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Stores Neglecting Old Videogame Packaging?
Thanks to GamerDad for its editorial discussing the poor condition of older console games sold by videogame stores. The writer notes: "Getting N64 games in any kind of reasonable [boxed] condition seems to be next to impossible... even more shocking is the state of their SNES and Genesis stock." He continues: "With SNES games, I can sort of understand that the deterioration of cardboard would leave you with just the cartridge and the manual eventually, but apparently the stores are now just throwing out the manual if the box is torn/useless. Even Genesis cartridges, sold in those hard shell boxes, are rarely found in their original packaging anymore. It's the systematic destruction of our gaming history." The piece concludes: "Is it really so hard to maintain a policy of keeping the product in similar condition to how it's traded in or maybe even stop accepting bare games altogether to give your customers more reason to take care of their games to retain value?" What's the solution, if any, to this problem?
The first thing I do when I get a game is throw out the cardboard packaging. Especially with computer games that have a single CD and MAYBE a registration card in them. I used to keep the boxes but when I moved I found I had 30 big software boxes that I had never touched again. Do you want my mint condition Willy Beamish case?
They have a hard time finding older (5+ years old) used videogames with intact original packaging with the documentation present!
As opposed to all the other old used products on the shelves with well-preserved packaging . . .
'I ain't a liar, baby, and I ain't proud I just want what I'm not allowed.' -- Violent Femmes, 36-24-36
Quite frankly I doubt anybody really cares. Sure it is nice to get games in good condition and in a box and all, but the games the article is talking about are unlikely to be sold brand new (most are no longer being produce), and if you are buying a second hand game then you often expect things like this.
It isn't like the stores are getting games in good condition and delibrately beating them up; they get the game in the condition it is traded in, and if people aren't willing to buy it in that condition it isn't like they are being forced to.
I certainly don't like the suggestion of stores not accepting bare games in order to teach those people a lesson - if someone is desperately looking for an old copy of a game, do you think they would prefer the choice of mint condition or not at all? I think once they get desperate enough they will buy the game sans box and manual, and be pleased with their purchase...
It will be interesting to see how sought after any well-preserved games will be in their original packaging. I can easily imagine they'll be our grandchildren's baseball cards.
Hello! it's used!
If I was his editor I'd slap him on the back of the head for wasting his time. I've rarely even at gamestop seen new games in their boxes except todays games that come in DVD cases.
I'll do him a favor though. I wont sell my copy of KOTOR that the cat scratched up the box. Maybe then he can rest in peace.
If you're going to save the packaging for every game, and no one else does, eventually that complete product will be worth money over and above the value of the game itself. The simple fact is that I don't really appreciate the retail package of a game, once I own that game, and I'd rather use the space for other things, just like every other normal person. The packaging was meant to be disposable. They made it out of paper for chrissakes. If you're different, then so be it. In 50 years when universities are offering "video game packages of the 20th century: a monological examination" as a class, you'll have saved cultural obscura and done your job as a pop-cultural historian. The world will thank you.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Along similar lines, it's not all that hard to track down a copy of Duck Hunt for the NES at the average gaming store. Just try to find a computer game from that era, though. Or even fifteen years later.
As is the case with so many collectibles these days, I'm afraid that eBay is our only hope.
DecafJedi
my weblog: apropos of something
I mostly agree with gamerdad on the article; the state of most preowned games out there is disgusting --- at EB.
Smaller stores tend to have much better preowneds, for instance. I think the culprit is that most 'casual' gamers don't take care of their games (because they ARE casual gamers -- gaming isnt their 'passion'.. similar to people who don't take care of their cars VS people who love their cars), and only know of EB as a place to buy and sell them (again, because they ARE casual gamers, and don't know too much about anything about them), and therefore are also more likely to trade them in (yet again, because they ARE casual gamers, and therefore don't care to keep them).
end result -- people who dont care about theit games trading many of them into the most popular places.
Also, just my feelings on the subject...
