm writing Japanese on my PDA and waiting for 4yr old bugs in Mozilla to be fixed.
Better to have something now that will be broken later, than to have something broken now and forevermore.
Treo 600 just works great. I mean who cares about DRM when you can Divx on Palm OS5 already? Also ebooks? You can just download books, put them in .doc format, and read it with Docs to Go.
The applications on the Palm OS just work great - Docs to go to read/write Office docs, Verichat for instant messaging, SnapperMail for email.
Why bother with the customization and the quirky linux interface, when you want a smartphone that just works fast and well with great software.
Best Community for Gaming and Gadgets!
I look at what this article and the resulting discussion are talking about, and I can't help but think that I must be crazy. Everyone else seems to want a completely different device than I do.
Playing movies on a PDA? Browsing the Web from it? MP3s? Who cares!? I don't even want to read stuff on a PDA. If I want a book, I'll buy a book. If I want to do just about anything else computer-related, I'll use my computer.
What I want a PDA to do is to remember my contacts, appointments, and lists of stuff (movies I want to see, etc.). THAT IS ALL. I don't want color, sound, video, Bluetooth, or anything like that, and I probably don't even want a keyboard. I just want something with its own rechargable battery that lasts a good long while between charges and syncs to Linux reasonably well.
From what I've seen, I'm going to need to buy an old refurbished Visor Edge, because absolutely no one makes a PDA like this anymore.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
So, basically, as I insinuated in my post: It is a more likely problem in OSS than on Win CE (which I also have to develop for.) It is, imho, the last great hurdle for *nix systems to all powerful technical world dominance (still need games to kill Windows.)
;) Even for relatively experienced puke head geeks like myself. I find myself occasionally saying "Crap, I can run this app or that one, but not both..."
Desktop? Linux has them, excellent ones, in spades... Stability? LOL, no problem. File System performance? Ditto. Hardware support? No longer much of a problem, and if a problem, solved quickly.
Getting an app to run/build that you get off SF? PROBLEMS...
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I (as a Palm Software Developer - OSS, BTW ;) must state that the PalmOS documentation is very open even with internal standards. You can easily see most of the system struct's in the documentation, most are noted to "may change uncommented in the future" - but they have always been there, and it seems to me that they ever will be.
:)
Of course, open source systems are always the "better" choice, but I'm pretty happy with PalmOS on my devices...
This is a great idea!
An eye for an eye... leaves the whole world blind.
Trying to be funny, are you? You're just an ignorant assclown who needs to quit posting. Please fuck off.
I love open source, but I run windows. Practically every useful linux open source project has a windows port. Windows has more intuitive system management, and games.
Similarly, Palm has a great light weight API suitable for PDAs. Just because the underlying system isn't open, doesn't mean its not useful, or that you can't use open software with it.
Proprietary E-book formats are indeed unattractive lock-in, and its a fair point that older OS versions and models will be abandoned, and unupgradeeable, yet using open formats and open tools side by side with a useful system provides the best environment. You know going in whether your data will be locked in, and can act accordingly.
Is a great palm database but is stalled since four months ago.
It has better features than any under $40 commercial db.
NEOCA - Custom LED Flashlights
The other post was funny. Yours sucks. Who pissed in your cornflakes? Are you still mad because your daddy made you take it up the ass and then suck the shit and cum off his dick?
It's simple: Anyone whose primary interest is in selling hardware will benefit from open-source software.
That's particularly true for lower-price hardware, where proprietary software can be a significant percentage of the price. Replacing it with open-source software can make the price much more competitive.
Why do you think Sun sells Linux, even though it competes against Solaris? Because the hardware divisions of Sun primarily want to sell hardware -- and Linux (or BSD) gives cost-conscious customers the best value.
Honestly, I think the *real* question is more about the quality of the "user experience" with a given PDA. On a device that's under $500 or so, and used as a glorified calendar/contact list/address book + way to play with assorted games, calculators, and misc. applets - I'm looking for ease of use, above all else.
If it's open source and has a great user interface, then that's awesome! If it's some commercial, closed-source OS, but still offers the easy to use and friendly UI, plus all the little apps and applets I want, then that's awesome too!
Right now, I find the Windows CE based handhelds to be less desirable than the PalmOS counterparts, but that's really because I've grown so familiar with the PalmOS interface. It does what I want, keeps getting refreshed with new versions, but doesn't make me relearn everything to use the updated devices. If all I owned was WinCE stuff, I'd probably be just as biased towards it.
I'm not opposed to alternatives - but on a PDA, I'm not switching products simply because it offers more "potential" by being "open source". I have to see concrete improvements that are immediately there for me.
(Note: during this post I'm going to refer to Zarus several times, by zarus I mean ANY handheld device that has the capacity to run a 'real' unix) A lot of people in the 'open source' catagory are responding with things like 'But using open source lets you do things you woulden't be able to do normally' but don't list any examples.
