Novell Headed To Linux Enterprise Desktop In Asia

More open source news for various Asian countries by tcopeland · 2004-03-01 08:52 · Score: 5, Informative

...can be found at AsiaOSC.

They've got good info on each country - i.e., here's the page on Malaysia. They also serve as a mirror for Open Office, various BSDs, multiple RedHat releases, and so forth, so they're doing more than just gathering news. No banner ads, either.

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The Army reading list

Yeah, well... by bad+enema · 2004-03-01 08:52 · Score: 5, Funny

This is only because they couldn't get the paper clip to speak Chinese.

Re:Yeah, well... by PCM2 · 2004-03-01 09:31 · Score: 4, Informative

Of course you guys are trying to be funny, but it may be significant to note that both Hong Kong and Malaysia are countries where a lot of computing is liable to be done either in English or, at the very least, in a Roman character set.

English is the second official language of Hong Kong.

The official language of Malaysia is Bahasu Malaysia -- not "Chinese" -- and in written form it generally uses Roman characters.

I'd be interested to see what these desktops look like, but I'm betting Asian language support probably wasn't one of Novell's big motivating factors.

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Breakfast served all day!
Re:Yeah, well... by PCM2 · 2004-03-01 17:02 · Score: 2, Informative

Oh yeah, and before you respond with, "But written Mandarin and Cantonese are the same," even that is not necessarily true.
From the article:
During the Cultural Revolution, Chinese characters were simplified so that they would be easier to learn and take less time to write. Because Hong Kong was still a British colony at that time, the writing system in Hong Kong remained intact, as it did in Taiwan because the Nationalists did not adopt the system from the Communists. So not only do Hong Kong children have to learn the traditional characters, they also have to learn the written language with no phonetic guide. Moreover, the written language does not correspond to their spoken Cantonese. And most of them are also learning English at the same time.
Recently, Cantonese speakers in Hong Kong have done something that no other Chinese dialect speaker has done. They have chosen to write out their spoken Cantonese, which is like writing in Ebonics but without the stigmatization because Cantonese is the dominant language in Hong Kong. In the process, many words that do not exist in Bai-hua were created specifically for written Cantonese. And many of the words in Bai-hua are used differently in this written language. Written Cantonese is very colloquial, full of slang and idiomatic speech. In short, it is utterly incomprehensible to Mandarin speakers, and speakers of other Chinese dialects, even though it is written with Chinese characters.

I leave it to somebody else to say what usage is actually accepted in Hong Kong schools, businesses, etc.

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Breakfast served all day!

More to embrace than meets the eye by millahtime · 2004-03-01 08:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

The more that an open desktop is embraced the more that open standards are embraced stopping big companies like M$ from having closed standards.

Can't do business if you can't share information.

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Evolution or ID?

Re:More to embrace than meets the eye by PacoTaco · 2004-03-01 09:24 · Score: 4, Funny

Thank you for posting Slashdot standard comment #14. As always, this greatly enhanced the discussion of [Novell Headed To Linux Enterprise Desktop In Asia]. We hope you continue to make similar contributions in the future.
-The Management
Re:More to embrace than meets the eye by the_mad_poster · 2004-03-01 09:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm sitting here with a mingled Office XP / 97 environment because of the huge compatibility problems between Access 97 and 2000. Since when does Microsoft give a flying frip about sharing information between its own products, much less anyone else's? Do you really think they'll give a damn even if they lose market dominance?

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Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Re:More to embrace than meets the eye by flacco · 2004-03-01 13:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

Since when does Microsoft give a flying frip about sharing information between its own products
Yes, my friend, we have all asked ourselves that question at one point or another - since when, indeed, does Microsoft give a flying frip?
a question for the ages.

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pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.

Partnering for a domestic content rating? by G4from128k · 2004-03-01 08:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

This raises the possibilty that Novell will partner with some Chinese software firm in order to pass China's impending domestic software content laws. I'm sure that the Chinese government would give Novell a nice domestic content seal of approval if Novell brings some IP and perhaps $$$ to the Chinese table.

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Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.

Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? by coupland · 2004-03-01 09:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

Surely you're joking right? You're not actually contending that Novell has the business volume and financial muscle to sweeten the pot for a nation that boasts a population of 1.3 billion? China doesn't need Novell, their economic policy is quite simple: "We have such an enormous population that we can afford to have exclusionary trade policies and it won't hurt us." Whether this is true or not isn't something I care to debate, but the fact of the matter is they don't want to fill the coffers of *any* North American businesses. Be it Microsoft or Novell.
Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? by Vancorps · 2004-03-01 09:17 · Score: 5, Informative

Sorry but you're plain and simply wrong. Run on over to Novell's website and look at their press releases. Novell has been involved in creating the whole chinese infrastucture. Cisco and Novell have been making massive amounts of profits in China in the last few years which is what essentially has been keeping Novell alive, same goes for Cisco for that matter. Remember not long ago Cisco execs reduced their salaries to $1 to same 10,000 jobs at Cisco, they are back to full salary now and Cisco is hiring new people. China is not as nieve as you take it for. They understand that duplication of efforts to achieve the same result is wasteful.
That doesn't mean they won't build their own desktop where there is wiggle room for error. When it comes to servers China will stick with the products that have a reputation such as Netware and Linux and shy away from tarnished companies such as Microsoft and Sco.
Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? by coupland · 2004-03-01 09:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

Run on over to Novell's website and look at their press releases. Novell has been involved in creating the whole chinese infrastucture

I ask this with all respect and seriousness: "Are you on dope?" No, what I mean is that I took your comment on good faith and went to look at the Novell web page. The only thing on the Press Releases web page is the press release from today, March 1st. And there's nothing on the Corporate Press Releases page even remotely related to China. Under International Press Releases there isn't even a section for China. Did you think I'd be too lazy to check their web site on your suggestion?

Now as for being wrong, I'm not. China is well aware that their infrastructure is based on Cisco hardware and Intel-based PCs and Microsoft software. That's why you see things like the Dragon chip and threats of domestic software quotas. China wants to transition their population from importing these technologies from western companies and develop them locally. Whether it be Novell or Microsoft, China doesn't want to import all their technology from a potentially hostile nation. You know, a nation with a pre-emptive strike policy?

And furthermore, how can anyone with a straight face say that Novell can sweeten the deal for the Chinese government by offering IP? We're talking Linux on the desktop here, what IP does Novell control that has relevance to Linux on the desktop???
Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? by Vancorps · 2004-03-01 09:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

China and Novell
I apologize for the crappiness of the press room. It was once a far more intelligently designed place to gather information. But as you can see there is plenty of news on Novell's site relating to China and their rapid adoption of Novell services.
As for Novell sweetening the deal, I never said that. As for Linux on the desktop, take a look at Both E-Directory and Zenworks. Both have very direct impacts on the desktop both Linux based and Windows based.
As for China dealing with U.S. companies; Do you honestly think China is of the mind that U.S. companies act like the U.S. government? Seriously, they don't give a ten shakes about Bush's foreign policy, China actually has very little to fear from Bush as he knows all his corporate interests want decent relations with China. If they did care about that policy why would they have and still implement Cisco products? Why would they be importing our technology both legally and semi-legally?

Novell on the move by KingDaveRa · 2004-03-01 08:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think this is Novell's biggest Linux move since buying SuSE, seemingly putting some weight behind it. I'd be interested to see how they fare out in the asian countries.

China will love them, what with the red colour scheme and all...

I was wondering when Novell would get into by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-01 08:56 · Score: 5, Interesting

the market. They have the software, the knowhow, and the capital. Their reputation, although a bit outdated, is a bit of a boon as well.

Any Novell execs listening, open-source Openexchange and break the demon's back!

East great place to start by millahtime · 2004-03-01 08:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

The east is a great place to start. They are embracing technology over there greatly. The newest cell phones and other technology are going on there. Plus the east (including china and india) has 1/3 of the worlds population. Pretty smart place to start.

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Evolution or ID?

Asian Markets... by SisyphusShrugged · 2004-03-01 08:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

Asian Markets work very much off of a piracy basis for their software, the large amount of software not being paid for or used within the context of a western office environment.

This appears to me to be another part of the trend of companies salivating over the numbers...(Ooohh, 500 Quadrillion-Billion-Monillion people in China, thats a lot more than America!)

--
Post apocalyptic gaming goodness

Re:Asian Markets... by RailGunner · 2004-03-01 09:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

And that piracy is a big reason why Linux can work so well in the Far East. When you have a culture, or class of people, that are used to just pirating what they want, then it's a pretty easy sell to say - instead of dropping a few bucks on a pirated OS that you really can't verify whether or not it's been tampered with, here take this free, open source OS.
Now, once the market in Asia is set up that it predominantly runs Linux - I think there will be a huge market that opens up for custom software for Linux, that could be a boon to the US economy - selling custom code and service to the large economies of Asia.
And since Linux is free, and represents Freedom, maybe the people there will realize how great freedom is and want more of it.. putting pressure on the tinhorn communist dictators that run the region.
Exporting freedom and capitalism never hurts...
Re:Asian Markets... by Vancorps · 2004-03-01 09:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

You're expecting a bit much from a linux introduction. I'll assume you are just dreaming though. The fact is most of the pirated software isn't tampered with, it works and many are quite happy with it since they know how to use it. The problem is still in making the OS intuitive.
Say what you will about Windows but it is intuitive. My professor who now lives in China teaches children that have never even seen a computer. He sits them down in front of MS Word and they go off writing quite well. They even manage to find other features like clipart and can create presentations. Obviously it takes some time but it only takes some finger pointing for the kid to get to where he wants, I'd say thats pretty simple.
That said Linux most definitely has a place as it represents a path to international legitimacy. A company running Linux will find it much easier to get contracts from other countries than a company known for running pirated software.
I'd say all the tech exposure is just plain great. Pretty much no matter what OS they end up running U.S. and European countries will have a chance to sell products to a much larger market.
Re:Asian Markets... by warrior_on_the_edge_ · 2004-03-01 10:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

Say what you will about Windows but it is intuitive

There is NOTHING intuitive about current input devices and methods.

What you MEAN is:

"It's like the previous version"
Re:Asian Markets... by Jason+Earl · 2004-03-01 11:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

The problem is that most of these Asian countries that are heavily into piracy have to show the WTO that they are "making an effort" to curb software piracy. The easiest way to do this is to cut down on the prevalence of software piracy by government agencies. If the governments themselves can show that they no longer pirate software then that goes a long way towards keeping the company out of trouble with the WTO.
Microsoft thought that these government agencies would cut down on software piracy by purchasing Microsoft software. However, these countries can't really afford to license their pirated software, and so they are looking at using Free Software instead.
Since the governments of these countries own the bulk of the computer resources this is a very big deal. As these economies grow and computers spread computer users will find that they will need to use Linux and Free Software to be compatible with the government software.

Americas and Europe next? by nycsubway · 2004-03-01 09:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'd love to see that here. I think a Linux desktop would make a lot of people happy, the users for having linux and the managers for saving money. Maybe if it takes off there, Novell and others will try it elsewhere.

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http://github.com/gbook/nidb

The War Is Over by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-01 09:09 · Score: 5, Interesting

I've been following the rise of Linux for the some time now. I don't run it, I run OS X and don't give a damn about the GPL.

However, all the MS people I talk to have had a dramatic change of heart with the recent annoucements like this one. Nothing they've said explicitly, but the tone has changed from denial to they are finally coming to terms with the fact that Linux 'will' take over at some point. It's now only a question of how fast.

The US will probably lag behind the rest of the world, but it's only a matter of time now.

Re:The War Is Over by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-01 09:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

If you have been following the news over the past few months you'll see:

* MS execs are starting to warn about the growth of the company slowing
* The 'Linux discount' is spreading like mad across the globe
* Longhorn is getting pushed farther back
* The virus/security situation actually seems to be getting worse every week
* MS has nothing to replace their desktop and monopoly revenues
* MS shareholders are getting pissed at not getting much bigger dividends
* They've lost the server war
* MS execs have been doing nothing but selling for the past three years
* The possiblity of insane product liablility class action lawsuits are rising for the virus/security nightmare over the past ten years

I could go on all day.

There wasn't anyone particular point, but somewhere in the last six months the entire computing world, minus MS and SCO, collectively went "Fuck it, I'm switching to Linux"

No, MS isn't unfortuenately going to just dissapear tomorrow, but the amazing thing about the growth of Linux is not the velocity, but the acceleration.
Re:The War Is Over by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-01 11:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

A lot of hardware comes from the Pacific Rim. The more we see Linux/GPL in Asia, the better driver support. Most laptops and portable devices are manufactured there. It wont be long before we see compatibility originate with Linux before we see it with Windows/Mac. Why doesn't Apple show more interest in Asia? Wouldn't it be great to see more Asia-friendly Apple products. The Japanese would be a great market since they define "cool" for most of that region. Apple could do really well if they could get past the American-centric image they currently sport.

Apps for Linux desktop by prostoalex · 2004-03-01 09:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

Here's the list of the best-selling software titles for 2003 (by quantity sold, not dollars fetched):
1. TurboTax 2002 Deluxe
2. Norton Antivirus 2003
3. Turbo Tax 2002
4. Norton Antivirus 2004
5. TurboTax 2002 Multi State 45
6. Taxcut 2002 Deluxe Block
7. Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Upgrade
8. Microsoft Office XP Student and Teacher Edition
9. Taxcut 2002 State Block
10. Norton Internet Security 2003

You can see that tax software is huge thing for a bunch of people to have on their desktop. Office suite is another. Internet security (not just antivirus, but user-friendly firewall, port manager and other utilities).

Office is pretty much covered with OpenOffice, so that's done. As for Internet security tools, I am not sure which ones exist for the end user, but perhaps industry could come up with some.

Tax software. Is there a good tax package for Linux, allowing those millions of accountants, small business owners and middle-class Joe's like you and me file their taxes?

Out of free (of charge) software that is getting huge market share of desktop, what would the Linux equivalent of:
- Kazaa
- Real Player
- ICQ/AIM (ok, Gaim is a good alternative)

Re:Apps for Linux desktop by conway · 2004-03-01 09:23 · Score: 2, Informative

First, the antivirus and firewall utils are unnecessary for linux (yet) : no widespread virii for linux, and firewall config utilities come with any decent end-user distro.
(Since firewall is built into OS, no need for a separate SW package).
Realplayer has a linux version as well, and there are plenty of good alternatives, like Xine or GMplayer, which support a LOT of codecs.
For Kazaa work-alike, there's a bunch of Gnutella clients around
So the only thing that remains is tax software..
Re:Apps for Linux desktop by BCW2 · 2004-03-01 09:29 · Score: 3, Informative

I have asked Intuit to port Turbo Tax to Linux every year for the last three. The first time they emailed me and said thy were looking into it. I have been ignored the last 2 times. I don't expect a response this year either. When someone come out with something similar for Linux, Intuit will never get another dime from me.
Quasar from Linux Canada is nice accounting software. It can be used as personal for 30 bucks or upgraded to business far cheaper than any Win product I've heard of. Not free but useful and modestly priced.

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Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
Re:Apps for Linux desktop by Pushnell · 2004-03-01 09:30 · Score: 2, Informative

You're absolutely right in that the "personal taxes" category for linux software is very vacant. However, while not quite geared to the home user, there are quite a few high-end financial app suites targeted at the real bean-counters. One I recently ran across is OSAS.

When you buy the software you get the source, and they do allow customizations & modifications to the source as well, just no releasing of the code to the public. [note: this is all to the best of my understanding. If someone out there knows more about this app, please correct me.]

As to your other concerns:
Kazaa: There are several re-implementations of the Kazaa client for linux. I've also heard that you can run the real thing under WINE.
Real Player: Click Here. Nuff said.
ICQ/AIM: Gaim.
Re:Apps for Linux desktop by ArsonSmith · 2004-03-01 09:31 · Score: 3, Informative

Tax software. Is there a good tax package for Linux, allowing those millions of accountants, small business owners and middle-class Joe's like you and me file their taxes?

www.turbotax.com online. I've been using it for years now.

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Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
Re:Apps for Linux desktop by Dark+Lord+Seth · 2004-03-01 09:40 · Score: 5, Funny

Out of free (of charge) software that is getting huge market share of desktop, what would the Linux equivalent of:

- Real Player

Ooo! I know!

#!/bin/sh # RealPlayerOne, Linux port ( Dark Lord Seth, 01-03-2004 ) dd if=/dev/random of=~/realplayer.tmp bs=1024 count=1024 dd if=/dev/random of=~/tmp/realplayer.core bs=1024 count=1024 dd if=/dev/random of=/var/real/buffer bs=1024 count=10240 echo "Buffering...\n\n" sleep 10 echo "Buffering...\n\n" sleep 10 echo "Buffering...\n\n" sleep 10 echo "Connection reset by peer." #rm ~/realplayer.tmp #rm ~/tmp/realplayer.core #rm /var/real/buffer

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Hate me!
Re:Apps for Linux desktop by cpeterso · 2004-03-01 09:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

I once made a $50 math mistake on my 1040 tax return. Even though the error was in THEIR favor, the IRS notified me. I was surprised and grateful, but this just demonstrates that since they are going to double-check my 1040, there was really NO reason for me to waste my time in the first place! >:-\

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cpeterso
Re:Apps for Linux desktop by FyRE666 · 2004-03-01 09:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'd disagree about the firewall config utils that are bundled with Linux distros. True, if you wish to attack the config file manually, you can literally set up any kind of firewalling rule set. However, this is not possible with any GUI/web tools I've looked at.

Even Firewall distros like smoothwall lack features I'd expect in a corporate firewall. EG, (for Smoothwall) the capability to block outgoing ports - blocking outgoing port 25 for anything other than the company mail relay(s) should be one of the first entries in a ruleset in these days of spam-relaying malware.

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Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Re:Apps for Linux desktop by LittleLebowskiUrbanA · 2004-03-01 11:05 · Score: 3, Interesting

Apparently the person who modded you up didn't check on what you said or just doesn't run Linux.

Ever heard of Firestarter? That's one GUI firewall I can think off the top of my head. Let's see here, how about fwall?

As far as your corporate firewall question, you might check into PF and OpenBSD OpenBSD As far as Smoothwall did you try the corporate version or just a free download? Googling, lookg what I found as far as your remark about outgoing ports and Smoothwall.
Haven't seen such a blatantly uninformed post in a long while.

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This guy is way out there

Re:just maybe by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-01 09:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

Linux has changed a lot since 1997. You should give it another try. The only shortcoming is that proprietary vendors (Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia) don't offer software for Linux. I don't think waiting 5 years is going to change that.

Baby steps please! by BCW2 · 2004-03-01 09:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

A step at a time, first networks, then the desktop. The domination by Linux will not happen overnight. How long did it take M$ to get where it is? Look at where they are now, with all the mistakes(Win 3.0, 95, Me, Bob), that get repeated, over and over and ...... and they are still the biggest gorilla on the planet. Don't think the Linux world won't make a few, but we are (hopefully) smarter and have learned from the mistakes of others and won't repeat them.

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Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.

It's 2004... by TeaEarlGreyHot · 2004-03-01 09:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

Do you know where your Linux desktop is?

The headline to this story should read "what took so long?" I consider the fact that Linux HASN'T made a major entry into the enterprise OR consumer desktop to be a MAJOR failing. Linux should, by now, be on 15-20% of desktops. What's the problem? Consider:

-Hardware isn't a problem. Linux pretty much supports just as much hardware as Windows does. And, if you are a desktop vendor, it really isn't a problem to write your own drivers.
-Applications aren't a problem. Linux has perfectly functional word processors, spreadsheets, web browsers, instant messengers, and email/calendar/groupware. Plus, they're free!
-File exchange isn't a problem. Any major file format that Windows/Mac users read/write and be read/written in Linux.
-With the proliferation of sub-$500 computers, Windows and 3rd party software becomes a major portion of the price tag. Linux makes economic sense here.

And this has been the case for AT LEAST FOUR YEARS! I think by now we have to start asking hard questions about who's to blame for this. I can think of a few. I would start with the desktop environments, KDE and GNOME. They continue to present an environment that is far too complicated for the computer novice, and fail to cover up the weirdness of X. I would also blame the distributions, who could have, in turn, covered up the weirdness of KDE and GNOME. Application install/uninstall is still a nightmare for users who are skiddish of a command line. I should be able to download a program installer, open up a file browser and browse to where I put it, double click to do a graphical installation, and then find the program in an add/remove programs system contol, and click delete to get rid of it.

Finally, I blame the elitism of the Linux community, who continue to regard the OS as belonging to computing guru, and would much rather bring the user to Linux than Linux to the user. Making easy tasks easy does not "dumb down" Linux.

Sorry, mod me down if you want, but every so often I feel the need to rant about this. It's 2004, and there should be thousands of grandmas out there emailing and IMing on Linux. The fact that there aren't is a really sad thing.

Re:It's 2004... by Welsh+Dwarf · 2004-03-01 09:59 · Score: 5, Informative

Where have you been these last 2 years?
To refute your posts, I will use examples from Mandrake 9.2 (some say there is a lot better, but it's always worked for my computer illiterate friends).

KDE? weird? I, and none of the above mentioned friends, have any trouble or any quirks. A lot of my friends actually appreciate stuff like the audio cd device that allows you to rip like you'd copy, and if there were a few bugs in 3.1.4, try out 3.2, the formula spell checker is bliss, no slashdotter should be without!!!

Application install/uninstall. hummmm, what's so hard about going to configuration, uninstall-software, and typing in what your program does to find it and remove it? got an rpm? just double click, enter root password and your done. One point I will admit defeat on though is package maintainers refusal to put icons in the menus though, which is a general UI sin in this day and age.

As for the Linux community elitisme, I'll accept that alt.os.linux.slackware is no place to ask how to mount, but OTOH alt.os.linux.mandrake is fine for newbe's, and really helpfull in general. Otherwise there's the mandrake forums.

Just to get the facts streight

David

--
Ask 8 slackers a question, get 10 awnsers (a citation, but I can't remember from who)
Re:It's 2004... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-01 10:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

Most people don't buy quality products, period. They don't buy quality cars, quality clothes, quality groceries, etc. etc. etc.

Why? Mostly willful ignorance. I know a bunch of people who bought Dodge Neons late in the game despite the fact the Lemon Aid guide has been panning them for years. Guess what happened? The cars were always in the shop, I had to give a boost to another one, and another person resold their Neon pretty quickly. That's a BIG purchase.

Look in the grocery baskets at the grocery store. See what people are buying. It's mostly crap and not always cheaper crap.

Look at walmart. Can you find decent quality footwear there? Try putting on a pair of cheap shoes and you can see why so many people who shop there look so fat. Walking is painful. I bought a good pair of leather shoes years ago and had them resoled and quality inserts put in them. They've saved me money over the years and they are incredibly comfortable.

Why should anyone care who is using Linux? The Toyota Camry has one of the lowest driver death ratings per million of cars out there... but plenty of people buy the worst cars (Cavalier, Neon, and surprisingly, SUV's and cheap pickups! etc.)

I use Linux on two systems and my wife uses it on one system. I'm not even going to broach the topic with my parents. My brother has an iBook (I got a faster used Thinkpad and threw Linux on it and saved a lot and I don't have any weird screen problems with white dots like he and so many other iBook people have)

People don't buy based on quality or safety. When I bought a whitebox system from a local retailer my father looked cross and said... "Why didn't you buy a Dell?" and I said, "Why the hell would I?" Considering he knows nothing about computers but he watches a lot of tv, where do you suppose he got that idea? Maybe if IBM and Novell want to advertise Linux, that'll probably do the most good.

It's not the elitism of the "linux community" and how dare you lump everyone who uses Linux in the same label. That's like saying all blacks are the same in a community and all Pakistanis are the same. Geez. Try visiting forums.gentoo.org and you'll see how helpful people are on a daily basis even with the most basic and repeated questions.
Re:It's 2004... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-01 10:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

You certainly bring up some valid concerns or areas where Free Software can improve. However, you completely ignore the biggest reason more people are not using Linux. The Microsoft monopoly and people's adversion to change.

Microsoft is a convicted, largely unregulated monopoly. They use this power to force computer makers to put Windows on every system they ship. Then, when "grandma" or "Joe Average" buys the computer, they have no desire to replace what came on it with something else. This perpetuates the Micorsoft empire and will be VERY difficult for Linux to break.

I have moved my family to Linux. They all love KDE, from my non-tech wife down to my 6 year-old. I have helped others make an informed choice as to what OS they want to use and few have any problems using Free Software on a day to day basis.

It's just that most people don't know they have a choice and Microsoft does the best it can to make sure they don't find out.
Re:It's 2004... by 110010001000 · 2004-03-01 10:37 · Score: 2, Funny

-Hardware isn't a problem.
hee hee.
-Applications aren't a problem.
HAHA.
-File exchange isn't a problem. Any major file format that Windows/Mac users read/write and be read/written in Linux.
Oh my. Good one.
-With the proliferation of sub-$500 computers, Windows and 3rd party software becomes a major portion of the price tag. Linux makes economic sense here.
Yes! I wonder why everyone doesn't use it given all the advantages you stated above.

Could it be because you are caught in a reality distortion field?
Re:It's 2004... by TeaEarlGreyHot · 2004-03-01 10:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

Why should you care what other people do with their computers? When Microsoft rolls DRM into the OS, and marries the Windows to the BIOS, and congress decrees that all non-DRM-compliant computers are illegal "circumvention devices," then you will care very much that Linux failed to create a popular, open platform to prevent this from happening, even though the Linux development community was INCHES away from making it possible. I have no problem with closed source software, but platforms and standards should remain open. Open standards are what made the Internet possible. They are what made the PC boom possible. And, if you care about open platforms and standards, then you should care about how many people use Linux.

In Capitalism, man exploits man...[*] by Thud457 · 2004-03-01 09:33 · Score: 2, Funny

"Cisco execs reduced their salaries to $1 to same(sic)"

So a handful of Cisco execs makes the same as 10,000 productive employees?!!! That'll show those Commie Bastards that Capitalism Works!(tm)

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Re:In Capitalism, man exploits man...[*] by coupland · 2004-03-01 11:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

I dislike the policy, but its still a hell of a lot better than what IBM does. They like to increase the salaries of their management, fire their employees and hire Indians to do the work cheaper.

Out of curiosity, how far does your "scope of worthiness" extend? Obviously you think Indians don't deserve jobs even if they can do the work cheaper, but what if those jobs moved to Canada? Would IBM still be evil? What if they only jumped state? Or maybe stayed in-state but moved to a different urban centre? Or just out to the suburbs where real estate is cheaper? Welcome to capitalism man, it's called competition. If you can't compete you're removed from the market.
Re:In Capitalism, man exploits man...[*] by Vancorps · 2004-03-01 12:08 · Score: 2, Informative

These Principles Watson was very specific about how the company should behave.
Re:In Capitalism, man exploits man...[*] by Vancorps · 2004-03-01 12:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't deem Indians any less worthy of having a job than my father who works at IBM. The problem is that IBM was founded on basis to promote employee pridee. It was a company that you could rely on. It wasn't just about money, IBM has never had a problem making money. Look back five years ago before IBM really started shifting its workforce around. India was just an example, but the problem extends to moving it to Canada as well. IBM is huge, entire cities are built around its employees so when IBM moves the entire city has to move. So yes, to answer your question IBM would be evil. As for jumping state, IBM has done that several times and in the end it only costs them more money.
Capitalism does not have to be as cold as you make it out to be, there are plenty of ways to make a shit load of money without instilling fear in your employees. (Note Indians will soon be in the same boat when other cheaper nations come around).

Home also... by moberry · 2004-03-01 09:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

Employees of these company's would also be prone to use linux at there own homes, because they use it at work. This is like fresh university students using unix at the work place, because they used it in college.

It's called... by Azureflare · 2004-03-01 11:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

Inertia. Also, in terms of learning, people are familiar with windows, and it's what has always been around. It takes a lot of effort to change that.

I think the major failure is getting the word out to people that linux is just like windows in terms of usability with environments like KDE and Gnome; now we just need the application and driver vendors supporting linux like they support windows.

It's all in the marketing man. Marketing is key. It has nothing to do with this supposed "elitism" you speak of. Elitism is a thing of the 90s. I don't see vendors like Mandrake, Xandros, Lin---s, etc. being "elitist" towards their users.

We need someone with a lot of money, and we need to get the word out in as many places as possible.

Aye, there's the rub! We need money to advertise, and yet, money is only made once the operating system is quite popular (i.e. on support, etc.). So, someone is going to have to invest in it; and with the recent bursting of the bubble, investment has gone wayyy down, RIGHT when linux became really viable on the desktop!

Just great, eh? Oh well, I'm hopeful that with IBM's efforts and others, things will come around eventually.

It's ok man, and remember, market dominance isn't everything.

Re:Why Linux dominates fucked-up contries by BigBadBri · 2004-03-01 12:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

If that's true, then it's great news for OSS.

Here's why - most of the world is 'fucked up' by your definition.

In the majority of economies, those in power use that power to enrich themselves by any means at their disposal, whether by bribery or embezzlement.

I've struggled to see where OSS can fit into this model, but you have shown how corrupt elites can prosper from OSS while not adversely impacting the OSS movement.

All we need now is for Halliburton, EDS and the large consulting firms that play the part of the oligarchy in the West to catch on to this business model, and OSS will prosper worldwide.

There - you're not flamebait, but you've missed the key means by which OSS will gain a foothold in the 'developed' economies.

--
oh brave new world, that has such people in it!

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