I feel that while it IS "nice" to keep them, i have no real problem with it when i lose a cardboard box. its only when i lose a plastic case (pc cd jewel case, XBOX dvd case) that i have a problem, because then the game doesn't feel complete. Manuals are my biggest pet peeve, partially because games of old used to have huge ones, and that used to be worth like 50% of the cost, and i guess that feeling hasn't worn off.
Newsie, Moderator, www.tauniverse.com
But many people with a sense of nostalgia will just want to play the old games, and some documentation would be nice. I recently had an urge to play Ultima IV again (which was released as freeware some years back). Luckily a little googling uncovered numerous Ultima documentation projects that archive complete documentation for all the Ultima games. Some had scans of the originals, others had them transcribed into doc or ascii.
Another case is when I go and rent the odd game and the docs always seem to be missing. Again, its google to the rescue. I'm a little more hesitant about this though, as unauthorized online copies of instructions for new games may promote piracy (or at least make it more convienent). But for a game that's way past it's peak sales window, getting instructions on the internet can be a godsend.
One final option is www.gamefaqs.com which have walkthroughs and FAQs for just about every game imaginable. They dont make the full documentation available, but the FAQs will often have basic gameplay instructions to at least get you started.
Scan the boxes and manuals, and upload them to the internet. There are already collections floating around. Sure it is illegal, but many things that shouldn't be are. This is one of them.
The problem is that, in most places, older systems aren't worth the trouble. The prices at EB are fixed so high that most people won't want to buy them, even though most are traded in without the box or instructions. Tetris for Nintendo (NES) is going for $39.99 CDN preowned, cart-only. No one's going to buy that, but that's what it's priced at.
The N64 games at my local EB are all the ones that no one wants - that's why they got traded in. No one buys them, they just use EB as a clearinghouse to get rid of the crap they wish they'd never bought.
No one cares about N64 games because there's no money in them.
The condition they're in really depends on who owned them before. I've seen a lot of games in mint condition (I saw a copy of Syphon Filter that looked like it had never been played), but I've seen a lot of games where people just don't care about what condition their games are in. Looking through the local EB's collection, most of the games without original cases are wrestling games. Shock.
The fact of the matter is, these are pre-owned games. They are used. They were played by someone else. No, they're not in excellent condition. That's why they're cheaper. Get over it.
--Dan
I still have all of my console game boxes: NES, GB, SNES, N64, even Virtual Boy. They're stored safely in the closet, unpacked and dusted from time to time. They're in great shape and some even still have the original marketing material that came packed with each game. I save them because they are a part of the game. A lot of time went into creating the cover art, the back-of-the-box text, and so forth. They just don't make box art like those anymore; everything's rendered and 3D and polished these days. Give me the classic 2D images of Mario with a turnip in his hand or the gold box with the Zelda logo on it any day.
The condition of preowned games also depends on the store you go to. The EB that I work at is full of gamers. If something comes in with the box/instructions, we keep it that way, regardless of policy. Unfortunately, not many people kept their old stuff in good condition until they traded it in. I doubt that 10-15 years ago, anyone thought that games like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger would be so widely sought after like they are now. Also ask the person there if they have anything stored on the back shelves. I know we keep alot of our mint condition older stock out of the bins for the sole purpose of them not getting damaged while they are out there.
It boggles my mind that the author's first theory on the lack of good mint old boxes is that the cardboard has fallen apart and that his second is that stores must be throwing them away. It seems to me to be FAR more likely that what's happening is that people like me DON'T KEEP OUR PACKAGING. I have a lot of games and a pretty small appartment. When I pack to move, my first thought isn't "oh man, I'd better work out how to fit all of this cardboard into the moving van".
I'm especially surprised, given that this article is coming from GamerDad. I mean if he's a dad, that means he has children, right? So maybe he's seen how children treat their toys? When I was a kid, I was pulling heads off of G.I. Joes. Do you think I was treating the packaging in a respectful manner?
From my point of view (I like games, not boxes) the only real problem that he raises in the entire article is that sometimes the games are missing the manual. Here are some solutions:
1) Don't worry about it, most games have ingame tutorials and most manuals were pretty useless. You can learn how to play by experimenting with the game.
2) Check out sites like GameFAQs. Many of the best written FAQs have instructions on how to play the game in the introductions.
3) Pay extra for games with manual (and box if you really want it). Then stores can pay kids selling games extra for their used games with manual (and box) and there will be incentive for them to take care of the product.
I have a lot of opinions about Cyborgs and Architects
Seems to me that most people never think about the work that goes into EVERY aspect of game production. I've box three TV boxes filled with old NES, SNES, N64, etc game boxes. Not the games, just the manuals and boxes. Even the Nintendo Power subscription cards... minus one or two when I actually subscribed as a kid. With the exception of the original MegaMan, a lot of good work goes into most game's box art. It is absolutely a part of the product.
With SNES games, I can sort of understand that the deterioration of cardboard would leave you with just the cartridge and the manual eventually, but apparently the stores are now just throwing out the manual if the box is torn/useless. Even Genesis cartridges, sold in those hard shell boxes, are rarely found in their original packaging anymore. It's the systematic destruction of our gaming history."
SNES, Genesis, and N64 (mentioned earlier) have about as much to do with "gaming history" as Chevy Chevettes have to do with automotive history. The oldest among them, the Sega Genesis, came out in 1989 with a Motorola 68000 CPU. The SNES came out in 1991 while the N64 came out in 1996!
If you want real video gaming history worth saving, then look to the Magnavox Odyssey, released in 1972 as the first home video game. Then there is the Fairchild Channel F, which was released in 1976 and the first video game system to use cartridges. In 1977, the wildly successful Atari 2600 was released, Atari's first cartridge-based video game console. And let's not forget the Vectrex of 1982, the first and only home video game using vector graphics which it displayed on its own monitor.
Video gaming history isn't about a bunch of johnny-come-lately Japanese executives who sought to get rich with slickly packaged, mass market products. It's about pioneers like Ralph Baer, who, in 1967 prototyped what would become the Magnavox Odyssey. It's about visionaries wile Nolan Bushnell who founded Atari and conceived Pong in 1976.
If someone told Funcoland which is now Gamestop they could sell Zelda for 20x the value with a mint box, they still wouldn't do it.
These stores pay rent per square feet. There aren't enough people paying collector's price to cover the rent loses. I don't think even in 10-20 years.
You're free to maintain a history of video gaming, with full boxes and perfect manuals and stuff. But I think you'll agree that it's not in the game store's economic interests to turn their already cramped space into a museum..
Buy 'em for a dime apiece, stick each one in its own Zip-loc bag, then put 'em away for 20 years. At the end of that time, you ought to be able to sell them for a whole quarter!
I've kept all of the boxes the games came in in another box, a "box of boxes" per se. Maybe I'm an abnormal person, but I tend to take care of my stuff and I could repackage my games and give them to you in a state equivalent to the day I bought it (minus the shrink wrap of course). I guess if people just took better care of their stuff this problem wouldn't exist.
I run a used games shop, we do about 25grand a month. NES and SNES games are rarely seen in a box, and when they are, we leave them that way. Genesis games, and don't ask me why, don't sell in the clamshell...I have pondered this fact for days at a time, it makes no sense. The moment I take them out of the clamshell, they sell. I just don't get it, I've always thought of the Genesis cases as actually being useful but I guess most people just don't care for them.
Atari rarely has the box, Intellivision often does have the box (go figure)...NES games don't as I said above, but they also rarely have the original plastic slip cases they came in either.
It's a mystery to be sure.
This article isn't about CONSOLE history, but rather VIDEO GAME history. Classics like Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy...these games ARE about video gaming history. Yeah, the systems were mass produced for the home, but that doesn't make them worse. The NES, SNES, Genesis, they aren't all that old, but that doesn't mean they still aren't integral parts to video gaming history. I'd love to see where we would be today without these systems. Not to mention that in 30 years, these systems WILL be a huge part of video gaming history. I'll reiterate, just because they are fairly recent, that doesn't make them anyless important to history.
This is somewhat tongue in cheek, so don't flame me off hand. But it's still interesting.
Ever think about what is REALLY killing the entertainment industries? Is it organized counterfitting? Or casual copying? Or file sharing?
Why doesn't anybody ever think of the used market as the real downfall of the entertainment industry? This is about used video games, most of which you can't get in stores anyway...but strech this out to music or movies. How many used music/movie stores are around where you live? How much business do they do? Chances are they do just as much, or maybe even more business than a normal record store.
Why is nobody talking about this? Why doesn't the RIAA do advertisements about how used sales take food out of the mouths of artists (which is MORE true than for P2P file sharing). Sure, it's legal. But the question is, is it ethical? How ethical is it to make money off of somebody elses's work..without them even getting a whiff of it?
Furthermore, this is more competition for the entertainment dollar. Spreading things even thinner.
Now, myself I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, I have a lot of pre-owned DVDs from my local movie store (buy 2 get 2 free builds your collection pretty fast). But at the same time, it really HAS to be affecting their real numbers. More-so than anything else really.
Again. Why isn't anybody talking about this?
the condition of that pilot wings 64 box i got from some ebay mass reseller.
the crinckles and dents were impressed upon the very depths of my soul, as if someone had taken all my childhood memories and wiped their ass with them.
Save your self-righteous rants for somewhere else.
When does something become history? In 5 years, will the SNES be part of history? How about 10? Surely at least in another 20 years, you'd have to classify the Genesis and SNES as 'history.'
Now, my point: what the hell is wrong with starting to preserve it *now*, before it's gone? There are some very, very good games on all of those systems. It'd be a shame to lose bits and pieces of them forever.
Similarly, as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, baseball cards were just little pieces of cardboard too. I certainly don't expect the packaging from video games to appreciate in value as much as a Joe Namath card, maybe there's still some reason to hang onto this stuff while it's still *possible* to hang onto it.
You're probably too old to appreciate all of videogame history, anyway. I consider myself lucky to have gotten into video gaming when I did -- old enough to appreciate the real classics, young enough that I'm not afraid of new things. (sorry, cheap shot)
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
I've heard reports of these older used games making up 5-10% of a store's sales. This may seem small...but think about how little the stores give when you trade in these games. The relative profit on a $3 Genesis game is far higher than for a $20 Game Boy Advance game.
Why, then, are they getting rid of these games? One of the biggest reasons is space. These cartridge games take up a fair amount of room that newer CD-based games just don't. If they don't have enough room for the actual games, where the heck would they put the boxes? It's far easier for the stores to just toss the packaging. Depressing, but that's the way it is...
This one still puzzles me - the Dreamcast isn't that old, and I know there's still demand for DC games. Oh well...
Goo goo g'joob.
I can't speak for all stores and much of this has already been touched upon by everyone else, but I can't seem to shut up so...
In the case of older games (which includes N64 titles - maybe you've lost track of time, but the system launched well over 5 years ago), they don't get traded in with the boxes and the instructions to begin with. In fact, the cart themselves often times look like the owner stored them in a ditch in their backyard - literally. Dirt caked, labels peeled, etc. It's ridiculous the condition of the games I see float through my store, both old and new generation titles.
Another issue is space, as some have already pointed out. As it is, there's hardly any room to keep loose cartridges on the sales floor, much less boxes two to three times their size. A lot of people don't realize this, but most stores don't have some vast amount of storage space off the sales floor to hold all of this stuff. For instance, used Game Boy Advance games often DO arrive in their original packaging, manuals and all. Unfortunately, in my store in particular, there is simply no room to store these things. I can't deny that it sucks for the customer, particularly collectors. But it's not in my store's best interest to keep every box and manual that gets traded in or sold to us.
On the rare occasion that a mint condition NES/SNES/GENESIS game does come through, we do indeed keep the box and manual, but this is rare. For instance, a mint copy of Super Metroid rolled into town and it was a reason to celebrate indeed.
Finally, as far as him touching on the rumor of some places not taking back games/consoles/accessories for Dreamcast and older games...my store in particular stopped taking those games back as of today, actually. Other stores will carry them, but I'd expect to see them phased out in the near future. So it looks like Ebay and smaller, more specialized shops for that kind of thing.
"Is it really so hard to maintain a policy of keeping the product in similar condition to how it's traded in or maybe even stop accepting bare games altogether to give your customers more reason to take care of their games to retain value?"
Having worked at an EB for three years, I'll go ahead and state the obvious. Generally, the people who take care of games keep them. Those who don't tend to trade them in relatively early in the lifespan of the game. What happens is something of a trickle-down effect; as games drop in price, those who couldn't afford to buy them in the first place (kids, or families who don't put as much financial priority on video games) end up buying them. Lather, rinse, repeat.
With regards to game stores taking care of them, I can only speak for the store I work at. I've already mentioned that the people who take care of these games don't trade them in or already have. That means the conditions of the games these stores get is usually fairly subpar. I remember a few times when we would get an older system and games in immaculate condition. Dave isn't finding those because the game collectors, who would visit our store at least once or twice a week, bought those first. What's more is that if there are two copies of Starfox 64 on the shelf, and one is in top condition and the other is not, which is more likely to go first since they're under the same SKU?
Frankly, there's a lot of extremely obvious reasons why these games are not in the best of shape, some of which I'd provided. Why Dave didn't think this through before he wrote his article is beyond me. Maybe he thinks, quite mistakingly, that Steve Morgan of EB or some member of the gaming store echlon will read his article and suddenly agree with him. But if you're making the same amount of profit whether they are in good condition or poor condition (and these stores do), then why change the behavior? Moreover, the people who take care of games usually know they can get a heck of a lot more than $0.50 from EB for a mint condition game.
Your best bet, Dave, is to buy off of eBay and inevitably pay more for a game that is in mint condition. Surprise: you pay for what you get for. What's probably discouraging for Dave, though, is that if he hasn't thought of the obvious reasons why this has occured, he's probably not thought ahead to what's going to happen when the disc generation hits the same age that cartridges are now. Keepem while you gotem.
Which more or less defines Nintendo under Hiroshi Yamauchi.
On the other hand, while the systems themselves are not necessarily of extremely historical value, there are (of course) certain games from those systems that DO justify their historical value. For example: The original Zelda (arguably) pioneered (and in many ways remains) a completely different type of adventure game. Some games have come close, but no games (until recently) seriously compared with the graphical based "slasher" adventure of Zelda. Likewise with Metroid, which might be considered the first third-person "shooter" game. Not to mention Tetris, which pretty much single-handedly revived the idea of puzzle games. I don't mean to necessarily justify Nintendo as the be-all-and-end-all of video game history... Merely that they do have some claim to fame, if only thanks primarily to Miyamoto's early days, and one Alexei Pajitnov. (On the other hand, while I am familiar with the more popular arcade and Atari games, I probably would not doubt that there are a few that fit the bill replacing the innovation of these few...)
Perhaps the only Nintendo system to outright deserve historical fame (if perhaps begrudgingly) might be the NES, if only for the fact that it revived the otherwise dying American video game industry (That doesn't mean Super Mario Brothers is at all historically innovative, except perhaps in passing). I do agree however, that the SNES was probably less innovative than might otherwise be expected. The NES and the games that it brought to the table were arguably more innovative (if not necessarily more polished and refined) then Nintendo's more recent offerings.
Feel free to disagree with my post, however, as I'm quite open to a discussion...
In 100% of situations, I prefer to have the data on my computer where it takes zero cubic space, than in a box which takes up much-needed space. All this stuff is on the internet. And when I view the downloaded box art, it would look alot nicer on my 36" television (primary monitor) than it on a 5" cardboard piece-o-trash box.
Paper is obsolete.
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com