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Jet-powered Nausicaa Glider Project
SuperElectric writes "As reported on slashdot.jp, Opensky is a project led by media artist Kazuhiko Hachiya to implement a working, jet-powered version of Moewe, the vehicle (pic) that the heroine rides on in "Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind". They've successfully test-flown (.mov, 8.6MB) a 1/2 scale model, and are moving into phase 2, which includes interviewing for test pilots (women only!). Can anybody knowledgeable in experimental aeronautics speculate on how doable this is? While it's not designed for general production (riders must be less than 50 kg/120 lbs), this would certainly beat Segway any day!"
And Nausicaa wears no underwear. Not that I was looking or anything...
Don't pay any attention to the stacks of Sailor Moon and tentacle porn DVDs under my bed!
I have been pwned because my
Cool when can I have one , and does it play mp3's ?
i have no sig
I'd bet the plane turns out the same way: extra crispy :)
got sig?
Well, off to join my buddy Wile E. Coyote, walking off cliffs and holding up little signs and waving bye-bye before I fall and that sort of thing.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
So Ya, Post a 8.6MB Movie file on the front page of /. and see what happens...
GOOD JOB!!
Totoro died, I have no reason to live anymore.
WTF.. how long has this been around?
If I could lose 10 lbs. do you think they'd let a guy be a test pilot? 6'2" 130 lbs... Anyway, regardless of how "doable" this is, doesn't it seem like a potentially dangerous means of transportation. I mean, I could understand people who already hang glide wanting one, but would you really feel safe flying this around a busy city? Granted, even if you don't feel safe, you'd look bad ass.
Why? Those people who can use this gilder are either: naturally small and/or fairly in shape. The Segway, however, has no such restrictions, and allows anyone to go fast without effort.
In shorter: wider (figuratively) audience == good.
EVERYDAY IS CATURDAY
This is taking "cosplay" to a whole new level. Now with real working props!
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
Yes, but now to the real question: can they make the Batplane?
which includes interviewing for test pilots (women only!)
Actually, I remember the FAQ saying that women are preferable, weight and all :) Though I'm not that proficient in Japanese, and babelfish spits out mostly nonsense, so might have missed something. Don't forget, Nausicaa wasn't the only one able to fly such a glider well...
P.S. Please stop with those underwear jokes! See the movie(and watch what people are wearing), RTFF at nausicaa.net and keep in mind the messed up colours, too.(OT: read the manga tooThe simple fact that they've flown a 1/2 scale model indicates they have the aerodynamic controlls down well enough to get it into the air. From just looking at the model, it seems like it would be inherently unstable and require some respectably fast computer mediation of the controls.
Would _I_ fly it? (assuming I was the size of an "Anime babe") I would have to say "Maybe." If it had a recovery chute, it would probably be safe enough - and a real hoot to fly.
Though laying on TOP of a running jet engine doesn't seem like fun. Worse than piloting an old style racing sidehack...
Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence...
They've successfully test-flown a 1/2 scale model, and are moving into phase 2, which includes interviewing for test pilots (women only!). Can anybody speculate on how doable this is?
Well, all they really need to do now is find a midget to fly the thing and its done!
You can't take the sky from me...
We're stabbing Picard in the heart, again?
(riders must be less than 50 kg/120 lbs) Sooo, this excludes like 95% of all americans.....
I'm curious about the degree of comfort when landing this thing. The undercarriage looks awfully small and your feet would most probably hit the ground before you go down to a decent speed. I'd hate to have to jump off in mid-air and perform a bad-ass roll everytime I have to go somewhere! (While also destroying my mean of transportation in a spectacular crash.) (These people might have played BF1942 before and realized that's how everyone land in that game, so it must be the best way to do it...)
This just in:
Scientists at an unknown and undisclosed location are researching into how to create giant bugs that clean up pollution. Plans have been made for a test run of these bugs in New Jersey. Details at 10!
A lot of technology stems from ideas and designs in science-fiction. Always has always will probably. Submarine, Fax machine, just about everything on my desk.
So, like, yeah. It is only a cartoon, but then some guy went out and built technology from that cartoon, so now it's sitting right there on a football feild. Neat.
Disclaimers: 1] I've never seen the cartoon in question, and I'm not going to rush out to grab a copy... for reasons that are my own, and Maddox's. 2] I like anime, just not every single damn thing penned. Flying schoolgirls? Creepy. I'll stick with the giant robots kthx.
-- The unsig...
Anime is one thing, but bringing this idea to life as a jet powered aircraft which could potentially take the life of the person piloting it in some, not too pleasant ways is yet another.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Can anybody knowledgeable in experimental aeronautics speculate on how doable this is?
IANAAE (I am not an aeronautical engineer), but I am willing to speculate that it is not doable with legos. Not even with Mindstorms.
Last time I checked, at the best of times, jet engines ain't quite.
Watching the video, I was about to comment that shouldn't they consider including a dummy pilot in their half-sized flight model?
Then I saw the end of the film.
THAT THING'S FREAKING HUGE!
Seriously, there *is* a dummy pilot on their test model, but she's about the size of a 12-inch Star Wars doll. What's that going to put the full-sized mehve at, like a thirty-foot wingspan?!
It's waycool work and all, I don't deny that, but Nausicaa's mehve was a personal aircraft she could drag about tossed over her shoulder, and it was mostly steered by shifting her body weight, non unlike a hangglider. The big difference was that its jet propulsion gave it enough speed that it didn't need to be so large as a hangglider in order to generate sufficient lift.
That's what made it so amazing, and that's what made too fantastic to replicate in real life. These designers' trick? Make the thing so UNGODLY HUGE that the pilot has a minimal impact upon its aerodynamics and center of gravity.
So, waycool that they built it and all, but not nearly as cool as the tiny personal aircraft in the original manga.
I hope the guy who invented this glider doesn't use performance-enhancers, go insane, and start blowing up New York while wearing a Green Goblin costume.
I am officially gone from
It doesn't look much worse than riding a fast motorcycle. Maybe they'd need to add a small windshield for the pilot if the nose didn't separate enough of the airstream, and flying inverted might be hard work, but that's all part of the fun.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
The U2 spyplane was basically a glider design with a jet engine stuffed into it.
The idea was to have a craft with an overly-large wingspan to be able to fly at the (then) extreme altitudes contemplated by the U2 designers.
I have something in common with Stephen Hawking...
Lets see, that's no more Dr. Pepper, no more Coffee, no more pizza, no more beer[!!!!!!!!!!!!!]...
My God, this is the spawn of Satan!!!!!!!!!
It must burn!!!!!
I had a go of the first prototype, but it made me nauseous
score: -1 pun
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
I didn't know suicide was still a popular thing to do in Japan. The aircraft in the photo looks spectacularly unstable.
"Can anybody knowledgeable in experimental aeronautics speculate on how doable this is?"
IANAAE (I-am-not-an-aeronatical-engineer, yes folks, a new acronym is born) but I think this thing is pretty dang doable.
Which illustrates the point...why would you consult slashdot for aeronautical advice?
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
Nooooooooooooo :)
He forgot to tell you about the horrible, pathetic creature called "Warriors of the Wind" which belongs in the trash can in the same store. Do not as much as try to watch it(I'm serious, RTFF)!
Btw, you probably won't be able to find the video in North America, not until April, at least, but you'll always find the manga(which of course is much more valuable)...
That flying wing sure isn't going to. Just the pendulum instability from the offset between CG and CL (that's center of gravity and center of lift for you 'dotters who never study anything but web engines and FPS technique) is going to drive you bats, and each change in thrust or drag is going to result in pitch moments. If designed badly, these can be fatal; if you have any doubts about this, you should look into the history of "interesting" airplanes like the original Mignet HM-14 Flying Flea.
There is a very real possibility of any such craft having serious PIOs (pilot-induced oscillations). Have them in a situation where you have no time to recover, and you can lose the airframe along with the crew.
While I am a firm believer in the value of Darwin Awards, I thnk that such a machine should not be flown with a human aboard. No matter how utterly fucking kewl all those anime fans would think it was, their refusal to recognize the distinction between cartoon physics and reality is not worth someone else's life, or undamaged brain, or functional spinal cord. It's appropriate that such a machine fly with only a dummy aboard; if it cracks up, you've got a hilarious photo-op rather than a tragedy.
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
That's nice. Too bad the FAA doesn't have any jurisdiction in Japan where this is being built.
News for Otaku, Stuff that matters
I flew hang gliders for years. This thing looks like a death trap. The center of mass is on top of the wing. It should be hanging underneath like a hang glider. Just look at bag fags (I mean parapente pilots) to see the extreme case of a wing stabilized by the mass hanging underneath. So to turn it, you oooch over a little bit to lean it, oooch too far and over she goes. Front, back left or right, it doesn't matter. Maybe it flies well upside down though. Guess they'll find out. Hope they have enough altitude when they do though. How do you land it? You can't flare it like a hang glider.
Sheesh.
I am now Richard Stallman on slashdot.jp. Lord help me use this to troll wisely.
You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
(1) Females are strongly preferred.
(2) Weight limits of 35kg (77lbs) and 50kg (100lbs)
(3) Age limits of 20 and 35
(4) Two pictures: one which shows the face and another which shows the whole body.
Sounds more like an audition for a movie or something...
...as opposed to propeller-powered gliders, I guess. Sounds like something military intelligence cooked up....
FYI: Patrick Stewart will be doing one of the voice of Yupa in the upcoming US release of Nausicaa.
From the German for "Seagull".
The opening sequence in Nasuicaa where she glides over the desert is really fantastic if you're into flying although you know in the back of your mind something like this would never be stable.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
There is nothing that says that this thing cannot fly ever. Sure, there are many calculations to perform, but the design isn't inherently unusable.
First of all, the main thing to notice is the lack of a tail. The main difficulty with the lack of a tail is that you need to balance both Cm (moment coefficient) and AOA (angle of attack) with the trailing edge of the same airfoil, namely the wings. While possible, it's not an easy thing to do. Essentially, for the vehicle to be stable, it needs to have a positive pitching moment at zero AOA (Cmo) and a negative derivative of the pitching moment with respect to AOA (Cmalpha). With a flying wing, the positive Cmo is not difficult to achieve, it's the negative Cmalpha that's difficult. Think of it this way, if the plane is disturbed such that the nose goes up (ie: updraft), the plane needs to have the nose tend down. Tails are really good for this, but without a tail, it's pretty difficult.
The simplest solution is to push back the aerodynamic center (AC) of the wing. Since most wing profiles have an AC at about 1/4 chord (25% from leading edge) for subsonic applications, a profile not used commonly must be used. Once again, this can be done... it's just not very common.
The winglets are a nice touch... helps decrease downwash and therefore overall lift. That, and I think winglets are sexy.
Yes, I'm an aeronautical geek. Deal.
IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
It's possible to build very stable aircraft, but they have high drag, because the stabilizing aerodynamic forces are fighting each other. Engine power can overcome this, which is what they're doing. This isn't a glider.
If this thing is ever flown successfully by a human, it's going to be an experienced test pilot who flies the thing. Someone who's flown very unstable aircraft. It's not going to be steered by leaning; it will need a full set of control surfaces. And they'll have to figure out some way to attach the pilot to the craft.
Yes, but you still won't have a 5 digit user ID here, will you? And besides... Isn't the whole thing a little bit pointless? I don't even look at user IDs unless somebody calls attention to theirs. I judge posts by their *content*... imagine that!
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Assuming that the person on top of the craft would truly be the pilot and that the mass of the pilot is not insignificant to the overall mass of the plane - any control system used would have the very fun task of having to differentiate between forces exerted by the pilot's hands/body to remain balanced on the craft and the forceful inputs (ie lean left to turn left) required to control the direction of the craft.
Imagine holding on for dear life, getting a hand cramp, leaning over to distribute your weight to your other hand and the aircraft making an unintentional hairpin-turn/dive. WEEEEEE!!!!
That's the mental picture I get of the whole thing.
BVMjets is a place where you can purchase the engine.
Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant. The population is growing.
With all due respect, you're wrong.
color me unimpressed...
:-)
i've been flying Zagi flying wings for about 2 years now..
bfd.
this thing doesn't even look as big or as fast as the new dual engine Zagi XT, which basically is just a $250 70 mph crash just waiting to happen.
holy shit - those videos are crazy.. you have better be someplace where augering in at 90 mph is not a big deal... and you better have reaction times like a rattlesnake on a triple espresso.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Read up on the Wright brothers some time. They were losing pilots (and planes) at an alarming rate.
A large number of the losses were caused by pilots (barnstormers) trying to show off. The Wrights and others were constantly trying to figure out how to prevent this before bad press killed aviation.
Now we have enough experience in aerodynamics and control theory to say something *is* dangerous, and you get in a huff about some guy's "attitude" for pointing out the dangers.
Dreams and experimentation belong in the lab, not in PR stunts. Tools can be dangerous. Sometimes reality hurts.
Someone build a fun new plane they have succesfully tested. Not some toy model but fully functional jet plane that can take of and land and is easily controlled by remote.
And what is the reaction? Oh it will never fly, it did fly. It is to unstable to control, they did control it and without a crash. Now most /. stories have a lot of uninformed opinions but usually there are at least a couple of people who happen to know what they are talking about. Where are the pilots today?
The thing does fly, wether it is safe with a human on top remains to be seen. But the aircraft without the pilot is not that different from a simple flying wing design. Flying wings are hardly new.
What is different is the placement of the payload. In the movie she lies down flat on top of it and stands on it. Most flying wing designs put the payload inside the wing.
First of laying on top of it. While this would be the most logical thing to do (look at a commercial airliner and replace the tube of the fuselage with a human body same idea) and not disrupt the aircrafts stability you would be just a passenger since there are no traditional controls (some way to move the ailerons) and you would be unable to affect the aircraft much with a shifting in weight (yes hanggliders can but the pilot is farther away from the wing making a small movement have a bigger effect). Depending on the size of the final aircraft you would also have to be carfull not to let the feet dangle in front of the exhaust. A running jet engine is not something you want to be close too. (carrier crew member around?).
Standing on top of it would create a huge amount of drag but would be doable. It is hardly a new stunt to stand on the wings of an aircraft. Don't forget that even the scale model is hardly small. The final aircraft would be pretty normal in wingspan to existing single seaters. As for controlling the aircraft in this way. Unless the aircraft is naturally very close to stable but not to stable I think it would be hard. Airliners are designed to be stable and the aircraft needs constant pressure to change its flightpath from straight and level. An F16 is extremely unstable and can only be flown by a computer. The pilot only telling the computer what the desired attitude is.
Both are not exactly designs you would want to control by shifting weights around. All but hanggliders control flight by altering the shape of the wing (correct me if I am wrong). This might be the hardest thing to do. BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. If the aircraft can be made stable enough of its own then a mere shifting of weight should affects its flightpath. Only direct control you can't do without is a throttle.
Moving between lying down and standing up would also significantly alter the profile of the aircraft. Unless the final aircraft is so big that the change in drag is meaningless.
I am not a flight engineer but I do have an avid intrest in flight and am the kinda idiot that devours books and docu's on flight pioneers. I think the makers of this plane know a lot more about flight then me and the people that have reacted so far.
Cool stuff.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You try to sound like you know what you are talking about, but you obviously don't. Flying wings can be every bit as stable as a conventional aircraft.
BTW: CL stands for Coeficient of Lift, what you meant was CP, Center of Pressure.
And WTF is pendulum instability? I've never heard the term by anyone in the aviation industry.
And yes I DO design aircraft for a living.
Disclaimer: I am an aersopace engineering student.
The model they are building is significantly different from the craft from the anime series. The aerodynamic center of the aircraft seems to be more or less in the same location as the center of gravity, making the plane slightly statically unstable. Static instability is not a barrier to success, though, as the first Wright Flyer, the X-29, the F-18 and a number of other aircraft have been statically unstable. In order to fly it, there will need to be constant pilot input and it will have to have some way of generating a controlled pitching moment. The original craft pictured would simply flip over, stall and crash, because the only way to change it's pitching moment would be by shifting the pilots weight around all the time, which would be very difficult in an unstable aircraft. However, the model has swept wings. By putting elevators or elevons on the tips of the wing, making an elevator deflection changes the aerodynamic center of the wing, rather than simply the lift coefficient. Thus, you have a pitch control system, by changing the moment generated about the C.G. Also, since the aerodynamic center is near the c.g., by sitting carefully, the aircraft can become statically neutral in pitch and fly with much less pilot input.
Yaw stability.... well it is a flying wing... but they have really big wing tip stabilizers on the model. It is possible to fly an aircraft without a rudder, but it's harder. If they try flying simulated aircraft without a rudder, it will approximate what they will experience in flight and adequately prepare them for the challenge.
- Hachiya is looking for a test pilot for the first version made this past year. Applications accepted up to March 15.
- The faq has another picture including something that looks more like an ordinary glider. To answer the question "What kind of project is this?" he writes, "The final goal of the 'Open Sky Project' is to produce a 'personal jet glider' that can be ridden by a single person (a girl up to 50kg)." Phase 2 which he is working on now includes consideration of ideas like those in the photo.
- He is being assisted in phase 2 by Aircraft OLYMPOS, looks like this guy (Mr. Shibe? Yobe? The name reads like "four doors"..heh) knows his planes.. and he says he thinks it is possible.
- The part about a girl being needed is basically a matter of image.. no reason can't be a guy. The point is to have someone as light and strong as possible, so 40kg plus or minus 5 kg, say 55kg max with full equipment. There is a training program for the pilot budgeted. And since he wouldn't put anyone on it without doing it himself first, he's in training now too. Sounds more ballsy and realistic than at first, no? I think we're back to "KEWL!"
- For phase 2 it will be called another name, not Moewe since if there did happen to be an accident Studio Ghibli (Nausicaa creators) would be inconvenienced. Also because when he looked it up it turns out that Mazda owns a trademark for a plane called Mehbeh. He wonders if they are actually thinking of building it?!?!
- Answering the question "Is this Open Source?" he says "Funny you should ask about that, the was originally developed as an Impac project but since it ended up not getting realized there I decided to do it by by myself. Even this phase I plan to make it open source to some degree, for example releasing diagrams and discussing problem points openly and so on. But as for completely open source hardware (?) I've given up on it. That is, when constructing the body someone should take responsibility for designing it, and when putting someone on it, obviously should take responsibility for that. And considering that kind of responsibility, I don't think it's possible to do that and try to get opinions about an under construction aircraft, or get advice on important parts of the project. However, I am looking for staff (link), so if anybody is interested they are welcome."
- Hey people this sounds like it is maybe real. And while he is an artist not an aeronautics engineer, he does have a good deal of clout and Nausicaa is a powerful image in Japan among the general public, in particular I think among engineers.
I'd like to mention the opinion of an older man who took me out for sushi tonight as I think it may be salient. We were talking about the way sushimaking is taught.. He said the difference between Japan and the U.S. is that Japan is a nation of craftsmen, and they don't teach just anyone what they know. In the U.S. everything is written in a manual, anyone (even someone who doesn't really *care*) can learn whatever is needed. In Japan the expert is not going to teach the young man the trade unless he has fire in his eyes.. Oh so you really *want* to know huh? And the student has to "steal" the information.
Well maybe this is a bit off and might have more to do with chefs than aircraft and open source, but I think it is safe to say at any rate whether this has anything to do with it or not, that a huge percentage of aircraft engineers in Japan have long dreamed of building something like Moewe, compared to their U.S. counterparts, and Hachiya does have a pretty strong way of grabbing people's attention with his designs. Anyway I'd like to hear if people think he is right and if open source aircraft is impossible. Seems it is possible but litigous..
By the way I just caught "BPS: Battle Programmer Shirashi" a (new?) Japanese cartoon. Whit
Oh yeah, well I've got a 4 digit user ID (8276) over there. Nya!
My other first post is car post.