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Intel Devises Chip Speed Breakthrough

Chad Wood writes "According to the New York Times (free reg. req.), Intel has demonstrated a research breakthrough, making silicon chips that can switch light like electricity. The article explains:''This opens up whole new areas for Intel,' said Mario Paniccia, a an Intel physicist, who started the previously secret Intel research program to explore the possibility of using standard semiconductor parts to build optical networks. 'We're trying to siliconize photonics.' The invention demonstrates for the first time, Intel researchers said, that ultrahigh-speed fiberoptic equipment can be produced at personal computer industry prices. As the costs of communicating between computers and chips falls, the barrier to building fundamentally new kinds of computers not limited by physical distance should become a reality, experts say.'"

126 of 465 comments (clear)

  1. Google link (KW) by jaxdahl · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:Google link (KW) by spacecowboy420 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Have you ever noticed [especially the french] how much vacation these guys have? I work in the US with a UK, French, and German team. These fucking guys are always on vacation. They're fucking genuises, but don't get to work often enough to get shit done....

      --
      ymmv
    2. Re:Google link (KW) by afidel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because 51% of R&D dollars are spent in the U.S. Just like we were the center of industrial capacity in the early 20th century so are we the leaders in the idea capacity in the early part of the 21st. Near universal post-secondary eduction along with programs that encourage the brightest from around the world to flock here are what is keeping America afloat in the world economy. That's why Republican's desire to defund education is so scary, if we lose this edge we will fall as the worlds leading power.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:Google link (KW) by Bull999999 · · Score: 3, Informative

      What educational edge? U.S. students has some of the worst scores in math and science among the first world countries.

      I've had some experience with Asian school system and the reason why maybe Asian students out score U.S. students with less money spent on the education is that;

      1. They allocate more resources toward math and science than other subjects. I'd say their math level is closer to two years ahead of U.S. students.

      2. Teachers can administer corporal punishments. Students respect (or fear) teachers more in general, which means less disruptive students ruining the learning experience for the rest of the class.

      3. They eat their lunches in their classroom and clean after themselves, including the hallways and restrooms. Less money spent on staff.

      4. Asian students study for longer on the average than the U.S. students.

      As the "defunding" goes, education is not the only program that is getting reduced funding, and the cuts in education has been targeted towards subjects like arts and music while perserving math and science related subjects.

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
    4. Re:Google link (KW) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I work in the US with a UK, French, and German team. These fucking guys are always on vacation. They're fucking genuises, but don't get to work often enough to get shit done....

      ...and the American residents I've worked with have seemed pretty smart, but so tired that they kept making silly mistakes. ;-P

      I guess there's a happy medium somewhere in-between, eh?

    5. Re:Google link (KW) by afidel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      blah, blah, blah, blah.

      The U.S. post-secondary system is the best in the world without question. Not only by quality (9/10 of the worlds best institutions in any subject area will be in the U.S.) but by quantity. In the state I live in no student is more than 20 miles from a college, university, or branch location. This makes it easy for anyone who wants to get an eduction to get one. As a good example of how the worlds best come here one of our state schools that I wouldn't have even considered as a backup school has students from 157 nations!!!! Our secondary eduction may be lacking in some regards but we make up for it. Besides most comparisons are not on level grounds, a large percentage of the nations we are compared against do not have universally guarenteed secondary eduction. For instance both Japan and Germany have a system where only the top percentage of students will enter the college track eduction, these are the students that take the standardized tests, not the entirity of the population where in the U.S. every student who has not dropped out takes them.

      Finally I would point out that the U.S. has largest percentage of the population in postsecondary education:
      Per 100K population:
      Korea 4,955
      Japan 3,139
      U.S. 5,398
      U.K 3,126
      France 3,617
      Source
      In fact the U.S. has nearly as many students in postsecondary education as the rest of the first world combined at over 15 million!

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    6. Re:Google link (KW) by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IMHO, funding isn't the problem with education(before college). Discipline is the problem. Teachers are tied up the whole day dealing with kids who should be kicked out of class but aren't because it would hurt their feelings. Smart kids aren't allowed to go to more advanced classes because then the less advanced kids feel left out.

      Add to the fact that parents are on the kids side and not the teachers side. When a child fails a subject the parents first blame the teacher instead of themselves or the child. I have a few family memebers who are teachers and they work entirely too much trying to help every student learn, but if the parents are not involved it becomes nearly impossible.

      No, the problem today is not lack of funding, but that America as a whole doesn't care about education anymore. Sure people pay a lot of lip service to helping the children and fixing the education system, but then no one wants to do anything about it. In order to fix the system the two main things that need to happen are 1)discipline needs to be restored and 2) parents need to become part of the solution.

    7. Re:Google link (KW) by afidel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess I see things a little differently since my mother and two of my aunts are teachers. My aunts both work in poorer school districts (despite living in very nice neighborhoods) and things are so bad that they are buying basic supplies out of their measly salery and trying to beg places to donate things like multiple copies of books so they can use them in study groups. Not to mention things like the gym roof that collapsed at one of their schools a couple years back. Disciplinary problems CAN eat a lot of a teachers time frivilously and you are right that lack of parental involvement is probably the biggest problem but lack of funds definitly makes it much more difficult then it needs to be.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    8. Re:Google link (KW) by Bull999999 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It all depends. I managed to snag 12 college credits hours and many of my friends also received credits for college and AP classes in high school. There are intelligent kids who are open minded and when they feel that the regular classes are cake, they find ways challenge themselves further. Most colleges around this area allow concurrent admissions to high school students. One of my classmates took advantage of that to finish Calculus 3 (also counts as a math credit for high school as well) during his first half of his senior year. Sliding by is just pure laziness.

      --
      1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
    9. Re:Google link (KW) by Lobsang · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While 30 day paid vacations seem commonplace in a number of countries, I'd say 2 to 3 weeks is the rule of thumb in the US. There's also the dreaded "sick days" that force people to make lame excuses to use, or else they'll lose them.

      They made you think they work too little, but in fact it is you (and I) that work too much.

  2. Intel's secret breakthrough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "We've taken two AMD chips and put them both dual configuration with a giant 'Intel' sticker on top. Then, we sell it for twice what we paid, and get the lusers... err, I mean... users to buy it because it says 'Intel Inside.'"

    1. Re:Intel's secret breakthrough by Bobulusman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Reliability?

      I've had three AMD chips. The 500 mhz K6-2 is still running strong several years later, now in a younger sister's hand-me-down PC. My first 2000+ withstood the power supply exploding and lasted another 6 months before finally giving out. I'm currently using a new 2000+ with no problems. On both 2000+ chips, I have yet to even a STOP error that I can't attribute to something else.

      How much more reliable do you want?

      --
      Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
    2. Re:Intel's secret breakthrough by macshit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually Intel's behavior in this regard is far worse than AMD's.

      With AMD, the bullshit is just a thin (and obvious) marketing layer, which is easy enough to ignore. Intel, on the other hand, release slow chips with high clock speeds because they know the vast majority of morons out there will only pay attention to the MHz rating.

      As a case in point, the infamous P4 Celeron. High-ish clock speed, crap performance, completely destroyed by similarly priced AMD processors.

      I think AMD's naming makes a lot of clueful people a bit uncomfortable, but seems justifiable in a market dominated by a world-class bullshit artist like Intel.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    3. Re:Intel's secret breakthrough by Slack3r78 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I should know better, but I just have to comment on the fact that you're one hell of a troll. If you supposedly own an A64 and were going to bitch about the true clock speed, I'd expect you to know that the 3000+ clocks at an even 2GHz, the same as the 3200+, only difference between the two being cache.

      The last line of that post was pure brilliance/troll as well. Show me ANY benchmark were a P4 2.2GHz outperforms an A64 3000+ and you might be onto something. Until then, please stop speaking out of your ass.

    4. Re:Intel's secret breakthrough by adrianbaugh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've never had a reliability issue with AMD, either on my laptop (Athlon XP 1600+ with barely-adequate cooling) or on my desktop (Athlon XP 2400+ where the heatsink has been changed twice, surely physically stressing the chip quite a bit). Having said that, I never had an issue with the dual P2 I had beforehand. Maybe I'm just lucky - or maybe I don't think it's some kind of god-given right to overclock my chips. Run them within spec and they'll be fine. Overclock them and, well, don't be surprised if they let you down.

      --
      "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
      - JRR Tolkien.
    5. Re:Intel's secret breakthrough by Lord+Lazarus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So stupid to argue over this.. guess what. I have both AMD and Intel chips on various systems. None of them have broken down or burned out. Why? Because I assembled the heatsink and fan properly. They serve their purpose and theres nothing much else to complain about. But here's a question.. why did this stray so far off topic.