A lot of those who feel that the proprietary (or at least 'designed speicifically with handheld in mind') solutions are better cite 'give us an example'
Well for an example that is probabally impossible on anything short of a full blown windows on palmtop proprietary solution (but easily done in a linux on palmtop using a few shell scripts); Lets say I own the game Crono Trigger, for the super nintendo, and I have a long trip ahead of me; I wan to play this game during the trip, because it's a great game, but I don't want to carry tonnes of crap with me. I can get a port of SNES9X for linux, and play my game on my palmtop (handeling the 'select game, select speed and other insanity' that would require a lot of clicking and scrolling around with a shell script).
Now this is a rather off example since it's strictly for gaming- BUT, a new sharp zarus could probabally play gameboy advanced games emulated as well- So the Zarus, because it is Linux, and because it's built powerfully enough to run linux, could be both your organiser, and your GBA in one package (for the sake of legalities, we'll assume that you also pay to get a cartidge copier and purchase all your games)- It was more expensive then both devices combined; but if you can find two more useful uses for it; then it might be a more cost effective package (and definatly smaller then carring both a Palm, and a GBA).
Another good example of something that I personally want from any 'really damned expensive device that I have purchased' is that it signal me in certain situations (like when it's battery is runnign low- Now, the palm and Zarus may come with a beep when battery power gets low- But later on (maby even years later) I may find a card that can do both GPS and cellular internet on the cheap, so I can throw that in my zarus, and then change it's low battery warning to be 'send me an e-mail with your current GPS co-ordinates', and then I can add 'also do that if anyone ever fails to enter the user password correctly' as an anti-theft measure!
But we can't ignore the fact that the palm-type device is just plain cheaper! Like tonnes cheaper! So while the above scenarios would be kinda cool- you could probabally affoard to buy a palm, then 'upgrade'(buy a new one) to a palm that also plays GBA games (assuming one is created), then 'upgrade' to a palm that plays GBA games, and has an integrated cell modem and GPS; Possibly upgrading twice will still cost less then buying one new Zarus and the devices/peripials to make it do all those things.
-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
Like MacOS X, you can have the best of both worlds on a PDA:
- Take PalmOS for good PIMs, price, battery autonomy, speed,
- And grab lots of OSS ported to PalmOS at www.palmopensource.com
(And in a few months, Palms will have a real OS, derived from BeOS: PalmOS 6)
In theory I could install Linux on my Dell Axim X5.
But would I still be able to use the Compact Flash
network card?
Would I still be able to use the Compact Flash VGA
adapter to do PowerPoint type presentations (with
reasonable response times).
Can I sync to a desktop or server.
If I can do all that (plus the usual -
browse the web, read email, listen to mp3s, listen
to BBC Radio 4 on the internet) then take me
to a Linux distribution!
However, my biggest complaint about the PocketPC, is that 90% of the people who can program for it, are always out for a buck or two. The Palm had a fantasic selection of free and Free applications and tools.
Want something useful? Cough up $10 for it. Need a subtle enhancement? Another $10-$15. Now I don't mind paying for things if they're good - but sometimes the amount the author wants for his little application is stupid.
For example: The Microsoft Theme Switcher is very buggy (it tends to lock up frequently). Want an alternative? All the replacements cost if you want the full functionality.
I want to develop a Free (GPL) product that will allow Visual Basic programmers to create Today plugins. It needs some eVB work (which I can do) and some eVC work (which i can't). I've been advertising for help. Out of the limited responses I've got - people are only interested if there is money to be made.
Anyone got any hints on finding a Today screen programmer willing to work on a GPL project?
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
All I know is the Zire 71 has a beautiful screen. Get one off Ebay for ~$150 and use it as a flashlight. It's brighter than my NX70 screen, which is also beautious and perfect for movies/South Park.
Someday soon the cheapy cameras on these devices will be real cameras (The NZ90 doesn't count because it's a brick) and you'll be able to record 640x480 30fps MPEG4 video onto an SD. Sony is dreading it... The Zire 71 is tiny, long battery life, and color. The screen is gorgeous. I just wish Palm had better games. The games suck...
... is what makes sense on handhelds. Or it would do if the company that made it weren't stupid.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The average consumer behaves similarly with respect to her/his PDA. They don't dig around under the hood installing new stuff. They certainly don't design and implement new parts (software) of their own and then install them.
This is why Palm/WinCE will continue to survive. They mostly work out of the box. Users don't get as much customizability as they may desire (certainly I don't). But it basically works.
As a coder, my next PDA is definitely going to run Linux. I'm the mechanic in this case, and can change the system as I see fit. This is not, however, a sustainable business model for most PDA companies.
And there are plenty of open source programs for Palm OS. Look into PocketC, for example. While the compiler code isn't OSS, the vast majority of stuff written for the compiler is open source, as are the native libraries & code libraries.
There are plenty of other examples...
But I have to figure that the average PDA user isn't into compiling their own applications. The average user wants to cut the danged thing on & keep their calendar, contacts & to do list.
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
The Newton faithful http://www.newtontalk.net are still using their "obsolete" machines. I'm not switching until I can get HWR that's just as good [and it's damn good].
"You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister