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Mind Over Machine
broKenfoLd writes "Monkeys moving robotic arms by manipulating a cursor on a computer screen, simply by thinking about it? Mice who cause their water tube to dispense some refreshing H2O just by wishing it? Signal processing and decoding has long been a dream of Matrix fans and lazy system administrators for years, and science is amazingly keeping up! Popular Science's Carl Zimmer has written a fascinating piece documenting recent progress in decoding brain signals and interpreting commands issued from thoughts alone. If you heard a single violin playing Beethoven's 5th, you would be able to tell what piece of music was being played even though the rest of the orchestra was not heard. In the same way, by monitoring a relatively few neurons, computers can recognize patterns and allow programming based on these patterns to say, know if a mouse is thinking about pushing his water lever.
You can pass the time waiting for Matrix-style video games and motionless system adminstration/utilization by reading the full article."
But can it be used for channel surfing. That's the ultimate goal.
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Saw this on HDNet... very very very cool..
I esp like the lady with the leads out of both sides of the back of her head....
She looked very Borg-Like.
Can you imagine what might happen when a "hottie" walks though the office?
I call it sleeping.
My water tube can dispense a refreshing H20-based substance just by wishing.
...this is some neat shit.
:)
Personally, I find it facinating that the brain can so readily adapt to adding and removing hardware ( limbs ), but reading about it is even cooler.
What other computer do you know can learn how to use foriegn devices without a driver disk?
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
the best of these kind of devices (devloped in nasa labs) can only do 95% accuracy. sure that might be fine for say playing a video game(unless its fast pace), but if you tried to walk with 95% accuracy, you'd be the but of more jokes then the "how do you get bob dole out of a tree, wave to him" jokes.
but over all its really cool that they are even able to do this at all.
"Mice who cause their water tube to dispense some refreshing H2O just by wishing it?"
Uncanny! Just this morning I caused by "water tube" to dispense liquid just by wishing it too!
It would be interesting to have a cell-phone implant. You can call your friends and relatives, and always get them and know what they are thinking. And MAN, it would get annoying!
How about living in a way that our bodies were actually meant to. Exercising, working with our bodies, and communicating in person. Eventually we will just be sitting at home, in a lazy-boy with our brains plugged in to a network and all work from home. But, that would suck!
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
And I ran him over with my SCV?
"I didn't run him over!"
"Did you THINK about running him over?"
*long pause*
I didn't run him over!
I mean, the rat can think about water, and get some water. But a rat's mind is way simpler.
Have you ever thought about suicide? Now imagine if when you thought about it a machine would come and kill you. Also I don't know about you, but I can't control my mind completely, sometimes I have thoughts that are completely unrelated with what I am doing... I really don't think I could trust a machine to make my thoughts come true, I'm sure in the future machines will be able to interpret the signals in your brain with a 99% precision, I just can't trust my own mind.
If we can control the machines, can someone else come back through the machine an control me??? Could I be hacked??? Would I have to have a firewall in my head???
Evolution or ID?
Brain-Computer Interfaces for Communication and Control at the society for neuroscience annual meeting. There are already paralyzed people using this type of technology (electrode and even EEG(!)) on an experimental basis.
But that would require thinking, and that hurts :(
Popular Science has always been crazy as hell science. I am still wating for my flying car and hotel room on Mars that was predicted in the magazine when I read in in junior high in the 70's.
Popular Science, ya gotta luv'em. I just wish the track record was a bit better, after reading about the nextgen dirigibles off and on for years I'm just a bit disapointed, that sounded like so much fun. Probe in my head? Less so.
;-) but still...
Mod me down, off topic troll
This could have a potentially incredible impact on impaired and disabled people. Imagine if Stephen Hawking would be able to work at the same speed his mind seems to function at? However, what about Mind through Machine over Mind? Put your helmet on, jack in, and remote control that fish - imagine the long-time deep-sea discoveries we could make - maybe even find a live Architeuthis?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
why not anticipatory programming
THEN x = 3
IF x == uninitializedValue
Table-ized A.I.
This does not answer how brain works at all :-) As a motor control neuroscientist by trade, I can tell that finding out what the brain actually doing has little to do with these neat things.
:-)
This is not to say that it's not important -- all kinds of prosthetic devices can be made to help people with disabled limbs or other parts of the motor control system -- so it's a great benefit to those people. The important thing is that these devices are still controlled by the human brain, and nobody has a good idea how.
The fact is, you can probably hook up whatever device to whatever portion of the brain (e.g. an artificial arm to you toenail brain area) and after some practice the subject will learn now to move it. So when they say "we don't see the brain as a mysterious organ anymore" they are telling you a bold-face lie.
The mystery would be demonstrated to be solved when we can build a computer with massively parallel and slow (up to 1kHz) elements that can match human performance in tasks like tracking, reaching, as well as learning those tasks.
So far, all the beatiful performance of the cool gadgets is accomplished by super-fast feedback and super-fast computing elements. Our neurons are ways slower, but they do much better. Therefore, the whole essense and mystery of the brain is how to connect 10^10 shitty elements into a great learnable machine. Algorythms and parallelism are still the mystery of the brain, even if the popular science magazines claim otherwise
I'd like to see a simple switch based on brain activity that would toggle on during sexual thought/arousal and toggle off in the absence of that.
Jesus sweet fucking christ I sure as hell don't want to see that! What the hell are you thinking?
Children could then be taught that if somebody's "face button" is glowing when that person is asking them to [get in the car|go play with a cute pet|have some candy|etc.], to run and get help.
Why don't we just teach children that when a "person is asking them to [get in the car|go play with a cute pet|have some candy|etc.], to run and get help" without the face-button shit?
GMD
watch this
Then, before you know it, you've thought, "\rm -r *"
Okay, I saw something like this (minus the thought part) happen in real life once upon a time. A friend and I were just talking about people accidentally typing "\rm -r *" in the lab when suddenly, someone using the Sun boxes yelled "oh shit!" because he absentmindedly typed what we said.
They talk about using this for people with disabilities. This would be great for sure but ... interpret though.
;-)
they say in the article that they need to "train" the computer beforehand (no pun intended)
before it can
My question, which was not answered in the article, is: Are every brain emmitting the same signals for the same action
or do they need to "train" the program for every new user (monkey)? I would think that every individual have a somewhat
unique "brain signature" and if it is the case, how can a totally impaired person train a computer to use an artificial arm or
leg or whatever if anyway he isn't able to move a "joystick"?
Can the computer associated anything as an input to compare with the brain activity?
Could (let's say ) S. Hawking program the system by blowing in a tube harder or smoother for example?
Am I clear?
I'd rather be sailing...
But a rat's mind is way simpler.
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I'm sure most coders out there have dreamed of this ability for years. No more clunky keyboard interface to slow you down.
Typos would be a thing of the past. Imagine scanning though some source and noticing that you assigned 100 to a var rather than 10, before you can even refocus your eye on the line the value has been changed.
Grep would be a thing of the past! Need to change all the instances of a function name? Think it and its done.
I want to be the lawnmower man!
Apple free since 1990!
computers can recognize patterns and allow programming based on these patterns to say, know if a mouse is thinking about pushing his water lever. ...
what would happen to the mouse if, at long term, she knows that by thinking about pushing the lever she don't have to push that lever anymore, the computer can't find that previous pattern because the mice have forgotten the use of the lever. thus reprogramming is re-required. seems like an infinite loop
Doh !
What might be more useful, and even MORE controversial and ethically complex, is developing an implant that would suppress those thoughts before the offender has a chance to act on them at all.
The real exciting part isn't about the machine learning what the brain is doing, but rather the brain learning how the machine works. Near the end of the article, he talks about a cluster of neurons that grew in the monkey brains after the implants, and would fire only when the implants were active. The monkey's brain, in effect, sensed a new presence and adapted to it within minutes of its arrival.
If you've ever tried learning an activity that instinctive reflexes like skateboarding or ice skating or even playing the piano, you realize that no matter how much instruction someone gives you, at some point you feel like once you've done it enough, you just "get it". It's the whole muscle memory thing, how your brain encounters something new and just adapts, learning exactly which neurons to fire at the right moments to get the desired affect. Seeing neuron's grow and cluster especially for the robot arm is indicative that the monkey's brain can assimilate the arm and treat it as a natural extension as opposed to a external tool with an awkward interface. In geekspeak, it's like a kernel that, on detecting a new device, can probe it, learn the API, and build its own device driver automatically, without ever knowing anything other than that it's something on the other end of a bus.
Extending that line of thought, who's to say that if the signal processing and classification algorithms advanced far enough to classify even our thoughts, our brains wouldn't be able to instinctively learn how the mind-readers worked and retaliate in return?
Pleeeeeeease don't let MS get their hands on this one, mister!
This was the main theme of A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess.
In it, a violent young man is subjected to a psychological process that renders him unable to commit violent acts. Undergoing it is one of the conditions for his release from prison.
One of the main questions posed by the book (or film) is whether someone who is forced to be good can be considered to be good or if they're the same person as before, just in an enternal prison. It's a disturbing idea when dwelled upon - what happened to progress, development and redemption?
Equally disturbing is the the side-effects of this operation on the character. Aside from accidentally conditioning him to despise the music of Beethoven which he'd formerly adored, there is a horrible scene where he is picked up by two of his former friends and almost killed now that he is incapable of defending himself.
I am sure that there are people who think such control over others would be wonderful. In fact, it would render people little more than robots living according to their masters' (the police/judge's) ideals of correct behaviour. At that point you might as well just kill the people.
I also can't help thinking of the main characters last words in the film of 'Clockwork Orange.'
"I was cured alright."
At that point, the audience's sympathies are with him.We've lived through the mind-altering experience ourselves and we want to be free.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
I can't waid two get this of my home computer. I hoop is works is goat as me speak recondition program!
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Does the water come when mice are thinking they want water...OR
have they learned that every time they think about death/sex/food the water comes?
Will code a sig generator for food
What this really opens up is the possibility of training animals to operate machinery. Imagine taking an aquatic animal (such as a dolphin) and using it (or its brain) as the central component in a spaceship autopilot.
By stimulating various parts of the brain (including pleasure centres), one could train it to respond to your input in the way you want - it already has the hardware to deal with three dimensional maneuvering, timing and calculating trajectories and intercepts.
This was used in a novel called Space, in which GM Squid controlled a space probe. In the novel, the squid became smart enough to do a runner with it.I would look up the author's name for you all, but try typing "Science Fiction" and "Space" into Google and see what happens
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
The same people who brought you "Nuclear, sorry, Nucular Cars," "Flying Cars," and what ever else doesn't require much imagination and even less knowledge of math and physics.
Entreprenurial posers.
Still it sells magazines.
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It's not that hard
Then what's the point? Especially when married?
Infuriate left and right
"motionless system adminstration"
Yip.
What about the thoughts you "really" don't need everyone else to know hear though. Somehow it needs to determine what to transmit and what not to. Even if it is controlled by you thinking, 'say this or that', what if you're thinking of saying it but don't really want to. This is getting confusing. You could imagine thinking about talking and having it projected into a room 2,000 miles away," says Craig Henriquez. "I don't see that that will be a problem. It's very, very possible."
Imagine going head-to-head (hehe) with someone in a game where you both put on your "mind caps" and you battle it out... and the winner is simply the guy who can think the fastest. Forget moving a goofy little thumbstick around and pressing buttons. Imagine the feeling of playing some FPS game and moving around in the game just by sheer willpower. Wow. With good enough graphics, you could probably forget that it's a game pretty easily.
Cool, but a little scary, too.