    6. Re:Intel's secret breakthrough by Mr+Guy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ah hah, you've cleverly chosen secret option D) I don't understand my own hardware.

      AMD FX 64
      Mobile AMD Athlon 64

      You aren't talking about the same chips at all.

  3. mmmm by josh3736 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So when do I get my new high-speed fiber line? :D

  4. We all know, of course. . . by jafac · · Score: 4, Funny

    that it will have to be x86 compatible, or it will never fly.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  5. EMP by potpie · · Score: 5, Funny

    This kind of technology seems like a very healthy step toward making computers resistant to electromagnetic waves and/or pulses (aided also by the rise of optical storage devices), which is great for us humans now. But now what are we going to use against the "squiddies" when they come for our hovercrafts?

    --
    Esoteric reference.
    1. Re:EMP by ibullard · · Score: 2, Funny

      We follow Monty Python's advice and fill them with eels.

    2. Re:EMP by jsse · · Score: 5, Funny

      This kind of technology seems like a very healthy step toward making computers resistant to electromagnetic waves

      Your joke reminded me of an instance when I saw a co-worker sitting on a P-IV box while working on it. I took the chance to play some prank on him.

      "It could fire your 'eggs'"
      "What?!"
      "You know what clock speed this thingy is running?"
      "2.4GHz, why?"
      "What's the wave frequency of a microwave oven?"
      (jumping up)"....OH SHIT"

      (It's just a joke. I don't think the CPU has enough strength to fry your 'eggs'. Even so, the wave can't penatrate the metallic case) :)

  6. Still binary.. by dustinbarbour · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When we get off of binary, then we'll be making progress, in my humble opinion. I mean, we've been using binary for-ever! Imagine the size and speed gains we would get if we could now have three or four states per bit.

    1. Re:Still binary.. by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 2, Informative

      why do you think there will be size and speed gains?

      the complexity of most logical and arithmetic operations that have to be performed on a bit increase exponentially with the number of possible states in the bit.

    2. Re:Still binary.. by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 4, Funny

      01111001 01100001 00101100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110100 01101111 01110100 01100001 01101100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01100001 01100111 01110010 01100101 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01101111 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 00101101 00100000 01101000 01101111 01110000 01100101 01100110 01110101 01101100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100000 01110111 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110000 01110000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110011 01101111 01101111 01101110 00101110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01100001 01101101 00100000 01110111 01100101 01100001 01110010 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110011 01100101 00100000 01110100 01110111 01101111 00100000 01101011 01100101 01111001 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110

      Know what I mean?

    3. Re:Still binary.. by condition-label-red · · Score: 4, Funny

      Doesn't the "bi" in "bit" mean two? So we would have to call three states a "trit"; and four states a "quit" to keep them straight.

      --
      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit.
    4. Re:Still binary.. by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Funny

      but would 12 states be a twit? ;)

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    5. Re:Still binary.. by irokitt · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know, maybe you are right. And I think we should also stop counting in base-10. I mean, we've been doing that for, like, forever. And it would be so cool to count in base-13. And maybe we should live in tepees. Because they're cool.

      --
      If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
    6. Re:Still binary.. by HeX314 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The difficulty with mastering tri-state and quad-state computers (as opposed to bi-state or binary) comes with the gates used. How would one perform an inverse operation when there are two other choices from which to choose? Instead of AND, OR, and NOT (not to mention combinations such as XOR, NOR, NAND, etc.), you would have at least 8 gates (if I recall correctly; I worked on something similar to this during the summer) doing things such as shifting, reversing, "inverting," and such. The different permutations of these make it even more confusing.

      In addition to this, you would need to find a medium capable of carrying a tri-state signal (electrons are not best suited for this). In fact, due to the fact that we have a tough time determining on and off sometimes, I would personally suggest we leave it at binary for the time being.

      I know it's a long post, but most of it is necessary.

    7. Re:Still binary.. by nomadic · · Score: 2, Funny

      01110111 01100101 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101111 01110011 01100101 00100000 01100111 01101001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00101100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01110011 01110111 01101001 01110100 01100011 01101000 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01101011 01100101 01111001 01110000 01100001 01100100

    8. Re:Still binary.. by fredrikj · · Score: 4, Informative

      More info about base 3 computing here.

    9. Re:Still binary.. by Perl-Pusher · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Imagine the size and speed gains we would get if we could now have three or four states per bit.

      Three states have been around awhile it's called Tri-state Logic. Gordon Moore gave an interview in PC Magazine. He discussed multi-state logic, but said it was a non issue. He said that neural networks were much more important breakthrough.

    10. Re:Still binary.. by gilrain · · Score: 5, Funny

      So, you would have tits (Tertiary digITs).

    11. Re:Still binary.. by femto · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Imagine the size and speed gains we would get if we could have lots of states per bit. Ummm..., I've just reinvented the analog computer...

      I think you will find the whole point of binary is that the increased noise margins of having two states means the speed can generally be increased in a way that more than makes up for the reduced information capacity of two states, compared to multiple states. (Multi-level memory cells are actually low speed / duty cycle devices.)

      A 'bit' is a mathematical abstraction. In reality, a 'bit' is an analog pulse who's signal-to-noise ratio is just enough to discern two states (read up on eye diagrams).

    12. Re:Still binary.. by Trinition · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, while it would be tits, it would not be because of the word "tertiary". "Tertiary" is to 3 as "secondary" is to 2.

      The word you are looking for is either "trinary", or "ternary".

      Either way, if you look at how the word "bit" is formed, you can think of two ways:

      1. B-inary dig-IT
      2. BI-nary digi-T

      If it is the first case, then either "trinary" or "ternary" would still yield "tit":

      T-rinary dig-IT
      T-ernary dig-IT

      However, if it is the second case, we could have a problem:

      TR-inary digi-T = TRT
      TE-rnary digi-T = TET

      But, I agree with your original intent because neither of these are us fun as "TIT".

    13. Re:Still binary.. by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think they are normally called "trits".

      On the otherhand, Google only got 5090 hits for "trits" and 16,600,000 for "tits", so perhaps that is the more common term. I see, however, that the top hit for "tits" is about bird-watching, so this alternative meaning may have contaminated the results.

      --
      Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    14. Re:Still binary.. by el-spectre · · Score: 2, Funny

      Respectfully... I distrust the discussion of "third base" from a computer geek :)

      --
      "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
    15. Re:Still binary.. by cubic6 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If I remember correctly, the optimum base for data size is base e (approx 2.7). I guess that base 3 would be the best we could achieve. Can anybody who knows more about information theory back me up?

      --
      Karma: Contrapositive
    16. Re:Still binary.. by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm not upgrading before we have CLits (CL in Roman numerals should be something like 150). 150 states for each bit is what you need for serious realtime porn-rendering, man!

    17. Re:Still binary.. by pbox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK here is the formula:

      cost: number of digits * number of states for a digit

      base is b
      number is n
      cost is c

      c = (1+log_b(n))*b

      where log_b is logarithm base b

      If (d c) / (d b) = 0 and n approches infinity b approches Pi.

      In other terms: to store big numbers you better off using Pi based numeric system. 3 is the closest integer, hence the tertiary storage promises to be more effective.

      --
      Code poet, espresso fiend, starter upper.
    18. Re:Still binary.. by LittleBigLui · · Score: 2, Funny

      So instead of being "yes"/"no", bits should offer more possibilities, like "maybe", "can i call a friend?" and "CowboyNeal"?

      --
      Free as in mason.
    19. Re:Still binary.. by MechaStreisand · · Score: 3, Informative

      Minor nitpick: b doesn't approach Pi, it approaches e. Otherwise, that looks like the formula I've seen in an article on this subject.

      --
      Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.
    20. Re:Still binary.. by Genda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, This is Light!

      Photonics have tremendous advantages over electronics... starting with the possibility of insanely high clock rates (think of the difference between microwaves and UV light!!!) Photonic signal pathes can be multiplexed, that is light pulses of countless frequencies can run down the same channel. Photonics are not at all limited to binary, or any other arbitrary base. Pick one you like... like decimal, and have a party. Photonics can perform massively parallel calculation inside photonic arrays. Those calculations can be used to control logic flow, and data organization, allowing a new hierarchy of computing which doesn't even exist in current solid state devices (i.e. self modifying, self optimizing hardware tuned to recursive operational analysis.)

      As for the whole waste heat conversation... Remember, in a photonic, the light passing through the device doesn't necessarily produce significant heat. Photons passing through a transparent medium don't interact with matter the same way electrons do... resistance to currents of light aren't anything like electrons in their ability to produce heat, that is, as long as the light passing through an optical gate doesn't fluoresce (re-emit light) in the far infrared, there is no reason to expect that gate to get warm. The only true source of light on the chip will be the clock (not exactly true considering pumps, and amplifiers, but the concept is operationally correct), and that doesn't need to be a high wattage source (a 5mw tuneable laser should more than sufficient as a clock source.) Photonics run cool!

      Comparing photonics to electronics is missing the whole point of why we want to do photonics in the first place... photonics rock!

      Genda Bendte

      "And then he said let there be light! And it was good!"

    21. Re:Still binary.. by jrobertray · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perl golf time...

      perl -pe 's:(\d{8})\s*:chr oct"0b$1":ge'

      Feed it the string of binary on STDIN.

      Is there a shorter translator?

    22. Re:Still binary.. by ajr_trm · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It isn't shorter but I like it anyway:
      ( 4th) [binary]
      0 ( put data here)
      0 >r
      begin dup >r 0= until
      r>
      begin r> dup emit 0= until
      drop

  7. NYT not necessary by djupedal · · Score: 4, Informative

    SAN JOSE, California (AP) -- In an advance that could inexpensively speed up corporate data centers and eventually personal computers, researchers used everyday silicon to build a device that converts data into light beams.

    Light-based communications has until now largely been the realm of large telecom companies and long-haul fiber-optic networks because of the expense of the exotic materials required to harness photons, the basic building block of light.

    Now, researchers at Intel Corp. say their results with silicon promise to reduce the cost of photonics by introducing a well-known substance that's more readily available.

    In the study, published in Thursday's journal Nature, the Intel researchers reported encoding 1 billion bits of data per second, 50 times faster than previous silicon experiments. They said they could achieve rates of up to 10 billion bits per second within months.

    "This is a significant step toward building optical devices that move data around inside a computer at the speed of light," said Pat Gelsinger, Intel's chief technology officer.

    Intel believes the finding could have profound implications for the links between servers in corporate data centers. Eventually, the technology could find its way into personal computers and even consumer electronics.

    "It is the kind of breakthrough that ripples across an industry over time, enabling other new devices and applications," Gelsinger said. "It could help make the Internet run faster, build much faster high-performance computers and enable high bandwidth applications like ultra-high-definition displays or vision recognition systems."

    Unlike electrons that flow through copper connections common today, the photons in light are not susceptible to data-slowing interference and can travel farther.

    The Intel researchers built a device called a modulator, which switches light into patterns that translate into the ones and zeros of the digital world.

    A light beam was split into two as it passed through the silicon, which has tiny transistor-like devices that alter light. When the beams are recombined and exit the silicon, the light goes on and off at a frequency of 1 gigahertz, or a billion times a second.

    Infrared light is used because it can pass through silicon.

    "Just as Superman's X-ray vision allows him to see through walls, if you had infrared vision, you could see through silicon," said Mario Paniccia, a study author and director of Intel's silicon photonics research. "This makes it possible to route light in silicon, and it is the same wavelength typically used for optical communications."

    The researchers expect to be able to increase the frequency to 10 gigahertz, making the technology commercially viable, said Victor Krutul, senior manager of Intel's silicon photonics technology strategy.

    "This implies that the economies of scale that we have seen for the electronics industry could one day apply to the photonics industry," Graham T. Reed, a professor of optoelectronics at the University of Surrey's Advanced Technology Institute, said in a commentary that accompanied the research paper.

  8. damn universe.. by molo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the barrier to building fundamentally new kinds of computers not limited by physical distance should become a reality, experts say

    I think the universe might disagree. The speed of light is a limiting factor. The speed of electrons/transistor switching is what we're hitting now. (takes more than one clock cycle for a signal to propogate accross a chip) We will exchange that for a the light/photothingie switching speed that will be higher. This is not limitless.

    Also, not limited by physical distance? Are these guys on crack? My Quake game is limited by physical distance. It takes 100ms to go across the country and back. Latency is the killer here.

    -molo

    --
    Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
    1. Re:damn universe.. by nomadic · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think the universe might disagree.

      That universe, thinks he's so smart...

    2. Re:damn universe.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're sort of wrong on a couple of levels.

      The first level: The speed of light is slower in copper than air, and probably silicon. So, you get an immediate boost by changing mediums.

      Second level: Light can travel 30,000,000m or 300,000km in 100ms. This is about 18,600 miles in 100ms. That's pretty darn good. Good enough to bridge the whole globe with acceptable lag times.

      Third level: Right now, most of the lag in long distance communications is due to the speed at which your hardware processes the data. In fact, some benchmarks from my computer architecture class show that you can easily get 20% latency decreases by streamlining the hardware. This is just another way to do it.

      Fourth level: We really may not be limited by the speed of light. If we use quantum coupling (Einstein's "spooky action at a distance"), then we might be able to send information faster than the speed of light. There's some other theories out that there might also let this happen. In this case, the lag effectively becomes zero.

      Fifth level: Going optical reduces EMF and transmission lines within the chip. Stuff combatting transmission lines is getting pretty hefty -- going optical could significantly reduce the size of a chip by eliminating the pieces of the chip that counter-act transmission line related problems.

      Face it, this is a pretty damn cool new technology that will likely have some type of impact on the industry. Going optical affords huge advantages -- and the industry will eventually go there. There are immediate tangible benefits despite what you may think.

    3. Re:damn universe.. by Charvak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No you cant use quantum coupling. In quantum coupling the information transmission is strictly prohibited.

    4. Re:damn universe.. by lkeagle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sorry, accidentally posted anonymously the first time:

      The limitation on physical distance in an electrical medium is dictated by its impedance, which dissipates the electrical energy in the form of heat. This creates an enormous problem of power loss, which increases linearly with the distance of the transmission line.

      An optical waveguide, such as fiber or the silicon waveguides mentioned in the article, see no such losses due to electrical impedance.

      Theoretically, as long as the parameters are met for photonic propagation, light will stay in the waveguide indefinitely. However, there are still losses due to imperfections and impurities in the medium itself, caused by microscopic deformities, bubbles, splices in the fiber, etc. There are also some losses dues to quantum effects, which we see in the form of 'evanescent' waves that tunnel outside of the boundaries of the waveguide.

      What you really want to be asking is what is the transmissive and absorbtive properties for the silicon medium they use for the particular wavelength(s) of light that they are developing the technology with. If you know that, then combined with the effects above you can get a decent estimate of the power dissipation of the system for a given photon source.

      My feeling, without performing the calculations, is that you will be pleasantly surprised at how little energy will be dissipated in the form of heat.

      ~Loren

    5. Re:damn universe.. by xorbe · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ahh, but if we went through the Earth, max latency is ~85ms!

    6. Re:damn universe.. by volsung · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Yes. FTL communication of information would lead to violation of causality. You would be able to send messages back in time.

      Easiest way to see this is to imagine A and B have an instantaneous communication device. They synchronize their clocks and then separate at velocity v. Some time later (t1), A sends an instant message ("lol d00d") to B. Due to time dilation, A knows B will receive this message when his clock says t2, where t2 < t1. In B's frame, he receives this message when his clock says t2, and he instantly responds ("r0x0r!"). In B's frame, A is moving away at speed v, so the time that B knows is on A's clock when he receives his instant message is t3 < t2. But that means that A receives a response to his IM at t3 < t1, which is before he sent it!

      So that rules out instant communication. If you redo this argument mathematically, but allow the speed of the communication to be a parameter, you can find a constraint on the speed of information exchange to preserve causality. It's not immediately obvious to me that it will come out to be the speed of light, though. I suspect that it should, or I'v made an error in setting up this thought experiment.

    7. Re:damn universe.. by pz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed. Remember that electricity moves at the speed of light. (pause) Yes, the speed of light. (pause) Yes. Not the speed of light in a vacuum, the speed of light in the transmission medium in question. When this is wires on a PC board or traces on a chip, the capacitance and inductance of the wires -- which form the transmission medium -- slow down the photons which mediate the field propagation (at least that's one way of looking at it). For example, the speed of light in a coax cable is slower than the speed of light in a vacuum (although it's usually a fair fraction of it, typically well over 90%).

      That said, and understanding that signals on chips are already propagating at fractional-light speeds, you can tell that the original statement is bunk. Why? Because we're already at the physical limitations. It is already true that it takes an appreciable fraction of a clock cycle for signals to propagate from one side of a chip to another. Remember, light -- in vacuum -- travels about 11 inches per nanosecond. Slow that down to 0.3c and suddenly your 3 GHz processor clock means you can get about 1 cm between clock cycles, or, from one edge to another of the big, modern chips.

      So, the important question is: how fast do infrared photons travel in doped silicon? Anyone know?

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    8. Re:damn universe.. by Tailhook · · Score: 3, Informative

      My Quake game is limited by physical distance. It takes 100ms to go across the country and back. Latency is the killer here.

      Rough, napkin quality calculations here...

      m = miles to server = 2000 (round figure for "across the country")
      c = miles covered by light in 1 sec

      2m/c = 21ms round trip time

      100ms - 21ms = time lost to switching hardware, mostly, given that (in my experience) a simple ICMP ping will usually show very similar results, we probably can't attribute it to server processing time.

      So, as you can see, there is plenty of room for improvement. Faster/less switching between you and them means less latency. If you have 1/50 second latency, events are reported to you in the time it takes a good CRT to refresh twice.

      Light is fast.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  9. We're trying to siliconize photonics by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "We're trying to siliconize photonics"

    We're trying to morph bleeding-edge content
    We're trying to facilitate sticky experiences
    We're trying to productize user-centric convergence
    We're trying to empower extensible networks
    We're trying to synthesize revolutionary ROI
    We're trying to matrix e-business technologies
    We're trying to cultivate impactful relationships

    ....yada yada yada...

    ...Look, how fast will the thing go, and will I end up starting a fire in my PC from overheat?

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
    1. Re:We're trying to siliconize photonics by pla · · Score: 2, Informative

      and it seems you have that special sauce investors are looking for down perfectly.

      Pah... Save a few bucks and just use the Dilbert mission statement generator

      Customize the list of nouns, and you can even make it sound relevant to your own business.

      And, for reference, I did actually use that to come up with an "Objective" line for my SO's resume (though as a warning, she works in a field where the resume counted as a formality - she could have used "I want you to pay me to scratch my ass all day" as her objective, and still gotten the job).

  10. Modders: Each box with a laser toy inside!!! by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Funny

    Photonics == lasers
    So this technology should also revolutionize the mod scene and therefore dramatically effect Slashdot's front page.
    I wonder how many kids will accidentally burn their eyes out looking into the light?

  11. RTFA. This is a new method of data transfer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    ... not a chip you can 'overclock'. Basically, it is a way to send LOTS of data over a fiber line. They use an example of picking any seat in a stadium and having a dynamic TV show you that seat based on an angle you sit to the TV. So unless the data is pre-processed, this is NOT a new CPU.

    "The device Intel has built is the prototype of a high-speed silicon optical modulator that the company has now pushed above two billion bits per second at a lab near its headquarters in Santa Clara, Calif. The modulator makes it possible to switch off and on a tiny laser beam and direct it into an ultrathin glass fiber. Although the technical report in Nature focuses on the modulator, which is only one component of a networking system, Intel plans on demonstrating a working system transmitting a movie in high-definition television over a five-mile coil of fiberoptic cable next week at its annual Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco."

  12. Moore's Law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...or is this (Moore's Law)^2 ?

    Better yet...will this be meazured in LHz (Ludicrous-hertz)?

  13. As a duck by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

    I am far more interested in overquacking then I am in overclacking.
    overclocking is right out. ;)

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  14. Faster-than-light computers? by Carnildo · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...building fundamentally new kinds of computers not limited by physical distance should become a reality...

    So they've broken the lightspeed barrier? Amazing!

    --
    "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  15. Photonics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... is the coolest technology you've never heard of.

    For some reason, buried among a zillion dog-eared back issues of "People" and "Sports Illustrated" at the Seattle's Best Coffee shop at the corner of Central and Kirkland Way in Kirkland, Washington, somebody left a copy of Photonics Spectra in the magazine rack. I'm an electronics geek who had never heard of the field, and I probably spent three hours and two quad-damage lattes poring over that magazine. Fucking amazing stuff. Spend some time at the photonics.com website if you don't believe me.

    Seriously, photonics looks like it might be the Next Big Thing.

    1. Re:Photonics by lkeagle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Photonics has been the 'next big thing' for quite a while now. I even decided to get a degree in photonic engineering. What do I do now? I teach music and run sound at rock concerts...

      Photonic engineering (or electro-optics, as us physicists like to call the research side of it), is plagued by the same problems as the rest of the tech industry. Few companies are willing to fund the research in developing manufacturing techniques, therefore the incredible research that has been done in the field will sit in the journals getting dusty (as it has been for the past 10 years).

      I will say that this is a big step for the industry though. Not because of Intel's 'breakthrough discovery', but simply because with a big name company making a press release about new photonic computing technology, many other companies will be tempted to scramble into that field as well. Someday down the line, I may actually be able to work in this field simply because of this press release...

      *toast* Here's to hoping, right!

      ~Loren

    2. Re:Photonics by Snoopy77 · · Score: 4, Funny

      You know you're a slashdotter when:

      You search through issues of Peoeple and Sports Illustrated to find a copy of Photonics Spectra.

      --
      "She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
    3. Re:Photonics by natrius · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know you're a slashdotter when you can't spell "people".

      </cheap shot>

  16. monopolizing by segment · · Score: 3, Interesting
    With this breakthrough, Intel researchers said, they have shown that it should be possible to build optical fiber communications systems using Intel's conventional chipmaking process

    Great now we'll only have to buy from two companies in the future Intel and Microsoft.

    Seriously though, when I hear some chip news, and how it's the 'next best thing' I kind of wonder how much is just marketing hype. So far I heard of terabyte chips... Coming Soon!!!... Faster chipset will do... and so on. Yet on the market you see none. According to most companies capabilities (providing it's not just hype), from what I gather, they have a chipset in the works that can fly you to the moon, wash your car, bone your partner, and have you back in time for work the next morning. However, these companies have to make as much money as they possibly can selling you their fourth, third, and second generation chips for the next few years.

  17. But can we TRUST this intel? by Sebastopol · · Score: 4, Funny

    Given the current press reports from the White House and David Kay, how do we know we can trust this intel?

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  18. It's just a damn modulator by Orthogonal+Jones · · Score: 5, Informative


    Disclaimer: I am a Ph.D. in fiber optic physics

    This is a 2 Gb/s modulator, whereas III-V semiconductor modulators above 40 Gb/s are commericially available.

    A modulator by itself is nothing new, and not the whole story. You need optical waveguides with bending radii much smaller than currently available for routing, and optical logic gates which are an even worse problem.

    The article doesn't describe the technology -- is it electroabsorption? Mach-Zehnder?

    Nevertheless, a small and fast silicon modulator has obvious commercial value, even if it isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    1. Re:It's just a damn modulator by mamba-mamba · · Score: 5, Informative

      Right. The article implies that they found a way to make modulators that doesn't involve any fancy process steps or exotic substrates. This could open the door to modulators built-in to processors or chipsets, instead of relying on expensive, power-hungry external modulators.

      It's a bit like when they figured out how to build serializers in CMOS. Suddenly there are serializers everywhere that don't need a separate physical layer device. This is almost like the next step.

      Also, this could mean that things like optical fibre-channel and possibly 10 gigabit ethernet will be cheaper. Who knows.

      Interesting!

      MM
      --

      --
      By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
    2. Re:It's just a damn modulator by DeeKayWon · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is not really a reply to the parent. This is meant to help explain why silicon is so tough to make optoelectronics with.

      The electrons in materials have many different energies - in metals, the possible energies are so tightly spaced that you have what looks like a single continuous band of energy levels. With semiconductors, you have two effectively continuous bands with an energy gap between them. For silicon, for example, the gap is 1.1eV. The higher energy band is called the conduction band (CB) while the lower is called the valence band (VB).

      When an electron in the CB falls into the VB (direct recombination), it loses energy which is emitted in the form of heat (phonons, aka lattice vibrations) or light (a photon). Electrons in the CB prefer to hang around in the lowest energy states of the CB, so that's where they usually fall from. The unoccupied states of the VB tend to be the highest energy states in that band, so that's where electrons fall to.

      Now, the problem: momentum conservation. An electron can only directly fall from the CB to the VB and emit a photon if momentum is conserved, and photon momentum is negligible compared to that of the electron. So the momenta of the source and destination states must be pretty close, and for there to be an appreciable amount of direct recombination, the momenta of the CB's lowest-energy states must correspond to the VB's highest energy states, and this happens in direct bandgap semiconductors.

      Si, unfortunately, is an indirect bandgap semiconductor. The preferred source and destination states don't line up on energy-momentum diagram.

      Now, that doesn't mean it's impossible to get light out of silicon, just more difficult. You need what are called recombination centres, which are defects which the electrons can get trapped in (emitting phonons in the process and changing momentum) and from there drop to the VB (indirect recombination). For example, Al-doped SiC can be used to make blue LEDs, but their efficiency is measured in fractions of a percent.

      III-V semiconductors are made of elements in the III and V groups in the periodic table, GaAs being the most well-known. They tend to be direct bandgap semiconductors, and so they are far more conducive to direct recombination and are easier to make optoelectronics out of.

    3. Re:It's just a damn modulator by Spherical+Harmonic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed. I don't see how this changes the problem of having an expensive (III-IV) device BEHIND the modulator. If you want to send data quickly, you either need a fast (2.5Gb/s is industry standard now) vertical cavity surface emitting laser (VCSEL), or you need a cheap CD laser that can be electro-optically modulated quickly. The other issue is that the cost of the standard 850nm laser inside a short-range fiber-optic module is only a small fraction of the total cost of the module. Decreasing the cost of one single component doesn't "change the world"...

    4. Re:It's just a damn modulator by Hal-9001 · · Score: 5, Informative
      The article doesn't describe the technology -- is it electroabsorption? Mach-Zehnder?
      Thanks to my university's online subscription, I was able to read the actual Nature article. The device is a phase modulator and it actually uses the free carrier plasma dispersion effect (not a classical electrooptic field effect like the Pockels effect) to modulate the refractive index of silicon. They achieve this effect using a MOS capacitor instead of carrier injection or depletion in a p-i-n device. By doing so, they've boosted the modulation speed from 20 Mbps to 1 Gbps. To convert the phase modulation to amplitude modulation, they fabricate the device in one arm of a waveguide Mach-Zender. Admittedly, it's not a great advance in overall bitrate, but it is a significant step forward for silicon as a photonic material.
      --
      "It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
    5. Re:It's just a damn modulator by casehardened · · Score: 2, Informative

      The neat thing about silicon-on-insulator photonics is the bending radius. Since the index contrast is so high (3.5 vs 1.5), bends with radii under 50 microns are easily achievable. This makes high levels of integration possible. Thus, you can have modulators, wavelength filters, etc all on the same chip. Now your CPU can talk to your RAM at 16 Gbits with, say, 8-wavelength multiplexing.

  19. Re:Whoo now by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

    He said he was "Bond, James Bond"..then ordered a martini.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  20. Lightspeed limitations? by Stonent1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    So now the only barrier is the speed of light? Or do I need a nice warp core sitting in my living room to overclock?

  21. Not much effect on distances by MacGabhain · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Propogation of light through fiber is only about 50% faster than propogation of electrons through a copper conductor. The comments about making distance irrelevant seems completely unrelated to what's been accomplished.

    What Intel seems to be discussing is much faster transmission rates though the line (ie: bandwidth), which in itself is a really good thing if it's being done at reasonable heat and power levels.

    1. Re:Not much effect on distances by mlyle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Light through fiber doesn't allow other signals to couple in through inductively, capacitively, or through RF (assuming the fiber has good insulation around it that blocks light coming in). So you can run buses a lot longer. Usually capacitance and crosstalk become limiting on bus length.

      The speed of light is relevent too, but usually only for the number of wait states you need at the start of a bus transaction.

    2. Re:Not much effect on distances by qedigital · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is a common misconception that electrons move quickly through conductors. This, however, is not the case. When an electric field is applied to a conductor (e.g. from a battery), the random motion of the electrons in the material gain a small drift velocity. In copper (a relatively good conductor), this drift velocity is on the order of 10^-5 m/s to 10^-4 m/s (much less than c=3E8 m/s). The reason that conductors work the way they do is that the information is carried by the electric field rather than the individual electrons. A good analogy here is to think of a tube filled with ball bearings. Stuff one more bearing in the tube at one end and one pops out of the other "instantaneously". While the inserted bearing didn't travel the distance, it did have an effect at the end of the tube.

      Another common error is raised by the parent post. Transmission rate and bandwidth are completely different concepts. The transmission rate refers to the number of bits of information that can be transmitted down a pipe without loss (i.e. the capacity). Bandwidth, on the other hand, is a frequency domain concept and refers instead to the range of frequencies that the pipe can support. While it is true that a system with greater bandwith usually has greater capacity, it is a gross generalization.

      --

      Rapidly approaching the Zener knee...

    3. Re:Not much effect on distances by MacGabhain · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It depends on how the light is being transmitted. In most cases, you're right, and I believe the speed is about equal. It can, at least as I understand it, be focused to propogate roughly straight, but at greater cost.

      Come to think of it, electrons through copper are about 2/3 the speed of light through air, so unless they're way slower through semiconductors, it's not a speed of travel issue, it's a data/time issue.

      For anyone not familiar with the difference, propogation is the time it takes any particular bit to get from a to b (and is the big downside of using satellites). Transmission is the number of bits per second sent. It's like two cars going from a to b. They can both get there in 10 minutes, but the one carrying 5 passengers is transmitting more than the the one with the lone driver.

  22. Not to Overstate things, but... by pegasustonans · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a feeling this will one day be seen as a development with the same order of importance as say, the development of the first semiconductor. However, it will probably take at least a decade to sort out all of the implications.

    --
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
  23. New Class of Computing Applications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It will also make possible a new class of computing applications based on the possibility of transmitting high-definition video and images hundreds or even thousands of times faster than possible on today's Internet.


    When they say, "new class of computing applications" I take that to mean that this is the type of technology that Microsoft would take advantage of to facilitate a .NET variation. In other words, allow the application to run on the server, but the service to transfer large amounts of data back and forth from the user's terminal.

    If the transfer speeds are fast enough for this type of technology, couldn't we expect it to eventually get fast enough to replace set top boxes? We could be buying and running services instead of programs within the next decade, theoretically killing software piracy. Scary.
  24. Hmmm The Speed of Light is ... by joab_son_of_zeruiah · · Score: 5, Interesting
    fundamentally new kinds of computers not limited by physical distance should become a reality, experts say

    ... 186,000+/- miles per second. Enough delay to make TCP/IP "an issue" for satellite networks?

    I love generalization.

  25. Re:Can someone tell me.... by RandBlade · · Score: 2, Informative

    Flourescent and LED lights do generate heat, just not to the same order of magnitude as incadescent lights. Its significantly less, which I specifically mentioned in the post! However there is still some heat generated. If you place a lot of LED lights together though then they can generate enough heat as to become significant.

  26. Re:Can someone tell me.... by egomaniac · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fluorescent and LED lights do not get hot.

    Sure they do. They are far more efficient than incandescent bulbs, so they produce significantly less heat per lumen, but a very bright fluorescent or LED light can get quite hot.

    In fact, high-brightness LEDs like the Luxeon Star have to be mounted on heat sinks to keep them from burning up.

    --
    ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
  27. Still electro-optical (not all optical) by G4from128k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Its an interesting breakthrough, but only from the standpoint of manufacturing high speed optical interconnect systems using standard silicon as the substrate material. It would seem that the technology still relies on standard electronic computation, but has a convenient way to convert eletronic signals into photonic ones on a standard silicon chip (versus the more exotic materials currently used for optical modulators).

    Rather than create all-optical processors, this technology will be useful for building gigabit fiber interfaces directly into everyday silicon chips. I'd think that the next step for this stuff will be cheap fiber connections between peripherals and interal subsystems (Optical ATA anyone?) Then they will look to create optical traces that connect Intel processors, cache, RAM, I/O chips (if they can figure out how to mass-produce a optical fiber traces on a PCB).

    This breakthrough more of an interconnection technology than a computation technology.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  28. Re:Can someone tell me.... by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who modded this insightful? Lamps are hot because that's how incadescent technology works. Fluorescent and LED lights do not get hot.

    Not even LEDs are 100% efficient. However, for an optical system, the heat production is related to the duty cycle of the lamps, rather than the switching speed, so the heat production should remain constant regardless of clock speed.

    On the one hand, this means you don't need to improve cooling to overclock. On the other, it means that you can't improve the overclock level with improved cooling.

    --
    "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  29. Re:Can someone tell me.... by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Informative

    temperature, is really not the problem. The problem is stabilization. Different gates "stabilize" that is produce consitant output high or low at different rates, gates are strung together into circuits on the chip and thouse circuits then take a certain amount of time to stabilize, this is critical because the output of one circuit will be the input to another be it on the same IC or interfacing with something else. The reason you can overclock is in most cases ICs in computers the CPU in particular are underclocked to begin with. The clock cycle is longer then the stabiliation time when the chip is cool. However the voltage running though the traces and the swiches meets some resistence and part of it is disipated as heat, when silicon-eletric gates heat the respond slower and the stabilization time becomes longer, so the clock cycle must be longer if you want correct output. This is why if you take special meausers to keep the chip cooler you can often run it faster. Fiberoptics are not perfect and can heat too, the smaller you make them that problem is likely to exacerbate. The question I can't answer for you is wether that is a problem at all. silicon-optic gates may not vary in stabilization time in the same way that the electric counter parts do? They may and then the same rules apply or they could have some optimal temp where a cold chip does not work as well as a warm one? It might be they work perfectly up to a certain failure point?
    I would love some answers form an engineer who is working with this stuff.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  30. Re:Can someone tell me.... by PalmKiller · · Score: 5, Funny

    Um, that might not be wise. If you try to overclock past the speed of light, I think that will cause a rift in the Time/Space Continuum. :P

  31. Re:Can someone tell me.... by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Fluorescent and LED lights do not get hot."

    This is not true. They do get hot, just not as hot. They don't require as much energy to generate light.

    With that said, the question really can only be answered after we know about the design of the chip. If all the light emitting aspects of the chip can be run at full intensity without ever being turned off, and the chip can survive that, then the answer is yes, you can overclock it to the max without it burning out. Will the chips work that way? Well I don't know. We are talking about very small components.

    His question was quite valid.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  32. Re:Can someone tell me.... by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Informative

    probably the same person that modded yours informative. You are incorrect regarding fluorescents. I can't speak to diodes, but I have known them to be quite hot (such as in a rectifier) so I have doubts about that as well.

    Fluorescents DO get hot, as do the ballasts (see post below). I just got done in the lab measuring different ballast systems that use high frequency to energize high output fluorescent lamps. Current generation systems are twice as efficient as older systems by using HF but they still are hot as hell. The ambient temperature of a 100 watt fluorescent lamp, powered by only 65 watts of power (typical cpu power) at high frequency has an ambient temperature of over 100F at 6cm away. The surface temperature is over 212F (100C).

    So yes, fluorescents DO get hot. They just produce alot more light per BTU of waste heat, but still hot.

    Another problem: fluorescents are plasma devices, similar to neon signs. This means they operate in a semi vacuum (1% of atmosphere), with the electrical fields generated causing an outer electron of the mercury atom to fly off toward the positive end of the lamp, and strike the phosphor coating of the lamp. This reduces the energy in the electron, which then is captured by any mercury atom with an electron missing, thus with a positive charge. This is not a practical solution inside a integrated circuit. This isn't even including the other problems I mentioned in the other post, such as ballasting.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  33. NOT A CPU, you dopes! by jaoswald · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can you guys all shut up about Pentium and clockspeed for crying out loud?

    This is about optical networking using silicon as the semiconductor. Not about a CPU.

    Everyone who doesn't understand what an optical modulator is can go post on the latest SCO story. That is all.

  34. Finally.... by vwjeff · · Score: 5, Funny

    Computing at the speed of light. Oh, wait, bottlenecks. Damn you serial ATA Hard Drive!!!

  35. Not really by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

    Problem is to have three or four states, you need more complex circuity. Binary is simple and works well. A bit it a gate, a transistor. It's on or it's off, 1 or 0. Well if I want to represent four states, how do I do that? I guess I need to do it by voltage or amperage level. MEans I need a more complicated circut.

    Give you something of a parallel in another digital field:

    Digital CD audio is stored as 16-bits per sample, 44,100 samples per second. Well that means that to convert the digital data to analogue, which is what sound waves are, you need to change the output voltage of the state 44,100 times per second, and do it to a resolution of 65,536 different levels. Originally, D/A converters tried to do just that, and failed rather miserably. It was just all hell to build a circut that could do a good job of controling voltage that accurately that quick in that fashion.

    The answer, it turns out, came from computers and high current variable speed electric motors. Motors of that type are controlled using what is known as pulse wave modulation. Their power source is either all the way on, or all the way off, binary in other words. It pulses at a high rate of speed. What you do is the faster you want the motor to go, the more on pulses you have. Works great, you have a simple design that provides a fine level of speed control. Only down side is the motor whines at the frequency of the pulse.

    Now this was applied to audio as well. What you do is convert the PCM data on the CD to a much higher frequency 1-bit PWM stream. That then controls the analogue voltage. It ends up working great, so good in fact that sony has a new system called Sony Direct Stream Digital that just takes and stores the PWM data directly. This type of converter is called a Delta-Sigma D/A converter and is basically the only kind used any more. You may CD consumer equipemnt, espically older stuff (Sony Discmans did it a lot), occasionaly advertise it as "1-bit D/A".

    Binary systems are just simpler to implement in electronics, hence we do. It is at higher levels that they start representing data with multiple states.

    1. Re:Not really by volsung · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Incidentally, this was the trick used on that nifty TI graphing calculator hack which played "music" out the link port. The link port is just a digital I/O on the bottom of the calc, but someone figured out how to toggle it on and off in machine code to use it just like a "1-bit D/A". Plug some headphones in (with appropriate adapter) and you heard some really poor quality Green Day song. The frequency wasn't nearly high to be more than a proof of concept, but it was cool nevertheless.

    2. Re:Not really by tho+1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The thing is if you look at the complexity of the circuit/number of transistors in a delta-sigma DAC, it is orders of magnitude more complex than the traditional current-stearing DAC.

      The reason that the "digital" system, the delta sigma DAC, comes out ahead is the real strength of digital systems- noise immunity.

      With the traditional DAC's, there are only 16 current sources/resistors in the whole chip, but each one needed to be trimmed by a laser to a very precise value. This costs a lot of money, which is why you need to spend 10x more on the chip to produce the same performance as a delta-sigma DAC. (most industrial DAC's and high-end audio still use this system)

      With the delta-sigma DAC, you can put in several thousand transistors, but each one only needs to respond to two voltage levels. Each transistor can be poorly made, it just needs to be good enough to turn on when the voltage goes high and turn off when the voltage goes low. So digital chips require much less precision and can be made at much lower cost.

      Basically, it is much cheaper to make tons of cheap transistors rather than one precise/accurate one.

      That is the same reason binary is better than trinary- Trinary systems would probably require less transistors than a comparable binary system, but each one would need to be much more precise.

  36. Re:Can someone tell me.... by Jaysyn · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is much better than early forays into this technology by AMD where the heatsink would fall off of the processor & the resultant heat would generate the light.

    Jaysyn

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
  37. Stickers make it go faster! by TheDukePatio · · Score: 5, Funny
    What's more likely is that they had a couple highschool kids lower the chips 2", crazy glue a spoiler on, install neon undercarriage lights, a fake pushbutton labeled "Nitrous", and stickers, LOTS of stickers.

    New Codename: Ricer

    --
    To Alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
  38. Thermal expansion? by Absurd+Being · · Score: 2, Informative

    Heat will probably be a problem. Since you're dealing with photonic crystals, a small change (a few angstroms) in size (heat related) will change the optical properties of the device dramatically. But light doesn't heat up materials quite as dramatically as rapidly switching MOSFETS. And you don't get waste tunneling currents at small sizes either. So you can make better device. However, you CAN'T actually overclock, you'll mess up the optical properties of the device severely if you switch to different frequencies (turning a diffraction pattern that indicates an OR into an AND, for instance).

    --
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    1. Re:Thermal expansion? by Crazy+Eight · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think you guys are over-thinking and/or not addressing the question. Overclocking aside, the guy is wondering if digital circuits that use light will generate heat like electric ones do -- through simple Resistance -- or if they would behave like a PIII made from superconductors.

      This is a much simpler question that I too am curious about. When Intel does their HDTV demo will the 5 mile coil of fibre get warm -- however imperceptibly -- because photons are "flowing" through it? If so, would that show up dramatically at small scales?

  39. Re:Still binary...he's onto something by Clod9 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Every reply here points out that logic complexity goes up as the size of the base goes up from 2, to 3, to 4.

    But the article was about communications, not logic. What if we had broadband optical fiber transmission, where a single pulse has, say, 128 frequency levels that could be gated? Sure, you'd have to have an array of controls on both ends, but it would be linear (N gates for N levels) and in fact, this is part of the significance of Intel's announcement. They claim the gates can be made more cheaply in masked silicon wafers instead of the more expensive current technology, and that's reasonable.

    They claim a 2 ghz clock cycle on the gating; imagine a light pipe transmitting 128-bit words at that rate. That's a fat pipe.

  40. Optical Speed Limit... by a1cypher · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wouldnt the speed that you can achieve using optical chips be limited to the speeds that you can transmit/interpret the optics? I dont see how that could make things any faster seeming how the speed of the reciever portion of the chip would be bounded by the same laws of current chips, and thus would be limited to the same speed as existing chips.

    Unless there have been actual optical logic gates designed (ie two optical sources going into a single non-electric device that will only output a single value (bounded by and/or/xor/xand theory), I dont see how this can increase speed.

  41. Re:Can someone tell me.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I will add to the other responses that LEDs are quite inefficient. LEDs are not much more efficient than incadescent lamps. We use large arrays of LEDs for special copier devices. They have about 500 LEDs in an 8x10 array, and they get too hot to touch on the interior. They get hotter than hell. Their prime selling point is their longevity. That's why they are being used in automobiles and traffic control devices.

    Fluorescent lamps with high efficiency ballasts are much more efficient than either incadescent or LEDs by orders of magnitudes. That's why they are THE ideal choice for all interior lighting. People that complain about the color temperature of fluorescents are ignorant of the fact that their are a number of choices available other than "office" temperature. Guests in my home are surprised to find that all lighting in my house is fluorescent. You'll be surprised how many people still don't realize that those fixtures down at the Home Despot have a tone that is very close to incadescent bulbs.

  42. BLAH BLAH BLAH (the short and sweet) by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 5, Informative

    After reading the article, it turns out that *all* this hoo-ha is about the fact that INtel has worked out how do do telecommunications level optical switching (read LED-LASER-RAPID-BLINKING) on a chip built using "normal" chip fabrication techniques.

    This is in no way about "faster CPUs" it's ALL about "now we can fabricate telecomms equipment using standard CPU techniques, so they'll be cheaper and therefore easier to put into devices".

    So you're not likely to be getting significantly faster PCs from this technology, though it *does* make more likely the chance of (one day) having a direct gigabit fiber port on your PDA (or digital camera/other-small-electronics-device)

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  43. Link to the Nature Paper by sfp2322 · · Score: 2, Informative
  44. HOP by forkboy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hooked on Photonics worked for me!

    --
    This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
  45. MODS ON CRACK by Dasein · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This question is not off-topic. They talk about being able to do optical switching at consumer prices.

    So the immediate question that I have is, "Why would I, a consumer, want that?" One possible answer is that I have fiber to my house.

    Short of that, why would I want it? Would I want to convert my existing network to optical. Nope, I want less wires instead of more wires. One of the quotes even talks about people being able to watch multiple views of the Superbowl.

    No, the mod that said this was on topic is full of crap.

    --
    You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
  46. You missed other heat sources by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not even LEDs are 100% efficient. However, for an optical system, the heat production is related to the duty cycle of the lamps, rather than the switching speed, so the heat production should remain constant regardless of clock speed.

    That's true of the heat production in the guts of the lamp itself (at a given light intensity). But there are other factors.

    On the one hand, this means you don't need to improve cooling to overclock. On the other, it means that you can't improve the overclock level with improved cooling.

    Most of the heat loss in a circuit comes from the I-squared-R losses of the currents needed to charge and discharge the stray capacatance of the wiring (even the tiny traces on the ICs) and the space-charge of the devices.

    In particular, if the wire has any significant length, you need to run that current through a series resistance (at least at the driving end) matching the impedence of the wire, in order to produce a nice waveshape at the far end and prevent "ringing" as the signal bounces back-and-forth (which would degrade the waveshape at the inputs to far-end gates and make the signal both more sensitive to noise AND more generative of noise to interfere with its neighbors.)

    With CMOS you only pull power (except leakage power) when you CHANGE the state of a signal. But when you do, you have to charge, or discharge, the signal wiring through that matched resistance. The impedence of the wiring doesn't change a lot with technology and speed. So with a given length of wire, you have a given amount of energy dropped every time you switch it. Switch it twice as fast, generate twice as many pulses of heat.

    New generations of semiconductors fight this in three ways:
    - Shrink the components (so they have less stray capacatance to charge and discharge).
    - Shorten the signal runs by making the components smaller so they can be closer together (reducing the stray capacatance of the lines). (But this doesn't help for signals that HAVE to cross the chip, or leave it.)
    - Lower the power supply voltage (so you don't have to swing it as far. Current goes up with the the voltage, heat loss with the square of the current.) (For signals that leave the chip this may be harder to do than for signals that stay on it - due to external interference.)

    For switching a light-emitting device you still have to charge and discharge the capacatance of the device itself and the wiring to it. Switch it faster and IT doesn't heat up much more. But the driver circuit does.

    By putting a light modulator on the chip, Intel's new technology wins in two ways:
    - You don't have to rapidly switch the power to the laser (which involves switching a LOT of current through an impedence-matching resistor).
    - You don't have to run a microwave-speed signal through a long resistive wire, which degrades its waveshape and also produces still more losses.
    Instead you switch a low-power, short-range, on-chip wire to a low-capacatance active region on the on-chip modulator. Switching losses are relatively small, comparable to those of a gate-to-gate internal signal in the same chip.

    --
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  47. A quote from the article to chew on by PowerPill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "It will free computer designers to think about the systems they create in new ways, making it possible to conceive of machines that are not located in a single physical place, according to scientists and industry executives."

    Ok is it just me or has anyone else thought of the possibilities behind this statement? It could mean a few things but what rings for me is the end of the "personal" computer and the beginning of the "personal computing" service. Where The HP's and Dell's etc of the world keep all the systems while you purchase their own branded access to the system. Essentially you don't have a computer any longer but only client access. The end result is still much the same for all intents and puposes but no longer a physical system sitting on your desk. Like Citrix, VNC or rdesktop on crack.

    That idea could be way out to lunch but all the same I can't say I really care for it. Hmm...

  48. No distance limitation by Mikoca · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was thinking, if they use light, than the limitation on the size of the chip will disappear (or become less important, rather) and you could have a chip big enough so that you can actually see how it works. Wouldn't that be cool?

  49. you are a little confused .... by taniwha · · Score: 4, Informative
    'tertiary' logic and 'tristate' have different meanings. Tristate is simply a way of making a gate not drive a wire - so that some other gate can without 'bus fights' - there are no gates there that can sense that the wire is not being driven.

    In fact the signal on such a wire will tend to hang around at about the level it was last driven for quite a while (the wire is a cap) untill it discharges or some other gate drives it.

    In fact internal wires that are genuinely tristate are considered evil in most chip deigns - a floating signal will tend to turn on both the transistors in the gate(s) being driven causing current to flow where it shouldn't (one should be on or the other not both) - chips with internal floating nodes can et into horrible lockupstate which cause thermal runnaway and chip death. Normally if you are using tristate circuits you have a resistor to pull the wire to a known value when not in use, a weak 'keeper' transistor, a protocol which makes sure that someone is always driving them or a combination (PCI is a great example where all the bus clients know whow's driving each wire at any time and when wires are released they are first driven to a safe keeper voltage and then released so a weak resistor can hold them)

  50. Breakthrough? by Grave · · Score: 5, Funny

    SAN FRANCISCO, Feb. 11 -- Intel scientists say that they have made silicon chips that can switch light like electricity, blurring the line between computing and communications and presenting a vision of the digital future that will allow computers themselves to span cities or even the entire globe.

    Great! I was getting so tired of my computer being only 5lbs and man-portable! I can't wait for these new planet-sized computers. Mine's going to be called the Death Star.

    1. Re:Breakthrough? by psoriac · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wouldn't "Unicron" be a better name for something like a planet-sized computer?

      --
      I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
  51. photonic clocking by griffinp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Having not read the paper, it's hard to say how great this works, but it's worth mentioning that optical microchip clocking may be a major development over the coming decade. As clock speeds get faster (4GHz anyone?), small variations called clock skew and jitter become critical difficulties. Basically, because the clock signal doesn't propagate in an exactly predictable amount of time, different chip parts end up out of sync. Because optical clocking would rely on waveguides, with faster transmission and using uncharged particles that don't pick up random electrical signals, sending clock signals via light waves could be very beneficial. Of course, this development only speaks of the sending end - the modulator - not the receiving end, but we can be sure that Intel and many others are hard at work developing this technology.

  52. Breaking the laws of physics? by euxneks · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...barrier to building fundamentally new kinds of computers not limited by physical distance should become a reality, experts say...

    I was under the impression that physical distance was always a limitation...? Which "experts" are saying this?

    --
    in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
    1. Re:Breaking the laws of physics? by TheInternet · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was under the impression that physical distance was always a limitation...?

      Depends on which physics you want to use. :)

      - Scott

      --
      Scott Stevenson
      Tree House Ideas
  53. You don't understand by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To make a gate that can handle more than one state, you need more than units than states. I mean, I can implement a binary gate really simply, just a single transistor. How would you implement a trinary gate? TRy and design something more simple (taht can be designed on silicon). Also remember that it needs to be usable in the end. This means that:

    1) It needs to be usable in the end. Binary is simple, when voltage is present, it causes something to happen, another gate to flip, a value in a memory circut to be set or unset, etc. With a larger set of states you again need more circutry to be able to differentiate one state from another which again increases complexity more than gain.

    2) Be able to keep the states consistent. IT's easy with binary, on or off, voltage present or absent. With more states it gets hard, how is one defined from teh next, and what happens if the input voltage changes (which does happen) and changes the amount flowing through. I mean if the voltage sas for a second, does that throw off all calculations? Computers are imperitive devices. It is necessiary that one stage be able to rely on the fact that the result of the prior stage was correct.

    3) As I mentioned, you need to be able to implement it on a silicon chip. YOu might be able to get some complex device that daels with a bunch of potentiometres and count those as "gates" but you'd be forgetting that they aren't implementable on silicon as a transistor is. Thus you get nothing workable in teh end.

    Look, you're welcome to try and design a higher state chip, but I'll give good odds that you don't get anything even near working. IF you like, I'll run the idea past the EEs at work, but I already know what they are going to say.

    Now quantum computers are entirely different. They solve problems in a whole different way and, indeed, work on a different level than conventional computers. But for the normal silicon chips, you are stuck with binary. Nothing else can be made workable.

    1. Re:You don't understand by smallfries · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or you could just use the off-the-shelf components that do it already. Here's a good background:
      http://www.theseus.com/FramesTech.htm

      More is available from:
      http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/async/background/in dex.htm l

      You have a tradeoff because the 'wires' are actually pairs of wires and the gates are more complex but you win because of the power-savings in not having to drive a clock through the chip. Manchester's AMULET project has been around for quite a while now, they have a working chip design thats quite similar to an ARM design.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  54. We HAVE that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Informative

    It is fairly uncommon to find transmissions over long distances that are just simple on-off pulses. Even modesms don't do that, and haven't for a long time. They came to find out that 300bps is about the max you can do with simple on-off signaling. So faster modems use more complex modulations that heve multiple different tones and amplitude levels.

    On the newest and most abstract level we see DWDM fibre transmissions. This takes multiple signals at different fewquencies of light (the individual transmissions which are usualy more than simple on/off) and multiplexes the singal over a single fibre.

    None of that bears any relation to processing on silicon chips.

  55. Afloat you say? by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Informative

    what is keeping America afloat?

    is a good question

    The 8.2% third quarter growth was purchased on credit-the $374 billion budget deficit that was the largest in the country's history. All indications are that next year's deficit will be even larger, exceeding half a trillion dollars.

    Any idiot with a hand full of credit cards charged to the next generation's children can gin up the short term illusion of prosperity. Until, that is, the bills come due.

    George W. Bush inherited a $127 billion fiscal surplus but ran through all of that and more in his first year. He has turned a $5.6 trillion 10 year forecast surplus into a $3+ trillion forecast loss-an almost unimaginable reversal of $9 trillion in only three years.

    The result of this almost psychotic profligacy, according to the Congressional Budget Office, will be a national debt of $14 trillion in 10 years. Interest payments alone will approach a trillion dollars a year and will exceed spending for all discretionary federal programs combined.

    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0105-08.htm

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:Afloat you say? by AbsalomDaak · · Score: 2, Informative
      "George W. Bush inherited a $127 billion fiscal surplus but ran through all of that and more in his first year. He has turned a $5.6 trillion 10 year forecast surplus into a $3+ trillion forecast loss-an almost unimaginable reversal of $9 trillion in only three years."

      Isn't true, there hasn't been any "surplus". When Clinton got out we we're in DEBT and we still are, just worse. In actual fact the government has been runnning in debt since at least the 1920's. (Note these figures are based on the fiscal years, not when the President was inaugurated, from Official Current US Debt)

      The Debt when Reagan got in:

      12/31/1980 $930,210,000,000.00
      The Debt after Reagan's first term:

      12/31/1984 $1,662,966,000,000.00 (+.6 trillion)
      The Debt when Bush I got in:

      09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16 (+1.6 trillion for Reagan in eight years)
      When Bush I left and Clinton got in:

      09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66 (+1.4 trillion for Bush I in four years)
      The Debt after Clinton's first term:

      09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73 (+1.1 trillion)
      The Debt when Clinton left office:

      09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86 (+1.6 trillion for Clinton in 8 years)
      The Current debt:

      02/10/2004 $7,012,102,110,400.63 (+1.3 trillion for Bush II in 3 years)
      All of the last few presidents have been steadily increasing the debt by huge margins, it's nothing new (unfortunately).
      See Government Debt or Official Current US Debt

    2. Re:Afloat you say? by CommieOverlord · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Debt is different then deficit.

      Debt is the accumulation of previous deficits.

      A deficit is the net loss for a specific time period (say 1 year).

      For example, the US may have had a $6B debt in 1999. But that year government expenditures where $100M less than revenue. Therefore they had a surplus.

    3. Re:Afloat you say? by Atryn · · Score: 3, Informative
      Isn't true, there hasn't been any "surplus". When Clinton got out we we're in DEBT and we still are, just worse.
      This is a very common misunderstanding and the language must be very clear. Many Americans (unfortunately) do not understand the difference between deficit/surplus and debt. The "deficit" is the amount by which federal spending exceeds federal income in the current year budget. The debt, OTOH, is what the U.S. owes its creditors. See also here

      The relationship is that the deficit is the amount by which the federal debt will grow in a given year. To complicate matters, the Congressional Budget Office forecasts the "projected deficit/surplus" often for the next 5, 10 or 20 years. These "projections" are based on a host of variables but are generally based on the current tax policies, projected tax revenues (hence projected employment, spending, etc. are factors) and projected expense changes (bills already passed that have spending which kicks in in the future, etc.). These CBO reports are valuable for showing what may or may not need to be fixed/changed, but they should never be considered accurate as all of the variables change (often significantly) each year (espescially the tax code lately).

      There was a forecasted "surplus" at the end of Clinton's term. This did not mean that we would be out of debt (a $179B surplus cannot pay off $5 trillion in debt). However, it did mean that we should be able to begin to pay off the debt, thereby reducing future interest payments (which yields a higher forecasted surplus).

      Since most American's do not understand this, and most cannot comprehend what $7 Trillion really is, they tend to ignore the issue. But if we do not start paying down the debt, we will run into major problems. If the world stops buying US Treasury notes, we will have to find some other way to get the money to pay for our deficit spending.

      I'm sure the above has a few mistakes, this topic is fairly confusing and controversial. Several of the above items are also interpreted differently by some folks. See Also Here

      Flame away.
      --
      Come play Moral Decay!
    4. Re:Afloat you say? by AbsalomDaak · · Score: 2, Informative
      Except that there has not been a single year in the last 20 that the debt has gone down. In other words each year there has been a deficit.
      (Information source: Historical Debt)

      2002-2003 $555B deficit
      2001-2002 $421B deficit
      2000-2001 $133B deficit
      1999-2000 $ 18B deficit
      1998-1999 $130B deficit
      1997-1998 $113B deficit
      1996-1997 $189B deficit
      1995-1996 $251B deficit
      1994-1995 $281B deficit
      1993-1994 $281B deficit
      1992-1993 $347B deficit
      1991-1992 $399B deficit
      1990-1991 $432B deficit
      1989-1990 $376B deficit
      1988-1989 $255B deficit
      1987-1988 $252B deficit
      1986-1987 $225B deficit
      1985-1986 $180B deficit *note fiscal year end changed from Dec 31, to Sep 30
      1984-1985 $283B deficit
      1983-1984 $252B deficit


      Where are the surpluses?

      There is not a single year the debt has gone down. In fact, the last actual surplus was a $581M dollar surplus in the 1959-1960 year.
      12/31/1959 290,797,771,717.63
      12/30/1960 290,216,815,241.68
      1959-1960 ---- 580,956,475.95 surplus
  56. Re:Can someone tell me.... by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Funny


    When is it that one thinks 'okay, I have enough porn now' ?

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  57. Is Intel seriously sweating? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    AMD comes out with a nice 64 bit CPU, Intel takes their highest end 32bit CPU, repackages it for a desktop, at twice the price, and barely competes.

    AMD's 64 bit solution looks to beat the pants off of Itanium... Intel's statement that they're working on an x86 64 bit CPU says everything we need to know.

    Sun partners with AMD - smartest move they could have made, especially if they jointly develop the next generation of AMD CPUs. Can we say massively SMP processing added to a fast core?

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.